Author Topic: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)  (Read 132315 times)

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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2015, 09:58:16 pm »
Ahha, Interesting. Thank you!  :) Glad you managed to get it open.

It didn't occur to me that the non-I link components would be underneath the Isolator footprints - Obvious when you think about it!  :palm: I wonder if the USB speed actually makes any difference.

You have a fairly easy option to convert yours into a -I if you want to then. Possibly worth it for the ground isolation benefit, not sure how much benefit in terms of noise performance, but they do mention it in the blurb. From the look of it the passives (eg. high voltage cap C95) are already in place.

On mine the U29 footprint is up at the front in the analogue section, near the shield. If you have something fitted I'd be grateful for a part number - if only to understand what it does!

Thanks again for the photos (if you could maybe post one of the analogue end of the board? :)). I'm keen to compare them in detail and see if I can see any improvements that can be retrofitted to the Rev1.2 board.
Chris

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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2015, 10:16:08 pm »
Ah, I see the confusion - some major renumbering, why did they use 'U' numbers for inductors too?  :palm:

Photo with MY U29 highlighted attached.
Chris

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Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2015, 10:53:16 pm »
Photo with MY U29 highlighted attached.

Thanks!  I just managed to find where U29 was on your board.  I was looking all over, in the wrong places.

On my board, that whole circuit has vaporized.  R80 and 81 are gone, and R77 and R78, along with caps C69, C70, C77, and C78.  Oh, and R73 and R75 too.  Sorry about the rotation, but I was trying to landscape it, and get a good perspective.  I'm assuming you can rotate it for a better side-by-side comparison.

What may not be immediately obvious is that they did a really sloppy job of aligning the shielding can (just visible at the bottom).  It also doesn't fit anywhere near flush with the board, either.  :(
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2015, 11:07:12 pm »
It's easier to see the sloppy shield mounting on this full-board shot, along with the heavy copper ground strapping (that extends around to the rear shielding can as well).

[And, as shown above in Reply 24, U29 on my board is an HC595 serial-in-parallel out shifter, located upper-right here.]
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 11:09:11 pm by Mark_O »
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2015, 11:34:10 pm »
I wonder if the USB speed actually makes any difference.

In a practical sense, no.  Even with USB1, it could forward ~150 captures/sec.  Which is faster than they'd be updated on screen.  In a theoretical sense, yes.  With USB2, up to 3,000 captures/sec could be uploaded to the PC, which could be useful if they were merged into a variable persistence display, for example.

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On mine the U29 footprint is up at the front in the analogue section, near the shield. If you have something fitted I'd be grateful for a part number - if only to understand what it does!  ...  I'm keen to compare them in detail and see if I can see any improvements that can be retrofitted to the Rev1.2 board.

It looks like they did a fair bit of redesign there, and revised the layout quite significantly.  And no trace cuts now (that I noticed), for example.  I think they did swap in a LOT heftier v-reg for U25, compared to what I recall on your board.

If there's anything else you'd like to see closeups of, let me know before I button it back up again.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2015, 10:35:13 am »
Nice clear photos, thanks very much  :)  Sorry,your last posts came in after bed time, yes I think that gives me everything I need so you're safe to button it up again.

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It looks like they did a fair bit of redesign there, and revised the layout quite significantly.  And no trace cuts now (that I noticed), for example.  I think they did swap in a LOT heftier v-reg for U25, compared to what I recall on your board.

It looks like a nice tidy clean-up pass. If they've been doing such active work on the board in the past year it looks as if they see some ongoing life in it (hopefully s/w too, although it seems clean now). I see they've kept the RS232 port footprints too :-\

Losing (my) U29 has tidied up the front end nicely so it possibly has lower crosstalk. I wonder what it was... My only thought is that it might have been an analog mux for an abandoned single channel 200MSps experiment. As you say, no trace cuts - the control tracks across the board have been deleted.

Your U29 is new, I must look at what that does. It must be s/w transparent with mine (but maybe different firmware  - to free up some GPIOs?).

