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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Gyro on August 24, 2015, 12:34:32 pm

Title: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 24, 2015, 12:34:32 pm
As this just came up in another post, and I can't find any other pictures on the web (Plenty of the Hantek 6022be) I though it was about time to do a teardown of my Owon VDS1022I. Naturally there will be quite a few comparisons with the similarly targeted Hantek.

A teardown of the Hantek can be found in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-6022be-20mhz-usb-dso/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-6022be-20mhz-usb-dso/)

I realize that this won't be of much interest to the Rigol DS1054Z crowd, but when a bunch of these came up cheap a couple of years ago on ebay uk I thought it was worth a go. I already have a Picoscope ADC216 16bit for audio use, a Tek475A 250MHz Analogue for high frequency stuff and a decent logic analyzer for long trace digital, so I couldn't justify yet another bench-top, I just needed a 'fill in' for the middle. I also reasoned that the first things to fail on a Chinese bench scope would be SMPS, front panel controls and fan so getting something with non of these would be a bonus!

Anyway, on with the teardown. The VDS1022I is a dual channel 100Msps (per channel) 25MHz. This seems a bit more realistic sampling speed than the 20MHz 48Msps Hantek. The 'I' suffix indicates USB Isolation - you can float the scope ( the front panel BNCs are 'touchproof' style too). There's also a non-isolated version. Other features include more versatile triggering (Edge, variable Slope and Pulse, TV and with variable hold-off - the Hantek only has edge) Alternate triggering is also included (the ability to trigger on two unrelated signals at the same time) and Variable persistence too. There is also a dedicated Trigger connector which can be used as Trigger In, Trigger Out, and Pass/Fail out, using internally set rules.

The one real downside, spec-wise of the Owon is it's 5k samples per channel memory depth, versus a claimed 1M for the Hantek, not an issue for me, but might be for others. The Owon also uses (only needs) USB 1.1 vs the Hantek's USB2. Both of these are side effects of the significant internal architectural difference.

It is in the architecture that I think the Owon wins. Where the Hantek just uses an EzUSB micro for interfacing the ADC to USB, the Owon includes a Silicon Labs SiM3U156 32 bit ARM Cortex-M3 CPU together with a Xilinx Spartan-3 FPGA. There's clearly a lot more happening on-board than in the Hantek. Presumably the triggering is all handled on board (especially as there is a Trigger-out), together with data compression needed to pipe the data via USB1.1 at decent refresh rate. It also results in very low PC overhead with minimal impact on running other applications even on a low-end PC. The 5k memory depth is clearly a less desirable side effect. I'm not sure where the Hantek's triggering is handled, as it's edge only it could either be on-board or in the PC software.

The USB 1.1 interface also allows the USB isolation, which is performed by an ADUM3160. USB power is isolated by a TI DCP020505 2W isolated DC-DC converter. This has the lower isolation voltage of the two devices at 1kV. PCB clearances are very good. There are also un-populated footprints for a non isolated RS-232 interface. Some of the higher end models have LAN too, but there are no footprints on the board for this.

On the Analogue side, the A/D is an AD9288 dual in its 100Msps variant. ADC drive is via a pair of LMH6551 370MHz Differential op-amps and at least part of the gain switching is accomplished by a pair of AD603 90MHz pin selectable variable gain amplifiers, according to the datasheet these are capable of a 42dB gain range at 30MHz.  The only hand mods visible are beefier supply caps on the LMH6551s. The front end, which presumably includes the higher voltage attenuators, AC/DC selection and input amps is heavily screened in cans top and bottom side which I have no intention of trying to remove (another difference from the Hantek). Video triggering is implemented using a dedicated Rohm BA7046 sync separator rather than all in s/w. There are several other packages that I haven't managed to identify in the analogue area, and there is a scattering of supply regulators around the board.

All in all then a fairly large component cost compared to the opposition. It's clearly a more comprehensive design which presumably shares a lot of its acquisition circuitry with the PDS5022 desktop model, which shares the same  bandwidth, sample rate and memory depth. The supplied probes were 60MHz bandwidth X1/X10 which seem pretty good.

In terms of PC software, this is very subjective from user to user. I like the Owon for its lack of pseudo knobs (!) general screen layout and number of useful shortcuts (once you find them) and of course the added functionality. FFT and Maths traces can be selected to come up on a separate grid to the main traces. Persistence can be set from zero to infinity. Note that interpolation is fixed as sinX/X and trace colors, which match the probes and input connectors cannot be changed. The original s/w had a few bugs around single trace but the current s/w seems fine. I did flag one bug in the memory system at the end of last year which their engineers fixed (sending me a couple of test versions to confirm) before releasing, which I think could be described as 'responsive'.

Full disclosure: I have no connection with either company, other than having bought the Owon.

Pictures are attached and questions / comments are welcome. Thank you if you've made it this far!  :=\

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: rf-loop on August 25, 2015, 04:49:39 am
Thank you about this.

Is it possible you make one very tiny test,

If you have 50ohm BNC terminator use these, if not then input connectors open. (not probe, just open input BNC)
Both channels on, coupling DC.
Set vertical sensitivity to lowest voltage where is not BW rejection.
Set channels vertical positions so that other is 2div over center and other 2 div under center.

Set horizontal speed to 1ms/div,  if you can set persistence 1s or more

Scope display image.

Set horizontal to 1us/div, same persistence

Scope display image.

So we can see scope front end internal noise level.
(keep fingers and all far away from inputs for avoid external signal noise, also depending computer look that its (possible) EMI noise do not affect scope open inputs)

If you have 50 ohm terminators then repeat and take pictures with terminators connected
(in some cases if there internal noise levels this test may change displayed noise level (and how it change may also tell something, specially if it rise)

----

There is higher models also, and lets hope some day someone show VDS 2000 or 3000 series some teardown and tests. (10M memory, 500M and 1G samplerate, up to 4 channels etc)

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 25, 2015, 10:09:42 am
Hi rf-loop,

Yes, happy to help. I do have 50 ohm terminators so these are fitted.

I've attached the two saved images for 1ms/div (sampling at 250kS/s) and 1us/div (Sampling at 100MS/s) as you asked. The input stages are pretty quiet!

Settings were:

- 5mV/div (most sensitive)
- Persistence set to infinite (ran for about 2 mins each time)
- Sampling, Peak detect

I also turned on the measurements for Vp-p and Vrms.

I don't think pc induced noise is an issue due to the USB isolation.

Yes I'd like to see the higher models too! It's a shame the USB isolation only extends up to the 250MSps model.

I hope this gives you what you need. Please ask if you want other measurements.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 25, 2015, 10:57:18 am
Sorry, I just re-read your post and realized that you also asked for screenshots with terminators removed (empty sockets, no scope probes). Please find these attached too. All other settings the same, still nice and quiet.  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: rf-loop on August 25, 2015, 12:15:54 pm
Thank you. 
 
Result is not bad at all (some amount better what I expect). Of course it need note that analog BW is 25MHz so also analog front end natural noise is less what makes it quite easy.  (Higher analog BW makes it much more complicated and  there also circuit design and component selection is critical and in high role).  Also it is good that terminated inputs result is same or less that unterminated.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 25, 2015, 07:08:43 pm
Glad it was helpful, as you say the 25MHz bandwidth helps minimize the noise. I'll try an analogue sweep tomorrow and see what bandwidth it actually achieves, I've never thought to do that before.

P.S. I've just been browsing the Hantek 6022be, thread and seen that the claimed 100M samples is actually its memory buffer in the PC software, it only has the 2k fifo in the EzUSB micro as on-board memory, and can't continuously stream 48Msps to the PC. While the Owon's 5k samples per channel is still small in current terms, it is at least real, which is nice. :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 26, 2015, 03:12:17 pm
@ rf-loop,

Just to follow up, I ran a frequency scan today as I indicated. I used an Adret 730A synthesized sig gen with 50 ohm through-terminator directly at the scope input. At 1Vrms signal level. Averaging was turned on:

Channel 1 was -3dB at 34.7MHz
Channel 2 was -3dB at 31.2MHz

I guess this makes the 25MHz spec a little conservative, but easily enough to cope with worst case units.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on August 29, 2015, 03:29:11 am
Gyro,

thanks a lot for the teardown, and posting this!  Very timely.  (I had been thinking of doing a comparative review vs. the 6022BE, and just ordered the Owon recently for that purpose.  So you saved me quite a bit of time.)

The one real downside, spec-wise of the Owon is it's 5k samples per channel memory depth, versus a claimed 1M for the Hantek, not an issue for me, but might be for others.

Well, I'd consider the Hantek claim to be fraudulent, since the 1M isn't internal to the acquisition module.  They could as easily have claimed 10M/channel, or 100M.  IMO, if you're going to pull that kind of crap in your advertising, you have a responsibility to make it clear that you're leveraging the memory in the PC.  Which Hantek "accidentally" still fails to do (after having only years to correct it).  The 6022BE has 1k/channel internally, and they should be honest, and admit that.  Much of what we know about the Hantek device was only discovered after many folks here obtained them, and dug into their internals to expose the truth.  Hantek played no role in that.

Quote
The Owon also uses (only needs) USB 1.1 vs the Hantek's USB2.

That's interesting.  I say that because I was told specifically, and unequivocally by an Owon tech support person at Owon HQ that the USB1.1 was a leftover documentation error, and the actual interface was USB2.0.  However, I see from the ADC spec-sheet that only USB-FS is possible through the isolation device.  Which makes me suspect that the VDS-1022 (non I) has USB2.0, while the isolated version can do only USB1.1.  Unless their Tech was FOS.  There's certainly no reason, beyond the ADUM3160, that the Owon couldn't do USB2.0 w/o difficulty.  (But also, not much reason to do so.  Unlike on their higher-level VDS models, which have 5M or 10M/channel.)

Quote
It is in the architecture that I think the Owon wins. Where the Hantek just uses an EzUSB micro for interfacing the ADC to USB, the Owon includes a Silicon Labs SiM3U156 32 bit ARM Cortex-M3 CPU together with a Xilinx Spartan-3 FPGA. There's clearly a lot more happening on-board than in the Hantek.

No kidding!  The 6022BE cut every corner possible, and eliminated every component they could.  The device is essentially nothing more than a low-speed sample streamer, with extremely limited front-end gain scaling (prone to truncating traces, on many gain settings).  That's actually a very good chip-complement on the Owon.

Quote
...together with data compression needed to pipe the data via USB1.1 at decent refresh rate. It also results in very low PC overhead with minimal impact on running other applications even on a low-end PC.

I'm not sure any compression is required.  With just 5K/channel, even sending it all over (which isn't necessary in real-time modes), that's at least 100 screen refreshes/sec.

Quote
The 5k memory depth is clearly a less desirable side effect.

While that's certainly very low, in comparison with many current DSOs, it actually better than what most DSO's had available for many, many years.  At one point, 2K or 2.5K/chan was a "big deal".  And with decent triggering (which the Owon has), 5K can provide very good results, along with the ability to zoom in a bit (perhaps up to 10x).  While that's not going to challenge DSOs with 1000x, or 10,000x zooms, it's not bad for such an inexpensive device.

Quote
I'm not sure where the Hantek's triggering is handled, as it's edge only it could either be on-board or in the PC software.

There is no on-board triggering of any kind, and it's ALL handled in the PC software.   >:(  With pretty poor results at some sampling rates (highly unstable trace rendering).

Quote
The front end, which presumably includes the higher voltage attenuators, AC/DC selection and input amps is heavily screened in cans top and bottom side which I have no intention of trying to remove (another difference from the Hantek).

Yes, that's a big difference, and the residual noise levels are quite impressive on the Owon... FAR below those on the Hantek, even after extra shielding had been provided by owner-mods.

Quote
Video triggering is implemented using a dedicated Rohm BA7046 sync separator rather than all in s/w. There are several other packages that I haven't managed to identify in the analogue area, and there is a scattering of supply regulators around the board.

And again, it's impressive that they'd go to the trouble to incorporate a special chip, just to be able to provide Video triggering!

Quote
In terms of PC software, this is very subjective from user to user. I like the Owon for its lack of pseudo knobs (!) general screen layout and number of useful shortcuts (once you find them) and of course the added functionality.

Not having had an opportunity yet to operate one yet, I can't comment on usability.  But in terms of look and feel, and cleanness of the UI layout, I'd say it's head and shoulders beyond the software provided for the 6022BE.  As in, "generations apart".

Considering that the 6022BE generally goes for about $70, and the Owon VDS-1022 for about $50 more, I'd say that the Owon wins hands down.  Unless that $50 is so important to you that you're willing to put up with endless aggravation with the 6022BE, in general-purpose scope use.  OR you can make good use of the streaming capabilities of the 6022BE (which the Owon can't do at all).  Streaming on the Hantek is quite powerful, so if you need to capture a large amount of data (at either a high OR low speed), then the Hantek has that use-case nailed.  Just because the scope program that Hantek supplies limits you to 1M samples, doesn't mean that a simple App using their SDK can't capture far, far more than that.  Capturing a gig of samples shouldn't be difficult.


Thanks again for your efforts, Gyro, and taking the time to share.   :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on August 29, 2015, 04:35:37 am
Quick question...

Quote
The 'I' suffix indicates USB Isolation - you can float the scope ( the front panel BNCs are 'touchproof' style too). There's also a non-isolated version.

I see that the Model ID on the case of your unit says 1022, not 1022I.  Is there some more detailed info, perhaps on a bottom sticker?  I ask because what I ordered was a non-I model, but may wind up getting an I variant anyway.  I'm wondering if I'll have to take it apart to tell the difference?  (It's used, and I don't think the original package is included.)


Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 29, 2015, 11:00:14 am
Hi Mark,

Thanks for your comments and interest, there's nothing sadder than watching your treasured teardown sinking without trace for lack of interest  :). Grateful for rf-loop's questions of course and glad I've saved you some time too.

When I bought the Owon I hadn't really discovered EEVblog so hadn't seen the 6022be thread, it was really 50:50 whether I went for the Hantek or the Owon I did it purely on higher sample rate vs the extra cost, a lucky shot.

Quote
Well, I'd consider the Hantek claim to be fraudulent, since the 1M isn't internal to the acquisition module.  They could as easily have claimed 10M/channel, or 100M.  IMO, if you're going to pull that kind of crap in your advertising, you have a responsibility to make it clear that you're leveraging the memory in the PC.  Which Hantek "accidentally" still fails to do (after having only years to correct it).  The 6022BE has 1k/channel internally, and they should be honest, and admit that.  Much of what we know about the Hantek device was only discovered after many folks here obtained them, and dug into their internals to expose the truth.  Hantek played no role in that.

Me too, I didn't actually realize until I dug deeper into the 6022be thread. I'm not completely sure where the Owon has it's buffer, presumably in the ARM chip, or fifos implemented in the Xilinx  FPGA or both. Curiously the desktop version spec says 6k per channel, it's the only difference in spec from the 1022I. I guess the problem here is that it's going to be pretty much impossible to reverse engineer the Owon unlike the Hantek (unless you're a lot cleverer than me anyway!)

Quote
That's interesting.  I say that because I was told specifically, and unequivocally by an Owon tech support person at Owon HQ that the USB1.1 was a leftover documentation error, and the actual interface was USB2.0.  However, I see from the ADC spec-sheet that only USB-FS is possible through the isolation device.  Which makes me suspect that the VDS-1022 (non I) has USB2.0, while the isolated version can do only USB1.1.

Curious, maybe they think saying that something isn't actually USB2 isn't as impressive.  :-//  As you say, there's no was that USB2 is going to squeeze through the isolator. I've looked on the PCB and there's no way that the 'I' could be depopulated to a 'non I' so they must be different PCBs. Maybe the 'non-I' really is USB2.

Quote
No kidding!  The 6022BE cut every corner possible, and eliminated every component they could.  The device is essentially nothing more than a low-speed sample streamer, with extremely limited front-end gain scaling (prone to truncating traces, on many gain settings).  That's actually a very good chip-complement on the Owon.

Yes, certainly no sight on cost cutting, the BOM cost must be way higher for the price. Actually, another difference I've noticed between the VDS1022 'non-I' and 'I' specs... The 'non-I' states maximum input of 40Vp-p whereas the 'I' states 400vp-p. Now whether they are confusing input with input-to-ground with the USB isolation I don't know. There are certainly multiple relays under the shield, you can hear them click on some range changes. Of course as we've established that they are two different PCBs  :-// 40V is enough for 400V with a x10 probe anyway.

By the way, I don't know how the 6022be does its AC/DC input switching, I don't see any relays. Can it?

Quote
I'm not sure any compression is required.  With just 5K/channel, even sending it all over (which isn't necessary in real-time modes), that's at least 100 screen refreshes/sec.

You're probably right, less for the PC s/w to do too. Of course it's impossible to say how many screen refreshes it's doing, there's no spec as there would be on a desktop, but it's certainly fast enough. The PC overhead really is very low, you can't tell it's running on my humble T42 laptop under XP. DISCLAIMER, I haven't been able to try it the s/w on Win7 or later.

Yes, the 5k doesn't seem to be much of a limitation in practice (certainly coming from an analogue). It doesn't have protocol decoders so you're unlikely to be decoding long data streams (an LA is better for that anyway). The Zoom works fine and there are zoom assist cursors too. You can also set the trigger holdoff and position on screen which helps.

Quote
There is no on-board triggering of any kind, and it's ALL handled in the PC software.   >:(  With pretty poor results at some sampling rates (highly unstable trace rendering).

Again, hadn't realized that until I read the 6022be thread, that's horrible! Having decent triggering certainly seems to be a VDS1022 strength, it seems very stable. Having a proper ext trig is helpful - I haven't tried the trig-out functionality yet but hopefully its latency is good enough to be useful, it could certainly be used to post-trigger an logic analyser.

Quote
Not having had an opportunity yet to operate one yet, I can't comment on usability.  But in terms of look and feel, and cleanness of the UI layout, I'd say it's head and shoulders beyond the software provided for the 6022BE.  As in, "generations apart".

It certainly feels like it was designed by an engineer! Worth downloading a copy to play with the menus (and try it on Win7+) even if you can't get traces. I did so a comment somewhere complaining that menu driven was 'so last year' but it's very intuitive. I'm not sure how closely the manual writer was to the s/w engineer, there are lots of undocumented shortcuts - eg. hover over the v/div or t/div values and turn the mouse scroll wheel and they change without needing to bring up a slider. Click on a channel icon and it immediately brings up the channel menu, AC/DC/Off on the fly, same with trigger slope, little arrow next to the on-screen measurements that brings up the measurement menu etc. Non of them documented (I'm still finding them).

Quote
I see that the Model ID on the case of your unit says 1022, not 1022I.  Is there some more detailed info, perhaps on a bottom sticker?  I ask because what I ordered was a non-I model, but may wind up getting an I variant anyway.  I'm wondering if I'll have to take it apart to tell the difference?  (It's used, and I don't think the original package is included.)

Haha, yes, the only indication is the small barcode label serial number label on the bottom. It reads VDS1022Ixxxxxxx, a very skinny 'I' too, easy to miss.

I sense that I've rambled on again  :) Glad it helped.

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on August 29, 2015, 11:24:33 am
Quote
By the way, I don't know how the 6022be does its AC/DC input switching, I don't see any relays. Can it?

Nope.  DC-coupled only.  If you want AC, you add your own external cap, I guess.  ;)  And no Gnd/Off option either, of course.  Relays would have totally blown the budget on the Hanteks.  (It's really rather ingenious how far they managed to strip it down.  And I'd still recommend them for certain purposes.  Just not as a scope, except for those on the tightest of budgets.)

Thanks for the additional details, Chris.  It seems a shame that the software has so many undocumented goodies/shortcuts/usability enhancements.  Perhaps you could help fill that void.  It sounds like you've uncovered quite a few.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on August 29, 2015, 11:45:19 am
Quote
I'm not completely sure where the Owon has it's buffer, presumably in the ARM chip, or fifos implemented in the Xilinx  FPGA or both.

Unless one of the smaller chips you couldn't ID was a RAM chip, the dual 5K buffers must be located on the FPGA itself.  All the data has to flow through there anyway, for triggering to be handled. 

But it can't be passed on directly to the ARM chip at capture rates, because there is no external data channel capable of handling a 200MB/sec transfer rate.  At least not on any of the Cortex-M3's I have ever worked with!  It probably gets dumped from FPGA to ARM over a SPI-bus channel (DMA-driven).  That could potentially run as fast as ~25 MB/sec (Quad-SSP).  And then the ARM sends it out over USB, even slower yet.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 29, 2015, 02:19:52 pm
Clearly the man for a bit of reverse engineering then  ;D

I've taken some time to get the IPA swabs out and get some better pictures and identify a few more bits...

- The SOT23-5 opamps U1 and U4 between the shield and the AD603 VGAs are AD8061 300MHz rail to rail.

- There are a couple of SGM 8292YS8 High voltage dual rail to rail op-amps by the power converted (one top side, one bottom) with lots of passives around them. I'm wondering if they're being used as charge pumped supplies.

- A pair of SOT23-5s marked YJAA (SGM2019 250mA LDO 30uVrms), obviously low noise supplies for the front end.

- Various other SOT23-5s marked T081(?), S40B (? Switcher), 2 x SC0DA (? Switchers, logic supplies). All look supply related anyway.

There's a single 100MHz clock U76 feeding the ADC and FPGA directly.

Definitely no standalone RAM chip so data must be fifo'd in the FPGA as you said.

There seem to be quite a lot of parallel data signals between the FPGA and ARM so maybe not necessarily SPI. I've tried to get a decent close-up of the data from ADC to FPGA to ARM data paths anyway, nothing significant happening on the back.

During cleaning, a few more small hand mods became apparent. A couple of cuts in the horizontal tracks bottom left of the FPGA, just above U35, maybe related to the not fitted and jumpered-out U29 in the analogue section. There's also a perfectly executed USB signal crossover using diagonal series 24R terminating resistors R99 and R100, just off the top right corner of the ARM - happens to the best of us I guess  |O  ;D. Apart from that just a few resistor mods and the beefed up caps on the LMH6551s.

One other thing I can't think of is why include an option for fitting a non isolated RS232 port (there's a footprint for a MAX232 on the bottom side). Remote control? data logging? Console?

I've captured a closer view of the analogue section too (U12 is the video sync separator).

Hopefully clearer than my previous efforts anyway.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 29, 2015, 07:10:28 pm
Quote
Nope.  DC-coupled only.  If you want AC, you add your own external cap, I guess.  ;)  And no Gnd/Off option either, of course.  Relays would have totally blown the budget on the Hanteks.  (It's really rather ingenious how far they managed to strip it down.  And I'd still recommend them for certain purposes.  Just not as a scope, except for those on the tightest of budgets.)

Thanks for the additional details, Chris.  It seems a shame that the software has so many undocumented goodies/shortcuts/usability enhancements.  Perhaps you could help fill that void.  It sounds like you've uncovered quite a few.

Oops, didn't see your first email.

True, the Hantek  does still have its place - it is still one up from the LCD handheld scope type products and USB AX (analogue channel) and for less money. Still might be be a case of cutting the cloth a bit small for what it might have been for $10 more, Looking at the 6022be thread i sense a feeling of "it's ok but a bit disapointing". I do wonder how the manufacturing+BOM costs vs price ratio of the Hantek and Owon compare. I'm still surprised that the Owon hasn't achieved more traction, all I get in a google search are sales sites, virtually no forum type hits. Just looking back, I paid GBP84 for it last year from a UK ebay seller (there were loads). Only 1 ebay UK hit for it now at GBP212 :o I think you can get it much cheaper (nearer the $100 mark?) through the right China channels.

Yes, sure, I'll sit down and have a serious play and see how many undocumented mouse shortcuts I can find and post here. Maybe a marked up screenshot if I can draw well enough.

Just one other thought, as the ADC is direct clocked by the oscillator, it is always sampling flat out at 100MSps. I wonder what it does with all the samples that won't fit at lower speeds - does it have enough intelligence to be able to average them / oversample at lower timebase settings???
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on August 29, 2015, 07:59:26 pm
True, the Hantek  does still have its place - it is still one up from the LCD handheld scope type products and USB AX (analogue channel) and for less money. Still might be be a case of cutting the cloth a bit small for what it might have been for $10 more, Looking at the 6022be thread i sense a feeling of "it's ok but a bit disapointing".

I do think it's good value for money, but it's just not very good as a scope.  And yes, one of these is much cheaper than a USBee AX, though you then lose the time-correlated analog+digital data stream.  The 6022be would be great to use in a risky environment, where it could get hosed.  Smallest $ loss.

Quote
I'm still surprised that the Owon hasn't achieved more traction, all I get in a google search are sales sites, virtually no forum type hits.

The thing is that USB DSO modules have a bad rep to start with, and Owon isn't doing a lot of marketing.  Also, while the 1022 is priced affordably, as you move up the VDS series, the 2000/3000 are expensive enough that folks (rightfully) start to think that for a few $$ more, they could just get a DS-1054z.

But yes, I agree that the VDS1022 is definitely overlooked, which is why I ordered one myself, to shed some light on it.  Which you have already achieved.  There are boatloads of craptastic "USB DSO's", but I think the VDS1022 has some unique value at it's price point.

Quote
Just looking back, I paid GBP84 for it last year from a UK ebay seller (there were loads). Only 1 ebay UK hit for it now at GBP212 :o I think you can get it much cheaper (nearer the $100 mark?) through the right China channels.

They're readily available new for $119, on *bay for example.

Quote
Just one other thought, as the ADC is direct clocked by the oscillator, it is always sampling flat out at 100MSps. I wonder what it does with all the samples that won't fit at lower speeds - does it have enough intelligence to be able to average them / oversample at lower timebase settings???

That's actually a good thing, and justifies the full-time sin(x)/x curve-fitting (which could lead to serious aliasing problems if the sample rate dipped too low).

I'm sure the FPGA handles the extra samples properly, either decimating, averaging, or aggregating.  They perform those tasks really well.  The later two, of course, would be preferred.  With aggregation providing excellent peak-detect.

Quote
There seem to be quite a lot of parallel data signals between the FPGA and ARM so maybe not necessarily SPI.

In that case, you're right.  SPI isn't necessary.  The FPGA sample-memory block(s) could be mapped into an address space on the ARM chip, and byte-streamed across directly via a DMA channel.  That would be even faster than SPI, but probably still not enough to manage the 200MB/sec required for direct streaming.  I'd have to check my ARM manuals to make sure what max rates are possible in that scenario.  In the designs I've built, the SPI channel gave me all the speed I ever needed.

Thanks for the additional chip insights, and the higher quality pix!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 29, 2015, 08:28:45 pm
Quote
Owon isn't doing a lot of marketing.  Also, while the 1022 is priced affordably, as you move up the VDS series, the 2000/3000 are expensive enough that folks (rightfully) start to think that for a few $$ more, they could just get a DS-1054z.

True, they do just seem to be relying on their retailers, they're even hard to find on the Owon site without a specific part number search  :palm: Yes I noticed that, certainly on ebay prices anyway, the higher speed ones are straight into Rigol territory, you'd have to have a pretty specific space reason for NOT wanting the screen!

Quote
The FPGA sample-memory block(s) could be mapped into an address space on the ARM chip, and byte-streamed across directly via a DMA channel.  That would be even faster than SPI, but probably still not enough to manage the 200MB/sec required for direct streaming.  I'd have to check my ARM manuals to make sure what max rates are possible in that scenario.  In the designs I've built, the SPI channel gave me all the speed I ever needed.

Knew you were the man for the job  :)

I was having another look at the board, there seem to be a few traces between the ARM and that dual high voltage opamp. It might be tied in with the on-chip ADCs/DACs for some purpose... the self-cal function maybe. Too slow for any sort of triggering, the SGM 8292YS8's GBP is only 1.5MHz. I wish we had a schematic!

I'm looking forward to yours turning up now!  :clap:
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on August 30, 2015, 01:35:16 am
Yes I noticed that, certainly on ebay prices anyway, the higher speed ones are straight into Rigol territory, you'd have to have a pretty specific space reason for NOT wanting the screen!

Surprisingly, the value proposition just  isn't there, at the higher-end.  A 4-channel unit, 5M/chan, max 1 GSa/s,  and 100 MHz BW, is priced at $400.  Considering how much more a Rigol offers, it's hard to see why they'd price a VDS3104 that high.  Unless you've always got a laptop handy, and want to add just an acquisition module for travel, a standalone 1054z would almost always make more sense.

Quote
Quote
The FPGA sample-memory block(s) could be mapped into an address space on the ARM chip, and byte-streamed across directly via a DMA channel.  That would be even faster than SPI, but probably still not enough to manage the 200MB/sec required for direct streaming.  I'd have to check my ARM manuals to make sure what max rates are possible in that scenario.  In the designs I've built, the SPI channel gave me all the speed I ever needed.

Knew you were the man for the job  :)

I took a quick look at the Ref Manual for the SiLabs ARM chip, and with it clocked at the max-rated 80 MHz, DMA transfers thru the EBI would run 20-40 MB/sec, depending on # of clock cycles required per transfer (looked like ~3), and if it was an 8-lane or 16-lane data bus.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 30, 2015, 09:36:07 am
Hmm, I guess it all depends whats happening in the FPGA then. I might try tracing out what pins are in use on the ARM (no point at the the FPGA end :palm:).

Just wondering what would happen if it re-made those two cut traces, what magic function........ No not worth the risk  :scared: It will be interesting to compare with your board though!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on September 03, 2015, 01:03:46 pm
As requested, the definitive (ish) list of Owon VDS1022 Software shortcuts....

I haven't included keyboard shortcuts (those are documented in the manual). All of the menu's referred to can be accessed by the large 'home' icon on the right hand side, but some of the shortcuts bring up the relevant one directly.

The numbers tie up to the attached Screenshot:

(1) Clicking on the small arrow directly brings up the measurement cursors menu for time and / or voltage.

(2) Clicking on the small '+' icon (only appears when the mouse pointer is in the measurements area) immediately brings up the measurements selection menu.

(3) Clicking on either of the channel numbers immediately brings up the channel settings menu.

(4) Volts/div selection, Clicking brings up a normal popup+slider However if you just hover the mouse over it instead you can use the scroll wheel to increment/decrement directly, much quicker.

(5) Clicking here toggles between DC / AC / GND for that channel.

Additional, hovering in either of the channel boxes also brings up a small 'x' icon to turn off the channel. Clicking in a greyed out channel box will turn it on again. (couldn't show this and (2) at the same time).

(6) Clicking in the 'T' box brings up a slider for trigger position. It's normally easier just to drag the red trigger position flag at the top of the screen, but the 'T' box click also brings up a useful 'Reset' button to restore to the middle.

(7) Time/div... Similar operation to the V/div. Clicking brings up the pop-up/slider but mouse-over and scroll wheel changes the value directly.

(8 ) Clicking toggles the trigger source between Chan1, Chan2 and Ext (trigger marker on right hand edge of screen changes color to match).

(9) Clicking toggles trigger polarity, works on edge, slope and pulse (icon changes to match trigger type). In Video trigger mode it toggles Odd, Even, Line etc.

(10) Click to alter trigger level - Actually it's far easier and more accurate to drag the trigger marker on the right hand side if the screen, but clicking here also brings up two useful buttons to 'Reset' the trigger level and 'Set to 50%'.

Obviously clicking the Trigger button takes you straight to the Trigger menu.

Some, but not all of the above shortcuts may be documented somewhere, but certainly not all (eg. the scroll wheel ones). Avoiding having to navigate the menu system for most things apart from initial setup speeds thing up quite a lot.

Hope it helps...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on September 18, 2015, 09:55:07 am
Hey Mark_O has your 1022 turned up yet??? (in the spirit of you show me yours and I'll show you mine :) ).

It would be interesting to see the layout differences between the -I and non-I PCBs.

In the analogue area I'm wondering if the U29 footprint (or equivalent) on yours is configured the same way as mine. It's a shared SSOP10 device shared between both channels (the only shared IC in the analogue section). The 2 cut tracks from the Cortex CPU that I mentioned originally went to U29 pins 5 and 6 via RC filters (configured to be outputs from the CPU, inputs to U29), possibly PWM I suppose.

On mine, pins 7 and 9 are linked (Channel 1 side) but the equivalent pins (1 and 3) for Channel 2 aren't. When I added a link the channel 2  voltage noise readings changed. It settled after and Autocal but the noise readings were still higher than before. I tried it a couple of times and autocal was needed after each add/remove. I don't want to try again (or remove the Channel 1 jumper) for fear of losing pads. Pins 10 and 4 are +ve and -ve supplies. Inputs on 1 and 9, outputs on 3 and 7, f/b network to 2 and 8?

A not-fitted part always makes me wonder about additional functionality but not sure what it would have been, a switch? Mux?, another VGA?, Filter? Something controlled by the CPU anyway. Its position is between the gain stages and ADC driver amps. It may have been removed because it degraded cross-talk performance. I haven't turned up any likely candidates based on pinout.

As I say, I'm curious to see if yours is configured the same way.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on September 19, 2015, 01:21:35 pm
Hey Mark_O has your 1022 turned up yet???

Yes, it arrived some time ago.

Quote
It would be interesting to see the layout differences between the -I and non-I PCBs.

I agree.  However, I've been unable to open mine.  :(  The jewelers screwdrivers I have are the only one's small enough to fit, but I can't get enough torque to loosen the screws.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on September 19, 2015, 05:18:28 pm
I hope it's living up to expectations.

Quote
I agree.  However, I've been unable to open mine.  :(  The jewelers screwdrivers I have are the only one's small enough to fit, but I can't get enough torque to loosen the screws.

Ah, that's frustrating. Self-tap screws do tend to stick in anodized aluminium. A pair of mole grips clamped to the jewelers screwdriver handle often yields results of one sort or another  ;D (or the local application of heat   :scared: :palm:)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on September 19, 2015, 07:28:40 pm
Ah, that's frustrating.

No kidding.  They didn't make it any easier by recessing the screws so deeply in a narrow shaft.  I can't get any larger screwdrivers in there.   |O

What I really need is something with a smaller shank, but a nice hefty handle.  Hmm... something like this:

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on September 19, 2015, 08:22:18 pm
OK.  That did the trick.  Now what did you want to see?

U37 and U9 are gone... replaced by a handful of 0-ohm resistors.  So no USB-isolator on this non-I board, or USB1 slowdown.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on September 19, 2015, 08:28:06 pm
You were asking about U29.  I don't remember where it was on your board, but on mine it's in a spot I think was empty on your's.

(BTW, my board rev is V1.4, dated 2014.08.04.  About a year newer than your V1.2 board.  Not surprising, considering how long you've had yours.)

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on September 19, 2015, 09:58:16 pm
Ahha, Interesting. Thank you!  :) Glad you managed to get it open.

It didn't occur to me that the non-I link components would be underneath the Isolator footprints - Obvious when you think about it!  :palm: I wonder if the USB speed actually makes any difference.

You have a fairly easy option to convert yours into a -I if you want to then. Possibly worth it for the ground isolation benefit, not sure how much benefit in terms of noise performance, but they do mention it in the blurb. From the look of it the passives (eg. high voltage cap C95) are already in place.

On mine the U29 footprint is up at the front in the analogue section, near the shield. If you have something fitted I'd be grateful for a part number - if only to understand what it does!

Thanks again for the photos (if you could maybe post one of the analogue end of the board? :)). I'm keen to compare them in detail and see if I can see any improvements that can be retrofitted to the Rev1.2 board.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on September 19, 2015, 10:16:08 pm
Ah, I see the confusion - some major renumbering, why did they use 'U' numbers for inductors too?  :palm:

Photo with MY U29 highlighted attached.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on September 19, 2015, 10:53:16 pm
Photo with MY U29 highlighted attached.

Thanks!  I just managed to find where U29 was on your board.  I was looking all over, in the wrong places.

On my board, that whole circuit has vaporized.  R80 and 81 are gone, and R77 and R78, along with caps C69, C70, C77, and C78.  Oh, and R73 and R75 too.  Sorry about the rotation, but I was trying to landscape it, and get a good perspective.  I'm assuming you can rotate it for a better side-by-side comparison.

What may not be immediately obvious is that they did a really sloppy job of aligning the shielding can (just visible at the bottom).  It also doesn't fit anywhere near flush with the board, either.  :(
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on September 19, 2015, 11:07:12 pm
It's easier to see the sloppy shield mounting on this full-board shot, along with the heavy copper ground strapping (that extends around to the rear shielding can as well).

[And, as shown above in Reply 24, U29 on my board is an HC595 serial-in-parallel out shifter, located upper-right here.]
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on September 19, 2015, 11:34:10 pm
I wonder if the USB speed actually makes any difference.

In a practical sense, no.  Even with USB1, it could forward ~150 captures/sec.  Which is faster than they'd be updated on screen.  In a theoretical sense, yes.  With USB2, up to 3,000 captures/sec could be uploaded to the PC, which could be useful if they were merged into a variable persistence display, for example.

Quote
On mine the U29 footprint is up at the front in the analogue section, near the shield. If you have something fitted I'd be grateful for a part number - if only to understand what it does!  ...  I'm keen to compare them in detail and see if I can see any improvements that can be retrofitted to the Rev1.2 board.

It looks like they did a fair bit of redesign there, and revised the layout quite significantly.  And no trace cuts now (that I noticed), for example.  I think they did swap in a LOT heftier v-reg for U25, compared to what I recall on your board.

If there's anything else you'd like to see closeups of, let me know before I button it back up again.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on September 20, 2015, 10:35:13 am
Nice clear photos, thanks very much  :)  Sorry,your last posts came in after bed time, yes I think that gives me everything I need so you're safe to button it up again.

Quote
It looks like they did a fair bit of redesign there, and revised the layout quite significantly.  And no trace cuts now (that I noticed), for example.  I think they did swap in a LOT heftier v-reg for U25, compared to what I recall on your board.

It looks like a nice tidy clean-up pass. If they've been doing such active work on the board in the past year it looks as if they see some ongoing life in it (hopefully s/w too, although it seems clean now). I see they've kept the RS232 port footprints too :-\

Losing (my) U29 has tidied up the front end nicely so it possibly has lower crosstalk. I wonder what it was... My only thought is that it might have been an analog mux for an abandoned single channel 200MSps experiment. As you say, no trace cuts - the control tracks across the board have been deleted.

Your U29 is new, I must look at what that does. It must be s/w transparent with mine (but maybe different firmware  - to free up some GPIOs?).

Interesting regulator change (LM337 -ve?), it looks as if they did have issues with the equivalent reg on mine because there is rework around it - I must look closer look at noise / temp to see if it is worth a (slightly messy) retrofit.

It's a shame about the twisted shield, I don't think the PCB slot sizes are big enough to twist that far so it looks as if they may have needed to remove the tab at that end (misplaced hole?) and replace it with the copper strap. It hopefully doesn't have any performance impact anyway. Maybe they've just bent the tab up, resulting in the poorer board spacing, might be possible to rectify (after warranty?)

Quote
In a practical sense, no.  Even with USB1, it could forward ~150 captures/sec.  Which is faster than they'd be updated on screen.  In a theoretical sense, yes.  With USB2, up to 3,000 captures/sec could be uploaded to the PC, which could be useful if they were merged into a variable persistence display, for example.

Ah, good point, I wonder if it enumerates as USB1 or USB2? It's hopefully possible to tell.

I really appreciate your taking the time to do this Mark, I owe you one  :)

EDIT: Ah, got it now! My U29 was the mux to select the Video trigger source (obvious when I saw the track difference on yours  :)). hence the jumper on only one side of the footprint, I must have partially coupled the channels when I tried to jumper the other side. The s/w pops up a message saying Video trigger only supported on Channel 1 when you try to set it to Chan 2. It must have compromised performance too much in other areas - a fair trade-off. Glad I understand it now anyway. :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on September 20, 2015, 02:42:10 pm
Nice clear photos, thanks very much  :) 

You're welcome.  They're not tack sharp, since I did them handheld with available light.  But they came out pretty decent.

Quote
If they've been doing such active work on the board in the past year it looks as if they see some ongoing life in it (hopefully s/w too, although it seems clean now). I see they've kept the RS232 port footprints too :-\

I agree about the ongoing product life.  From the S/N difference, they may have sold ~10k units between yours and mine, and expect to continue to do more.  No way to really know about the RS232, but they may have designed that in as an alternate to USB, for some countries where RS232 is still more prevalent (old laptops).

Quote
Interesting regulator change (LM337 -ve?),

Yep.

Quote
It's a shame about the twisted shield, I don't think the PCB slot sizes are big enough to twist that far so it looks as if they may have needed to remove the tab at that end (misplaced hole?) and replace it with the copper strap.

I'm less concerned with the twisting, and more with the fact that in sections, there's more than a 2mm gap away from the PCB.  But looking at it again more closely, I now see that the can itself is basically defective.  I.e., it's not just that it isn't fully seated on the board, with the tabs not inserted all the way (though that is true on the top... the back is perfect).  But the bent part of the metal lip on the side away from the BNCs is longer/taller on the right than it is on the left!  So SOME gap was going to be inevitable.

Quote
Ah, good point, I wonder if it enumerates as USB1 or USB2? It's hopefully possible to tell.

I am sure it enumerates as USB2 (HighSpeed).  It's a simple voltage indication on the USB lines, and there's no reason at all for it not to.

Quote
I really appreciate your taking the time to do this Mark, I owe you one  :)

No problem at all, Chris.  Nice to have multiple eyes on an analysis.  I'm really glad you did all the heavy-lifting on this one.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: LogicalDave on December 09, 2015, 12:08:20 am
A quick thank you for the teardown and review!  I bought two of the Owon VDS1022 scopes (non-isolated version); I removed the 8x 0R resistors and installed the two isolation chips (ADUM3160BRWZ, DCP020505U) and my scopes are now isolated so I'm not risking my computers each time I use them.  I really like the VDS1022 scopes; the software is great as is the portability and desk footprint; I rarely use my bench scopes anymore unless I need to look at signals faster than 25MHz.  Having them isolated now is a nice plus.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 09, 2015, 06:04:17 pm
Ah, I wondered if anyone had actually done that (there was always just a chance that there might have been something hidden somewhere to stop it). Thanks for reporting back!  :)

I guess that answers our USB1.1 vs USB2 data transfer speed question, Mark.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on December 09, 2015, 08:46:40 pm
I just ordered the Owon 3104  4-channel 100MHz unit - will report when it turns up.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 09, 2015, 09:03:20 pm
We need an emoticon for 'Rubs hands in anticipation'. Looking forward to the teardown  ;D
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: blueskull on December 09, 2015, 09:13:31 pm
I just ordered the Owon 3104  4-channel 100MHz unit - will report when it turns up.

Well, I it does not look too good inside, but the performance justifies its money.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: blueskull on December 09, 2015, 09:24:50 pm
2 minute teardown:

Main PCB, ARM and FPGA.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: blueskull on December 09, 2015, 09:26:37 pm
Here is where my rage comes from. They managed to fit 2 large LMCC caps there to fulfill isolation requirements, but the PCB gap??? Kidding me?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: blueskull on December 09, 2015, 09:27:46 pm
They definitely know how to build power supplies and clock circuits, thumbs up on this part.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: blueskull on December 09, 2015, 09:28:33 pm
Sometimes engineering fails are beneficial, such as this warranty sticker >:D.

EOF
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 09, 2015, 10:01:54 pm
Thanks for the quick teardown. :)

I wouldn't say it looks bad inside by any means, a neat layout. I do see what you mean about the clearance on the LAN isolation though - the clearances on the 1022 USB isolation are rather better implemented. There was good attention to proper clock routing and termination there too.

The self defeating warranty label is certainly to your benefit  ;D There was nothing sealing the 1022, less IP to protect I guess.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: blueskull on December 09, 2015, 10:10:10 pm
By saying bad I meant uncleaned solder flux and crappy cheap plastic as well as poorly extruded aluminum case. The PCB layout is generally good. This thing consumes tons of power and gets hot quickly (and drains battery quickly).

The frontend is a little noisier than a desktop SDS7102, but giving it has to be powered from tight USB power budget, I will give it a go.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 09, 2015, 10:33:08 pm
Maybe a little hard on your countrymen, yes the PCB could be better cleaned though. At least the joints are nice and shiny.

I'm not surprised it heats up, they're squeezing a lot of performance into the same small case. I've noticed that noise level varies with length of USB lead on the 1022 (admittedly a cheap ebay 3m one so actually I should be surprised that it works at all with the voltage drop! :palm:). I may experiment with a separate isolated DC supply at some stage, that certainly made a difference on the low speed 16bit Picoscope that I use for audio measurements (that's a very different noise floor requirement of course).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 09, 2015, 11:08:11 pm
If you are asking about the ones with the VDS1022, then yes it came with two P6060 60MHz switchable x10/x1 probes. You can find pictures on ebay if you search for P6060, but these came in black rather than grey. They seem to be perfectly adequate for the job and are nicely insulated at the BNC end (to match the isolation).

The software allows you to select x1, x10, x100 and x1000 probe attenuation factors.  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: blueskull on December 09, 2015, 11:09:55 pm
i read the spec on the website, and is curious about the probes. is it inclusive in purchase when you bought it? and according to the website, it has 1000x feature?
http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175 (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175)

if it is not too much trouble, could you post pics of the probe too (tyvm)

It comes with 2 switchable 1:1/10:1 100MHz 300V CAT I/II probes.
The probes look like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/220375454020?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82, (http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/220375454020?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82,) but the OWON ones come with plastic covered BNC, not bare metal.
I don't have OWON probes with me right now, I randomly grabbed an Agilent probe with me, so the one I'm now using is not its bundled probe.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 09, 2015, 11:14:39 pm
Ah, just like these (the P6060s):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-BNC-60MHz-Oscilloscope-Probe-Clip-P6060-X1-X10-600V-/161805210779?hash=item25ac57949b:g:An8AAOSwgQ9V3JuV (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-BNC-60MHz-Oscilloscope-Probe-Clip-P6060-X1-X10-600V-/161805210779?hash=item25ac57949b:g:An8AAOSwgQ9V3JuV)

Edit: Though obviously new ones!  :D
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: blueskull on December 09, 2015, 11:41:24 pm
Ah, just like these (the P6060s):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-BNC-60MHz-Oscilloscope-Probe-Clip-P6060-X1-X10-600V-/161805210779?hash=item25ac57949b:g:An8AAOSwgQ9V3JuV (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-BNC-60MHz-Oscilloscope-Probe-Clip-P6060-X1-X10-600V-/161805210779?hash=item25ac57949b:g:An8AAOSwgQ9V3JuV)

Edit: Though obviously new ones!  :D

Seems someone connected the wrong ground and BAM!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 10, 2015, 10:45:19 am
Haha, yes I noticed that - chalk one up for ground isolation!  ;D

Edit: I just captured and added the relevant image for future generations, it is a bit of a classic.  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on December 10, 2015, 12:23:09 pm
I guess that answers our USB1.1 vs USB2 data transfer speed question, Mark.

Yep.

I also noticed that there is currently an eBay Seller with 5 of these units (VDS1022, non I) on sale, for just $84 (shipped):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121825404806 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/121825404806)

These normally run $110-120.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on December 21, 2015, 12:30:03 pm
Just received the 3014.
Initial impressions :
Software not nearly as bad as I expected - UI has room for improvement but not bad as Chinese SW goes.
A few minor controls are very badly implemented (e.g. trig pulse width & holdoff).
There are key shortcuts for viatal stuff like X & Y scaling, but could do with a lot more.
Screen update speed pretty good but some controls are a little sluggish.
Uses "wrong" Usb connector (A) , and comes with  a "Y" lead in case you need to pull power from 2 ports ( draws approx 880mA)

Will do a video soon but I have a shed to build...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on December 21, 2015, 10:06:52 pm
Weather too bad for shed-building so...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO712DvGAKA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO712DvGAKA)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 22, 2015, 02:39:28 pm
Nice review Mike  :-+

As you say, it would be nice to have some more keyboard shortcuts (though I wouldn't put it past them to have forgotten to document some). Here are some screen shortcuts, some documented, some not, which you might not have found yet:

As requested, the definitive (ish) list of Owon VDS1022 Software shortcuts....

