Author Topic: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)  (Read 234929 times)

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Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2016, 06:49:04 pm »
Hi Mark. Ah, the dreaded 4am, never a good time (whichever end of the day it's tacked onto) :(

I agree, it's frustrating when all the information is there on a plate (not forgetting your significant contribution too) but not made use of.

Good point on the long duration streaming, Owon really could to do it with much better USB resilience given the device's greater intelligence and buffering capability compared to the Hantek. Thankfully not an issue for general use.

Glad you're ok anyway.  :)

Chris


EDIT: @mecanico, I think the last paragraph of Mark's last reply addressed your question very clearly.
P.S. I've just seen the additional information on your mechanical background in your Beginners thread, so maybe it would be helpful to re-read the thread a couple of times while googling a few terms if you don't understand them. I understand that you are on a learning curve (aren't we all!).
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 07:14:22 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline mecanico

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2016, 07:13:37 pm »
Yes, I understood that Makr has the opinion that the owon is better, however I don't know what do you mean by streaming, is that the amount of data that is shown in the screen? SHouldn't that be limited by the MHz?  Btw, what is the isolation all about? I read something about burning up the PC?

Greetings
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2016, 08:01:19 pm »
We seem to be doing a lot of talking between this and your Beginners thread  :D

Long duration streaming is where you want to collect a lot of data (usually many Mbytes) over a longer period of time (a bit like a data-logger). It streams the data to a large data buffer or file on the PC. The Hantek effectively has to do this all the time because it has no internal memory and no intelligence - this is also the reason that people have problems with it when working at higher speeds, it is very dependent on being able to get the data through the USB interface fast enough, it is left to the PC S/W too to decide when a trigger event has happened. In comparison, the Owon has intelligence and internal triggering which means that it only has to send the small amount of data to actually display on the screen, meaning that it can easily work with USB1.1 (also a reason that it is available with USB isolation - it is really difficult to isolate USB2). Unfortunately is also means that Owon have been 'lazy' in not implementing streaming, it can display at low timebases (and of course trigger and capture screenshots) but it doesn't have a streaming to PC mode for large amounts of data over long durations.

P.S. I have answered you USB isolation question in your Beginners thread.
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2016, 11:27:42 pm »
Good point on the long duration streaming, Owon really could to do it with much better USB resilience given the device's greater intelligence and buffering capability compared to the Hantek.

The Owon is vastly better as a scope than the Hantek.  However it's not nearly as good when it comes to the API, if you need to roll your own functionality.  Beyond being able to stream, the Hantek's interface is very direct, and has even been reverse-engineered so you could "talk" to it over USB on any platform (Linux, Mac, Android, etc.), from just about any device.

The Owon is more limited, and its driver for Windows doesn't actually send either a stream OR a buffer of data to your App.  Instead, it puts it in a file(!), and you have to go retrieve it from there.  Even on their higher-end models with 5MSa/channel.  There were some other gotchas I discussed with their engineers last year, but I'd have to dig up my notes.

However, none of that matters at all, as long as you're running their App (which I consider to be quite good), and have a Windows-based platform to run it on.


For anyone just getting started with electronics exploration, I think there's enough to be learned without constantly having to ask yourself why your instrument is doing this or that strange thing.  And can't do some things at all.  It just adds another obstacle to the learning process.
 

Offline mecanico

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2016, 07:06:08 pm »
Great answers! Thank you very much!
Owon it will be!
Greetins
 

Offline znww5

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2016, 04:40:05 pm »
Just a quick note to say thanks very much for this thread, together with the photos and the discussion it has given me all the info I needed to leave the 'analogue era'!

David

 :-+
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2016, 06:37:43 pm »
Welcome to the forum David.

Always nice to know that these threads help people even after the discussion has died down. Let us know how you get on.  :-+
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2016, 07:50:27 am »
Hey! New to the site and fairly new to the hobby as well. Been messing with arduinos for about 6 months or so. Thanks for posting all this info, after opening mine up and doing some googling i found this thread.

I just received this scope from eBay. I decided to open it and have a look at the internals before using it. Found some issues that got missed by QC, maybe they don't confirm the component placements. Anyway, R55,56,58,59 moved around when they were soldered. It also appears that R90 and R103 may be missing from the bottom, unless these have been omitted for a reason. Also the shield around the inputs doesnt go all the way to the board, there is about a 2mm gap, not sure if that matters or not. The ones in the PCB pics here show them in place though. I'll try to post some pictures if i can.

I'm thinking ill probably just return it but in the off chance i decide its better to just attempt to repair it can someone post a hi-res pic of each of those locations? Unfortunately the ones already posted here aren't clear enough to see the resistor values.

How do i post pictures?

