EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Gyro on August 24, 2015, 12:34:32 pm
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As this just came up in another post, and I can't find any other pictures on the web (Plenty of the Hantek 6022be) I though it was about time to do a teardown of my Owon VDS1022I. Naturally there will be quite a few comparisons with the similarly targeted Hantek.
A teardown of the Hantek can be found in this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-6022be-20mhz-usb-dso/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hantek-6022be-20mhz-usb-dso/)
I realize that this won't be of much interest to the Rigol DS1054Z crowd, but when a bunch of these came up cheap a couple of years ago on ebay uk I thought it was worth a go. I already have a Picoscope ADC216 16bit for audio use, a Tek475A 250MHz Analogue for high frequency stuff and a decent logic analyzer for long trace digital, so I couldn't justify yet another bench-top, I just needed a 'fill in' for the middle. I also reasoned that the first things to fail on a Chinese bench scope would be SMPS, front panel controls and fan so getting something with non of these would be a bonus!
Anyway, on with the teardown. The VDS1022I is a dual channel 100Msps (per channel) 25MHz. This seems a bit more realistic sampling speed than the 20MHz 48Msps Hantek. The 'I' suffix indicates USB Isolation - you can float the scope ( the front panel BNCs are 'touchproof' style too). There's also a non-isolated version. Other features include more versatile triggering (Edge, variable Slope and Pulse, TV and with variable hold-off - the Hantek only has edge) Alternate triggering is also included (the ability to trigger on two unrelated signals at the same time) and Variable persistence too. There is also a dedicated Trigger connector which can be used as Trigger In, Trigger Out, and Pass/Fail out, using internally set rules.
The one real downside, spec-wise of the Owon is it's 5k samples per channel memory depth, versus a claimed 1M for the Hantek, not an issue for me, but might be for others. The Owon also uses (only needs) USB 1.1 vs the Hantek's USB2. Both of these are side effects of the significant internal architectural difference.
It is in the architecture that I think the Owon wins. Where the Hantek just uses an EzUSB micro for interfacing the ADC to USB, the Owon includes a Silicon Labs SiM3U156 32 bit ARM Cortex-M3 CPU together with a Xilinx Spartan-3 FPGA. There's clearly a lot more happening on-board than in the Hantek. Presumably the triggering is all handled on board (especially as there is a Trigger-out), together with data compression needed to pipe the data via USB1.1 at decent refresh rate. It also results in very low PC overhead with minimal impact on running other applications even on a low-end PC. The 5k memory depth is clearly a less desirable side effect. I'm not sure where the Hantek's triggering is handled, as it's edge only it could either be on-board or in the PC software.
The USB 1.1 interface also allows the USB isolation, which is performed by an ADUM3160. USB power is isolated by a TI DCP020505 2W isolated DC-DC converter. This has the lower isolation voltage of the two devices at 1kV. PCB clearances are very good. There are also un-populated footprints for a non isolated RS-232 interface. Some of the higher end models have LAN too, but there are no footprints on the board for this.
On the Analogue side, the A/D is an AD9288 dual in its 100Msps variant. ADC drive is via a pair of LMH6551 370MHz Differential op-amps and at least part of the gain switching is accomplished by a pair of AD603 90MHz pin selectable variable gain amplifiers, according to the datasheet these are capable of a 42dB gain range at 30MHz. The only hand mods visible are beefier supply caps on the LMH6551s. The front end, which presumably includes the higher voltage attenuators, AC/DC selection and input amps is heavily screened in cans top and bottom side which I have no intention of trying to remove (another difference from the Hantek). Video triggering is implemented using a dedicated Rohm BA7046 sync separator rather than all in s/w. There are several other packages that I haven't managed to identify in the analogue area, and there is a scattering of supply regulators around the board.
All in all then a fairly large component cost compared to the opposition. It's clearly a more comprehensive design which presumably shares a lot of its acquisition circuitry with the PDS5022 desktop model, which shares the same bandwidth, sample rate and memory depth. The supplied probes were 60MHz bandwidth X1/X10 which seem pretty good.
In terms of PC software, this is very subjective from user to user. I like the Owon for its lack of pseudo knobs (!) general screen layout and number of useful shortcuts (once you find them) and of course the added functionality. FFT and Maths traces can be selected to come up on a separate grid to the main traces. Persistence can be set from zero to infinity. Note that interpolation is fixed as sinX/X and trace colors, which match the probes and input connectors cannot be changed. The original s/w had a few bugs around single trace but the current s/w seems fine. I did flag one bug in the memory system at the end of last year which their engineers fixed (sending me a couple of test versions to confirm) before releasing, which I think could be described as 'responsive'.
Full disclosure: I have no connection with either company, other than having bought the Owon.
Pictures are attached and questions / comments are welcome. Thank you if you've made it this far! :=\
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Thank you about this.
Is it possible you make one very tiny test,
If you have 50ohm BNC terminator use these, if not then input connectors open. (not probe, just open input BNC)
Both channels on, coupling DC.
Set vertical sensitivity to lowest voltage where is not BW rejection.
Set channels vertical positions so that other is 2div over center and other 2 div under center.
Set horizontal speed to 1ms/div, if you can set persistence 1s or more
Scope display image.
Set horizontal to 1us/div, same persistence
Scope display image.
So we can see scope front end internal noise level.
(keep fingers and all far away from inputs for avoid external signal noise, also depending computer look that its (possible) EMI noise do not affect scope open inputs)
If you have 50 ohm terminators then repeat and take pictures with terminators connected
(in some cases if there internal noise levels this test may change displayed noise level (and how it change may also tell something, specially if it rise)
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There is higher models also, and lets hope some day someone show VDS 2000 or 3000 series some teardown and tests. (10M memory, 500M and 1G samplerate, up to 4 channels etc)
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Hi rf-loop,
Yes, happy to help. I do have 50 ohm terminators so these are fitted.
I've attached the two saved images for 1ms/div (sampling at 250kS/s) and 1us/div (Sampling at 100MS/s) as you asked. The input stages are pretty quiet!
Settings were:
- 5mV/div (most sensitive)
- Persistence set to infinite (ran for about 2 mins each time)
- Sampling, Peak detect
I also turned on the measurements for Vp-p and Vrms.
I don't think pc induced noise is an issue due to the USB isolation.
Yes I'd like to see the higher models too! It's a shame the USB isolation only extends up to the 250MSps model.
I hope this gives you what you need. Please ask if you want other measurements.
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Sorry, I just re-read your post and realized that you also asked for screenshots with terminators removed (empty sockets, no scope probes). Please find these attached too. All other settings the same, still nice and quiet. :)
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Thank you.
Result is not bad at all (some amount better what I expect). Of course it need note that analog BW is 25MHz so also analog front end natural noise is less what makes it quite easy. (Higher analog BW makes it much more complicated and there also circuit design and component selection is critical and in high role). Also it is good that terminated inputs result is same or less that unterminated.
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Glad it was helpful, as you say the 25MHz bandwidth helps minimize the noise. I'll try an analogue sweep tomorrow and see what bandwidth it actually achieves, I've never thought to do that before.
P.S. I've just been browsing the Hantek 6022be, thread and seen that the claimed 100M samples is actually its memory buffer in the PC software, it only has the 2k fifo in the EzUSB micro as on-board memory, and can't continuously stream 48Msps to the PC. While the Owon's 5k samples per channel is still small in current terms, it is at least real, which is nice. :)
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@ rf-loop,
Just to follow up, I ran a frequency scan today as I indicated. I used an Adret 730A synthesized sig gen with 50 ohm through-terminator directly at the scope input. At 1Vrms signal level. Averaging was turned on:
Channel 1 was -3dB at 34.7MHz
Channel 2 was -3dB at 31.2MHz
I guess this makes the 25MHz spec a little conservative, but easily enough to cope with worst case units.
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Gyro,
thanks a lot for the teardown, and posting this! Very timely. (I had been thinking of doing a comparative review vs. the 6022BE, and just ordered the Owon recently for that purpose. So you saved me quite a bit of time.)
The one real downside, spec-wise of the Owon is it's 5k samples per channel memory depth, versus a claimed 1M for the Hantek, not an issue for me, but might be for others.
Well, I'd consider the Hantek claim to be fraudulent, since the 1M isn't internal to the acquisition module. They could as easily have claimed 10M/channel, or 100M. IMO, if you're going to pull that kind of crap in your advertising, you have a responsibility to make it clear that you're leveraging the memory in the PC. Which Hantek "accidentally" still fails to do (after having only years to correct it). The 6022BE has 1k/channel internally, and they should be honest, and admit that. Much of what we know about the Hantek device was only discovered after many folks here obtained them, and dug into their internals to expose the truth. Hantek played no role in that.
The Owon also uses (only needs) USB 1.1 vs the Hantek's USB2.
That's interesting. I say that because I was told specifically, and unequivocally by an Owon tech support person at Owon HQ that the USB1.1 was a leftover documentation error, and the actual interface was USB2.0. However, I see from the ADC spec-sheet that only USB-FS is possible through the isolation device. Which makes me suspect that the VDS-1022 (non I) has USB2.0, while the isolated version can do only USB1.1. Unless their Tech was FOS. There's certainly no reason, beyond the ADUM3160, that the Owon couldn't do USB2.0 w/o difficulty. (But also, not much reason to do so. Unlike on their higher-level VDS models, which have 5M or 10M/channel.)
It is in the architecture that I think the Owon wins. Where the Hantek just uses an EzUSB micro for interfacing the ADC to USB, the Owon includes a Silicon Labs SiM3U156 32 bit ARM Cortex-M3 CPU together with a Xilinx Spartan-3 FPGA. There's clearly a lot more happening on-board than in the Hantek.
No kidding! The 6022BE cut every corner possible, and eliminated every component they could. The device is essentially nothing more than a low-speed sample streamer, with extremely limited front-end gain scaling (prone to truncating traces, on many gain settings). That's actually a very good chip-complement on the Owon.
...together with data compression needed to pipe the data via USB1.1 at decent refresh rate. It also results in very low PC overhead with minimal impact on running other applications even on a low-end PC.
I'm not sure any compression is required. With just 5K/channel, even sending it all over (which isn't necessary in real-time modes), that's at least 100 screen refreshes/sec.
The 5k memory depth is clearly a less desirable side effect.
While that's certainly very low, in comparison with many current DSOs, it actually better than what most DSO's had available for many, many years. At one point, 2K or 2.5K/chan was a "big deal". And with decent triggering (which the Owon has), 5K can provide very good results, along with the ability to zoom in a bit (perhaps up to 10x). While that's not going to challenge DSOs with 1000x, or 10,000x zooms, it's not bad for such an inexpensive device.
I'm not sure where the Hantek's triggering is handled, as it's edge only it could either be on-board or in the PC software.
There is no on-board triggering of any kind, and it's ALL handled in the PC software. >:( With pretty poor results at some sampling rates (highly unstable trace rendering).
The front end, which presumably includes the higher voltage attenuators, AC/DC selection and input amps is heavily screened in cans top and bottom side which I have no intention of trying to remove (another difference from the Hantek).
Yes, that's a big difference, and the residual noise levels are quite impressive on the Owon... FAR below those on the Hantek, even after extra shielding had been provided by owner-mods.
Video triggering is implemented using a dedicated Rohm BA7046 sync separator rather than all in s/w. There are several other packages that I haven't managed to identify in the analogue area, and there is a scattering of supply regulators around the board.
And again, it's impressive that they'd go to the trouble to incorporate a special chip, just to be able to provide Video triggering!
In terms of PC software, this is very subjective from user to user. I like the Owon for its lack of pseudo knobs (!) general screen layout and number of useful shortcuts (once you find them) and of course the added functionality.
Not having had an opportunity yet to operate one yet, I can't comment on usability. But in terms of look and feel, and cleanness of the UI layout, I'd say it's head and shoulders beyond the software provided for the 6022BE. As in, "generations apart".
Considering that the 6022BE generally goes for about $70, and the Owon VDS-1022 for about $50 more, I'd say that the Owon wins hands down. Unless that $50 is so important to you that you're willing to put up with endless aggravation with the 6022BE, in general-purpose scope use. OR you can make good use of the streaming capabilities of the 6022BE (which the Owon can't do at all). Streaming on the Hantek is quite powerful, so if you need to capture a large amount of data (at either a high OR low speed), then the Hantek has that use-case nailed. Just because the scope program that Hantek supplies limits you to 1M samples, doesn't mean that a simple App using their SDK can't capture far, far more than that. Capturing a gig of samples shouldn't be difficult.
Thanks again for your efforts, Gyro, and taking the time to share. :-+
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Quick question...
The 'I' suffix indicates USB Isolation - you can float the scope ( the front panel BNCs are 'touchproof' style too). There's also a non-isolated version.
I see that the Model ID on the case of your unit says 1022, not 1022I. Is there some more detailed info, perhaps on a bottom sticker? I ask because what I ordered was a non-I model, but may wind up getting an I variant anyway. I'm wondering if I'll have to take it apart to tell the difference? (It's used, and I don't think the original package is included.)
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Hi Mark,
Thanks for your comments and interest, there's nothing sadder than watching your treasured teardown sinking without trace for lack of interest :). Grateful for rf-loop's questions of course and glad I've saved you some time too.
When I bought the Owon I hadn't really discovered EEVblog so hadn't seen the 6022be thread, it was really 50:50 whether I went for the Hantek or the Owon I did it purely on higher sample rate vs the extra cost, a lucky shot.
Well, I'd consider the Hantek claim to be fraudulent, since the 1M isn't internal to the acquisition module. They could as easily have claimed 10M/channel, or 100M. IMO, if you're going to pull that kind of crap in your advertising, you have a responsibility to make it clear that you're leveraging the memory in the PC. Which Hantek "accidentally" still fails to do (after having only years to correct it). The 6022BE has 1k/channel internally, and they should be honest, and admit that. Much of what we know about the Hantek device was only discovered after many folks here obtained them, and dug into their internals to expose the truth. Hantek played no role in that.
Me too, I didn't actually realize until I dug deeper into the 6022be thread. I'm not completely sure where the Owon has it's buffer, presumably in the ARM chip, or fifos implemented in the Xilinx FPGA or both. Curiously the desktop version spec says 6k per channel, it's the only difference in spec from the 1022I. I guess the problem here is that it's going to be pretty much impossible to reverse engineer the Owon unlike the Hantek (unless you're a lot cleverer than me anyway!)
That's interesting. I say that because I was told specifically, and unequivocally by an Owon tech support person at Owon HQ that the USB1.1 was a leftover documentation error, and the actual interface was USB2.0. However, I see from the ADC spec-sheet that only USB-FS is possible through the isolation device. Which makes me suspect that the VDS-1022 (non I) has USB2.0, while the isolated version can do only USB1.1.
Curious, maybe they think saying that something isn't actually USB2 isn't as impressive. :-// As you say, there's no was that USB2 is going to squeeze through the isolator. I've looked on the PCB and there's no way that the 'I' could be depopulated to a 'non I' so they must be different PCBs. Maybe the 'non-I' really is USB2.
No kidding! The 6022BE cut every corner possible, and eliminated every component they could. The device is essentially nothing more than a low-speed sample streamer, with extremely limited front-end gain scaling (prone to truncating traces, on many gain settings). That's actually a very good chip-complement on the Owon.
Yes, certainly no sight on cost cutting, the BOM cost must be way higher for the price. Actually, another difference I've noticed between the VDS1022 'non-I' and 'I' specs... The 'non-I' states maximum input of 40Vp-p whereas the 'I' states 400vp-p. Now whether they are confusing input with input-to-ground with the USB isolation I don't know. There are certainly multiple relays under the shield, you can hear them click on some range changes. Of course as we've established that they are two different PCBs :-// 40V is enough for 400V with a x10 probe anyway.
By the way, I don't know how the 6022be does its AC/DC input switching, I don't see any relays. Can it?
I'm not sure any compression is required. With just 5K/channel, even sending it all over (which isn't necessary in real-time modes), that's at least 100 screen refreshes/sec.
You're probably right, less for the PC s/w to do too. Of course it's impossible to say how many screen refreshes it's doing, there's no spec as there would be on a desktop, but it's certainly fast enough. The PC overhead really is very low, you can't tell it's running on my humble T42 laptop under XP. DISCLAIMER, I haven't been able to try it the s/w on Win7 or later.
Yes, the 5k doesn't seem to be much of a limitation in practice (certainly coming from an analogue). It doesn't have protocol decoders so you're unlikely to be decoding long data streams (an LA is better for that anyway). The Zoom works fine and there are zoom assist cursors too. You can also set the trigger holdoff and position on screen which helps.
There is no on-board triggering of any kind, and it's ALL handled in the PC software. >:( With pretty poor results at some sampling rates (highly unstable trace rendering).
Again, hadn't realized that until I read the 6022be thread, that's horrible! Having decent triggering certainly seems to be a VDS1022 strength, it seems very stable. Having a proper ext trig is helpful - I haven't tried the trig-out functionality yet but hopefully its latency is good enough to be useful, it could certainly be used to post-trigger an logic analyser.
Not having had an opportunity yet to operate one yet, I can't comment on usability. But in terms of look and feel, and cleanness of the UI layout, I'd say it's head and shoulders beyond the software provided for the 6022BE. As in, "generations apart".
It certainly feels like it was designed by an engineer! Worth downloading a copy to play with the menus (and try it on Win7+) even if you can't get traces. I did so a comment somewhere complaining that menu driven was 'so last year' but it's very intuitive. I'm not sure how closely the manual writer was to the s/w engineer, there are lots of undocumented shortcuts - eg. hover over the v/div or t/div values and turn the mouse scroll wheel and they change without needing to bring up a slider. Click on a channel icon and it immediately brings up the channel menu, AC/DC/Off on the fly, same with trigger slope, little arrow next to the on-screen measurements that brings up the measurement menu etc. Non of them documented (I'm still finding them).
I see that the Model ID on the case of your unit says 1022, not 1022I. Is there some more detailed info, perhaps on a bottom sticker? I ask because what I ordered was a non-I model, but may wind up getting an I variant anyway. I'm wondering if I'll have to take it apart to tell the difference? (It's used, and I don't think the original package is included.)
Haha, yes, the only indication is the small barcode label serial number label on the bottom. It reads VDS1022Ixxxxxxx, a very skinny 'I' too, easy to miss.
I sense that I've rambled on again :) Glad it helped.
Chris
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By the way, I don't know how the 6022be does its AC/DC input switching, I don't see any relays. Can it?
Nope. DC-coupled only. If you want AC, you add your own external cap, I guess. ;) And no Gnd/Off option either, of course. Relays would have totally blown the budget on the Hanteks. (It's really rather ingenious how far they managed to strip it down. And I'd still recommend them for certain purposes. Just not as a scope, except for those on the tightest of budgets.)
Thanks for the additional details, Chris. It seems a shame that the software has so many undocumented goodies/shortcuts/usability enhancements. Perhaps you could help fill that void. It sounds like you've uncovered quite a few.
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I'm not completely sure where the Owon has it's buffer, presumably in the ARM chip, or fifos implemented in the Xilinx FPGA or both.
Unless one of the smaller chips you couldn't ID was a RAM chip, the dual 5K buffers must be located on the FPGA itself. All the data has to flow through there anyway, for triggering to be handled.
But it can't be passed on directly to the ARM chip at capture rates, because there is no external data channel capable of handling a 200MB/sec transfer rate. At least not on any of the Cortex-M3's I have ever worked with! It probably gets dumped from FPGA to ARM over a SPI-bus channel (DMA-driven). That could potentially run as fast as ~25 MB/sec (Quad-SSP). And then the ARM sends it out over USB, even slower yet.
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Clearly the man for a bit of reverse engineering then ;D
I've taken some time to get the IPA swabs out and get some better pictures and identify a few more bits...
- The SOT23-5 opamps U1 and U4 between the shield and the AD603 VGAs are AD8061 300MHz rail to rail.
- There are a couple of SGM 8292YS8 High voltage dual rail to rail op-amps by the power converted (one top side, one bottom) with lots of passives around them. I'm wondering if they're being used as charge pumped supplies.
- A pair of SOT23-5s marked YJAA (SGM2019 250mA LDO 30uVrms), obviously low noise supplies for the front end.
- Various other SOT23-5s marked T081(?), S40B (? Switcher), 2 x SC0DA (? Switchers, logic supplies). All look supply related anyway.
There's a single 100MHz clock U76 feeding the ADC and FPGA directly.
Definitely no standalone RAM chip so data must be fifo'd in the FPGA as you said.
There seem to be quite a lot of parallel data signals between the FPGA and ARM so maybe not necessarily SPI. I've tried to get a decent close-up of the data from ADC to FPGA to ARM data paths anyway, nothing significant happening on the back.
During cleaning, a few more small hand mods became apparent. A couple of cuts in the horizontal tracks bottom left of the FPGA, just above U35, maybe related to the not fitted and jumpered-out U29 in the analogue section. There's also a perfectly executed USB signal crossover using diagonal series 24R terminating resistors R99 and R100, just off the top right corner of the ARM - happens to the best of us I guess |O ;D. Apart from that just a few resistor mods and the beefed up caps on the LMH6551s.