I haven't included keyboard shortcuts (those are documented in the manual). All of the menu's referred to can be accessed by the large 'home' icon on the right hand side, but some of the shortcuts bring up the relevant one directly.

The numbers tie up to the attached Screenshot:

(1) Clicking on the small arrow directly brings up the measurement cursors menu for time and / or voltage.

(2) Clicking on the small '+' icon (only appears when the mouse pointer is in the measurements area) immediately brings up the measurements selection menu.

(3) Clicking on either of the channel numbers immediately brings up the channel settings menu.

(4) Volts/div selection, Clicking brings up a normal popup+slider However if you just hover the mouse over it instead you can use the scroll wheel to increment/decrement directly, much quicker.

(5) Clicking here toggles between DC / AC / GND for that channel.

Additional, hovering in either of the channel boxes also brings up a small 'x' icon to turn off the channel. Clicking in a greyed out channel box will turn it on again. (couldn't show this and (2) at the same time).

(6) Clicking in the 'T' box brings up a slider for trigger position. It's normally easier just to drag the red trigger position flag at the top of the screen, but the 'T' box click also brings up a useful 'Reset' button to restore to the middle.

(7) Time/div... Similar operation to the V/div. Clicking brings up the pop-up/slider but mouse-over and scroll wheel changes the value directly.

(8 ) Clicking toggles the trigger source between Chan1, Chan2 and Ext (trigger marker on right hand edge of screen changes color to match).

(9) Clicking toggles trigger polarity, works on edge, slope and pulse (icon changes to match trigger type). In Video trigger mode it toggles Odd, Even, Line etc.

(10) Click to alter trigger level - Actually it's far easier and more accurate to drag the trigger marker on the right hand side if the screen, but clicking here also brings up two useful buttons to 'Reset' the trigger level and 'Set to 50%'.

Obviously clicking the Trigger button takes you straight to the Trigger menu.

Some, but not all of the above shortcuts may be documented somewhere, but certainly not all (eg. the scroll wheel ones). Avoiding having to navigate the menu system for most things apart from initial setup speeds thing up quite a lot.

Hope it helps...

EDIT: A few more shortcuts:

- <Space>  brings up (or closes) the last menu selected (like clicking the Menu button)

- When in numeric popups (V/div, T/div, number key will cycle through values for that number. eg. Pressing 2 will cycle 2us 20us, 200us, 2ms etc.

- It will take the first letter of a menu item to select, eg. Trigger mode will take E, S, V, P etc. This seems to happen even after you've shifted focus. Shame it doesn't do the same thing for numerical inputs on the trigger holdoff.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: blueskull on December 22, 2015, 02:56:09 pm
3104 looks better than 3102, at least the isolated LAN implementation, and it has a heatsink.

My 3102 gets really hot after plugged in USB, regardless its PC software is running or not.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: mecanico on January 06, 2016, 10:27:25 pm
Hi folks,
Didn't know about this scope.
I would like to know if it is better than hantek, even with the aftermarket software?

Greetings
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on January 07, 2016, 09:11:36 am
I would like to know if it is better than hantek, even with the aftermarket software?

It all depends on what you want to use it for.  Some things, yes.  Other things, no.  It's not black & white.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 07, 2016, 11:52:57 am
That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on January 07, 2016, 01:22:36 pm
That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.

No, Chris.  Just grumpy at 4am maybe  :o, when someone can't be bothered to read anything that has been posted here.  After all the effort that has been invested by folks like you, doing all the work to provide it for them.   :palm:


The sad fact is that even the best aftermarket software in the world isn't going to change the fundamental capabilities of the hardware, which have been shown to be dramatically better on the Owon than the Hantek.

OTOH, if what someone needs is a long-duration data streamer, the Owon is simply incapable of that.  So the Hantek wins there, and that's all I use mine for. 

For others, the relatively small increment in price for the Owon may be an insurmountable hurdle, and better to have the Hantek than nothing at all (and benefit from the 3rd party software, generously made available at no cost).  Because that's really the niche that the Hantek fills... better than nothing at all.  (But such folks need to be prepared to pay that price many times over, dealing with the handicaps of actually using the Hantek.)


Is that better?   >:D

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: mecanico on January 07, 2016, 06:25:42 pm
Hello Mark_O
First of all, I would like to thank you for answer and tell you that I actually read most of the thread. However, since my background aren't eletronics, as you might guess, I didn't understand most of it (maybe I should apologize for that :-// ???
Let me explain you, I'm starting to move with eletronics, and what I want is to be able to control microprocessores and actuators/transducers... That is why I want to buy a USB oscillscope because being it a hobby, I don't wan't to spend a fortune on it. I don't mind spending an extra 20€ or something beyond the hantek value, what I would like to know is if these extra  20€ are worth it...


PS: maybe you should get some sleep  :-+

Greetings
That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.

No, Chris.  Just grumpy at 4am maybe  :o, when someone can't be bothered to read anything that has been posted here.  After all the effort that has been invested by folks like you, doing all the work to provide it for them.   :palm:


The sad fact is that even the best aftermarket software in the world isn't going to change the fundamental capabilities of the hardware, which have been shown to be dramatically better on the Owon than the Hantek.

OTOH, if what someone needs is a long-duration data streamer, the Owon is simply incapable of that.  So the Hantek wins there, and that's all I use mine for. 

For others, the relatively small increment in price for the Owon may be an insurmountable hurdle, and better to have the Hantek than nothing at all (and benefit from the 3rd party software, generously made available at no cost).  Because that's really the niche that the Hantek fills... better than nothing at all.  (But such folks need to be prepared to pay that price many times over, dealing with the handicaps of actually using the Hantek.)


Is that better?   >:D
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 07, 2016, 06:49:04 pm
Hi Mark. Ah, the dreaded 4am, never a good time (whichever end of the day it's tacked onto) :(

I agree, it's frustrating when all the information is there on a plate (not forgetting your significant contribution too) but not made use of.

Good point on the long duration streaming, Owon really could to do it with much better USB resilience given the device's greater intelligence and buffering capability compared to the Hantek. Thankfully not an issue for general use.

Glad you're ok anyway.  :)

Chris


EDIT: @mecanico, I think the last paragraph of Mark's last reply addressed your question very clearly.
P.S. I've just seen the additional information on your mechanical background in your Beginners thread, so maybe it would be helpful to re-read the thread a couple of times while googling a few terms if you don't understand them. I understand that you are on a learning curve (aren't we all!).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: mecanico on January 07, 2016, 07:13:37 pm
Yes, I understood that Makr has the opinion that the owon is better, however I don't know what do you mean by streaming, is that the amount of data that is shown in the screen? SHouldn't that be limited by the MHz?  Btw, what is the isolation all about? I read something about burning up the PC?

Greetings
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 07, 2016, 08:01:19 pm
We seem to be doing a lot of talking between this and your Beginners thread  :D

Long duration streaming is where you want to collect a lot of data (usually many Mbytes) over a longer period of time (a bit like a data-logger). It streams the data to a large data buffer or file on the PC. The Hantek effectively has to do this all the time because it has no internal memory and no intelligence - this is also the reason that people have problems with it when working at higher speeds, it is very dependent on being able to get the data through the USB interface fast enough, it is left to the PC S/W too to decide when a trigger event has happened. In comparison, the Owon has intelligence and internal triggering which means that it only has to send the small amount of data to actually display on the screen, meaning that it can easily work with USB1.1 (also a reason that it is available with USB isolation - it is really difficult to isolate USB2). Unfortunately is also means that Owon have been 'lazy' in not implementing streaming, it can display at low timebases (and of course trigger and capture screenshots) but it doesn't have a streaming to PC mode for large amounts of data over long durations.

P.S. I have answered you USB isolation question in your Beginners thread.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mark_O on January 07, 2016, 11:27:42 pm
Good point on the long duration streaming, Owon really could to do it with much better USB resilience given the device's greater intelligence and buffering capability compared to the Hantek.

The Owon is vastly better as a scope than the Hantek.  However it's not nearly as good when it comes to the API, if you need to roll your own functionality.  Beyond being able to stream, the Hantek's interface is very direct, and has even been reverse-engineered so you could "talk" to it over USB on any platform (Linux, Mac, Android, etc.), from just about any device.

The Owon is more limited, and its driver for Windows doesn't actually send either a stream OR a buffer of data to your App.  Instead, it puts it in a file(!), and you have to go retrieve it from there.  Even on their higher-end models with 5MSa/channel.  There were some other gotchas I discussed with their engineers last year, but I'd have to dig up my notes.

However, none of that matters at all, as long as you're running their App (which I consider to be quite good), and have a Windows-based platform to run it on.


For anyone just getting started with electronics exploration, I think there's enough to be learned without constantly having to ask yourself why your instrument is doing this or that strange thing.  And can't do some things at all.  It just adds another obstacle to the learning process.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: mecanico on January 08, 2016, 07:06:08 pm
Great answers! Thank you very much!
Owon it will be!
Greetins
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: znww5 on January 27, 2016, 04:40:05 pm
Just a quick note to say thanks very much for this thread, together with the photos and the discussion it has given me all the info I needed to leave the 'analogue era'!

David

 :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 28, 2016, 06:37:43 pm
Welcome to the forum David.

Always nice to know that these threads help people even after the discussion has died down. Let us know how you get on.  :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: KNO3- on February 08, 2016, 07:50:27 am
Hey! New to the site and fairly new to the hobby as well. Been messing with arduinos for about 6 months or so. Thanks for posting all this info, after opening mine up and doing some googling i found this thread.

I just received this scope from eBay. I decided to open it and have a look at the internals before using it. Found some issues that got missed by QC, maybe they don't confirm the component placements. Anyway, R55,56,58,59 moved around when they were soldered. It also appears that R90 and R103 may be missing from the bottom, unless these have been omitted for a reason. Also the shield around the inputs doesnt go all the way to the board, there is about a 2mm gap, not sure if that matters or not. The ones in the PCB pics here show them in place though. I'll try to post some pictures if i can.

I'm thinking ill probably just return it but in the off chance i decide its better to just attempt to repair it can someone post a hi-res pic of each of those locations? Unfortunately the ones already posted here aren't clear enough to see the resistor values.

How do i post pictures?

EDIT: I did try it out but after opening and checking it. It seemed to work fine but I was concerned about the "missing" and "moved around" resistors. I have since learned that Gyro installed the resistors I had thought were missing and on closer inspection the moved resistors appear to be a factory mod.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: KNO3- on February 08, 2016, 07:56:40 am
Here's some pictures, I realized the size of the pictures was the reason they wouldn't post.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: rf-loop on February 08, 2016, 10:45:15 am
Anyway, R55,56,58,59 moved around when they were soldered.

My "quess" is that this is designed modification if you look more carefully this circuit and what have changed.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: KNO3- on February 08, 2016, 10:56:10 am

Quote

My "quess" is that this is designed modification if you look more carefully this circuit and what have changed.

You think so? The ones missing on the back that would make sense but these...I'm not so sure. The resistor sticking out of the side of R59 doesnt even appear to be attached to anything. There is no pad, unless they have scratched out a new pad underneath there.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 08, 2016, 10:57:06 am
Hi,

You didn't think it was worth testing it before opening it up? That sort of thing can give you problems with the seller if you disturb tamper seals etc.

From what I can see:

- The resistors around R55-R59 look like deliberate board mods with additional resistors added between nodes and ground plane.

- R90 and R103 are used to connect the USB connector ground to the main ground plane. You have purchased the 1022I USB isolation version so these resistors wouldn't be fitted (you shouldn't expect every footprint on a PCB to be populated on every option).

- The small gap under the screening can shouldn't have any significant effect, I think Mark_O noticed the same on his unit, I can't remember the reason now.

It would be silly to return it or start attacking it with a soldering iron until you've actually tested it to see if it works. You're also going to run into problems with the seller if you tell him you want to return it because you opened it up!  :palm:  Put it back together, install it and see if it works - please try doing that and report back.

P.S. There is a downside of the "Don't turn it on, take it apart" mentality on this forum when adopted by the inexperienced, sorry.

EDIT: Yes I suspect that the resistor to the side of R59 is soldered to a bare area on the groundplane.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: KNO3- on February 08, 2016, 11:35:40 am
Hi,

You didn't think it was worth testing it before opening it up? That sort of thing can give you problems with the seller if you disturb tamper seals etc.

Of course I tried it and there are no tamper seals. But just because it seems to work doesn't necessarily mean it's working properly or going to keep working as it is. Or maybe some setting i try in the future doesn't work. Although since this is related to the USB connection that's probably unlikely.

Quote
- R90 and R103 are used to connect the USB connector ground to the main ground plane. You have purchased the 1022I USB isolation version so these resistors wouldn't be fitted (you shouldn't expect every footprint on a PCB to be populated on every option).

I didn't expect the board to be fully populated, there are lots of other areas not populated. The only reason I was curious about these two resistors is the pictures you originally posted show these two in place and it is the 1022I model if I'm not mistaken. All the iso chips are populated and I believe you confirmed it was the 1022I model in your post.
 
Quote

P.S. There is a downside of the "Don't turn it on, take it apart" mentality on this forum when adopted by the inexperienced, sorry.

EDIT: Yes I suspect that the resistor to the side of R59 is soldered to a bare area on the groundplane.

I have ordered Chinese electronics that have had loose/extra parts and balls of solder rolling around inside. Lots of poor soldering and cold joints as well. There is also a ton of counterfeit product floating around. Then there's real product that's supposed to be trashed because it failed QC but ends up going out the back door of the factory. Then someone does a shoty repair or just sells it and you end up with a sub par product. I just wanted to make sure everything looked ok and it looked like a legitimate board before plugging the thing into my USB port.

Thanks for your reply though, on closer inspection it does appear its intentional. Hopefully it was the Owon factory that did the mod. I'll do some tests and post back if I have any issues.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: KNO3- on February 08, 2016, 12:04:31 pm
This is the 1kHz wave form from the signal output on the scope. Looks pretty good to me, not a whole lot of noise. Maybe I was worrying about nothing.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: KNO3- on February 08, 2016, 12:28:33 pm
Here's line voltage AC in the house. Everything seems to be fine with this unit.  :phew: I'm also very impressed with the software UI, it's better than I expected. The measurement tools are pretty helpful and quite easy to use. Seems like the software has quite a few useful features. So far I haven't found anything really annoying to use.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 08, 2016, 12:32:22 pm
Quote
Of course I tried it and there are no tamper seals. But just because it seems to work doesn't necessarily mean it's working properly or going to keep working as it is. Or maybe some setting i try in the future doesn't work. Although since this is related to the USB connection that's probably unlikely.

Ah, ok, you did test it, good. From your initial post it really didn't read that way, especially when you were talking about 'just returning it or trying to repair it'.

Quote
I didn't expect the board to be fully populated, there are lots of other areas not populated. The only reason I was curious about these two resistors is the pictures you originally posted show these two in place and it is the 1022I model if I'm not mistaken. All the iso chips are populated and I believe you confirmed it was the 1022I model in your post.

My mistake - it was actually me who added those resistors (and forgot). I like to provide a discharge path, even on Isolated equipment, if only to avoid the risk of static buildup. I used 2 x 10M resistors if I remember correctly. Purely a personal choice though.

Quote
I have ordered Chinese electronics that have had loose/extra parts and balls of solder rolling around inside. Lots of poor soldering and cold joints as well. There is also a ton of counterfeit product floating around. Then there's real product that's supposed to be trashed because it failed QC but ends up going out the back door of the factory. Then someone does a shoty repair or just sells it and you end up with a sub par product. I just wanted to make sure everything looked ok and it looked like a legitimate board before plugging the thing into my USB port.

I'm glad to say that no one appears to have counterfeited the Owon, there probably isn't enough margin in it. They are pretty keenly priced given the BOM cost. I though you said you had tested it before taking it apart, that would imply plugging it into your USB port.  ;)  I understand your motivation though.

Quote
Thanks for your reply though, on closer inspection it does appear its intentional. Hopefully it was the Owon factory that did the mod. I'll do some tests and post back if I have any issues.

You're welcome, I hope I haven't put you off posting here, we're generally a friendly bunch (even me  :D). Yes that would be a factory mod. Owon do seem to be pretty skilled (or at least cunning) in their board mods. On my earlier rev board they managed to correct a swap in the USB signals by diagonally crossing two 0603 resistors on adjacent pads - something that would be taxing one-off, let alone on a production line!

P.S. I've just seen your trace captures, yes that looks nice, no cause for concern there. I think you'll be happy with it. If you're still worried about noise performance then you could try replicating some of the tests that I carried out for rf-loop on page 1. Hopefully yours, being a later rev board, might be quieter still.

...and yes, the UI is surprisingly good (especially for Owon, who've taken some flack previously). You might want to look at the shortcuts I identified too.





Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 08, 2016, 12:42:38 pm
I've just looked closer at your Line-voltage trace (276V P-P... ok 100Vrms). Please be very careful with that sort of measurement, I know it's USB isolated, but that doesn't mean that you won't get a very nasty belt of the case if you get the Live and Neutral swapped!  :scared:

Be aware also that the probes are low cost (but reasonably good quality) Chinese ones. They're not designed (Edit:or approved) for use on high energy circuits - domestic mains counts in this context.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: KNO3- on February 08, 2016, 01:08:02 pm

Quote
Ah, ok, you did test it, good. From your initial post it really didn't read that way, especially when you were talking about 'just returning it or trying to repair it'.

I though you said you had tested it before taking it apart, that would imply plugging it into your USB port.  ;)  I understand your motivation though.

I did take it apart before testing it and besides those resistors everything looked OK. At that point, I didn't think what I found was hazardous to my usb port, so I plugged it in and gave it a try. It did seem to work fine but I wasn't sure about those mods so that's why I posted.

Quote
You're welcome, I hope I haven't put you off posting here, we're generally a friendly bunch (even me  :D).

Not at all, I appreciate the help and I'm happy to not have to bother with a return. It's my fault anyway, it wasn't a great post. The original post was better but I think that was the fourth time I had retyped it out. Previous attempts to submit it didn't work because my picture files were too large. Lost the post three times before i figured it out  |O Sigh, anyway...I've been browsing these forums for awhile now as a guest, tons of useful information. Hadn't had a need to post anything yet because almost every question I had came up in a search.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 08, 2016, 01:27:42 pm
Quote
Previous attempts to submit it didn't work because my picture files were too large. Lost the post three times before i figured it out  |O

Been there, done that!  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: KNO3- on February 08, 2016, 01:51:15 pm
I've just looked closer at your Line-voltage trace (276V P-P... ok 100Vrms). Please be very careful with that sort of measurement, I know it's USB isolated, but that doesn't mean that you won't get a very nasty belt of the case if you get the Live and Neutral swapped!  :scared:

Be aware also that the probes are low cost (but reasonably good quality) Chinese ones. They're not designed (Edit:or approved) for use on high energy circuits - domestic mains counts in this context.

 :D Thanks for the concern. The laptop has an un-grounded cord, just as an extra precaution I pulled the AC charger anyway so it was on battery. My test leads are marked 600VDC, which i would never trust them for...but 100VAC rms i figured they'd be fine. I considered the case but neither the case, nor myself, nor anything within my reach is grounded. I also made 100% sure that the 10x prob was actually 10x. I double checked the specs on the Owon and measuring 276p-p is well within the range so long as you use the 10x. I also fused the test lead connection with a 0.5A fuse just incase something went wrong inside the Owon.

I suppose it was slightly risky but you'll notice the wave form is 100vac rms and 50Hz....kind of an odd ball utility so i couldn't resist taking a look at it.  ;)

I did say in my first post I'm a newb but to put your mind at ease I'm a certified electrician who specializes in building controls and automation. I've taken a few classes in electronics, used scopes, etc. However it's been about 6 years since I've been to school. And as far as electronics goes it was basic stuff and its been a long time. Not a whole lot of digital stuff either.

I'm always installing all these PLCs and other various controllers, networks, etc. and I've always wanted some in depth knowledge of how the electronics actually work. I've finally found the time to get into it and so far I'm really loving it.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 08, 2016, 02:10:22 pm
That's good, glad to know that you know your way around mains.  :-+

Always worth flagging anyway just in case someone really new is reading later.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: znww5 on February 12, 2016, 12:21:12 pm
Received my 1022(non I) this morning - cost including p&p was just under £56 from China via 'the bay' and took about a fortnight to get here.

So far I have:

1.     De-fluxed the PCB,
2.     Re-soldered the front-end screening to be flush with the deck
3.     Added the USB isolation chip

I'm still waiting for the PSU isolation chip to arrive, had to order it from Germany in the end as UK prices were rather silly or had huge p&p charges!


I started looking at scopes when my 30+ year old Hitachi began falling sick, so I needed another scope to help fix it and the 1022 was the obvious choice. I took a look at the various digital scopes and their software and was on the point of buying the Hantek when I found this forum. Having read this thread it was obvious that the 1022 was a no-brainer.

Given the price, the 1022 has vastly more functionality than the £48 LCD kits you can find and is ideal for the mainly LF/MF RF analogue stuff which I deal with - I particularly like the variable persistence facility. In all probability I will end up using this more than the old CRT scope, with most of the processing being done on-board, the host PC requirements are quite light - so you could just take the 1022, probes and CD to use with somebody elses PC.  It is also refreshing not having to wait 15 or 20 minutes for the scope to stabilse, or nurse a hernia heaving a CRT scope around !

The only thing I would like is a short-cut to the Self-Cal function, I can't seem to find that. Other than that, very pleased with what is a very useable scope for a laughably small amount of money.

Thanks again to all who contributed to this thread, it was invaluable.

David




Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 13, 2016, 08:50:20 am
Well that was pretty good going for your first morning of ownership!  :-+

Interesting that you're going straight for USB isolation, mind you non-isolated for <£56 is a bit of a no-brainer. It will probably be helpful for others with their buying decisions if you can document your conversion cost... and maybe parts suppliers.

I'll look for a self-cal shortcut, I haven't found one yet.

Check the Owon site too to make sure you've got the latest version of the S/W.

http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175 (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175)

Glad we've been some help anyway.  :)

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: plazma on February 13, 2016, 01:38:20 pm
The price difference between the VDS1022 and isolated VDS1022I is only 17£. Is it not better to buy the isolated version than modifying the non isolated?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: znww5 on February 14, 2016, 10:24:01 pm
Re: the isolating components, I couldn't agree more - the extra £17 for the isolated version  is well worth it - however being a PC scope newbie, light only dawned after I had ordered the non-isolated unit.

By the time I have finished, my modified unit will have cost pretty much the same as the (I) version - still its only a bit of soldering!

As for parts, the USB data isolator was easy - next day delivery for £5.71 from radio spares - RS stock code 7969041

The tricky component was the power supply isolator (DCP020505U); it was either a very silly price or had the wrong pin configuration, or occasionally both. In the end I sourced one from a supplier in Germany via 'the bay'. Delivered cost is 12.90 Euros, ie around £10, item number  311151940664. There were a couple still available a few minutes ago when I checked, mine is due in a couple of days.

So as you can see, I 'saved' the princely sum of £1.29 . . . Barbados, here I come  :)

Thanks for the heads-up regarding the software Gyro, worth mentioning, but as it happened I had taken a look at the software for the two contenders, so it was sitting here on the PC before the 1022 even left China - how sad is that!

The only thing I would add for the benefit of anyone considering the upgrade (and I quite possibly missed this when reading the thread) is to mention that 6 of the 8 zero ohm resistors which need to be removed  live on the topside of the board - the other 2 can be found on the under side. Obvious when you know, but it had me scratching my head for a couple of minutes.  :palm:

David






Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: blueskull on February 14, 2016, 10:49:24 pm
TI miniature power isolators are NOT rated for operating as a high voltage isolating device.
They're designed to withstand HiPot test at 1kV/1.5kV, not operating at any significant voltage.
In fact, they are rated to operate at only SELV, which is 60V.

Using these devices on a PC oscilloscope is a design mistake.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 15, 2016, 10:00:05 am
Quote
Using these devices on a PC oscilloscope is a design mistake.

I'm not sure I would agree with that. The purpose of USB Isolation is to break the ground loop with the PC / mains ground and so to provide ground protection and improved noise rejection.

It's very rare that you would actually want to float the scope ground at an significantly high voltage... and if so, you would need to take other special precautions like insulating the case.  The DC-DC is rated for the SELV that would apply in safe usage and has a healthy HiPot rating (as does the USB isolator). You need to start looking very carefully at PCB creepage and clearance to think of using a scope above SELV.

@znww5: Thanks for posting the costings. Yes probably not worth the cost saving but very useful for retrofitting isolation at a later date (you just happen to have done it rather sooner than normal!  ;D ).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 20, 2016, 01:19:54 pm
I've noticed that there's a new version of the VDS1022 PC software on the Owon site, Version 1.0.23, dated 29th April 2016 (the previous one was version 1.0.11). I've downloaded and tried it and it seems to work fine. I haven't noticed any specific changes, although the response of the menu system definitely seems faster. Unfortunately there is no revision history provided.

It's always worth keeping a copy of the previous version installation file of course.

http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175 (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175)

P.S. I've also noticed that the s/w supports SCPI protocol for remote control, not sure how long that's been there.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: samsagaz on June 06, 2016, 06:24:18 pm
Nice review! Btw, will this small oscilloscope be OK to measure and design simple audio amps? will be OK to check amplifier stages distortions and  see how looks the amplifier wave?

i used some old tektronix in the past, but i sell all my units because money problems. Now i want to purchase it again but as im not in the USA impossible to purchase used ones from ebay, so im looking some small (to save shippings fee to Argentina) that help me with simple audio gears :)

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 08, 2016, 01:02:22 pm
Thanks samsagaz  :)

Yes sure, it will do a fine job visually checking audio signals for distortion, in much the same way as you would use an analogue scope (not sure if the Tek ones that you were referring to were analogue or digital). You can look for clipping, crossover distortions etc. If you get the USB isolated 'i' version you can avoid ground loops too.

You should note however that it is an 8 bit resolution scope (as are most DSOs, Rigol etc.) so you can't expect to measure low distortions using the FFT function. For high resolution distortion measurements you would need a 12 (or better, 16) bit scope. These are obviously in a different price range, but you could maybe also consider the Digilent Analog Discovery which I think is 12 bit. You could improve this situation by building a notch filter (Twin-T or similar) to attenuate the fundamental frequency of your test signal, so that you only see at the distortion products.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: jopereira on June 08, 2016, 03:27:53 pm
OWON also have a 12bit scope (new in the range).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: samsagaz on June 08, 2016, 07:25:33 pm
yeah, but dont have too much money :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: fourtytwo on June 15, 2016, 06:32:19 pm
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have just bought one of these largely based on this review (being the only one I found)

OK it works BUT!!!!! any timebase setting slower than 50mS/div gets the following warning from the trigger system.......

"When the time per divider longer than 100ms, trigger will be set default as auto mode."

And sure enough it wont lock the display just like an untriggered waveform in auto, even single shot doesn't work!!  In a word, useless!!

I have mailed Owon today, if I ever get a reply I will be sure to let you know.

This is not mentioned in there product specs or manuals anywhere.

So Sad, did I just half waste the £90 it cost me :(
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 15, 2016, 08:26:12 pm
Hi Roger and welcome to the forum,

Sorry if I missed something in my review. I haven't had cause to use mine at 100ms/div or slower and have never seen that message. I've just tried it and seen what you mean. No one else seems to have flagged it either. I can't think why that would be, clearly not a handling speed problem, the main concern on USB scopes is whether they can reliably handle their maximum rated speeds. I've just been back through my collection of earlier s/w versions (never throw anything away) and it doesn't appear to be a newly introduced issue.

At least at those sort of timebase settings you shouldn't have any difficulty following the trace, I agree though that the absence of single trigger at those settings is an issue. It does sound as if it is for your application.

The last s/w version that I have seen was released at the end of April (one thing that would be helpful would be a revision history since it jumped a few versions since the previous one), so it appears to be still in active development (and they have fixed an issue I reported just before Christmas). Please do report back on what the respond with. I may well report it too, strength in numbers and I don't like unnecessary restrictions.

P.S. I understand that you're a bit p**'d off, but the "!!!!WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!!!" seems a bit over the top, don't you think?


Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: tautech on June 15, 2016, 08:47:37 pm
Isn't this just going into Roll mode, the addition of Roll in the UI having been lost in translation?  :-//
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 15, 2016, 08:51:09 pm
Could be. I only tried the S/W setting with the scope unplugged as I'm not in the 'playroom' at the moment.

Edit: It would still be helpful if the single trigger worked, I can't think of a reason why it couldn't.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: tautech on June 15, 2016, 08:56:44 pm
Could be. I only tried the S/W setting with the scope unplugged as I'm not in the 'playroom' at the moment.

Edit: It would still be helpful if the single trigger worked, I can't think of a reason why it couldn't.
Yes, of course.
It still might if selected before slowing the timebase. This you need to check.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 15, 2016, 08:59:40 pm
Nope, it does lock it out.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: tautech on June 15, 2016, 09:10:35 pm
Nope, it does lock it out.
Ok, if that's how the UI works on this DSO, do we now call it user error, a different implementation of triggering in the slow timebases or a bug?  :-//
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 15, 2016, 09:27:46 pm
Hmm, good question. I don't know how other DSOs do it.  :-// It doesn't seem like something to get all emotional about though.

I've just tried sending a question to the direct email that Owon were using to communicate with me when I reported a bug back in January. Maybe they will come back with something, or maybe even come in with a technical support rather than sales post, who knows.

Edit: Actually I do know how Picoscope do it, they offer a choice of scroll or refresh display, but they're in a different price bracket.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: fourtytwo on June 16, 2016, 09:24:22 am
Hello, thanks for the replies! I think WARNING is fair given the scope has a fault!
If the triggering system doesn't work above 50mS/div it should say so in the spec.

Thank you for your rollback testing, this was most unexpected to me as I cannot see why they have a problem.

It is not unusual to use single shot at low speeds to capture events, even my 35yo 465 will happily trigger at its slowest timebase setting of 500mS/div and very useful too however its not a DSO.

Roll mode if you like to call it that is of no use whatsoever for random event capture unless you want to stare at the screen forever AND the display is still not precisely located around the event (due to variable human reaction time!).

Here's hoping they can fix it :)
Roger
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 16, 2016, 09:47:13 am
Hi Roger,

I guess it depends on situation, for some things a chart recorder type display might be preferable, personally I would prefer both options, I use an old Picoscope ADC216 for such applications (mainly because it's 16 bit so more applicable to slower, more accurate trend measurements).

Quote
I think WARNING is fair given the scope has a fault!

I guess we'll agree to differ on that one  ;) (edit): A warning sure, but "WARNING WARNING WARNING" (four dozen exclamation marks deleted)? Nah. Coming into a forum shouting and stomping doesn't usually create a good first impression. It doesn't look like a 'fault' as such, more an implementation decision, as tautech implied. Faults don't normally put up explanatory messages. As I said before, I'd like to see single trace trigger work, in conjunction with trigger position obviously so that you could see pre, post trigger information or both.

I had a reply from the previously helpful lady at Owon this morning...

Quote
I'm sorry,this feature is temporarily does not support, I have put this question feedback to our engineer,we will try to improve.
Thank  you !

The 'temporarily' gives some grounds for hope.  :)

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: fourtytwo on June 16, 2016, 06:31:29 pm
Coming into a forum shouting and stomping doesn't usually create a good first impression.

I really couldn't care less what you think, I only signed in here to warn others who may be considering this product. Ban me or delete me I couldn't give a shit!!

As for you attitude that it may not be faulty, I hope you enjoy your next purchase that doesnt work to its published specification in some way that's important to you!

Goodbye and good riddance.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 16, 2016, 06:54:41 pm
At least I remained calm in the face of someone apparently citing my review as the reason for 'wasting' 45 quid and also tried to help you by submitting my own request to Owon in support of yours.

Maybe you could have hung around and contributed something positive to the forum.

Such is life I guess. ::)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: tautech on June 16, 2016, 08:01:05 pm
At least I remained calm in the face of someone apparently citing my review as the reason for 'wasting' 45 quid and also tried to help you by submitting my own request to Owon in support of yours.

Maybe you could have hung around and contributed something positive to the forum.

Such is life I guess. ::)
Right you did too.  :-+
You can point some in the right direction but they just don't get it.  ::)

My hint was Roll mode and Google would've provided him with the explanation he need to understand a modern DSO.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: jopereira on June 16, 2016, 08:22:23 pm
@gyro
I cancelled an Hantek 6022 order and bought this DSO after reading your review and others comments. You'll be responsible for my choice too as I'll have the best DSO money can buy in this price range.  ;)
Keep your contributions, they have helped many.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Glapsvin on July 11, 2016, 12:46:38 am
Thank you all for all the hard work to create this review.  I just ordered 1022I and can't wait to get my hands on it.
I'm very surprised how little information is available about that osciloscope.  :) if I run into anything not yet covered in the thread I will post it.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 11, 2016, 10:41:07 am
@Glapsvin and jopereira,

Welcome to you both.Yes, please do report back on your experiences. It's always good to be able to add to the combined store of knowledge. As you say, apart from this thread there is very little information out there so the more feedback the better.   :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: pascal_sweden on July 11, 2016, 11:38:53 am
I am sure that the Owon USB scope is miles better, faster and more robust, than the SmartScope from LabNation!

See my separate thread about the SmartScope from LabNation.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: goldjohn on July 11, 2016, 12:31:35 pm
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have just bought one of these largely based on this review (being the only one I found)

OK it works BUT!!!!! any timebase setting slower than 50mS/div gets the following warning from the trigger system.......

"When the time per divider longer than 100ms, trigger will be set default as auto mode."

And sure enough it wont lock the display just like an untriggered waveform in auto, even single shot doesn't work!!  In a word, useless!!

I have mailed Owon today, if I ever get a reply I will be sure to let you know.

This is not mentioned in there product specs or manuals anywhere.

So Sad, did I just half waste the £90 it cost me :(
You could always try screen capture software, which seems to work quite well, at least for mypurposes

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 11, 2016, 07:17:50 pm
Hi goldjohn,

Sadly fourtytwo has long since left the building but your idea is a good one... although you would need to be there to witness the event.

You've reminded me to give Owon another poke (mentioning eevblog of course) about adding slower than 100ms/div single triggering. We'll see if there's any news, it's good to keep the pressure on anyway.



Edit: I get the impression that you're not a fan of the LabNation SmartScope, Pascal. :(   Maybe it would be useful to start a thread on it. :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: ralphrmartin on July 18, 2016, 07:18:16 pm
Quick question about this scope. The isolation means that it is not connected to the USB ground, BUT the input channels still both share a common ground, right? Am I correct in assuming the input channels are NOT isolated from each other?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 18, 2016, 09:15:17 pm
Hi Ralph,

Yes, your assumption is correct, the Ground isolation takes place at the USB interface so the grounds of the two inputs are common.

Chris

P.S. Just a note that this is intended as galvanic isolation from the PC ground, so appropriate safety precautions need to be taken if floating the input grounds at elevated voltages, eg. avoiding contact with the metal case.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Hofabooz on August 08, 2016, 11:39:23 am
Hi All

First post of the forum and I would like to thank Gryo Mark O and all other s who have posted on this thread.
I'm looking for my first scope as I have just stated to learn about digital electronics after not making any thing for years.
I had looked at the Hantek and others but the information contained in this thread has helped me decide to order the OWON VDS1022I.
Please advise if I'm missing something may main work will be with Arduino and Radio control systems my understanding is that this Digital scope should be fine for the speeds required and sample rate for my areas of interest.

Many thanks for your information in this thread. :-+ :-+

Regards

Mark
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 08, 2016, 07:34:24 pm
Hi Hofabooz,

Welcome aboard.  :)

It sounds as if the Owon will be capable of what you are describing. You need to remember that you are looking at a 100Msps sampling with an analogue SINE WAVE capability of 25MHz. Input rise time is spec'd at <14ns. What this means in practice is that you will be able to get a reasonable representation of a square wave of about a third of that, say, 8-10MHz. That sounds fine for standard RC servos and s/w toggled Arduino pins etc.

Hopefully I don't need to point out that for (rather) more money you could get a much more capable benchtop scope like the Rigol DS1054Z, but presumably you've taken that into account in your available budget. It's a shame the Pound has dropped, which is being reflected in prices of Chinese gear.

I would recommend that you also pick up one of those very cheap 8 bit logic analysers off ebay (preferably using it legally with open-source Sigrok Software). That would add very useful protocol decoding for serial I2C SPI (and PWM I think) to your test capabilities. The two in combination would give you a reasonable (but of course bandwidth limited) test setup.

Hope this helps,

Chris.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Hofabooz on August 08, 2016, 08:36:19 pm
Hi Chris


Thanks for the info I had looked at the Rigol and thought it was a very good piece of kit for the money however I did think the Owon would do most of what I wanted.
Would you recommend waiting a bit longer and saving up for the Rigol as I have patience and can wait a while longer for a scope as I have not owned one for a long time and having just stated with the Arduino platform felt I could do with one as programing a theory is all ok but when it meets the real world all can not bas as you think hence the thought of getting a scope.
Please advise.

Thanks Mark
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 08, 2016, 08:55:01 pm
Hi Mark,

Doh! You had to ask that question.  :palm: ...and on your second post too!  :D

Yes, I suspect that a majority of people on here would say (I can here the rattle of keyboards) that it would be better to wait and save for the Rigol, and they're probably right. At the end of the day I guess only you can answer that question for your particular situation.

Whatever you do, I'd probably go for the ebay logic analyser anyway. Even if you wait and go for the Rigol, it's so cheap that it's a no-brainer and will probably give you better protocol decoding with minimal function overlap and 8 channels.

Chris.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Hofabooz on August 08, 2016, 09:58:59 pm
Hi chris

Thanks I will order the logic analyser and save some more for the scope sorry to ask the question but you know how it is sometimes you buy cheap and buy three times other times you can get away with it in this case I will wait and save as I think the  rial with serve for a long time.

Thanks mark
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: plazma on August 09, 2016, 06:11:19 am
If you are loking for a logic analyzer this version worked as specified and is supported by Sigrok (and Saleae SW).
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-Logic-Analyzer-100M-max-sample-rate-16Channels-10B-samples-MCU-ARM-FPGA-debug-tool/1916810169.html
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 09, 2016, 09:04:23 am
Hi chris

Thanks I will order the logic analyser and save some more for the scope sorry to ask the question but you know how it is sometimes you buy cheap and buy three times other times you can get away with it in this case I will wait and save as I think the  rial with serve for a long time.

Thanks mark

Hi Mark,

Don't worry about the question, it's just one that comes up rather often  :). If you've got, or will have, the funds to go for the Rigol then it's undoubtedly the right thing to do. Most people buying the Owon do so because they can't fund or justify anything more expensive (or have some other specific requirement, eg, it's got to fit in the toolbag and you're already carying a laptop).

Good decision on the LA. If you want one locally then Hobby components on ebay has it...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hobby-Components-UK-USB-24M-8CH-24MHz-Logic-Analyser-/161309221423?hash=item258ec7622f:g:qmkAAOSwiLdV7wWY (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hobby-Components-UK-USB-24M-8CH-24MHz-Logic-Analyser-/161309221423?hash=item258ec7622f:g:qmkAAOSwiLdV7wWY)

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Hofabooz on August 10, 2016, 08:40:01 am
Hi Chris

many thanks for the info item ordered.
I like the look of the interface and it will be most useful suspect I will make the most use of it initially.
As I have some issue with a serial data transfer via blue tooth between to Arduinos.
This item will be most useful in understanding the issues I'm having.

Thanks again

Regards

Mark 
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Radioman55 on September 14, 2016, 01:08:10 am
Hello!  First post on this forum, and heartfelt thanks to all for the discussion on this scope. It has cleared the air on so many questions that I had.  I have been refurbishing/restoring radios from the 30's through the 50's.  I've never used a scope but have had the desire to purchase one and learn how to use it, but do not want to spend an arm and a leg.  I do have a boat anchor (Sencore) scope which weighs 35-40 pounds, but like someone else in this topic, am not interested in acquiring a hernia this late in life.  To the point: what is the max input  voltage for the VDS1022I?  While I have a perefectly good VTVM and DVM to measure B+ from the power supplies, there will be times where I want to view a waveform or measure a frequency that may have upwards of 100V.  Will this scope do that?  I plan on using it with an old WIN 7 laptop.   Again, thanks to all who have contributed with your time!  Joe
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Dan` on September 14, 2016, 01:56:52 am
from the specs page http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175#sthash.M9FXzMQ5.0rImWmWH.dpbs (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175#sthash.M9FXzMQ5.0rImWmWH.dpbs)

for the 22I

Quote
Max Input Voltage 400V (PK - PK) (DC+AC, PK - PK)

and for the 22 (non isolated version)

Quote
Max Input Voltage 40V (PK - PK) (DC+AC, PK - PK)

but im only new to this (only got mine a couple weeks ago) and this may be down to the probes specs? i bought the non isolated version because il only be using it off an old win7 laptop for 12v vehicle stuff.

HTH
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on September 14, 2016, 09:58:43 am
Welcome.

The input voltage spec is a little confusing, as the only difference between the non-I and the I is the USB isolation which is in the 'back-end' of the scope. The input sections are identical as far as I know. I suspect that the 400V spec is partly related to the USB isolation rating.

On that basis I would take the input voltage rating to be 40V (PK - PK) (DC+AC, PK - PK) relative to the ground clips for both. The scopes come with x10 scope probes which should extend the input range to 400V. I say 'should', because it's always a good idea  be wary of the insulation of low cost Chinese scope probes.

It sounds as if you're well versed in handling this sort of stuff with your sencore, but if you're doing tube HT stuff then getting a couple of x100 probes is always a good idea (whatever your scope).

Chris

P.S. If you're working on '30s to 50's radios then it's very likely that a lot of them are 'live chassis' (no mains transformer). Clearly this is a big hazard when connecting grounded test gear. I mains isolation transformer is probably the best way to make your setup safe - USB isolation (while breaking the ground loop) doesn't guarantee your safety as you can still touch live parts.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Radioman55 on September 15, 2016, 12:30:05 am
Thank you Dan & Chris.  I've never used the Sencore I have as it looked so daunting and it weighs more than my Mazda!  I hadn't thought about getting the x100 probes; I'll do just that.  The measure of safety will be worth the cost, as will an iso transformer which is on my short list of equipment needs.  I have generally been renovating non-AA5 radios, but I really do need to invest the iso transformer.  It would be kinda' nice living through my next 60 years. ;)   Chris, thank you for sharing your time and expertise in this, and so many other, posts.  :-+  It is great to have this site as a source for equipment/electronic reference, and all-round good conversation.  Cheers!

Joe
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on September 15, 2016, 08:50:34 am
Thank you Joe. Pleased to be able to help.  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: acediac on September 26, 2016, 06:27:33 am
This oscilloscope seems so much better designed and built than the Hantek, but what a pity there is no software interface support for linux or other platforms  :-- Why won't these manufacturers learn that if they put out a good quality but reasonably priced product with the versatility of providing linux / open source drivers, then they don't even need to put a lot of effort into the user interface because the community will develop far better tools at no cost to them, plus extend the longevity of the product by sidestepping operating system obsolesence, PLUS generate a huge grassroots demand for their hardware which is effectively free marketing?  |O

I really want to buy this over the Hantek but at the end of the day, this product is doomed to have a limited life because it won't be updated for some version of windows in the near future.

There seems to be some old drivers for OWON oscilloscopes, but from what I understand, those are for the benchtop models, correct me if I'm wrong?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Radioman55 on October 16, 2016, 11:53:05 am
Hello!  It has been a while since I've dabbled in Linux, but I recall that there is a program called 'Wine' at winehq.org which states it "is a compatibility layer capable of running Windows applications on several POSIX-compliant operating systems, such as Linux, Mac OSX, & BSD."  This might be what you're looking for.  Hope that helps!  Joe
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on October 16, 2016, 06:47:47 pm
I agree, it's a shame Owon don't seem to know the first thing about exploiting opportunities to expand the usefulness and therefore sales volume of these products. The VDS series seem to have lacked wider takeup because of this while the inferior Hantek H/W has a much wider following. The ironic thing is that Owon probably use linux in their benchtop scopes.  :-//

Yes, I suspect that it would probably work fine under Wine, Joe. Perhaps somebody can try it with the Owon PC software from their website. This wouldn't confirm the device interface of course. Anyone already using one on a linux machine?

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Capiten on October 18, 2016, 02:19:07 pm
Hi! Anyone nows if it works well in windows 10? I contacted a seller and he said it doesn't but some users claim it does, you just have to install drivers trough 'device manager'.
Thank you all.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: goldjohn on November 12, 2016, 04:30:20 pm
Hi! Anyone nows if it works well in windows 10? I contacted a seller and he said it doesn't but some users claim it does, you just have to install drivers trough 'device manager'.
Thank you all.
It works for me, without any issues.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ultrawipf on December 11, 2016, 09:44:40 pm
I think about getting this (vds1022I) scope until i can afford something serious and its a shame there is so little documentation and almost no experiences about it.
The software looks better compared to other usb scopes and i already downloaded it to look at the functions and the files.
It looks like it runs in java and there are several *source.jar files in the plugins directory, which do contain .java source files.
Maybe it can give some hints on how to interface the scopes.
I wonder if they accidentially included their source code in the program?  :-DD

Can someone take a look at the program (VDS_C2) and the files in the plugins directory to see if that might be a possibility to interface those scopes or if the files are worthless?
Especially the "com.owon.vds.foundation.source_1.0.0.jar" looks like it contains the usb communication stuff and most of the functions of the program.
The "org.eclipse.equinox.launcher_1.3.0.v20120522-1813.jar" is what actually starts the whole program and can be run directly. Sadly it seems like no source for this exists, but it looks like it only loads other parts of the program.


*edit*
Tried to rebuild some classes using the sources i found and it seems possible.
(http://i.imgur.com/0bvCP0ul.png) (http://i.imgur.com/0bvCP0u.png)

Also as the program is java it runs perfectly fine under linux if you don't use the launcher but i am not sure what the launcher actually does and how hard it is to actually get the scope running under linux.
(http://i.imgur.com/SkPS0z6l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/SkPS0z6.jpg)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 12, 2016, 09:22:50 pm
Welcome to the forum  :)

Quote
Also as the program is java it runs perfectly fine under linux if you don't use the launcher but i am not sure what the launcher actually does and how hard it is to actually get the scope running under linux.

Now that's an interesting finding.  The problem of only running under windows has put some people off in the past, as has not being able to use the device at low level. The FPGA file is included as a .bin in the installation folder so that isn't a problem. Maybe you can achieve something good here.  :-+

P.S. Sadly I'm not a Linux or Java expert!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: superpete on December 13, 2016, 03:58:50 am
Especially the "com.owon.vds.foundation.source_1.0.0.jar" looks like it contains the usb communication stuff and most of the functions of the program.

I haven't got this scope yet (only found out about it from Dave's last video), but thought I'd look at the software.

The driver looks like it's just plain LibUSB and everything is implemented over a java-wrapper to the LibUSB API (there's even the .so library incuded). Now I'm not a linux guru, so not sure how you load libusb for a specific device, but if you can do that then the java app should just run.

I'm amazed they've included the source - probably a very good idea to archive it.

Everything else is standard libraries (ie https://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_Launcher). All the source you need seems to be included in the source.jar files!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 14, 2016, 09:39:24 pm
Even more encouraging.  :-+

Ok, so anyone know how I can make simple edits the .jar source files (and build?) in a windows environment? I'd love to be able to change the save button to save image rather than .txt and maybe add a few more shortcuts. Maybe a few other tweaks here and there.