EDIT: I did try it out but after opening and checking it. It seemed to work fine but I was concerned about the "missing" and "moved around" resistors. I have since learned that Gyro installed the resistors I had thought were missing and on closer inspection the moved resistors appear to be a factory mod.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 01:18:46 pm by KNO3- »
 

Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #58 on: February 08, 2016, 07:56:40 am »
Here's some pictures, I realized the size of the pictures was the reason they wouldn't post.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #59 on: February 08, 2016, 10:45:15 am »
Anyway, R55,56,58,59 moved around when they were soldered.

My "quess" is that this is designed modification if you look more carefully this circuit and what have changed.
I drive a LEC (low el. consumption) BEV car. Smoke exhaust pipes - go to museum. In Finland quite all electric power is made using nuclear, wind, solar and water.

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Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2016, 10:56:10 am »

Quote

My "quess" is that this is designed modification if you look more carefully this circuit and what have changed.

You think so? The ones missing on the back that would make sense but these...I'm not so sure. The resistor sticking out of the side of R59 doesnt even appear to be attached to anything. There is no pad, unless they have scratched out a new pad underneath there.
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2016, 10:57:06 am »
Hi,

You didn't think it was worth testing it before opening it up? That sort of thing can give you problems with the seller if you disturb tamper seals etc.

From what I can see:

- The resistors around R55-R59 look like deliberate board mods with additional resistors added between nodes and ground plane.

- R90 and R103 are used to connect the USB connector ground to the main ground plane. You have purchased the 1022I USB isolation version so these resistors wouldn't be fitted (you shouldn't expect every footprint on a PCB to be populated on every option).

- The small gap under the screening can shouldn't have any significant effect, I think Mark_O noticed the same on his unit, I can't remember the reason now.

It would be silly to return it or start attacking it with a soldering iron until you've actually tested it to see if it works. You're also going to run into problems with the seller if you tell him you want to return it because you opened it up!  :palm:  Put it back together, install it and see if it works - please try doing that and report back.

P.S. There is a downside of the "Don't turn it on, take it apart" mentality on this forum when adopted by the inexperienced, sorry.

EDIT: Yes I suspect that the resistor to the side of R59 is soldered to a bare area on the groundplane.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 11:00:13 am by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 
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Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2016, 11:35:40 am »
Hi,

You didn't think it was worth testing it before opening it up? That sort of thing can give you problems with the seller if you disturb tamper seals etc.

Of course I tried it and there are no tamper seals. But just because it seems to work doesn't necessarily mean it's working properly or going to keep working as it is. Or maybe some setting i try in the future doesn't work. Although since this is related to the USB connection that's probably unlikely.

Quote
- R90 and R103 are used to connect the USB connector ground to the main ground plane. You have purchased the 1022I USB isolation version so these resistors wouldn't be fitted (you shouldn't expect every footprint on a PCB to be populated on every option).

I didn't expect the board to be fully populated, there are lots of other areas not populated. The only reason I was curious about these two resistors is the pictures you originally posted show these two in place and it is the 1022I model if I'm not mistaken. All the iso chips are populated and I believe you confirmed it was the 1022I model in your post.
 
Quote

P.S. There is a downside of the "Don't turn it on, take it apart" mentality on this forum when adopted by the inexperienced, sorry.

EDIT: Yes I suspect that the resistor to the side of R59 is soldered to a bare area on the groundplane.

I have ordered Chinese electronics that have had loose/extra parts and balls of solder rolling around inside. Lots of poor soldering and cold joints as well. There is also a ton of counterfeit product floating around. Then there's real product that's supposed to be trashed because it failed QC but ends up going out the back door of the factory. Then someone does a shoty repair or just sells it and you end up with a sub par product. I just wanted to make sure everything looked ok and it looked like a legitimate board before plugging the thing into my USB port.

Thanks for your reply though, on closer inspection it does appear its intentional. Hopefully it was the Owon factory that did the mod. I'll do some tests and post back if I have any issues.
 

Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2016, 12:04:31 pm »
This is the 1kHz wave form from the signal output on the scope. Looks pretty good to me, not a whole lot of noise. Maybe I was worrying about nothing.
 

Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2016, 12:28:33 pm »
Here's line voltage AC in the house. Everything seems to be fine with this unit.  :phew: I'm also very impressed with the software UI, it's better than I expected. The measurement tools are pretty helpful and quite easy to use. Seems like the software has quite a few useful features. So far I haven't found anything really annoying to use.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:31:11 pm by KNO3- »
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2016, 12:32:22 pm »
Quote
Of course I tried it and there are no tamper seals. But just because it seems to work doesn't necessarily mean it's working properly or going to keep working as it is. Or maybe some setting i try in the future doesn't work. Although since this is related to the USB connection that's probably unlikely.