One other thing I can't think of is why include an option for fitting a non isolated RS232 port (there's a footprint for a MAX232 on the bottom side). Remote control? data logging? Console?
I've captured a closer view of the analogue section too (U12 is the video sync separator).
Hopefully clearer than my previous efforts anyway.
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Nope. DC-coupled only. If you want AC, you add your own external cap, I guess. ;) And no Gnd/Off option either, of course. Relays would have totally blown the budget on the Hanteks. (It's really rather ingenious how far they managed to strip it down. And I'd still recommend them for certain purposes. Just not as a scope, except for those on the tightest of budgets.)
Thanks for the additional details, Chris. It seems a shame that the software has so many undocumented goodies/shortcuts/usability enhancements. Perhaps you could help fill that void. It sounds like you've uncovered quite a few.
Oops, didn't see your first email.
True, the Hantek does still have its place - it is still one up from the LCD handheld scope type products and USB AX (analogue channel) and for less money. Still might be be a case of cutting the cloth a bit small for what it might have been for $10 more, Looking at the 6022be thread i sense a feeling of "it's ok but a bit disapointing". I do wonder how the manufacturing+BOM costs vs price ratio of the Hantek and Owon compare. I'm still surprised that the Owon hasn't achieved more traction, all I get in a google search are sales sites, virtually no forum type hits. Just looking back, I paid GBP84 for it last year from a UK ebay seller (there were loads). Only 1 ebay UK hit for it now at GBP212 :o I think you can get it much cheaper (nearer the $100 mark?) through the right China channels.
Yes, sure, I'll sit down and have a serious play and see how many undocumented mouse shortcuts I can find and post here. Maybe a marked up screenshot if I can draw well enough.
Just one other thought, as the ADC is direct clocked by the oscillator, it is always sampling flat out at 100MSps. I wonder what it does with all the samples that won't fit at lower speeds - does it have enough intelligence to be able to average them / oversample at lower timebase settings???
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True, the Hantek does still have its place - it is still one up from the LCD handheld scope type products and USB AX (analogue channel) and for less money. Still might be be a case of cutting the cloth a bit small for what it might have been for $10 more, Looking at the 6022be thread i sense a feeling of "it's ok but a bit disapointing".
I do think it's good value for money, but it's just not very good as a scope. And yes, one of these is much cheaper than a USBee AX, though you then lose the time-correlated analog+digital data stream. The 6022be would be great to use in a risky environment, where it could get hosed. Smallest $ loss.
I'm still surprised that the Owon hasn't achieved more traction, all I get in a google search are sales sites, virtually no forum type hits.
The thing is that USB DSO modules have a bad rep to start with, and Owon isn't doing a lot of marketing. Also, while the 1022 is priced affordably, as you move up the VDS series, the 2000/3000 are expensive enough that folks (rightfully) start to think that for a few $$ more, they could just get a DS-1054z.
But yes, I agree that the VDS1022 is definitely overlooked, which is why I ordered one myself, to shed some light on it. Which you have already achieved. There are boatloads of craptastic "USB DSO's", but I think the VDS1022 has some unique value at it's price point.
Just looking back, I paid GBP84 for it last year from a UK ebay seller (there were loads). Only 1 ebay UK hit for it now at GBP212 :o I think you can get it much cheaper (nearer the $100 mark?) through the right China channels.
They're readily available new for $119, on *bay for example.
Just one other thought, as the ADC is direct clocked by the oscillator, it is always sampling flat out at 100MSps. I wonder what it does with all the samples that won't fit at lower speeds - does it have enough intelligence to be able to average them / oversample at lower timebase settings???
That's actually a good thing, and justifies the full-time sin(x)/x curve-fitting (which could lead to serious aliasing problems if the sample rate dipped too low).
I'm sure the FPGA handles the extra samples properly, either decimating, averaging, or aggregating. They perform those tasks really well. The later two, of course, would be preferred. With aggregation providing excellent peak-detect.
There seem to be quite a lot of parallel data signals between the FPGA and ARM so maybe not necessarily SPI.
In that case, you're right. SPI isn't necessary. The FPGA sample-memory block(s) could be mapped into an address space on the ARM chip, and byte-streamed across directly via a DMA channel. That would be even faster than SPI, but probably still not enough to manage the 200MB/sec required for direct streaming. I'd have to check my ARM manuals to make sure what max rates are possible in that scenario. In the designs I've built, the SPI channel gave me all the speed I ever needed.
Thanks for the additional chip insights, and the higher quality pix!
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Owon isn't doing a lot of marketing. Also, while the 1022 is priced affordably, as you move up the VDS series, the 2000/3000 are expensive enough that folks (rightfully) start to think that for a few $$ more, they could just get a DS-1054z.
True, they do just seem to be relying on their retailers, they're even hard to find on the Owon site without a specific part number search :palm: Yes I noticed that, certainly on ebay prices anyway, the higher speed ones are straight into Rigol territory, you'd have to have a pretty specific space reason for NOT wanting the screen!
The FPGA sample-memory block(s) could be mapped into an address space on the ARM chip, and byte-streamed across directly via a DMA channel. That would be even faster than SPI, but probably still not enough to manage the 200MB/sec required for direct streaming. I'd have to check my ARM manuals to make sure what max rates are possible in that scenario. In the designs I've built, the SPI channel gave me all the speed I ever needed.
Knew you were the man for the job :)
I was having another look at the board, there seem to be a few traces between the ARM and that dual high voltage opamp. It might be tied in with the on-chip ADCs/DACs for some purpose... the self-cal function maybe. Too slow for any sort of triggering, the SGM 8292YS8's GBP is only 1.5MHz. I wish we had a schematic!
I'm looking forward to yours turning up now! :clap:
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Yes I noticed that, certainly on ebay prices anyway, the higher speed ones are straight into Rigol territory, you'd have to have a pretty specific space reason for NOT wanting the screen!
Surprisingly, the value proposition just isn't there, at the higher-end. A 4-channel unit, 5M/chan, max 1 GSa/s, and 100 MHz BW, is priced at $400. Considering how much more a Rigol offers, it's hard to see why they'd price a VDS3104 that high. Unless you've always got a laptop handy, and want to add just an acquisition module for travel, a standalone 1054z would almost always make more sense.
The FPGA sample-memory block(s) could be mapped into an address space on the ARM chip, and byte-streamed across directly via a DMA channel. That would be even faster than SPI, but probably still not enough to manage the 200MB/sec required for direct streaming. I'd have to check my ARM manuals to make sure what max rates are possible in that scenario. In the designs I've built, the SPI channel gave me all the speed I ever needed.
Knew you were the man for the job :)
I took a quick look at the Ref Manual for the SiLabs ARM chip, and with it clocked at the max-rated 80 MHz, DMA transfers thru the EBI would run 20-40 MB/sec, depending on # of clock cycles required per transfer (looked like ~3), and if it was an 8-lane or 16-lane data bus.
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Hmm, I guess it all depends whats happening in the FPGA then. I might try tracing out what pins are in use on the ARM (no point at the the FPGA end :palm:).
Just wondering what would happen if it re-made those two cut traces, what magic function........ No not worth the risk :scared: It will be interesting to compare with your board though!
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As requested, the definitive (ish) list of Owon VDS1022 Software shortcuts....
I haven't included keyboard shortcuts (those are documented in the manual). All of the menu's referred to can be accessed by the large 'home' icon on the right hand side, but some of the shortcuts bring up the relevant one directly.
The numbers tie up to the attached Screenshot:
(1) Clicking on the small arrow directly brings up the measurement cursors menu for time and / or voltage.
(2) Clicking on the small '+' icon (only appears when the mouse pointer is in the measurements area) immediately brings up the measurements selection menu.
(3) Clicking on either of the channel numbers immediately brings up the channel settings menu.
(4) Volts/div selection, Clicking brings up a normal popup+slider However if you just hover the mouse over it instead you can use the scroll wheel to increment/decrement directly, much quicker.
(5) Clicking here toggles between DC / AC / GND for that channel.
Additional, hovering in either of the channel boxes also brings up a small 'x' icon to turn off the channel. Clicking in a greyed out channel box will turn it on again. (couldn't show this and (2) at the same time).
(6) Clicking in the 'T' box brings up a slider for trigger position. It's normally easier just to drag the red trigger position flag at the top of the screen, but the 'T' box click also brings up a useful 'Reset' button to restore to the middle.
(7) Time/div... Similar operation to the V/div. Clicking brings up the pop-up/slider but mouse-over and scroll wheel changes the value directly.
(8 ) Clicking toggles the trigger source between Chan1, Chan2 and Ext (trigger marker on right hand edge of screen changes color to match).
(9) Clicking toggles trigger polarity, works on edge, slope and pulse (icon changes to match trigger type). In Video trigger mode it toggles Odd, Even, Line etc.
(10) Click to alter trigger level - Actually it's far easier and more accurate to drag the trigger marker on the right hand side if the screen, but clicking here also brings up two useful buttons to 'Reset' the trigger level and 'Set to 50%'.
Obviously clicking the Trigger button takes you straight to the Trigger menu.
Some, but not all of the above shortcuts may be documented somewhere, but certainly not all (eg. the scroll wheel ones). Avoiding having to navigate the menu system for most things apart from initial setup speeds thing up quite a lot.
Hope it helps...
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Hey Mark_O has your 1022 turned up yet??? (in the spirit of you show me yours and I'll show you mine :) ).
It would be interesting to see the layout differences between the -I and non-I PCBs.
In the analogue area I'm wondering if the U29 footprint (or equivalent) on yours is configured the same way as mine. It's a shared SSOP10 device shared between both channels (the only shared IC in the analogue section). The 2 cut tracks from the Cortex CPU that I mentioned originally went to U29 pins 5 and 6 via RC filters (configured to be outputs from the CPU, inputs to U29), possibly PWM I suppose.
On mine, pins 7 and 9 are linked (Channel 1 side) but the equivalent pins (1 and 3) for Channel 2 aren't. When I added a link the channel 2 voltage noise readings changed. It settled after and Autocal but the noise readings were still higher than before. I tried it a couple of times and autocal was needed after each add/remove. I don't want to try again (or remove the Channel 1 jumper) for fear of losing pads. Pins 10 and 4 are +ve and -ve supplies. Inputs on 1 and 9, outputs on 3 and 7, f/b network to 2 and 8?
A not-fitted part always makes me wonder about additional functionality but not sure what it would have been, a switch? Mux?, another VGA?, Filter? Something controlled by the CPU anyway. Its position is between the gain stages and ADC driver amps. It may have been removed because it degraded cross-talk performance. I haven't turned up any likely candidates based on pinout.
As I say, I'm curious to see if yours is configured the same way.
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Hey Mark_O has your 1022 turned up yet???
Yes, it arrived some time ago.
It would be interesting to see the layout differences between the -I and non-I PCBs.
I agree. However, I've been unable to open mine. :( The jewelers screwdrivers I have are the only one's small enough to fit, but I can't get enough torque to loosen the screws.
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I hope it's living up to expectations.
I agree. However, I've been unable to open mine. :( The jewelers screwdrivers I have are the only one's small enough to fit, but I can't get enough torque to loosen the screws.
Ah, that's frustrating. Self-tap screws do tend to stick in anodized aluminium. A pair of mole grips clamped to the jewelers screwdriver handle often yields results of one sort or another ;D (or the local application of heat :scared: :palm:)
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Ah, that's frustrating.
No kidding. They didn't make it any easier by recessing the screws so deeply in a narrow shaft. I can't get any larger screwdrivers in there. |O
What I really need is something with a smaller shank, but a nice hefty handle. Hmm... something like this:
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OK. That did the trick. Now what did you want to see?
U37 and U9 are gone... replaced by a handful of 0-ohm resistors. So no USB-isolator on this non-I board, or USB1 slowdown.
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You were asking about U29. I don't remember where it was on your board, but on mine it's in a spot I think was empty on your's.
(BTW, my board rev is V1.4, dated 2014.08.04. About a year newer than your V1.2 board. Not surprising, considering how long you've had yours.)
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Ahha, Interesting. Thank you! :) Glad you managed to get it open.
It didn't occur to me that the non-I link components would be underneath the Isolator footprints - Obvious when you think about it! :palm: I wonder if the USB speed actually makes any difference.
You have a fairly easy option to convert yours into a -I if you want to then. Possibly worth it for the ground isolation benefit, not sure how much benefit in terms of noise performance, but they do mention it in the blurb. From the look of it the passives (eg. high voltage cap C95) are already in place.
On mine the U29 footprint is up at the front in the analogue section, near the shield. If you have something fitted I'd be grateful for a part number - if only to understand what it does!
Thanks again for the photos (if you could maybe post one of the analogue end of the board? :)). I'm keen to compare them in detail and see if I can see any improvements that can be retrofitted to the Rev1.2 board.
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Ah, I see the confusion - some major renumbering, why did they use 'U' numbers for inductors too? :palm:
Photo with MY U29 highlighted attached.
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Photo with MY U29 highlighted attached.
Thanks! I just managed to find where U29 was on your board. I was looking all over, in the wrong places.
On my board, that whole circuit has vaporized. R80 and 81 are gone, and R77 and R78, along with caps C69, C70, C77, and C78. Oh, and R73 and R75 too. Sorry about the rotation, but I was trying to landscape it, and get a good perspective. I'm assuming you can rotate it for a better side-by-side comparison.
What may not be immediately obvious is that they did a really sloppy job of aligning the shielding can (just visible at the bottom). It also doesn't fit anywhere near flush with the board, either. :(
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It's easier to see the sloppy shield mounting on this full-board shot, along with the heavy copper ground strapping (that extends around to the rear shielding can as well).
[And, as shown above in Reply 24, U29 on my board is an HC595 serial-in-parallel out shifter, located upper-right here.]
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I wonder if the USB speed actually makes any difference.
In a practical sense, no. Even with USB1, it could forward ~150 captures/sec. Which is faster than they'd be updated on screen. In a theoretical sense, yes. With USB2, up to 3,000 captures/sec could be uploaded to the PC, which could be useful if they were merged into a variable persistence display, for example.
On mine the U29 footprint is up at the front in the analogue section, near the shield. If you have something fitted I'd be grateful for a part number - if only to understand what it does! ... I'm keen to compare them in detail and see if I can see any improvements that can be retrofitted to the Rev1.2 board.
It looks like they did a fair bit of redesign there, and revised the layout quite significantly. And no trace cuts now (that I noticed), for example. I think they did swap in a LOT heftier v-reg for U25, compared to what I recall on your board.
If there's anything else you'd like to see closeups of, let me know before I button it back up again.
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Nice clear photos, thanks very much :) Sorry,your last posts came in after bed time, yes I think that gives me everything I need so you're safe to button it up again.
It looks like they did a fair bit of redesign there, and revised the layout quite significantly. And no trace cuts now (that I noticed), for example. I think they did swap in a LOT heftier v-reg for U25, compared to what I recall on your board.
It looks like a nice tidy clean-up pass. If they've been doing such active work on the board in the past year it looks as if they see some ongoing life in it (hopefully s/w too, although it seems clean now). I see they've kept the RS232 port footprints too :-\
Losing (my) U29 has tidied up the front end nicely so it possibly has lower crosstalk. I wonder what it was... My only thought is that it might have been an analog mux for an abandoned single channel 200MSps experiment. As you say, no trace cuts - the control tracks across the board have been deleted.
Your U29 is new, I must look at what that does. It must be s/w transparent with mine (but maybe different firmware - to free up some GPIOs?).
Interesting regulator change (LM337 -ve?), it looks as if they did have issues with the equivalent reg on mine because there is rework around it - I must look closer look at noise / temp to see if it is worth a (slightly messy) retrofit.
It's a shame about the twisted shield, I don't think the PCB slot sizes are big enough to twist that far so it looks as if they may have needed to remove the tab at that end (misplaced hole?) and replace it with the copper strap. It hopefully doesn't have any performance impact anyway. Maybe they've just bent the tab up, resulting in the poorer board spacing, might be possible to rectify (after warranty?)
In a practical sense, no. Even with USB1, it could forward ~150 captures/sec. Which is faster than they'd be updated on screen. In a theoretical sense, yes. With USB2, up to 3,000 captures/sec could be uploaded to the PC, which could be useful if they were merged into a variable persistence display, for example.
Ah, good point, I wonder if it enumerates as USB1 or USB2? It's hopefully possible to tell.
I really appreciate your taking the time to do this Mark, I owe you one :)
EDIT: Ah, got it now! My U29 was the mux to select the Video trigger source (obvious when I saw the track difference on yours :)). hence the jumper on only one side of the footprint, I must have partially coupled the channels when I tried to jumper the other side. The s/w pops up a message saying Video trigger only supported on Channel 1 when you try to set it to Chan 2. It must have compromised performance too much in other areas - a fair trade-off. Glad I understand it now anyway. :)
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Nice clear photos, thanks very much :)
You're welcome. They're not tack sharp, since I did them handheld with available light. But they came out pretty decent.
If they've been doing such active work on the board in the past year it looks as if they see some ongoing life in it (hopefully s/w too, although it seems clean now). I see they've kept the RS232 port footprints too :-\
I agree about the ongoing product life. From the S/N difference, they may have sold ~10k units between yours and mine, and expect to continue to do more. No way to really know about the RS232, but they may have designed that in as an alternate to USB, for some countries where RS232 is still more prevalent (old laptops).
Interesting regulator change (LM337 -ve?),
Yep.
It's a shame about the twisted shield, I don't think the PCB slot sizes are big enough to twist that far so it looks as if they may have needed to remove the tab at that end (misplaced hole?) and replace it with the copper strap.
I'm less concerned with the twisting, and more with the fact that in sections, there's more than a 2mm gap away from the PCB. But looking at it again more closely, I now see that the can itself is basically defective. I.e., it's not just that it isn't fully seated on the board, with the tabs not inserted all the way (though that is true on the top... the back is perfect). But the bent part of the metal lip on the side away from the BNCs is longer/taller on the right than it is on the left! So SOME gap was going to be inevitable.
Ah, good point, I wonder if it enumerates as USB1 or USB2? It's hopefully possible to tell.
I am sure it enumerates as USB2 (HighSpeed). It's a simple voltage indication on the USB lines, and there's no reason at all for it not to.
I really appreciate your taking the time to do this Mark, I owe you one :)
No problem at all, Chris. Nice to have multiple eyes on an analysis. I'm really glad you did all the heavy-lifting on this one.
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A quick thank you for the teardown and review! I bought two of the Owon VDS1022 scopes (non-isolated version); I removed the 8x 0R resistors and installed the two isolation chips (ADUM3160BRWZ, DCP020505U) and my scopes are now isolated so I'm not risking my computers each time I use them. I really like the VDS1022 scopes; the software is great as is the portability and desk footprint; I rarely use my bench scopes anymore unless I need to look at signals faster than 25MHz. Having them isolated now is a nice plus.
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Ah, I wondered if anyone had actually done that (there was always just a chance that there might have been something hidden somewhere to stop it). Thanks for reporting back! :)
I guess that answers our USB1.1 vs USB2 data transfer speed question, Mark.
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I just ordered the Owon 3104 4-channel 100MHz unit - will report when it turns up.
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We need an emoticon for 'Rubs hands in anticipation'. Looking forward to the teardown ;D
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Thanks for the quick teardown. :)
I wouldn't say it looks bad inside by any means, a neat layout. I do see what you mean about the clearance on the LAN isolation though - the clearances on the 1022 USB isolation are rather better implemented. There was good attention to proper clock routing and termination there too.
The self defeating warranty label is certainly to your benefit ;D There was nothing sealing the 1022, less IP to protect I guess.
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Maybe a little hard on your countrymen, yes the PCB could be better cleaned though. At least the joints are nice and shiny.
I'm not surprised it heats up, they're squeezing a lot of performance into the same small case. I've noticed that noise level varies with length of USB lead on the 1022 (admittedly a cheap ebay 3m one so actually I should be surprised that it works at all with the voltage drop! :palm:). I may experiment with a separate isolated DC supply at some stage, that certainly made a difference on the low speed 16bit Picoscope that I use for audio measurements (that's a very different noise floor requirement of course).
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If you are asking about the ones with the VDS1022, then yes it came with two P6060 60MHz switchable x10/x1 probes. You can find pictures on ebay if you search for P6060, but these came in black rather than grey. They seem to be perfectly adequate for the job and are nicely insulated at the BNC end (to match the isolation).
The software allows you to select x1, x10, x100 and x1000 probe attenuation factors. :)
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Ah, just like these (the P6060s):
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-BNC-60MHz-Oscilloscope-Probe-Clip-P6060-X1-X10-600V-/161805210779?hash=item25ac57949b:g:An8AAOSwgQ9V3JuV (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Professional-BNC-60MHz-Oscilloscope-Probe-Clip-P6060-X1-X10-600V-/161805210779?hash=item25ac57949b:g:An8AAOSwgQ9V3JuV)
Edit: Though obviously new ones! :D
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Haha, yes I noticed that - chalk one up for ground isolation! ;D
Edit: I just captured and added the relevant image for future generations, it is a bit of a classic. :)
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I guess that answers our USB1.1 vs USB2 data transfer speed question, Mark.