(I have no java knowledge whatsoever!)

EDIT: Ah ok, after a bit of searching, .jar is an archive and 7zip is my friend. I now know one thing about Java.  :D
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ultrawipf on December 15, 2016, 03:00:51 pm
Ok, so anyone know how I can make simple edits the .jar source files (and build?) in a windows environment? I'd love to be able to change the save button to save image rather than .txt and maybe add a few more shortcuts. Maybe a few other tweaks here and there.
Yes that should be possible.
In my test i just compiled one class and replaced it in the original jar after loading all dependencies in eclipse, but i have currently no configuration to build everything automatically.
Sadly the program crashed when using the launcher.exe, but worked when running the launcher.jar directly from the main folder.
Probably the launcher uses the included jvm and i just used a different jdk, but it is definetly possible to just modify some parts of the program.
I have no idea how equinox works and is configured here, but it seems to be a whole environment that launches the program as i can't find any main method from the sources that could be run directly.
But there are definetly all sources we need.

The biggest problem might be the fpga under linux, but i think the main program might upload the bin file automatically. I found the FPGADownloader class that seems to send the bin file to the fpga.

Can someone who already has the scope call the *launcher*.jar in the plugins folder from the main folder where the launcher.exe is (or else it can't load all the needed files in the root folder) and force the scope to use libusb? If we are lucky that might work directly.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: ebclr on December 15, 2016, 03:25:33 pm
Your version lost USB isolation  , that is not good
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 15, 2016, 05:50:14 pm
Quote
Your version lost USB isolation  , that is not good

Not the end of the world, it can be retrofitted to the PCB if needed. The cost probably isn't much different to the price difference between the 'I' and 'non-I' but at least it can be done. See earlier posts in this thread.

The non-isolated version is really no different from a grounded scope. USB logic analyser, Hantek etc. It just needs care not to create a high current ground loop.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: ebclr on December 16, 2016, 08:53:31 am
I high recomend to do this I already burned one Picoscope, with some ground loops to mains via computer power supply
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on December 22, 2016, 01:28:34 pm
Hi Gyro & Ultrawipf,

I pushed my quick & dirty guide here:

https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022

Quick background:
I bought the scope, read some reviews that people wanted it on Mac/Linux, so got it running.

I came here and see you guys had started trying, so: Tada!

I'll be uploading an OS X 'app' package later, so you can just click-run the app.

Not tested in Linux, but I don't see a big issue for tweaks. (i'll do it later if this doesn't help.)


Dan.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 22, 2016, 01:49:52 pm
Hi CatWhisker,

Quote
Tada!
Congratulations and thank you. I'm impressed!  :-+

I'm sure this will be helpful to a number of people, especially if it really is that easy to tweak it for Linux too.


It may be worth mentioning too that the VDS series support SCPI, I haven't looked into it in any detail, but it might be useful for automated measurement functions.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ultrawipf on December 22, 2016, 04:06:29 pm
That sounds awesome and is exactly what i thought and hoped for.
I will probably also buy this scope and when it works on OS X with that script it should also run on linux, i will try that when i have the scope.
Hopefully the scope will get some more attention when it runs on linux.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: gsdn on December 22, 2016, 04:15:44 pm
Hi Gyro & Ultrawipf,

I pushed my quick & dirty guide here:

https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022

What a coincidence, I also just got it working on OSX past night (but went to sleep before posting anything). :)

Similar steps, although I simply removed libusbpp linking to get (an old version of) Libusbjava to build.

I'll be uploading an OS X 'app' package later, so you can just click-run the app.

That would be great

Not tested in Linux, but I don't see a big issue for tweaks. (i'll do it later if this doesn't help.)

Before trying on OSX, I did about the same steps (building the libs) on (Arch) Linux, but no luck. In fact, I tried on OSX primarily to confirm it would work out of Windows and it was a Linux specific issue I was hitting.

To me it seems the osciloscope has some strange behavior and the Linux kernel has issues dealing with it, so, for now, I don't think it's gonna be as easy as on OSX.

Great work!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on December 22, 2016, 07:19:22 pm
Hi Gyro & Ultrawipf,

I pushed my quick & dirty guide here:

https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022

What a coincidence, I also just got it working on OSX past night (but went to sleep before posting anything). :)

Similar steps, although I simply removed libusbpp linking to get (an old version of) Libusbjava to build.

I'll be uploading an OS X 'app' package later, so you can just click-run the app.

That would be great

Not tested in Linux, but I don't see a big issue for tweaks. (i'll do it later if this doesn't help.)

Before trying on OSX, I did about the same steps (building the libs) on (Arch) Linux, but no luck. In fact, I tried on OSX primarily to confirm it would work out of Windows and it was a Linux specific issue I was hitting.

To me it seems the osciloscope has some strange behavior and the Linux kernel has issues dealing with it, so, for now, I don't think it's gonna be as easy as on OSX.

Great work!

Haha, like a bus - these will all be coming out the woodwork!

I've tidied up the OS X App and uploaded.
This "build" doesn't need to put files anywhere like the initial script did. libUSBJava has been tweaked to look locally instead.


I'll poke at Linux when I have some time.
Last time I poked with USB and 'scopes on Linux was at Pico years ago, so no doubt it's 'different' again...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ultrawipf on December 25, 2016, 08:46:02 pm
Okay, i have the scope now and i am quite impressed how well it works even with usb 1.1
I quickly tried it on linux, but the software won't find the hardware.
Probably i need to manually create some device rules, but i have not much experience with that and how to force it to use libusb.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on December 25, 2016, 09:47:51 pm
Okay, i have the scope now and i am quite impressed how well it works even with usb 1.1
I quickly tried it on linux, but the software won't find the hardware.
Probably i need to manually create some device rules, but i have not much experience with that and how to force it to use libusb.

Been faffing in Linux all day.
I'm at the point where the app will recognise the device, but fails (times out) at sending config.
It should have write access and a quick Python script succeeds, but this is just annoying!

Some notes:
- lsusb may list the unit with another Owon device - this is purely a text string, not an existing driver. It seems Owon use one Id across most devices!
- A rule appears not to make a useful difference for testing (I'm Sudo'ing everything for now), but for a 'public' guide, is probably going to be useful.
- I removed the lsusbjava.so (wrong ELF format), and apt'd the libusbjava.

When running the app, you'll spot the terminal chatter when the device is plugged in, then fail with a timeout.

I'll have another crack at it another free day, but hopefully someone can give it some real effort.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ultrawipf on December 30, 2016, 11:32:44 pm
While digging around in the code to add some shortcuts to move the trigger position i also found a "secret" menu that you can activate by pressing ctrl+l and click on "tune"
Can anyone translate to see what that might do?
(http://i.imgur.com/WcufpG1l.png)


*edit*
oh well, looks just like some kind of configuration editor and language selection.
But i still don't know what those three tabs do differently.
The voltage selections do change the range on the scope and the calibration also just starts the self calibration just like in the main menu.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: gsdn on January 05, 2017, 07:55:54 am
I quickly tried it on linux, but the software won't find the hardware.
Without the actual message I can't be sure, but IIRC I saw such a message be thrown due to another problem (missing libraries, permissions... I can't remember).

Probably i need to manually create some device rules, but i have not much experience with that and how to force it to use libusb.
That (I'm guessing you mean the equivalent of the windows step of associating the device with the libusb-win32 driver) is not needed, just adequate permissions and the properly working libs.

Been faffing in Linux all day.
I'm at the point where the app will recognise the device, but fails (times out) at sending config.
This is the point I got too, before testing in the Mac. If you look at dmesg output, there should be a few "USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed" messages.

It should have write access and a quick Python script succeeds, but this is just annoying!
What does your Python script do?


Some notes:
- lsusb may list the unit with another Owon device - this is purely a text string, not an existing driver. It seems Owon use one Id across most devices!
- A rule appears not to make a useful difference for testing (I'm Sudo'ing everything for now), but for a 'public' guide, is probably going to be useful.
- I removed the lsusbjava.so (wrong ELF format), and apt'd the libusbjava.
The provided libusbJava.so is built for 32bit systems, are you using a 64bit system?

So far, apart from the Mac, in which we already know it works, I've tried:
1) a 64bit Linux (Arch) system with a recent kernel: timeout errors ("USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed ...") early in the device initialization progress.
2) a 32bit Linux (Centos) with an old (2.6) kernel running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: same as 1).
3) a 64bit FreeBSD 11 running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: didn't work, then worked 1 or 2 times, then never again; even not working, it gets further in the device initialization progress than Linux, the last message shown in the terminal, before stalling, is "+6250 bytes MCU:getFrame 14".
4) same 64bit FreeBSD 11 system running on actual hardware: same results as 3).

I have no idea what made it work once (or twice) in FreeBSD, but it did. it seems this device has some weird USB behavior... after trying to use it in FreeBSD/Linux, it locks the boot process of my notebook (which proceeds promptly after unplugging the device), booting with it plugged in sometimes also prevents Linux from recognizing my wireless keyboard/mouse usb receiver (which also proceeds to work promptly after unplugging it)...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: JustMac on January 06, 2017, 02:27:32 am
I note that Saelig is having a clearance sale on these ATM. It is the non-I model unfortunately. I've decided that I'm tired of borrowing a Tek from work and one of these is probably enough for 95% of my needs (for the other 5%, I'm back to borrowing from work). I'm a bit concerned about the 5kSa capture but for these $s ($84) I'll see what I see. I've just got to come up with $16 (or more if I bother with the EEVblog discount) of other (needed  ;) ) stuff to get the free shipping.

I recall that early on in this thread there was some discussion on the USB hardware installed, 1.1 vs 2.0, in the I vs non-I variants. Did that ever get resolved ? Are they all USB 1.1 hardware, just that the non-I is missing a couple of ICs ? I believe that sticking to 1.1 speed it's about $20 (US) to make the upgrade.

I also sorta recall a comment (perhaps not in this thread) that all the OWON PC scopes push their data to the PC differently from others, and that's why they don't make for good data streamers. That the captured waveform is spit across the USB link as a file ? Even in continuous (vs single shot) mode ?? Does anyone know or am I misfiring a neuron (again) ?

I ask the above because I have a goofy idea on another way to isolate the scope. My thought was to use a cheap ARM SoC board (perhaps an RPi) to talk via USB to the scope. The pair are powered by the ubiquitous wallwart, which is general isolated from the mains. The link to the client software on the PC is then done via WiFi. This would mean some custom software on the ARM board to play  mailman between WiFi and USB. And some more mods to the client software. I'm sure a real software person (not I) could do it in an hour !  >:D And if the speeds are really 1.1, the additional lag may be unnoticeable. I recall other posters saying it's already somewhat laggy. In return you get isolation and freedom from yet another USB cable dragging across the workbench.

Of course the whole scheme may be goofy but I figured I'd toss it out there and let people pull on it's wings.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: rch on January 06, 2017, 10:06:16 am
Apparently USB opto-isolators are a thing.  I didn't know that, but this is just an example from Google of a fairly reputable sounding one.

http://uk.farnell.com/olimex/usb-iso/usb-isolator-1000vdc-for-pc-laptop/dp/1795095?mckv=fvKfxZhD_dc (http://uk.farnell.com/olimex/usb-iso/usb-isolator-1000vdc-for-pc-laptop/dp/1795095?mckv=fvKfxZhD_dc)|pcrid|78108470709|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-131293226229&CAAGID=20220744309&CMP=KNC-GUK-GEN-SHOPPING-OLIMEX&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CKiy19mhrdECFW4A0wodOisBqQ&DM_PersistentCookieCreated=true&CAWELAID=120173390000303585
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: JustMac on January 06, 2017, 08:13:18 pm
Yup, I've seen USB 2 isolated cables for about $50 (US). And Adafruit sells a isolator for USB 1.x for about $35, though it's a bit shy on current for this usage. (https://www.adafruit.com/product/2107 (https://www.adafruit.com/product/2107)) Linear Tech sells a USB 2 isolator IC, which Mouser and Digikey carry for about $30. You'd then have to come up with the PCB to mount it and associated connectors & cabling.

So there are solutions for people who want to isolate a non-I version w/o opening it up, it really depends on what speed it runs at (hence my question above).

My goofy idea above was birthed by looking for a "fair" entry level logic analyzer. I ran across a one-off project that used a Beaglebone Black (with it's PRUs and onboard RAM) to do a good job of capturing data but with real triggering and deep memory, something the $20 streamers can't do. Because it's another single board Linux machine, it could even run sigrok-client and with an added display and keyboard, be it's own little stand alone LA. No doubt better, in some regards, than the ones I started with decades ago.

Conceivably you could do a similar thing with my goofy proposal above to make it stand alone, but the added cost of a display and buttons and encoders, etc, etc would soon be enough that you could buy a better, budget, "real" benchtop DSO for just a bit more. YMMV. Just to isolate and make it wireless might run about $30 added (plus time to code), only slightly more $s than adding the 2 ICs mentioned in prior posts. When mine arrives I'll be better able to see if the idea has any merit.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 06, 2017, 08:34:46 pm
Apparently USB opto-isolators are a thing.  I didn't know that, but this is just an example from Google of a fairly reputable sounding one.

http://uk.farnell.com/olimex/usb-iso/usb-isolator-1000vdc-for-pc-laptop/dp/1795095?mckv=fvKfxZhD_dc (http://uk.farnell.com/olimex/usb-iso/usb-isolator-1000vdc-for-pc-laptop/dp/1795095?mckv=fvKfxZhD_dc)|pcrid|78108470709|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-131293226229&CAAGID=20220744309&CMP=KNC-GUK-GEN-SHOPPING-OLIMEX&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CKiy19mhrdECFW4A0wodOisBqQ&DM_PersistentCookieCreated=true&CAWELAID=120173390000303585

Actually, isolators but not opto-isolators. They use on-chip (or at least in package) inductive coupling. They're pretty much all based on the Analog Devices ADUM4160...

http://www.analog.com/en/products/interface-isolation/isolation/standard-digital-isolators/adum4160.html (http://www.analog.com/en/products/interface-isolation/isolation/standard-digital-isolators/adum4160.html)

Note that these USB isolator products state USB2.0 compliance but when you look closer, their maximum supported speed is USB Full Speed (12Mbps) not USB2 High speed (480Mbps). This works with the VDS1022(I) because of its high level of front end processing and also things like USB audio DACs, but won't work with the Hantek, simple USB logic analysers etc. because their USB streaming needs USB High Speed to get enough throughput.

You also need to get enough power across the isolation barrier to power the device, either with an isolated DC-DC converter or external PSU. A lot of the off the shelf USB isolators are only good for 100mA.

I have seen one recent reference to a USB2 High Speed isolator but the links to the company and Silicon are dead.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 06, 2017, 08:52:02 pm
I recall that early on in this thread there was some discussion on the USB hardware installed, 1.1 vs 2.0, in the I vs non-I variants. Did that ever get resolved ? Are they all USB 1.1 hardware, just that the non-I is missing a couple of ICs ? I believe that sticking to 1.1 speed it's about $20 (US) to make the upgrade.

Yes it was resolved, they both use USB Full Speed (12Mbps) and so are compliant with both USB1.1 and USB2.0 (again at Full speed, not High). The AD USB isolator chip is 'software transparent' so they both use the same driver and on-board code.

Quote
I also sorta recall a comment (perhaps not in this thread) that all the OWON PC scopes push their data to the PC differently from others, and that's why they don't make for good data streamers. That the captured waveform is spit across the USB link as a file ? Even in continuous (vs single shot) mode ?? Does anyone know or am I misfiring a neuron (again) ?

Yes, there's a lot more going on - there's an on board ARM CPU and FPGA rather than just a Cypress 8051 based EZ-USB micro. All the triggering etc is handled on-board rather than having to be done by the PC S/W in real time so all it needs to pump across the interface is display data rather than raw samples.

Yes, you can retrofit the parts, I'm not sure about the current cost. ADUM4160s are relatively easy to source, the more difficult part is probably the TI isolated DC-DC converter IC. I haven't looked for one of those, but reading back a few pages, someone did do it successfully.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: JustMac on January 06, 2017, 09:30:25 pm
Yes, there's a lot more going on - there's an on board ARM CPU and FPGA rather than just a Cypress 8051 based EZ-USB micro. All the triggering etc is handled on-board rather than having to be done by the PC S/W in real time so all it needs to pump across the interface is display data rather than raw samples.
Aahhh, so am I correct in stating that all you get at the PC end is some "picture" format file for each waveform displayed ? Which at best contains/depicts perhaps 1k samples (given the display box is 1024 max) ? Any and all panning, zooming, measurements, etc is done in the OWON box so, as the old saying goes, "what ya see is what ya get" ?

ETA : Much thanks to you and the others for this very informative thread !   :clap:
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: gsdn on January 07, 2017, 05:05:19 am
I ask the above because I have a goofy idea on another way to isolate the scope. My thought was to use a cheap ARM SoC board (perhaps an RPi) to talk via USB to the scope. The pair are powered by the ubiquitous wallwart, which is general isolated from the mains. The link to the client software on the PC is then done via WiFi. This would mean some custom software on the ARM board to play  mailman between WiFi and USB. And some more mods to the client software. I'm sure a real software person (not I) could do it in an hour !  >:D And if the speeds are really 1.1, the additional lag may be unnoticeable. I recall other posters saying it's already somewhat laggy. In return you get isolation and freedom from yet another USB cable dragging across the workbench.

Of course the whole scheme may be goofy but I figured I'd toss it out there and let people pull on it's wings.
It could work. But if you simply use it with a notebook only on its battery, unplugged from the wall, it's also effectively isolated, no? (though not wireless :))
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: JustMac on January 12, 2017, 05:11:41 am
But if you simply use it with a notebook only on its battery, unplugged from the wall, it's also effectively isolated, no? (though not wireless :))
Yes that would isolate the scope and PC from earth ground. But c'mon now, where's the unneeded complexity in that !   ;)

I got my VDS1022 delivered today. Thumbs up to Saelig, I put the order in on Fri and it came (free shipping) 5 days later.  :-+

I wanted to put up a somewhat obvious chart of sampling rate vs horizontal time setting in case some people didn't realize that they're tied in a DSO. In particular with only 5k samples/chan of storage, there's only so long it can collect data before that memory is full. And so to "see" a longer display means a slower Sa/s rate. And that means less than the full bandwidth is available as those rates.

5ns/div   100MS/s
...
2us/div   100 MS/s
5us/div   50MS/s
10us/div  25MS/s
20us/div  12.5MS/s
50us/div  5MS/s
100us/div 2.5MS/s
200us/div 1.25MS/s
500us/div 0.5MS/s
1ms/div   250kS/s
2ms/div   125kS/s
5ms/div   50kS/s
10ms/div  25kS/s
20ms/div  12.5kS/s
50ms/div  5kS/s
................. trigger to auto mode, no single shot available
100ms/div 2.5kS/s
200ms/div 1.25kS/s
500ms/div 0.5kS/s
1s/div   250S/s
2s/div   125S/s
5s/div   50S/s
10s/div  25S/s
20s/div  12.5S/s ????
50s/div  5S/s
100s/div 2.5S/s  ????

I wonder how Owon splits those half samples ?   ;D

I had a brief chance to sniff the USB link and what I've seen so far is (I think) that the program on the PC sends a set of 3 commands to the scope HW. Each of these gets a 5 byte response except for the last one. If the HW is not "ready" (buffer not full ?) then a "busy" response is sent. IF the HW is ready then there's a 5216 byte message. The 1'st hundred or so bytes seem to be some header of some sort, the remainder appears to be the sampled data.

In this case I had only a single channel on, digitizing the 1kHz test signal. The scope was autoset to some ?? V/div vertically, near zero offset and 50kSa/s. One period of that data looks like ;

3C 3D 3C 3C 3C 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3E 3D
00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF 00 00 FF 00 00 FF 00 00 FF 00

I interpret those 50 bytes as 25 samples of 0 or -1, 25 samples of 61 (+/- 1). The numbers make sense if the scope sends a 2's complement number, -127 to +128 for it's 8 bit sample. The 50 samples make sense for a 1 msec period sampled at 50kSa/s (-> 50 Sa/ms). The 50% DC of the test waveform is obvious.

So sometime this weekend I'll vary the sample rate and turn on the other channel just to see what I can see via the sniffed USB. I'll post my results and thoughts here, if anyone is interested and the OP doesn't mind the "hijack" of his thread. And if I can how to get the multiport to output, I'll measure the waveforms/sec update rate vs horz time setting, which should be good for a laugh. From the USB timestamps for the above, it was ~ 14 ms between 2 full data packets or ~71 wvfrms/s.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 12, 2017, 10:37:05 am
Quote
So sometime this weekend I'll vary the sample rate and turn on the other channel just to see what I can see via the sniffed USB. I'll post my results and thoughts here, if anyone is interested and the OP doesn't mind the "hijack" of his thread. And if I can how to get the multiport to output, I'll measure the waveforms/sec update rate vs horz time setting, which should be good for a laugh. From the USB timestamps for the above, it was ~ 14 ms between 2 full data packets or ~71 wvfrms/s.

Go ahead and hijack  :), I don't think anyone has done any USB sniffing yet (one advantage is that the USB connection is slow enough to do it). With the Mac and Linux efforts going on too, all additional info is useful.

P.S. Another line of interest is the documented SCPI protocol interface.

http://www.owon.com.hk/service_down.asp?SortID_1=4&SortID_2=7&seek=&curpage=3 (http://www.owon.com.hk/service_down.asp?SortID_1=4&SortID_2=7&seek=&curpage=3)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: common_ground on February 05, 2017, 03:56:29 pm
Is the noise level on the 1022 much higher than the noise on 1022I oscilloscope ( if someone was able to check both ).
Thank you.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 06, 2017, 01:23:57 pm
I don't think this is a question that anyone will be able to answer., there are too many variables. The 1022 isn't inherently noisier than the USB isolated version (if you just short the inputs I think the residual noise would be the same). Any additional noise will come from ground loops. The noise induced by a ground loop will be dependent on the test setup, the computer, the length of USB and mains connections, how quiet the mains is etc. The VDS1022I will probably be quieter in some situations by some degree but it is not possible to quantify it so easily.

What the USB isolation mostly brings you is reduced chance of damage to your PC and equipment due to accidentally created ground currents, eg. accidentally shorting a probe ground clip to a high current supply rail (note that it doesn't mean that 'floating' the scope's ground at an elevated voltage is a good idea though).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: krum on February 06, 2017, 08:16:20 pm
Hello everyone,
I am reading this forum for some time and it is a real pleasure, although probably 80% of the things I am reading, are very distant or not clear to me. I have a little to no electronic experience, but how you guys approach each challenge, is a pleasure to read. 

Because of this, topic I recently purchased an OWON VDS1022I oscilloscope. I intend to learn how to use it for measuring things around my oldtimer (which recently received a brain surgery and now features megasquirt).

I hope my cry for help is on the right place. Today I was testing the oscilloscope for the first time for about 30-40 minutes, then turned it off and after turning it on again, it won't set itself automatically (the big A letter on the top right corner).
The program opens the AutoSetting dialog, the oscilloscope clicks twice and then the AutoSetting dialog stays just forever. The oscilloscope light is green and every few seconds it blinks shortly red.

Has anyone experienced such issue? Would it be possible, that I am not doing anything correct? I already deinstalled and reinstalled everything on my laptop, and also tested the oscilloscope on another laptop.

Thanks in advance for any help you could provide
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 07, 2017, 10:43:52 am
Hi krum, welcome to the forum.

You say that the Autoset has stopped working.  Does manual setting of timebase and sensitivity range of the inputs still work correctly? Do you still get sensible traces if you adjust these settings manually? Do all ranges work, AC/DC coupling too.

If it works with manual settings then it sounds unlikely that there is a hardware fault. If you have tested on two different laptops then it probably rules out USB interface problems too (unless both laptops cannot supply enough power to drive the scope, that seems unlikely though). You are using the supplied cable rather than a longer one? If the scope is responding, it seems to rule out driver issues -the S/W would tell you if it couldn't see the scope anyway.

If you see traces in manual mode then I'm wondering if there is something about the signal(s) that is confusing the Auto setup (I don't know maybe large spikes or something). If there is a fault on one of the sensitivity ranges then I suppose that could confuse it too.

The other thing to check is that you are running the latest version of the PC software, which is not necessarily what is on the CD, depending how long the supplier had it in storage. I have vague memory of one of the past updates being to improve autoset functionality.

You can find the latest software on the OWON site: http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175 (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175)   It's the first thing Owon would tell you to do anyway.

If nothing helps, then it's possible that you have a faulty unit, i which case I would go back to the supplier. Owon might also be able to help based on its behaviour (light pattern etc).

I hope this helps.


P.S. It probably doesn't help right now, but it's a good thing to get into the habit of using the manual settings, based on what you are expecting the signal to be, rather than autoset. It gives to a better 'feel' for a signal not being what it should and you can probably set the scope more optimally by eye too.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: krum on February 07, 2017, 11:20:31 pm
Thank you for the fast response and good advises, Chris.
To answer first to the setup questions - I am using the supplied USB cable, tried both plugging it in 1 and 2 usbs (it is an Y cable).
When default settings are restored I cannot see any traces in manual mode (good tip, will use it, thanks).
Software is 1.0.23 (latest from Owon's website). I have also tried with 1.0.24, which came with the oscilloscope on a CD.

I have dug a bit more in the menus and found the "Self Cal" button under Utility. After the calibration finishes, I can see traces, when I connect the probe to the generator. The frequency is measured at 1000Hz.
When the scale is at <5V, the graphic seems to be not effected by changing the scale. The Voltage cursor however changes its value. The graphic is rather tiny. If I change the probe's multiplier to  1X, then the graphic gets much higher.
Changing the scale to 5V and more reduces the size of the graphic to a very tiny one.

Following your advise, I have contacted the supplier and prepared this video for them:  https://youtu.be/9Yw15jdur5g
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 08, 2017, 01:11:08 pm
You're welcome, I'm glad it was of some help anyway.

Quote
When the scale is at <5V, the graphic seems to be not effected by changing the scale. The Voltage cursor however changes its value. The graphic is rather tiny. If I change the probe's multiplier to  1X, then the graphic gets much higher.
Changing the scale to 5V and more reduces the size of the graphic to a very tiny one.

Hmm, that looks like the problem then, no wonder the Autoset is getting confused. At a guess it's a bad joint somewhere between the processor and the variable gain amplifier (it sound as if the relay controls work) but best not to mess with it while you're in discussion with the supplier, who will hopefully be helpful!

One thing I forgot to ask... Does it behave the same on the other channel? That would be helpful to know, both for diagnosis and for evidence to the supplier.


P.S. I wonder what they've changed in s/w 1.0.24 vs the website version. Unfortunately Owon don't really do release notes.  :(
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: krum on February 09, 2017, 09:01:24 pm
Both channels act exactly the same. I expect the seller to act soon, but let's see what will happen...

If you are interested of taking a look on 1.0.24, I can try to upload it somewhere in the cloud.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 09, 2017, 10:13:16 pm
Now that's really strange, one channel is reasonably easy to explain as a simple hardware fault, both channels is much harder!

Just one other thing from looking through the menus - you haven't got the probe divide ratio (Function menu > Channel > Probe Rate) set to something silly like X1000? I think I'm out of ideas.

I hope the supplier comes back to you soon.

Yes, it would be interesting to see if I can see any differences in 1.0.24. Thank you!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 10, 2017, 10:41:03 am
Ok, just one more thought overnight (can you tell it's bugging me?  :)).

Do a full uninstall of 1.0.24, then check that the installation folder is empty / deleted (just in case it has left some settings file). Then do a clean install of 1.0.23 from the website. I'm not sure if this is what you did anyway, or whether you installed 1.0.23 over the top of 1.0.24.

After that it has to be a faulty unit.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ultrawipf on February 10, 2017, 12:07:37 pm
The autoset does not really work most of the time for me too but my scope is definetly not faulty. I guess it is just terrible software.
For me the led flashing pattern is slow blinking red/green when the scope is not initialized and mostly constant green with short red pulses while running so that should be correct.

Maybe do a self calibration and software reset again but i guess something is definetly wrong with you scope when the traces are super high in the 50V setting if i saw that correctly in the video.
If everything fails contact the seller and get a replacement.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: krum on February 12, 2017, 09:32:09 pm
Thanks Gyro,  Ultrawipf.
The probes divider was set to 10x initially. I did the deinstall/reinstall on the first laptop and I installed 1.0.23 clean on the second laptop. The behavior of the both channels is the same.

Ultrawipf, now that you have pointed it out, it really looks like the signal is too high.

Well... apparently the unit is defect. Shame, I was willing to setup my newly implanted VR sensor on my oldtimer. Now I will have to wait until the seller responds. Tomorrow evening I will check with them what's going on.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: ivanlrlukic on February 14, 2017, 03:13:02 pm
I'be purchased VDS1022 after reading rather positive reviews of it on this forum.

Tried it on Win7 machine and it works OK. Then I tried to install it on dedicated PC that runs XP but without success. Installation simply won't start with error message that says nothing usable. SW version that arrived with device on CD is 1.0.23, the same as on on their site.

I guess XP is (or was) supported since there is official description how to install USB driver for 2000/XP.

Does anybody have, and is willing to share (via drivespace, or...) an older version of SW that supports XP?

Regards, Ivan.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 15, 2017, 06:23:12 pm
Hi Ivan,

Welcome.

That's curious, I have two XP (SP3) PCs running the latest 1.0.23 version from the website. What was the error message?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: ivanlrlukic on February 16, 2017, 08:43:56 am
Hi Gyro,

it's XP SP3, with 3 GB RAM and 100 GB of free HD space.

AVG AV program disabled.

Error message appears just after installation start, find it attached.

Regards, Ivan.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 16, 2017, 12:18:12 pm
Hi Ivan,

Not such an unusable error message then. Looking on the web, it indicates that the open source installer they use has detected a checksum error in the file:

http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Why_do_I_get_NSIS_Error%3F (http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Why_do_I_get_NSIS_Error%3F)

At a guess, it's something to do with what you used to unpack the installer .exe file from the downloaded .rar file from the website. I downloaded the 1.0.23 file from the website this morning (Edit: on my XP machine), unpacked it using 7Zip and the installer opened fine.

Your other alternative would be to copy the installer file that you unpacked on your Win7 machine across to your XP machines, because it worked there.

The other thing the page above suggested was the possiblity of virus on the system. I would re-enable your AVG.

Chris


P.S. Just as a precaution, I just scanned the installer exe file itself with AVG2017 and Malwarebytes and according to them it's clean.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: krum on February 17, 2017, 05:08:44 pm
Hi,
a short update, which could be helpful for the future buyers of this oscilloscope. The seller agreed to send a new device. According to him, it will take 8-16 working days to arrive.
He rejected the old device, as the return costs will be too high.

I guess this leaves me with a device to play... Any ideas what and how to check are very welcome. After a surface check nothing looks burned or unsoldered.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: ivanlrlukic on February 17, 2017, 05:19:23 pm
At a guess, it's something to do with what you used to unpack the installer .exe file from the downloaded .rar file from the website. I downloaded the 1.0.23 file from the website this morning (Edit: on my XP machine), unpacked it using 7Zip and the installer opened fine.

Chris, you,ve been right on-topic.

Archive was unpacked on XP and everything worked fine since!

Many thanks!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 17, 2017, 07:20:53 pm
Well that was a pretty good day then!  :)

@ivanlrlukic:  My pleasure, glad you got it sorted. Mine runs nicely on what is really quite an old XP machine now. Thanks for reporting back.  :-+

@krum:
That sounds like a result too! Make sure you keep an eye on the arrival date just in case it takes you outside ebay or whatever complaint date (I'm sure it will be fine though). An interesting unit to investigate, it was puzzling from the start, I don't think anyone has seen anything like that before, on here anyway.

I wondered about bad firmware, but I'm not sure if there is anything, I think it and the FPGA data all get downloaded over USB at startup... and the PC correcty recognises it and performs most operations correctly anyway.

Looking back to the original teardown, I would download the datasheet for the AD603 variable gain amplifiers and look carefully at the control signals, I still can't see why it would affect both channels though. If we look at it as an production fault though, I would suspect the soldering of the SiM3U156 CPU, maybe the gain control pins are adjacent on a badly soldered side. Maybe also look for missing passives, check against the photos that Mark_O posted as his board revision was later than mine. It would be worth posting some photos, we might be able to spot something (yours might be a later revision too, which would be interesting).

Do please post back on anything you find regardless, getting it going too would be a nice result!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on February 21, 2017, 11:09:09 am
Been faffing in Linux all day.
I'm at the point where the app will recognise the device, but fails (times out) at sending config.
This is the point I got too, before testing in the Mac. If you look at dmesg output, there should be a few "USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed" messages.
Ah, useful - didn't think to check dmesg!

It should have write access and a quick Python script succeeds, but this is just annoying!
What does your Python script do?
I've completely forgot - I don't even remember writing said script now.
I think it was purely a quick way to init and poke at the scope.

The provided libusbJava.so is built for 32bit systems, are you using a 64bit system?

So far, apart from the Mac, in which we already know it works, I've tried:
1) a 64bit Linux (Arch) system with a recent kernel: timeout errors ("USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed ...") early in the device initialization progress.
2) a 32bit Linux (Centos) with an old (2.6) kernel running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: same as 1).
3) a 64bit FreeBSD 11 running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: didn't work, then worked 1 or 2 times, then never again; even not working, it gets further in the device initialization progress than Linux, the last message shown in the terminal, before stalling, is "+6250 bytes MCU:getFrame 14".
4) same 64bit FreeBSD 11 system running on actual hardware: same results as 3).

I have no idea what made it work once (or twice) in FreeBSD, but it did. it seems this device has some weird USB behavior... after trying to use it in FreeBSD/Linux, it locks the boot process of my notebook (which proceeds promptly after unplugging the device), booting with it plugged in sometimes also prevents Linux from recognizing my wireless keyboard/mouse usb receiver (which also proceeds to work promptly after unplugging it)...

I 'think' I was swapping libusbJava.so for a suitable blob. (As per OS X)
I'd probably guess that the USB implementation on BSD is more forgiving or on-spec than the Linux implementation - closer to the OS X version.
Getting a FreeBSD driver based off the OS X method may be more likely to work?

When it worked 2-3 times, was this concurrent? Or through power cycles (scope unplugged)?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: pashe on March 20, 2017, 10:53:04 am
Can't recognize IC U45 - Ethernet controller. Do you have full-size photo?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ultrawipf on April 01, 2017, 02:51:58 pm
I just played around with scpi and it looks like all functions are supported via scpi and you can even send aquired data via scpi pretty fast, so i wonder if it might be possible to realise simple serial decoding or longer data logging for slower signals in a different application.

Does anyone know if there is already something around as it seems to be documented and following some standard?

"*ADC 1" gives you a full length of the current buffer of channel 1 and all the measurement functions like ":meas:max" also work great.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on May 11, 2017, 01:50:32 pm
Hi,

Like many others, this is my first post, and I'd like to thank Gyro and the others for this thread. I just bought my VDS1121 (non-I) due to the reviews here and I'm eagerly waiting for it to arrive to start testing stuff :). In the meantime, I've been checking the software, and I'm very curious about the different changes that Owon might have made between different versions, so I wanted to ask that if people have different versions of the software (unlikely, but who knows) we can just check the source that is provided with it and do a simple diff (I'm actually a Java programmer by day :D). I'd also like to get my hands on the 1.0.24 version of the software, maybe @krum or someone else can provide it somewhere?

Anyway, many thanks again.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 11, 2017, 02:42:40 pm
Hi arcnor, welcome to the forum  :)

Glad to have done my bit to help, hopefully I haven't set you up for a dissapointment. If so, I'll try to share the blame! :D

Looking back through my archive, I've used it with software versions since 1.0.4 (the released versions have been 1.0.4, 1.0.8, 1.0.11 and 1.0.23). I've still not seem 1.0.24 on the website either, so no idea what improvement they might have added on the most recent CD version.  I'm currently running 1.0.23 and haven't found any bugs in it as yet.

As you've probably noticed, Owon are hopeless at doing release notes, there are also some big gaps in the released numbers, meaning that there must have been a lot of internal versions in between.

In terms of changes, it hindsight it's difficult to remember them in detail, I think they have mostly been bugfixes. There was a problem in 1.0.4 with single shot triggering I think, fixed in 1.0.8.  I do remember that 1.0.8 added the ability to maximise the window, however it also introduced a bug which made one of the settings windows very slow to open (for me anyway), this got fixed in 1.0.11. I think at some point SCPI support possibly got included too, but I may not have noticed it previously. Another thing that has probably changed is inclusion of newer scopes like the VDS1062. Although there are different releases for different scopes, I think this is because they include different downloadable firmware for the different hardware platforms, hopefully they are now all using the same PC s/w code by now.

Having a full-time Java programmer on board could be very useful. As Owon seem to have managed to accidentally include the source code in their releases there are probably all sorts of useful tweaks that could be made. A few more shortcuts would be useful for instance... and the other big one, adding single shot triggering at slow (chart recorder mode) timebases - that one is probably tied up in firmware though.

Do please report back on your impressions after it arrives and anything useful you dig up in the code.  :-+


P.S. You might be able to help with the porting to Linux too, is sounds as if it very nearly works.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on May 11, 2017, 10:12:11 pm
Hi arcnor, welcome to the forum  :)

Hi Gyro, thanks!

Glad to have done my bit to help, hopefully I haven't set you up for a dissapointment. If so, I'll try to share the blame! :D

If you did, I'll make sure to complain about the free advice loudly here! ;)

Looking back through my archive, I've used it with software versions since 1.0.4 (the released versions have been 1.0.4, 1.0.8, 1.0.11 and 1.0.23). I've still not seem 1.0.24 on the website either, so no idea what improvement they might have added on the most recent CD version.  I'm currently running 1.0.23 and haven't found any bugs in it as yet.

As you've probably noticed, Owon are hopeless at doing release notes, there are also some big gaps in the released numbers, meaning that there must have been a lot of internal versions in between.

In terms of changes, it hindsight it's difficult to remember them in detail, I think they have mostly been bugfixes. There was a problem in 1.0.4 with single shot triggering I think, fixed in 1.0.8.  I do remember that 1.0.8 added the ability to maximise the window, however it also introduced a bug which made one of the settings windows very slow to open (for me anyway), this got fixed in 1.0.11. I think at some point SCPI support possibly got included too, but I may not have noticed it previously. Another thing that has probably changed is inclusion of newer scopes like the VDS1062. Although there are different releases for different scopes, I think this is because they include different downloadable firmware for the different hardware platforms, hopefully they are now all using the same PC s/w code by now.

Will you be able to share those versions if you still have them around, or at least the files with "*_source*" on them (besides the Eclipse ones, which we don't care about)? I'm interested in seeing the progress, mostly curiosity, but you never know if they added some feature than they later removed, for example (I've obviously seen this before :D)

Having a full-time Java programmer on board could be very useful. As Owon seem to have managed to accidentally include the source code in their releases there are probably all sorts of useful tweaks that could be made. A few more shortcuts would be useful for instance... and the other big one, adding single shot triggering at slow (chart recorder mode) timebases - that one is probably tied up in firmware though.

I'll be glad to help if there are things worth changing. The only "problem" is that I know nearly nothing about oscilloscopes (yesterday I learned why you cannot just connect wires to the scope, and that 1x and 10x probes are a thing :P) so I don't really understand that second thing you mentioned. Good thing is that knowledge can be acquired, so I'm hoping that with clear instructions I'll be able to do interesting changes if needed :).

Do please report back on your impressions after it arrives and anything useful you dig up in the code.  :-+


P.S. You might be able to help with the porting to Linux too, is sounds as if it very nearly works.

After reading the code a bit I might setup a build system for it, that might even fix the Linux problem on its own, but I'll check.

Thanks!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on May 12, 2017, 09:58:23 am
So, after checking the code for a while, I've reached the conclusion that whoever did this didn't know how to Java, really... For those that know Java, it seems that they've added Swing inside SWT, which is nuts. For those that don't understand me, this is like driving a car that you've mounted inside another car. They only use Eclipse to run the Swing software, so in the end 80% of the files they have in there are useless :P.

In some other news, it seems this software was also used by another company (which might be the same one in the end or something?) called SainSmart, specifically for a product called VPO1025. If you check the images on their product page (https://www.sainsmart.com/sainsmart-vpo1025-pen-type-handheld-oscilloscope-25mhz-100ms-s-usb-dso.html (https://www.sainsmart.com/sainsmart-vpo1025-pen-type-handheld-oscilloscope-25mhz-100ms-s-usb-dso.html)) you'll see a very familiar interface. Also, Owon seems to have a very similar product called RDS1021(I) (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ParentID=79&SortID=84&ProID=179 (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ParentID=79&SortID=84&ProID=179)) which I'm sure it's the same product behind all that yellow plastic.

I've also checked their latest software, and finally they've removed the source code and obfuscated the binaries (because Java code can trivially be converted back to compilable form. Even without that source we found, the code for the VDS1022 is practically the same after decompiling, minus the Chinese comments :D)

I've created a build process for the code, removed all that Eclipse cruft and everything runs exactly the same as before, except the USB connection. I'm converting that to a more standard Java USB library, which is way harder than just replacing the proper libraries, but will allow us to run this anywhere (for example, ARM, so this can run on a Raspberry Pi). Until I receive my own oscilloscope in about 2 weeks I won't be able to verify that everything works, of course.

Anyway, that's what I've found in general :).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 12, 2017, 10:44:00 am
Well that seems pretty good progress for your first day!  ;D

I'm happy to share the old versions with you (if you still need them at this stage), I guess it really ought to be by PM rather than publicly as they no longer release them. Also they're around 40MB a time, even the folder with the JAR files in is 25MB. I'm not big on the whole cloud thing (or Java!) but if you can either PM me a dropbox type location and password or whatever then I'll happily dump them in there. Alternatively a temporary email address that will accept files of that size.

Interesting about the SainSmart connection, you're the first one to spot that. It is indeed a strange relationship that these Chinese competitor companies have - Sainsmart have recently taken to blatantly copying JYE Tech products, so I'm not surprised to see OWON code in there too. Confusing, there appear to be all sorts of colaborations / downright thefts.

It sounds as if you may be on the road to streamlining the s/w a lot - great progress.  :-+


P.S. Don't worry about the scope probes, it comes with a reasonably decent set. There are plenty of threads on here covering safe use of a scope.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on May 12, 2017, 11:39:42 am
Yeah, it's been productive, but I think I'm almost all out of low hanging fruit at this point :).

I'd like to try something, though. I've seen that when changing the size of the window, the software starts to behave strangely. For example, when making it bigger, the pixels get bigger instead of being able to see more of the signal, which should be the normal behavior. I've also seen that you can load files onto the software, so I was wondering if somebody can share with me a record of some kind of signal, just to verify my assumption that this can be fixed :D.

Oh, and I've also found that there is another OWON product that is supposed to work with the software, maybe an older version of the RDS1021 called VPS021. I've only found references on Aliexpress and on the Chinese version of the OWON homepage...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 12, 2017, 01:52:58 pm
You have a couple of PMs, only the second one giving what you want!  ::)

I've attached a saved waveform file - channel 1 is a sawtooth and channel 2 just mains noise pickup, but will hopefully give you something to play with...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on May 12, 2017, 01:54:24 pm
Awesome, thanks! I'll take a look. I replied to both your PMs, but I'm not sure you saw the replies (maybe I did something wrong, no idea).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 12, 2017, 02:01:48 pm
Ah yes, I see them now, thanks. Hope it helps.

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ultrawipf on May 13, 2017, 08:49:32 am
Hey arcnor,
Awesome that we have activity again and i can confirm the code is ugly ;)
I have not done very much with it apart from looking for more information, adding new shortcuts for trigger position, start/stop and single trigger.

You are exactly the one we need to take this software apart further and find out more about the protocols  :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on May 13, 2017, 09:16:56 am
Hey Ultrawipf, thanks!

You are exactly the one we need to take this software apart further and find out more about the protocols  :-+

What do you mean by "find out more about the protocols"? I thought the protocol was already known? Or is the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual" not complete? http://bikealive.nl/tl_files/EmbeddedSystems/Test_Measurement/owon/OWON%20Oscilloscope%20PC%20Guidance%20Manual.pdf (http://bikealive.nl/tl_files/EmbeddedSystems/Test_Measurement/owon/OWON%20Oscilloscope%20PC%20Guidance%20Manual.pdf) in case you haven't seen that before, but I thought I read about this document on this thread, although I might be wrong (I did a *lot* of reading before buying this thing, and now my memory is blurry :D)

In any case, I think it will be better at some point to have some sort of common repository if there is a general interest on this, although the legality of it is what I'm worried about...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 13, 2017, 09:48:45 am
Quote
Or is the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual"

Hey, that's a new one on me - I'd only found the SCPI Protocol manual.

Edit: Or at least, didn't realize it related to the VDS models - I thought it was just for the USB interface in their desktop models. The VDSxxxx models aren't listed in the SPBWxx string (section 3.1.1 Model).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on May 13, 2017, 11:11:52 am
You might be right, the VDS1022 is not mentioned on that doc. However, I'll be very surprised if they changed it much. The "STARTMEMDEPTH" command (among others) is also on the code, although commented. In any case, it should not be complicated to find out how the protocol works, I'll try to document it after I receive mine.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on May 13, 2017, 12:20:51 pm
So, for today I've managed to find where the rendering takes place, and I've tried to improve it a bit, as I find it extremely ugly, although I feel like I'm missing something and there is a reason for it to look like this.

I've added an example of how it looked before (very "chunky") and how it looks "cleaned" (ignore the problems with the grid, I'm doing some tests with it).

From what I've seen, the software is using 4 vertical samples per horizontal value, but I fail to see why... Also, at least with this example, there seems to be a vertical resolution of only 64 values (6 bits).

Is this how this normally looks, or maybe I have something wrong somewhere?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ultrawipf on May 13, 2017, 05:46:51 pm
Oh. that document is new to me. But it seems to only mention the standalone scopes and not the vds series and they seem to use a different control software.
I found almost no info about the vds but there is a lot known about the sds/pds/hds so i assumed there are bigger differences.

The 4 values per horizontal point might be related to zooming in while paused without having a separate buffer. Maybe i look into the code again later but i find it pretty hard to find anything specific in that bunch of files.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: pjhsv on May 18, 2017, 06:10:26 am
Hi All,

Bought this scope based on the how to set up a lab cheaply video blog, and from this forum. I have it working on my PC, but I can't seem to get it working on my mac. For context, I have an IT background, and intermediate Linux, but Mac is basically beginner/end-user.

The app fires up, but I can't seem to get the device detected. Does anyone have any troubleshooting tips?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 18, 2017, 09:12:59 pm
Hi pjhsv,

I'm assuming that, if you are trying to run it on a MAC, you are doing it based on CatWisker's posts and github repository:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg1096866/?topicseen#msg1096866 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg1096866/?topicseen#msg1096866)

If so, then you might want to PM him directly.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: pjhsv on May 19, 2017, 09:26:49 am
Yes, that is the post. And yes, I've PM'd him directly. Thanks :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on May 25, 2017, 09:26:17 pm
So finally, I've received my VDS1022. And I'm surprised I did, because they sent it without any packaging, just the bare (and flimsy) box it comes in.

Anyway, as for the software, I did some fixes to my code and managed to make it work on OSX. Boring I know, somebody else already did this. However, my version should even work on Linux, including ARM devices (like a Raspberry for example, although I don't have any to test this on). It's also stopping to work after a while, and I'm not sure yet if it's because my code or because I have it connected through 2 hubs.