Ah, ok, you did test it, good. From your initial post it really didn't read that way, especially when you were talking about 'just returning it or trying to repair it'.

Quote
I didn't expect the board to be fully populated, there are lots of other areas not populated. The only reason I was curious about these two resistors is the pictures you originally posted show these two in place and it is the 1022I model if I'm not mistaken. All the iso chips are populated and I believe you confirmed it was the 1022I model in your post.

My mistake - it was actually me who added those resistors (and forgot). I like to provide a discharge path, even on Isolated equipment, if only to avoid the risk of static buildup. I used 2 x 10M resistors if I remember correctly. Purely a personal choice though.

Quote
I have ordered Chinese electronics that have had loose/extra parts and balls of solder rolling around inside. Lots of poor soldering and cold joints as well. There is also a ton of counterfeit product floating around. Then there's real product that's supposed to be trashed because it failed QC but ends up going out the back door of the factory. Then someone does a shoty repair or just sells it and you end up with a sub par product. I just wanted to make sure everything looked ok and it looked like a legitimate board before plugging the thing into my USB port.

I'm glad to say that no one appears to have counterfeited the Owon, there probably isn't enough margin in it. They are pretty keenly priced given the BOM cost. I though you said you had tested it before taking it apart, that would imply plugging it into your USB port.  ;)  I understand your motivation though.

Quote
Thanks for your reply though, on closer inspection it does appear its intentional. Hopefully it was the Owon factory that did the mod. I'll do some tests and post back if I have any issues.

You're welcome, I hope I haven't put you off posting here, we're generally a friendly bunch (even me  :D). Yes that would be a factory mod. Owon do seem to be pretty skilled (or at least cunning) in their board mods. On my earlier rev board they managed to correct a swap in the USB signals by diagonally crossing two 0603 resistors on adjacent pads - something that would be taxing one-off, let alone on a production line!

P.S. I've just seen your trace captures, yes that looks nice, no cause for concern there. I think you'll be happy with it. If you're still worried about noise performance then you could try replicating some of the tests that I carried out for rf-loop on page 1. Hopefully yours, being a later rev board, might be quieter still.

...and yes, the UI is surprisingly good (especially for Owon, who've taken some flack previously). You might want to look at the shortcuts I identified too.





« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:34:27 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2016, 12:42:38 pm »
I've just looked closer at your Line-voltage trace (276V P-P... ok 100Vrms). Please be very careful with that sort of measurement, I know it's USB isolated, but that doesn't mean that you won't get a very nasty belt of the case if you get the Live and Neutral swapped!  :scared:

Be aware also that the probes are low cost (but reasonably good quality) Chinese ones. They're not designed (Edit:or approved) for use on high energy circuits - domestic mains counts in this context.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:58:12 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2016, 01:08:02 pm »

Quote
Ah, ok, you did test it, good. From your initial post it really didn't read that way, especially when you were talking about 'just returning it or trying to repair it'.

I though you said you had tested it before taking it apart, that would imply plugging it into your USB port.  ;)  I understand your motivation though.

I did take it apart before testing it and besides those resistors everything looked OK. At that point, I didn't think what I found was hazardous to my usb port, so I plugged it in and gave it a try. It did seem to work fine but I wasn't sure about those mods so that's why I posted.

Quote
You're welcome, I hope I haven't put you off posting here, we're generally a friendly bunch (even me  :D).

Not at all, I appreciate the help and I'm happy to not have to bother with a return. It's my fault anyway, it wasn't a great post. The original post was better but I think that was the fourth time I had retyped it out. Previous attempts to submit it didn't work because my picture files were too large. Lost the post three times before i figured it out  |O Sigh, anyway...I've been browsing these forums for awhile now as a guest, tons of useful information. Hadn't had a need to post anything yet because almost every question I had came up in a search.
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2016, 01:27:42 pm »
Quote
Previous attempts to submit it didn't work because my picture files were too large. Lost the post three times before i figured it out  |O

Been there, done that!  :)
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2016, 01:51:15 pm »
I've just looked closer at your Line-voltage trace (276V P-P... ok 100Vrms). Please be very careful with that sort of measurement, I know it's USB isolated, but that doesn't mean that you won't get a very nasty belt of the case if you get the Live and Neutral swapped!  :scared:

Be aware also that the probes are low cost (but reasonably good quality) Chinese ones. They're not designed (Edit:or approved) for use on high energy circuits - domestic mains counts in this context.

 :D Thanks for the concern. The laptop has an un-grounded cord, just as an extra precaution I pulled the AC charger anyway so it was on battery. My test leads are marked 600VDC, which i would never trust them for...but 100VAC rms i figured they'd be fine. I considered the case but neither the case, nor myself, nor anything within my reach is grounded. I also made 100% sure that the 10x prob was actually 10x. I double checked the specs on the Owon and measuring 276p-p is well within the range so long as you use the 10x. I also fused the test lead connection with a 0.5A fuse just incase something went wrong inside the Owon.