Yep.
I also noticed that there is currently an eBay Seller with 5 of these units (VDS1022, non I) on sale, for just $84 (shipped):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121825404806 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/121825404806)
These normally run $110-120.
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Just received the 3014.
Initial impressions :
Software not nearly as bad as I expected - UI has room for improvement but not bad as Chinese SW goes.
A few minor controls are very badly implemented (e.g. trig pulse width & holdoff).
There are key shortcuts for viatal stuff like X & Y scaling, but could do with a lot more.
Screen update speed pretty good but some controls are a little sluggish.
Uses "wrong" Usb connector (A) , and comes with a "Y" lead in case you need to pull power from 2 ports ( draws approx 880mA)
Will do a video soon but I have a shed to build...
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Weather too bad for shed-building so...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO712DvGAKA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO712DvGAKA)
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Nice review Mike :-+
As you say, it would be nice to have some more keyboard shortcuts (though I wouldn't put it past them to have forgotten to document some). Here are some screen shortcuts, some documented, some not, which you might not have found yet:
As requested, the definitive (ish) list of Owon VDS1022 Software shortcuts....
I haven't included keyboard shortcuts (those are documented in the manual). All of the menu's referred to can be accessed by the large 'home' icon on the right hand side, but some of the shortcuts bring up the relevant one directly.
The numbers tie up to the attached Screenshot:
(1) Clicking on the small arrow directly brings up the measurement cursors menu for time and / or voltage.
(2) Clicking on the small '+' icon (only appears when the mouse pointer is in the measurements area) immediately brings up the measurements selection menu.
(3) Clicking on either of the channel numbers immediately brings up the channel settings menu.
(4) Volts/div selection, Clicking brings up a normal popup+slider However if you just hover the mouse over it instead you can use the scroll wheel to increment/decrement directly, much quicker.
(5) Clicking here toggles between DC / AC / GND for that channel.
Additional, hovering in either of the channel boxes also brings up a small 'x' icon to turn off the channel. Clicking in a greyed out channel box will turn it on again. (couldn't show this and (2) at the same time).
(6) Clicking in the 'T' box brings up a slider for trigger position. It's normally easier just to drag the red trigger position flag at the top of the screen, but the 'T' box click also brings up a useful 'Reset' button to restore to the middle.
(7) Time/div... Similar operation to the V/div. Clicking brings up the pop-up/slider but mouse-over and scroll wheel changes the value directly.
(8 ) Clicking toggles the trigger source between Chan1, Chan2 and Ext (trigger marker on right hand edge of screen changes color to match).
(9) Clicking toggles trigger polarity, works on edge, slope and pulse (icon changes to match trigger type). In Video trigger mode it toggles Odd, Even, Line etc.
(10) Click to alter trigger level - Actually it's far easier and more accurate to drag the trigger marker on the right hand side if the screen, but clicking here also brings up two useful buttons to 'Reset' the trigger level and 'Set to 50%'.
Obviously clicking the Trigger button takes you straight to the Trigger menu.
Some, but not all of the above shortcuts may be documented somewhere, but certainly not all (eg. the scroll wheel ones). Avoiding having to navigate the menu system for most things apart from initial setup speeds thing up quite a lot.
Hope it helps...
EDIT: A few more shortcuts:
- <Space> brings up (or closes) the last menu selected (like clicking the Menu button)
- When in numeric popups (V/div, T/div, number key will cycle through values for that number. eg. Pressing 2 will cycle 2us 20us, 200us, 2ms etc.
- It will take the first letter of a menu item to select, eg. Trigger mode will take E, S, V, P etc. This seems to happen even after you've shifted focus. Shame it doesn't do the same thing for numerical inputs on the trigger holdoff.
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Hi folks,
Didn't know about this scope.
I would like to know if it is better than hantek, even with the aftermarket software?
Greetings
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I would like to know if it is better than hantek, even with the aftermarket software?
It all depends on what you want to use it for. Some things, yes. Other things, no. It's not black & white.
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That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.
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That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.
No, Chris. Just grumpy at 4am maybe :o, when someone can't be bothered to read anything that has been posted here. After all the effort that has been invested by folks like you, doing all the work to provide it for them. :palm:
The sad fact is that even the best aftermarket software in the world isn't going to change the fundamental capabilities of the hardware, which have been shown to be dramatically better on the Owon than the Hantek.
OTOH, if what someone needs is a long-duration data streamer, the Owon is simply incapable of that. So the Hantek wins there, and that's all I use mine for.
For others, the relatively small increment in price for the Owon may be an insurmountable hurdle, and better to have the Hantek than nothing at all (and benefit from the 3rd party software, generously made available at no cost). Because that's really the niche that the Hantek fills... better than nothing at all. (But such folks need to be prepared to pay that price many times over, dealing with the handicaps of actually using the Hantek.)
Is that better? >:D
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Hello Mark_O
First of all, I would like to thank you for answer and tell you that I actually read most of the thread. However, since my background aren't eletronics, as you might guess, I didn't understand most of it (maybe I should apologize for that :-// ???
Let me explain you, I'm starting to move with eletronics, and what I want is to be able to control microprocessores and actuators/transducers... That is why I want to buy a USB oscillscope because being it a hobby, I don't wan't to spend a fortune on it. I don't mind spending an extra 20€ or something beyond the hantek value, what I would like to know is if these extra 20€ are worth it...
PS: maybe you should get some sleep :-+
Greetings
That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.
No, Chris. Just grumpy at 4am maybe :o, when someone can't be bothered to read anything that has been posted here. After all the effort that has been invested by folks like you, doing all the work to provide it for them. :palm:
The sad fact is that even the best aftermarket software in the world isn't going to change the fundamental capabilities of the hardware, which have been shown to be dramatically better on the Owon than the Hantek.
OTOH, if what someone needs is a long-duration data streamer, the Owon is simply incapable of that. So the Hantek wins there, and that's all I use mine for.
For others, the relatively small increment in price for the Owon may be an insurmountable hurdle, and better to have the Hantek than nothing at all (and benefit from the 3rd party software, generously made available at no cost). Because that's really the niche that the Hantek fills... better than nothing at all. (But such folks need to be prepared to pay that price many times over, dealing with the handicaps of actually using the Hantek.)
Is that better? >:D
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Hi Mark. Ah, the dreaded 4am, never a good time (whichever end of the day it's tacked onto) :(
I agree, it's frustrating when all the information is there on a plate (not forgetting your significant contribution too) but not made use of.
Good point on the long duration streaming, Owon really could to do it with much better USB resilience given the device's greater intelligence and buffering capability compared to the Hantek. Thankfully not an issue for general use.
Glad you're ok anyway. :)
Chris
EDIT: @mecanico, I think the last paragraph of Mark's last reply addressed your question very clearly.
P.S. I've just seen the additional information on your mechanical background in your Beginners thread, so maybe it would be helpful to re-read the thread a couple of times while googling a few terms if you don't understand them. I understand that you are on a learning curve (aren't we all!).
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Yes, I understood that Makr has the opinion that the owon is better, however I don't know what do you mean by streaming, is that the amount of data that is shown in the screen? SHouldn't that be limited by the MHz? Btw, what is the isolation all about? I read something about burning up the PC?
Greetings
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We seem to be doing a lot of talking between this and your Beginners thread :D
Long duration streaming is where you want to collect a lot of data (usually many Mbytes) over a longer period of time (a bit like a data-logger). It streams the data to a large data buffer or file on the PC. The Hantek effectively has to do this all the time because it has no internal memory and no intelligence - this is also the reason that people have problems with it when working at higher speeds, it is very dependent on being able to get the data through the USB interface fast enough, it is left to the PC S/W too to decide when a trigger event has happened. In comparison, the Owon has intelligence and internal triggering which means that it only has to send the small amount of data to actually display on the screen, meaning that it can easily work with USB1.1 (also a reason that it is available with USB isolation - it is really difficult to isolate USB2). Unfortunately is also means that Owon have been 'lazy' in not implementing streaming, it can display at low timebases (and of course trigger and capture screenshots) but it doesn't have a streaming to PC mode for large amounts of data over long durations.
P.S. I have answered you USB isolation question in your Beginners thread.
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Good point on the long duration streaming, Owon really could to do it with much better USB resilience given the device's greater intelligence and buffering capability compared to the Hantek.
The Owon is vastly better as a scope than the Hantek. However it's not nearly as good when it comes to the API, if you need to roll your own functionality. Beyond being able to stream, the Hantek's interface is very direct, and has even been reverse-engineered so you could "talk" to it over USB on any platform (Linux, Mac, Android, etc.), from just about any device.
The Owon is more limited, and its driver for Windows doesn't actually send either a stream OR a buffer of data to your App. Instead, it puts it in a file(!), and you have to go retrieve it from there. Even on their higher-end models with 5MSa/channel. There were some other gotchas I discussed with their engineers last year, but I'd have to dig up my notes.
However, none of that matters at all, as long as you're running their App (which I consider to be quite good), and have a Windows-based platform to run it on.
For anyone just getting started with electronics exploration, I think there's enough to be learned without constantly having to ask yourself why your instrument is doing this or that strange thing. And can't do some things at all. It just adds another obstacle to the learning process.
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Great answers! Thank you very much!
Owon it will be!
Greetins
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Just a quick note to say thanks very much for this thread, together with the photos and the discussion it has given me all the info I needed to leave the 'analogue era'!
David
:-+
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Welcome to the forum David.
Always nice to know that these threads help people even after the discussion has died down. Let us know how you get on. :-+
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Hey! New to the site and fairly new to the hobby as well. Been messing with arduinos for about 6 months or so. Thanks for posting all this info, after opening mine up and doing some googling i found this thread.
I just received this scope from eBay. I decided to open it and have a look at the internals before using it. Found some issues that got missed by QC, maybe they don't confirm the component placements. Anyway, R55,56,58,59 moved around when they were soldered. It also appears that R90 and R103 may be missing from the bottom, unless these have been omitted for a reason. Also the shield around the inputs doesnt go all the way to the board, there is about a 2mm gap, not sure if that matters or not. The ones in the PCB pics here show them in place though. I'll try to post some pictures if i can.
I'm thinking ill probably just return it but in the off chance i decide its better to just attempt to repair it can someone post a hi-res pic of each of those locations? Unfortunately the ones already posted here aren't clear enough to see the resistor values.
How do i post pictures?
EDIT: I did try it out but after opening and checking it. It seemed to work fine but I was concerned about the "missing" and "moved around" resistors. I have since learned that Gyro installed the resistors I had thought were missing and on closer inspection the moved resistors appear to be a factory mod.
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Here's some pictures, I realized the size of the pictures was the reason they wouldn't post.
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Anyway, R55,56,58,59 moved around when they were soldered.
My "quess" is that this is designed modification if you look more carefully this circuit and what have changed.
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My "quess" is that this is designed modification if you look more carefully this circuit and what have changed.
You think so? The ones missing on the back that would make sense but these...I'm not so sure. The resistor sticking out of the side of R59 doesnt even appear to be attached to anything. There is no pad, unless they have scratched out a new pad underneath there.
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Hi,
You didn't think it was worth testing it before opening it up? That sort of thing can give you problems with the seller if you disturb tamper seals etc.
From what I can see:
- The resistors around R55-R59 look like deliberate board mods with additional resistors added between nodes and ground plane.
- R90 and R103 are used to connect the USB connector ground to the main ground plane. You have purchased the 1022I USB isolation version so these resistors wouldn't be fitted (you shouldn't expect every footprint on a PCB to be populated on every option).
- The small gap under the screening can shouldn't have any significant effect, I think Mark_O noticed the same on his unit, I can't remember the reason now.
It would be silly to return it or start attacking it with a soldering iron until you've actually tested it to see if it works. You're also going to run into problems with the seller if you tell him you want to return it because you opened it up! :palm: Put it back together, install it and see if it works - please try doing that and report back.
P.S. There is a downside of the "Don't turn it on, take it apart" mentality on this forum when adopted by the inexperienced, sorry.
EDIT: Yes I suspect that the resistor to the side of R59 is soldered to a bare area on the groundplane.
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Hi,
You didn't think it was worth testing it before opening it up? That sort of thing can give you problems with the seller if you disturb tamper seals etc.
Of course I tried it and there are no tamper seals. But just because it seems to work doesn't necessarily mean it's working properly or going to keep working as it is. Or maybe some setting i try in the future doesn't work. Although since this is related to the USB connection that's probably unlikely.
- R90 and R103 are used to connect the USB connector ground to the main ground plane. You have purchased the 1022I USB isolation version so these resistors wouldn't be fitted (you shouldn't expect every footprint on a PCB to be populated on every option).
I didn't expect the board to be fully populated, there are lots of other areas not populated. The only reason I was curious about these two resistors is the pictures you originally posted show these two in place and it is the 1022I model if I'm not mistaken. All the iso chips are populated and I believe you confirmed it was the 1022I model in your post.
P.S. There is a downside of the "Don't turn it on, take it apart" mentality on this forum when adopted by the inexperienced, sorry.
EDIT: Yes I suspect that the resistor to the side of R59 is soldered to a bare area on the groundplane.
I have ordered Chinese electronics that have had loose/extra parts and balls of solder rolling around inside. Lots of poor soldering and cold joints as well. There is also a ton of counterfeit product floating around. Then there's real product that's supposed to be trashed because it failed QC but ends up going out the back door of the factory. Then someone does a shoty repair or just sells it and you end up with a sub par product. I just wanted to make sure everything looked ok and it looked like a legitimate board before plugging the thing into my USB port.
Thanks for your reply though, on closer inspection it does appear its intentional. Hopefully it was the Owon factory that did the mod. I'll do some tests and post back if I have any issues.
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This is the 1kHz wave form from the signal output on the scope. Looks pretty good to me, not a whole lot of noise. Maybe I was worrying about nothing.
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Here's line voltage AC in the house. Everything seems to be fine with this unit. :phew: I'm also very impressed with the software UI, it's better than I expected. The measurement tools are pretty helpful and quite easy to use. Seems like the software has quite a few useful features. So far I haven't found anything really annoying to use.
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Of course I tried it and there are no tamper seals. But just because it seems to work doesn't necessarily mean it's working properly or going to keep working as it is. Or maybe some setting i try in the future doesn't work. Although since this is related to the USB connection that's probably unlikely.
Ah, ok, you did test it, good. From your initial post it really didn't read that way, especially when you were talking about 'just returning it or trying to repair it'.
I didn't expect the board to be fully populated, there are lots of other areas not populated. The only reason I was curious about these two resistors is the pictures you originally posted show these two in place and it is the 1022I model if I'm not mistaken. All the iso chips are populated and I believe you confirmed it was the 1022I model in your post.
My mistake - it was actually me who added those resistors (and forgot). I like to provide a discharge path, even on Isolated equipment, if only to avoid the risk of static buildup. I used 2 x 10M resistors if I remember correctly. Purely a personal choice though.
I have ordered Chinese electronics that have had loose/extra parts and balls of solder rolling around inside. Lots of poor soldering and cold joints as well. There is also a ton of counterfeit product floating around. Then there's real product that's supposed to be trashed because it failed QC but ends up going out the back door of the factory. Then someone does a shoty repair or just sells it and you end up with a sub par product. I just wanted to make sure everything looked ok and it looked like a legitimate board before plugging the thing into my USB port.
I'm glad to say that no one appears to have counterfeited the Owon, there probably isn't enough margin in it. They are pretty keenly priced given the BOM cost. I though you said you had tested it before taking it apart, that would imply plugging it into your USB port. ;) I understand your motivation though.
Thanks for your reply though, on closer inspection it does appear its intentional. Hopefully it was the Owon factory that did the mod. I'll do some tests and post back if I have any issues.
You're welcome, I hope I haven't put you off posting here, we're generally a friendly bunch (even me :D). Yes that would be a factory mod. Owon do seem to be pretty skilled (or at least cunning) in their board mods. On my earlier rev board they managed to correct a swap in the USB signals by diagonally crossing two 0603 resistors on adjacent pads - something that would be taxing one-off, let alone on a production line!
P.S. I've just seen your trace captures, yes that looks nice, no cause for concern there. I think you'll be happy with it. If you're still worried about noise performance then you could try replicating some of the tests that I carried out for rf-loop on page 1. Hopefully yours, being a later rev board, might be quieter still.
...and yes, the UI is surprisingly good (especially for Owon, who've taken some flack previously). You might want to look at the shortcuts I identified too.
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I've just looked closer at your Line-voltage trace (276V P-P... ok 100Vrms). Please be very careful with that sort of measurement, I know it's USB isolated, but that doesn't mean that you won't get a very nasty belt of the case if you get the Live and Neutral swapped! :scared:
Be aware also that the probes are low cost (but reasonably good quality) Chinese ones. They're not designed (Edit:or approved) for use on high energy circuits - domestic mains counts in this context.
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Ah, ok, you did test it, good. From your initial post it really didn't read that way, especially when you were talking about 'just returning it or trying to repair it'.
I though you said you had tested it before taking it apart, that would imply plugging it into your USB port. ;) I understand your motivation though.
I did take it apart before testing it and besides those resistors everything looked OK. At that point, I didn't think what I found was hazardous to my usb port, so I plugged it in and gave it a try. It did seem to work fine but I wasn't sure about those mods so that's why I posted.
You're welcome, I hope I haven't put you off posting here, we're generally a friendly bunch (even me :D).
Not at all, I appreciate the help and I'm happy to not have to bother with a return. It's my fault anyway, it wasn't a great post. The original post was better but I think that was the fourth time I had retyped it out. Previous attempts to submit it didn't work because my picture files were too large. Lost the post three times before i figured it out |O Sigh, anyway...I've been browsing these forums for awhile now as a guest, tons of useful information. Hadn't had a need to post anything yet because almost every question I had came up in a search.
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Previous attempts to submit it didn't work because my picture files were too large. Lost the post three times before i figured it out |O
Been there, done that! :)
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I've just looked closer at your Line-voltage trace (276V P-P... ok 100Vrms). Please be very careful with that sort of measurement, I know it's USB isolated, but that doesn't mean that you won't get a very nasty belt of the case if you get the Live and Neutral swapped! :scared:
Be aware also that the probes are low cost (but reasonably good quality) Chinese ones. They're not designed (Edit:or approved) for use on high energy circuits - domestic mains counts in this context.
:D Thanks for the concern. The laptop has an un-grounded cord, just as an extra precaution I pulled the AC charger anyway so it was on battery. My test leads are marked 600VDC, which i would never trust them for...but 100VAC rms i figured they'd be fine. I considered the case but neither the case, nor myself, nor anything within my reach is grounded. I also made 100% sure that the 10x prob was actually 10x. I double checked the specs on the Owon and measuring 276p-p is well within the range so long as you use the 10x. I also fused the test lead connection with a 0.5A fuse just incase something went wrong inside the Owon.
I suppose it was slightly risky but you'll notice the wave form is 100vac rms and 50Hz....kind of an odd ball utility so i couldn't resist taking a look at it. ;)
I did say in my first post I'm a newb but to put your mind at ease I'm a certified electrician who specializes in building controls and automation. I've taken a few classes in electronics, used scopes, etc. However it's been about 6 years since I've been to school. And as far as electronics goes it was basic stuff and its been a long time. Not a whole lot of digital stuff either.
I'm always installing all these PLCs and other various controllers, networks, etc. and I've always wanted some in depth knowledge of how the electronics actually work. I've finally found the time to get into it and so far I'm really loving it.
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That's good, glad to know that you know your way around mains. :-+
Always worth flagging anyway just in case someone really new is reading later.
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Received my 1022(non I) this morning - cost including p&p was just under £56 from China via 'the bay' and took about a fortnight to get here.
So far I have:
1. De-fluxed the PCB,
2. Re-soldered the front-end screening to be flush with the deck
3. Added the USB isolation chip
I'm still waiting for the PSU isolation chip to arrive, had to order it from Germany in the end as UK prices were rather silly or had huge p&p charges!
I started looking at scopes when my 30+ year old Hitachi began falling sick, so I needed another scope to help fix it and the 1022 was the obvious choice. I took a look at the various digital scopes and their software and was on the point of buying the Hantek when I found this forum. Having read this thread it was obvious that the 1022 was a no-brainer.
Given the price, the 1022 has vastly more functionality than the £48 LCD kits you can find and is ideal for the mainly LF/MF RF analogue stuff which I deal with - I particularly like the variable persistence facility. In all probability I will end up using this more than the old CRT scope, with most of the processing being done on-board, the host PC requirements are quite light - so you could just take the 1022, probes and CD to use with somebody elses PC. It is also refreshing not having to wait 15 or 20 minutes for the scope to stabilse, or nurse a hernia heaving a CRT scope around !