In any case, I have some questions:
1. When I connected it to another computer, it uploaded some FPGA firmware. I don't remember that happening on the first computer I connected this to. Does anybody know if theirs also got updated when they connected it? I can check the code, but it's a mess :)
2. When doing the self calibration, the device itself made some scaring clicks. Is that normal at all? It sounded like some sort of relay switching, although as I said I'm no analog electronics person.
3. The device seems noisy, although this is probably expected, but it will help me if somebody can post an screenshot of the calibrating pattern with the provided probes, to see that my thing is not completely broken :D (it's also not the isolated version, but I read a few pages back that this should not affect noise by a lot? No idea, of course)

Anyway, that's all for now, thank you in advance!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ultrawipf on May 26, 2017, 01:01:58 pm
1. I am pretty sure it does not store the fpga firmware in it and always has to load it after starting up. The led blinks red if it was not initialized and after the software was started once and uploaded the firmware it goes into normal operation.
2. Relay clicking is normal when calibrating and changing voltage levels.
3. After calibration without anything connected to the probe it does not seem to be very noisy apart from the usual 50hz ambient noise on the very sensitive settings.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 26, 2017, 02:08:54 pm
Yes, what Ultrawipf said - it's my understanding too that it downloads the FPGA code every time you connect and start it up. Yes it does have relays (AC/DC coupling and range) in the front-ends which do click a bit during cal.

You'll get lots of noise on the lowest settings with the probes open - there's lot's more floating in the air than just 50Hz (more these days with SMPSs and other stuff everywhere). It should quieten down if you sort the ground clip to the tip - but not completely, it still forms a wire loop.

I posted traces of what I get with the inputs shorted (50R BNC terminators) directly on the scope on the first page of this thread (replies #2 and 3). You won't get quite as  quiet with the probes attached and tips grounded to the earth clips.

The 1kHz probe compensation output should give you nice clean waveforms. The first thing you should do is compensate the probes to match the input capacitance of the scope - nice square traces (no overshoot or rounding).  Post some images if you have problems.

I hope your new version does work with linux too, that should please a few folks.  :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: MBY on July 12, 2017, 06:24:21 pm
Has anybody made any progress on linux? I have spent hours playing with libusbJava and other things I don't understand without any progress. Any combination fails to detect the scope with some error or another. Perhaps the most interesting(?) one is "ch.ntb.usb.USBException: LibusbJava.usb_set_configuration: could not set config 1: Broken pipe". That sounds like something maybe something can work.

Another thing. I usually cannot zoom from single triggering. If I single capture something changing the time base doesn't zoom or anything. Except sometimes. Stopping from "run" and changing time base works as expected. Every time.

It is hopeless to find out which version of the program one is running. I think my version is 1.3.0 (that is what the launcher jar file says), or 1.0.27 (what the install win exe says). Haven't found any "about" in the program itself.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: b_force on July 23, 2017, 02:02:21 pm
A client of mine has the Owon VDS1022 version (so non-isolated).
He was wondering if he could just buy a third party USB isolator adapter to make this thing isolated.
Do you guys know if that would work (with the software and all)?

I personally don't really see no reason why it wouldn't.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 23, 2017, 02:31:01 pm
- There's no difference in software between the isolated and non-isolated versions so no problem there.

- The Isolated version uses the same ADUM3160 usb full speed 12Mbps (not 480Mbps high speed) isolator IC that is used in the off-the-shelf isolators, so no problem there either. It runs quite happily at USB Full speed.

- The only potential problem is if the Isolator can't source enough power to drive the VDS1022 on the isolated side. It needs to be able to meet the USB 500mA power spec.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: b_force on July 23, 2017, 03:05:07 pm
- There's no difference in software between the isolated and non-isolated versions so no problem there.

- The Isolated version uses the same ADUM3160 usb full speed 12Mbps (not 480Mbps high speed) isolator IC that is used in the off-the-shelf isolators, so no problem there either. It runs quite happily at USB Full speed.

- The only potential problem is if the Isolator can't source enough power to drive the VDS1022 on the isolated side. It needs to be able to meet the USB 500mA power spec.
So I guess an isolator simply based on the ADUM3160 will do the job just perfectly fine?  ;) ^-^
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 23, 2017, 03:18:35 pm
Yes, ADUM3160 / ADUM4160. All you need to worry about is the size of the DC-DC converter in the isolator. The one inside the VDS1022I is rated at 2W.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on August 29, 2017, 11:02:37 am
Anyway, as for the software, I did some fixes to my code and managed to make it work on OSX. Boring I know, somebody else already did this. However, my version should even work on Linux, including ARM devices (like a Raspberry for example, although I don't have any to test this on). It's also stopping to work after a while, and I'm not sure yet if it's because my code or because I have it connected through 2 hubs.

Cool! Post up the 'know how' then  :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on August 29, 2017, 11:05:23 am
Yes, that is the post. And yes, I've PM'd him directly. Thanks :)

Hey PJ,

I'll reply here as it might be useful for others too.

What version of OS X are you using? I'm on 10.11.6. I'm yet to try newer.

If you attach the scope after executing the app, does the app respond in any way?


CW.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on September 04, 2017, 02:22:04 pm
Hello All,

This is my first post and I greatly thank Gyro and the others for this thread.

I bought my VDS1022 due to the information put forth here and really appreciate the help cutting through the jungle of USB DSO's.
I found the isolated version very interesting, but I only have measurements on simple battery operated circuits.
I am very happy with my oscilloscope. It does what I need it for very well.

The criteria that were important to me:

1.) I could use it out in the field with no AC access

2.) Low hardware requirements for the host computer
(This was one of the main reasons. Most of the work is done
by the Hardware/Software in the oscilloscope itself as was detailed
in this thread - and in a way I could understand it  :D)

3.) Round 20 Mhz bandwidth
4.) Good price

Memory depth is good enough for my applications.

Since I don't want to lug a huge notebook around with me,
I tested the Owon software on my old netbook Acer Aspire before buying.
It has a 1.66 GHz Atom N450 CPU with 1 GB Ram.
It worked just fine without a hiccup.

I did try picoscope software on this netbook.
It stalls and hiccups with it. So a no-go for me in this case.

The software on the CD is version 1.0.24 from 10.11.2016
I have downloaded and am using the latest version from Owons website which is 1.0.27

Thank You all again!

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

All the best, Nullarbor




Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on September 04, 2017, 06:42:42 pm
Welcome to the forum Nullarbor, and thanks [Edit: for the detailed feedback].  Glad it worked out well for you - it's always nice to know when a teardown actually helps someone. :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: AmadeusMozart on September 04, 2017, 06:46:25 pm
@Gyro : Many thanks for taking the time to post your view on the Owon VDS1022i. :clap: Based upon that I've ordered the non-USB isolated model, the VDS1022.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on September 04, 2017, 06:51:49 pm
Welcome Herr Mozart (thought you were long dead!). Do report back once you get a chance to try it out.  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: wwh on September 18, 2017, 05:17:21 am
Hi everyone,

I founded this guy upgrade his scope to Isolated @20$ cost.

http://www.dalbert.net/?p=314 (http://www.dalbert.net/?p=314)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on October 02, 2017, 06:07:47 pm
Just a quick update.

I downloaded the latest software version for this scope.
I can't discern much difference except that the graphics are a bit different.
A pity they don't have a change log.

Here's a pic of the version I had and have now:

Yes, I am still pleased with my oscilloscope.

Have a great day, Nullarbor
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on October 02, 2017, 10:06:26 pm
Thanks for pointing out the update Nullarbor, I hadn't seen it.

A typical Owon screw-up with the downloads...  :palm:

- Going via the support tab on the VDS product page downloads V1.0.27
- Going in via their 'Download Center' offers download of V1.0.28 but when I try to download it, AVG blocks it with a "URL:Mal" infection detected! (screenshot attached).

I've sent Owon a message through their support link, so hopefully they will fix it!

In the meantime, I found a copy of V1.0.28 on this Russian language support site:  https://technica-m.ru/support/type/soft (https://technica-m.ru/support/type/soft)
I've scanned the setup file with AVG and Malwarebytes but other members please use at your own risk! When installed, it gives exactly the same S/W build number as you posted.

The difference in graphics that you show is due to the Black skin being used rather than the Blue one (it can be changed at the top of the Utilities panel). Ironically the only difference I've found so far (versus V1.0.23) is that changing the skin setting seems to have been broken in V1.0.27 and then fixed again in V1.0.28! :wtf:

I agree, it's infuriating that they don't provide a change log!

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: MrSllez on October 23, 2017, 05:04:13 pm
I was thinking on buying this oscilloscope and would need some advice. I am from Slovenia, currently studying mehatronics (combination of electro, computer and mechanical science). In my free time I also work with microcontrollers, audio equipment (amplifiers) and ocessional other projects and repairs.

I have been wanting oscilloscope for some time now, and checked the forums for advice. I saw that a beginner should rather get an used scope, but the cheapest decent scope I can get used is a TEKTRONIX 2213 for 180 euro. The thing is that I live in a campus and go home by bus every weekend, so I would need something portable.

Would an OWON 1022I suit me well? I can get it for 105 euro from ebay. How good is the overall build quality? How good is the current software? Any thoughts appreciated.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: AmadeusMozart on November 15, 2017, 01:56:52 am
I have been using my Owon VDS1022 (non insulated one) for audio purposes. I wasted a few days trying to find a problem with an amplifier that did not exist: normally when testing a new build a 1kHz square wave is used and the shape is studied. The wave exhibited considerable ripple suggesting some accidental oscillation. When I increased the frequency then at approx 7 kHz the square wave shape had completely disappeared and showed up as a sinus wave. Same thing happened with a triangular signal. At certain high frequencies the signal seemed to become unstable like it was triggering some parasitic oscillation. In the end an analog oscilloscope (genuine tube based) showed that these artifacts reside in the digital oscilloscope. Now that I know this it does not bother me but I would not advise to purchase a digital oscilloscope for high end audio work. Morgan Jones in his books is of the same opinion. Eventually digital oscilloscopes will become (or already are) good enough but at what price? For repair and adjusting (e.g. bias or phase inverters) I can get away with this cheap oscilloscope and it is far better than having no oscilloscope.

Hope this helps someone. AM

Edit 31 December 2017: The above is wrong - the square wave generated by a PC was the culprit, using the square wave from the Owon Oscilloscope itself  gives a perfect result and I now wonder about some ground interaction from the PC.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 15, 2017, 10:57:49 am
@AM: No, sorry, you've got something seriously screwy in your setup there. There's no way that it can't reproduce a clean 7kHz square wave (see attached)- it's not even breaking a sweat (12.5Msps). Maybe you can post more details of your setup, screenshots, scope setting etc. Thinking about the ripple at 1kHz, did you properly adjust the compensation of your scope probes?

P.S. Of course there's always going to be an issue measuring distortion characteristics of high-end audio components with any 8 bit resolution scope (I use a 16bit resoluton one myself for -90dB'ish level measurements), but being able to display decent sine, square and triangle waves isn't one of them. Morgan Jones (remember he was writing a while back now), recommended a minimum of 100Msps scope in order to be able to catch high frequency parasitic oscillations.

EDIT: For reference I have added a 700kHz squarewave. Function generator rise and fall times beginning to show (Spec'd at <35ns).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on December 21, 2017, 08:10:02 am
I'm not sure if my issue is the same that AmadeusMozart reported, but I'm seeing very strange behavior from the scope, that I hope can be fixed by some misconfiguration on my part (or maybe I just misunderstand something).

I have 2 signals generated by an Arduino. The pins are high for 4 seconds, then low for another 4.

However, this is what I see in my scope (attached, channel 2 goes through a resistor, hence the small amplitude).

Can somebody explain why I don't see a (very slow) square signal?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: tautech on December 21, 2017, 08:18:22 am
I'm not sure if my issue is the same that AmadeusMozart reported, but I'm seeing very strange behavior from the scope, that I hope can be fixed by some misconfiguration on my part (or maybe I just misunderstand something).

I have 2 signals generated by an Arduino. The pins are high for 4 seconds, then low for another 4.

However, this is what I see in my scope (attached, channel 2 goes through a resistor, hence the small amplitude).

Can somebody explain why I don't see a (very slow) square signal?
Change the channel input coupling to DC and leave it there. AC coupling is only needed for viewing signals with a large DC offset.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on December 21, 2017, 09:34:56 am
Change the channel input coupling to DC and leave it there. AC coupling is only needed for viewing signals with a large DC offset.

You are of course right, thanks! I need to learn a lot :).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: phord on December 25, 2017, 07:32:56 pm
I just received the VDS1022I as a Christmas gift.  I haven't run Windows in years, though.  I'm trying to get the software to run on Linux, but having only bad luck.  I can load static captures but I can't connect to the USB interface via libUsbJava.   Has anyone got it working yet?

I'm a C++ engineer, but I can read and hack at Java sometimes.  I'm willing to help if someone needs it.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: arcnor on December 25, 2017, 07:53:12 pm
There is a repository that explains how to make it work on OSX, and there is also a ticket mentioning Debian (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022/issues/4).

I also started converting the source to a modern alternative (usb4java or similar) but got too many problems, so didn't finish it.

Hopefully that will help you to make it work
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: AmadeusMozart on December 31, 2017, 12:33:06 am
@Gyro

Thanks for the reply and apologies for the late reply.

I used the square wave from the Owon oscilloscope itself and that made the difference. It appears that the output from the square wave generated by the PC was the culprit.

I recently obtained on the local auctio website at a very reasoanable price an older distortion factor meter (only four and a half million people in New Zealand so not that much interest in test gear). Replaced two electrolytic capacitors in the power supply that had dried out and have had lots of fun with the Owon scope and the DFM. The DFM is a cheap way to measure the total noise figure of a tube amplifier - I can measure over -90dB which is good enough (for me). The non-insulated model VDS1022 has been very usefull and is imho a bargain (and the price seems to be dropping at the moment).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 31, 2017, 11:45:13 am
Glad you got it sorted and found the culprit!  :-+ ... and a good score on the distortion factor meter, it sounds as if you've got yourself a nice useable setup now.

If you're worried about PC ground loops (isn't everybody! ::)) then you could look at picking up a cheapish external USB isolator as an alternative to populating the internal PCB isolation components. We established earlier in the thread that both the isolated and non isolated versions use USB 'Full Speed' rather than 'High Speed' so are within the capabilities of the ADUM3160/4160 based ones (ADUM3160 is what is fitted internally on the 'I' version). These isolators look to be around the $10 mark from China now... https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=usb+isolator&_sop=15 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=usb+isolator&_sop=15)

The only issue you might see is their supply current capability. The isolated DC-DC converter inside the 1022I is rated at 2W, the cheap isolators look like they might be only 1W. If it's a problem you could either do a little surgery and patch on a 2W DC-DC, or alternatively hook in a regulated 5V from an isolated power brick the power the scope side.

Just a thought.

Edit: I just heard on the radio that New Zealand was the first country to celebrate the New Year (probably not for the first time! :D). A Happy New Year to you, we still have 11.5 hours to go!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: AmadeusMozart on January 01, 2018, 12:16:02 am
If you're worried about PC ground loops (isn't everybody! ::)) then you could look at picking up a cheapish external USB isolator as an alternative to populating the internal PCB isolation components. We established earlier in the thread that both the isolated and non isolated versions use USB 'Full Speed' rather than 'High Speed' so are within the capabilities of the ADUM3160/4160 based ones (ADUM3160 is what is fitted internally on the 'I' version). These isolators look to be around the $10 mark from China now... https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=usb+isolator&_sop=15 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=usb+isolator&_sop=15)
There are interfaces that provide a DC feed

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Low-noise-USB-Isolator-short-circuit-protection-ADUM4160-Hifi-JTAG-isolation/112195970923?hash=item1a1f66a76b:g:3AUAAOSwPgxVL63g (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Low-noise-USB-Isolator-short-circuit-protection-ADUM4160-Hifi-JTAG-isolation/112195970923?hash=item1a1f66a76b:g:3AUAAOSwPgxVL63g)

However having "grown up" with tube oscilloscopes I do not worry about the isolation. And since I am using a laptop if it is really needed then I can disconnect the laptop from everything else and cover the Owon to protect against touching and then I can use it at a floating level. I'll also be like the Chinese and then use white cotton gloves as an extra attempt against accidentally touching bare metal.

Edit: I just heard on the radio that New Zealand was the first country to celebrate the New Year (probably not for the first time! :D). A Happy New Year to you, we still have 11.5 hours to go!

Happy New year and best wishes for 2018
Marinus
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: eevmike on February 14, 2018, 10:40:24 pm
My thanks to everyone for this thread.  I was looking at the Hantek and now will certainly go with the OWON instead.

- Mike
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: VitaliyKrym on February 17, 2018, 02:44:45 pm
Just bought the VDS1022.
Could not get steady picture on screen. Like no trigger.
Somehow the U12 is not installed. Just empty spot.
After I connect 110VAC via 10:1 probe I had BOOM. Is result my computer is dead (MB, SSD,HDD), on the oscilloscope board jumpers R105, R103 and R90 exploded. No other visible damages.
I replaced them with 10ohm resistors for safety reason. Now on board side it shows 0.3 ohm.
Any idea if it is still possible to fix? What should I check next?
Board is Ver 1.4
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 17, 2018, 05:41:30 pm
I do not mean to seem unkind on your first post, but it is said out of concern. Connecting a scope probe input directly across the mains was a really stupid thing to do! You are not the first newbie to do it though, the mains seems like a magnet to some people :palm:! You should feel very lucky that you didn't do yourself serious harm! Equipment is replaceable, you are not.

Please refer to this video of Dave's to understand what you did...

https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ (https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ)


The same bang would have occurred whatever scope you used. You were unlucky enough to be using a USB one, which extended the damage to the PC too. The USB isolated version (the VDS1022I) would have protected the scope and the PC from damage, but you would still have been at serious risk of electric shock, shorting the mains with your ground clip probably saved you from that. From your list, it sounds like an expensive lesson.

It's very hard to predict what on your scope has been damaged - the mains current will have passed through the ground clip of your scope probe, through the circuit board and via the ground signal of the USB interface to your PC motherboard and the PC Earth connection.

Given the level of damage to the PC, I would expect a similar level of damage to the VDS1022. I would suspect that the chip associated with the USB interface has also been destroyed. I don't know what you are measuring when you say "Now on board side it shows 0.3 ohm." or whether you have replaced the exploded resistors with the correct values. There is no published schematic, so it is difficult to specify individual component IDs that might be affected (I do not have the same board Rev as you). Maybe you can post a photo showing those resistor locations.

If you check that none of the pins of the USB connector (apart from the ground pin) are shorted to ground, then you might try connecting it to the PC and seeing if it is recognized. PC USB ports are quite well protected (apart from shorting mains into them!), but unplug at the first sign of an error message. The driver will need to be installed of course.

If the VDS1022 is still recognized then it should be possible to start testing other functions using a safe signal source., eg, the probe calibration output or a cheap ebay function generator. Given the cost you have already incurred, I would recommend getting the USB isolated version (which still won't make it safe to scope the mains, but will protect the PC from accidentally introducing large low voltage currents via the ground clips).


Edit: I have been re-reading your post and am finding it a bit confusing when you say "just bought" - are you saying that you already have it working again after damaging it with the mains short and are now having triggering problems? If so, were you having them when you first got it?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: VitaliyKrym on February 17, 2018, 07:31:21 pm
I'm not newbie but what I did was really stupid. I don't you scope much. I did not realize the 10:1 probe has one simple resistor and ground goes direct. 0.3 \$\Omega\$measured between 0 and 5v chips supply. The reason I need to see 110/220V. I bought device should be supply 220V 50Hz. and I'm making inverter to meet my needs.
Originally exploded resistors are 0 \$\Omega\$. I put 10 \$\Omega\$ for testing. So all 5V drops across this resistors.
After I bought it I tested in with low voltage signal and found out that picture is no steady. Connected to USB3.0 it cannot be even seen. Much better on USB2.0. And it nothing changes with different trigger level. Would it be possible  the U12 was not install during manufacturing and as result not steady picture. If you give me your e-mail I can send full size board pictures.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 17, 2018, 08:16:59 pm
Ok, I get the picture, I think...

I managed to located R105 at least on one of Mark_O's photos of his Rev 1.4 board (bottom of page 1 of this thread), it is one of the resistors that links the board ground to the USB ground - it bypasses the gap in the grounds that would be there on the isolated model.

If R105 blew open then all of the mains current will have passed through the logic ICs and supply regulators to the USB signal lines and USB Vbus line to the PC. At the very least this will have destroyed the USB interface logic (inside the CPU) and probably most of the rest of the logic, regulators etc. The 0.3 Ohms that you are reading between +5V and 0V is probably the resistance of your meter leads, the board is probably dead short. I don't see any possibility of salvaging the board in these circumstances - it is fried! [Edit: Slight correction, from your photos... R105 is in the 5V USB supply, R90 and R103 are the USB ground link, from the scorch marks, the ground obviously went first, then the +5V, then the USB signals, that was severe!]

It is too late to understand your triggering problems now, it could well have been a settings issue, trigger level / source etc. It wouldn't have been a USB speed related issue as the VDS1022 only requires low USB speed (USB Full speed, not High Speed).

Regarding U12 being missing, this is an analogue video sync separator chip, only used for video mode triggering. I'm not sure why it wasn't fitted, maybe they removed this functionality, I don't know, it was fitted Mark's Rev 1.4 board. As I say, it wouldn't be needed of any normal triggering modes so wouldn't have been the cause of your problem anyway.

There's obviously no way now to check what trigger settings might have been wrong, or even using the 'autoset' function now, sorry.

Maybe you could talk to Owon about having a board with missing U12, they might be generous about the damage issue.


Edit: I have now seen the photos you added, thanks. It confirms my diagnosis above - there was a lot of current involved.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: VitaliyKrym on February 18, 2018, 12:56:05 pm
Thank you for your answer.
I knew the damage is big, at least MC is gone. It is easy to replace it but where to get firmware for it  :-//
Looks like I will get replacement for it (cross fingers) and I don't want to destroy it as well. So here are few questions related to this.
What other differences between 1022 and 1022I exept U37 and U9? What I found else I have metalized sides of board unlike others. This makes oscilloscope case grounded. I was lucky I did not hold it in hands. The strange thing this is same board version.
So on my replacement (if I get it) Im going to install U9 and U37, remove 8 resistors and isolate board from case. Anything else?
I need to be able to see the form of 220V inverter output. VDS1022I rated 400V.
About OWON.
I tried to contact them with no answer.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 18, 2018, 03:00:27 pm
You're welcome, sorry it wasn't a more hopeful one. I think it is still Chinese New Year holiday at the moment, so I wouldn't expect a fast answer from Owon.

Even if you could get a replacement microcontroller, I wouldn't be surprised to find wider damage from the mains voltage passing across the chip, eg. The FPGA, or ADC.

Yes, the 'non-Isolated and Isolated versions share the same PCB. The main differences, as you found, are U37 - ADuM3160 USB Isolator,  U9 - TI DCP020505P 2W DC-DC converter, and removing the components that bypass them. There are some supply decoupling capacitors around U37 but I think they are populated by default - check the chip datasheet.

I'm not sure about costs - particularly sourcing the DC-DC converter. I remember someone did their own conversion earlier in the thread but not sure how much they saved relative to the VDS1022 / VDS1022I purchase price difference. There is also the warranty (3yrs?) to consider.

As you have worked out, the metal case is connected to the BNC connector shields, so yes, it would have become live (I would have hoped that a circuit breaker would have popped by that point, given the level of damage).

I need to be very clear here... The USB isolation is there to protect the scope and the PC against accidental high current ground loops (at low voltage) and to reduce noise pickup from ground loops. Even though the isolation components do have high voltage ratings, it is not intended for floating the scope ground at high voltages! - I would be very stupid to advise you otherwise. Accidents can happen all too easily, as you have found, even when experienced. You could still suffer a very nasty bang and live case if, say, you accidentally connected the ground clip of one probe to Live and the ground clip of the other to Neutral! From your replies, I think you have a good understanding of the risks.

The safe way to scope around mains is with a CAT rated high voltage differential probe... or one of those fancy Fluke portable scopes with individually isolated channels.


P.S. From your second reply it looks as if you are trying to make an "inverter" to power a 220V 50Hz device - I don't know what the device is, but wouldn't a simple step-up transformer do? If it's a 50Hz / 60Hz issue then most things don't care - particularly running a 50Hz device at 60Hz as you are less likely to run into transformer core saturation issues than going to a lower frequency. You ought to be able to sort out phasing on something like that with a meter. Just a thought.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: VitaliyKrym on February 18, 2018, 03:29:21 pm
Then why yours vds1022I is rated 400V input voltage (so you ARE able to apply 220v to 10:1 probes) and what is the reason to supply 10:1 probes (600V rated) with VDS1022 (rated 40V) which has 5v/div without devider. Would I have same damages if connected to laptop(not grounded)? Would you recommend me simple schematic of high voltage devider I can use with 220VAC?
Looks like I had 50% chance to destroy it and I took it by connecting ground clip to "L". If I connected it to "N"... To late anyway.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 18, 2018, 07:04:39 pm
I agree, the spec is confusing - I understand it as 40V peak input protection at the BNC, 400V peak with the included 10:1 probe. I don't know why they choose to specify it differently for the two scopes - they are obviously the same analogue front end circuits.

Quote
....(so you ARE able to apply 220v to 10:1 probes) and what is the reason to supply 10:1 probes (600V rated)...

Sure you are, although I wouldn't want to push the limits of low cost Chinese scope probes too close to their limits - That's NOT the same as connecting it to the Mains though. Most scopes are not CAT rated for mains use... Prospective fault energy (you should know about that by now!), transients etc. That rated voltage is probe tip relative to the ground clip - you have no safe place to put the ground clip if you are scoping mains! There's no guarantee that the Neutral is at the same potential as Earth (Ground), especially in supply fault or transient conditions.

Quote
Would I have same damages if connected to laptop(not grounded)?

Yes, the same unsafe situation - if you accidentally connect the ground clip to Live then all exposed metalwork on the laptop (connector shells etc) become live too. That is why the old practice of lifting the mains ground wires on bench scopes is also forbidden.

USB isolation and floating laptop are both used as methods of breaking ground loops to reduce measurement noise or protecting the equipment against damage from reasonable fault situations. Unfortunately any possibility of connecting the ground clip to Mains Live is NOT a reasonable fault situation!

Quote
Would you recommend me simple schematic of high voltage devider I can use with 220VAC?

This is where the High Voltage Differential Probe comes in, as I indicated previously. It has two 'tip' inputs and no ground clip. It safely translates the difference between the inputs into a signal suitable for feeding into grounded scopes. They carry the appropriate CAT safety ratings.


Direct scoping of the mains is a pretty uncommon thing to do. People who do it are usually equipped with the appropriately CAT rated equipment eg. at least CAT II, 300V for your situation. (MOST scopes are not CAT safety rated). When working on mains equipment an alternative is to use a mains safety isolating transformer to power the DUT (Device under Test), this has it's own risks but the rule is that you always use the isolating transformer to power the DUT, not the test equipment. Using an isolating transformer carries its own risks and need for precautions.

Please review the "How not to blow up your scope" video that I linked (I seem to be doing all the work here) - it covers most of the issues we are talking about here. There are many other safety related threads (including use of Safety Isolation transformers) if you do a forum search.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: fourtytwo42 on March 12, 2018, 04:35:31 pm
Just noticed OWON VDS1022 software revision increased from 1.0.27 to 1.0.28 not sure when it happened, no revision history, downloaded it and have yet to spot the differance :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Daruosha on March 12, 2018, 05:41:30 pm
Just noticed OWON VDS1022 software revision increased from 1.0.27 to 1.0.28 not sure when it happened, no revision history, downloaded it and have yet to spot the differance :)

Perhaps they just fixed a Chinese word spelling and released a new minor release. They are the most laziest T&M manufacture when it comes to supporting and improving their firmwares and softwares.

I don't understand why people buy their stuff and how they are still in the business.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on March 12, 2018, 09:08:12 pm
Just noticed OWON VDS1022 software revision increased from 1.0.27 to 1.0.28 not sure when it happened, no revision history, downloaded it and have yet to spot the differance :)

This version got first got flagged by Nullarbour back in October last year (Reply #211). The main difference seems to be to repair a bug in skin selection that they screwed up in 1.0.27, which previously worked fine! ...

...
The difference in graphics that you show is due to the Black skin being used rather than the Blue one (it can be changed at the top of the Utilities panel). Ironically the only difference I've found so far (versus V1.0.23) is that changing the skin setting seems to have been broken in V1.0.27 and then fixed again in V1.0.28! :wtf:
...

I've been running V1.0.28 since then without significant problems - I think I encountered a crash when trying to stop and save an image. I can't remember the detail now but it don't think it happened on V1.0.23.

I have copies of the released (there are gaps) s/w distributions going back to V1.0.4 if anyone wants to play detective (it's interesting to open the .exe files as archives using 7zip or whatever and look inside). I don't think it's worth using anything before V1.0.23 which I've never found a bug in,  V1.0.11 at the very earliest (that one, I know, fixed a menu bug that I reported), V1.0.27 as I said, has the skin selection bug.

It really is annoying that they don't publish a change log!


EDIT: I may as well upload anyway - it would be useful if a few other people also had backups in case of loss. Run whatever scans you feel appropriate, I've run AVG and Malwarebytes on them....

https://ufile.io/70a4d (https://ufile.io/70a4d)  (Available for 30 days)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on March 16, 2018, 12:29:13 am
Just for fun: OS X updates

https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022

Busy year, so this got neglected. But I had a fresh install of 'macOS' (10.13.3) and thought I'd plug the scope in and fix up the scripts.

Fixes:
- Dumb typo - 'Owen'  :wtf:
- Latest 1.0.29 release.
- Added missing usbLib files.
- Changed the bootstrap script from pure 'bash' to AppleScript & 'bash' to simplify the driver install*.

(* I think later OS X builds are stricter for arbitrary folder access, so we need to elevate the privileges when copying the usblib files. Using just bash would never show the sudo password prompt, so instead it'll prompt to run the script instead.)

Remember to run a calibration.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on March 16, 2018, 12:34:22 am
I spotted 1.0.23 -> 1.0.29 that 'com.google.gson_2.1.0.v201203072145.jar' has appeared.
Are they calling home now?

I hadn't seen/used any build between those versions, so dont know when it was added.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: piotr99 on March 18, 2018, 01:49:17 pm
Just for fun: OS X updates
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022
Busy year, so this got neglected. But I had a fresh install of 'macOS' (10.13.3) and thought I'd plug the scope in and fix up the scripts.

CatWhisker many thanks for the upgrade.

I don't have VDS1022 yet but I plan to buy it. I have just installed the application on my MacBook Air according to your description.
It seems to be working properly, but I had to change the folder as below:

OSX:
Copy libusbpp-legacy-0.1.4.dylib to /opt/local/lib/libusb-legacy/ (Note: On OS X, these folders may need creating)
Copy libusb-0.1.4.dylib to /usr/local/lib
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: The_Boots on March 18, 2018, 07:57:29 pm
Question for any 1022 owners: I just got one of these, but it periodically pops an error message up and had to reconnect. I'm assuming that's not normal, but thought I'd check if anyone else has this issue.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on March 18, 2018, 08:13:24 pm
It seems to be working properly, but I had to change the folder as below:

Copy libusb-0.1.4.dylib to /usr/local/lib

That should only apply only to the manual install guide. Thanks for spotting that.

Most OS X users should just grab the Owon-VDS-OSX.zip and use that.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on March 18, 2018, 08:27:53 pm
Question for any 1022 owners: I just got one of these, but it periodically pops an error message up and had to reconnect. I'm assuming that's not normal, but thought I'd check if anyone else has this issue.

No, not a common problem I don't think. The 1022 is very undemanding in terms of USB bandwidth etc.

A couple of points that come to mind...

- USB port, try another one. Maybe the socket has got loose and is glitching the power. Does wiggling the USB connector provoke anything?  Power requirement is under 400mA so shouldn't be an issue, even for older laptops.

- Assuming that you do not have the USB isolated 1022I, do you have a ground loop that is injecting current via the USB ground. Does it coincide with attaching probe ground clips, does it still happen with probes isolated.

- What os version and S/W version are you running? Does anything in particular provoke the problem?

That's about all I can think of, off hand.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: VitaliyKrym on March 18, 2018, 10:40:49 pm
I had same issue with periodical reconnecting. After I converted it to "I" this issue disappeared. 
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: The_Boots on March 18, 2018, 11:07:39 pm
Yes, it happens with other USB ports, no it doesn't happen when I jiggle the USB cable.

I'm not entirely surprised. I got it used directly from Amazon ("Like new"). I think it was returned, and I may have an explanation why.  :)
So much for getting a good deal, now I need to decide what I'm going to do for a working Oscilloscope...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: The_Boots on March 19, 2018, 12:47:39 am
Good to know. Due to various circumstances, Amazon offered to send me a non-used one, and they said since the shipping on a 1022 put it over the price of an I, they ended up sending me the isolated version. Can't complain. Hopefully it solves my problem, too!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on March 19, 2018, 10:16:38 am
Quote
... and they said since the shipping on a 1022 put it over the price of an I, they ended up sending me the isolated version.

That sounds like a win!  :-+

Ground loops can be a real issue for any non-isolated usb connected equipment - up to and including total destruction of the scope and PC (see Reply #225 as just one extreme example).

 You may want to investigate a little further - try putting a meter between a connector shield on your computer and to point where you were connecting your ground clip and see if there is any voltage present (DC and AC). It may give an insight into the possible ground loop path. It's a worthwhile exercise (educational at least) in case you pick up a low cost logic analyser or other equipment. I suspect that in your case, the voltage will be very low, but the loop resistance is also low, so surprising currents can still flow, enough to disrupt USB comms.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on March 19, 2018, 03:56:26 pm
Question for any 1022 owners: I just got one of these, but it periodically pops an error message up and had to reconnect. I'm assuming that's not normal, but thought I'd check if anyone else has this issue.
No, not a common problem I don't think. The 1022 is very undemanding in terms of USB bandwidth etc.

I second this. I had mine running for the last ~4 hours to check if it happened to me - still stable.

Rather than another USB port, I suggest another PC if possible - drivers, internal hubs, shared chipset - can be a pig if the device is easily startled.
Especially if you have any funky USB stuff installed (USB sniffers, Wireshark USB tools, VM tools and the like).

FYI: Using 1.0.29 build on OS X.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on March 19, 2018, 08:11:55 pm
...
- Latest 1.0.29 release.

Remember to run a calibration. ...

I don't have apple stuff, but nonetheless thank you CatWhisker for the info on the latest release AND ESPECIALLY the reminder to recalibrate.

I was having problems with my OWON 1022:

- DC levels were off by a long shot (showing say 9 volts instead of 5 volts)
- When in AC mode, the NULL level of the traces shifted up in steps when changing
  sensitivity (50mV, 100mV, etc). This repeated itself starting with 1V again from NULL. That was strange, so I decided to look here.

I thought my Owon hat gotten defective and was contemplating calling the vendor.
I installed the 1.0.29 software and went into the calibration mode.
It got stuck there on about 20% of the bar. I left it on for an hour.

Frustrated, I re-booted and erased all traces of the OWON software on the Netbook and Registry (it's windows 7).
In hindsight: this Netbook has no access to the internet, so it might have to do with this, since you mentioned the new version may want to "phone home".
Well spotted if I may say!

I installed version 28 and went into calibration mode. It went well and the DC levels
are correct again and the the AC levels at NULL are solid now too when switching through the voltage range.

I was very relieved about this, but have no clue as to what had gone wrong.

If something like this happens again I will film it.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on March 19, 2018, 08:16:44 pm
Question for any 1022 owners: I just got one of these, but it periodically pops an error message up and had to reconnect. I'm assuming that's not normal, but thought I'd check if anyone else has this issue.

I have this problem, but rarely. I just unplug and plug in again.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on March 19, 2018, 08:25:27 pm
Quote
... and they said since the shipping on a 1022 put it over the price of an I, they ended up sending me the isolated version.

That sounds like a win!  :-+

Ground loops can be a real issue for any non-isolated usb connected equipment - up to and including total destruction of the scope and PC (see Reply #225 as just one extreme example).

 You may want to investigate a little further - try putting a meter between a connector shield on your computer and to point where you were connecting your ground clip and see if there is any voltage present (DC and AC). It may give an insight into the possible ground loop path. It's a worthwhile exercise (educational at least) in case you pick up a low cost logic analyser or other equipment. I suspect that in your case, the voltage will be very low, but the loop resistance is also low, so surprising currents can still flow, enough to disrupt USB comms.

Interesting!
I just measured this with my simple means and get the following values:
32mV (from USB metal to probe GND)
2.4mA (from USB metal to probe GND)

Hope I measured this right.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on March 19, 2018, 09:16:45 pm
Interesting, as you say. The 32mV measurement confirms that there are no floating supplies, Y cap leakages etc. involved, ie. everything is grounded.

The fact that you were able to measure 2.4mA though a DMM current range (with its reasonably high value internal shunt resistor) implies that with a low impedance connection through the ground clip and PC ground the current could be significantly higher. It shows that 'Ground' really never is, when you consider voltage drops across current carrying conductors. There might also be some higher frequency currents involved that your meter wouldn't be able to detect.

This sort of low voltage, low impedance, hash is just the sort of thing that USB isolation is useful for, both to prevent circulating ground currents and reducing measurement noise.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on March 28, 2018, 11:32:40 pm
In hindsight: this Netbook has no access to the internet, so it might have to do with this, since you mentioned the new version may want to "phone home".

Poking around at the source, there is no 'phone home' feature - the devs are just leveraging GSON library as a better/cleaner mechanism for storing settings.

That's not to say the Google library isn't itself phoning Google, I havn't looked there yet, but at least Owon are behaving here.


In other news, for OS X users: If anyone wants to try a 'native' style package, grab the WIP archive from https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022 (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022)
Notes:
Some features (like 'save to bitmap') doesn't work yet.
Driver install isn't done.
'Help' works (re-packed as a PDF, rather than CHM).
'Update' button removed.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on March 31, 2018, 02:44:22 pm
There seems to be a problem with the 1.0.29 Software.

I installed it and tried calibrating again. It gets stuck at the beginning now.
There is no change in behaviour when the netbook is connected to the internet,
so it has nothing to do with my netbook not being online before.

When clicking "cancel" and then "yes" to the stuck calibration procedure, nothing happens. I had to kill it with the task manager.

I deleted all files of the Owon and installed Version 28 again.
The calibration works just fine again in this version.

Any ideas?

Happy Easter!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on March 31, 2018, 02:51:22 pm
Interesting, as you say. The 32mV measurement confirms that there are no floating supplies, Y cap leakages etc. involved, ie. everything is grounded.

The fact that you were able to measure 2.4mA though a DMM current range (with its reasonably high value internal shunt resistor) implies that with a low impedance connection through the ground clip and PC ground the current could be significantly higher. It shows that 'Ground' really never is, when you consider voltage drops across current carrying conductors. There might also be some higher frequency currents involved that your meter wouldn't be able to detect.

This sort of low voltage, low impedance, hash is just the sort of thing that USB isolation is useful for, both to prevent circulating ground currents and reducing measurement noise.

Thank you Gyro. I will keep an eye on that, hopefully learning more.

Does what you're saying mean that all "normal" NON-ISOLATED oscilloscopes
are somewhat inferior to the isolated ones (which are quite rare)?

Thank You!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on March 31, 2018, 04:58:48 pm
Haha, well I think you'd get some get some indignation from folks with "normal" scopes that their units were "somewhat inferior"  ;)

However, yes, any system which involves ground loops, particularly where that loop path passes through mains ground is subject to issues. Audio systems, for instance, tend to suffer from hum problems if audio ground connects to mains ground in both 'sources' and amplifiers. What it does mean is that you need to always take ground loops into account when measuring - one of the reasons why many Bench PSUs have floating output and separate mains ground terminal. The ideal is to have the 'system' reference to mains ground at a single point, often not possible in the real world with several pieces of grounded test equipment and debugging on a piece of equipment that is also mains ground referenced. Not a show stopper, but something certainly to be aware of.

The problem is particularly bad with USB instruments though. Computer USB ports are fairly fragile, the USB spec specifies that the outer braid and connector shells should only be grounded at the PC end so, for instruments that follow the spec, the only ground return path is the little black wire in the USB cable. In fault situations where significant current flows through the earth clip, the black wire fries, followed almost instantly by the USB 5V and data signals! It also means that noise levels can be higher than integrated bench type scopes. That makes the USB isolation in the Owon (I) versions highly desirable, as far as I'm aware they are the only low cost USB scopes that can do this, Hanteks (not sure about the Siglent Analog discovery products I haven't looked into them) and the like like rely on lots of USB bandwidth - beyond the reach of current USB isolator chips.

Sorry, I'm rambling a bit. In terms of noise, it isn't too critical for an 8 bit scope like the VDS1022(I), but the isolation does give some benefit and most importantly in protecting the PC from damage. Any situation where a low voltage low impedance current could potentially flow through the ground loop will benefit from isolation.

Once you get into the realms of sensitive or precision measurements are involved, then various measures become applicable, I mentioned single point system grounding, there are also differential probes for common mode rejection, decent bench meters have floating inputs with a separate guard terminal, both screened from mains ground, etc.

Thanks for flagging the bug in the 1.0.29 S/W it adds to the group inteligence in lieu of release notes! - Owon do seem pretty accident prone. You may have seen a few posts back, that I uploaded my collection of previous S/W versions  (I see it still has a week to run). If you have any problems with 1.0.28, then I used 1.0.23 for a long time without noticing any issues... https://uploadfiles.io/70a4d (https://uploadfiles.io/70a4d) (appropriate virus check cautions apply!).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Riaj159 on July 11, 2018, 06:49:25 pm
recently i have opened up my OWON VDS1022(non isolation version) as there was nothing left in my home for teardown & discovered that copper strip is not making any contact with the outer shell that should act as a Electromagnetic shield. i have fixed that issue,all owner of OWON VDS1022/OWON VDS1022i should check for it.also discovered  that lowest volts/div(5mv) without any probe the amount of average noise vpp&vrms depends on the computer/laptop usb ports. some ports induce less noise,some ports induce more noise,you have to discover which usb port is best for your lowest volts/div measurement.some channel are also by born more noise free then other channel,for example my channel 1 with settings(5mv volts/div,1ms,DC,without any probe,persistence: infinite & make sure that other channel is off.if you turn on other channel or turn on other channel and make it off again in that case you will not get much lower sensitivity until you power off the device and turn on with only that by born less noisy channel) i can get vpp: .600mv vrms: .138mv where my 2nd channel never reach close to that level what ever i do.Someone have success with owon VDS1022 software to run on OSX & Debian, i have tried on raspbian but no success(software works but device not found),is there any one who have tried owon VDS1022 on Raspberry Pi??? it will be then great DIY  handheld oscilloscope with display & touch interface!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 12, 2018, 06:18:48 pm
Interesting input Riaj159,  I guess that copper strip is easily damaged by the sharp front edge of the Aluminium case shell extrusion whenever the board is inserted.

My early revision VDS1022I (photos on page 1 of this thread) didn't have the copper strip fitted, it was a later addition (it was there by the revision that Mark_O purchased). I checked today, and my case is reliably floating relative to the front panel ground.

Your post reminded me that I need to do some noise comparisons on my 'I' version to see what effect grounding the case to input ground has at low levels. On the one hand, the floating case makes accidents less likely, on the other, it may increase noise and if it does suffer insulation breakdown then I'm uncertain what part of the board would be 'struck' first. Not a problem in practice as it would be very bad to float the ground leads on any scope to anywhere near enough voltage to cause insulation breakdown, even a well isolated one.

I'm also curious about the progress on other platforms, it's all gone a bit quiet. I'm now a Raspberry Pi owner too and I agree, it would make a very nice portable touch screen setup.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Riaj159 on July 13, 2018, 04:50:44 am
tnx gyro for reply,I am also interested about the effect of grounding the case on the isolated version.what if i replace the on board 100mhz clock with 125mhz clock for the sake of overclocking the ADC??? my unit have the MXT2088(equivalent to AD9288 ). hantek dso5102p oscilloscope actually use same ADC but let them run at 125mhz by overclocking so that they can achieve 1gsps with 8 ADC(physically 4 AD9288 ).Though 125mhz might not be guaranteed to achievable due to stability in every case & what will be the consequence on the FPGA site is unknown,also owon software might be another issue related to time base(maybe there is hope as owon software released with code? ).currently don't have any 125mhz near clock source,but it’s just a thought...or i'm too greedy for extra bandwidth  ::)  >:D .
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 13, 2018, 08:05:56 pm
Haha, yes, I think you are too greedy for extra bandwidth - actually you mean sample rate, the bandwidth is a measure of the analogue input stage frequency response and rise time.

I don't know for sure, but I think overclocking at 125MHz without changes to the FPGA code or PC software would lead to some strange results. At minimum I think all the measurements and timebases would be off. I don't think anyone has reverse engineered the FPGA code.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Riaj159 on July 17, 2018, 11:43:09 am
tnx for sharing your opinion gyro :) :) :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: noopwafel on August 21, 2018, 08:06:54 am
I got a VDS1022I very cheaply from aliexpress recently. It's a nice toy and really portable which is great; thanks for all the commentary in this thread, I appreciated it. Not yet sure if it has actual value as a scope but we'll see.. :)

To talk to it over USB, you just need to upload the bitstream and then send a bunch of pretty simple commands. I started work on a sigrok driver a few days ago; I plan to finish+upstream it, but just in case I get bored first then I'll keep the unfinished code on my github for anyone who comes after me (right now it's a mess which just hard-codes all the settings, but hey, the signal *looks* OK in pulseview as long as you don't look at the scale).

It looks like the VDS1022(I), the VDS2052 and the RDS1021 are all very similar ('tiny' models), with this 5K internal buffer on an internal MCU. They seem to need slightly different commands but hopefully adding support for the other models should be simple enough if anyone ever wants this. :)

The higher-end models ('smart' models: VDS 2062,2064,3102,3104) seem to be very different, and they talk SCPI instead.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: svetlov on August 25, 2018, 04:13:08 pm
 Hello dear! How can you solve the problem of spontaneous disconnection of 1022 from the control program in a few minutes   use? the device I have more than two years and this problem is not corrected with the update of the software - this is repeated on different    computers under Windows 10
Thank you ::)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: nzasch on September 06, 2018, 03:26:44 pm
@noopwafel have you managed to initialize it following the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual" ?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: noopwafel on September 07, 2018, 08:47:44 am
Quote from: nzasch on Today at 01:26:44 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=52992.msg1804022#msg1804022)
@noopwafel have you managed to initialize it following the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual" ?


No, the 'tiny' scopes don't seem to support anything that complicated, they just provide chunks of raw data from the FPGA and you need to do quite a lot of initialization/configuration (including uploading the FPGA bitstream and downloading the calibration data - they don't even handle the calibration internally). They will reset themselves (which I guess might be responsible for disconnections) if the host doesn't send a command for more than a few seconds, or the communication desynchronizes. My VDS1022I will keep capturing for quite a long time (via USB2) via my sigrok driver without any apparent problems, but I didn't try the Windows software for more than a few minutes (just enough to get a packet capture).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: nzasch on September 11, 2018, 10:33:01 am
I'm trying to write a C client with libusb for measurements, but after finding+opening the device, the device reply is the same whatever command I send (START, STARTBIN ecc). if I try to bulkread the data, it gives usb timeout.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: AbirFaisal on September 19, 2018, 02:33:44 am
I'm trying to write a C client with libusb for measurements, but after finding+opening the device, the device reply is the same whatever command I send (START, STARTBIN ecc). if I try to bulkread the data, it gives usb timeout.