I suppose it was slightly risky but you'll notice the wave form is 100vac rms and 50Hz....kind of an odd ball utility so i couldn't resist taking a look at it.  ;)

I did say in my first post I'm a newb but to put your mind at ease I'm a certified electrician who specializes in building controls and automation. I've taken a few classes in electronics, used scopes, etc. However it's been about 6 years since I've been to school. And as far as electronics goes it was basic stuff and its been a long time. Not a whole lot of digital stuff either.

I'm always installing all these PLCs and other various controllers, networks, etc. and I've always wanted some in depth knowledge of how the electronics actually work. I've finally found the time to get into it and so far I'm really loving it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 01:53:29 pm by KNO3- »
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2016, 02:10:22 pm »
That's good, glad to know that you know your way around mains.  :-+

Always worth flagging anyway just in case someone really new is reading later.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline znww5

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #71 on: February 12, 2016, 12:21:12 pm »
Received my 1022(non I) this morning - cost including p&p was just under £56 from China via 'the bay' and took about a fortnight to get here.

So far I have:

1.     De-fluxed the PCB,
2.     Re-soldered the front-end screening to be flush with the deck
3.     Added the USB isolation chip

I'm still waiting for the PSU isolation chip to arrive, had to order it from Germany in the end as UK prices were rather silly or had huge p&p charges!


I started looking at scopes when my 30+ year old Hitachi began falling sick, so I needed another scope to help fix it and the 1022 was the obvious choice. I took a look at the various digital scopes and their software and was on the point of buying the Hantek when I found this forum. Having read this thread it was obvious that the 1022 was a no-brainer.

Given the price, the 1022 has vastly more functionality than the £48 LCD kits you can find and is ideal for the mainly LF/MF RF analogue stuff which I deal with - I particularly like the variable persistence facility. In all probability I will end up using this more than the old CRT scope, with most of the processing being done on-board, the host PC requirements are quite light - so you could just take the 1022, probes and CD to use with somebody elses PC.  It is also refreshing not having to wait 15 or 20 minutes for the scope to stabilse, or nurse a hernia heaving a CRT scope around !

The only thing I would like is a short-cut to the Self-Cal function, I can't seem to find that. Other than that, very pleased with what is a very useable scope for a laughably small amount of money.

Thanks again to all who contributed to this thread, it was invaluable.

David




« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 02:51:53 pm by znww5 »
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2016, 08:50:20 am »
Well that was pretty good going for your first morning of ownership!  :-+

Interesting that you're going straight for USB isolation, mind you non-isolated for <£56 is a bit of a no-brainer. It will probably be helpful for others with their buying decisions if you can document your conversion cost... and maybe parts suppliers.

I'll look for a self-cal shortcut, I haven't found one yet.

Check the Owon site too to make sure you've got the latest version of the S/W.

http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175

Glad we've been some help anyway.  :)

Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline plazma

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2016, 01:38:20 pm »
The price difference between the VDS1022 and isolated VDS1022I is only 17£. Is it not better to buy the isolated version than modifying the non isolated?
 

Offline znww5

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #74 on: February 14, 2016, 10:24:01 pm »
Re: the isolating components, I couldn't agree more - the extra £17 for the isolated version  is well worth it - however being a PC scope newbie, light only dawned after I had ordered the non-isolated unit.

By the time I have finished, my modified unit will have cost pretty much the same as the (I) version - still its only a bit of soldering!

As for parts, the USB data isolator was easy - next day delivery for £5.71 from radio spares - RS stock code 7969041

The tricky component was the power supply isolator (DCP020505U); it was either a very silly price or had the wrong pin configuration, or occasionally both. In the end I sourced one from a supplier in Germany via 'the bay'. Delivered cost is 12.90 Euros, ie around £10, item number  311151940664. There were a couple still available a few minutes ago when I checked, mine is due in a couple of days.

So as you can see, I 'saved' the princely sum of £1.29 . . . Barbados, here I come  :)

Thanks for the heads-up regarding the software Gyro, worth mentioning, but as it happened I had taken a look at the software for the two contenders, so it was sitting here on the PC before the 1022 even left China - how sad is that!

The only thing I would add for the benefit of anyone considering the upgrade (and I quite possibly missed this when reading the thread) is to mention that 6 of the 8 zero ohm resistors which need to be removed  live on the topside of the board - the other 2 can be found on the under side. Obvious when you know, but it had me scratching my head for a couple of minutes.  :palm:

David






 


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