The only thing I would like is a short-cut to the Self-Cal function, I can't seem to find that. Other than that, very pleased with what is a very useable scope for a laughably small amount of money.
Thanks again to all who contributed to this thread, it was invaluable.
David
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Well that was pretty good going for your first morning of ownership! :-+
Interesting that you're going straight for USB isolation, mind you non-isolated for <£56 is a bit of a no-brainer. It will probably be helpful for others with their buying decisions if you can document your conversion cost... and maybe parts suppliers.
I'll look for a self-cal shortcut, I haven't found one yet.
Check the Owon site too to make sure you've got the latest version of the S/W.
http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175 (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175)
Glad we've been some help anyway. :)
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The price difference between the VDS1022 and isolated VDS1022I is only 17£. Is it not better to buy the isolated version than modifying the non isolated?
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Re: the isolating components, I couldn't agree more - the extra £17 for the isolated version is well worth it - however being a PC scope newbie, light only dawned after I had ordered the non-isolated unit.
By the time I have finished, my modified unit will have cost pretty much the same as the (I) version - still its only a bit of soldering!
As for parts, the USB data isolator was easy - next day delivery for £5.71 from radio spares - RS stock code 7969041
The tricky component was the power supply isolator (DCP020505U); it was either a very silly price or had the wrong pin configuration, or occasionally both. In the end I sourced one from a supplier in Germany via 'the bay'. Delivered cost is 12.90 Euros, ie around £10, item number 311151940664. There were a couple still available a few minutes ago when I checked, mine is due in a couple of days.
So as you can see, I 'saved' the princely sum of £1.29 . . . Barbados, here I come :)
Thanks for the heads-up regarding the software Gyro, worth mentioning, but as it happened I had taken a look at the software for the two contenders, so it was sitting here on the PC before the 1022 even left China - how sad is that!
The only thing I would add for the benefit of anyone considering the upgrade (and I quite possibly missed this when reading the thread) is to mention that 6 of the 8 zero ohm resistors which need to be removed live on the topside of the board - the other 2 can be found on the under side. Obvious when you know, but it had me scratching my head for a couple of minutes. :palm:
David
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Using these devices on a PC oscilloscope is a design mistake.
I'm not sure I would agree with that. The purpose of USB Isolation is to break the ground loop with the PC / mains ground and so to provide ground protection and improved noise rejection.
It's very rare that you would actually want to float the scope ground at an significantly high voltage... and if so, you would need to take other special precautions like insulating the case. The DC-DC is rated for the SELV that would apply in safe usage and has a healthy HiPot rating (as does the USB isolator). You need to start looking very carefully at PCB creepage and clearance to think of using a scope above SELV.
@znww5: Thanks for posting the costings. Yes probably not worth the cost saving but very useful for retrofitting isolation at a later date (you just happen to have done it rather sooner than normal! ;D ).
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I've noticed that there's a new version of the VDS1022 PC software on the Owon site, Version 1.0.23, dated 29th April 2016 (the previous one was version 1.0.11). I've downloaded and tried it and it seems to work fine. I haven't noticed any specific changes, although the response of the menu system definitely seems faster. Unfortunately there is no revision history provided.
It's always worth keeping a copy of the previous version installation file of course.
http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175 (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175)
P.S. I've also noticed that the s/w supports SCPI protocol for remote control, not sure how long that's been there.
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Nice review! Btw, will this small oscilloscope be OK to measure and design simple audio amps? will be OK to check amplifier stages distortions and see how looks the amplifier wave?
i used some old tektronix in the past, but i sell all my units because money problems. Now i want to purchase it again but as im not in the USA impossible to purchase used ones from ebay, so im looking some small (to save shippings fee to Argentina) that help me with simple audio gears :)
Thanks in advance.
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Thanks samsagaz :)
Yes sure, it will do a fine job visually checking audio signals for distortion, in much the same way as you would use an analogue scope (not sure if the Tek ones that you were referring to were analogue or digital). You can look for clipping, crossover distortions etc. If you get the USB isolated 'i' version you can avoid ground loops too.
You should note however that it is an 8 bit resolution scope (as are most DSOs, Rigol etc.) so you can't expect to measure low distortions using the FFT function. For high resolution distortion measurements you would need a 12 (or better, 16) bit scope. These are obviously in a different price range, but you could maybe also consider the Digilent Analog Discovery which I think is 12 bit. You could improve this situation by building a notch filter (Twin-T or similar) to attenuate the fundamental frequency of your test signal, so that you only see at the distortion products.
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OWON also have a 12bit scope (new in the range).
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yeah, but dont have too much money :)
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have just bought one of these largely based on this review (being the only one I found)
OK it works BUT!!!!! any timebase setting slower than 50mS/div gets the following warning from the trigger system.......
"When the time per divider longer than 100ms, trigger will be set default as auto mode."
And sure enough it wont lock the display just like an untriggered waveform in auto, even single shot doesn't work!! In a word, useless!!
I have mailed Owon today, if I ever get a reply I will be sure to let you know.
This is not mentioned in there product specs or manuals anywhere.
So Sad, did I just half waste the £90 it cost me :(
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Hi Roger and welcome to the forum,
Sorry if I missed something in my review. I haven't had cause to use mine at 100ms/div or slower and have never seen that message. I've just tried it and seen what you mean. No one else seems to have flagged it either. I can't think why that would be, clearly not a handling speed problem, the main concern on USB scopes is whether they can reliably handle their maximum rated speeds. I've just been back through my collection of earlier s/w versions (never throw anything away) and it doesn't appear to be a newly introduced issue.
At least at those sort of timebase settings you shouldn't have any difficulty following the trace, I agree though that the absence of single trigger at those settings is an issue. It does sound as if it is for your application.
The last s/w version that I have seen was released at the end of April (one thing that would be helpful would be a revision history since it jumped a few versions since the previous one), so it appears to be still in active development (and they have fixed an issue I reported just before Christmas). Please do report back on what the respond with. I may well report it too, strength in numbers and I don't like unnecessary restrictions.
P.S. I understand that you're a bit p**'d off, but the "!!!!WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!!!" seems a bit over the top, don't you think?
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Isn't this just going into Roll mode, the addition of Roll in the UI having been lost in translation? :-//
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Could be. I only tried the S/W setting with the scope unplugged as I'm not in the 'playroom' at the moment.
Edit: It would still be helpful if the single trigger worked, I can't think of a reason why it couldn't.
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Could be. I only tried the S/W setting with the scope unplugged as I'm not in the 'playroom' at the moment.
Edit: It would still be helpful if the single trigger worked, I can't think of a reason why it couldn't.
Yes, of course.
It still might if selected before slowing the timebase. This you need to check.
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Nope, it does lock it out.
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Nope, it does lock it out.
Ok, if that's how the UI works on this DSO, do we now call it user error, a different implementation of triggering in the slow timebases or a bug? :-//
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Hmm, good question. I don't know how other DSOs do it. :-// It doesn't seem like something to get all emotional about though.
I've just tried sending a question to the direct email that Owon were using to communicate with me when I reported a bug back in January. Maybe they will come back with something, or maybe even come in with a technical support rather than sales post, who knows.
Edit: Actually I do know how Picoscope do it, they offer a choice of scroll or refresh display, but they're in a different price bracket.
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Hello, thanks for the replies! I think WARNING is fair given the scope has a fault!
If the triggering system doesn't work above 50mS/div it should say so in the spec.
Thank you for your rollback testing, this was most unexpected to me as I cannot see why they have a problem.
It is not unusual to use single shot at low speeds to capture events, even my 35yo 465 will happily trigger at its slowest timebase setting of 500mS/div and very useful too however its not a DSO.
Roll mode if you like to call it that is of no use whatsoever for random event capture unless you want to stare at the screen forever AND the display is still not precisely located around the event (due to variable human reaction time!).
Here's hoping they can fix it :)
Roger
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Hi Roger,
I guess it depends on situation, for some things a chart recorder type display might be preferable, personally I would prefer both options, I use an old Picoscope ADC216 for such applications (mainly because it's 16 bit so more applicable to slower, more accurate trend measurements).
I think WARNING is fair given the scope has a fault!
I guess we'll agree to differ on that one ;) (edit): A warning sure, but "WARNING WARNING WARNING" (four dozen exclamation marks deleted)? Nah. Coming into a forum shouting and stomping doesn't usually create a good first impression. It doesn't look like a 'fault' as such, more an implementation decision, as tautech implied. Faults don't normally put up explanatory messages. As I said before, I'd like to see single trace trigger work, in conjunction with trigger position obviously so that you could see pre, post trigger information or both.
I had a reply from the previously helpful lady at Owon this morning...
I'm sorry,this feature is temporarily does not support, I have put this question feedback to our engineer,we will try to improve.
Thank you !
The 'temporarily' gives some grounds for hope. :)
Chris
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Coming into a forum shouting and stomping doesn't usually create a good first impression.
I really couldn't care less what you think, I only signed in here to warn others who may be considering this product. Ban me or delete me I couldn't give a shit!!
As for you attitude that it may not be faulty, I hope you enjoy your next purchase that doesnt work to its published specification in some way that's important to you!
Goodbye and good riddance.
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At least I remained calm in the face of someone apparently citing my review as the reason for 'wasting' 45 quid and also tried to help you by submitting my own request to Owon in support of yours.
Maybe you could have hung around and contributed something positive to the forum.
Such is life I guess. ::)
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At least I remained calm in the face of someone apparently citing my review as the reason for 'wasting' 45 quid and also tried to help you by submitting my own request to Owon in support of yours.
Maybe you could have hung around and contributed something positive to the forum.
Such is life I guess. ::)
Right you did too. :-+
You can point some in the right direction but they just don't get it. ::)
My hint was Roll mode and Google would've provided him with the explanation he need to understand a modern DSO.
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@gyro
I cancelled an Hantek 6022 order and bought this DSO after reading your review and others comments. You'll be responsible for my choice too as I'll have the best DSO money can buy in this price range. ;)
Keep your contributions, they have helped many.
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Thank you all for all the hard work to create this review. I just ordered 1022I and can't wait to get my hands on it.
I'm very surprised how little information is available about that osciloscope. :) if I run into anything not yet covered in the thread I will post it.
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@Glapsvin and jopereira,
Welcome to you both.Yes, please do report back on your experiences. It's always good to be able to add to the combined store of knowledge. As you say, apart from this thread there is very little information out there so the more feedback the better. :)
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I am sure that the Owon USB scope is miles better, faster and more robust, than the SmartScope from LabNation!
See my separate thread about the SmartScope from LabNation.
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!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have just bought one of these largely based on this review (being the only one I found)
OK it works BUT!!!!! any timebase setting slower than 50mS/div gets the following warning from the trigger system.......
"When the time per divider longer than 100ms, trigger will be set default as auto mode."
And sure enough it wont lock the display just like an untriggered waveform in auto, even single shot doesn't work!! In a word, useless!!
I have mailed Owon today, if I ever get a reply I will be sure to let you know.
This is not mentioned in there product specs or manuals anywhere.
So Sad, did I just half waste the £90 it cost me :(
You could always try screen capture software, which seems to work quite well, at least for mypurposes
Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk
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Hi goldjohn,
Sadly fourtytwo has long since left the building but your idea is a good one... although you would need to be there to witness the event.
You've reminded me to give Owon another poke (mentioning eevblog of course) about adding slower than 100ms/div single triggering. We'll see if there's any news, it's good to keep the pressure on anyway.
Edit: I get the impression that you're not a fan of the LabNation SmartScope, Pascal. :( Maybe it would be useful to start a thread on it. :)
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Quick question about this scope. The isolation means that it is not connected to the USB ground, BUT the input channels still both share a common ground, right? Am I correct in assuming the input channels are NOT isolated from each other?
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Hi Ralph,
Yes, your assumption is correct, the Ground isolation takes place at the USB interface so the grounds of the two inputs are common.
Chris
P.S. Just a note that this is intended as galvanic isolation from the PC ground, so appropriate safety precautions need to be taken if floating the input grounds at elevated voltages, eg. avoiding contact with the metal case.
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Hi All
First post of the forum and I would like to thank Gryo Mark O and all other s who have posted on this thread.
I'm looking for my first scope as I have just stated to learn about digital electronics after not making any thing for years.
I had looked at the Hantek and others but the information contained in this thread has helped me decide to order the OWON VDS1022I.
Please advise if I'm missing something may main work will be with Arduino and Radio control systems my understanding is that this Digital scope should be fine for the speeds required and sample rate for my areas of interest.
Many thanks for your information in this thread. :-+ :-+
Regards
Mark
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Hi Hofabooz,
Welcome aboard. :)
It sounds as if the Owon will be capable of what you are describing. You need to remember that you are looking at a 100Msps sampling with an analogue SINE WAVE capability of 25MHz. Input rise time is spec'd at <14ns. What this means in practice is that you will be able to get a reasonable representation of a square wave of about a third of that, say, 8-10MHz. That sounds fine for standard RC servos and s/w toggled Arduino pins etc.
Hopefully I don't need to point out that for (rather) more money you could get a much more capable benchtop scope like the Rigol DS1054Z, but presumably you've taken that into account in your available budget. It's a shame the Pound has dropped, which is being reflected in prices of Chinese gear.
I would recommend that you also pick up one of those very cheap 8 bit logic analysers off ebay (preferably using it legally with open-source Sigrok Software). That would add very useful protocol decoding for serial I2C SPI (and PWM I think) to your test capabilities. The two in combination would give you a reasonable (but of course bandwidth limited) test setup.
Hope this helps,
Chris.
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Hi Chris
Thanks for the info I had looked at the Rigol and thought it was a very good piece of kit for the money however I did think the Owon would do most of what I wanted.
Would you recommend waiting a bit longer and saving up for the Rigol as I have patience and can wait a while longer for a scope as I have not owned one for a long time and having just stated with the Arduino platform felt I could do with one as programing a theory is all ok but when it meets the real world all can not bas as you think hence the thought of getting a scope.
Please advise.
Thanks Mark
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Hi Mark,
Doh! You had to ask that question. :palm: ...and on your second post too! :D
Yes, I suspect that a majority of people on here would say (I can here the rattle of keyboards) that it would be better to wait and save for the Rigol, and they're probably right. At the end of the day I guess only you can answer that question for your particular situation.
Whatever you do, I'd probably go for the ebay logic analyser anyway. Even if you wait and go for the Rigol, it's so cheap that it's a no-brainer and will probably give you better protocol decoding with minimal function overlap and 8 channels.
Chris.
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Hi chris
Thanks I will order the logic analyser and save some more for the scope sorry to ask the question but you know how it is sometimes you buy cheap and buy three times other times you can get away with it in this case I will wait and save as I think the rial with serve for a long time.
Thanks mark
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If you are loking for a logic analyzer this version worked as specified and is supported by Sigrok (and Saleae SW).
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-Logic-Analyzer-100M-max-sample-rate-16Channels-10B-samples-MCU-ARM-FPGA-debug-tool/1916810169.html
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Hi chris
Thanks I will order the logic analyser and save some more for the scope sorry to ask the question but you know how it is sometimes you buy cheap and buy three times other times you can get away with it in this case I will wait and save as I think the rial with serve for a long time.
Thanks mark
Hi Mark,
Don't worry about the question, it's just one that comes up rather often :). If you've got, or will have, the funds to go for the Rigol then it's undoubtedly the right thing to do. Most people buying the Owon do so because they can't fund or justify anything more expensive (or have some other specific requirement, eg, it's got to fit in the toolbag and you're already carying a laptop).
Good decision on the LA. If you want one locally then Hobby components on ebay has it...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hobby-Components-UK-USB-24M-8CH-24MHz-Logic-Analyser-/161309221423?hash=item258ec7622f:g:qmkAAOSwiLdV7wWY (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hobby-Components-UK-USB-24M-8CH-24MHz-Logic-Analyser-/161309221423?hash=item258ec7622f:g:qmkAAOSwiLdV7wWY)
Chris
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Hi Chris
many thanks for the info item ordered.
I like the look of the interface and it will be most useful suspect I will make the most use of it initially.
As I have some issue with a serial data transfer via blue tooth between to Arduinos.
This item will be most useful in understanding the issues I'm having.
Thanks again
Regards
Mark
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Hello! First post on this forum, and heartfelt thanks to all for the discussion on this scope. It has cleared the air on so many questions that I had. I have been refurbishing/restoring radios from the 30's through the 50's. I've never used a scope but have had the desire to purchase one and learn how to use it, but do not want to spend an arm and a leg. I do have a boat anchor (Sencore) scope which weighs 35-40 pounds, but like someone else in this topic, am not interested in acquiring a hernia this late in life. To the point: what is the max input voltage for the VDS1022I? While I have a perefectly good VTVM and DVM to measure B+ from the power supplies, there will be times where I want to view a waveform or measure a frequency that may have upwards of 100V. Will this scope do that? I plan on using it with an old WIN 7 laptop. Again, thanks to all who have contributed with your time! Joe
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from the specs page http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175#sthash.M9FXzMQ5.0rImWmWH.dpbs (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175#sthash.M9FXzMQ5.0rImWmWH.dpbs)
for the 22I
Max Input Voltage 400V (PK - PK) (DC+AC, PK - PK)
and for the 22 (non isolated version)
Max Input Voltage 40V (PK - PK) (DC+AC, PK - PK)
but im only new to this (only got mine a couple weeks ago) and this may be down to the probes specs? i bought the non isolated version because il only be using it off an old win7 laptop for 12v vehicle stuff.
HTH
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Welcome.
The input voltage spec is a little confusing, as the only difference between the non-I and the I is the USB isolation which is in the 'back-end' of the scope. The input sections are identical as far as I know. I suspect that the 400V spec is partly related to the USB isolation rating.
On that basis I would take the input voltage rating to be 40V (PK - PK) (DC+AC, PK - PK) relative to the ground clips for both. The scopes come with x10 scope probes which should extend the input range to 400V. I say 'should', because it's always a good idea be wary of the insulation of low cost Chinese scope probes.
It sounds as if you're well versed in handling this sort of stuff with your sencore, but if you're doing tube HT stuff then getting a couple of x100 probes is always a good idea (whatever your scope).
Chris
P.S. If you're working on '30s to 50's radios then it's very likely that a lot of them are 'live chassis' (no mains transformer). Clearly this is a big hazard when connecting grounded test gear. I mains isolation transformer is probably the best way to make your setup safe - USB isolation (while breaking the ground loop) doesn't guarantee your safety as you can still touch live parts.
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Thank you Dan & Chris. I've never used the Sencore I have as it looked so daunting and it weighs more than my Mazda! I hadn't thought about getting the x100 probes; I'll do just that. The measure of safety will be worth the cost, as will an iso transformer which is on my short list of equipment needs. I have generally been renovating non-AA5 radios, but I really do need to invest the iso transformer. It would be kinda' nice living through my next 60 years. ;) Chris, thank you for sharing your time and expertise in this, and so many other, posts. :-+ It is great to have this site as a source for equipment/electronic reference, and all-round good conversation. Cheers!
Joe
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Thank you Joe. Pleased to be able to help. :)
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This oscilloscope seems so much better designed and built than the Hantek, but what a pity there is no software interface support for linux or other platforms :-- Why won't these manufacturers learn that if they put out a good quality but reasonably priced product with the versatility of providing linux / open source drivers, then they don't even need to put a lot of effort into the user interface because the community will develop far better tools at no cost to them, plus extend the longevity of the product by sidestepping operating system obsolesence, PLUS generate a huge grassroots demand for their hardware which is effectively free marketing? |O
I really want to buy this over the Hantek but at the end of the day, this product is doomed to have a limited life because it won't be updated for some version of windows in the near future.
There seems to be some old drivers for OWON oscilloscopes, but from what I understand, those are for the benchtop models, correct me if I'm wrong?
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Hello! It has been a while since I've dabbled in Linux, but I recall that there is a program called 'Wine' at winehq.org which states it "is a compatibility layer capable of running Windows applications on several POSIX-compliant operating systems, such as Linux, Mac OSX, & BSD." This might be what you're looking for. Hope that helps! Joe
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I agree, it's a shame Owon don't seem to know the first thing about exploiting opportunities to expand the usefulness and therefore sales volume of these products. The VDS series seem to have lacked wider takeup because of this while the inferior Hantek H/W has a much wider following. The ironic thing is that Owon probably use linux in their benchtop scopes. :-//
Yes, I suspect that it would probably work fine under Wine, Joe. Perhaps somebody can try it with the Owon PC software from their website. This wouldn't confirm the device interface of course. Anyone already using one on a linux machine?
Chris
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Hi! Anyone nows if it works well in windows 10? I contacted a seller and he said it doesn't but some users claim it does, you just have to install drivers trough 'device manager'.
Thank you all.
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Hi! Anyone nows if it works well in windows 10? I contacted a seller and he said it doesn't but some users claim it does, you just have to install drivers trough 'device manager'.
Thank you all.
It works for me, without any issues.
Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk
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I think about getting this (vds1022I) scope until i can afford something serious and its a shame there is so little documentation and almost no experiences about it.