This is an older version of the OWON software which includes the original source code. Create a breakpoint in the Main file in owon.vds.tiny then debug it. When you get to the initialization code watch the steps carefully and emulate it in your own software.



https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/blob/129a3b4582030e3c52d49969dcf5059f0e2a3fb6/Owon-VDS1022-OSX.zip (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/blob/129a3b4582030e3c52d49969dcf5059f0e2a3fb6/Owon-VDS1022-OSX.zip)


As a side not they have Chinese comments in the code which I put through google translate. One of the comments speak about porting to Android so I wonder when they'll have that ready. 1022i + Cheap android tablet + battery pack is basically like having a handheld portable oscilloscope.





Quote from: nzasch on Today at 01:26:44 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=52992.msg1804022#msg1804022)
@noopwafel have you managed to initialize it following the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual" ?


No, the 'tiny' scopes don't seem to support anything that complicated, they just provide chunks of raw data from the FPGA and you need to do quite a lot of initialization/configuration (including uploading the FPGA bitstream and downloading the calibration data - they don't even handle the calibration internally). They will reset themselves (which I guess might be responsible for disconnections) if the host doesn't send a command for more than a few seconds, or the communication desynchronizes. My VDS1022I will keep capturing for quite a long time (via USB2) via my sigrok driver without any apparent problems, but I didn't try the Windows software for more than a few minutes (just enough to get a packet capture).


noopwafel can you quickly describe your build environment? I can't seem to get your libsigrok working. Not asking for much I just want to know exactly what versions of pulseview, libsigrokdecode, libserialport that you are using so I can get it to work with your driver. Thanks.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: AbirFaisal on September 28, 2018, 04:02:23 pm
So I modified the software a bit. Just a UI change for now:


https://github.com/AbirFaisal/RealScope/releases/download/VDS-1.0.23_RS-0.1.0/Working.zip


Source: https://github.com/AbirFaisal/RealScope

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Pluscrafter on October 11, 2018, 06:35:17 pm
Had anyone get the VDS 1022I worked on Linux? I've use Ubuntu 18.04.1 and had tried https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022 and it doesn't work after following the instructions. My lsusb shows my scope as a Owon PDS6062T.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on October 20, 2018, 12:33:18 pm
I've just noticed that version 1.0.30 of the VDS1022(i) windows s/w is up on the Owon site, it's apparently been there since July. As usual, no release notes but it hopefully fixes problems in 1.0.29.

I've installed it but not hooked it up to the scope yet - I can't see any feature differences though.

http://www.owon.com.hk/supports_pc_software (http://www.owon.com.hk/supports_pc_software)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: CatWhisker on October 26, 2018, 04:46:28 pm
Had anyone get the VDS 1022I worked on Linux? I've use Ubuntu 18.04.1 and had tried https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022 (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022) and it doesn't work after following the instructions. My lsusb shows my scope as a Owon PDS6062T.

FYI, the "PDS6062T" listing is just part of the lookup table in the Linux kernel, because it shares the same PID/VID. AFAIK, that's all it shares though.
We could possibly email the usb id's maintainer to make it generic? PDS6062T Oscilloscope -> OWON USB Oscilloscope
http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids (http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids)

GreySpammer-Tir had success/progress I believe in getting the USB driver working:
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/issues/6#issuecomment-433426973 (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/issues/6#issuecomment-433426973)

I'm yet to find time to revisit the Linux package, but I'll probably sort a script over the holiday period.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Pluscrafter on October 26, 2018, 04:49:11 pm
Had anyone get the VDS 1022I worked on Linux? I've use Ubuntu 18.04.1 and had tried https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022 (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022) and it doesn't work after following the instructions. My lsusb shows my scope as a Owon PDS6062T.

FYI, the "PDS6062T" listing is just part of the lookup table in the Linux kernel, because it shares the same PID/VID. AFAIK, that's all it shares though.
We could possibly email the usb id's maintainer to make it generic? PDS6062T Oscilloscope -> OWON USB Oscilloscope
http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids (http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids)

GreySpammer-Tir had success/progress I believe in getting the USB driver working:
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/issues/6#issuecomment-433426973 (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/issues/6#issuecomment-433426973)

I'm yet to find time to revisit the Linux package, but I'll probably sort a script over the holiday period.
That would be very appreciating :)

Gesendet von meinem G8341 mit Tapatalk

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 10, 2018, 01:09:16 pm
At the request of another member, I have uploaded my personal unofficial archive of previous VDS1022(I) PC software versions to Uploadfiles.io again. The files have been checked with AVG and Malwarebytes but take it at your own risk.

The URL is ...  https://ufile.io/v2ytf (https://ufile.io/v2ytf)  It will be there for the next 30 days again, so grab it if you want it.

I don't know which versions included the source code (or whether they still do). The individual .exe's can be opened as a 7zip archives anyway so, if interested, you can take a look.


P.S. If anyone can work out how to change the 'Save waveform' button on the main screen from saving a .txt  to saving an image file, you'll make me a very happy camper - it's a pain having to go to the Utility menu to do it!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: DDunfield on December 16, 2018, 12:10:40 pm
Just picked up a VDS1022I to live in my laptop bag for all the times when "I didn't think I'd need to bring a scope".

Kudos to OWON for making a low-cost USB box called "Oscilloscope" which appears to actually have an oscilloscope in it! I've tried a few others and they have been universally terrible, appearing to be nothing more than USB sampling/streaming devices which "don't quite" send a consistent stream of samples to bad PC software.

This one seems much better (ie: It actually works!).

Have seen a few glitches in the software, most of which are livable, however I've encountered one thing that as really annoying, and I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this and/or if workarounds are known.

Problem is when I want to "zoom in" on a captured waveform .. With the scope stopped, I can change the horizontal timebase and pan around an expanded image ... SOMETIMES ... certain captures just don't let me do this. For example, if I capture at 100us/div, I can "zoom" to 10us/div (10 times). But I can't capture at 1000us/div (1ms/div) and zoom to 100us/div ... just no change in the displayed waveform.

Second part of the problem is when I want to proceed and perform another capture after stopping and zooming. Upon hitting "start", the software freezes, and does one of:
  - Hang forever
  - Long delay (often minutes) then "just terminate"
  - Long delay (as above) then scope disconnects and reconnects and capture proceeds

My scope came with software version 1.0.29 .. I've tried the latest (1.0.30) and several previous releases all with the same results.

Going back as far as 1.0.23, I get different (and better) results:

- Scope almost always lets me zoom, no matter what the capture rate.
- Still has trouble starting another capture, but device disconnects/reconnects within a few seconds and capture proceeds.

So, 1.0.23 is workable, but I wonder what "fixes" I'm giving up...

Has anyone else encountered this?  Any workarounds?

Is there a better way to zoom in on a captured waveform that I just haven't found?
It would have been really nice if they made the "zoom" function in the horizontal menu work as a zoom/review when the scope is stopped instead of just telling you to screw off and come back when the scope is running.

Regards,
Dave
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: martinloren2 on December 18, 2018, 10:51:42 am
I've found that the latest VDS1022 firmware seems do not allow incremental transfer of the new data in slow sampling rate mode. It just continuously write on the 5K data buffer in loop without any indication of the current cursor position |O. This make impossible to do continuous data recording and if so it's a bit a pity for so well equipped hardware.

Any hint about this?

By the way I'm implementing the support for the VDS1022 under Android. I'm wondering if any wish to do some test :bullshit:, I may provide some promo codes to the first who ask @ support[at]martinloren.com. It requires USB OTG and maybe some powered USB HUB if phone current from USB is not enough :D.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 18, 2018, 10:01:35 pm
Just picked up a VDS1022I to live in my laptop bag for all the times when "I didn't think I'd need to bring a scope".

Kudos to OWON for making a low-cost USB box called "Oscilloscope" which appears to actually have an oscilloscope in it! I've tried a few others and they have been universally terrible, appearing to be nothing more than USB sampling/streaming devices which "don't quite" send a consistent stream of samples to bad PC software.

This one seems much better (ie: It actually works!).

Have seen a few glitches in the software, most of which are livable, however I've encountered one thing that as really annoying, and I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this and/or if workarounds are known.

Problem is when I want to "zoom in" on a captured waveform .. With the scope stopped, I can change the horizontal timebase and pan around an expanded image ... SOMETIMES ... certain captures just don't let me do this. For example, if I capture at 100us/div, I can "zoom" to 10us/div (10 times). But I can't capture at 1000us/div (1ms/div) and zoom to 100us/div ... just no change in the displayed waveform.

Second part of the problem is when I want to proceed and perform another capture after stopping and zooming. Upon hitting "start", the software freezes, and does one of:
  - Hang forever
  - Long delay (often minutes) then "just terminate"
  - Long delay (as above) then scope disconnects and reconnects and capture proceeds

My scope came with software version 1.0.29 .. I've tried the latest (1.0.30) and several previous releases all with the same results.

Going back as far as 1.0.23, I get different (and better) results:

- Scope almost always lets me zoom, no matter what the capture rate.
- Still has trouble starting another capture, but device disconnects/reconnects within a few seconds and capture proceeds.

So, 1.0.23 is workable, but I wonder what "fixes" I'm giving up...

Has anyone else encountered this?  Any workarounds?

Is there a better way to zoom in on a captured waveform that I just haven't found?
It would have been really nice if they made the "zoom" function in the horizontal menu work as a zoom/review when the scope is stopped instead of just telling you to screw off and come back when the scope is running.

Regards,
Dave

Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.

Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes...  The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.

I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?

I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 18, 2018, 10:13:51 pm
I've found that the latest VDS1022 firmware seems do not allow incremental transfer of the new data in slow sampling rate mode. It just continuously write on the 5K data buffer in loop without any indication of the current cursor position |O. This make impossible to do continuous data recording and if so it's a bit a pity for so well equipped hardware.

Any hint about this?

By the way I'm implementing the support for the VDS1022 under Android. I'm wondering if any wish to do some test :bullshit:, I may provide some promo codes to the first who ask @ support[at]martinloren.com. It requires USB OTG and maybe some powered USB HUB if phone current from USB is not enough :D.

That sounds like a good idea - I know there are a few folks playing around with porting to linux, potentially for the Raspberry Pi as a portable solution. Unfortunately there is very little known about the FPGA bitstream and f/w apart from observing it as you are. There must surely be a mechanism at work otherwise there would be no way of syncing correctly to the display. No idea about any USB OTG implications.

Sorry, it's not my area but hopefully one of the Linux guys may more idea.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: martinloren2 on December 19, 2018, 10:48:50 am
There must surely be a mechanism at work otherwise there would be no way of syncing correctly to the display.

It seems that the current mechanism is simply to plot on screen the 5K sample buffer as it is. The FPGA write on the buffer in a loop and send it properly shifted to the App that simply show is as is on the screen. No synchronization required, it just show you the fixed buffer while it is overwritten with new values. So visually maybe your eyes can follow it but programmatically it may require cross correlation with a window made of a group of latest samples  :palm:.

The other option would be if other commands are present in the firmware (but not used buy the current software). In the original jar package there is a class called InfiniteGetData that seems to do this but seems also to be old, it is unused and if send these commands to the device they does not work.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: DDunfield on December 19, 2018, 04:19:52 pm
Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.

Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes...  The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.

I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?

I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.

Thanks for the info. So far I've not noticed anything new past 1.0.23 either.

I have tried setting the timebase back to the original capture before proceeding, and it still hangs. Very odd - even 5k points is worth being able to zoom in (my TDS210 has only 2.5k and I zoom in with it all the time).

I'd be curious to know if you can reproduce the issue - just do a capture, stop the scope, adjust horizontal to "zoom in", then just start the scope again. For me it hangs very often. 1.0.23 recovers quite quickly, but you will still see a reconnecting message ... just would like to confirm it's not something "special" about my scope/setup.

Dave
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: DDunfield on December 19, 2018, 04:27:40 pm
I've found that the latest VDS1022 firmware seems do not allow incremental transfer of the new data in slow sampling rate mode. It just continuously write on the 5K data buffer in loop without any indication of the current cursor position |O. This make impossible to do continuous data recording and if so it's a bit a pity for so well equipped hardware.

Any hint about this?

By the way I'm implementing the support for the VDS1022 under Android. I'm wondering if any wish to do some test :bullshit:, I may provide some promo codes to the first who ask @ support[at]martinloren.com. It requires USB OTG and maybe some powered USB HUB if phone current from USB is not enough :D.

They obviously go into a different capture mode at slower than 50ms / division. Mine switches to continuous no-trigger roll mode.

It is common for digital scopes to capture a buffer, then stop and display it, and I guess they decided the delay between trigger and end of capture/display was too long at slower rates. My UT-81B does the same thing, at 100ms/div and below it no longer triggers, but captures continuously.

I don't know why they don't do it better, as losing triggering at slow rates is annoying.

I designed a little STM32 based scope, and while capturing, I just watch the DMA  buffer pointer registers and display the data as it gets buffered. At high rates, the display lags the actual capture, but it's still just as fast (slightly faster) than waiting for the whole capture before dumping the buffer, and there's no issue with slow rates - the display gets updated as the samples come in....

I would be very interested in an Android port - I would love to be able to use this thing with a tablet. I have an OTG adapter which provides a USB host port, and can provide external power, I think it would probably work fine for interfacing to the scope.

Dave
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 19, 2018, 05:48:17 pm
Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.

Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes...  The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.

I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?

I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.

Thanks for the info. So far I've not noticed anything new past 1.0.23 either.

I have tried setting the timebase back to the original capture before proceeding, and it still hangs. Very odd - even 5k points is worth being able to zoom in (my TDS210 has only 2.5k and I zoom in with it all the time).

I'd be curious to know if you can reproduce the issue - just do a capture, stop the scope, adjust horizontal to "zoom in", then just start the scope again. For me it hangs very often. 1.0.23 recovers quite quickly, but you will still see a reconnecting message ... just would like to confirm it's not something "special" about my scope/setup.

Dave

Sorry for my lethargy last night, I'm fighting a bit of an infection.

Odd, I had installed 1.0.30 when I saw it, but hadn't got as far as plugging in the VDS. I just tried it (1kHz cal, Ch1) and came up with some strange results. It auto triggered ok, but when I hit stop and then clicked on the timebase it crashed immediately and repeatably. For some reason single trace was greyed out too.

I uninstalled 1.0.30 and installed 1.0.29, tried exactly the same and it worked perfectly. Manual or single trigger, whatever timebase I zoomed to after stopping and restarting. Never flinched.

Thinking it was another introduced 'breakage' I was set to confirming it by re-installing 1.0.30 (uninstalling 1.0.29 first). To my surprise if now finding that 1.0.30 works perfectly too.  ???  I've tried it many times in succession with across a silly range of zooms / unzooms and it hasn't missed a beat.

The only differences I can think of are..

1. I did the first 1.0.30 installation 'cold', thinking I must get around to plugging in and checking that (in fact I had to use the install F/W option before it would see the VDS). I think it may actually have been a 'clean install' as I've only recently brought this laptop up. This time, I did all the uninstalls / reinstalls with the VDS still plugged in.
2. The VDS had a few minutes to warm up before I uninstalled 1.0.29
3. 1.0.29 might have left something in the registry that 1.0.30 needs?

This is all on Win7 SP1 64bit pro by the way.

You might want to check for USB supply voltage, but I'm pushing my luck with a 3m USB cable at the moment so that sounds unlikely. Maybe try a different port though.

Sorry I couldn't give you a definitive they broke it in Version xxxx.


P.S. Just to be clear, I haven't seen any reconnect message - I think you may indeed have a setup issue.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: DDunfield on December 27, 2018, 03:12:44 am
Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.

Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes...  The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.

I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?

I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.

Thanks for the info. So far I've not noticed anything new past 1.0.23 either.

I have tried setting the timebase back to the original capture before proceeding, and it still hangs. Very odd - even 5k points is worth being able to zoom in (my TDS210 has only 2.5k and I zoom in with it all the time).

I'd be curious to know if you can reproduce the issue - just do a capture, stop the scope, adjust horizontal to "zoom in", then just start the scope again. For me it hangs very often. 1.0.23 recovers quite quickly, but you will still see a reconnecting message ... just would like to confirm it's not something "special" about my scope/setup.

Dave

Sorry for my lethargy last night, I'm fighting a bit of an infection.

Odd, I had installed 1.0.30 when I saw it, but hadn't got as far as plugging in the VDS. I just tried it (1kHz cal, Ch1) and came up with some strange results. It auto triggered ok, but when I hit stop and then clicked on the timebase it crashed immediately and repeatably. For some reason single trace was greyed out too.

I uninstalled 1.0.30 and installed 1.0.29, tried exactly the same and it worked perfectly. Manual or single trigger, whatever timebase I zoomed to after stopping and restarting. Never flinched.

Thinking it was another introduced 'breakage' I was set to confirming it by re-installing 1.0.30 (uninstalling 1.0.29 first). To my surprise if now finding that 1.0.30 works perfectly too.  ???  I've tried it many times in succession with across a silly range of zooms / unzooms and it hasn't missed a beat.

The only differences I can think of are..

1. I did the first 1.0.30 installation 'cold', thinking I must get around to plugging in and checking that (in fact I had to use the install F/W option before it would see the VDS). I think it may actually have been a 'clean install' as I've only recently brought this laptop up. This time, I did all the uninstalls / reinstalls with the VDS still plugged in.
2. The VDS had a few minutes to warm up before I uninstalled 1.0.29
3. 1.0.29 might have left something in the registry that 1.0.30 needs?

This is all on Win7 SP1 64bit pro by the way.

You might want to check for USB supply voltage, but I'm pushing my luck with a 3m USB cable at the moment so that sounds unlikely. Maybe try a different port though.

Sorry I couldn't give you a definitive they broke it in Version xxxx.

P.S. Just to be clear, I haven't seen any reconnect message - I think you may indeed have a setup issue.

Very strange... I've tried it on four different systems now with exactly the same results.
I too am using Win7-64 Pro (and on some of the systems Win7-64 home).

I've tried the cable that came with it, as well as other cables.
I measure about 0.36 amps, which is well within the 500ma spec. for a single USB port, let alone the dual port configuration of the supplied cable.

I've tried installing the driver that is included with the software, and the one(s) posted on the OWON web site.

I have determined that the two things I'm observing are unrelated.

Inability to zoom in/out is intermittent on later versions (sometimes works) but almost always works on 1.0.23.

The disconnect occurs when I stop the scope, and does not relate to zooming.

Once I press the RUN/STOP button (Upper right, turns from PAUSE to PLAY when scope stops), about 10 seconds later I get the "USB device has disconnected" sound from windows.
This ONLY occurs if I STOP the scope. If I set it to "normal" trigger and don't trigger it (so no capturing going on), the disconnect problem does NOT occur.

If I have device manager open when the disconnect occurs, it refreshes, but the scope stays visible (assuming it's a very brief disconnect).

When I press RUN/STOP again to start the scope, after a couple of seconds, I get a message window at the top "Write content err. and disconnect X" (this is the same message you get it you pull the USB cable while running, followed by one saying "Choose USB port ... (clears too quickly to read all of it)", followed by one saying "Initializing..." (same as when scope starts) and the scope starts running. This is with 10.0.23 - later versions  usually hang at this point.

Before I install the drivers, it shows as "USB device" under "Other devices", NOT as "Oscilloscope" is described in the OWON driver installation document.
Once installed, the scope shows as "USB device" under "libusb-win32 devices" as described in the document.

I have not found an "Install F/W" option in the software ... I note that each software release has a directory called "$_OUTDIR/fpga/vds1022" which contains a large .bin file - I thought this was the firmware for the scope and is auto-loaded during "Initializing..." Is there some other option to install Firmware on the scope?

The "Install USB driver" option accessed via the state indicator in the upper left does not work, it runs a batch file which fails with access violations. I installed the driver by going to the scope device with device manager, and manually selecting the USB driver directory - this is the procedure documented in OWON's "USB_Driver_Install_Guide _V1.3".

It's funny ... perhaps I got a bad one, but in all other respects it seems to work fine.

Dave
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: DDunfield on December 27, 2018, 12:58:03 pm
A bit more information:

There is a red LED at the top/back of the unit near the unused LAN cutout. This LED does not appear to be mentioned in the VDS_Series_User_Manual.

This LED comes on and flashes slowly when you first plug in the unit, then goes OFF and stays OFF when you launch the software and it finds/initializes it.

When I STOP the scope, 10 seconds later the "USB disconnect" sound plays, and the LED comes ON at exactly the same time, then resumes flashing slowly.

When I attempt to re-START the scope, it has to find/initialize it as described in my previous message, and the LED goes OFF, just as when first launching the software.

The same thing happens ("USB disconnect sound" and LED on) 10 seconds after I close the software with the scope running.

It almost seems to me that there is some sort of watchdog on communication and the scope is resetting or otherwise entering into some sort of fault/recovery state after 10 seconds of no communication.
As I would expect this to be a software thing, it should be happening on all VDS1022's, not just mine.

Could someone else with a VDS1022I try this and confirm that you DO or DO NOT get the LED coming back on after you STOP the scope (make sure the status in upper left changes to "STOP"). It happens for me after about 10 seconds.

I'm trying to determine if this one is defective or not.

Thanks,

Dave

PS: A couple other observations:

USBlogview does NOT show a disconnect and reconnect when the "USB disconnect" sound plays and the LED comes on. Device manager DOES refresh indicating that a device has changed status. I note that USBlogview has a short delay before it reports devices connecting and disconnecting, so it may be filtering what it determines to be a transient event.


As long as I don't STOP the scope, the problem does not occur.

If I use NORMAL trigger, and do not provide any trigger events after the initial capture, the scope remains connected even though it is not performing a capture (it must however be capturing in background as it would need to be recording pre-trigger events for the next capture). It this state, I can even ZOOM using the "AssistSet/Zoom" functions in the Horizontal menu, which:

  - Proves that the software is capable of ZOOMing on the last captured waveform.

  - Is much more easy/convenient that fooling with the timebase settings.

I have no idea why OWON blocks using ZOOM when you STOP the scope, as it is clearly possible in the software, and would be a very useful thing to have.

This (staying in normal trigger) is not a good workaround because:

  - Can be hard to prevent additional triggers, which wipe out capture you are trying to examine.

  - Single-shot capture automatically changes to STOP following trigger.


Minor bug discovered while investigating this:

With trigger set to AUTO (or a source which triggers applied) and scope STOPped, use status menu to disconnect and reconnect scope. Scope begins capturing, but Run/Stop button still shows START - you have to press it twice to stop scope.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: DDunfield on December 28, 2018, 10:02:10 am
I guess you just need to know when to stop digging yourself in further!

When I first got the VDS1022I as with any other modern product, I ignored the DVD that came with it, and downloaded the latest version (1.0.30) and USB driver directly from OWON's site. I installed the USB driver, then the software, and it "mostly" worked. but I had the strange disconnect problem described in preceding posts.

Last evening, thinking it might be a conflict with one of several other USB based tools I have installed on my lab systems, I installed a fresh copy of windows on an old laptop, then not bothering to move over the downloaded installers, I stuffed in the DVD that came with the scope, and installed 1.0.29. Then I ran it, and tried "Install USB driver" which failed with "can't find REINSTALL.BAT", so I manually installed the driver that was included in the installed software (not the "new" one from OWONs site).

And... everything worked! I can zoom, and no 10-second disconnect!

So, I went to my working laptop (where I most want the scope to work), un-installed the driver, tracked down and removed all driver related files, uninstalled the software, tracked down and removed all program and appdata files and repeated the above.

And... everything works!

Did the same on my desktop. And... everything works!


I can only guess that the "new" driver from OWONs site installed some "nugget of goodness" which was interfering with things. I still get the disconnect sound and LED-ON 10 seconds after I close the VDS software (and I expect you will too), so I'm thinking that some "keep-alive" message while paused was not being transferred through the driver.

I also noted that the "fpga" directory and contained .bin files were NOT removed when I uninstalled the software. It may also be that a wrong or bad version of the firmware was being loaded.

Thanks for your help, and hopefully my experience may save someone else a bit of grief!

Dave

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 28, 2018, 03:43:15 pm
Hey Dave,

I missed your previous couple of posts (rather pleased that I did now). Glad you got it sorted! I can't remember which was the earliest version that I installed when I changed laptops, but obviously early enough to circumvent the 'straight to 1.0.30' from the website.

Coincidentally I am just setting up an old IBM T42 with Win7 32 pro and an SSD to use as a small footprint lab bench PC, so your info is immediately helpful. Thanks.

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: DDunfield on December 30, 2018, 12:32:13 pm
Now that I have this thing working properly, time for a better "review".  I have to say that I quite like it.

It works! - I've tried a couple other low cost USB scopes and they were terrible, unreliable triggering, lost data in captures. Just not worth looking at. It seems OWON did something fiendishly clever that none of the other low-end USB scope makers have thought of ... they put an actual oscilloscope inside the box!  not just an 8-bit micro trying desperately to shovel sample captures at a PC without losing "to much" of what you are interested in seeing.

It's cheap! - I got mine for about C$90 (~$70 US)  - Not much more than the "sample and shovel" boxes.

It's small! About the size of a medium-small paperback book, easily fits in my (admittedly bigish) laptop bag. Rather than just toss it in with all the other detritus in the side pocket, I got a cheap 10" tablet case, which holds the scope and a couple of probes while maintaining thinness so it just slides in the pocket above the main compartment with the laptop.

Software seems decent. While I would prefer something cleaner than 100M+ of Java and .DLLs, it seems to keep to itself, and runs well. I tried installing it on an single-core Atom (N270) netbook running XP .. and it works fine!  Another advantage to it doing scope-functions inside the box! It doesn't need much in the way of PC resources.

UI-wise the software is also quite good, I like that it doesn't make you turn "virtual knobs" but uses simple menus, and many functions can be done just by moving pointers with the mouse.

I don't really like their use of a USB-A connector which would normally require you to carry a separate cable. I've standardized on micro-USB cables for all the peripherals in my "portable lab", using adapters to other formats when needed, so I added a micro-USB to USB-A male adapter which works perfectly on the VDS1022I.

So far, it seems to be one of the best low-cost and small compromises I have found for a portable scope. I've got a couple of scopemeters, but they are too big for the laptop bag, and unless you spend big $$$ are considerably more limited than the VDS1022I.

It could also make a good cheap bench scope if you have a PC handy and don't need more capability. Sure, a 1054Z (or similar) is a lot more scope, but at 1/5 the price I can see places where the VDS1022 could make sense.

Dave

PS: The only thing I really don't like is the fact that at 100ms/div and slower it switches to roll mode with triggering disabled. I get that they think the delay between trigger/display would become too long, but they should have at least let us make that choice - there are sometimes cases where I want to wait for and capture a slow event.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: epigramx on January 13, 2019, 07:53:21 pm
At the end of the day, if someone can afford $200-250 (because I suspect most that can afford $100-$150 can afford slightly higher), do you think this is worth it? I find the general concept of headless oscilloscopes very optiimal technologically since many people have a PC right in front of them at all times anyway, but I get the impression there is no much progress is that field yet, even with this model around (e.g. I noticed only the small model on this floating version can accept high voltage signals).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Riaj159 on January 14, 2019, 04:57:05 am
Currently owon vds1022 got new competitor, "hantek 2c42" !!!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Pnoxi on January 14, 2019, 06:34:39 pm
I do not have a "hantek 2C42", but I was thinking about buying it.
After watching the videos I was discouraged, transferring to PC via USB "was very slow"  :-\

I do not know Polish, but here's a video.
https://youtu.be/7pM64TIJSes?t=244 (https://youtu.be/7pM64TIJSes?t=244)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: martinloren2 on January 15, 2019, 12:48:04 am
...transferring to PC via USB "was very slow"  :-\

What kind of processing would require you to transfer data to the PC? Do you think you would benefit of real-time samples transfer via wifi?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 15, 2019, 09:51:45 pm
It's triggering capabilities are distinctly limited compared to the Owon too. Not to mention very similar sample rate (drops to 125MHz for dual channel) and smaller (than the already small Owon) buffer - only 3k samples dual channel.

Yes it's handheld, but things like decent triggering matter.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Riaj159 on January 19, 2019, 04:14:50 pm
here is the detail review of hantek 2D42 oscilloscope, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWgslcNQLkw&t=901s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWgslcNQLkw&t=901s) 
I agree with gyro this one is no way compare able with Owon vds series except being the handheld device. pc software also almost not useable compared to owon software. hantek 2D42 has single channel 125MS/s sampling and by time interleaving, hantek 2D42 able to manage 250MS/s. maybe same theory has applied on Owon VDS2052 ( 50 MHz 250MS/s) too, as Owon VDS1022 and VDS2052 has same origin and also has same software but different FPGA bitstream, maybe inserting some unpopulated component (reverse engineering required) & uploading the FPGA bitstream of Owon VDS2052 on the VDS1022 might convert Owon VDS1022 into VDS2052  ::) .On owon VDS software I have tried replacing VDS1022_FPGA_V3.5.bin file with vds2052_FPGA_v1.0.11.bin & after connecting my VDS1022, FPGA bitstream upload was successful on the VDS1022. At that time no input signal was given & my VDS1022 was plotting signal incorrectly. After disconnecting and reuploading original FPGA bitstream (VDS1022_FPGA_V3.5.bin) it was all right once again.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: siggi on January 21, 2019, 12:08:15 am
I'm trying to figure out how the Hantek could ever be battery operated, as the manual leads with this sage advice: "Ground the product. This product is grounded through the grounding conductor of the power cord. To avoid electric shock, the grounding conductor must be connected to earth ground. Before making connections to the input or output terminals of the product, ensure that the product is properly grounded".
The USB charger in the video only has two prongs, so that won't be supplying the ground for the device, so the scope would only be grounded through a USB->Computer connection under normal circumstances. Weirdness?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 21, 2019, 08:49:43 am
I suggest starting a new thread for the Hantek 2D42 - This stuff is really getting off topic with regard to the Owon VDS1022(I).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: waste on January 23, 2019, 12:22:04 pm
I ordered the standard (non I) model and then I ordered a USB isolator for 9euros

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1500V-USB-to-USB-Isolator-Board-Protection-Isolation-ADUM4160-ADUM3160-Module-USB-2-0/32791327590.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.38252e0eQ5C8Xc (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1500V-USB-to-USB-Isolator-Board-Protection-Isolation-ADUM4160-ADUM3160-Module-USB-2-0/32791327590.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.38252e0eQ5C8Xc)

and a 2watt 5V dc-dc power supply for 3 euros to replace the 1watt that is installed

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-B0505S-2W-DIP-4-DC-DC-B0505S-2W-SIP-4-B0505S-2WR2/32903740245.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2cde4c4dPJNVOH (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-B0505S-2W-DIP-4-DC-DC-B0505S-2W-SIP-4-B0505S-2WR2/32903740245.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2cde4c4dPJNVOH)

This way I will have an isolator for more than one USB devices and the price difference was well worth the extra effort (60euros for the non isolated model and 90 for the isolated one).

thanks to everybody for the very informative comments


PS the laptop power supply I use doesn't have a ground cable, but better be safe than sorry. I always use a hands off approach when testing potentially dangerous Voltages, but I would like my osciloscope or my old laptop to also not die, hands off or not :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 23, 2019, 01:09:16 pm
That was a good solution - saving some money in exchange for a little searching and rework effort.  :-+

Having a laptop with a 2 pin mains adapter (no ground) actually makes your USB Isolator more useful, not less. It will block any 'Y-Cap leakage current' from your laptop adapter from reaching your (potentially sensitive) circuit under test.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: waste on January 24, 2019, 11:05:13 am
That was a good solution - saving some money in exchange for a little searching and rework effort.  :-+

Having a laptop with a 2 pin mains adapter (no ground) actually makes your USB Isolator more useful, not less. It will block any 'Y-Cap leakage current' from your laptop adapter from reaching your (potentially sensitive) circuit under test.

thanks Gyro, I never thought the Y-Cap (little blue pill) leakage could have any effect, but when it comes to oscilloscopes I'm a total newbie, that's why I stick to these threads here.

I read your comments on readings taken from devices connected to mains, and I would like to ask/debate a few ideas (regarding transformerless drivers, isolator transformer etc), but I don't want to clutter the OWON thread with off topic stuff, so If I can pester you somewhere else I would be greatful.

As for the OWON, I just received today, Im still waiting for the 2w dc-dc converter to finish my isolated Osciloscope project
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 24, 2019, 11:56:12 am
There are quite a few threads on the benefits / shortcomings of Isolation Transformers and RCD/GFIs for shock protection in different situations. It's a bit of a contentions subject - safety is always an issue when trying to scope mains connected or high voltage circuits. A forum search will reveal many, but one I would recommend reading is  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rcd-or-isolation-transformer-what-is-best-to-use-for-safety/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rcd-or-isolation-transformer-what-is-best-to-use-for-safety/). It might be a thread worth reviving with any specific questions.

There's also Dave's video on how not to blow up your scope...
https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ (https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ)

Obviously you have an advantage with a USB isolated VDS1022. The key things to remember are that the ground clips of both channel probes are connected together, and they are also directly connected to the metal sleeve of the case. The other thing to remember is that regardless of any ground isolation, you always have the limit of the maximum voltage input and scope probe voltage ratings (relative to the ground clips) to beware of.

Hoping to hear that your USB Isolator mod works as expected.  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: waste on January 24, 2019, 01:00:36 pm
hehe thanks, I have seen this video like 3 times already to be extra sure I got all the tricks. Thanks also for the link about the debate on isolation transformers, I will also read it very carefully (I just made myself one from old transistors, but I m still somewhat shy to use it),

and I will post my results on the cheaply isolated Owon once I have everything put together (I still miss the 2w dc-dc).

PS gyro another thanks from me the thread you showed me is exactly what I wanted to read.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: danno_cj on January 29, 2019, 05:22:54 pm
I tested with my USB meter power needed to work my 1022I. It draw power from short part cable of Y cable found on the box. The value show on my meter is 640mA, so it best to use Y cable that came with 1022 and both ends inserted in sockets. It may not work properly with one usb. For those who want to mod 1022 to isolated version keep in mind the need of power requirement when other power IC is used.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: waste on January 31, 2019, 10:47:23 pm
I tested with my USB meter power needed to work my 1022I. It draw power from short part cable of Y cable found on the box. The value show on my meter is 640mA, so it best to use Y cable that came with 1022 and both ends inserted in sockets. It may not work properly with one usb. For those who want to mod 1022 to isolated version keep in mind the need of power requirement when other power IC is used.

Thanks but 650mA is 3Watts, which contradicts what others have found inside the OWON 1022i ie a 2Watt Dc-Dc isolator. Im still waiting for the Dc-DC converter but I promise a full report when I get it :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: DDunfield on February 01, 2019, 01:21:12 am
I tested with my USB meter power needed to work my 1022I. It draw power from short part cable of Y cable found on the box. The value show on my meter is 640mA, so it best to use Y cable that came with 1022 and both ends inserted in sockets. It may not work properly with one usb. For those who want to mod 1022 to isolated version keep in mind the need of power requirement when other power IC is used.

Thanks but 650mA is 3Watts, which contradicts what others have found inside the OWON 1022i ie a 2Watt Dc-Dc isolator. Im still waiting for the Dc-DC converter but I promise a full report when I get it :)

My VDS1022I measures about 360ma when first connected (before software loads it), and about 420-430ma once the software loads it and it's up and running.
Draw doesn't change much between stopped and acquiring, or even when changing channel input level between settings where you can hear a relay click.

Not measured with a precision meter, just a cheap "USB Tester" which I have confirmed previously to be reasonably close. It only has a resolution to 0.01A.

I've not had problems running it from a single USB port, although I normally use a dual USB-A male to single USB-B Mini male with USB Mini-B female to USB-A male adapter to connect to the scope (standardized on USB Mini cables with adapters in my laptop bag).

Dave
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: waste on February 18, 2019, 08:25:04 pm
I managed to solder the 2Watt DC-DC on the usb isolator in the place of the 1watt  but it still drops the voltage to 4V with 250mA so the scope doesn't turn on, even though the specs say it should provide stable 5V up until 400mA  :)
I added two capacitors but still the same :)
Next step is putting 2x 2watt DC-DC in parallel. I know it's not recommended most of the times but I ordered a second one just in case and I have it around so why not try it :)

I ll keep you posted with new results :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 18, 2019, 09:06:34 pm
The VDS1022I uses a TI DCP02 Isolated DC-DC. Maybe try one of those?

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dcp020505.pdf (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dcp020505.pdf)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Florin235 on March 21, 2019, 05:37:32 pm
Hello, after I read this thread, about a month ago I decided to purchase the non-isolated version. Couple of days ago the scope arrived and today I connected it, ran a calibration, connected and compensated the probes. Everything worked without a problem.
I also wanted to perform the tests on the first page of this thread to see how noisy my particular setup was. I do not have the BNC terminations so I left channel inputs open(no probes). One problem that I encountered though was that I could not access the lowest vertical sensitivity setting, namely 5mV/div, specified for both VDS1022/VDS1022(I), in software; the lowest I could go was 50mV/div as can be seen from the screenshot.
The rest of the settings(trigger, horizontal, display, etc.), they all seem to be OK.
Has  anybody else with the non-isolated version of the scope encountered this problem?
Could it be a software problem? I mention that I have run S/W v1.0.30 from both the supplied CD and website with the same issue.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on March 21, 2019, 08:25:26 pm
Hi, Welcome to the forum.  :)

Looking good. I think the reason you can't select the 5mV/div range is that the you still have the probe attenuation factor set to X10 (In the Channel menu, rather badly named as "Probe Rate").

You effectively already have it set to 5mV/div input sensitivity, the readout measurements are just 10 times too high.


P.S. Don't forget to set the attenuation factor back to X10 before using your X10 probes.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: tomik on March 22, 2019, 01:23:31 am
Hi,
just like Waste and Florin235, I recently bought VDS1022 (non isolated) and DC-DC isolated USB converter (the same as Waste). The scope works very well, even with software running in virtual machine (host Linux OpenSuse and Windows10 in VirtualBox vm). But I had the same problem with USB converter as Waste. After a small investigation  |O, I found the cause. This device is surprisingly well designed. It has 500mA resettable fuse on input side. It's too low for our scopes. Ideally it should be replaced with bigger one, for example 750mA.  I did not have anything suitable at hand and eventually I bypassed the fuse. After that the scope started works through converter.

Tomek
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Florin235 on March 22, 2019, 09:53:48 am
Thank you Gyro, that got everything back in order with my vertical scale :-+. I guess I just got carried away by some negative assumptions and simply forgot to change the amplification factor from x10 to x1.
I did the tests once more and they look the same as your tests on the first page; well more or less the same.

And no, I won't forget to put it back to x10 once I connect the 10x probes again ;D
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on March 22, 2019, 10:26:24 am
 :-+ It looks pretty good for unterminated inputs.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on April 26, 2019, 10:48:45 am
I've been playing around a bit more with the UI and thought it was probably time to update the shortcuts into a single list, including the ones documented in the help file. Most of the shortcuts below are still undocumented.

Screen Shortcuts:

The numbers tie up to the annotations on the Screenshot below (as before):

(1) Clicking on the small arrow directly brings up the measurement cursors menu for time and / or voltage.

(2) Clicking on the small '+' icon (only appears when the mouse pointer is in the measurements area) immediately brings up the measurements selection menu.

(3) Clicking on either of the channel numbers immediately brings up the channel settings menu (Double clicking anywhere on the box also brings up the channel setting menu).

(4) Volts/div selection, Clicking brings up a normal popup+slider However if you just hover the mouse over it instead you can use the scroll wheel to increment/decrement directly, much quicker.

(5) Clicking here toggles between DC / AC / GND for that channel.

Additional, hovering in either of the channel boxes also brings up a small 'x' icon to turn off the channel. Clicking in a greyed out channel box will turn it on again. (couldn't show this and (2) at the same time).

(6) Clicking in the 'T' box brings up a slider for trigger position. It's normally easier just to drag the red trigger position flag at the top of the screen, but the 'T' box click also brings up a useful 'Reset' button to restore to the middle.

(7) Time/div... Similar operation to the V/div. Clicking brings up the pop-up/slider but mouse-over and scroll wheel changes the value directly.

(8 ) Clicking toggles the trigger source between Chan1, Chan2 and Ext (trigger marker on right hand edge of screen changes color to match).

(9) Clicking toggles trigger polarity, works on edge, slope and pulse (icon changes to match trigger type). In Video trigger mode it toggles Odd, Even, Line etc.

(10) Click to alter trigger level - Actually it's far easier and more accurate to drag the trigger marker on the right hand side if the screen, but clicking here also brings up two useful buttons to 'Reset' the trigger level and 'Set to 50%'.

-  Obviously clicking the Trigger button takes you straight to the Trigger menu.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/?action=dlattach;attach=188874;image)


Keyboard Shortcuts:

- <Space>  brings up (or closes) the last menu selected - the same as clicking the Menu (Home) button. (Undocumented)

- When in numeric popups (V/div, T/div, number key will cycle through values for that number. eg. Pressing 2 will cycle 2us 20us, 200us, 2ms etc. (Undocumented)

- It will take the first letter of a menu item to select, eg. Trigger mode will take E, S, V, P etc. This seems to happen even after you've shifted focus. Shame it doesn't do the same thing for numerical inputs on the trigger holdoff. (Undocumented)

- Q Increase the Vertical sensitivity of Channel 1 (Documented).

- A Decrease the Vertical sensitivity of Channel 1 (Documented).

- W Increase the Vertical sensitivity of Channel 1 (Documented).

- S Decrease the Vertical sensitivity of Channel 1 (Documented).

- Left Arrow: Decrease the Timebase (Documented).

- Right Arrow: Increase the Timebase (Documented).

- F1  Help (Documented).

- F5  Run / Stop (Documented).

- <Ctrl> Enter:  Autoset (Documented).

- <Ctrl> L (upper or lower case) Invokes "tune" mode. Apparently a diagnostic mode which displays, in the bottom left corner:' fps' (frames per second), 'cmd' (commands pending? always reads zero on mine), 'wfs' (waveforms per second?), and 'pts' (points?).  The only way to exit this mode seems to be to exit and restart. (Undocumented, may be useful to someone).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: spford on May 19, 2019, 02:38:26 pm
Hello.
I am going to buy a VDS1022i for measuring noise several USB Chargers(hobby).
I would like to receive your help and i have some questions.

1. What is the latest hardware version of the VDS1022i?
(Eg, Rev 1.5 or Rev 1.6 or Rev 1.7, ETc)


2. Which of the P2060 or P7060 probes are included in the VDS1022i?
(Some say P2060, others say P7060(with photo))


3. Which is the better probe?
(P2060 is up to 200 voltage at x1, P7060 is 300 up to voltage at x1. it seem that another spec are same.)


I would appreciate a reply. :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: AmadeusMozart on May 23, 2019, 12:32:18 pm
I bought a Siglent SDS-1104E oscilloscope. Subsequently the Owon was sold off. But the Siglent did not stay very long - the noise of the fan got to me and it was overkill for what I needed.  Plus my health took a sharp down turn again which did not help. Recently I had the need for an oscilloscope and I bought the Picscope 2204A instead. The big advantage for me is that it does what I want and it has a build in AWG. Square wave is not perfect but still useable. I thought about an Owon again but I could never get it to work under Windows Server 2016 that I am running yet the Picoscope 2204A happily does (athough a year ago I was told it would not work under Windows server). For me the extra cost in respect to the Owon is well worth it.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 24, 2019, 09:55:45 am
Hello.
I am going to buy a VDS1022i for measuring noise several USB Chargers(hobby).
I would like to receive your help and i have some questions.

1. What is the latest hardware version of the VDS1022i?
(Eg, Rev 1.5 or Rev 1.6 or Rev 1.7, ETc)


2. Which of the P2060 or P7060 probes are included in the VDS1022i?
(Some say P2060, others say P7060(with photo))


3. Which is the better probe?
(P2060 is up to 200 voltage at x1, P7060 is 300 up to voltage at x1. it seem that another spec are same.)


I would appreciate a reply. :)

Hi,

I don't know if there is a record of current H/W revision. Mine (that I did the original teardown on) was an early one, I've seen later ones with copper foil wrapped over the edge of the PCB between the upper and lower screening cans as a grounding contact for the case. The latest revision that I've seen (from the look of it) is shown in this recent video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di-UndlTnac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di-UndlTnac)

The only functional difference that I can see (apart from the bare tinned tracks down the edges for case grounding) is that the Video trigger chip doesn't appear to be fitted. I suspect that nobody is particularly interested in looking at analogue video in fine detail these days.

I don't know what PCB versions various ebay sellers stock these days, possibly random, but it doesn't make a functional difference anyway, they all work well.

With regard to scope probes, mine came with P2060 60MHz switchable x1/x10 probes, so does the one shown in the (recent) video.

I'm not sure where you have seen a P7060 photo and I don't know what the practical difference is - You NEVER use probes in the x1 position at those sort of voltages, that would be silly and dangerous for the scope, always use X10.

I note that you mentioned measuring noise of several USB chargers, I'm assuming (hoping) that you mean scoping the outputs. As has been covered many times before, this scope (and most others) isn't suitable for measuring mains. You would need to add a high voltage differential probe for that.

I hope this helps.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on May 26, 2019, 09:14:01 am
Just for help community

Method for modify texts or messages in your favorit language in software VDS_C2 (or VDS_S2) for VDS series

On desk create a copy of com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar in \OWON\VDS_C2\plugins\
On desk create a folder named "translate"

For decompress :

With 7zip decompressed com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar in folder "translate"
with Notepad++ (or other) open MsgLib_en.properties.jar in Desk\translate\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\i18n\MsgLib_en.properties .
Modify text only after "=" and close file.

For compressed :

open 7zip and select the 3 files : com , META-INF , plugin.xml in folder "translate"

Click on "Add"
in "archive name" write "com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0"
in "archive format" change 7z by zip
Click "OK"

Open folder \Desk\translate\ and change suffix zip in jar in com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0
Click right and copy file com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar

For test :

Open folder \OWON\VDS_C2\plugins\
Change name  of com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar in com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar.old (for protected original file).
Click right and paste file com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar

Change Menu/Utility/Language

For modify texts in tips :

Open \OWON\VDS_C2\docs\VDS_C2\en\image\
Protected original image *.png in *.png.old
Open your image *.png with Paint-net
Modify and save

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 27, 2019, 12:09:37 pm
Welcome to the forum camomille, and thanks for the helpful information - I have been wondering how to modify things, this is a good start (I'm not a Java programmer).

Now if only you could find a way of making the 'Save' icon on the main screen (2nd to the left from the Home icon) bring up the save image box rather than save text one I'd be really happy! Having to go into the Utility menu to save an image has always been a pain.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on May 27, 2019, 04:51:06 pm
to Gyro, thank you for your welcome

I am not a Java programmer ,  the *.jar files can be decompressed and recompressed like Zip or Rar files with 7zip.
The button "Save the waveform" corresponds to command "Tooltip.Save" of the file "ButtonPane.class",
but *.class files must be decompiled recompiled and I do not know how to do it.

inconsolable
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on May 27, 2019, 05:43:45 pm
Thanks, that gives me somewhere to focus on. I've never bothered contacting Owon about this one, though they've been sort of responsive at times in the past. They must have had some reason for making that a Text save button but it makes no sense to me.

Off to do some reading...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on May 27, 2019, 06:32:06 pm
For find text in folder containing jar files undecompressed :
https://sourceforge.net/projects/javinder/ (https://sourceforge.net/projects/javinder/)
https://amitstechblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/text-search-in-jar-files/ (https://amitstechblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/text-search-in-jar-files/)

For decompil / recompil class files :
http://dirty-joe.com/ (http://dirty-joe.com/)

good luck

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Peter Gamma on June 01, 2019, 07:17:02 pm
I m looking for a way to stream data from a OWON VDS1022I to a ftp server and from there to Matlab. Matlab has support for Oscilloscopes and has a great potential to plot, visualize and analyze data.