Interesting regulator change (LM337 -ve?), it looks as if they did have issues with the equivalent reg on mine because there is rework around it - I must look closer look at noise / temp to see if it is worth a (slightly messy) retrofit.

It's a shame about the twisted shield, I don't think the PCB slot sizes are big enough to twist that far so it looks as if they may have needed to remove the tab at that end (misplaced hole?) and replace it with the copper strap. It hopefully doesn't have any performance impact anyway. Maybe they've just bent the tab up, resulting in the poorer board spacing, might be possible to rectify (after warranty?)

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In a practical sense, no.  Even with USB1, it could forward ~150 captures/sec.  Which is faster than they'd be updated on screen.  In a theoretical sense, yes.  With USB2, up to 3,000 captures/sec could be uploaded to the PC, which could be useful if they were merged into a variable persistence display, for example.

Ah, good point, I wonder if it enumerates as USB1 or USB2? It's hopefully possible to tell.

I really appreciate your taking the time to do this Mark, I owe you one  :)

EDIT: Ah, got it now! My U29 was the mux to select the Video trigger source (obvious when I saw the track difference on yours  :)). hence the jumper on only one side of the footprint, I must have partially coupled the channels when I tried to jumper the other side. The s/w pops up a message saying Video trigger only supported on Channel 1 when you try to set it to Chan 2. It must have compromised performance too much in other areas - a fair trade-off. Glad I understand it now anyway. :)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 01:25:34 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2015, 02:42:10 pm »
Nice clear photos, thanks very much  :) 

You're welcome.  They're not tack sharp, since I did them handheld with available light.  But they came out pretty decent.

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If they've been doing such active work on the board in the past year it looks as if they see some ongoing life in it (hopefully s/w too, although it seems clean now). I see they've kept the RS232 port footprints too :-\

I agree about the ongoing product life.  From the S/N difference, they may have sold ~10k units between yours and mine, and expect to continue to do more.  No way to really know about the RS232, but they may have designed that in as an alternate to USB, for some countries where RS232 is still more prevalent (old laptops).

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Interesting regulator change (LM337 -ve?),

Yep.

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It's a shame about the twisted shield, I don't think the PCB slot sizes are big enough to twist that far so it looks as if they may have needed to remove the tab at that end (misplaced hole?) and replace it with the copper strap.

I'm less concerned with the twisting, and more with the fact that in sections, there's more than a 2mm gap away from the PCB.  But looking at it again more closely, I now see that the can itself is basically defective.  I.e., it's not just that it isn't fully seated on the board, with the tabs not inserted all the way (though that is true on the top... the back is perfect).  But the bent part of the metal lip on the side away from the BNCs is longer/taller on the right than it is on the left!  So SOME gap was going to be inevitable.

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Ah, good point, I wonder if it enumerates as USB1 or USB2? It's hopefully possible to tell.

I am sure it enumerates as USB2 (HighSpeed).  It's a simple voltage indication on the USB lines, and there's no reason at all for it not to.

Quote
I really appreciate your taking the time to do this Mark, I owe you one  :)

No problem at all, Chris.  Nice to have multiple eyes on an analysis.  I'm really glad you did all the heavy-lifting on this one.
 

Offline LogicalDave

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2015, 12:08:20 am »
A quick thank you for the teardown and review!  I bought two of the Owon VDS1022 scopes (non-isolated version); I removed the 8x 0R resistors and installed the two isolation chips (ADUM3160BRWZ, DCP020505U) and my scopes are now isolated so I'm not risking my computers each time I use them.  I really like the VDS1022 scopes; the software is great as is the portability and desk footprint; I rarely use my bench scopes anymore unless I need to look at signals faster than 25MHz.  Having them isolated now is a nice plus.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2015, 06:04:17 pm »
Ah, I wondered if anyone had actually done that (there was always just a chance that there might have been something hidden somewhere to stop it). Thanks for reporting back!  :)

I guess that answers our USB1.1 vs USB2 data transfer speed question, Mark.
Chris

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2015, 08:46:40 pm »
I just ordered the Owon 3104  4-channel 100MHz unit - will report when it turns up.
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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2015, 09:03:20 pm »
We need an emoticon for 'Rubs hands in anticipation'. Looking forward to the teardown  ;D
Chris

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Online blueskull

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2015, 09:13:31 pm »
I just ordered the Owon 3104  4-channel 100MHz unit - will report when it turns up.