The software looks better compared to other usb scopes and i already downloaded it to look at the functions and the files.
It looks like it runs in java and there are several *source.jar files in the plugins directory, which do contain .java source files.
Maybe it can give some hints on how to interface the scopes.
I wonder if they accidentially included their source code in the program? :-DD
Can someone take a look at the program (VDS_C2) and the files in the plugins directory to see if that might be a possibility to interface those scopes or if the files are worthless?
Especially the "com.owon.vds.foundation.source_1.0.0.jar" looks like it contains the usb communication stuff and most of the functions of the program.
The "org.eclipse.equinox.launcher_1.3.0.v20120522-1813.jar" is what actually starts the whole program and can be run directly. Sadly it seems like no source for this exists, but it looks like it only loads other parts of the program.
*edit*
Tried to rebuild some classes using the sources i found and it seems possible.
(http://i.imgur.com/0bvCP0ul.png) (http://i.imgur.com/0bvCP0u.png)
Also as the program is java it runs perfectly fine under linux if you don't use the launcher but i am not sure what the launcher actually does and how hard it is to actually get the scope running under linux.
(http://i.imgur.com/SkPS0z6l.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/SkPS0z6.jpg)
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Welcome to the forum :)
Also as the program is java it runs perfectly fine under linux if you don't use the launcher but i am not sure what the launcher actually does and how hard it is to actually get the scope running under linux.
Now that's an interesting finding. The problem of only running under windows has put some people off in the past, as has not being able to use the device at low level. The FPGA file is included as a .bin in the installation folder so that isn't a problem. Maybe you can achieve something good here. :-+
P.S. Sadly I'm not a Linux or Java expert!
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Especially the "com.owon.vds.foundation.source_1.0.0.jar" looks like it contains the usb communication stuff and most of the functions of the program.
I haven't got this scope yet (only found out about it from Dave's last video), but thought I'd look at the software.
The driver looks like it's just plain LibUSB and everything is implemented over a java-wrapper to the LibUSB API (there's even the .so library incuded). Now I'm not a linux guru, so not sure how you load libusb for a specific device, but if you can do that then the java app should just run.
I'm amazed they've included the source - probably a very good idea to archive it.
Everything else is standard libraries (ie https://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_Launcher). All the source you need seems to be included in the source.jar files!
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Even more encouraging. :-+
Ok, so anyone know how I can make simple edits the .jar source files (and build?) in a windows environment? I'd love to be able to change the save button to save image rather than .txt and maybe add a few more shortcuts. Maybe a few other tweaks here and there.
(I have no java knowledge whatsoever!)
EDIT: Ah ok, after a bit of searching, .jar is an archive and 7zip is my friend. I now know one thing about Java. :D
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Ok, so anyone know how I can make simple edits the .jar source files (and build?) in a windows environment? I'd love to be able to change the save button to save image rather than .txt and maybe add a few more shortcuts. Maybe a few other tweaks here and there.
Yes that should be possible.
In my test i just compiled one class and replaced it in the original jar after loading all dependencies in eclipse, but i have currently no configuration to build everything automatically.
Sadly the program crashed when using the launcher.exe, but worked when running the launcher.jar directly from the main folder.
Probably the launcher uses the included jvm and i just used a different jdk, but it is definetly possible to just modify some parts of the program.
I have no idea how equinox works and is configured here, but it seems to be a whole environment that launches the program as i can't find any main method from the sources that could be run directly.
But there are definetly all sources we need.
The biggest problem might be the fpga under linux, but i think the main program might upload the bin file automatically. I found the FPGADownloader class that seems to send the bin file to the fpga.
Can someone who already has the scope call the *launcher*.jar in the plugins folder from the main folder where the launcher.exe is (or else it can't load all the needed files in the root folder) and force the scope to use libusb? If we are lucky that might work directly.
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Your version lost USB isolation , that is not good
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Your version lost USB isolation , that is not good
Not the end of the world, it can be retrofitted to the PCB if needed. The cost probably isn't much different to the price difference between the 'I' and 'non-I' but at least it can be done. See earlier posts in this thread.
The non-isolated version is really no different from a grounded scope. USB logic analyser, Hantek etc. It just needs care not to create a high current ground loop.
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I high recomend to do this I already burned one Picoscope, with some ground loops to mains via computer power supply
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Hi Gyro & Ultrawipf,
I pushed my quick & dirty guide here:
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022
Quick background:
I bought the scope, read some reviews that people wanted it on Mac/Linux, so got it running.
I came here and see you guys had started trying, so: Tada!
I'll be uploading an OS X 'app' package later, so you can just click-run the app.
Not tested in Linux, but I don't see a big issue for tweaks. (i'll do it later if this doesn't help.)
Dan.
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Hi CatWhisker,
Tada!
Congratulations and thank you. I'm impressed! :-+
I'm sure this will be helpful to a number of people, especially if it really is that easy to tweak it for Linux too.
It may be worth mentioning too that the VDS series support SCPI, I haven't looked into it in any detail, but it might be useful for automated measurement functions.
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That sounds awesome and is exactly what i thought and hoped for.
I will probably also buy this scope and when it works on OS X with that script it should also run on linux, i will try that when i have the scope.
Hopefully the scope will get some more attention when it runs on linux.
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Hi Gyro & Ultrawipf,
I pushed my quick & dirty guide here:
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022
What a coincidence, I also just got it working on OSX past night (but went to sleep before posting anything). :)
Similar steps, although I simply removed libusbpp linking to get (an old version of) Libusbjava to build.
I'll be uploading an OS X 'app' package later, so you can just click-run the app.
That would be great
Not tested in Linux, but I don't see a big issue for tweaks. (i'll do it later if this doesn't help.)
Before trying on OSX, I did about the same steps (building the libs) on (Arch) Linux, but no luck. In fact, I tried on OSX primarily to confirm it would work out of Windows and it was a Linux specific issue I was hitting.
To me it seems the osciloscope has some strange behavior and the Linux kernel has issues dealing with it, so, for now, I don't think it's gonna be as easy as on OSX.
Great work!
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Hi Gyro & Ultrawipf,
I pushed my quick & dirty guide here:
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022
What a coincidence, I also just got it working on OSX past night (but went to sleep before posting anything). :)
Similar steps, although I simply removed libusbpp linking to get (an old version of) Libusbjava to build.
I'll be uploading an OS X 'app' package later, so you can just click-run the app.
That would be great
Not tested in Linux, but I don't see a big issue for tweaks. (i'll do it later if this doesn't help.)
Before trying on OSX, I did about the same steps (building the libs) on (Arch) Linux, but no luck. In fact, I tried on OSX primarily to confirm it would work out of Windows and it was a Linux specific issue I was hitting.
To me it seems the osciloscope has some strange behavior and the Linux kernel has issues dealing with it, so, for now, I don't think it's gonna be as easy as on OSX.
Great work!
Haha, like a bus - these will all be coming out the woodwork!
I've tidied up the OS X App and uploaded.
This "build" doesn't need to put files anywhere like the initial script did. libUSBJava has been tweaked to look locally instead.
I'll poke at Linux when I have some time.
Last time I poked with USB and 'scopes on Linux was at Pico years ago, so no doubt it's 'different' again...
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Okay, i have the scope now and i am quite impressed how well it works even with usb 1.1
I quickly tried it on linux, but the software won't find the hardware.
Probably i need to manually create some device rules, but i have not much experience with that and how to force it to use libusb.
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Okay, i have the scope now and i am quite impressed how well it works even with usb 1.1
I quickly tried it on linux, but the software won't find the hardware.
Probably i need to manually create some device rules, but i have not much experience with that and how to force it to use libusb.
Been faffing in Linux all day.
I'm at the point where the app will recognise the device, but fails (times out) at sending config.
It should have write access and a quick Python script succeeds, but this is just annoying!
Some notes:
- lsusb may list the unit with another Owon device - this is purely a text string, not an existing driver. It seems Owon use one Id across most devices!
- A rule appears not to make a useful difference for testing (I'm Sudo'ing everything for now), but for a 'public' guide, is probably going to be useful.
- I removed the lsusbjava.so (wrong ELF format), and apt'd the libusbjava.
When running the app, you'll spot the terminal chatter when the device is plugged in, then fail with a timeout.
I'll have another crack at it another free day, but hopefully someone can give it some real effort.
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While digging around in the code to add some shortcuts to move the trigger position i also found a "secret" menu that you can activate by pressing ctrl+l and click on "tune"
Can anyone translate to see what that might do?
(http://i.imgur.com/WcufpG1l.png)
*edit*
oh well, looks just like some kind of configuration editor and language selection.
But i still don't know what those three tabs do differently.
The voltage selections do change the range on the scope and the calibration also just starts the self calibration just like in the main menu.
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I quickly tried it on linux, but the software won't find the hardware.
Without the actual message I can't be sure, but IIRC I saw such a message be thrown due to another problem (missing libraries, permissions... I can't remember).
Probably i need to manually create some device rules, but i have not much experience with that and how to force it to use libusb.
That (I'm guessing you mean the equivalent of the windows step of associating the device with the libusb-win32 driver) is not needed, just adequate permissions and the properly working libs.
Been faffing in Linux all day.
I'm at the point where the app will recognise the device, but fails (times out) at sending config.
This is the point I got too, before testing in the Mac. If you look at dmesg output, there should be a few "USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed" messages.
It should have write access and a quick Python script succeeds, but this is just annoying!
What does your Python script do?
Some notes:
- lsusb may list the unit with another Owon device - this is purely a text string, not an existing driver. It seems Owon use one Id across most devices!
- A rule appears not to make a useful difference for testing (I'm Sudo'ing everything for now), but for a 'public' guide, is probably going to be useful.
- I removed the lsusbjava.so (wrong ELF format), and apt'd the libusbjava.
The provided libusbJava.so is built for 32bit systems, are you using a 64bit system?
So far, apart from the Mac, in which we already know it works, I've tried:
1) a 64bit Linux (Arch) system with a recent kernel: timeout errors ("USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed ...") early in the device initialization progress.
2) a 32bit Linux (Centos) with an old (2.6) kernel running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: same as 1).
3) a 64bit FreeBSD 11 running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: didn't work, then worked 1 or 2 times, then never again; even not working, it gets further in the device initialization progress than Linux, the last message shown in the terminal, before stalling, is "+6250 bytes MCU:getFrame 14".
4) same 64bit FreeBSD 11 system running on actual hardware: same results as 3).
I have no idea what made it work once (or twice) in FreeBSD, but it did. it seems this device has some weird USB behavior... after trying to use it in FreeBSD/Linux, it locks the boot process of my notebook (which proceeds promptly after unplugging the device), booting with it plugged in sometimes also prevents Linux from recognizing my wireless keyboard/mouse usb receiver (which also proceeds to work promptly after unplugging it)...
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I note that Saelig is having a clearance sale on these ATM. It is the non-I model unfortunately. I've decided that I'm tired of borrowing a Tek from work and one of these is probably enough for 95% of my needs (for the other 5%, I'm back to borrowing from work). I'm a bit concerned about the 5kSa capture but for these $s ($84) I'll see what I see. I've just got to come up with $16 (or more if I bother with the EEVblog discount) of other (needed ;) ) stuff to get the free shipping.
I recall that early on in this thread there was some discussion on the USB hardware installed, 1.1 vs 2.0, in the I vs non-I variants. Did that ever get resolved ? Are they all USB 1.1 hardware, just that the non-I is missing a couple of ICs ? I believe that sticking to 1.1 speed it's about $20 (US) to make the upgrade.
I also sorta recall a comment (perhaps not in this thread) that all the OWON PC scopes push their data to the PC differently from others, and that's why they don't make for good data streamers. That the captured waveform is spit across the USB link as a file ? Even in continuous (vs single shot) mode ?? Does anyone know or am I misfiring a neuron (again) ?
I ask the above because I have a goofy idea on another way to isolate the scope. My thought was to use a cheap ARM SoC board (perhaps an RPi) to talk via USB to the scope. The pair are powered by the ubiquitous wallwart, which is general isolated from the mains. The link to the client software on the PC is then done via WiFi. This would mean some custom software on the ARM board to play mailman between WiFi and USB. And some more mods to the client software. I'm sure a real software person (not I) could do it in an hour ! >:D And if the speeds are really 1.1, the additional lag may be unnoticeable. I recall other posters saying it's already somewhat laggy. In return you get isolation and freedom from yet another USB cable dragging across the workbench.
Of course the whole scheme may be goofy but I figured I'd toss it out there and let people pull on it's wings.
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Apparently USB opto-isolators are a thing. I didn't know that, but this is just an example from Google of a fairly reputable sounding one.
http://uk.farnell.com/olimex/usb-iso/usb-isolator-1000vdc-for-pc-laptop/dp/1795095?mckv=fvKfxZhD_dc (http://uk.farnell.com/olimex/usb-iso/usb-isolator-1000vdc-for-pc-laptop/dp/1795095?mckv=fvKfxZhD_dc)|pcrid|78108470709|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-131293226229&CAAGID=20220744309&CMP=KNC-GUK-GEN-SHOPPING-OLIMEX&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CKiy19mhrdECFW4A0wodOisBqQ&DM_PersistentCookieCreated=true&CAWELAID=120173390000303585
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Yup, I've seen USB 2 isolated cables for about $50 (US). And Adafruit sells a isolator for USB 1.x for about $35, though it's a bit shy on current for this usage. (https://www.adafruit.com/product/2107 (https://www.adafruit.com/product/2107)) Linear Tech sells a USB 2 isolator IC, which Mouser and Digikey carry for about $30. You'd then have to come up with the PCB to mount it and associated connectors & cabling.
So there are solutions for people who want to isolate a non-I version w/o opening it up, it really depends on what speed it runs at (hence my question above).
My goofy idea above was birthed by looking for a "fair" entry level logic analyzer. I ran across a one-off project that used a Beaglebone Black (with it's PRUs and onboard RAM) to do a good job of capturing data but with real triggering and deep memory, something the $20 streamers can't do. Because it's another single board Linux machine, it could even run sigrok-client and with an added display and keyboard, be it's own little stand alone LA. No doubt better, in some regards, than the ones I started with decades ago.
Conceivably you could do a similar thing with my goofy proposal above to make it stand alone, but the added cost of a display and buttons and encoders, etc, etc would soon be enough that you could buy a better, budget, "real" benchtop DSO for just a bit more. YMMV. Just to isolate and make it wireless might run about $30 added (plus time to code), only slightly more $s than adding the 2 ICs mentioned in prior posts. When mine arrives I'll be better able to see if the idea has any merit.
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Apparently USB opto-isolators are a thing. I didn't know that, but this is just an example from Google of a fairly reputable sounding one.
http://uk.farnell.com/olimex/usb-iso/usb-isolator-1000vdc-for-pc-laptop/dp/1795095?mckv=fvKfxZhD_dc (http://uk.farnell.com/olimex/usb-iso/usb-isolator-1000vdc-for-pc-laptop/dp/1795095?mckv=fvKfxZhD_dc)|pcrid|78108470709|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-131293226229&CAAGID=20220744309&CMP=KNC-GUK-GEN-SHOPPING-OLIMEX&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CKiy19mhrdECFW4A0wodOisBqQ&DM_PersistentCookieCreated=true&CAWELAID=120173390000303585
Actually, isolators but not opto-isolators. They use on-chip (or at least in package) inductive coupling. They're pretty much all based on the Analog Devices ADUM4160...
http://www.analog.com/en/products/interface-isolation/isolation/standard-digital-isolators/adum4160.html (http://www.analog.com/en/products/interface-isolation/isolation/standard-digital-isolators/adum4160.html)
Note that these USB isolator products state USB2.0 compliance but when you look closer, their maximum supported speed is USB Full Speed (12Mbps) not USB2 High speed (480Mbps). This works with the VDS1022(I) because of its high level of front end processing and also things like USB audio DACs, but won't work with the Hantek, simple USB logic analysers etc. because their USB streaming needs USB High Speed to get enough throughput.
You also need to get enough power across the isolation barrier to power the device, either with an isolated DC-DC converter or external PSU. A lot of the off the shelf USB isolators are only good for 100mA.
I have seen one recent reference to a USB2 High Speed isolator but the links to the company and Silicon are dead.
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I recall that early on in this thread there was some discussion on the USB hardware installed, 1.1 vs 2.0, in the I vs non-I variants. Did that ever get resolved ? Are they all USB 1.1 hardware, just that the non-I is missing a couple of ICs ? I believe that sticking to 1.1 speed it's about $20 (US) to make the upgrade.
Yes it was resolved, they both use USB Full Speed (12Mbps) and so are compliant with both USB1.1 and USB2.0 (again at Full speed, not High). The AD USB isolator chip is 'software transparent' so they both use the same driver and on-board code.
I also sorta recall a comment (perhaps not in this thread) that all the OWON PC scopes push their data to the PC differently from others, and that's why they don't make for good data streamers. That the captured waveform is spit across the USB link as a file ? Even in continuous (vs single shot) mode ?? Does anyone know or am I misfiring a neuron (again) ?
Yes, there's a lot more going on - there's an on board ARM CPU and FPGA rather than just a Cypress 8051 based EZ-USB micro. All the triggering etc is handled on-board rather than having to be done by the PC S/W in real time so all it needs to pump across the interface is display data rather than raw samples.
Yes, you can retrofit the parts, I'm not sure about the current cost. ADUM4160s are relatively easy to source, the more difficult part is probably the TI isolated DC-DC converter IC. I haven't looked for one of those, but reading back a few pages, someone did do it successfully.
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Yes, there's a lot more going on - there's an on board ARM CPU and FPGA rather than just a Cypress 8051 based EZ-USB micro. All the triggering etc is handled on-board rather than having to be done by the PC S/W in real time so all it needs to pump across the interface is display data rather than raw samples.
Aahhh, so am I correct in stating that all you get at the PC end is some "picture" format file for each waveform displayed ? Which at best contains/depicts perhaps 1k samples (given the display box is 1024 max) ? Any and all panning, zooming, measurements, etc is done in the OWON box so, as the old saying goes, "what ya see is what ya get" ?
ETA : Much thanks to you and the others for this very informative thread ! :clap:
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I ask the above because I have a goofy idea on another way to isolate the scope. My thought was to use a cheap ARM SoC board (perhaps an RPi) to talk via USB to the scope. The pair are powered by the ubiquitous wallwart, which is general isolated from the mains. The link to the client software on the PC is then done via WiFi. This would mean some custom software on the ARM board to play mailman between WiFi and USB. And some more mods to the client software. I'm sure a real software person (not I) could do it in an hour ! >:D And if the speeds are really 1.1, the additional lag may be unnoticeable. I recall other posters saying it's already somewhat laggy. In return you get isolation and freedom from yet another USB cable dragging across the workbench.
Of course the whole scheme may be goofy but I figured I'd toss it out there and let people pull on it's wings.
It could work. But if you simply use it with a notebook only on its battery, unplugged from the wall, it's also effectively isolated, no? (though not wireless :))
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But if you simply use it with a notebook only on its battery, unplugged from the wall, it's also effectively isolated, no? (though not wireless :))
Yes that would isolate the scope and PC from earth ground. But c'mon now, where's the unneeded complexity in that ! ;)
I got my VDS1022 delivered today. Thumbs up to Saelig, I put the order in on Fri and it came (free shipping) 5 days later. :-+
I wanted to put up a somewhat obvious chart of sampling rate vs horizontal time setting in case some people didn't realize that they're tied in a DSO. In particular with only 5k samples/chan of storage, there's only so long it can collect data before that memory is full. And so to "see" a longer display means a slower Sa/s rate. And that means less than the full bandwidth is available as those rates.
5ns/div 100MS/s
...
2us/div 100 MS/s
5us/div 50MS/s
10us/div 25MS/s
20us/div 12.5MS/s
50us/div 5MS/s
100us/div 2.5MS/s
200us/div 1.25MS/s
500us/div 0.5MS/s
1ms/div 250kS/s
2ms/div 125kS/s
5ms/div 50kS/s
10ms/div 25kS/s
20ms/div 12.5kS/s
50ms/div 5kS/s
................. trigger to auto mode, no single shot available
100ms/div 2.5kS/s
200ms/div 1.25kS/s
500ms/div 0.5kS/s
1s/div 250S/s
2s/div 125S/s
5s/div 50S/s
10s/div 25S/s
20s/div 12.5S/s ????
50s/div 5S/s
100s/div 2.5S/s ????
I wonder how Owon splits those half samples ? ;D
I had a brief chance to sniff the USB link and what I've seen so far is (I think) that the program on the PC sends a set of 3 commands to the scope HW. Each of these gets a 5 byte response except for the last one. If the HW is not "ready" (buffer not full ?) then a "busy" response is sent. IF the HW is ready then there's a 5216 byte message. The 1'st hundred or so bytes seem to be some header of some sort, the remainder appears to be the sampled data.