Is there a way to modifiy the code of the VDS1022I to stream data to an  ftp server?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Peter Gamma on June 02, 2019, 11:57:10 am
It is probably not necessary to modifiy the code of the VDS1022I to stream data to an  ftp server and from there to Matlab, since Owons own software has a integrated SCPI interface and Matlab supports SCPI commands:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-ag-1012-awg-matlab/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-ag-1012-awg-matlab/)

It would be nice to have Matlab support for the VDS1022I. Does someone know how to use the SCPI interface of Owons software to connect to other applications?


Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 02, 2019, 12:16:22 pm
Sorry, I've not used the SCPI interface on the VDS1022I S/W but here's the interface spec/protocol document in case you haven't already found it... http://files.owon.com.cn//software/Application/VDS_Series_SCPI_Protocol.zip (http://files.owon.com.cn//software/Application/VDS_Series_SCPI_Protocol.zip)

Some of the higher end VDSxxxx models have ethernet interfaces but are possibly outside the price range you're interested in.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Peter Gamma on June 02, 2019, 03:25:57 pm
Yes, I found this documentation already. It's probably a step by step procedure to get Matlab support for the VDS1022I, when nobody did use it before. There are also expamples in the Matlab community for other oscilloscopes which could be modified for the  VDS1022I. Matlab would be great for the VDS1022I, since Matlab is really wonderful for it's possibilities.

I'm looking for a solution for a respiratory sensor to connect to the VDS1022I, which is mobile. And the VDS1022I could be suitable for it. To avoid to carry around a laptop for the VDS1022I  all the time, I thought about connecting the VDS1022I to a Rasperry Pi. Rasperry Pi has it's own Linux based OS. I saw here a Linux version of the Owon software in this blog. Do you think that this version could also work on a Rasperry Pi?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 02, 2019, 06:24:15 pm
I'm sure Matlab support will be a really welcomed feature if you can achieve it, but it does look as if you will be forging the path (unless you get lucky).
 
Yes there was quite an effort a while back in this thread about Linux support, I think various people got it working. I can't see a fundamental reason why it shouldn't work on a Pi [EDIT: would also be a really desirable capability] (ensuring sufficient USB supply current might possibly be one easy to solve issue). The VDS1022 device/FPGA image is easy to find in the s/w if you unzip it, as is the Java source.

Others will hopefully chip in with a more knowledgeably replies on the Linux stuff.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Peter Gamma on June 02, 2019, 11:45:01 pm
Nice to read the view of an expert and to profit from his knowledge :).

Regarding power consumption: Do you have experience with the power draw of the VDS1022I? What battery capacity would be necessary for using for 24 hours, for a whole day?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 03, 2019, 11:50:25 am
Haha, I wouldn't consider myself an expert in the field of Matlab, Linux or Rasperry Pi!

I haven't measured the power consumption of mine specifically, but earlier posts indicate that it is in the range of 300-400mA (the internal isolated DC-DC converter is a 2W one) -  this may pose you a problem for long term battery operation.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Peter Gamma on June 03, 2019, 01:46:05 pm
You say you are not an expert for Linux, Rasperry Pi and Matlab? But are you not the expert here in the forum for OWON VDS1022I? Thanks for the information about power consumption for the VDS1022I, very useful, VDS1022I expert!

I m one step further with the SCPI communication between VDS1022I and Matlab. I found an example in Matlab for the SCPI communication between a Rigol oscilloscope and Matlab, which could be modified for the VDS1022I and tested.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-ag-1012-awg-matlab/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-ag-1012-awg-matlab/)

And if it does not work, asking Owon s  tech support for help could solve the problem.

 SCPI seems not to be very often used, but looks not too complicated. I m convinced that this can be solved by everyone who want s it for the VDS1022I. And the solution might be not very difficult.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 03, 2019, 03:27:40 pm
Quote
You say you are not an expert for Linux, Rasperry Pi and Matlab? But are you not the expert here in the forum for OWON VDS1022I? Thanks for the information about power consumption for the VDS1022I, very useful, VDS1022I expert!]You say you are not an expert for Linux, Rasperry Pi and Matlab? But are you not the expert here in the forum for OWON VDS1022I? Thanks for the information about power consumption for the VDS1022I, very useful, VDS1022I expert!

Ha, well I suppose I do have that dubious honour - I guess somebody had to be the first to buy one 'sight unseen' and pull it to bits! There is the odd Youtube video now which is useful for seeing the UI but pretty much all searches still go either to sellers or end up here.

It sounds as if you're making good progress already on the SCPI. I must admit that I hadn't got much further than scanning the SCPI spec and thinking, hey that could be really useful. If you can integrate it with the AWG and maybe a PSU (there's a thread around here somewhere about someone doing an SCPI controlled PSU) then you've got a really useful setup, even if a bit frequency limited. You can always go up to one of the higher VDS models later with little if any effort - the SCPI spec seems to cover several models.

If you really get stuck, I think I've still got the email address of someone in Owon's technical department. I last used it a couple of years ago when I had an issue with one of their S/W releases so it may not work any more. PM me if you need it but I'd keep it as a last resort.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Peter Gamma on June 03, 2019, 04:39:02 pm
Thanks!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on June 09, 2019, 07:43:06 am
This is the progress of my research concerning the recording of the screen with the "Save the Waveform" button on the front panel.
I am not a Java specialist, but it serves me as an example to learn the language.
The change works (after a lot of testing), but I can run it with "org.eclipse.equinox.launcher_1.3.0.v20120522-1813.jar" not with "launcher.exe".
To continue, I will need sources and I want to ask Gyro to reactivate a download link for older versions of the software for track the sources.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 09, 2019, 09:36:57 pm
Hi camomille,

That looks very encouraging, I'm glad you are getting some benefit out of it as a learning experience.

Yes, of course I will re-upload, the only problem is that I am somewhere with ridiculously slow upload speed at the moment (as in <10kbps a lot of the time) and the connection keeps resetting. I will try again tomorrow.

In the meantime, if anyone else downloaded a copy of 'VDS1022 Previous Versions.zip' last time then maybe you can help...?  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 10, 2019, 08:57:15 am
The upload speed was a bit better this morning (only took 45 mins :D). Here's the download link:

https://ufile.io/4lllcvgx (https://ufile.io/4lllcvgx)

It might take a couple of attempts to download using the free option, I need to find a better upload site!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on June 10, 2019, 10:16:22 am
Perfect first attempt 16 minutes.

Now a lot of work to analyze and compare.

Thank you for spending time.

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on June 10, 2019, 12:25:18 pm
The sources are only in 1.0.23 (surely an oversight)

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 10, 2019, 01:12:56 pm
Quote
The sources are only in 1.0.23 (surely an oversight)

Oh yes, almost certainly! Owon have been known to be a bit 'clumsy' about software releases.

As it happens, 1.0.23 was a particularly good vintage, with no bugs that I am aware of,  so it's nice to have the sources for that one.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on June 17, 2019, 06:53:53 pm
it's possible (run with "org.eclipse.equinox.launcher_1.3.0.v20120522-1813.jar")

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 17, 2019, 08:09:19 pm
That looks excellent, I assume that you still can't get it running from Launcher.exe.

I had a (well actually more than one!) rainy day on holiday last week. I couldn't even find which files to edit. Clearly your Java skills are evolving faster than mine.

In frustration, I did play with the button icons though, inspired by your reply #316 #312.  It's little sad I know, but the cartoonish 3D effect Autoset, Run/Stop and Single trigger buttons on an otherwise professional looking UI have always bugged me. I have generated some which I think are better. These are in the 'com/owon/uppersoft/dso/image' folder of the unzipped com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar

The single trigger icon might not be the ideal but I couldn't think of anything better, it's hopefully more meaningful than a simple 'S' anyway, and certainly more so that the original 'lightning bolt'.

Here are the 'before and after screenshots, complete with the png files, under the correct names. No recompilation was needed.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on June 29, 2019, 01:47:03 pm
Hello,new advances (soft functional under Eclipse) with attached dialog usb (sniffer.txt) and report flashmemory

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 04, 2019, 07:20:53 am

Mission accomplished
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 04, 2019, 09:50:29 pm
Hey that's excellent, care to share?  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 05, 2019, 05:50:53 am
@ Gyro

yes I want to share, but in what way do you want?

1) you want to build the file yourself with eclipse to understand more and modify yourself (I'll do a tutorial).
2) you just want to use the VDS_C2_23.jar file but I'm not sure how to upload a file online !!

Full folder zip : 121 Mb
minimum files zip: 44 Mb
VDS_C2_23.jar : 15 Mb

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 05, 2019, 01:35:04 pm
Hi Alain,

Thanks very much. Can I be cheeky and ask for all of them please... The minimum files because I want something that works straight away (or is that the .jar), and the other two because I do want to play with it and see what else I can do! :)

The files are obviously too big to upload to the forum directly. I don't do things like Microsoft and google accounts so I just use https://uploadfiles.io/ (https://uploadfiles.io/) (the same as I used to send you the previous release versions). You just drag and drop the files (up to 5GB), it gives you a download link to copy and paste and it hosts them for 30 days. I'm sure there must be better ones out there but this one doesn't require any sort of registration.

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 05, 2019, 02:29:53 pm
@ Gyro

decompressed and no install (dbl click on VDS_C2_23.exe (if no jre installed) or dbl click on VDS_C2_23.jar (if jre installed))

https://ufile.io/cupr1fdy


@ Ultrawipf

I do not speak Chinese but here is the translation

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 05, 2019, 05:01:13 pm
Perfect Alain, thanks very much!  :-+

A couple of observations:

- When I run the .exe file, everything works fine, apart from the 'Display' menu, which has a very long (indefinite?) delay in opening. Curiously, this was the bug that I reported to Owon on V1.0.8, which they fixed and released as V1.0.11. It may be that one of the included java sources with V1.0.23 has come from the earlier version and become embedded in your .exe .

- I seem to have lost my file association for .jar files. if I point it to java.exe in the /jre/bin of the standard installed VDS folder structure and double click on the VDS_C2_23.jar, it briefly flashes up a black window. I get the same behaviour if I double click any other jar file too.  Note that I only have the JRE that comes with the Owon install, so this is probably just my ignorance of Java.

- I have managed to get your VDS_C2_23.jar working by renaming it to com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar and replacing the one in the /plugins folder of an existing V1.0.23 installation. It works perfectly (including normal opening time for the display menu), so I am very happy with that!  :)


As for changes that I would like to try:

- While experimenting with different versions the other day I discovered the one bug in what I previously thought was the flawless V1.0.23.  If you turn on 'Math' mode in the Math menu, the math (green) trace defaults to CH1+Ch2 at 5V/div. If you attempt to change the scale factor to any other V/div, the green trace goes to a flat line. This can't be altered until you turn un-tick 'Math' and enable it again, when it defaults back to 5V/div! This is fixed in the later versions. The math function isn't actually that useful as the resulting trace is noisy on the later versions if you try to do a differential( CH1 - CH2) measurement. Irritating though. [EDIT: This bug actually occurs as soon as the function is set to CH1 - CH2].

- I'd like to try changing the 'Save Image' button in the Utility Menu into a 'Save Data' button, to replace the .txt/.csv/.xls save functionality that was originally on the main screen save button.


Just for reference, I have been compiling a S/W version differences log. This is probably still incomplete, but here is what I have so far...

V1.0.11
- Fixed delay in bringing up 'Display' menu (introduced in V1.0.8 )
- Skins working (Black / Blue).
- Math function works Ch1 - Ch2
- FPGA Image V3.5

V1.0.23
- Java Sources included in distribution (oops!).
- Skins working
- Math function broken Ch1 - Ch2 defaults to 5V range, changing it results in flat-line.
- FPGA Image V3.5

V1.0.27
- Math function works
- Skins work
- FPGA Image V3.5

V1.0.28
- FPGA Image V3.7 introduced
- Skins broken

V1.0.29
- FPGA Image V3.7
- com.google.gson_2.1.0.v201203072145.jar added to plugins folder (?)
- Skins broken


V1.0.30
- FPGA Image V3.7
- com.google.gson_2.1.0.v201203072145.jar in plugins folder.
- Doesn't remember timebase settings across program close.
- Crash when zooming horizontal when in stopped mode.
- Skins broken

(By skins broken, I mean that it is not possible to change from the default black theme to the blue theme)

Thank you again for your considerable efforts to get the save button to work as I asked!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 05, 2019, 06:20:46 pm
The Owon software does not install a jre, so it provides a jre in its folder and the launcher uses it.

I tested on W10_64 with soft Owon installed and

on W7_64 freshly installed and without soft Owon installed, folder on the desktop I met no bug !!

do you want me to try to compile version 1.0.27 which is better ?

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 05, 2019, 08:03:56 pm
Thanks for the clarification.

I'm running W7_64. I remember Owon had some difficulty reproducing the Display menu delay problem (although I was probably still running XP at the time).

V1.0.27 might be a good target if you don't mind - either that or V1.0.28. The skin selection isn't a big deal (the blue skin is pretty horrible anyway) and V1.0.28 benefits from the later FPGA version (whatever difference that makes, but I guess they must have changed something).

One correction, I'm not running your (renamed) .jar file on an installed version, but instead, on an unpacked version from the setup file. At this point, I'm running with no installed version, I uninstalled it - just the unpacked folder. In addition to renaming, I also edited your .jar to include my button images for Autoset, run, stop and single trace, as I showed in reply #334.

Thank you,
Chris


P.S. Do you think the change of the Utility menu button from 'Save Image' to 'Save Data' would be difficult? Presumably it's just a matter of changing the button image and using the whatever that the on-screen save button originally pointed to.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 06, 2019, 09:06:51 am
After decompiling 1.0.27 with luyten and transfer to eclipse, the correction is possible, but represents a huge uninteresting work.
I prefer to understand the "Math" bug in 1.0.23 and compare with version 1.0.27 to fix it.

about your request for P.S. ,it's not clear to me :

Original save functions :

Button 1 = ALL FILES / TXT (selected after click)
Button 2 = ALL FILES / PNG / BMP / GIF (selected after click)
Button 3 = ALL FILES / TXT / CSV / XLS / BIN (selected before click)

Modification made :

Button 1 = ALL FILES / PNG / BMP / GIF (selected after click)
Button 2 = ALL FILES / PNG / BMP / GIF (selected after click)
Button 3 = ALL FILES / TXT / CSV / XLS / BIN (selected before click)

what I understand what you want is that the button 2 takes the old function of the button 1, save in text format ?

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 06, 2019, 10:39:17 am
Ha, I'd never even noticed of the 'Pause and Export' button (3) - I think I always assumed it was a trace save button or something. It does indeed duplicate the original function of the screen 'save' button (1). Note that the drop-down menu to the left of button 3 set the default file format for both buttons 3 and the original button 1 (ie. the original button 1 was originally capable of .txt, .csv etc. depending on the utility menu drop-down)

In that case, there is absolutely no need to waste your time with uninteresting changes around with the 'Save Image' button (2), it can just serve as a duplicate for the new button 1 functionality.

I admire your interest in delving into the math function on 1.0.23 - you clearly are interested in learning!  The issues seem to be triggered, either by setting the function to Ch1 - Ch2 or by changing the V/div (the original default is Ch1 + Ch2 at 5V/div), hopefully you can reproduce this. Good luck with that one.  :) [Edit: I just double checked that the math function does work correctly on V1.0.27]

I think you are right to concentrate on V1.0.23 as that is the one for which original sources are available. From your earlier posts, you seemed to get some differences when you had to decompile files on other versions. I really don't know what they added with the later versions, they fixed the math but broke other things!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 06, 2019, 11:57:55 am
These are the wrongdoers !!

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 06, 2019, 12:28:14 pm
Wow, that was quick!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 07, 2019, 01:05:11 pm

just eliminated the + 24

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 07, 2019, 01:48:23 pm

replace VDS_C2_23.jar with this one for math  function correct.

https://ufile.io/je9gz8k8
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 07, 2019, 06:56:15 pm
Congratulations @camomille, you fixed what I thought was going to be a tricky issue. I can confirm that the math function now works fine, just like the other versions. I'm curious to know how many files you have had to modify to implement all the changes (save button and math)?

Interestingly (although to be expected as you didn't touch that area) I still see the delay when trying to open the 'Display' menu entry (the one above Math) this is somewhere between several minutes and indefinitely :D. I suspect it is a latent bug left over from V1.0.8 which Owon worked around, rather than fixed - they sent me several attempts to try before finding one that worked. Even now, I see a slightly longer delay in opening Display menu on all post-V1.0.8 versions than any of the other menu items. It is clearly very specific as you can't see it and neither could Owon.

The above is not worth taking up any more of your time as, if I rename your .jar to com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar, place it in the Plugins folder and use launcher.exe, it works normally for me. I am perfectly satisfied with this solution.

One final question though. What sets up the taskbar icon for the program? Is it the .exe or the Javascript? Owon have always left the text blank (just showing the small blue 'PC' icon).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 07, 2019, 07:47:27 pm

I think it's the icon named launcher.png in folder "plugins/com/owon/uppersoft/dso/image"

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 07, 2019, 07:57:54 pm
Yes, I found that too, I was wondering about how to put some text in the taskbar Icon though. eg. "OWON" or "VDS1022". It is blank at the moment. I was hoping that there was a string definition somewhere that I could simply edit.

It's no big deal though.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 08, 2019, 05:09:36 am
try to enlarge and replace image and write your text with paint.net as attachment
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 08, 2019, 01:21:38 pm
decompilation version 1.0.28 with luyten and after a long debug , launch under eclipse with jre 1.8.0_111 unlike 1.0.23 which uses jre 1.6.0_45.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 08, 2019, 03:07:28 pm
try to enlarge and replace image and write your text with paint.net as attachment

Sadly not, [EDIT: it Windows] scales the whole thing down until it fits within a square form factor. I tried the same thing just using logo.png (rectangular), with the same result.

Not to worry, it's a trivial thing.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 08, 2019, 03:55:40 pm
this is where it is defined :
surely behind the annotation // prevents the display
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 08, 2019, 04:48:35 pm
They do seem to like commenting out their own code!  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 08, 2019, 05:20:15 pm

like that ?

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 08, 2019, 06:19:57 pm
Maybe - it depends whether the same text appears on the taskbar tab (eg. when minimised).


P.S. I feel guilty about you doing this stuff - I hope you're still finding it helpful / enjoyable (you do seem to be  :)).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 08, 2019, 06:31:59 pm
MINI /MAXI

it amuses me, give your text I will make a custom jar
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 08, 2019, 07:02:50 pm
That's good  :).

I suggest "VDS1022" in that case. This particular software only supports this model  (whether isolated and non-isolated versions are irrelevant). The FPGA folder also has the 1052 but I've never seen one of those for sale.

Thanks,
Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 08, 2019, 07:43:11 pm

like that

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 08, 2019, 07:51:41 pm
Perfect.

I just want to double check - It does appear on the task-bar icon at the bottom of the screen too?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 08, 2019, 08:21:05 pm

I can not see it I am in emulation under eclipse, the jar is not compile, I will test tomorrow.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 09, 2019, 05:29:58 am
no, just the icon.

attached the corresponding jar
https://ufile.io/qx0u5h5x

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 09, 2019, 08:37:33 am

I looked at the problem "Display" and I found why this slow, it lacks rxtxSerial.dll that you find in folder plugins / RXTXcomm 2.1.7,
place a copy next to VDS_C2_23.jar and enjoy.

https://ufile.io/o64cfpvd
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 09, 2019, 09:01:56 am
Full final version : decompress on the desk ,dbl click on VDS_C2_23.exe

https://ufile.io/1kd4j2te
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 09, 2019, 09:39:35 am
Perfect in all respects  :-+

- Math working as expected
- PNG save from main window
- Display menu opening properly
- VDS1022I text on window AND also appears in the Win7 Taskbar Icon (Win10 must show icons differently)

Many thanks @camomille!

I don't know if it's of any interest, but I have uploaded a modified version of your final VDS_C2_23.jar, with my revised Button images for Autoset, Run/Stop and Single trigger...

https://ufile.io/qrffalpn (https://ufile.io/qrffalpn)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 09, 2019, 10:11:02 am

conclusion:
 thank you for allowing me to practice to understand Java and especially the IDE of Eclipse.
Java will never be my favorite language because it is too constraining,
it is made for teamwork and multiplateform, for a developer alone, it's a hassle!
If someone wants to do the same experiment,
I will gladly do a tutorial, provide my source folder and help install everything.

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 12, 2019, 11:44:01 am

the calibration function is now in English by Ctrl L

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 14, 2019, 01:43:08 pm
Interesting camomille, I hadn't realised there was so much adjustability available. Is there a file associated with the English version or is it just a visible translation to use with the existing Chinese text in the pop-up? (That's just fine by the way).

I've come up with a new icon and launcher.png file. It probably infringes Owon's trademark, but it does make the program it much easier to recognise, both on the desktop shortcut and on the taskbar. A minor offering compared to your mods I'm afraid, but attached just in case anyone wants them.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on July 15, 2019, 07:11:52 am
Hello,

I) concerning the calibration function in English:

1) For the buttons, it is necessary to modify the file "MsgLib_en.properties" (that of your language).

The Chinese characters are not visible in sinograms, they are coded in Unicode.

To convert unicode to Chinese sinograms open the file with Notepad ++ and search for strings starting with  "\u"
Example line 122: \u901a\u9053\u540d

Convert Unicode to Chinese sinograms with this tool:
https://www.chineseconverter.com/en/convert/unicode (https://www.chineseconverter.com/en/convert/unicode)
result: "通道 名"

Translate Chinese To English:
https://translate.google.fr/?hl=fr (https://translate.google.fr/?hl=fr)
result: "Channel name"

In your MsgLib_ file replace "\u901a\u9053\u540d" by "Channel name"

2) Some keys are not wide enough to contain the text, you have to widen the 2 keys on the right.
In\Com\Owon\vds\tiny\ui\tune\TinyTuneDialog.java
line 232 100 to 170
line 240 180 to 280

3) Tab titles and country names are influenced by the "Local" function

For tabs:
com.owon.vds.tiny.tune.TinyTuneFunction
line 154 replace "SIMPLIFIED_CHINESE" with "ENGLISH"

For country names:
com.owon.uppersoft.vds.data.LocaleObject
line 33 replace "CHINESE" with "ENGLISH"

II) There is an option in "Launch4j" to add an image at VDS_C2_23.exe

III) I found how to add a language in the menu.

Example for French:

1) in com.owon.uppersoft.dso.i18n
Create a copy of the MsgLib_en.properties file and rename it to MsgLib_fr.properties

2) in com.owon.uppersoft.dso.pref.default.ini
Modify "availableLocales = zh_CN;en;ru;de;pt_BR;" in "availableLocales = zh_CN; en;fr;ru;de;pt_BR;"

3) Make the necessary translations in the MsgLib_fr.properties file.

[attach=1]

III) I have a new project, it is to add 2 cursors to the right of the cursor "Trigger" (red),
to visualize Trigger by "Pulse Width" and Trigger by "Hold Off", I am creating a form of wave in FY3224s to test these functions.

[attach=2]
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on July 15, 2019, 12:52:06 pm
Thanks very much for the very detailed write-up.

It's good to see that you're still having fun!  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on August 26, 2019, 10:14:19 am
Hi, Gyro! Thanks for this topic about OWON! :)
I ordered VDS1022 model without isoliator.
I have a request - you could share the version of software
1.0.23 and  final VDS_C2_23.jar? According to the link which you published earlier free downloading is not available.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 26, 2019, 07:57:40 pm
Hi indman,  :)

Sure, no problem. I've uploaded the Final VDS1.0.23 (the one with modifications by camomille) here: https://ufile.io/xn569hrp (https://ufile.io/xn569hrp)

The final VDS_C2_23.jar is included in the zip. You don't actually need to install the s/w, just unzip it to a folder and run the .exe - although you may need to point to the USBDRV drivers folder when first connecting the VDS1022, if you haven't already installed the it using the supplied s/w.

Note also that I have also improved some of the menu icons to make them more understandable versus the original ones. If you want to make a desktop shortcut with OW icon, change its icon setting to point at launcher.ico.


P.S. If you want all of the previous original Owon VDS1022 installation versions, they are here: https://ufile.io/6a881kh7 (https://ufile.io/6a881kh7)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on August 27, 2019, 12:38:40 pm
I'm not sure if this is an indication of boredom or just very sad...

As mentioned in my last post with the download link for indman, I have been playing around with the menu and control button icons to make them a bit more comprehensible. Some were ok, but others just made no sense to me. It obviously doesn't make any difference at the top level menu (as screenshots) because each sub-menu is named, but when you're one level down, it makes it easier (for me at least) to quickly jump between them.

If you are sad enough to want to modify them further then note that they are transparent .PNGs so you need to use something like Gimp that can preserve transparency.

To get at the icon images you need to unzip the VDS_C2_23.jar to an empty folder. The images can then be found in /com/owon/uppersoft/dso/image.  Replace or edit the ones you want and then, using 7zip (but selecting zip format), re-archive the top level folder contents (ie. the folder tree), with the file extension changed to .jar This works with the original owon .jar file or the one modified by camomille.

The images in the attached zip file have filenames that match the relevant existing ones, so will overwrite them. You might want to stick an OLD_ on the front of the existing image names if you want to be able to revert to them.

The only other file in the .zip is launcher.ico, this can be used as an alternative icon for a desktop shortcut.

Below are the 'before' and 'after' screenshots, together with the zip of the image files.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on August 27, 2019, 02:42:52 pm
Gyro, I like the icons changed by you - they in more detail and visually display the maintenance of each menu item.
I was interested in version 1.0.23 as the stablest and working in every sense. On its basis I want to edit translation(thanks camomille) of a cover into Russian language for myself. Probably the person who not absolutely well owns it was engaged in translation into Russian.
Thanks for your work and archive with files!  :D
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on August 31, 2019, 01:41:11 pm
Hello,
2) Some keys are not wide enough to contain the text, you have to widen the 2 keys on the right.
In\Com\Owon\vds\tiny\ui\ta\TinyTuneDialog.java
line 232 100 to 170
line 240 180 to 280

3) Tab titles and country names are influenced by the "Local" function

For tabs:
com.owon.vds.tiny.tune.TinyTuneFunction
line 154 replace "SIMPLIFIED_CHINESE" with "ENGLISH"

For country names:
com.owon.uppersoft.vds.data.LocaleObject
line 33 replace "CHINESE" with "ENGLISH"


Hi!
I can 't find these files in the VDS_C2_23.jar archive?
I only found them in the folder plugins/com.owon.vds.tiny.source_1.0.7.jar
How do I edit the calibration menu then? :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on August 31, 2019, 03:38:08 pm
Hi,

  @ indman

Error file is in :

\com\owon\vds\tiny\ui\tune\TinyTuneDialog.class

Regards
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on August 31, 2019, 05:02:22 pm
Hi camomille,TinyTuneDialog.class - binary file, how to edit it?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on August 31, 2019, 06:58:59 pm

I answered a little fast, because in my post 33 I describe what I did with the keys,

but you do not have to do it (it's already done).

You just have to do your translation in Russian.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on September 01, 2019, 11:04:00 am
Hi,camomille!
Thanks for the answer, but I don 't want to install eclipse. You could provide me with a modified file TinyTuneDialog.class ?  :)
Some keys are not wide enough to contain text.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on September 01, 2019, 11:53:25 am
Hi,

Give me the widths that suit you

Calibrator key width my version VDS_C2_23:

<< Reset tx parameters = 170
Calibration = 100
Save the pameters to txt = 180
Parameter wrong device and factory setting = 280
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on September 01, 2019, 12:33:48 pm
Reset txt parameters = 180
Calibration = 100
Save the parameters to txt = 260
Parameter writing device and factory setting = 280
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on September 01, 2019, 03:24:47 pm

Very complicated because interaction of the positions of the keys.

For aesthetic reasons, I set "<< Reset txt parameters" to 200

and "Save the parameters to txt" to 280.

That's what happens.

I will compile tomorrow.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on September 02, 2019, 05:25:50 am
Hi,

VDS_C2_23 Russian special compiled version (extended calibrator keys).

https://ufile.io/jr26sfbl

I hope you can write us a tutorial "How to calibrate a VDS1022"

good luck
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 05, 2019, 05:01:24 pm
Hi guys!
I got my long expected OWON VDS1022 without the letter "I"!
I also got a set of extra parts ADUM3160 and
DCP0205, which was ordered by Aliexpress. After removing 8 SMD short jumpers, i soldered these chips in place and got a working model VDS1022I   :D
A photo of the board before the upgrade i attach to my message.
Next i installed the software version 1.0.23, which with the kind help of respected Gyro and camomille i supplemented with Russian language, beautiful icons and which i very much like!  :-+ 
Sorry about my English, i 'm using a translator! :palm:
Next, i decided to test the actual bandwidth of the oscilloscope input path. For this purpose I used a professional Russian high-frequency generator Г4-148 (100MHz) and a load of 50 ohms.
Just to follow up, I ran a frequency scan today as I indicated. I used an Adret 730A synthesized sig gen with 50 ohm through-terminator directly at the scope input. At 1Vrms signal level. Averaging was turned on:
Channel 1 was -3dB at 34.7MHz
Channel 2 was -3dB at 31.2MHz
My oscilloscope has about the same bandwidth of up to 32 MHz in both channels. This can be seen in my screenshots.
Next, I wanted to check how accurately the instrument measures AC and DC voltage, how accurate the calibration is, and can you trust the readings of this item?
I gave the instrument 30 minutes to warm up and stabilize the temperature and then did the calibration procedure via the Utilities menu.
To begin with, I connected the inputs of the CH1 and CH2 test probes to the output of the calibrator 5V 1kHz. Also to monitor the voltage level at this output, i connected my Brymen867. As you can see in the photo, the oscilloscope measured Vrms and Vpp quite accurately. The divider on the probes was in position x10. Next, i switched the divider to position x1 and connected my sample DC voltage source, which is assembled on the available chip AD584, to the test probes.
First I measured the 2.499V voltage at the 1V/del limit. The default calibration is pretty well tuned, I didn 't adjust anything extra. Vtop=2.480V for both channels.
Then I measured the same voltage at 500mV/del. Vtop=2.360V for CH1 and Vtop=2.340V for CH2, CorseGain=0.962(1) and CorseGain=0.965(2)
I changed the values CorseGain=0 .973 (1) and CorseGain=0 .976 (2). I then saved the calibration values with the SaveCalibration button and the measured voltage became Vtop = 2.480V for both channels. Next I measured the voltage 5.00V,7.50V and 10.00V and got quite convincing results. This is not bad for this class of USB oscilloscope!

Now I have a few questions about the design of the program interface. By what principle do you select the red beam color for the first channel and the yellow beam color for the second channel? Is it possible to change this palette to another palette? I would prefer to have a green beam on the first channel, as on an analog instrument.
In this shell, the green color has an FFT operation.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 05, 2019, 06:34:18 pm
Hi indman,

I'm glad that you got your scope and managed to carry out the 'I' modification successfully. That's a pretty impressive montage of trace pictures - you've been having fun!  :-+

 I haven't played with the coarse gain adjustments yet. I'm surprised that you managed to get such close DC measurement results with the 8 bit ADCs - you must have achieved almost exact 1 mV per bit matching with the ADC and internal reference.

With regard to the trace colours. I haven't tried modifying them myself.  the only factor really tying them with the colour stripes of the probes. I'm not sure if you've found it yet, but green is already used by the maths/FFT display, so that would need to be changed too.

I'm am sure it must be possible to change the trace colours. Looking through the preference files, e.g. /configuration/com.owon.uppersoft.dso/pref.properties I can see RGB colours (for up to four traces (different models) in plain text format. I think I maybe saw it in other pref files in the folder tree too, such as inside the VDS_C2_23.jar file (eg. /com.owon.uppersoft.dso/pref/scopeInfo.ini and maybe others) which you would need to unzip, modify and re-zipped as for other mods.

As I said, I haven't played with these settings, but I wonder if they affect just the trace colours, or the channel settings boxes (bottom left) too. As long as you keep backups, I don't see how you could cause any trouble by experimenting.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 05, 2019, 07:47:39 pm
Gyro thanks for the answer! I myself was pleasantly surprised that the entry-level oscilloscope was accurate enough for radio-loving tasks to take DC and AC measurements.
Yes, I already wrote in my previous message that FFT operations have a green display color. It 's much easier for me to deal with the impressive montage of trace pictures than it is to deal with the software compilation. :) If anyone is able to change the color palette, I would be grateful. And I think I 'm not the only one.

I have another question about how the program works. If I freeze the picture on the display with the Pause button and then press it again in 1-2 minutes, the program makes a reconnection. Do you have such a problem?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 07, 2019, 10:17:03 am
Hi,

I tried to change the color of channel 1 to green, but without success.
I do not confess defeated, but it's not easy, I'll try again at my lost moments.
It seems even more difficult to change the color of the FFT curve.
What is certain is that only 3 colors are known for the afterglow for the 2-channel model.
red (FF0000)
yellow (FFFF00)
green (00FF00)
I'll let you know if I'm getting results

regards
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 07, 2019, 02:51:27 pm
Yes, I suspected that it might not be so easy because the two channel settings boxes (bottom left) have gradient fill, not solid colour.

This was actually a question that I remember asking Owon support a few years ago, because I thought the Red would be awkward to read. They said that they couldn't do it (which didn't mean much, as they wouldn't want to spend much time on anything that wasn't a bug fix anyway), but in practice I get on with it just fine.

That was in the days before camomille's magic fingers though!  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 07, 2019, 03:18:10 pm
Hello Gyro,

I found several locations in the program with "color.red" or "RGB (" FF0000 ") that seemed to me to match, I tried to change with" color.green "or" RGB ("00FF00"),
but no change, always the red channel 1.
I have to put my finger on the right place, but you have to be a magician or have a lot of luck.
I search by period because it takes my head.

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 11, 2019, 11:42:59 am
Hello,

it's moving slowly but surely

Here are the changes to have channel 1 in green and math in red,

For trace and label channel 1 Green Just 1 line to modified
in com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0/com/owon/uppersoft/dso/wf/ChannelInfo
line 120 replace "FF0000" by "00FF00"

For trace and label Math Red Just 1 line to modified
in com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0/com/owon/uppersoft/dso/function/perspective/CompositeWaveForm
line 74 replace Color.green by Color.red

for FFT red Just 2 lines to modified
in com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\function\FFTView
for label red
line 405 replace Color.GREEN by Color.RED
for trace red
line 486 replace Color.green by Color.red
[attach=1]
[attach=4]
we must now change the 2 png for channel 1 (bottom left) select / unselect from red to green,
but to do it takes time (and courage),difficult because of the color gradient

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 11, 2019, 12:25:52 pm
camomille, You 're a wizard, I admire your work every time! :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 11, 2019, 01:43:02 pm
@Gyro and indman

Thank you for your compliments, but it is only time and gray matter and a little intuition.

I do not use the VDS1022 enough and I count on you to see if all the colors match your expectations.
if you do not want to modify your versions, recover the 3 CLASS files in the JAR.

Link for JAR file :

https://ufile.io/frjbv6yk

Regards

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 11, 2019, 03:02:30 pm
Excellent intuition Alain,

Sadly, though my intuition isn't bad, my grey matter is distinctly leaky!

Anyway, to do the easy bit... I have attached updated images, relevant to the CH1 green change, to the ball1 icon, and the Menu Channel settings and Math settings icons. I think they are the only ones affected. [Edit: The last two ONLY if you are using my revised menu icons, otherwise, just ball1.png]

As usual, these overwrite the image files in the com/owon/uppersoft/dso/image folder within the JAR file. I have included backups of the original files with an 'OLD' 'PREV'prefix.

Regards,
Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 11, 2019, 03:49:17 pm
Guys, big thanks this color update works fine and I like it! :-+
I don 't have very good vision, so green is important to me, just like the benefits of a large display window. I also replaced the rings of red with green at one of the probes.
In addition, now even my USB Tester by color corresponds to the color palette Owon ;D  In the photo, I showed the amount of current my oscillograph consumes after the upgrade.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 11, 2019, 04:04:25 pm
To replace uns1.png and sel1.png
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 11, 2019, 05:31:25 pm
Ah, I never noticed those in the skins folders! Thanks Alain.  :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 11, 2019, 06:33:48 pm
I can do something in a photoshop, too  :)
For black and blue themes
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 11, 2019, 07:25:41 pm
It's a lot better than me, you got them incorporated or do you want me to redo a new compilation?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 11, 2019, 07:47:09 pm
Version indman (photoshop) 

sel1 / uns1 Black and Blue skin

https://ufile.io/p599w6ot


Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 11, 2019, 08:25:58 pm
It's a lot better than me, you got them incorporated or do you want me to redo a new compilation?
camomille, thanks, I learned how to replace files with new ones in the JAR archive  :)
Now everything looks and works perfectly! Respect!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 12, 2019, 07:10:22 am

I changed my last link because there were some warnings at the compilation.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 12, 2019, 08:13:46 am
Hi camomille!
Don 't think I 'm too brazen and a lot of things I want :palm:
I have one question about translating the interface into Russian language.
Is it possible to change messages in this window to Cyrillic?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 12, 2019, 08:15:47 am
For indman

For your reboot problem after a break, I do not know this problem because I do not use the VDS1022
but I think the track to follow would be rather the USB bus controllers with the power option try unchecked.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 12, 2019, 08:19:06 am
it does not bother me, I will look for the OFFLINE
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: rsjsouza on November 12, 2019, 03:53:32 pm
Yesterday I used a promotion on Aliexpress and pulled the trigger on a VDS1022I not in small part due to the developments done on this thread. It is pretty cool to see the work done by the community to make such neat unit be even more usable. Thank you!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 12, 2019, 04:25:01 pm
Hello,

Welcome rsjsouza, when you have your device, do not hesitate to ask for advice for the installation of the software.

For indman,

I have located the place where I stored the strings to display in the "TriggerStatus" window, but for now it returns an error message if I modify the text.
I hope to understand  :box:

Regards

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 12, 2019, 07:57:17 pm
@camomille:

Alain, you also need a green ball1.png for the Channel 1 trigger source... attached.

I've also attached the entire image folder for the JAR which includes all of the icons, including the above and your skin files, together with my revised Menu icons (Reply #376) modified for Green channel 1.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 12, 2019, 08:11:12 pm
Yesterday I used a promotion on Aliexpress and pulled the trigger on a VDS1022I not in small part due to the developments done on this thread. It is pretty cool to see the work done by the community to make such neat unit be even more usable. Thank you!

The more, the merrier.

There's excellent work going on in the Hantek thread too but it's always going to be limited by its less advanced hardware than the Owon, particularly triggering.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: rsjsouza on November 12, 2019, 10:00:44 pm
Yes, the Hantek hardware is a crap shoot when compared to the Owon. Several reviews (including mikeselectricstuff) point to the honesty of Owon's hardware design and build.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 07:20:58 am
Hello,

@Gyro

Thank you for the complete file "images" that allowed me to update my emulator because as you have noticed I am more technical than aesthetic and in addition you are much more talented than me.

@indman

I think I found how the program accesses the list of words "TriggerStatus", but it is necessary that eclipse accepts the Cyrillic in its instructions, it is necessary to modify 5 lines in Cyrillic from "Offline" to "Невсети"
confirm eng / russ conversion of "Offline"

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 13, 2019, 08:31:54 am
Hi camomille!
Are you implying that I will have to install and study eclipse? :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 08:36:49 am
@Gyro

Sorry but after exchanging image files, impossible to compile, error messages.
I reinstall my old version, it will be like before changing your personal pictures. |O

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 08:41:53 am
@indman
no you do not have to install eclipse, it's me who must have incorporated the Cyrillic, I'm just asking you to confirm the text I wrote in Cyrillic. (post 413)
Only disadvantage (for me), your JAR version will be specific.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 09:38:59 am
@indman

Is good ?

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 13, 2019, 09:48:10 am
@Gyro

Sorry but after exchanging image files, impossible to compile, error messages.
I reinstall my old version, it will be like before changing your personal pictures. |O

Alain

Ha, that's the first time anyone has called me aesthetically talented!  :D

I'm sorry that the image folder caused you compilation errors. It works fine for me, but of course I am simply inserting it into the completed JAR file, so the compiler never sees it. I suppose it's possible that there is an image size error somewhere. I'm not sure if you could stomach such an ad-hoc method (adding after compilation) without sufficient explanation of the errors!

The ball1.png should at least cause you no compilation errors.

I hoped the complete image folder might save you some time. I have attached just the files related to my revised look (edited for green) individually, in case that helps.

If all else fails, indman knows how to substitute image files in the JAR now so he can do it at his leisure while you're looking at the 'Offline' status.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 13, 2019, 09:58:30 am
@indman

Is good ?

Can you show me the entire message list in this trigger window? Do I understand correctly that the maximum length of a word in this window can be 7 characters?
I would translate "Offline" as "Нет сети" and "Auto" as "Авто"  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 10:01:53 am
@Gyro
This is not too serious, because I had to reserve a precedent "workspace" complete.
I reinstated 2 "workspace" (ENG / RUSS) by inspiring me from my posts which serve me memory (that's why I always describe my modifications).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 10:34:47 am
Here is the list of texts displayed in the window "Status"

Auto,Ready,Trg_d,Scan,Stop,Error,ReCfg,AutoSetting,Offline,USBFound,USBDrvErr,MachineNotSupport,Linking,Connect,Detect,Initialize

the program modify these texts :

"Trg_d" is convert in "Trig'd"
"Detect" is convert in "Match"
"Initialize" is convert in "Syncing"
"ReCfg" is convert in "ReSyncing"
"Autosetting" is convert in Autoset..."

It seems that the text modify width of the window (max 10 char !)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 13, 2019, 10:46:22 am
Oh my god, I didn 't think there would be that many messages! :palm:
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 10:54:15 am
there are surely some who are fugitive
Choose priorities because it's a lot of work.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 13, 2019, 11:40:27 am
camomille,I will probably have to disturb my grey matter and learn to work with eclipse myself. I don 't want to bother you with my requests anymore.  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 01:47:04 pm
@indman

Eclipse is only a tool that must be mastered, but the difficulty is to learn and understand the Java language.
Me, I do not know either, as I said before, it's enough to have time, gray matter and intuition.
In addition to these difficulties, you must constantly translate the notes into Chinese, understand in French (my language), convert to English (for all the world) and possibly incorporate Russian.
I do not speak English or Russian and it is the biggest difficulty because I spend a lot of time with the automatic translator and the checking so that it is almost comprehensible.
If you have time, gray matter and intuition (I think so), then I can give you a tutorial to install it and give you the source in a "workspace".
Otherwise I can make you the incorporation of your texts in Cyrillic, but we must limit you for an important reason, is that I must search all calls to this list for each word and copy / paste your word in Cyrillic, the problem is that if I forget one, at some point your program will be stoped without knowing why and I would not know why.
I will already try with the 2 words "Offline" and "Auto" that you have communicated to me in Cyrillic and you will test.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 02:05:58 pm
@indman

test with "Нет сети" rejected, apparently it does not tolerate the spaces in the messages, would "Нет_сети" be readable?

I'm not sure he passes because he converted "Trg_d" into "Trig'd", no "underscore" in the direct list.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 13, 2019, 02:17:35 pm
@indman
If you have time, gray matter and intuition (I think so), then I can give you a tutorial to install it and give you the source in a "workspace".

Yeah, I 'd like to try it.
I 'm not sure I 'll quickly deal with a new tool for me after your explanation.

test with "Нет сети" rejected, apparently it does not tolerate the spaces in the messages, would "Нет_сети" be readable?
I'm not sure he passes because he converted "Trg_d" into "Trig'd", no "underscore" in the direct list.
Yes, "Нет_сети" will be well perceived
"Trig 'd" is meant as "TriggerDetected"?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 03:12:36 pm
@indman

"Нет_сети" has passed but "Авто" does not want (error message), surely implications with the real "Auto"

Here is the link version RUSS (status "Нет сети" + extended calibration module for Cyrillic CTRL L).

https://ufile.io/ghszrdyu

rename VDS_C2_23_RUSS in VDS_C2_23

"Trig'd" no idea

If you want a tutorial to install eclipse, tell me your operating system and if 32 or 64
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 13, 2019, 03:39:01 pm
camomille,Windows7 64bit,thanks

For your reboot problem after a break, I do not know this problem because I do not use the VDS1022
but I think the track to follow would be rather the USB bus controllers with the power option try unchecked.
I did as you suggested, but it didn 't solve the problem. After a pause of 1 minute or more, the program reports the error with this message "Read or write content err and disconect" and reconnects.
If the pause is shorter, everything works fine.
"Нет_сети" has passed but "Авто" does not want (error message), surely implications with the real "Auto"
Here is the link version RUSS (status "Нет сети" + extended calibration module for Cyrillic CTRL L).
I checked - it works well. What CLASS files have you changed so I can replace them in the JAR archive?
I 'm right - "Trig 'd" is meant as "TriggerDetected"
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 13, 2019, 04:50:34 pm
I wonder if I have installed a fresh version of 1.0.30 and there is no such effect with the PAUSE button - everything works normally. Can any of the scope owners confirm my version? :-//
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 13, 2019, 05:06:04 pm
Here is the list of modified files for Offline in Cyrillic

owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\source\comm\TrgStatus
line 25 replace Offline by Нет_сети
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\source\comm\detect\InitLinkRunner
line 54 replace TrgStatus.Offline by TrgStatus.Нет_сети
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\source\comm\detect\USBLoopChecker
line 109 replace TrgStatus.Offline by TrgStatus.Нет_сети
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\TitlePane
line 139 replace TrgStatus.Offline by TrgStatus.Нет_сети
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\TitleStatusLabel
line 73 replace TrgStatus.Offline by TrgStatus.Нет_сети

all these files for 1 word
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 13, 2019, 05:37:58 pm
I wonder if I have installed a fresh version of 1.0.30 and there is no such effect with the PAUSE button - everything works normally. Can any of the scope owners confirm my version? :-//

I'm afraid I can't remember. From my records, this is the list of changes that I (and others) observed between the various versions...

V1.0.11
- Fixed delay in bringing up 'Display' menu (introduced in V1.0.8 )
- Skins working (Black / Blue).
- Math function works Ch1 - Ch2
- FPGA Image V3.5

V1.0.23
- Java Sources included in distribution (oops!).
- Skins working
- Math function broken Ch1 - Ch2 defaults to 5V range, changing it results in flat-line.
- FPGA Image V3.5

V1.0.27
- Math function works
- Skins work
- FPGA Image V3.5

V1.0.28
- FPGA Image V3.7 introduced

V1.0.29
- FPGA Image V3.7
- com.google.gson_2.1.0.v201203072145.jar added to plugins folder (?)


V1.0.30
- FPGA Image V3.7
- com.google.gson_2.1.0.v201203072145.jar in plugins folder.
- Doesn't remember timebase settings across program close.
- Crash when zooming horizontal when in stopped mode.


It is all a little irrelevant though, because it was only V1.0.23 where Owon accidentally included the source files in the distribution. You wouldn't be able to get the Cyrillic changes on the other versions.

Can I suggest using the image save button to capture screenshots rather than keeping the scope in pause for long periods, maybe that would be sufficient to get you over the issue.

The only other thing that Owon introduced in V1.0.28+ was a new FPGA code version - V3.7. If I remember correct, I was able to copy that from the V1.0.30 'fpga' folder and drop it into the V1.0.23 fpga folder without any issues. Whether it makes a difference though...?


P.S. The above list isn't completely comprehensive - different experiences of V1.0.30, maybe related to what version was installed previously.