Well, I it does not look too good inside, but the performance justifies its money.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2015, 09:24:50 pm »
2 minute teardown:

Main PCB, ARM and FPGA.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2015, 09:26:37 pm »
Here is where my rage comes from. They managed to fit 2 large LMCC caps there to fulfill isolation requirements, but the PCB gap??? Kidding me?
 

Online blueskull

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2015, 09:27:46 pm »
They definitely know how to build power supplies and clock circuits, thumbs up on this part.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2015, 09:28:33 pm »
Sometimes engineering fails are beneficial, such as this warranty sticker >:D.

EOF
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2015, 10:01:54 pm »
Thanks for the quick teardown. :)

I wouldn't say it looks bad inside by any means, a neat layout. I do see what you mean about the clearance on the LAN isolation though - the clearances on the 1022 USB isolation are rather better implemented. There was good attention to proper clock routing and termination there too.

The self defeating warranty label is certainly to your benefit  ;D There was nothing sealing the 1022, less IP to protect I guess.
Chris

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Online blueskull

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2015, 10:10:10 pm »
By saying bad I meant uncleaned solder flux and crappy cheap plastic as well as poorly extruded aluminum case. The PCB layout is generally good. This thing consumes tons of power and gets hot quickly (and drains battery quickly).

The frontend is a little noisier than a desktop SDS7102, but giving it has to be powered from tight USB power budget, I will give it a go.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2015, 10:33:08 pm »
Maybe a little hard on your countrymen, yes the PCB could be better cleaned though. At least the joints are nice and shiny.

I'm not surprised it heats up, they're squeezing a lot of performance into the same small case. I've noticed that noise level varies with length of USB lead on the 1022 (admittedly a cheap ebay 3m one so actually I should be surprised that it works at all with the voltage drop! :palm:). I may experiment with a separate isolated DC supply at some stage, that certainly made a difference on the low speed 16bit Picoscope that I use for audio measurements (that's a very different noise floor requirement of course).
Chris

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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2015, 11:08:11 pm »
If you are asking about the ones with the VDS1022, then yes it came with two P6060 60MHz switchable x10/x1 probes. You can find pictures on ebay if you search for P6060, but these came in black rather than grey. They seem to be perfectly adequate for the job and are nicely insulated at the BNC end (to match the isolation).

The software allows you to select x1, x10, x100 and x1000 probe attenuation factors.  :)
Chris

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Online blueskull

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2015, 11:09:55 pm »
i read the spec on the website, and is curious about the probes. is it inclusive in purchase when you bought it? and according to the website, it has 1000x feature?
http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175

if it is not too much trouble, could you post pics of the probe too (tyvm)

It comes with 2 switchable 1:1/10:1 100MHz 300V CAT I/II probes.
The probes look like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/220375454020?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82, but the OWON ones come with plastic covered BNC, not bare metal.
I don't have OWON probes with me right now, I randomly grabbed an Agilent probe with me, so the one I'm now using is not its bundled probe.
 

Offline Gyro

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Chris

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2015, 11:41:24 pm »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2015, 10:45:19 am »
Haha, yes I noticed that - chalk one up for ground isolation!  ;D

Edit: I just captured and added the relevant image for future generations, it is a bit of a classic.  :)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 10:57:17 am by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2015, 12:23:09 pm »
I guess that answers our USB1.1 vs USB2 data transfer speed question, Mark.

Yep.

I also noticed that there is currently an eBay Seller with 5 of these units (VDS1022, non I) on sale, for just $84 (shipped):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121825404806

These normally run $110-120.
 


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