In this case I had only a single channel on, digitizing the 1kHz test signal. The scope was autoset to some ?? V/div vertically, near zero offset and 50kSa/s. One period of that data looks like ;
3C 3D 3C 3C 3C 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D 3E 3D
00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF FF FF 00 00 FF 00 00 FF 00 00 FF 00
I interpret those 50 bytes as 25 samples of 0 or -1, 25 samples of 61 (+/- 1). The numbers make sense if the scope sends a 2's complement number, -127 to +128 for it's 8 bit sample. The 50 samples make sense for a 1 msec period sampled at 50kSa/s (-> 50 Sa/ms). The 50% DC of the test waveform is obvious.
So sometime this weekend I'll vary the sample rate and turn on the other channel just to see what I can see via the sniffed USB. I'll post my results and thoughts here, if anyone is interested and the OP doesn't mind the "hijack" of his thread. And if I can how to get the multiport to output, I'll measure the waveforms/sec update rate vs horz time setting, which should be good for a laugh. From the USB timestamps for the above, it was ~ 14 ms between 2 full data packets or ~71 wvfrms/s.
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So sometime this weekend I'll vary the sample rate and turn on the other channel just to see what I can see via the sniffed USB. I'll post my results and thoughts here, if anyone is interested and the OP doesn't mind the "hijack" of his thread. And if I can how to get the multiport to output, I'll measure the waveforms/sec update rate vs horz time setting, which should be good for a laugh. From the USB timestamps for the above, it was ~ 14 ms between 2 full data packets or ~71 wvfrms/s.
Go ahead and hijack :), I don't think anyone has done any USB sniffing yet (one advantage is that the USB connection is slow enough to do it). With the Mac and Linux efforts going on too, all additional info is useful.
P.S. Another line of interest is the documented SCPI protocol interface.
http://www.owon.com.hk/service_down.asp?SortID_1=4&SortID_2=7&seek=&curpage=3 (http://www.owon.com.hk/service_down.asp?SortID_1=4&SortID_2=7&seek=&curpage=3)
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Is the noise level on the 1022 much higher than the noise on 1022I oscilloscope ( if someone was able to check both ).
Thank you.
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I don't think this is a question that anyone will be able to answer., there are too many variables. The 1022 isn't inherently noisier than the USB isolated version (if you just short the inputs I think the residual noise would be the same). Any additional noise will come from ground loops. The noise induced by a ground loop will be dependent on the test setup, the computer, the length of USB and mains connections, how quiet the mains is etc. The VDS1022I will probably be quieter in some situations by some degree but it is not possible to quantify it so easily.
What the USB isolation mostly brings you is reduced chance of damage to your PC and equipment due to accidentally created ground currents, eg. accidentally shorting a probe ground clip to a high current supply rail (note that it doesn't mean that 'floating' the scope's ground at an elevated voltage is a good idea though).
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Hello everyone,
I am reading this forum for some time and it is a real pleasure, although probably 80% of the things I am reading, are very distant or not clear to me. I have a little to no electronic experience, but how you guys approach each challenge, is a pleasure to read.
Because of this, topic I recently purchased an OWON VDS1022I oscilloscope. I intend to learn how to use it for measuring things around my oldtimer (which recently received a brain surgery and now features megasquirt).
I hope my cry for help is on the right place. Today I was testing the oscilloscope for the first time for about 30-40 minutes, then turned it off and after turning it on again, it won't set itself automatically (the big A letter on the top right corner).
The program opens the AutoSetting dialog, the oscilloscope clicks twice and then the AutoSetting dialog stays just forever. The oscilloscope light is green and every few seconds it blinks shortly red.
Has anyone experienced such issue? Would it be possible, that I am not doing anything correct? I already deinstalled and reinstalled everything on my laptop, and also tested the oscilloscope on another laptop.
Thanks in advance for any help you could provide
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Hi krum, welcome to the forum.
You say that the Autoset has stopped working. Does manual setting of timebase and sensitivity range of the inputs still work correctly? Do you still get sensible traces if you adjust these settings manually? Do all ranges work, AC/DC coupling too.
If it works with manual settings then it sounds unlikely that there is a hardware fault. If you have tested on two different laptops then it probably rules out USB interface problems too (unless both laptops cannot supply enough power to drive the scope, that seems unlikely though). You are using the supplied cable rather than a longer one? If the scope is responding, it seems to rule out driver issues -the S/W would tell you if it couldn't see the scope anyway.
If you see traces in manual mode then I'm wondering if there is something about the signal(s) that is confusing the Auto setup (I don't know maybe large spikes or something). If there is a fault on one of the sensitivity ranges then I suppose that could confuse it too.
The other thing to check is that you are running the latest version of the PC software, which is not necessarily what is on the CD, depending how long the supplier had it in storage. I have vague memory of one of the past updates being to improve autoset functionality.
You can find the latest software on the OWON site: http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175 (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175) It's the first thing Owon would tell you to do anyway.
If nothing helps, then it's possible that you have a faulty unit, i which case I would go back to the supplier. Owon might also be able to help based on its behaviour (light pattern etc).
I hope this helps.
P.S. It probably doesn't help right now, but it's a good thing to get into the habit of using the manual settings, based on what you are expecting the signal to be, rather than autoset. It gives to a better 'feel' for a signal not being what it should and you can probably set the scope more optimally by eye too.
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Thank you for the fast response and good advises, Chris.
To answer first to the setup questions - I am using the supplied USB cable, tried both plugging it in 1 and 2 usbs (it is an Y cable).
When default settings are restored I cannot see any traces in manual mode (good tip, will use it, thanks).
Software is 1.0.23 (latest from Owon's website). I have also tried with 1.0.24, which came with the oscilloscope on a CD.
I have dug a bit more in the menus and found the "Self Cal" button under Utility. After the calibration finishes, I can see traces, when I connect the probe to the generator. The frequency is measured at 1000Hz.
When the scale is at <5V, the graphic seems to be not effected by changing the scale. The Voltage cursor however changes its value. The graphic is rather tiny. If I change the probe's multiplier to 1X, then the graphic gets much higher.
Changing the scale to 5V and more reduces the size of the graphic to a very tiny one.
Following your advise, I have contacted the supplier and prepared this video for them: https://youtu.be/9Yw15jdur5g
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You're welcome, I'm glad it was of some help anyway.
When the scale is at <5V, the graphic seems to be not effected by changing the scale. The Voltage cursor however changes its value. The graphic is rather tiny. If I change the probe's multiplier to 1X, then the graphic gets much higher.
Changing the scale to 5V and more reduces the size of the graphic to a very tiny one.
Hmm, that looks like the problem then, no wonder the Autoset is getting confused. At a guess it's a bad joint somewhere between the processor and the variable gain amplifier (it sound as if the relay controls work) but best not to mess with it while you're in discussion with the supplier, who will hopefully be helpful!
One thing I forgot to ask... Does it behave the same on the other channel? That would be helpful to know, both for diagnosis and for evidence to the supplier.
P.S. I wonder what they've changed in s/w 1.0.24 vs the website version. Unfortunately Owon don't really do release notes. :(
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Both channels act exactly the same. I expect the seller to act soon, but let's see what will happen...
If you are interested of taking a look on 1.0.24, I can try to upload it somewhere in the cloud.
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Now that's really strange, one channel is reasonably easy to explain as a simple hardware fault, both channels is much harder!
Just one other thing from looking through the menus - you haven't got the probe divide ratio (Function menu > Channel > Probe Rate) set to something silly like X1000? I think I'm out of ideas.
I hope the supplier comes back to you soon.
Yes, it would be interesting to see if I can see any differences in 1.0.24. Thank you!
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Ok, just one more thought overnight (can you tell it's bugging me? :)).
Do a full uninstall of 1.0.24, then check that the installation folder is empty / deleted (just in case it has left some settings file). Then do a clean install of 1.0.23 from the website. I'm not sure if this is what you did anyway, or whether you installed 1.0.23 over the top of 1.0.24.
After that it has to be a faulty unit.
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The autoset does not really work most of the time for me too but my scope is definetly not faulty. I guess it is just terrible software.
For me the led flashing pattern is slow blinking red/green when the scope is not initialized and mostly constant green with short red pulses while running so that should be correct.
Maybe do a self calibration and software reset again but i guess something is definetly wrong with you scope when the traces are super high in the 50V setting if i saw that correctly in the video.
If everything fails contact the seller and get a replacement.
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Thanks Gyro, Ultrawipf.
The probes divider was set to 10x initially. I did the deinstall/reinstall on the first laptop and I installed 1.0.23 clean on the second laptop. The behavior of the both channels is the same.
Ultrawipf, now that you have pointed it out, it really looks like the signal is too high.
Well... apparently the unit is defect. Shame, I was willing to setup my newly implanted VR sensor on my oldtimer. Now I will have to wait until the seller responds. Tomorrow evening I will check with them what's going on.
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I'be purchased VDS1022 after reading rather positive reviews of it on this forum.
Tried it on Win7 machine and it works OK. Then I tried to install it on dedicated PC that runs XP but without success. Installation simply won't start with error message that says nothing usable. SW version that arrived with device on CD is 1.0.23, the same as on on their site.
I guess XP is (or was) supported since there is official description how to install USB driver for 2000/XP.
Does anybody have, and is willing to share (via drivespace, or...) an older version of SW that supports XP?
Regards, Ivan.
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Hi Ivan,
Welcome.
That's curious, I have two XP (SP3) PCs running the latest 1.0.23 version from the website. What was the error message?
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Hi Gyro,
it's XP SP3, with 3 GB RAM and 100 GB of free HD space.
AVG AV program disabled.
Error message appears just after installation start, find it attached.
Regards, Ivan.
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Hi Ivan,
Not such an unusable error message then. Looking on the web, it indicates that the open source installer they use has detected a checksum error in the file:
http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Why_do_I_get_NSIS_Error%3F (http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Why_do_I_get_NSIS_Error%3F)
At a guess, it's something to do with what you used to unpack the installer .exe file from the downloaded .rar file from the website. I downloaded the 1.0.23 file from the website this morning (Edit: on my XP machine), unpacked it using 7Zip and the installer opened fine.
Your other alternative would be to copy the installer file that you unpacked on your Win7 machine across to your XP machines, because it worked there.
The other thing the page above suggested was the possiblity of virus on the system. I would re-enable your AVG.
Chris
P.S. Just as a precaution, I just scanned the installer exe file itself with AVG2017 and Malwarebytes and according to them it's clean.
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Hi,
a short update, which could be helpful for the future buyers of this oscilloscope. The seller agreed to send a new device. According to him, it will take 8-16 working days to arrive.
He rejected the old device, as the return costs will be too high.
I guess this leaves me with a device to play... Any ideas what and how to check are very welcome. After a surface check nothing looks burned or unsoldered.
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At a guess, it's something to do with what you used to unpack the installer .exe file from the downloaded .rar file from the website. I downloaded the 1.0.23 file from the website this morning (Edit: on my XP machine), unpacked it using 7Zip and the installer opened fine.
Chris, you,ve been right on-topic.
Archive was unpacked on XP and everything worked fine since!
Many thanks!
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Well that was a pretty good day then! :)
@ivanlrlukic: My pleasure, glad you got it sorted. Mine runs nicely on what is really quite an old XP machine now. Thanks for reporting back. :-+
@krum:
That sounds like a result too! Make sure you keep an eye on the arrival date just in case it takes you outside ebay or whatever complaint date (I'm sure it will be fine though). An interesting unit to investigate, it was puzzling from the start, I don't think anyone has seen anything like that before, on here anyway.
I wondered about bad firmware, but I'm not sure if there is anything, I think it and the FPGA data all get downloaded over USB at startup... and the PC correcty recognises it and performs most operations correctly anyway.
Looking back to the original teardown, I would download the datasheet for the AD603 variable gain amplifiers and look carefully at the control signals, I still can't see why it would affect both channels though. If we look at it as an production fault though, I would suspect the soldering of the SiM3U156 CPU, maybe the gain control pins are adjacent on a badly soldered side. Maybe also look for missing passives, check against the photos that Mark_O posted as his board revision was later than mine. It would be worth posting some photos, we might be able to spot something (yours might be a later revision too, which would be interesting).
Do please post back on anything you find regardless, getting it going too would be a nice result!
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Been faffing in Linux all day.
I'm at the point where the app will recognise the device, but fails (times out) at sending config.
This is the point I got too, before testing in the Mac. If you look at dmesg output, there should be a few "USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed" messages.
Ah, useful - didn't think to check dmesg!
It should have write access and a quick Python script succeeds, but this is just annoying!
What does your Python script do?
I've completely forgot - I don't even remember writing said script now.
I think it was purely a quick way to init and poke at the scope.
The provided libusbJava.so is built for 32bit systems, are you using a 64bit system?
So far, apart from the Mac, in which we already know it works, I've tried:
1) a 64bit Linux (Arch) system with a recent kernel: timeout errors ("USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed ...") early in the device initialization progress.
2) a 32bit Linux (Centos) with an old (2.6) kernel running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: same as 1).
3) a 64bit FreeBSD 11 running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: didn't work, then worked 1 or 2 times, then never again; even not working, it gets further in the device initialization progress than Linux, the last message shown in the terminal, before stalling, is "+6250 bytes MCU:getFrame 14".
4) same 64bit FreeBSD 11 system running on actual hardware: same results as 3).
I have no idea what made it work once (or twice) in FreeBSD, but it did. it seems this device has some weird USB behavior... after trying to use it in FreeBSD/Linux, it locks the boot process of my notebook (which proceeds promptly after unplugging the device), booting with it plugged in sometimes also prevents Linux from recognizing my wireless keyboard/mouse usb receiver (which also proceeds to work promptly after unplugging it)...
I 'think' I was swapping libusbJava.so for a suitable blob. (As per OS X)
I'd probably guess that the USB implementation on BSD is more forgiving or on-spec than the Linux implementation - closer to the OS X version.
Getting a FreeBSD driver based off the OS X method may be more likely to work?
When it worked 2-3 times, was this concurrent? Or through power cycles (scope unplugged)?
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Can't recognize IC U45 - Ethernet controller. Do you have full-size photo?
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I just played around with scpi and it looks like all functions are supported via scpi and you can even send aquired data via scpi pretty fast, so i wonder if it might be possible to realise simple serial decoding or longer data logging for slower signals in a different application.
Does anyone know if there is already something around as it seems to be documented and following some standard?
"*ADC 1" gives you a full length of the current buffer of channel 1 and all the measurement functions like ":meas:max" also work great.
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Hi,
Like many others, this is my first post, and I'd like to thank Gyro and the others for this thread. I just bought my VDS1121 (non-I) due to the reviews here and I'm eagerly waiting for it to arrive to start testing stuff :). In the meantime, I've been checking the software, and I'm very curious about the different changes that Owon might have made between different versions, so I wanted to ask that if people have different versions of the software (unlikely, but who knows) we can just check the source that is provided with it and do a simple diff (I'm actually a Java programmer by day :D). I'd also like to get my hands on the 1.0.24 version of the software, maybe @krum or someone else can provide it somewhere?
Anyway, many thanks again.
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Hi arcnor, welcome to the forum :)
Glad to have done my bit to help, hopefully I haven't set you up for a dissapointment. If so, I'll try to share the blame! :D
Looking back through my archive, I've used it with software versions since 1.0.4 (the released versions have been 1.0.4, 1.0.8, 1.0.11 and 1.0.23). I've still not seem 1.0.24 on the website either, so no idea what improvement they might have added on the most recent CD version. I'm currently running 1.0.23 and haven't found any bugs in it as yet.
As you've probably noticed, Owon are hopeless at doing release notes, there are also some big gaps in the released numbers, meaning that there must have been a lot of internal versions in between.
In terms of changes, it hindsight it's difficult to remember them in detail, I think they have mostly been bugfixes. There was a problem in 1.0.4 with single shot triggering I think, fixed in 1.0.8. I do remember that 1.0.8 added the ability to maximise the window, however it also introduced a bug which made one of the settings windows very slow to open (for me anyway), this got fixed in 1.0.11. I think at some point SCPI support possibly got included too, but I may not have noticed it previously. Another thing that has probably changed is inclusion of newer scopes like the VDS1062. Although there are different releases for different scopes, I think this is because they include different downloadable firmware for the different hardware platforms, hopefully they are now all using the same PC s/w code by now.
Having a full-time Java programmer on board could be very useful. As Owon seem to have managed to accidentally include the source code in their releases there are probably all sorts of useful tweaks that could be made. A few more shortcuts would be useful for instance... and the other big one, adding single shot triggering at slow (chart recorder mode) timebases - that one is probably tied up in firmware though.
Do please report back on your impressions after it arrives and anything useful you dig up in the code. :-+
P.S. You might be able to help with the porting to Linux too, is sounds as if it very nearly works.
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Hi arcnor, welcome to the forum :)
Hi Gyro, thanks!
Glad to have done my bit to help, hopefully I haven't set you up for a dissapointment. If so, I'll try to share the blame! :D
If you did, I'll make sure to complain about the free advice loudly here! ;)
Looking back through my archive, I've used it with software versions since 1.0.4 (the released versions have been 1.0.4, 1.0.8, 1.0.11 and 1.0.23). I've still not seem 1.0.24 on the website either, so no idea what improvement they might have added on the most recent CD version. I'm currently running 1.0.23 and haven't found any bugs in it as yet.
As you've probably noticed, Owon are hopeless at doing release notes, there are also some big gaps in the released numbers, meaning that there must have been a lot of internal versions in between.
In terms of changes, it hindsight it's difficult to remember them in detail, I think they have mostly been bugfixes. There was a problem in 1.0.4 with single shot triggering I think, fixed in 1.0.8. I do remember that 1.0.8 added the ability to maximise the window, however it also introduced a bug which made one of the settings windows very slow to open (for me anyway), this got fixed in 1.0.11. I think at some point SCPI support possibly got included too, but I may not have noticed it previously. Another thing that has probably changed is inclusion of newer scopes like the VDS1062. Although there are different releases for different scopes, I think this is because they include different downloadable firmware for the different hardware platforms, hopefully they are now all using the same PC s/w code by now.
Will you be able to share those versions if you still have them around, or at least the files with "*_source*" on them (besides the Eclipse ones, which we don't care about)? I'm interested in seeing the progress, mostly curiosity, but you never know if they added some feature than they later removed, for example (I've obviously seen this before :D)
Having a full-time Java programmer on board could be very useful. As Owon seem to have managed to accidentally include the source code in their releases there are probably all sorts of useful tweaks that could be made. A few more shortcuts would be useful for instance... and the other big one, adding single shot triggering at slow (chart recorder mode) timebases - that one is probably tied up in firmware though.
I'll be glad to help if there are things worth changing. The only "problem" is that I know nearly nothing about oscilloscopes (yesterday I learned why you cannot just connect wires to the scope, and that 1x and 10x probes are a thing :P) so I don't really understand that second thing you mentioned. Good thing is that knowledge can be acquired, so I'm hoping that with clear instructions I'll be able to do interesting changes if needed :).
Do please report back on your impressions after it arrives and anything useful you dig up in the code. :-+
P.S. You might be able to help with the porting to Linux too, is sounds as if it very nearly works.
After reading the code a bit I might setup a build system for it, that might even fix the Linux problem on its own, but I'll check.
Thanks!
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So, after checking the code for a while, I've reached the conclusion that whoever did this didn't know how to Java, really... For those that know Java, it seems that they've added Swing inside SWT, which is nuts. For those that don't understand me, this is like driving a car that you've mounted inside another car. They only use Eclipse to run the Swing software, so in the end 80% of the files they have in there are useless :P.
In some other news, it seems this software was also used by another company (which might be the same one in the end or something?) called SainSmart, specifically for a product called VPO1025. If you check the images on their product page (https://www.sainsmart.com/sainsmart-vpo1025-pen-type-handheld-oscilloscope-25mhz-100ms-s-usb-dso.html (https://www.sainsmart.com/sainsmart-vpo1025-pen-type-handheld-oscilloscope-25mhz-100ms-s-usb-dso.html)) you'll see a very familiar interface. Also, Owon seems to have a very similar product called RDS1021(I) (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ParentID=79&SortID=84&ProID=179 (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ParentID=79&SortID=84&ProID=179)) which I'm sure it's the same product behind all that yellow plastic.
I've also checked their latest software, and finally they've removed the source code and obfuscated the binaries (because Java code can trivially be converted back to compilable form. Even without that source we found, the code for the VDS1022 is practically the same after decompiling, minus the Chinese comments :D)
I've created a build process for the code, removed all that Eclipse cruft and everything runs exactly the same as before, except the USB connection. I'm converting that to a more standard Java USB library, which is way harder than just replacing the proper libraries, but will allow us to run this anywhere (for example, ARM, so this can run on a Raspberry Pi). Until I receive my own oscilloscope in about 2 weeks I won't be able to verify that everything works, of course.
Anyway, that's what I've found in general :).
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Well that seems pretty good progress for your first day! ;D
I'm happy to share the old versions with you (if you still need them at this stage), I guess it really ought to be by PM rather than publicly as they no longer release them. Also they're around 40MB a time, even the folder with the JAR files in is 25MB. I'm not big on the whole cloud thing (or Java!) but if you can either PM me a dropbox type location and password or whatever then I'll happily dump them in there. Alternatively a temporary email address that will accept files of that size.