EDIT:  I've just got my VDS out and checked the Pause button behaviour -  It's working fine on Alain's latest V1.0.23.  Maybe try reinstalling the USB driver... or re-running V1.0.23 after your new install of V1.0.30.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 14, 2019, 02:02:48 pm
EDIT:  I've just got my VDS out and checked the Pause button behaviour -  It's working fine on Alain's latest V1.0.23.  Maybe try reinstalling the USB driver... or re-running V1.0.23 after your new install of V1.0.30.

After your advice, my grey matter came into motion and today I spent a few hours investigating the causes with the Pause button problem.
I installed the original version of owon 1.0.23 without any changes to 2 different computers with the Windows7 64bit operating system. Libusb driver version -1.2.6.0
On both computers the behavior of Pause button was absolutely the same - after 30 or more seconds USB reconnection occurred.
Then I decided to install a newer version of 1.0.27 on both computers as well.
In this version, the Pause button does not cause problems, you can stop the image for any length of time.
Then I installed an older version of 1.0.11 and in its work there is also a problem with the Pause button. So the developer has fixed this problem since version 1.0.27.
Next, I tried to determine which of the JAR archives had changed and, by comparison, I calculated that if you move the folder plugins/com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar archive from version 1.0.27 to version 1.0.23, the problem disappears.
Next to this item, my grey matter is not yet moving. :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 14, 2019, 02:21:50 pm
what matters is that your problem is solved. :-+
I checked, I also have the driver libusb_win32 1.2.6.0 of 18/01/12.
I'm on the tutorial eclipse and to be sure I made a new installation on another computer with Windows 7 64 bit and it works perfectly.
I only have the layout, maybe this Week end !
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 14, 2019, 06:39:42 pm
Next, I tried to determine which of the JAR archives had changed and, by comparison, I calculated that if you move the folder plugins/com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar archive from version 1.0.27 to version 1.0.23, the problem disappears.

That's very useful information. :-+

I have suspected for a while that 'traces' left by other versions of the S/W can affect what problems can show up - so much that when I was trying to generate my list of version differences, I kept getting confused by what was reliably broken! If you look back a few pages at comments about the Owon website copy of 1.0.30 you will see mention of the bugs I listed, however reinstalling different versions made them not reproducible. I was also convinced that the skin selection function got broken in (I think) 1.0.28 and then fixed again in 1.0.29, but again, I eventually started doubting myself on that too. One thing that seemed consistent - the CD version that comes with the scope almost universally works.

The good thing about Alain's rebuild of V1.0.23 is that it doesn't actually need installing any more, just unzip and run from the folder.

One thing I can say though is that 1.0.23 is a nice vintage!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 15, 2019, 12:45:07 pm
To do this tutorial correctly,I tested the complete and functional installation on Windows 7 64 bits virgin of any previous installation
I am not a professional programmer, just a passionate enthusiast of electronics and a Microsoft Basic language experience (VB6) so do not blame me if it's not perfect, it's to help people take the first step.
To reassure people who embark on this adventure, Eclipse is a great tool easy to understand and if Pascal language is the most used in the world, it is for the same reason.
I will do a little tutorial later with my tips to find places to annotate to make its own changes.
Excuse me for my bad English because the translator is my friend.
PREALABLE

To be compatible with VDS1022 source V1.0.23, 32-bit versions of programs must be installed
Respect the order indicated to avoid questions to which I will not be able to answer.

INSTALLATION

1) Create a "DEV" folder with a subfolder "jre6"    (C:\Program Files (x86)\DEV\jre6)
   Create a  folder "Protect" on the desk

2) Installation JAVA (jre 6.45)
https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/java-archive-javase8-2177648.html (https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/java-archive-javase8-2177648.html)
Oracle will ask you to open an account (Free license)
[attach=1]

Check  "Accept Licence Agreement" and download jre-8u111-windows-i586.exe (not jdk-8u111-windows-i586.exe)
[attach=2]

Install jre-8u111-windows-i586.exe ,change the destination folder in "DEV / jre6" and refuse updates

[attach=8]

3) Download my "workspace 1.0.23.7z" and uncompressed 2 times 1 time on the desktop and 1 time in the folder "Protect" (original for a clean restart)

workspace 1.0.23.7z
https://ufile.io/38k65e74 (https://ufile.io/38k65e74)

Or for Russian

workspace 1.0.23_russ.7z
https://ufile.io/3rm8uyma (https://ufile.io/3rm8uyma)

4) Installation of Eclipse (Mars SR2 Packages (2016 - v4.5.2)) https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/release/mars/r (https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/release/mars/r)
[attach=3]

download : Eclipse for RCP and RAP Developers 32-bit version
Unziper eclipse-rcp-mars-R-win32.zip in the "C: \ Program Files (x86) \ DEV \" (eclipse does not need installation)
Create an eclipse.exe shortcut on the desktop.
Launch eclipse from the desktop shortcut

At the first launch eclipse asks for the path of workpace ,change the path of the workpace with path
workspace 1.0.23  (workspace 1.0.23_russ for Russian) in the desk
and check "Use this as default and do not ask again"
[attach=4]
Now you have a complete installation, just click on the white arrow in a green circle and you have emulation of the VDS1022.
[attach=5]
[attach=6]

OPTIONNEL

1) Language Pack (for non-English speakers)

link for the Russian language (all other languages are present on the same page) https://archive.eclipse.org/technology/babel/babel_language_packs/R0.12.0/luna/luna.php (https://archive.eclipse.org/technology/babel/babel_language_packs/R0.12.0/luna/luna.php)
[attach=7]
Copy / Paste the contents of each folder (features, plugins) in its equivalent to the root of the Eclipse installation

2) JAR launcher (to redo the launcher provided)launch4j 3.12
https://sourceforge.net/projects/launch4j/files/launch4j-3/3.12/ (https://sourceforge.net/projects/launch4j/files/launch4j-3/3.12/)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For newcomers, I give the first links to launch VDS1022 without installing it.
VDS_C2_23.7z
https://ufile.io/1kd4j2te (https://ufile.io/1kd4j2te)
rxtxSerial.dll
https://ufile.io/o64cfpvd (https://ufile.io/o64cfpvd)

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 15, 2019, 02:50:03 pm
Captain Alain I have implemented your detailed recommendations in the same order, thank you very much! :-+
Eclipse starts, but I 'm alarmed by the message I highlighted in red. Is that okay?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 15, 2019, 03:34:56 pm
I have no mistakes on my new installation on Windows 7 64 bits and in english !
It may have been necessary to try without installing the Russian language right now.
0 errors ,normally it' s good ,the warning are not mistakes ,it must be because of the russian language.
What happens if you click on the white arrow in  a green circle (no need to be connected to vds1022)
You can close all the tabs that I forgot to close, except the Main.java which must always remain open .
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 15, 2019, 03:53:27 pm
Yes, the VDS1022 shell opens normally without a scope connection. :D
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 15, 2019, 04:20:58 pm
You are a great chef,  :-+ :-+ ,you can now connected the VDS1022 ,close VDS1022 window and relaunch the white arrow in the green circle
I will do a little tutorial later to indicate how I search (but it takes a lot of nose) and it is important to know what you are looking for.
In any case, as there is no installation of this version of eclipse, you can simply put the eclipse folder in the trash and dezip it again in the "DEV" folder (not for java which is installed). :-DD
and if you plant the "workspace", you have a brand new one in the folder "Protect"
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 15, 2019, 04:57:00 pm
I 'm not afraid to know anything new, especially if there 's a teacher like you! ;D
My grey matter is still capable of it, I hope. :-DD
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 15, 2019, 05:26:20 pm
Many thanks for doing the writeups Alain.

indman's need is greater than mine (thanks to you, I don't actually have anything I want to change at the moment), but I will be following along.

Your Reply #425 made it sound sooo appealing!  ;D
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 16, 2019, 02:16:14 pm
I first want to apologize to Gyro for monopolizing his thread for off-topic, but eventually it may be beneficial to others.
I do not intend to do a course on eclipse or Java because I'm not a specialist, but simply communicate some tips and tricks to help beginners (of course it will laugh professionals).
I preferred to make a document to not take up too much space.

https://ufile.io/lsx8je0u

As an example I took my search procedure to change the color of curves:
The research phase (2 modes):
1) with eclipse, the search only displays the first occurrence, you have to open the following folders to see everything.
Warning it tends to change tab.

[attach=1]

2) with Notepad ++
involves uploading the source folder (contained in version 1.0.23) to the "Protect" folder
, the search displays all the occurrences and in addition displays the notes in original Chinese which allows to make a copy/paste to a translator.
At first, we only have the word "red", so we start a search with Notepad ++,
we notice that many are called "color.red", we restart a search with "color.red".

[attach=2]

Now you have to be inspired by looking at the name of the JAR file containing the word "color.red",
I was inspired by "ChartDecorater" and I print it thanks to notepad++ which preserves syntactic colors.
Then I format the impression of this class in pencil and stabilo to understand and make notes

[attach=3]

Inspire by the paintLabels () function line 137 and line 172 wfm.paintWaveFormInfo (g2d, pc, r, cm, lr, cssm);
line 36 indicates wfm = WaveFormManager
print class WaveFormManager, pencil, stabilo

[attach=4]

inspire by the function WaveFormInfoControl () line 550 and line 584 wf.paintItem (g2d, pc, r, cm, false)
especially at line 580 there is wf.getChannelNumber ().
line 29 indicates wf = WaveForm
print Waveform class, pencil, stabilo

[attach=5]

Inspire by the paintItem () function line 289 and
line 306 LineUtil.paintChannelLabel (yb, y, bottom, g2d, String.valueOf (ci.getNumber () + 1), 2, onFront);
print LineUtil class, pencil, stabilo

[attach=6]

Analysis of the paintChannelLabel () function line 46
We can see that he draws the left label of the lines 118/119 and a line 111 to 116.
Only the color of the background "DARK_GRAY" is defined, it is necessary to go back for the color of the plot.
Return to the paintItem function of the WaveForm class
at line 300 ChannelInfo ci = wfi.ci; and 301 g2d.setColor (getColor ());
line 116 defined wfi = WaveFormInfo and in the class WaveFormInfo line 24 we read that ci = ChannelInfo
So we look in the class ChannelInfo and we find the RGB () line 117 and then the color for 4 channels 120 to 123 lines.
Simply replace "FF0000" with "00FF00" to switch channel 1 from red to green.

It was simple !!!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 16, 2019, 05:21:52 pm
I first want to apologize to Gyro for monopolizing his thread for off-topic, but eventually it may be beneficial to others.

Hey Alain, there's absolutely no need for any apology to me!  :o

The 'teardown' portion of this thread has long run its course. You are adding great value by opening up the possibility to enhance and modify the S/W - I, for one, am very grateful to you!

There is nothing to stop people continuing to asking H/W or other questions or hopefully even post improvements at the same time.

As far as I'm concerned you are very on-topic, this is a natural and very welcome progression of the thread (which I have no claim on 'owning' anyway).

I am following your write-ups with interest and as much grey matter as I can muster!

Chris.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 16, 2019, 05:34:50 pm
Thanks Chris, but it's in my nature to communicate to help people with the little that I know. :phew:
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 17, 2019, 09:51:55 am
Small tutorial for eclipse

To work on multiple versions of VDS1022, create a copy on the workspace 1.0.23 desktop and rename it as you want.
Then change the path:

[attach=1]

To create a JAR file (ignore messages):

[attach=2]

To debug with breakpoint:

[attach=3]
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 17, 2019, 11:53:22 am
I've caught up with indman and also have the shell running under Eclipse. Thanks Alain.  :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 17, 2019, 12:01:29 pm
Glad you have also taken the step, anyway, it's a good experience.
Do not hesitate if you need advice and I can answer
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 18, 2019, 05:45:39 pm
it's possible (run with "org.eclipse.equinox.launcher_1.3.0.v20120522-1813.jar")
Mission accomplished
Hi camomille!
Can you name the files that have been changed for the Save button function? :)
Studying eclipse I get hard - I am not a programmer and not at all familiar with Java language. :palm:
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on November 19, 2019, 07:49:00 am
@indman

Everything is in my posts 327 and 331.
The goal was to discover the instruction that makes screenshots and adapt it to the bottom icon.

owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\pane\function\UtilityPane
the instruction screenshot (2 lines 260 and 261, see curly brackets)

[attach=1]

owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\sub\ButtonPane
the instruction to save text (line 107) that must be modified to obtain a screenshot.

[attach=2]

Line 107 has been modified after many tests (because I do not know Java either) to arrive at this change that works.

[attach=3]

Make with a practical addon on Notepad ++  "compare"
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 20, 2019, 11:49:40 am
Hello to everyone!
After numerous experiments, I was able to combine in one archive all the advantages of version 1.0.23 with the excellent additions from Alain and the library from version 1.0.30.
I suggest you check this portable version on your devices.
In addition, I made some new icons for the shell and also updated the icon for the launcher VDS1022. Now just unpack this backup and run the shell with the VDS1022.exe file. If you already have USB drivers installed, everything should work normally. If no drivers are installed, you must install them by running install.bat from the USBDRV folder.  :)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nygEmjECjqWPxkZUylIh-6TrZdQV8evK
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 20, 2019, 12:53:01 pm
You're becoming quite the artist indman  :) I like the button tidy-ups.

BTW, the sel boxes look better with linear fill rather than radial (the unsl ones are linear anyway). You still have a hint of Red in your sel1. I modified the sel2 to match.

The unsl ones don't need to be changed.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Tinderbox (UK) on November 20, 2019, 03:31:12 pm
I was going to buy one from Ebay to get the best prices, But the sellers dont know what they are selling, The title of their listing is for an OWON VDS1022I but the photo`s are from an OWON VDS1022, The non isolated version.

I messaged two sellers and got nonsense reply`s so i bought from neither.

Being in the UK they hit us hard with import charges on anything over £15 and that includes shipping, So i order from UK sellers only when the value is over £15, As if i order like from AliExpress anything over £15 You have to add 20% tax and £8 Royal Mail handling charge.

John.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 20, 2019, 05:58:18 pm
There is no difference in the labelling on the top of the unit between the non-isolated and isolated versions. They both say VDS1022. The isolation is a PCB population option.

The only way it is distinguished is on the serial number label on the underside.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Tinderbox (UK) on November 21, 2019, 08:57:29 am
There is no difference in the labelling on the top of the unit between the non-isolated and isolated versions. They both say VDS1022. The isolation is a PCB population option.

The only way it is distinguished is on the serial number label on the underside.

That seems a strange practice, But it explains what i have been seeing, Thanks

John.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: crai on November 21, 2019, 05:01:13 pm
First apologize for my English since it is not my first language.
I bought a VDS1022I 2 weeks ago and it is a good oscilloscope for its price. I just found this thread and there is a lot of information about it. Thank you all for that.
I installed the original software version 1.0.29 and it works mostly well. The only annoying fault I found is that the pulse trigger does not respect the specified time. Moreover, the time x10 must be specified. For example, to synchronize with a 1mS pulse, you must specify in the 10mS software.
I downloaded a version 1.0.24 from the Internet and it has the same bug, but since this version included the source code, I decided to try to compile it and correct the bug. Fortunately I was able to do it without inconvenience and it works perfectly (comment on line 30 of ClockTimeAdjuster.java [// en - = 1;]).
Now in this thread I see that camomille did a similar job with Eclipse and 1.0.23 (which is mostly the same as 1.0.24 except for some detail and comments). I did it with Netbeans.
Unfortunately in 1.0.24 I got a new bug (which is already reported in this thread) which is the USB disconnection in stop mode. In version 1.0.29 it is not disconnected from USB in stop mode, therefore I decided to sniffer the USB connection with both versions and see the difference. And bingo! Version 1.0.24 does not generate any traffic while in stop mode, but version 1.0.29 continues to send and receive "keep alive" packets every 2 seconds. I disassembled some classes in version 1.0.29 to compare them, and I could implement in 1.0.24 the sending of "keep alive" packages (heartbeat), so now version 1.0.24 is fully functional and modifiable and compilable.
Great thread about the VDS1022 !!!


PS: Gyro, my oscilloscope has the inscription "VDS1022I" on the case.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 21, 2019, 05:50:57 pm
Hello crai,

Welcome to the forum, and especially to this thread! :)   Please don't be concerned about your English, it's very good.

You've clearly uncovered some very useful information, pretty good for a mere 2 weeks ownership! It sounds as if you are fluent in Java.

I've never noticed the pulse width trigger issue, although I can't remember using it (surprisingly) - but it seems that others haven't either, as I don't remember seeing it flagged.

The lack of keep-alive packets prior to V1.0.29* would certainly explain the issue that indman saw (and why copying the foundation file from V1.0.27 29* fixed it), I don't know if the need for this is OS or hardware related, as, again, it doesn't appear to issue for many people - although clearly common enough for Owon to have needed to release an update for it.

I've never come across V1.0.24, it's certainly not in my archive (hence camomille using 1.0.23) . Does this include sources too? I would certainly appreciate a link, if only for completeness reasons. It would be the latest version with sources available (unless a 1.0.25 or 26) were ever made public) if so.

Interesting that Owon have now seen fit to introduce an 'I' version to the case silkscreen, it certainly makes sense once the volume is there. I don't know when that happened (clearly after I bought mine). I suspect that most ebay sellers are still using stock photos.

Thanks again for joining us and bringing so much useful information. Time to think about a new features wishlist.  ;)


Edit: *USB Heartbeat almost certainly added at V1.0.27
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 21, 2019, 06:04:52 pm
I think that this OWON VDS1022 (I) model was very successful in the segment of inexpensive USB scope. It 's just not as popular and known in people as Instrustar/Hantek. The more VDS1022 owners appear in this topic, the more useful information we can gather and improve this product together. ;)
I noticed another problem in the mathematical channel that is present in all versions of the shell, including 1.0.30. The selected range value (for example,5V) is not saved when the program is reloaded. There is also no preservation of this meaning if you remove the bird from the function of mathematics and put it again.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 21, 2019, 06:45:10 pm
I was just trying to update my version changes list...

It looks as if the USB heartbeat was maybe first introduced in V1.0.27 (this is the version that you took your library file from to fix your pause issue, indman?).

I was wondering if this could be related to the change of FPGA firmware from V3.5 to V3.7, but this happened at V1.0.28.

It's at moments like this, when new information becomes available, that I really wish that Owon knew how to write release notes!  |O
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 21, 2019, 06:56:46 pm
It looks as if the USB heartbeat was maybe first introduced in V1.0.27 (this is the version that you took your library file from to fix your pause issue, indman?).
Yes,V1.0.27. I 'm glad the crai confirmed the shell problem with the Pause button. I thought it was only on my scope.
But, in the portable version of the shell I introduced earlier, I used a library from V1.0.30
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: crai on November 21, 2019, 07:27:00 pm
Hi Gyro, thanks for the reply.
Version 1.0.24 contains the source code and I downloaded it from the Peaktech site (peaktech.de), whose 1290 model is the Owon VDS1022 (rebranded). (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html))
The only difference in Peaktech software with that of Owon is the logo and configuration files uppersoft.dso.prefs.default.ini that contain the texts and url of the About window. I overwritten these files with those of Owon.
I have not got an original version 1.0.23, the ones I have are modified. Comparing them with 1.0.24 it seems that the changes are minimal (most seem to be changes made by third parties to the version 1.0.23 that I got). If you know of a link to an original version 1.0.23 available to download, I would like to indicate it, so I can compare it with 1.0.24.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 21, 2019, 08:03:51 pm
I do not recall whether this useful resource, which also has modified versions of the shell, was mentioned VDS1022  :)
https://github.com/florentbr/Owon-VDS1022
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 21, 2019, 08:04:32 pm
Hi Gyro, thanks for the reply.
Version 1.0.24 contains the source code and I downloaded it from the Peaktech site (peaktech.de), whose 1290 model is the Owon VDS1022 (rebranded). (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html))
The only difference in Peaktech software with that of Owon is the logo and configuration files uppersoft.dso.prefs.default.ini that contain the texts and url of the About window. I overwritten these files with those of Owon.
I have not got an original version 1.0.23, the ones I have are modified. Comparing them with 1.0.24 it seems that the changes are minimal (most seem to be changes made by third parties to the version 1.0.23 that I got). If you know of a link to an original version 1.0.23 available to download, I would like to indicate it, so I can compare it with 1.0.24.

It's a confusing world. :palm:  I had no idea that the Peaktech was an Owon rebrand!

Yes sure, I have uploaded my archive of all original Owon versions in captivity to  https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5 (https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5) (use the free download button, valid for 30 days).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 21, 2019, 08:10:51 pm
I do not recall whether this useful resource, which also has modified versions of the shell, was mentioned VDS1022  :)
https://github.com/florentbr/Owon-VDS1022

A working native linux version? I didn't realize anyone had fixed the FPGA image download problem. That's good news.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: crai on November 21, 2019, 09:33:00 pm
Thank you very much Gyro for the full repository of installers.
Comparing the source codes of version 1.0.23 and 1.0.24 are practically the same. Only in method wrPos0 of class com.owon.uppersoft.vds.source.comm.Submitor2.java
add 3 lines of code that seem to adapt the V/div scale automatically in some situation.
      if (pos0 > 225 || pos0 < -225) {
         v = v + 1;
      }

Thanks again
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: common_ground on November 21, 2019, 10:11:57 pm
I do not recall whether this useful resource, which also has modified versions of the shell, was mentioned VDS1022  :)
https://github.com/florentbr/Owon-VDS1022

Native linux version :-+. Just tried on Mint Linux 19.1 and it work. :clap:
Excellent finding indman and many thanks to florentbr.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 22, 2019, 01:54:33 pm
Hi!
I really like the additions florentbr has made, especially the new hotkeys are convenient. You can see that he did a lot of work to improve the shell.
I will try to combine all the tips that are collected in this topic into one archive. :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: topol on November 24, 2019, 09:50:42 am
I tested USB isolator based on ADUM4160 with VDS1022I.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909293430.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4a6d73d0WWRYdv&algo_pvid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d&algo_expid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d-1&btsid=cc875904-9ad3-45a3-b688-a786dd8d88a9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_55 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909293430.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4a6d73d0WWRYdv&algo_pvid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d&algo_expid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d-1&btsid=cc875904-9ad3-45a3-b688-a786dd8d88a9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_55)

This design allows external power supply of the oscilloscope from the power bank and saves the notebook battery. You need to use high quality and short USB cables. When used as an insulator it is necessary to place the power bank together with the module in an insulated box.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 26, 2019, 09:47:27 pm
@indman:

Sorry to report a minor bug in your portable s/w version, that you linked in reply#450.  :(

In playing around, I noticed that with the probes shorted and sensitivity set to 5mV/div (Probe x1 setting), the CH1 trace had virtually no noise compared to CH2. By tying the probes together, I found that instead of 5mV/div it is actually selecting 500mV/div. This is duplicated on the other probe multiplier settings (eg. 5V instead of 50mV on probe X10 etc.).


One other thing I noticed is that I was getting voltage offsets at zero signal on various ranges, which I hadn't seen previously - even after Factory Reset and Self Cal. Then I remembered you saying that you had manually tuned your scope for maximum accuracy on voltage readings....

After some experimenting, I found that both \flash_text\flashmemory.txt  and \configuration\com.owon.uppersoft.dso\pref.properties seem to be involved in storage of calibration data. Copying both files from my previous (camomille) installation restored the zero offsets.

I am not surprised that your portable snapshot would contain calibration data for your specific unit, what did surprise me is that Factory Reset and Self Cal didn't completely resolve it - curious. The good thing is that these two files appear to hold all of the relevant calibration data - I don't think anything gets stored in Flash on the unit.

I am still trying to figure out the difference between the 'Zero Amplitude' and [EDIT: 'Zero Offset' 'Zero Compensation'] tabs in the calibration screen. I suspect that one is for AC coupled and the other for DC but haven't established that yet.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 26, 2019, 10:23:55 pm
I tested USB isolator based on ADUM4160 with VDS1022I.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909293430.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4a6d73d0WWRYdv&algo_pvid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d&algo_expid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d-1&btsid=cc875904-9ad3-45a3-b688-a786dd8d88a9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_55 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909293430.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4a6d73d0WWRYdv&algo_pvid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d&algo_expid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d-1&btsid=cc875904-9ad3-45a3-b688-a786dd8d88a9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_55)

This design allows external power supply of the oscilloscope from the power bank and saves the notebook battery. You need to use high quality and short USB cables. When used as an insulator it is necessary to place the power bank together with the module in an insulated box.

Welcome to the forum topol,

A good idea, as most cheap USB isolators don't have enough DC-DC converter wattage. It also allows you the opportunity to feed a quieter supply to the scope (although the supplies are well regulated).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on November 27, 2019, 07:50:40 am
@indman:
Sorry to report a minor bug in your portable s/w version, that you linked in reply#450.
After some experimenting, I found that both \flash_text\flashmemory.txt  and \configuration\com.owon.uppersoft.dso\pref.properties seem to be involved in storage of calibration data. Copying both files from my previous (camomille) installation restored the zero offsets.

I am not surprised that your portable snapshot would contain calibration data for your specific unit, what did surprise me is that Factory Reset and Self Cal didn't completely resolve it - curious. The good thing is that these two files appear to hold all of the relevant calibration data - I don't think anything gets stored in Flash on the unit.


Gyro ,Thank you for the useful information. I am also surprised that selfcalibration and return to factory reset  failed to return the original installations for scope.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on November 30, 2019, 10:01:04 pm
@indman:

Sorry to report a minor bug in your portable s/w version, that you linked in reply#450.  :(

In playing around, I noticed that with the probes shorted and sensitivity set to 5mV/div (Probe x1 setting), the CH1 trace had virtually no noise compared to CH2. By tying the probes together, I found that instead of 5mV/div it is actually selecting 500mV/div. This is duplicated on the other probe multiplier settings (eg. 5V instead of 50mV on probe X10 etc.).
... rest of quote deleted by me for clarity

This has animated me to follow up on this and to take some screenshots.
This bug you are talking about - I seem to have always had, no matter which software version. I didn't realise this at first as a rookie.
I thought it was the probes or a slightly skewed input channel in the oscilloscope.

Swapping the probes doesn't change anything. It is definitely just CH2.

The traces are in 5 second persistance mode. It is much easier to see that way. CH1 is set at 1div and CH2 at 0div.
Hope this helps in some way. If any "experiments" with the oscilloscope are needed, throw 'em at me, I'm in the mood ...

Ah, yes, nearly forgot the pics.

Cheers!



Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on November 30, 2019, 10:32:19 pm
Curious.

No I don't think the bug has always been there - see the screenshots that I posted back in 2015 (Hey this thread is useful  :D) in reply #2 and #3, I also had measurements turned on...  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg739874/#msg739874 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg739874/#msg739874)

I forgot to note which version I was running back then but I'd lay odds that it was V1.0.23 or earlier.

Time for some version investigation again. Luckily I have them all (as do camomille and indman now.)  ;)


EDIT: I'm confused now, I've just been back to V1.0.4 and am still seeing it. It's got me wondering if something has got modified in the hardware configuration!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on December 01, 2019, 12:45:30 am
Hi Gyro, thanks for the reply.
Version 1.0.24 contains the source code and I downloaded it from the Peaktech site (peaktech.de), whose 1290 model is the Owon VDS1022 (rebranded). (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html))
The only difference in Peaktech software with that of Owon is the logo and configuration files uppersoft.dso.prefs.default.ini that contain the texts and url of the About window. I overwritten these files with those of Owon.
I have not got an original version 1.0.23, the ones I have are modified. Comparing them with 1.0.24 it seems that the changes are minimal (most seem to be changes made by third parties to the version 1.0.23 that I got). If you know of a link to an original version 1.0.23 available to download, I would like to indicate it, so I can compare it with 1.0.24.

It's a confusing world. :palm:  I had no idea that the Peaktech was an Owon rebrand!

Yes sure, I have uploaded my archive of all original Owon versions in captivity to  https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5 (https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5) (use the free download button, valid for 30 days).

I just looked at the specifications of the Peaktech1290. The vertical sensitivity appears to be better.
2mV/div as compared to 5mV/div for the OWON. A typo maybe, cheeky marketing ...?
This has me wondering if it is real. I would like some more sensitivity on my VDS1022 ...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on December 01, 2019, 12:58:57 am
Curious.

No I don't think the bug has always been there - see the screenshots that I posted back in 2015 (Hey this thread is useful  :D) in reply #2 and #3, I also had measurements turned on...  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg739874/#msg739874 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg739874/#msg739874)

I forgot to note which version I was running back then but I'd lay odds that it was V1.0.23 or earlier.

Time for some version investigation again. Luckily I have them all (as do camomille and indman now.)  ;)


EDIT: I'm confused now, I've just been back to V1.0.4 and am still seeing it. It's got me wondering if something has got modified in the hardware configuration!

Uh oh, hope I didn't start a wild goose chase. The screenshots from my previous post are from the GYRO special as I call it now. Thats the version 1.0.23 you made with colorful icons and the button for easy saving of screenshots. I really love it! Thank you for making it.

I just installed version 1.0.29 and made a screenshot again with no probes attached. Also a new screenshot of GYRO special v1.0.23
also without probes. The infinite persistance mode does not seem to work, pixels keep disappearing. Seems more like 5 second mode.

I originally started with version 1.0.26 which was on the CD I received with the scope.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 01, 2019, 02:39:46 pm
Right, I've got a handle on it now (I think). The bug got fixed in V1.0.29...  V1.0.28 shows the wrong Ch1 5mV scaling factor, V1.0.29 and V1.0.30 do it correctly.

Phew, I was beginning to think that something in my scope was permanently screwed there!   :phew:

Given that @indman took his libraries from V1.0.30 to go with the modified V1.0.23, the error must be in the main code. @camomille would have automatically had the bug because he worked from the V1.0.23 sources.

Another one for my 'Owon substitute changelog'.  |O

If you want my previous versions archive, it is still active and looks as if it has about 20 days still to run: https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5 (https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5). Please feel free to double check me.


P.S. Once you have installed once (drivers), you don't need to keep re-installing each version - you can just unzip (7zip works) each OWON_VDS_C2_1.0.xx_Setup.exe into a separate folder and run it from there.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on December 01, 2019, 04:55:22 pm
P.S. Once you have installed once (drivers), you don't need to keep re-installing each version - you can just unzip (7zip works) each OWON_VDS_C2_1.0.xx_Setup.exe into a separate folder and run it from there.
Yes, you are right - there is no need to install a fresh version every time. It is essentially portable if USB drivers are already installed. I tracked on a clean computer what keys this program puts on the register. It leaves nothing essential on the register. I attached the screenshot below. So does the question remain who was the ancestor of this shell - OWON or PeakTech?
I am now using a version from florentbr(base v1.0.30) with additions that have already been discussed here. I also wrote a letter to florentbr thanking him and invited him to take part in this topic. But I haven 't received a response from him yet.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 01, 2019, 05:55:48 pm
So does the question remain who was the ancestor of this shell - OWON or PeakTech?
Good question - OWON are certainly the OEM for the Hardware (I think Peaktech is a rebrand) but as for the original stack....  I still wonder where the Uppersoft reference comes from in the folder tree?*

Quote
I am now using a version from florentbr(base v1.0.30) with additions that have already been discussed here. I also wrote a letter to florentbr thanking him and invited him to take part in this topic. But I haven 't received a response from him yet.

Good idea, he seems to have put a lot of work in on it... and having a working linux version! :-+   I'm having trouble installing on win7 64bit though, the script doesn't work for me. I have Java V8 installed but it doesn't seem to see it and its attempt to download it fails.

I suspect that the Ch1 5mV bug on V1.0.28 and lower is probably a simple typo but probably beyond my skills.


EDIT: * Owon certainly have the capability of modifying the s/w (doesn't everyone these days? ;D), they fixed a bug for me on one of the early versions, but they took their time about it and had to send me a couple of test versions before it was fixed and they have been somewhat accident prone over the various versions.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on December 01, 2019, 06:28:14 pm
I'm having trouble installing on win7 64bit though, the script doesn't work for me. I have Java V8 installed but it doesn't seem to see it and its attempt to download it fails.
Yes, the script of installing the version on the Win7x64 at me also did not work correctly. He told me about an error creating a shell start shortcut. So I made it easier - opened install-win.cmd and looked at the conditions that are needed to create this shortcut.
It has such a long text on my computer:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre1.8.0_111\bin\javaw.exe" -Djava.library.path="C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\OwonVdsTiny\lib" -Duser.dir="C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\OwonVdsTiny\etc" -cp "C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\OwonVdsTiny\jar\*" "com.owon.vds.tiny.Main"
After creating such a shortcut, the program starts normally. ;)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 01, 2019, 10:48:16 pm
@indman:

Thanks, I finally got it working. For some reason I had to install the 64bit version of Java too before the script would recognize that it was installed!

Like you, I had to manually create the shortcut - it works both with the x86 version of Java and the 64 bit. It all took a while - I am not as quick on the uptake as I used to be!

Unfortunately this version misses the one function that started the discussion with camomille (a few pages back) and prompted his interest in learning and modifying the Java code - that was making the save button on the main screen save a graphic image file, rather than a text file.   :D
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on December 02, 2019, 06:12:39 am
Unfortunately this version misses the one function that started the discussion with camomille (a few pages back) and prompted his interest in learning and modifying the Java code - that was making the save button on the main screen save a graphic image file, rather than a text file.   :D
This is easily added(compilation is unnecessary) after the respected camomille explained everything in Reply # 449
Replace files in owon-vds-tiny-1.0.30-cf6.jar archive with files in camomille archive:
1. Owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\pane\function\UtilityPane
2. Owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\sub\ButtonPane (including all files with this name)
Also in the version from florentbr this function is conveniently called via Ctrl+S
Just as easily now you can put any header in the name of the shell. And also change the color of the beam in Channel 1 to green - I like it most.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 02, 2019, 07:16:50 am
Hello everyone,

I am attentively your discussion around the problem CH1, later I will look for why this shift of step.
If I understood correctly, when the 2 channels are on the same value displayed on the selector, channel 1 is shifted by 2 steps in real amplitude.
example:
CH1 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 500mV / div
CH2 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 5mV / div
is it this ?

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 02, 2019, 09:15:37 am
I can not see the problem of CH1
my settings for the 2 channels:
AC 5 mV X1 probes X1
screenshot X25
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 02, 2019, 11:37:05 am
Hello everyone,

I am attentively your discussion around the problem CH1, later I will look for why this shift of step.
If I understood correctly, when the 2 channels are on the same value displayed on the selector, channel 1 is shifted by 2 steps in real amplitude.
example:
CH1 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 500mV / div
CH2 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 5mV / div
is it this ?

Alain

Hi Alain,

Thanks for chiming in. Yes, that's what seems to be happening. I'd never noticed it (I guess I've never used the bottom range) until Nullarbor raised it. The problem does seem to happen with V1.0.28 or before.

I can not see the problem of CH1
my settings for the 2 channels:
AC 5 mV X1 probes X1

Strange, I'll do some more testing but the behaviour does seem consistent. The best way I've found of showing it is to clip the two probe tips together and allow a little mains hum, approaching the tips with a finger if necessary. Then overlaying the traces.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 02, 2019, 11:53:17 am
@Gyro

That's what I did in the middle screenshot of the image above.
A clarification, I do not have the isolated version.
If I can not highlight it, I can not search. |O

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 02, 2019, 12:14:21 pm
Ah ok, I read it as probes disconnected, probes shorted and GND - what I meant was probe tips Ch0 and Ch1 clipped together, ground clips disconnected.

The GND setting just does a flat line in s/w by the way.

EDIT: Screenshots for 5mV and 10mV added...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 02, 2019, 12:28:44 pm
always screenshot X25
I do not see any problem !!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 02, 2019, 12:41:19 pm
same conditions as you
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 02, 2019, 12:43:25 pm
Very confused!  :-//

I clearly need to investigate.

EDIT: I wonder if it's a H/W version thing. Or a fault developed on my and Nullarbor's scopes?


EDIT1:  What can I say guys, I seem to have got into the situation where ONLY Owon original V1.0.29 and V1.0.30 produce the correct scaling on Ch1 5mV. Neither camomille versions (original or portable), indman's composite 1.0.23 with V1.0.30 libraries, or even florentbr scale correctly for me. The behaviour is 100% consistent, switching between versions without disconnecting the scope or factory reset. Even going from Original V1.0.28 to V1.0.29 and back is consistent both ways. I am totally lost! :palm:
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on December 02, 2019, 02:57:43 pm
Gyro, сan you show us the calibration window 5mV by pressing Ctrl+L on version 1.0.23 and version 1.0.30?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 02, 2019, 05:17:46 pm
@indman:

Thanks very much, you cracked it! No need for screenshots - in every non-working case, Ch1 5mV Coarse Gain is set to all zeros. In working versions, it is set to a sensible value - within a couple of digits of Ch2.  :-+   [EDIT: Changing the gain to a sensible value restores the sensible trace, confirmed]

I'm not sure how it has happened, or maybe worked its way across versions that I thought were ok. The V1.0.28 and V1.0.29 were fresh unpacks of the Owon Setup.exe's, but it is clearly the reason for what I've been seeing!

Many thanks - my brain was so fogged that I needed a quick sleep. I didn't even think of checking that the cal data was sensible.


P.S. I am wondering if the factory default cals maybe get stored in Flash in the ARM processor in each unit, that might possibly explain a 'cross contamination'. Maybe autoset has a fine tuning effect based on those settings, I don't know though.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 02, 2019, 05:45:44 pm
Follow-up:

I think we maybe don't fully understand how calibration settings work. Once I changed the Ch1 5mV settings and saved - right most button,  it is also works with Alain's and your versions, even after unplugging and changing USB ports! [EDIT: and previous Owon versions too]

Strangely the florentbr version still shown incorrect Ch1 5mV.  :-\

A few tentative conclusions:

- The calibration data is stored in some non-volatile place. This could either be in Flash on the unit (which seems likely to me as Owon would want to do a basic cal on each unit during test), or some global (registry?) setting on the system. From the registry dump that you did yesterday, I don't see that this is possible.

- Assuming the above is correct, the florentbr version is not interrogating the unit to get factory setting and is maybe holding them somewhere else?

- Owon V1.0.29 - V1.0.30 are handling calibration data in a different way to previous versions ? ??

Still a little confused about the above thoughts.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on December 02, 2019, 06:19:14 pm
Strangely the florentbr version still shown incorrect Ch1 5mV.  :-\
- Assuming the above is correct, the florentbr version is not interrogating the unit to get factory setting and is maybe holding them somewhere else?

Gyro, Is it possible that the explanations in the readme.md file from the florentbr can make a hint?
* moved calibration to user folder
* moved settings to user folder
* moved preferences to user folder
It would be very useful to understand correctly the purpose of the process of maintaining calibration settings.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 02, 2019, 06:21:42 pm
@Gyro

If it helps you, I attach my original file Flashmemory.txt

https://ufile.io/2lajynvg

I think that if the flashmemory.txt file does not exist in the flash_txt folder, the VDS1022 must launch an "auto_self_cal" on startup.
or in Utility, you can launch a "Self Cal"

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 02, 2019, 07:03:07 pm
@Gyro

If it helps you, I attach my original file Flashmemory.txt

https://ufile.io/2lajynvg

I think that if the flashmemory.txt file does not exist in the flash_txt folder, the VDS1022 must launch an "auto_self_cal" on startup.

Alain

Thanks Alain. I've downloaded the file, but suspect that it is related to your specific unit (hint, keep a backup of it). I was able to use the gain value I saw in V1.0.29 to set it for the other versions.


Strangely the florentbr version still shown incorrect Ch1 5mV.  :-\
- Assuming the above is correct, the florentbr version is not interrogating the unit to get factory setting and is maybe holding them somewhere else?

Gyro, Is it possible that the explanations in the readme.md file from the florentbr can make a hint?
* moved calibration to user folder
* moved settings to user folder
* moved preferences to user folder
It would be very useful to understand correctly the purpose of the process of maintaining calibration settings.

Interesting, yes there do seem to be multiple files involved in the calibration data. As I mentioned back in Reply #468, I have previously seen some new and unexpected zero offsets that I hadn't seen before. Looking at file dates, it was apparent that both  '\flash_text\flashmemory.txt'  and '\configuration\com.owon.uppersoft.dso\pref.properties' appeared to be involved, I needed to copy both of those from my previous version to get the offsets looking normal again (they could of course also be trimmed in the cal menu).

From Alain's translation of the calibration screen, it is clear that there are buttons to save to flashmemory.txt only, or write to the device (scope) and Factory settings. What doesn't seem clear is if/when the flashmemory.txt and device data get exchanged or overwritten.

Without fully understanding this I suspect that there may be a danger of accidentally 'infecting' each other with our own scope calibrations!  :D


P.S. Sorry to you both for your time taken in searching for a non-existent bug!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 02, 2019, 07:40:45 pm
in Utility, you can launch a "Self Cal"
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 02, 2019, 07:53:17 pm
Yes, I know (there is the centre 'Calibration' button for it in the calibration screen too, that does the same thing). From my experience with the zero offsets that I mentioned earlier though, it doesn't seem to do a full accurate cal - I think it is based on the saved factory parameters (I tried both self-cal and factory reset). The zero line result isn't optimal afterwards anyway.

It's not a big issue to calibrate it anyway (Indman did it) - it's only an 8 bit scope (like most) so it's never going to have DMM type accuracy. Even on the highest range, it's only 5V/div (X1) so no high voltages are needed. I'm still a little confused about the difference between 'Zero Amplitude' and 'Zero Compensation' they seem to have the same effect but one is maybe ADC zero and the other input opamps offset for best linearity. I need to have a play.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 03, 2019, 09:48:53 am
To help a little, I tried to follow the actions of "Gain", "Amplitude" and "Compensation" but without success.
What I learned is that "zeroamplitude" in the program changes its name and is called "Step" (as in flashmemory.txt.
If it can be useful
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 03, 2019, 11:45:32 am
Thanks Alain, yes "step" sounds useful. It could be that Zero Amplitude, in conjunction with Coarse Gain can be used to optimize the ADC scaling (eg. as close to 1 bit per mV as possible) and the Zero Compensation is then used to bring the line to zero.

We'll learn all there is to know one day!  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 03, 2019, 11:59:35 am
By analyzing the diagrams of the circuits (analog side),
 there are few possibilities of programming of these circuits,
I see only the 2 reference voltages of the AD9288 and the gain and the offset on the 2 AD603.
I think it corresponds to our 3 programmable voltages.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 03, 2019, 01:41:44 pm
Good first interpretation.

Looking at my unit, the AD9288 RREFinA and REFinB are tied to REFout (pins 5,7,6), that makes sense as it's the most accurate reference source available.

With those two references fixed, I think that all three programmable values relate to the two AD603s. Checking around the AD603s, Pin 2 (GNEG - negative voltage increases gain) on both channels are linked together and decoupled to ground - these must be connected to a bias network somewhere (I didn't fully trace it out) and so I don't think they are involved in calibrations (there is no common cal setting for both channels).

Pin 1 (GPOS - positive voltage increases gain) of each AD603 is connect to an RC network, which in turn is fed by one half of an SGM8292 dual high voltage rail to rail opamp, on my unit, on the back of the board, near the ARM CPU. These form gain networks which are then driven by PB0.5 and PB0.7 port pins on the CPU. I Suspect that these are controlling the AD603 gain pin levels using PWM (the alternate functions listed on PB0.5 and .7 list ADC but not DAC).

I think this brings us back to the Firmware controlling gain and, zero and offset via those two pins, doing the appropriate compensations in code. Coarse Gain is fairly self-evident. I suspect that Zero Amplitude and Zero Compensation work together, to give both zero, and equal measurements / deflection for equal positive and negative voltages.

That's my best guess anyway.

(My earlier thoughts about Zero Compensation compensating opamp offsets is probably wrong - they would only be relevant at low signal levels (Zero Compensation exists on all ranges) and would be automatically included anyway in the the Zero adjustments provided).

Other interpretations very welcome!


P.S. I noticed in the AD9288 datasheet that a 10 bit pin compatible upgrade is available. That could be fun if we had full control of the Firmware and FPGA code. :) Alas...
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 03, 2019, 02:55:07 pm
I will analyze your deduction, in this area you are much faster than me, I started to make the schema on paper around the AD603.
I made a discovery, the circuit "8061" (AD8061 / 8063) can isolate each channel by pin 5.
FPGA is just a logical matrix, but to decode it is another story.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 03, 2019, 04:00:09 pm
For me, it is the outputs of the 2 DAC (IDAC0 / IDAC1) that go to SGM8272, respectively PB0.10 pin 47 and PB0.11 pin 48 of the 64 Pin TQFP SIM3U1xx .
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 03, 2019, 06:30:09 pm
 :palm: Doh, yes, of course, you're right - I was looking at the 80QFN datasheet footprint, I was too busy balancing the board vertically while probing both sides!  Yes, IDAC0/1 it is then. It makes a lot more more sense than PWM.

I have to take the screws out again later to check the AD8061s. According to my old photo they are indeed marked 8061 and according to the datasheet, only the 8063 has the disable pin.

I am still wondering the about the 'mechanics' of the 'Self Cal' operation. Whether it is an offset cancellation (I think what Tek call 'signal path compensation') or whether it is gain too. I suspect that some of the secrets are hidden under the shield.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 03, 2019, 06:36:45 pm
But you too are right because there is a second SGM8272 underneath and he is attacked by logical outputs.
I just changed the image above.

it is good 8061 but surely a manufacturer with the box of 8063
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 03, 2019, 07:40:18 pm
Ah, good - it's always nice to be a little bit right.

The AD8061s are definitely 8061 on my board revision - SOT23-5 pin package, not SOT23-6 (8063), so lacking enable.

I'd never paid any attention to the SGM8272 on the top side, from its position I think I assumed that it was PSU related. Following the outputs leads me to the two LMH6551 differential output opamps which are the stages between the AD603s and the AD9288 ADC. On my board they go to a large tacked-on Tantalum decoupling capacitor before going to the bias network on the LMH6551 Pin 1 (input -). This looks to be in non-inverting configuration, so it must be an offset adjustment for the LMH6551. [EDIT: Vcm (common mode input) of the LMH6551s are driven from the ADC Vref Out, as Fig. 33 in the datasheet (Driving an ADC)]

I suppose this makes sense because by the time the signal has reached the LMH6551 it has already been scaled to a fixed range by the AD603, input attenuator relays etc. so will work as a range independent offset adjustment going into the ADC (but still adjustable on a range by range basis).

Ok, so now we have the Coarse gain adjustment (PWM?) driven into the AD603s from PB0.0 / PB0.2 via the bottom SGM and offset adjustment at the LMH6551s driven from PB0.10 / PB0.11 (10 bit IDAC?) via the top SGM. It's making sense.

EDIT: The picture of my board revision (from Reply #12), showing the tacked-on Tants...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/?action=dlattach;attach=168295;image)

P.S. I suspect that your board doesn't have the U29 footprint - an interesting evolutionary relic!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 03, 2019, 08:10:46 pm
One more thought... The s/w will normally expect the ADC exactly half scale code to be Analogue zero. I wonder if a change in what it expects here could be regarded as a 'Zero Amplitude' adjustment?

EDIT: No, too many digits. I was forgetting it's only 8 bits.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 04, 2019, 06:51:58 am
Just a small precision before attacking the day, the DACs are 10 bits current output (0.5, 1, 2 ma) .
The circuits marked "YJAA" are SGM2019A.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 04, 2019, 01:16:59 pm
Yes, lots of nice local regulation on the analogue supplies.

I've just been doing some quick measurements and found that both Zero Amplitude and Zero Compensation affect the IDAC outputs to the LMH6551s. I was hoping that it would be just one or the other.

As expected, the Coarse Gain adjustment changes the GPOS gain adjustment pins of the AD603s.


P.S. I still wonder how it performs the Self-Cal. Watching the screen, it seems to adjust  the zero positions of both traces at the centre of the screen, and then do the same again at some positive displacement on the screen. It could be that somewhere (under the screening can?) it switches in a positive reference, tapped of an analogue supply so that it can determine what offsets there are in the system.

Alternatively, it might be offsetting by changing the Zero Amplitude setting and then optimising the Zero Offset setting at two positions. I'm not sure why it would do this (apart from maybe optimising ADC linearity?). With a 10 bit IDAC it should be possible to set the zero offset of an 8 bit ADC quite closely.

I can't see any way of Self-Cal setting the Coarse Gain. It would either need a separate reference or feed back of the ADC ref. I think this is a manual cal only.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 04, 2019, 02:38:55 pm
You have a separate reference in SIM3U156 :

PB0.8 pin 49 VREFGROUND
PB0.9 pin 48 VREF
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 04, 2019, 05:43:20 pm
As far as I can see, the SIM3U156 VREF is used as a common mode reference node for the top side SGM8292, which is effectively being used as an I/V converter for the offset adjustments.

They've been careful to take the SGM8292 supply rails from the analogue regulators at the front of the board.

Actually, they may well be using the SIM3U156 VREF indirectly as a calibration source for the ADC... As it is the reference for the IDACs, they can feed a known offset voltage to the LMH6551s and read back the resulting ADC reading. That will allow closed loop calibration of the ADC (and LMH6551 offsets).

I can't see how they can go past that though (to the AD603 gain calibrations) other than to null their offsets by assuming 0V inputs (probes disconnected). There are relay clicks during self-cal, I don't know how many relays there are under the shield, but there must be at least two per channel, one for AC/DC coupling and one for the higher voltage ranges, maybe there's another shorting one.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 04, 2019, 06:35:12 pm
I think it's the same model (NEC) as in the 4 channels.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 04, 2019, 06:41:58 pm
Ah, only one per channel on that one, presumably AC/DC coupling. It's not the same circuit as the VDS1022 though - it's missing the trimmer caps near the rear of the shields.

At some point, curiosity is going to persuade me to desolder the shield but I'm trying to resist!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 04, 2019, 07:03:38 pm
Surely this model double coils latch.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 04, 2019, 07:12:12 pm
Yes, it is a double pole changeover (DPDT), the two contacts are mechanically linked. It uses two coils (bistable) so is stable in both states. It minimises current draw and power dissipation. A good thing to do when USB powered.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 05, 2019, 12:23:20 pm
My contribution to enlighten this subject
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on December 05, 2019, 01:49:24 pm
I noticed another problem in the mathematical channel that is present in all versions of the shell, including 1.0.30. The selected range value (for example,5V) is not saved when the program is reloaded. There is also no preservation of this meaning if you remove the bird from the function of mathematics and put it again.
Can you confirm or deny this problem?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 05, 2019, 05:49:31 pm
My contribution to enlighten this subject

Nice reverse engineering, thanks.  :-+

I'm away from my unit for a few days.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: jemangedeslolos on December 17, 2019, 08:50:54 pm
Hello,

I bought a VDS3102 that I haven't received yet.
Do you know if the software is the same between the 1022 and the 3102 ?
I can't download the software from Owon, I don't know why.
It seems that most of their links are dead.

It is nice to be able to change the channel color. I will look more deeply when I received to scope.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 17, 2019, 09:30:15 pm
I'm not sure why you're having trouble downloading the s/w, it's on their support page (I just tried it) ... https://www.owon.com.hk/support_PC_Software_list3 (https://www.owon.com.hk/support_PC_Software_list3)

The best bet is normally to install the version that comes on the CD and then check if the site version is a later Rev.

No, the s/w is different between the two (although I'm sure they are closely related) - you can normally delve deeper by unzipping the installer exe file.


P.S. You can find the user manual in the support pages too.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 18, 2019, 07:59:45 am
A small gift for the Christmas holidays
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 18, 2019, 09:35:43 am
Hey Camomille, that's very useful - thank you!  :-+

It's the sort of thing I kept meaning to do, wished I had, but never got around to! I wondered how they implemented things like the multi Input/output.

Now to work out why my earlier version PCB uses a switcher for the -2.5V rather than an LM337 - they must have had some reason for changing it.

I will try to get around to lifting the shield and taking some photos sometime over Christmas.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: jemangedeslolos on December 18, 2019, 10:12:34 am
It seems that I tried only when the links were dead  :palm:
It is working great now, thank you  :)

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 18, 2019, 10:14:30 am
Hello Chris

It is between diagram and synoptics to understand the operation, I deliberately forgot the decoupling capacitors.
What I find interesting is the hc595 which serves as a serial / parallel interface between the cpu and the inputs (6 lines).
One might think that one of these lines isolates the inputs and authorizes a reference voltage for the auto calibration.
I also highlighted the FPGA series programming.
My model does not have circuits with a red cross.

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 18, 2019, 11:32:05 am
It seems that I tried only when the links were dead  :palm:
It is working great now, thank you  :)

Glad to hear it.  :)

Thinking overnight, there may not actually be many differences between the VDS1022 s/w and the 3102. After all, they both have the same user interface. Irrc, the 3102 uses USB2 High speed rather than full speed (the reason it doesn't have a galvanic isolation option) so there will be differences in the device driver etc, and of course the FPGA firmware file will be different.

You may want to download the latest VDS1022 and the latest VDS1032 s/w, unzip the installer exe files to two separate folder trees (7zip works) and look for commonalities.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 18, 2019, 11:48:06 am
Hello Chris

It is between diagram and synoptics to understand the operation, I deliberately forgot the decoupling capacitors.
What I find interesting is the hc595 which serves as a serial / parallel interface between the cpu and the inputs (6 lines).
One might think that one of these lines isolates the inputs and authorizes a reference voltage for the auto calibration.
I also highlighted the FPGA series programming.
My model does not have circuits with a red cross.

Alain

Hi Alain,

It's fine - just what is needed to know what is going on.  :-+  It's useful to know which regulator is powering what. I had worked out that the Probe cal output was driven directly from 5V USB - it is a useful indication of excessive voltage drop on the cable before any other functionality is affected.

Mine still has the BA7046 sync separator, yes it's probable that they've moved the functionality into the FPGA, it's a less used function these days anyway.

Regarding the HC595 outputs - it will be interesting to know what is happening under the shield. I think we can be sure this splits down to 3 control lines per channel, I doubt there is any binary decode going on under the shield, so I think they will be switching 3 discrete items. One will clearly be the AC/DC coupling relay. I wouldn't be surprised if another one is switching an attenuator for the higher voltage ranges. As for the third, yes maybe a reference select, or maybe another attenuator? I will try to find out.

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 18, 2019, 12:06:34 pm
BA7046 is only NTSC.

small precision, no power goes under the shield, just the ground.

My opinion :
the 6 wires must directly attack 2 bistable relays per channel (AC / DC / GND) and (1V / 0.1V / 0.01V).

It is only a suggestion.

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 18, 2019, 12:22:28 pm
Quote
small precision, no power goes under the shield, just the ground.

Ah, that's interesting, I was thinking there might be another gain stage in there for low ranges. Also clamping to the rails.


P.S. I don't think the GND position is needed on the input coupling relay - the S/W takes the trace to a flat line when GND is selected.

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Mikle_JV on December 25, 2019, 06:12:59 am
Hi guys!
Thank you for your work. I installed the package on a Raspberry pi 4. It works!!
Here is my instruction :
( It certainly looks like dancing with a tambourine.  :rant:  But the Java code gives me the fear, pain and hatred. I hope that in the future it will be corrected by knowledgeable people. )
I installed on a clean system downloaded from the original site "Raspbian Buster with desktop". 
First, the standard:
Code: [Select]
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade

Then install Java and the necessary libraries:

Code: [Select]
sudo apt-get install openjdk-8-jre
sudo apt-get install libusb-1.0-0-dev
sudo apt-get install libusb-dev
sudo apt-get install libusb-java-lib
sudo apt-get install librxtx-java

Install OWON software on two options to choose from:
1)
Code: [Select]
git clone https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022.git2)
Code: [Select]
wget https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/archive/master.zip
unzip /home/pi/master.zip


Code: [Select]
cd /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master (If you used Git the folder will be OWON-VDS1022 , but I used Wget)
Now we knock on the tambourines:

Code: [Select]
mkdir lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libusb.so /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf/
cp /usr/lib/libusbJava.so.0.8 OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/libusb.so  /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/jni/librxtxSerial-2.2pre1.so /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
   
Edit the installation script in two places:
Code: [Select]
nano /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh

main () {

        local arch
        case "$(uname -m)" in
                x86_64|amd64) arch=x86_64  ;;
                i?86)         arch=i386    ;;
                arm*)         arch=armhf   ;; #!!!!!!!!!!!!
                *)            raise "Architecture not supported: $(uname -m)"  ;;
        esac


   
build-deb () {
        local arch=$1

#       PK_ARCH=${arch/x86_64/amd64}
        PK_ARCH=$arch   #!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Save and exit
Ctrl-X      

Next, change the attribute and run:      
Code: [Select]
sudo chmod +x /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh
sudo /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh

After installation we make symbolic links:
Code: [Select]
cd /usr/lib/owon-vds-tiny
sudo ln -s librxtxSerial-2.2pre1.so librxtxSerial.so
sudo ln -s libusbJava.so.0.8 libusbJava.so

Everything is ready now you can run
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 31, 2019, 08:09:11 am
Hi all,

Before this new year, I decided to open the sardine box (shield).

in 2020 the complete scheme.

I wish everyone a happy New Year.

Alain  :-+ :-+ :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 31, 2019, 10:56:03 am
Damn, you beat me to it - I was going to make it a New Year present to you!

From an initial look, U2 and U43, the LETEX L1210 parts appear to be opto relays for the AC/DC coupling switch, something like PhotoMOS. These bypass the AC input coupling capacitors, C48 and C20. The 330R resistors, R4 and R97 look right for driving an internal LED.

The relays then must be for switching a high level resistive||capacitive attenuator for the higher volts/div ranges, with capacitive compensation being adjustable by the two trimmer caps.

I can't find any web reference for either LETEX or LETEX L1210, so it is a part that it would be best not to blow up!

Thanks for doing this Alain, and a Happy New Year to you.  :-+

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 31, 2019, 11:01:42 am
Hi guys!
Thank you for your work. I installed the package on a Raspberry pi 4. It works!!
Here is my instruction :
( It certainly looks like dancing with a tambourine.  :rant:  But the Java code gives me the fear, pain and hatred. I hope that in the future it will be corrected by knowledgeable people. )
I installed on a clean system downloaded from the original site "Raspbian Buster with desktop". 
First, the standard:
Code: [Select]
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade

Then install Java and the necessary libraries:

Code: [Select]
sudo apt-get install openjdk-8-jre
sudo apt-get install libusb-1.0-0-dev
sudo apt-get install libusb-dev
sudo apt-get install libusb-java-lib
sudo apt-get install librxtx-java

Install OWON software on two options to choose from:
1)
Code: [Select]
git clone https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022.git2)
Code: [Select]
wget https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/archive/master.zip
unzip /home/pi/master.zip


Code: [Select]
cd /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master (If you used Git the folder will be OWON-VDS1022 , but I used Wget)
Now we knock on the tambourines:

Code: [Select]
mkdir lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libusb.so /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf/
cp /usr/lib/libusbJava.so.0.8 OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/libusb.so  /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/jni/librxtxSerial-2.2pre1.so /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
   
Edit the installation script in two places:
Code: [Select]
nano /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh

main () {

        local arch
        case "$(uname -m)" in
                x86_64|amd64) arch=x86_64  ;;
                i?86)         arch=i386    ;;
                arm*)         arch=armhf   ;; #!!!!!!!!!!!!
                *)            raise "Architecture not supported: $(uname -m)"  ;;
        esac


   
build-deb () {
        local arch=$1

#       PK_ARCH=${arch/x86_64/amd64}
        PK_ARCH=$arch   #!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Save and exit
Ctrl-X      

Next, change the attribute and run:      
Code: [Select]
sudo chmod +x /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh
sudo /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh

After installation we make symbolic links:
Code: [Select]
cd /usr/lib/owon-vds-tiny
sudo ln -s librxtxSerial-2.2pre1.so librxtxSerial.so
sudo ln -s libusbJava.so.0.8 libusbJava.so

Everything is ready now you can run

Hi Mikle_JV,

Welcome to the forum.  :)

Excellent work, I know that several people have ambitions for turning the scope into a truly portable device, and the Pi seems the best platform for doing this. Thanks for detailing so fully!  :-+

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 31, 2019, 11:31:29 am
Hello Chris,

It is not LETEX L1210 but LT210 (Photo DMOS-FET Relay) and it is good to use for short circuit the AC / DC input capacitor.

search  LT210.pdf

The NEXEM UD2 5SNU double inverter bistable relay simply switches a divider by 25 used in the 5/2/1 / 0.5 Volts positions.

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 31, 2019, 12:44:32 pm
Ah, that makes more sense, thanks, got it (I had too many disturbing latex hits before :-[)! It looks man enough for the job and decent isolation. Here's the link for anyone else interested... http://www.letex.com.tw/dow.php?type=pdf&file=.%2Fupload%2Fproduct%2FLT210%2Ffile1.pdf&serial=LT210 (http://www.letex.com.tw/dow.php?type=pdf&file=.%2Fupload%2Fproduct%2FLT210%2Ffile1.pdf&serial=LT210)

Divide by 25 then - you're ahead of me again!

Thanks,
Chris


P.S. The single coil bistable relay explains why there are 3 control lines (total) going to each channel.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on December 31, 2019, 01:08:58 pm
I discovered the division by 25 while having fun making this document.

I am waiting for the components to realize a full scale voltage tester 50v to 500mV and finalized.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on December 31, 2019, 02:19:21 pm
Wow, impressive!  :o
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on January 01, 2020, 08:20:54 am
Good morning all

I wish everyone a happy new year.

As promised, here is my latest version of the diagram.

Alain

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 01, 2020, 05:00:49 pm
A happy New Year to all.

Thanks very much Alain, an excellent piece of work! Filed  :-+

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on January 03, 2020, 10:55:18 am
Hello,

It seems that we can add the step 2 mV / div.

The modification consists in desoldering the pin 5 AD603 of the printed circuit and soldering a resistance of ~ 5K1 between this isolated pin and the pin 7 to modify the gain of the AD603 which will pass from 31.07dB to 45.05dB(it is provided in the datasheet).

This modification will force you to recalibrate (maybe only the flashmemory.txt file).

I will be testing in the coming weeks to confirm this theory.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on January 08, 2020, 04:46:57 pm
Hello,

florentbr has released a new version which corrects all requests:

https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022

But I'm a quiche because I can't install it to test it, do you have any advice ?  |O |O

under W10 no installation possible, under W7 installs without problem, but no launch possible

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on January 08, 2020, 05:49:42 pm
under W10 just decompress directly on the desktop and not in a folder.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 08, 2020, 05:52:35 pm
Hello,

florentbr has released a new version which corrects all requests:

https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022)

But I'm a quiche because I can't install it to test it, do you have any advice ?  |O |O

under W10 no installation possible, under W7 installs without problem, but no launch possible

Alain

Hi Alain,

I haven't tried florentbr's latest version but I had similar problems to you with what I assume was the previous one. indman's answer worked for me. I don't know if this is the same situation though.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg2810072/#msg2810072 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg2810072/#msg2810072)

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on January 08, 2020, 06:15:41 pm
Hello Chris,

I succeeded under W10, but under W7 impossible, despite your advice and that of Indman that I had read again, but it is less important.

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on January 26, 2020, 01:42:06 pm
Hi!
Florentbr has once again done a great job of improving the functionality of the program! I got the impression he was reading the topic. :)
I easily installed his latest version of cf9 on my computer with Windows7x64. But to do this, you must meet one condition - to install a specific JAVA8 package. I downloaded it at https://adoptopenjdk.net/ - OpenJDK8U -jdk _ x64 _ windows _ hotspot _ 8u242b08. After installing this package, the install-win.cmd script worked very quickly and without errors.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 26, 2020, 02:20:00 pm
Hi!
Florentbr has once again done a great job of improving the functionality of the program! I got the impression he was reading the topic. :)

He must be - he's pinched a couple of my menu button icons!  :P  (Not that I mind).

I just installed it too, no problems using OpenJDK8U on W7 64pro. It looks very nice at first try!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 28, 2020, 03:01:00 pm
I've had some time to play with Florentbr's s/w version. It seems very good.

The flexibility of colour choice is nice - the FFT trace and cursors too (the pink cursor measurement text always was a pain to see). A couple of points...

- It would be nice if the windows install script gave a choice of install location. I keep all my system stuff on an SSD C drive and most applications on the D drive. I tried hacking the script but ended up with it creating a second D:\Program files folder. That's just my total incompetence though.

- I've always questioned in my mind, the reason for having a 'Restore Factory Defaults' button on the main screen. It seems unnecessary. On Florentbr's version, this button also resets all of your carefully chosen colours!  :palm:  It would be nice just to loose the button, or replace it with something more useful - although I can't think what at the moment. The function is available in the Utility menu for the very rare cases where it might be needed.

- It would of course be nice if it had Alain's proposed 2mV/div range.  :D
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on January 28, 2020, 04:22:07 pm
Hi all,

sorry for my absence from the forum, but I had a cut in the fiber network for 2 weeks.  :--

Thanks to indman for the link, which allowed me to install the cf9 version on W7 and W10 without problem (the cf7 version had problems closing selectors). :-+

I advance on my calibrator, I still lack 1 resistance value for the 2mV/Div (20mV full scale) caliber and with Chinese problems I don't know when I will have it  ?  :-//

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 28, 2020, 08:12:39 pm
Thanks for the update Alain. You don't realize how much you rely on broadband until it breaks!

Chris

P.S. Florent's calibration comments shed light on the difference between the Zero Compensation and Zero Amplitude. One is for zeroing at mid point and the other to maintain zero tracking when the trace is moved vertically on the screen (makes sense). What doesn't make sense is why my CH2 isn't perfectly optimized by Autocal.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on January 29, 2020, 08:16:53 am
Hi Chris,

My goal is to better understand the action on the amplitude of the COARSEGAIN values (pwm to dc U26) and to know if we can improve the slope.

My idea is that thanks to my calibrator I can check the voltage at the output of the AD603 in full scale and on all games it must be fixed at 1.7V (2.048 / 12 * 10).

The STEP and ZERO voltage offsets are less important to me because the dac in SIM3U156 has great precision (not like rc of U26)

All this for fun.

Alain
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: camomille on January 29, 2020, 02:21:01 pm
I finished my full scale voltage calibrator for oscilloscope

Available voltages: 50/20/10/5/2/1 / 0.5 / 0.2 / 0.1 / 0.05 / 0.02 Volts

accuracy <1%

All for less than $ 4

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on January 30, 2020, 07:46:38 pm
Nice job.  :-+

Looking forward to seeing whether you can get useable accuracy and noise level at 2mV/div.

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: bhowden on February 01, 2020, 02:39:39 am
Hopefully this does not seem like I am trying to hyjack this thread.  This is a continuation of my thread on the main testgear forum.  Basically I have been trying to use single triggering on an OWON VDS 1022 DSO to test a quadrature encoder.  Quick summary is that I loaded Florentbr's replacement SW from git hub and all my troubles disappeared.  Single triggering now works exactly as it should.  My issue with both quadrature channels rising at the same time persists.  Also, if I turn the encoder backward, both channels fall at the same time followed by B rising followed by A rising. 

In the triggering menu there is a combo box that lets you set a delay time from a few ns up to seconds.  Can anybody explain what this is and how you would use it?

Brian
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 01, 2020, 02:15:20 pm
That's really good news Brian. I am away from home at the moment so I am only able to play with the florentbr sans scope but clearly from your results,  there is a significant improvement in single trigger.

With regard to the trigger holdoff.  This is normally used in repetitive triggering situations (Auto or Normal - I can't think of single trigger use case) to prevent the scope from triggering again within a certain period of time. This is helpful in obtaining a stable trace on 'awkward' signals where there is another transition that could also cause triggering, causing the visible display to 'jitter' between the two resulting views. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope#Holdoff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope#Holdoff) should give you a fuller explanation. The better analog scopes used to have it too.

I'm not sure about your encoder results, it's beginning to sound like a physical anomaly of the encoder itself, though it's difficult to see how the same thing could happen in both directions. Are you sure you have the pinout correct? - I'm just trying to imagine what it would look like if you had one of the outputs accidentally grounded instead of the wiper. Maybe you can post a datasheet link.

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: bhowden on February 01, 2020, 08:25:14 pm
I believe you might be onto something here!  I whipped up a quick arduino sketch to just poll as quickly as possible and record the states and times and sure enough, the sketch showed exactly what the scope was showing.  When I worked out the pin out I just used an ohm meter and did a continuity check looking for the common lead but with 5 seconds more thought I think you are correct and that was too simplistic a test.  At some point, A is probably feeding through ground to B and my test was probably fatally flawed.  They are just cheap Chinese encoders so I am not sure a data sheet is available but I will have a closer look.  Thanks again.

Brian
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: bhowden on February 01, 2020, 10:06:27 pm
Bingo!  Sure enough, I was not using the correct pin out (I did warn you it was probably a stupid mistake on my part).  There is no part number on the encoder but trial and error switching pins did come up with a combination that works properly.  The only bright side is I now know much more about the scope.  Thanks again for you help and patience.

Brian
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 02, 2020, 10:09:45 am
Glad you got it sorted Brian.  :-+

Anonymous encoder pinouts aren't the easiest thing to decode - at least we know what it looks like if you mistake an output for the wiper now. I tried to work it out in my head but didn't get past the 'everything will go off (high) at some point. Glad I could help anyway.

Chris
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: lotas on February 06, 2020, 12:46:40 pm
Hello! I found a new driver libusb-win32-bin v1.2.7.1 (09/18/2019)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ben23 on February 14, 2020, 10:01:16 am
Hi everyone. I joined this forum just to say a big thankyou to everyone who's contributed to this thread. I've read the whole thing (and now my head is spinning a bit) and it helped to cement my decision to get a VDS1022I. The fact that there is such an active community supporting the product and continuing to improve the software for it played a big part in that decision.

I do have one newbie question that I don't think has been answered in this thread so far. I've noticed that there are a few clones of the VDS out there now, that look identical in every way but lack the Owon logo on the case. I've ordered what should be a legitimate Owon just to be on the safe side. But it's got me thinking that I should at least check that I've been sent the Isolated version that I ordered, rather than just trusting the silkscreening on the case. To do so (without opening it), would I be correct in thinking that I just need to check with a meter that there isn't a dead short / low resistance between the outer part of the BNCs (or the ground clip of a probe connected to them) and any of the pins of the USB socket?

Thanks.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 14, 2020, 11:24:03 am
Hi Ben, welcome to the forum.

It is nice, particularly more recently, that the community has picked up from purely H/W analysis, to S/W enhancements too, Linux versions etc.

A good question, no I don't think it has been asked specifically before. Yes, a simple continuity test between the probe ground clips (or the ground tab adjacent to the cal output) and the USB connector (shell and ground contact) will be sufficient to confirm that it is an Isolated version. If you want a bit more certainty, you could add a few more volts, say, a 9V battery in series, but as the idea of the galvanic isolation is to break ground loops, rather than the dodgy practice of floating the scope at high voltages, there is no need to worry. The isolation components are rated for several hundred volts, so there's no risk involved in a simple continuity test.

As far as I can tell, they VDS1022 hasn't been "cloned" as such. There is a PeakTek re-brand that came up a few pages back, but it's the same H/W from the same OEM (still Owon AAFIK).

Chris.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ben23 on February 15, 2020, 08:25:19 pm
Thanks Gyro. I received my scope today, it's definitely the isolated version and I've got it working great on my ancient Macbook Pro using the florentbr Github repo, with just the minor change to the installer as per this issue (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/4).

I read in the online manual (http://www.agesys.ro/pdf/VDS_Series_User_Manual.pdf) that:
Quote
When the  attenuation  switch  is  set  to  1X,  the  probe  will  limit  the  bandwidth of the oscilloscope in 5MHz. To use the full bandwidth of the oscilloscope, the switch must be set to 10X.

I haven't seen this discussed before. It doesn't make any sense to me - surely all the switch does is reduce the voltage to a tenth of what it would have been (and, in software, multiply all the readings by ten). I don't see that the scope itself either knows or cares whether that attenuation is on, all it cares about is the voltage it sees. So why would it affect the bandwidth?

As for clones, I was just judging on the basis of listings like this one (https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASHATA-VDS1022I-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-default/dp/B07WZLPB39/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=vds1022i&qid=1581798081&sr=8-5), where you have what is obviously the same design in every respect but lacks the Owon logo. I guess they are still made by Owon but "white label" for reselling...

Cheers
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 15, 2020, 10:10:44 pm
Hmm, I've never seen a 'white label' one. From the look of it, it's no cheaper than a genuine one, so I suspect that it is original H/W.

Glad you've got it working as advertised, and on a Macbook.

The scope probe X1 / X10 thing is common to all scopes and all switchable scope probes. Basically, in X1, the probe tip exhibits the full capacitance of the probe cable plus the input capacitance of the scope (probably about 100pF in total) and the scope 1M ohm input resistance. This limits the useable bandwidth of the probe to very low frequencies, certainly not above audio - depending on the source impedance.

In the X10 position, the probe is configured as a 10M Ohm high impedance voltage divider, 9M Ohms in the probe tip (plus a bit of capacitance) combined with the 1M ohm input resistance of the scope. The Input capacitance at the probe tip is reduced by approximately the same ratio (around 10-15pF), making it suitable for high frequency use with minimal circuit loading.

Do a forum search of variations of 'scope probe switchable, X1,X10' etc. and you will get loads of hits. It's a fairly common question.

The X1 position is pretty useless unless you need a bit of extra low frequency sensitivity, but you could just as easily use a BNC clip lead and get the same performance. It is best practice to keep the probes switched to X10 (there is a probe division menu in the scope s/w [EDIT: Channel Menu, Probe Rate] so that all the readings come out correctly), for the reason above, and to provide additional useful protection to the scope inputs. The switches tend to be a reliability liability too, I don't know why switchable probes are so common (you can get dedicated X10 probes... and X100 probes for high voltage or low loading use).

Don't forget to adjust the probe compensation trimmers to give a proper square wave on the X10 setting, using the scope Cal output, before using them in anger. That should be documented in the manual too.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ben23 on February 16, 2020, 06:37:20 pm
Very interesting, thanks Gyro. For voltages within the range that can be safely read by both 1X and 10X, I would have expected 1X to be the better choice. I clearly have a lot of learning to do! I did notice I got cleaner traces of the test signal in 10X than 1X.

I've done the probe compensation, thanks.

How close should the 5V test output be to 5V? It's reading as 4.800V on mine (Vamp). I also have a slight difference / DC offset of about 80mV between the two channels' readings, which repeated Auto Calibration runs haven't fixed (it's the channels that are reading differently, not the probes, as the same channel remains higher when the probes are swapped), so I'm wondering whether I need to go into that hidden menu to manually tweak it...

Edit: The difference between the channels appears to be differing amounts of noise, as it's still present when nothing is connected, and always reads roughly the same amount in percentage terms. i.e. if the display is set to 5V/div, it will read say 200-400mV of noise, whereas if it's set to 5mV/div, it will read 0.2-0.4mV.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 16, 2020, 07:42:14 pm
Glad it helped.  :)

The 5V test output is derived from the USB supply (well at least the isolated DC-DC converter which isolates the USB on the VDS1022I). As such, it is not that well regulated and will vary a bit with USB port voltage, USB cable drop etc. That's not an issue in practice - it is intended purely as a nice clean square wave for probe compensation rather than a voltage calibration source. It does sound a little bit low though.

The auto calibration (as I understand it) uses mainly factory calibration settings which are stored in Flash memory in the unit for amplitude, and concentrates mostly on voltage zero and zero offset adjustments. Yes, you can use the hidden calibration menu to fine tune the settings (I found that I can improve slightly on the Autocal on my unit), and FlorentBR's description makes the differentiation between Zero amplitude and Zero offset settings clearer than we previously understood. You can use a PSU+DMM to calibrate the V/div settings (one time where using X1 probe setting is useful because the highest range becomes 5V/div rather than 50V/div).

Don't get too hung up on the noise measurement values changing as you change ranges - remember that, like most DSOs, the scope uses an 8 bit ADC (ie. 256 discrete levels full scale - negative max to positive max of the range), so will never be as DC accurate as an average DMM. When you change ranges, the significance of a couple of ADC bits changing is scaled accordingly in the readout. ie. you see the same couple of bits interpreted as 0.4mV on the lowest range and 400mV on the highest.

For absolute voltage accuracy, a DMM will always be superior, but for seeing what a signal actually looks like, you can't beat the scope.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Ben23 on February 16, 2020, 11:20:27 pm
For absolute voltage accuracy, a DMM will always be superior

You haven't seen my DMM ;)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 17, 2020, 11:21:06 am
I'm willing to bet that it has more than 8 bit resolution though.  :)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on February 18, 2020, 07:51:05 pm
Hello again. I am still enjoying my Owon 1022, but seem to have a "problem" with the TTL external input for triggering.

I can't get it to work - don't know if it's my ineptness or something else.

Has anyone here tried using the EXT as a trigger? Any ideas?

My input signal is a square wave 32us wide and goes from 0v to +9.6v and back down again.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 18, 2020, 08:53:27 pm
A quick thought - have you been into the Utility menu and set the 'Multi' to Trigger In? I think it defaults to trigger out.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: cosmin1 on February 23, 2020, 10:36:07 am
Hi guys.
Thanks for tones of info i could find in this topic. It answered a lot of my questions and i'm almost convinced to buy the 1022i.
I would appreciate more customizable skin and trace color, to look better like the real oscilloscopes.

That's why i also find interesting the Loto OSCA02, but there isn't any info about it. This means isn't worth the money?
Price is 20$ more than the Owon.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 23, 2020, 12:37:59 pm
That's a new one, I haven't seen it before. As you say, there doesn't seem to be much info around. I found a youtube video on it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9sUpl1PCDA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9sUpl1PCDA)

...which indicates that it 100Msps like the Owon (don't know if that's per channel or shared). It adds basic 6 bit logic analyser / GPIO capability, data logging (which could be useful), and a 48k buffer (Owon is 5k).  Basic edge triggering only. I don't think it has galvanic isolation though, but I was skipping through the video a bit.

He is raving about the UI in the video, comparing it with the Hantek 6022, I don't think he mentioned the Owon at all. I'm not a fan of on-screen virtual knobs, but that's a personal preference thing. It looks fairly understandable though. He seems to think that FFT and Autoset button are unique features? Huh?  Something screwy seems to happen when he switches from sinewave to squarewave at 1MHz too (15:48), he has to wind down his generator frequency to get it to display. I'm not sure what the flashing warning triangle is about?

I'd be interested to see a teardown to see how much it's doing on board and how much in the PC -  it must be doing something because it mentions the 48k buffer, whereas Hantek claims 1MB, but that's just the arbitrary size of the buffer in the PC that it streams data into in realtime (so effectively the Hantek has none on the device).

It's probably worth you starting a new thread to discuss it so that replies on the different scopes don't get confused.


P.S. Here's a manufacturer video, looks quite good but you need some patience...

https://youtu.be/mUM9R6rnH90 (https://youtu.be/mUM9R6rnH90)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: cosmin1 on February 26, 2020, 05:36:13 pm
Hello.
As i said, i already ordered the Owon VDS1022i.
Now i just want to install the florentbr's version software with customizable trace colour, to play with it and familiarize myself with the menus.

I follow exactly the indications in Readme file, but all i get is the next error and no app is installing.

## Install
Download and extract the following archive: 
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/archive/master.zip
Right click on `install-win.cmd` and select "Run as administrator". 
The script installs the drivers, copies the files, registers for uninstall and creates a menu entry.


Am i doing something wrong?
My OS is Windows7 64bit.

Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 26, 2020, 05:42:46 pm
I think you mean florentbr's s/w.  :)

P.S.   F:\  looks a bit strange unless you have lots of drives?

P.P.S. It may be because you don't have any hardware to attach yet. I'm not sure how I would go about manually installing a driver in device manager if the hardware wasn't already connected. I think it will also automatically pick up the driver from Camomille's installation when you plug it in.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 26, 2020, 07:07:29 pm
My Application Shortcut is:

%JAVA_HOME%\bin\javaw.exe -Djava.library.path="C:\Program Files\OwonVdsTiny\lib" -Duser.dir="%APPDATA%\OwonVdsTiny" -cp "C:\Program Files\OwonVdsTiny\jar\*" com.owon.vds.tiny.Main

(It should have been put as an entry in your start menu by the installer script)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 26, 2020, 07:16:52 pm
I was hoping that it had got that far before failing to install the driver. Sorry, I wouldn't have a clue where to start with remote access.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on February 26, 2020, 07:50:18 pm
cosmin1 Unzip,copy this file in folder OWON-VDS1022-master and run my modified install-win.cmd without installing the driver. Show me the black window after running this script.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: cosmin1 on February 26, 2020, 08:59:35 pm
Oh yeaaaaaaaaaaaah!
That's what i'm talking about.  :clap:

So the old install-win was bad.
Now everything's different. Thank you very much!
I suppose now i can uninstall the original 1.0.30, right?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 26, 2020, 09:02:41 pm
Nice wallpaper!  :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: cosmin1 on February 26, 2020, 09:15:21 pm
Thanks Gyro!  ;D
One more question. Can't see anywhere the background colour setting. I lost it?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on February 26, 2020, 09:39:49 pm
That's one you're going to have to wait for (maybe), I don't know if florentbr is planning to make that customizable too at some point. Owon used to offer 2 skins (Black and Blue) which he has removed in favour of individual colour settings, but they were both black background for the screen.

The black background is pretty much standard for scopes DSOs (apart from old mono LCD Tek ones and Picoscope). I think it give best trace contrast anyway, especially by the time you have measurements, cursors, math channel etc. up at the same time.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: cosmin1 on February 27, 2020, 04:30:41 am
Oh... i see.
I thought i read somewhere about changeable background too, but maybe i'm wrong.
Thanks again.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on February 27, 2020, 05:46:53 am
I suppose now i can uninstall the original 1.0.30, right?
I 'm glad you did well! :D
Uninstall the original version will also remove the USB driver from the system! So when you get your hardware Owon and plug it in, you 'll need to have those drivers in your system.
They can be installed separately if you save the USBDRV folder from the installed original 1.30 VDS_C2
I also suggest you delete your previous version installation messages from florentbr to avoid clogging unnecessary information with this topic. I will also delete my messages except one that contains a modified install-win.cmd.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: cosmin1 on March 12, 2020, 08:55:39 am
I shouldn't have deleted the earlier posts...
I received the oscilloscope, insalled the manufacturer software and working fine.
But now i'm trying to install the florentbr's s/w on other laptop and i get this message. Installed Java but still can't install the s/w.
What else can i do?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: cosmin1 on March 16, 2020, 04:45:42 pm
Now everything's installed right but the launcher is nowhere to find.  >:(
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on March 16, 2020, 10:38:20 pm
Now everything's installed right but the launcher is nowhere to find.  >:(

Try creating a shortcut with...

 %JAVA_HOME%\bin\javaw.exe -Djava.library.path="C:\Program Files\OwonVdsTiny\lib" -Duser.dir="%APPDATA%\OwonVdsTiny" -cp "C:\Program Files\OwonVdsTiny\jar\*" com.owon.vds.tiny.Main

(It should already be in your start menu - it says it created it)


P.S. Please try not to get angry about it. It's not as if the florentbr s/w something you're paying for, you already have the working product software!  :(
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: cosmin1 on March 17, 2020, 05:36:47 am
I'm angry about my laptop, not about the software.
Will try to do that.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on March 17, 2020, 09:52:03 am
Ah ok, it's perfectly normal to get annoyed at computers from time to time.  :)

I'm interested to know if the shortcut worked - you ought to find the one on your other computer to be identical (I think).

The only I thing I remember from your previous deleted installation posts was that it was important not to rename anything (folders etc.), after that, my memory fails me.


P.S. Reply #573 still contains the zip file from Indman which seemed to sort you out last time.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: cosmin1 on March 17, 2020, 10:07:00 am
I use only install-win file from Indman.
After restart, the launcher shortcut appeared in Start menu.
But i can not change the colours. I set that blue colour but traces remain red/yellow.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on March 17, 2020, 12:31:59 pm
cosmin1
I explained everything to you in detail in my previous messages. You have a bad memory? Why do you need old useless messages that you and I have correctly deleted? You could simply copy an already installed shell from florentbr to a new computer. I see blue trace on your screenshot for X+Y mode. To select the color of individual trace, go to the Channels menu.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: cosmin1 on March 18, 2020, 05:51:35 am
You where right, but i just asked a decent question, no need to be rude.
I have many problems that i must take care of, and can't remember everything, especially since this is the first time i actually use this tool.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: common_ground on March 27, 2020, 11:03:42 pm
XY capability is actually not bad :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06lgdxVHOlI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06lgdxVHOlI)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQn3-Byx3Sg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQn3-Byx3Sg)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: lighthunt on April 24, 2020, 05:58:00 pm
Hi,
I have the 1022i (isolated version) which supposed be 400V (peak to peak) according to spec (with probe set 1x I assume?). (I like that as I intend to check my tube amp.) However even when probing mains (230V), the wave goes off the chart (with top and bottom off the screen). I am not able to set more than 5V/div on the vertical scale and the auto measurements says "250V?" (the question mark being the sign it's of the scale, I am guessing). With 400V as max input, I would expect the software to allow me to set maybe 50V/div with 1x probe. What am I doing wrong?
Sorry for trivial question, it's my first scope. Thanks
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on April 24, 2020, 06:42:59 pm
Welcome to the forum,

Firstly, Please stop probing the mains, it is not safe!

The VDS1022I provides Galvanic isolation of the USB interface, for protection of the attached PC from accidental ground loops. That does not make it safe for connection to the mains though. The metal case is connected to the probe ground clips, so it will be sitting at mains Neutral (or mains Live if you accidentally mistake the mains terminals!). Remember also that the two probe ground clips are connected to each other, as well as to the case.

With regard to the scaling. The scope is rated for 400V max with the probe on X10, so 40V max at X1. I know the spec is confusing, maybe they are trying to imply something about the USB isolation, but the input stages of the non-isolated and isolated versions are identical.

I know that many people look around for something to look at when they get their first scope, but please resist the temptation to pick the mains - many unfortunately do, and sometimes with disastrous results. If you want to look at the mains waveform, then use a small isolated step-down transformer, 24V for example.

The only safe way to scope mains voltage circuits is to use a high voltage differential probe.


P.S. Please watch the following video (Dave's How not to blow up your Oscilloscope):

https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ (https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ)


P.P.S. If you're going to be doing stuff on valve amps, it would definitely be worth purchasing a X100 probe, They are not expensive. Otherwise you will be pushing the voltage rating limits of normal X10 probes (the probes themselves).
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: lighthunt on April 30, 2020, 07:18:27 pm
Hi Gyro, thank you for warm welcome and fast response!

With regard to the scaling. The scope is rated for 400V max with the probe on X10, so 40V max at X1. I know the spec is confusing, maybe they are trying to imply something about the USB isolation, but the input stages of the non-isolated and isolated versions are identical.
I suspected that may be the case after all and thanks for confirmation. The specs are indeed confusing, especilly 'cause they have 400V and 40V next to each other for all models in one table on their website, one would expect they'd use the same method/scale for specs ... (I was hoping it would go to 4000V with 10x probe according to specs sheet before purchase). But no problem, this and 100x probe hint answers my question. I didn't know probe itself is limited in voltage as it's passive  ...

Secondly, I appreciate (no sarcasm) all the extra effort in security warnings which I imagine took 4x more time to answer. Being shocked at several occasions by mains as kid  :phew:, I consider myself immune already  :box: (just kidding, but only with the second part of this sentence).

FYI, since we are talking about safety, I have chosen to probe mains on purpose as I wanted to test some high voltage before going to even higher voltage that may appear in a tube amp eventually (well I admit I was curious about actual shape in my location while trying that too). I realize the difference is that circuit with tubes are typically behind transformer, mains are not. Anyways, I have been running USB scope connected to laptop powered by battery and controlled the software by wireless mouse during measurements. This is probably still not according to safety standards, but here I think usb scopes may have actually some edge over bench scopes in practical safety in my opinion (if made sure noone and nothing may touch the laptop+scope, also a wooden desk is better than metal  :P). Am I right or missing something? (this is still not an advice for anyone).

(Tube amps, always discharge filter caps and always one hand in the pocket and think twice anytime before diving in ... they want to be respected)

Thank again and cheers
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on April 30, 2020, 07:33:21 pm
You're welcome.  :)

It's always difficult to know the level of knowledge (or even age) of a newcomer, so I always err on the side of caution.


A couple of other advantages of a X100 probe which I forgot to mention...

1. 100M input resistance (stray capacitance is also lower, but not as much as you might hope) which gives you more choice of the nodes you can probe without totally messing up the biasing, and

2. No pesky X1/X10 switch that can be almost guaranteed accidentally to slip into X1 at the worst possible moment!


P.S. Yes,  the (passive) probe does have its own voltage rating as it is a combined resistive and capacitive divider to maintain frequency response. The voltage rating must also be de-rated at high (luckily not audio) frequencies for the same reason.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: VitaliyKrym on May 17, 2020, 07:17:04 pm
Is it possible to replace dead SiM3U156 with a new one?
How it should be programmed?
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: deSales327 on June 04, 2020, 12:56:08 am
Hi everyone!
As per advice of user Gyro I'm looking to buy a VDS1022I, I just have one question, is anyone running, or ran just for the lols, the software on a Mac?

Be safe!
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 04, 2020, 04:48:28 pm
Hi again deSales327,

I'm kicking myself!  :palm:  I'd completely forgotten that Florentbr's S/W version has a Mac (and Linux) install script in addition to Win. This is currently the best added functionality version of the Owon S/W... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 05, 2020, 07:40:44 pm
I just noticed that Farnell {Edit: and Rapid] are selling the VDS1022/1022I / VDS2062 / VDS3102 under their own Multicomp Pro brand (eg. the VDS1022s are the MP720016 / MP720017). Price look similar to ebay until you remember that they do not include VAT, but that's understandable for a distributor.

Out of curiosity I downloaded the S/W. It proclaims itself to be V1.0.32.2 (the current shipping Owon version is V1.0.30). I couldn't see any visible differences when briefly running Launcher.exe, the OWON logo has been surgically removed from the title bar, but not replaced with anything, just leaving the little 'PC' icon on the title bar and taskbar icon. Owon references have been removed from the documentation too, but not replaced. This s/w does have a higher version number than the German PeakTech rebrand though. The FPGA code is still V3.7. I didn't bother going as far as plugging the scope H/W in.

The installer can be unzipped as usual to get at the Java files, but unfortunately they haven't been clumsy enough to leave in the sources, as they did on V1.0.23.

This is probably just a curiosity at this stage as the stock Owon s/w has been superseded by improved versions like Indman's V1.0.23 based and Florentbr's V1.0.30 based versions.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 06, 2020, 12:18:36 pm
Hi again deSales327,

I'm kicking myself!  :palm:  I'd completely forgotten that Florentbr's S/W version has a Mac (and Linux) install script in addition to Win. This is currently the best added functionality version of the Owon S/W... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022)

Just a note on installing the Florentbr software. I've just been remotely talking my son through installing the s/w and he ran into a problem with the s/w installing correctly (including creating the Start menu shortcut), but not being able to see the VDS1022 scope...

In the Dependencies section of the Florentbr github page it states "This software requires Java Runtime Environnement 8 or superior".  The https://adoptopenjdk.net/ page currently defaults to OpenJDK 11 (LTS). Note that on a windows install (don't know about Linux and Mac), if you install this version, you will most likely have the same problem of the s/w not recognising the scope, even though it is visible in the Device manager.

You need to manually select and install the OpenJDK 8 (LTS) version in order to make the Florentbr S/W work correctly (tested by uninstalling version 11 and installing V8).

I hope this helps someone.


EDIT: Nice fast response and workaround from Florent... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/7 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/7)  :-+
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on June 09, 2020, 08:12:13 pm
@ Florentbr
@ Gyro

Thank you so much for your previous post about how to install Florentbr´s software. That did it for me!
I went to github a few months ago, got confused and felt like running round in circles online at oracle as well.

The software works beautifully, I love the design too. A color palette to chose from, YES ... and in case nobody has
noticed, the pesky black extra length under the saved scope picture is gone now! No more having to crop them ...

I wonder how many extras are still hidden in Florentbr´s software waiting to be discovered ...

A big cheers  :-+ to you both and thank you again.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Nullarbor on June 09, 2020, 08:13:43 pm
Gosh, forgot ... I installed this on the old Acer netbook with windows7 32 bit.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: lotas on June 10, 2020, 10:13:03 pm
Hi, a new release has been released:

2020/06/10 (1.0.30-cf10)

added Italian translation (thanks to Marco Morelli)
changed channel 1 factory color from red to green
changed default factory coupling from AC to DC
changed retore button to restore the saved settings instead of the factory settings
fixed trigger pulse/slope input width
removed unsupported install USB driver menu
improved/fixed install scripts (issues 4, 7, 8 )
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: Gyro on June 11, 2020, 10:01:24 am
Quote
changed restore button to restore the saved settings instead of the factory settings

That one change is enough reason to update on its own!  Owon putting a restore to Factory settings button on the main screen was a pain in the ass!  Making it a 'restore to saved settings' makes it actually useful.  :-+


P.S. You can tell from the file dates what needs to be updated - in this case, just the Readme, install scripts and the JAR folder. There's no need to do a full re-install.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: lotas on June 11, 2020, 10:43:03 am
And also OpenJDK 11 (LTS) during installation - "fixed in release 1.0.30-cf10".
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/7
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on June 11, 2020, 12:17:10 pm
Hi, a new release has been released:
2020/06/10 (1.0.30-cf10)

Once again, a big respect florentbr for the release of software updates. :-+
If he reads this topic, then I would like to point out a few more points in the interface that are striking and would like to fix.
Also, in the near future I will send him a corrected Russian language file for the shell because the original translation into Russian has many errors and inaccuracies. ;)
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: common_ground on June 11, 2020, 01:43:44 pm
much respect for florentbr too  :clap:

and finally pulse/slope trigger works correctly.
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: indman on June 14, 2020, 11:25:31 am
For those who want to see Russian tips in the new cf10 release from  florentbr , as well as a corrected translation into Russian!
It is necessary to replace the owon-vds-tiny-1.0.30-cf10.jar file in the installed shell with a new one, which also contains my button icons and also icons from Gyro.
To display the tips in Russian, you need to unzip the tips.ru archive and replace the files at: Path to the installed shell \ OwonVdsTiny \ doc \ tips_en \
Title: Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
Post by: torgil on August 12, 2020, 07:25:29 pm
Awesome!

I bought the VDS1022I after reading the whole thread. Today (after being on hold for a while) I got florentbr 1.0.30-cf10 up and running in no time on an old Macbook Pro. It didn't start first (jdk-11.0.1)  so I tweaked install-mac.sh to select another JAVA_HOME (jdk1.8.0_192) and that worked. Thanks!

What do you use to decompile the java source code?   I tried to make a git repository with the decompiled sources to see the diff from version to version and from different suppliers. I ran them through JD-GUI but it's not very consistent in variable naming, indentation etc which made the diffs rather noisy. It's always entertaining to see the software architecture (seen a number of these as a part my job working with test software a number of years ago) and the hacks made for adding a new product.

My aim is to get scripting and automation going (with or without GUI, with or without java, whatever makes the most sense, I don't know yet). If i'm in luck maybe even continuous sampling to laptop or RPi4 (making an awesome test station) memory will work. Do you know if this is feasible?