Interesting about the SainSmart connection, you're the first one to spot that. It is indeed a strange relationship that these Chinese competitor companies have - Sainsmart have recently taken to blatantly copying JYE Tech products, so I'm not surprised to see OWON code in there too. Confusing, there appear to be all sorts of colaborations / downright thefts.
It sounds as if you may be on the road to streamlining the s/w a lot - great progress. :-+
P.S. Don't worry about the scope probes, it comes with a reasonably decent set. There are plenty of threads on here covering safe use of a scope.
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Yeah, it's been productive, but I think I'm almost all out of low hanging fruit at this point :).
I'd like to try something, though. I've seen that when changing the size of the window, the software starts to behave strangely. For example, when making it bigger, the pixels get bigger instead of being able to see more of the signal, which should be the normal behavior. I've also seen that you can load files onto the software, so I was wondering if somebody can share with me a record of some kind of signal, just to verify my assumption that this can be fixed :D.
Oh, and I've also found that there is another OWON product that is supposed to work with the software, maybe an older version of the RDS1021 called VPS021. I've only found references on Aliexpress and on the Chinese version of the OWON homepage...
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You have a couple of PMs, only the second one giving what you want! ::)
I've attached a saved waveform file - channel 1 is a sawtooth and channel 2 just mains noise pickup, but will hopefully give you something to play with...
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Awesome, thanks! I'll take a look. I replied to both your PMs, but I'm not sure you saw the replies (maybe I did something wrong, no idea).
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Ah yes, I see them now, thanks. Hope it helps.
Chris
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Hey arcnor,
Awesome that we have activity again and i can confirm the code is ugly ;)
I have not done very much with it apart from looking for more information, adding new shortcuts for trigger position, start/stop and single trigger.
You are exactly the one we need to take this software apart further and find out more about the protocols :-+
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Hey Ultrawipf, thanks!
You are exactly the one we need to take this software apart further and find out more about the protocols :-+
What do you mean by "find out more about the protocols"? I thought the protocol was already known? Or is the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual" not complete? http://bikealive.nl/tl_files/EmbeddedSystems/Test_Measurement/owon/OWON%20Oscilloscope%20PC%20Guidance%20Manual.pdf (http://bikealive.nl/tl_files/EmbeddedSystems/Test_Measurement/owon/OWON%20Oscilloscope%20PC%20Guidance%20Manual.pdf) in case you haven't seen that before, but I thought I read about this document on this thread, although I might be wrong (I did a *lot* of reading before buying this thing, and now my memory is blurry :D)
In any case, I think it will be better at some point to have some sort of common repository if there is a general interest on this, although the legality of it is what I'm worried about...
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Or is the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual"
Hey, that's a new one on me - I'd only found the SCPI Protocol manual.
Edit: Or at least, didn't realize it related to the VDS models - I thought it was just for the USB interface in their desktop models. The VDSxxxx models aren't listed in the SPBWxx string (section 3.1.1 Model).
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You might be right, the VDS1022 is not mentioned on that doc. However, I'll be very surprised if they changed it much. The "STARTMEMDEPTH" command (among others) is also on the code, although commented. In any case, it should not be complicated to find out how the protocol works, I'll try to document it after I receive mine.
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So, for today I've managed to find where the rendering takes place, and I've tried to improve it a bit, as I find it extremely ugly, although I feel like I'm missing something and there is a reason for it to look like this.
I've added an example of how it looked before (very "chunky") and how it looks "cleaned" (ignore the problems with the grid, I'm doing some tests with it).
From what I've seen, the software is using 4 vertical samples per horizontal value, but I fail to see why... Also, at least with this example, there seems to be a vertical resolution of only 64 values (6 bits).
Is this how this normally looks, or maybe I have something wrong somewhere?
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Oh. that document is new to me. But it seems to only mention the standalone scopes and not the vds series and they seem to use a different control software.
I found almost no info about the vds but there is a lot known about the sds/pds/hds so i assumed there are bigger differences.
The 4 values per horizontal point might be related to zooming in while paused without having a separate buffer. Maybe i look into the code again later but i find it pretty hard to find anything specific in that bunch of files.
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Hi All,
Bought this scope based on the how to set up a lab cheaply video blog, and from this forum. I have it working on my PC, but I can't seem to get it working on my mac. For context, I have an IT background, and intermediate Linux, but Mac is basically beginner/end-user.
The app fires up, but I can't seem to get the device detected. Does anyone have any troubleshooting tips?
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Hi pjhsv,
I'm assuming that, if you are trying to run it on a MAC, you are doing it based on CatWisker's posts and github repository:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg1096866/?topicseen#msg1096866 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg1096866/?topicseen#msg1096866)
If so, then you might want to PM him directly.
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Yes, that is the post. And yes, I've PM'd him directly. Thanks :)
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So finally, I've received my VDS1022. And I'm surprised I did, because they sent it without any packaging, just the bare (and flimsy) box it comes in.
Anyway, as for the software, I did some fixes to my code and managed to make it work on OSX. Boring I know, somebody else already did this. However, my version should even work on Linux, including ARM devices (like a Raspberry for example, although I don't have any to test this on). It's also stopping to work after a while, and I'm not sure yet if it's because my code or because I have it connected through 2 hubs.
In any case, I have some questions:
1. When I connected it to another computer, it uploaded some FPGA firmware. I don't remember that happening on the first computer I connected this to. Does anybody know if theirs also got updated when they connected it? I can check the code, but it's a mess :)
2. When doing the self calibration, the device itself made some scaring clicks. Is that normal at all? It sounded like some sort of relay switching, although as I said I'm no analog electronics person.
3. The device seems noisy, although this is probably expected, but it will help me if somebody can post an screenshot of the calibrating pattern with the provided probes, to see that my thing is not completely broken :D (it's also not the isolated version, but I read a few pages back that this should not affect noise by a lot? No idea, of course)
Anyway, that's all for now, thank you in advance!
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1. I am pretty sure it does not store the fpga firmware in it and always has to load it after starting up. The led blinks red if it was not initialized and after the software was started once and uploaded the firmware it goes into normal operation.
2. Relay clicking is normal when calibrating and changing voltage levels.
3. After calibration without anything connected to the probe it does not seem to be very noisy apart from the usual 50hz ambient noise on the very sensitive settings.
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Yes, what Ultrawipf said - it's my understanding too that it downloads the FPGA code every time you connect and start it up. Yes it does have relays (AC/DC coupling and range) in the front-ends which do click a bit during cal.
You'll get lots of noise on the lowest settings with the probes open - there's lot's more floating in the air than just 50Hz (more these days with SMPSs and other stuff everywhere). It should quieten down if you sort the ground clip to the tip - but not completely, it still forms a wire loop.
I posted traces of what I get with the inputs shorted (50R BNC terminators) directly on the scope on the first page of this thread (replies #2 and 3). You won't get quite as quiet with the probes attached and tips grounded to the earth clips.
The 1kHz probe compensation output should give you nice clean waveforms. The first thing you should do is compensate the probes to match the input capacitance of the scope - nice square traces (no overshoot or rounding). Post some images if you have problems.
I hope your new version does work with linux too, that should please a few folks. :-+
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Has anybody made any progress on linux? I have spent hours playing with libusbJava and other things I don't understand without any progress. Any combination fails to detect the scope with some error or another. Perhaps the most interesting(?) one is "ch.ntb.usb.USBException: LibusbJava.usb_set_configuration: could not set config 1: Broken pipe". That sounds like something maybe something can work.
Another thing. I usually cannot zoom from single triggering. If I single capture something changing the time base doesn't zoom or anything. Except sometimes. Stopping from "run" and changing time base works as expected. Every time.
It is hopeless to find out which version of the program one is running. I think my version is 1.3.0 (that is what the launcher jar file says), or 1.0.27 (what the install win exe says). Haven't found any "about" in the program itself.
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A client of mine has the Owon VDS1022 version (so non-isolated).
He was wondering if he could just buy a third party USB isolator adapter to make this thing isolated.
Do you guys know if that would work (with the software and all)?
I personally don't really see no reason why it wouldn't.
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- There's no difference in software between the isolated and non-isolated versions so no problem there.
- The Isolated version uses the same ADUM3160 usb full speed 12Mbps (not 480Mbps high speed) isolator IC that is used in the off-the-shelf isolators, so no problem there either. It runs quite happily at USB Full speed.
- The only potential problem is if the Isolator can't source enough power to drive the VDS1022 on the isolated side. It needs to be able to meet the USB 500mA power spec.
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- There's no difference in software between the isolated and non-isolated versions so no problem there.
- The Isolated version uses the same ADUM3160 usb full speed 12Mbps (not 480Mbps high speed) isolator IC that is used in the off-the-shelf isolators, so no problem there either. It runs quite happily at USB Full speed.
- The only potential problem is if the Isolator can't source enough power to drive the VDS1022 on the isolated side. It needs to be able to meet the USB 500mA power spec.
So I guess an isolator simply based on the ADUM3160 will do the job just perfectly fine? ;) ^-^
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Yes, ADUM3160 / ADUM4160. All you need to worry about is the size of the DC-DC converter in the isolator. The one inside the VDS1022I is rated at 2W.
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Anyway, as for the software, I did some fixes to my code and managed to make it work on OSX. Boring I know, somebody else already did this. However, my version should even work on Linux, including ARM devices (like a Raspberry for example, although I don't have any to test this on). It's also stopping to work after a while, and I'm not sure yet if it's because my code or because I have it connected through 2 hubs.
Cool! Post up the 'know how' then :-+
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Yes, that is the post. And yes, I've PM'd him directly. Thanks :)
Hey PJ,
I'll reply here as it might be useful for others too.
What version of OS X are you using? I'm on 10.11.6. I'm yet to try newer.
If you attach the scope after executing the app, does the app respond in any way?
CW.
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Hello All,
This is my first post and I greatly thank Gyro and the others for this thread.
I bought my VDS1022 due to the information put forth here and really appreciate the help cutting through the jungle of USB DSO's.
I found the isolated version very interesting, but I only have measurements on simple battery operated circuits.
I am very happy with my oscilloscope. It does what I need it for very well.
The criteria that were important to me:
1.) I could use it out in the field with no AC access
2.) Low hardware requirements for the host computer
(This was one of the main reasons. Most of the work is done
by the Hardware/Software in the oscilloscope itself as was detailed
in this thread - and in a way I could understand it :D)
3.) Round 20 Mhz bandwidth
4.) Good price
Memory depth is good enough for my applications.
Since I don't want to lug a huge notebook around with me,
I tested the Owon software on my old netbook Acer Aspire before buying.
It has a 1.66 GHz Atom N450 CPU with 1 GB Ram.
It worked just fine without a hiccup.
I did try picoscope software on this netbook.
It stalls and hiccups with it. So a no-go for me in this case.
The software on the CD is version 1.0.24 from 10.11.2016
I have downloaded and am using the latest version from Owons website which is 1.0.27
Thank You all again!
If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
All the best, Nullarbor
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Welcome to the forum Nullarbor, and thanks [Edit: for the detailed feedback]. Glad it worked out well for you - it's always nice to know when a teardown actually helps someone. :)
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@Gyro : Many thanks for taking the time to post your view on the Owon VDS1022i. :clap: Based upon that I've ordered the non-USB isolated model, the VDS1022.
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Welcome Herr Mozart (thought you were long dead!). Do report back once you get a chance to try it out. :)
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Hi everyone,
I founded this guy upgrade his scope to Isolated @20$ cost.
http://www.dalbert.net/?p=314 (http://www.dalbert.net/?p=314)
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Just a quick update.
I downloaded the latest software version for this scope.
I can't discern much difference except that the graphics are a bit different.
A pity they don't have a change log.
Here's a pic of the version I had and have now:
Yes, I am still pleased with my oscilloscope.
Have a great day, Nullarbor
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Thanks for pointing out the update Nullarbor, I hadn't seen it.
A typical Owon screw-up with the downloads... :palm:
- Going via the support tab on the VDS product page downloads V1.0.27
- Going in via their 'Download Center' offers download of V1.0.28 but when I try to download it, AVG blocks it with a "URL:Mal" infection detected! (screenshot attached).
I've sent Owon a message through their support link, so hopefully they will fix it!
In the meantime, I found a copy of V1.0.28 on this Russian language support site: https://technica-m.ru/support/type/soft (https://technica-m.ru/support/type/soft)
I've scanned the setup file with AVG and Malwarebytes but other members please use at your own risk! When installed, it gives exactly the same S/W build number as you posted.
The difference in graphics that you show is due to the Black skin being used rather than the Blue one (it can be changed at the top of the Utilities panel). Ironically the only difference I've found so far (versus V1.0.23) is that changing the skin setting seems to have been broken in V1.0.27 and then fixed again in V1.0.28! :wtf:
I agree, it's infuriating that they don't provide a change log!
Chris
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I was thinking on buying this oscilloscope and would need some advice. I am from Slovenia, currently studying mehatronics (combination of electro, computer and mechanical science). In my free time I also work with microcontrollers, audio equipment (amplifiers) and ocessional other projects and repairs.
I have been wanting oscilloscope for some time now, and checked the forums for advice. I saw that a beginner should rather get an used scope, but the cheapest decent scope I can get used is a TEKTRONIX 2213 for 180 euro. The thing is that I live in a campus and go home by bus every weekend, so I would need something portable.
Would an OWON 1022I suit me well? I can get it for 105 euro from ebay. How good is the overall build quality? How good is the current software? Any thoughts appreciated.
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I have been using my Owon VDS1022 (non insulated one) for audio purposes. I wasted a few days trying to find a problem with an amplifier that did not exist: normally when testing a new build a 1kHz square wave is used and the shape is studied. The wave exhibited considerable ripple suggesting some accidental oscillation. When I increased the frequency then at approx 7 kHz the square wave shape had completely disappeared and showed up as a sinus wave. Same thing happened with a triangular signal. At certain high frequencies the signal seemed to become unstable like it was triggering some parasitic oscillation. In the end an analog oscilloscope (genuine tube based) showed that these artifacts reside in the digital oscilloscope. Now that I know this it does not bother me but I would not advise to purchase a digital oscilloscope for high end audio work. Morgan Jones in his books is of the same opinion. Eventually digital oscilloscopes will become (or already are) good enough but at what price? For repair and adjusting (e.g. bias or phase inverters) I can get away with this cheap oscilloscope and it is far better than having no oscilloscope.
Hope this helps someone. AM
Edit 31 December 2017: The above is wrong - the square wave generated by a PC was the culprit, using the square wave from the Owon Oscilloscope itself gives a perfect result and I now wonder about some ground interaction from the PC.
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@AM: No, sorry, you've got something seriously screwy in your setup there. There's no way that it can't reproduce a clean 7kHz square wave (see attached)- it's not even breaking a sweat (12.5Msps). Maybe you can post more details of your setup, screenshots, scope setting etc. Thinking about the ripple at 1kHz, did you properly adjust the compensation of your scope probes?
P.S. Of course there's always going to be an issue measuring distortion characteristics of high-end audio components with any 8 bit resolution scope (I use a 16bit resoluton one myself for -90dB'ish level measurements), but being able to display decent sine, square and triangle waves isn't one of them. Morgan Jones (remember he was writing a while back now), recommended a minimum of 100Msps scope in order to be able to catch high frequency parasitic oscillations.
EDIT: For reference I have added a 700kHz squarewave. Function generator rise and fall times beginning to show (Spec'd at <35ns).
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I'm not sure if my issue is the same that AmadeusMozart reported, but I'm seeing very strange behavior from the scope, that I hope can be fixed by some misconfiguration on my part (or maybe I just misunderstand something).
I have 2 signals generated by an Arduino. The pins are high for 4 seconds, then low for another 4.
However, this is what I see in my scope (attached, channel 2 goes through a resistor, hence the small amplitude).
Can somebody explain why I don't see a (very slow) square signal?
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I'm not sure if my issue is the same that AmadeusMozart reported, but I'm seeing very strange behavior from the scope, that I hope can be fixed by some misconfiguration on my part (or maybe I just misunderstand something).
I have 2 signals generated by an Arduino. The pins are high for 4 seconds, then low for another 4.
However, this is what I see in my scope (attached, channel 2 goes through a resistor, hence the small amplitude).
Can somebody explain why I don't see a (very slow) square signal?
Change the channel input coupling to DC and leave it there. AC coupling is only needed for viewing signals with a large DC offset.
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Change the channel input coupling to DC and leave it there. AC coupling is only needed for viewing signals with a large DC offset.
You are of course right, thanks! I need to learn a lot :).
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I just received the VDS1022I as a Christmas gift. I haven't run Windows in years, though. I'm trying to get the software to run on Linux, but having only bad luck. I can load static captures but I can't connect to the USB interface via libUsbJava. Has anyone got it working yet?
I'm a C++ engineer, but I can read and hack at Java sometimes. I'm willing to help if someone needs it.
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There is a repository that explains how to make it work on OSX, and there is also a ticket mentioning Debian (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022/issues/4).
I also started converting the source to a modern alternative (usb4java or similar) but got too many problems, so didn't finish it.
Hopefully that will help you to make it work
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@Gyro
Thanks for the reply and apologies for the late reply.
I used the square wave from the Owon oscilloscope itself and that made the difference. It appears that the output from the square wave generated by the PC was the culprit.
I recently obtained on the local auctio website at a very reasoanable price an older distortion factor meter (only four and a half million people in New Zealand so not that much interest in test gear). Replaced two electrolytic capacitors in the power supply that had dried out and have had lots of fun with the Owon scope and the DFM. The DFM is a cheap way to measure the total noise figure of a tube amplifier - I can measure over -90dB which is good enough (for me). The non-insulated model VDS1022 has been very usefull and is imho a bargain (and the price seems to be dropping at the moment).
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Glad you got it sorted and found the culprit! :-+ ... and a good score on the distortion factor meter, it sounds as if you've got yourself a nice useable setup now.
If you're worried about PC ground loops (isn't everybody! ::)) then you could look at picking up a cheapish external USB isolator as an alternative to populating the internal PCB isolation components. We established earlier in the thread that both the isolated and non isolated versions use USB 'Full Speed' rather than 'High Speed' so are within the capabilities of the ADUM3160/4160 based ones (ADUM3160 is what is fitted internally on the 'I' version). These isolators look to be around the $10 mark from China now... https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=usb+isolator&_sop=15 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=usb+isolator&_sop=15)
The only issue you might see is their supply current capability. The isolated DC-DC converter inside the 1022I is rated at 2W, the cheap isolators look like they might be only 1W. If it's a problem you could either do a little surgery and patch on a 2W DC-DC, or alternatively hook in a regulated 5V from an isolated power brick the power the scope side.
Just a thought.
Edit: I just heard on the radio that New Zealand was the first country to celebrate the New Year (probably not for the first time! :D). A Happy New Year to you, we still have 11.5 hours to go!
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If you're worried about PC ground loops (isn't everybody! ::)) then you could look at picking up a cheapish external USB isolator as an alternative to populating the internal PCB isolation components. We established earlier in the thread that both the isolated and non isolated versions use USB 'Full Speed' rather than 'High Speed' so are within the capabilities of the ADUM3160/4160 based ones (ADUM3160 is what is fitted internally on the 'I' version). These isolators look to be around the $10 mark from China now... https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=usb+isolator&_sop=15 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=usb+isolator&_sop=15)
There are interfaces that provide a DC feed
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Low-noise-USB-Isolator-short-circuit-protection-ADUM4160-Hifi-JTAG-isolation/112195970923?hash=item1a1f66a76b:g:3AUAAOSwPgxVL63g (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Low-noise-USB-Isolator-short-circuit-protection-ADUM4160-Hifi-JTAG-isolation/112195970923?hash=item1a1f66a76b:g:3AUAAOSwPgxVL63g)
However having "grown up" with tube oscilloscopes I do not worry about the isolation. And since I am using a laptop if it is really needed then I can disconnect the laptop from everything else and cover the Owon to protect against touching and then I can use it at a floating level. I'll also be like the Chinese and then use white cotton gloves as an extra attempt against accidentally touching bare metal.
Edit: I just heard on the radio that New Zealand was the first country to celebrate the New Year (probably not for the first time! :D). A Happy New Year to you, we still have 11.5 hours to go!
Happy New year and best wishes for 2018
Marinus
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My thanks to everyone for this thread. I was looking at the Hantek and now will certainly go with the OWON instead.
- Mike
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Just bought the VDS1022.
Could not get steady picture on screen. Like no trigger.
Somehow the U12 is not installed. Just empty spot.
After I connect 110VAC via 10:1 probe I had BOOM. Is result my computer is dead (MB, SSD,HDD), on the oscilloscope board jumpers R105, R103 and R90 exploded. No other visible damages.
I replaced them with 10ohm resistors for safety reason. Now on board side it shows 0.3 ohm.
Any idea if it is still possible to fix? What should I check next?
Board is Ver 1.4
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I do not mean to seem unkind on your first post, but it is said out of concern. Connecting a scope probe input directly across the mains was a really stupid thing to do! You are not the first newbie to do it though, the mains seems like a magnet to some people :palm:! You should feel very lucky that you didn't do yourself serious harm! Equipment is replaceable, you are not.
Please refer to this video of Dave's to understand what you did...
https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ (https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ)
The same bang would have occurred whatever scope you used. You were unlucky enough to be using a USB one, which extended the damage to the PC too. The USB isolated version (the VDS1022I) would have protected the scope and the PC from damage, but you would still have been at serious risk of electric shock, shorting the mains with your ground clip probably saved you from that. From your list, it sounds like an expensive lesson.
It's very hard to predict what on your scope has been damaged - the mains current will have passed through the ground clip of your scope probe, through the circuit board and via the ground signal of the USB interface to your PC motherboard and the PC Earth connection.
Given the level of damage to the PC, I would expect a similar level of damage to the VDS1022. I would suspect that the chip associated with the USB interface has also been destroyed. I don't know what you are measuring when you say "Now on board side it shows 0.3 ohm." or whether you have replaced the exploded resistors with the correct values. There is no published schematic, so it is difficult to specify individual component IDs that might be affected (I do not have the same board Rev as you). Maybe you can post a photo showing those resistor locations.
If you check that none of the pins of the USB connector (apart from the ground pin) are shorted to ground, then you might try connecting it to the PC and seeing if it is recognized. PC USB ports are quite well protected (apart from shorting mains into them!), but unplug at the first sign of an error message. The driver will need to be installed of course.
If the VDS1022 is still recognized then it should be possible to start testing other functions using a safe signal source., eg, the probe calibration output or a cheap ebay function generator. Given the cost you have already incurred, I would recommend getting the USB isolated version (which still won't make it safe to scope the mains, but will protect the PC from accidentally introducing large low voltage currents via the ground clips).
Edit: I have been re-reading your post and am finding it a bit confusing when you say "just bought" - are you saying that you already have it working again after damaging it with the mains short and are now having triggering problems? If so, were you having them when you first got it?
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I'm not newbie but what I did was really stupid. I don't you scope much. I did not realize the 10:1 probe has one simple resistor and ground goes direct. 0.3 \$\Omega\$measured between 0 and 5v chips supply. The reason I need to see 110/220V. I bought device should be supply 220V 50Hz. and I'm making inverter to meet my needs.
Originally exploded resistors are 0 \$\Omega\$. I put 10 \$\Omega\$ for testing. So all 5V drops across this resistors.
After I bought it I tested in with low voltage signal and found out that picture is no steady. Connected to USB3.0 it cannot be even seen. Much better on USB2.0. And it nothing changes with different trigger level. Would it be possible the U12 was not install during manufacturing and as result not steady picture. If you give me your e-mail I can send full size board pictures.
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Ok, I get the picture, I think...
I managed to located R105 at least on one of Mark_O's photos of his Rev 1.4 board (bottom of page 1 of this thread), it is one of the resistors that links the board ground to the USB ground - it bypasses the gap in the grounds that would be there on the isolated model.
If R105 blew open then all of the mains current will have passed through the logic ICs and supply regulators to the USB signal lines and USB Vbus line to the PC. At the very least this will have destroyed the USB interface logic (inside the CPU) and probably most of the rest of the logic, regulators etc. The 0.3 Ohms that you are reading between +5V and 0V is probably the resistance of your meter leads, the board is probably dead short. I don't see any possibility of salvaging the board in these circumstances - it is fried! [Edit: Slight correction, from your photos... R105 is in the 5V USB supply, R90 and R103 are the USB ground link, from the scorch marks, the ground obviously went first, then the +5V, then the USB signals, that was severe!]
It is too late to understand your triggering problems now, it could well have been a settings issue, trigger level / source etc. It wouldn't have been a USB speed related issue as the VDS1022 only requires low USB speed (USB Full speed, not High Speed).
Regarding U12 being missing, this is an analogue video sync separator chip, only used for video mode triggering. I'm not sure why it wasn't fitted, maybe they removed this functionality, I don't know, it was fitted Mark's Rev 1.4 board. As I say, it wouldn't be needed of any normal triggering modes so wouldn't have been the cause of your problem anyway.
There's obviously no way now to check what trigger settings might have been wrong, or even using the 'autoset' function now, sorry.
Maybe you could talk to Owon about having a board with missing U12, they might be generous about the damage issue.
Edit: I have now seen the photos you added, thanks. It confirms my diagnosis above - there was a lot of current involved.
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Thank you for your answer.
I knew the damage is big, at least MC is gone. It is easy to replace it but where to get firmware for it :-//
Looks like I will get replacement for it (cross fingers) and I don't want to destroy it as well. So here are few questions related to this.
What other differences between 1022 and 1022I exept U37 and U9? What I found else I have metalized sides of board unlike others. This makes oscilloscope case grounded. I was lucky I did not hold it in hands. The strange thing this is same board version.
So on my replacement (if I get it) Im going to install U9 and U37, remove 8 resistors and isolate board from case. Anything else?
I need to be able to see the form of 220V inverter output. VDS1022I rated 400V.
About OWON.
I tried to contact them with no answer.
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You're welcome, sorry it wasn't a more hopeful one. I think it is still Chinese New Year holiday at the moment, so I wouldn't expect a fast answer from Owon.
Even if you could get a replacement microcontroller, I wouldn't be surprised to find wider damage from the mains voltage passing across the chip, eg. The FPGA, or ADC.
Yes, the 'non-Isolated and Isolated versions share the same PCB. The main differences, as you found, are U37 - ADuM3160 USB Isolator, U9 - TI DCP020505P 2W DC-DC converter, and removing the components that bypass them. There are some supply decoupling capacitors around U37 but I think they are populated by default - check the chip datasheet.
I'm not sure about costs - particularly sourcing the DC-DC converter. I remember someone did their own conversion earlier in the thread but not sure how much they saved relative to the VDS1022 / VDS1022I purchase price difference. There is also the warranty (3yrs?) to consider.
As you have worked out, the metal case is connected to the BNC connector shields, so yes, it would have become live (I would have hoped that a circuit breaker would have popped by that point, given the level of damage).
I need to be very clear here... The USB isolation is there to protect the scope and the PC against accidental high current ground loops (at low voltage) and to reduce noise pickup from ground loops. Even though the isolation components do have high voltage ratings, it is not intended for floating the scope ground at high voltages! - I would be very stupid to advise you otherwise. Accidents can happen all too easily, as you have found, even when experienced. You could still suffer a very nasty bang and live case if, say, you accidentally connected the ground clip of one probe to Live and the ground clip of the other to Neutral! From your replies, I think you have a good understanding of the risks.
The safe way to scope around mains is with a CAT rated high voltage differential probe... or one of those fancy Fluke portable scopes with individually isolated channels.
P.S. From your second reply it looks as if you are trying to make an "inverter" to power a 220V 50Hz device - I don't know what the device is, but wouldn't a simple step-up transformer do? If it's a 50Hz / 60Hz issue then most things don't care - particularly running a 50Hz device at 60Hz as you are less likely to run into transformer core saturation issues than going to a lower frequency. You ought to be able to sort out phasing on something like that with a meter. Just a thought.
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Then why yours vds1022I is rated 400V input voltage (so you ARE able to apply 220v to 10:1 probes) and what is the reason to supply 10:1 probes (600V rated) with VDS1022 (rated 40V) which has 5v/div without devider. Would I have same damages if connected to laptop(not grounded)? Would you recommend me simple schematic of high voltage devider I can use with 220VAC?
Looks like I had 50% chance to destroy it and I took it by connecting ground clip to "L". If I connected it to "N"... To late anyway.
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I agree, the spec is confusing - I understand it as 40V peak input protection at the BNC, 400V peak with the included 10:1 probe. I don't know why they choose to specify it differently for the two scopes - they are obviously the same analogue front end circuits.
....(so you ARE able to apply 220v to 10:1 probes) and what is the reason to supply 10:1 probes (600V rated)...
Sure you are, although I wouldn't want to push the limits of low cost Chinese scope probes too close to their limits - That's NOT the same as connecting it to the Mains though. Most scopes are not CAT rated for mains use... Prospective fault energy (you should know about that by now!), transients etc. That rated voltage is probe tip relative to the ground clip - you have no safe place to put the ground clip if you are scoping mains! There's no guarantee that the Neutral is at the same potential as Earth (Ground), especially in supply fault or transient conditions.
Would I have same damages if connected to laptop(not grounded)?
Yes, the same unsafe situation - if you accidentally connect the ground clip to Live then all exposed metalwork on the laptop (connector shells etc) become live too. That is why the old practice of lifting the mains ground wires on bench scopes is also forbidden.
USB isolation and floating laptop are both used as methods of breaking ground loops to reduce measurement noise or protecting the equipment against damage from reasonable fault situations. Unfortunately any possibility of connecting the ground clip to Mains Live is NOT a reasonable fault situation!
Would you recommend me simple schematic of high voltage devider I can use with 220VAC?
This is where the High Voltage Differential Probe comes in, as I indicated previously. It has two 'tip' inputs and no ground clip. It safely translates the difference between the inputs into a signal suitable for feeding into grounded scopes. They carry the appropriate CAT safety ratings.
Direct scoping of the mains is a pretty uncommon thing to do. People who do it are usually equipped with the appropriately CAT rated equipment eg. at least CAT II, 300V for your situation. (MOST scopes are not CAT safety rated). When working on mains equipment an alternative is to use a mains safety isolating transformer to power the DUT (Device under Test), this has it's own risks but the rule is that you always use the isolating transformer to power the DUT, not the test equipment. Using an isolating transformer carries its own risks and need for precautions.
Please review the "How not to blow up your scope" video that I linked (I seem to be doing all the work here) - it covers most of the issues we are talking about here. There are many other safety related threads (including use of Safety Isolation transformers) if you do a forum search.
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Just noticed OWON VDS1022 software revision increased from 1.0.27 to 1.0.28 not sure when it happened, no revision history, downloaded it and have yet to spot the differance :)
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Just noticed OWON VDS1022 software revision increased from 1.0.27 to 1.0.28 not sure when it happened, no revision history, downloaded it and have yet to spot the differance :)
Perhaps they just fixed a Chinese word spelling and released a new minor release. They are the most laziest T&M manufacture when it comes to supporting and improving their firmwares and softwares.
I don't understand why people buy their stuff and how they are still in the business.
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Just noticed OWON VDS1022 software revision increased from 1.0.27 to 1.0.28 not sure when it happened, no revision history, downloaded it and have yet to spot the differance :)
This version got first got flagged by Nullarbour back in October last year (Reply #211). The main difference seems to be to repair a bug in skin selection that they screwed up in 1.0.27, which previously worked fine! ...
...
The difference in graphics that you show is due to the Black skin being used rather than the Blue one (it can be changed at the top of the Utilities panel). Ironically the only difference I've found so far (versus V1.0.23) is that changing the skin setting seems to have been broken in V1.0.27 and then fixed again in V1.0.28! :wtf:
...
I've been running V1.0.28 since then without significant problems - I think I encountered a crash when trying to stop and save an image. I can't remember the detail now but it don't think it happened on V1.0.23.
I have copies of the released (there are gaps) s/w distributions going back to V1.0.4 if anyone wants to play detective (it's interesting to open the .exe files as archives using 7zip or whatever and look inside). I don't think it's worth using anything before V1.0.23 which I've never found a bug in, V1.0.11 at the very earliest (that one, I know, fixed a menu bug that I reported), V1.0.27 as I said, has the skin selection bug.
It really is annoying that they don't publish a change log!
EDIT: I may as well upload anyway - it would be useful if a few other people also had backups in case of loss. Run whatever scans you feel appropriate, I've run AVG and Malwarebytes on them....
https://ufile.io/70a4d (https://ufile.io/70a4d) (Available for 30 days)
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Just for fun: OS X updates
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022
Busy year, so this got neglected. But I had a fresh install of 'macOS' (10.13.3) and thought I'd plug the scope in and fix up the scripts.
Fixes:
- Dumb typo - 'Owen' :wtf:
- Latest 1.0.29 release.
- Added missing usbLib files.
- Changed the bootstrap script from pure 'bash' to AppleScript & 'bash' to simplify the driver install*.
(* I think later OS X builds are stricter for arbitrary folder access, so we need to elevate the privileges when copying the usblib files. Using just bash would never show the sudo password prompt, so instead it'll prompt to run the script instead.)
Remember to run a calibration.
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I spotted 1.0.23 -> 1.0.29 that 'com.google.gson_2.1.0.v201203072145.jar' has appeared.
Are they calling home now?
I hadn't seen/used any build between those versions, so dont know when it was added.
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Just for fun: OS X updates
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022
Busy year, so this got neglected. But I had a fresh install of 'macOS' (10.13.3) and thought I'd plug the scope in and fix up the scripts.
CatWhisker many thanks for the upgrade.
I don't have VDS1022 yet but I plan to buy it. I have just installed the application on my MacBook Air according to your description.
It seems to be working properly, but I had to change the folder as below:
OSX:
Copy libusbpp-legacy-0.1.4.dylib to /opt/local/lib/libusb-legacy/ (Note: On OS X, these folders may need creating)
Copy libusb-0.1.4.dylib to /usr/local/lib
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Question for any 1022 owners: I just got one of these, but it periodically pops an error message up and had to reconnect. I'm assuming that's not normal, but thought I'd check if anyone else has this issue.
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It seems to be working properly, but I had to change the folder as below:
Copy libusb-0.1.4.dylib to /usr/local/lib
That should only apply only to the manual install guide. Thanks for spotting that.
Most OS X users should just grab the Owon-VDS-OSX.zip and use that.
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Question for any 1022 owners: I just got one of these, but it periodically pops an error message up and had to reconnect. I'm assuming that's not normal, but thought I'd check if anyone else has this issue.
No, not a common problem I don't think. The 1022 is very undemanding in terms of USB bandwidth etc.
A couple of points that come to mind...
- USB port, try another one. Maybe the socket has got loose and is glitching the power. Does wiggling the USB connector provoke anything? Power requirement is under 400mA so shouldn't be an issue, even for older laptops.
- Assuming that you do not have the USB isolated 1022I, do you have a ground loop that is injecting current via the USB ground. Does it coincide with attaching probe ground clips, does it still happen with probes isolated.
- What os version and S/W version are you running? Does anything in particular provoke the problem?
That's about all I can think of, off hand.
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I had same issue with periodical reconnecting. After I converted it to "I" this issue disappeared.
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Yes, it happens with other USB ports, no it doesn't happen when I jiggle the USB cable.
I'm not entirely surprised. I got it used directly from Amazon ("Like new"). I think it was returned, and I may have an explanation why. :)
So much for getting a good deal, now I need to decide what I'm going to do for a working Oscilloscope...
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Good to know. Due to various circumstances, Amazon offered to send me a non-used one, and they said since the shipping on a 1022 put it over the price of an I, they ended up sending me the isolated version. Can't complain. Hopefully it solves my problem, too!
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... and they said since the shipping on a 1022 put it over the price of an I, they ended up sending me the isolated version.
That sounds like a win! :-+
Ground loops can be a real issue for any non-isolated usb connected equipment - up to and including total destruction of the scope and PC (see Reply #225 as just one extreme example).
You may want to investigate a little further - try putting a meter between a connector shield on your computer and to point where you were connecting your ground clip and see if there is any voltage present (DC and AC). It may give an insight into the possible ground loop path. It's a worthwhile exercise (educational at least) in case you pick up a low cost logic analyser or other equipment. I suspect that in your case, the voltage will be very low, but the loop resistance is also low, so surprising currents can still flow, enough to disrupt USB comms.
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Question for any 1022 owners: I just got one of these, but it periodically pops an error message up and had to reconnect. I'm assuming that's not normal, but thought I'd check if anyone else has this issue.
No, not a common problem I don't think. The 1022 is very undemanding in terms of USB bandwidth etc.
I second this. I had mine running for the last ~4 hours to check if it happened to me - still stable.
Rather than another USB port, I suggest another PC if possible - drivers, internal hubs, shared chipset - can be a pig if the device is easily startled.
Especially if you have any funky USB stuff installed (USB sniffers, Wireshark USB tools, VM tools and the like).
FYI: Using 1.0.29 build on OS X.
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...
- Latest 1.0.29 release.
Remember to run a calibration. ...
I don't have apple stuff, but nonetheless thank you CatWhisker for the info on the latest release AND ESPECIALLY the reminder to recalibrate.
I was having problems with my OWON 1022:
- DC levels were off by a long shot (showing say 9 volts instead of 5 volts)
- When in AC mode, the NULL level of the traces shifted up in steps when changing
sensitivity (50mV, 100mV, etc). This repeated itself starting with 1V again from NULL. That was strange, so I decided to look here.
I thought my Owon hat gotten defective and was contemplating calling the vendor.
I installed the 1.0.29 software and went into the calibration mode.
It got stuck there on about 20% of the bar. I left it on for an hour.
Frustrated, I re-booted and erased all traces of the OWON software on the Netbook and Registry (it's windows 7).
In hindsight: this Netbook has no access to the internet, so it might have to do with this, since you mentioned the new version may want to "phone home".
Well spotted if I may say!
I installed version 28 and went into calibration mode. It went well and the DC levels
are correct again and the the AC levels at NULL are solid now too when switching through the voltage range.
I was very relieved about this, but have no clue as to what had gone wrong.
If something like this happens again I will film it.
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Question for any 1022 owners: I just got one of these, but it periodically pops an error message up and had to reconnect. I'm assuming that's not normal, but thought I'd check if anyone else has this issue.
I have this problem, but rarely. I just unplug and plug in again.
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... and they said since the shipping on a 1022 put it over the price of an I, they ended up sending me the isolated version.
That sounds like a win! :-+
Ground loops can be a real issue for any non-isolated usb connected equipment - up to and including total destruction of the scope and PC (see Reply #225 as just one extreme example).
You may want to investigate a little further - try putting a meter between a connector shield on your computer and to point where you were connecting your ground clip and see if there is any voltage present (DC and AC). It may give an insight into the possible ground loop path. It's a worthwhile exercise (educational at least) in case you pick up a low cost logic analyser or other equipment. I suspect that in your case, the voltage will be very low, but the loop resistance is also low, so surprising currents can still flow, enough to disrupt USB comms.
Interesting!
I just measured this with my simple means and get the following values:
32mV (from USB metal to probe GND)
2.4mA (from USB metal to probe GND)
Hope I measured this right.
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Interesting, as you say. The 32mV measurement confirms that there are no floating supplies, Y cap leakages etc. involved, ie. everything is grounded.
The fact that you were able to measure 2.4mA though a DMM current range (with its reasonably high value internal shunt resistor) implies that with a low impedance connection through the ground clip and PC ground the current could be significantly higher. It shows that 'Ground' really never is, when you consider voltage drops across current carrying conductors. There might also be some higher frequency currents involved that your meter wouldn't be able to detect.
This sort of low voltage, low impedance, hash is just the sort of thing that USB isolation is useful for, both to prevent circulating ground currents and reducing measurement noise.
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In hindsight: this Netbook has no access to the internet, so it might have to do with this, since you mentioned the new version may want to "phone home".
Poking around at the source, there is no 'phone home' feature - the devs are just leveraging GSON library as a better/cleaner mechanism for storing settings.
That's not to say the Google library isn't itself phoning Google, I havn't looked there yet, but at least Owon are behaving here.
In other news, for OS X users: If anyone wants to try a 'native' style package, grab the WIP archive from https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022 (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022)
Notes:
Some features (like 'save to bitmap') doesn't work yet.
Driver install isn't done.
'Help' works (re-packed as a PDF, rather than CHM).
'Update' button removed.
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There seems to be a problem with the 1.0.29 Software.
I installed it and tried calibrating again. It gets stuck at the beginning now.
There is no change in behaviour when the netbook is connected to the internet,
so it has nothing to do with my netbook not being online before.
When clicking "cancel" and then "yes" to the stuck calibration procedure, nothing happens. I had to kill it with the task manager.
I deleted all files of the Owon and installed Version 28 again.
The calibration works just fine again in this version.
Any ideas?
Happy Easter!
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Interesting, as you say. The 32mV measurement confirms that there are no floating supplies, Y cap leakages etc. involved, ie. everything is grounded.
The fact that you were able to measure 2.4mA though a DMM current range (with its reasonably high value internal shunt resistor) implies that with a low impedance connection through the ground clip and PC ground the current could be significantly higher. It shows that 'Ground' really never is, when you consider voltage drops across current carrying conductors. There might also be some higher frequency currents involved that your meter wouldn't be able to detect.
This sort of low voltage, low impedance, hash is just the sort of thing that USB isolation is useful for, both to prevent circulating ground currents and reducing measurement noise.
Thank you Gyro. I will keep an eye on that, hopefully learning more.
Does what you're saying mean that all "normal" NON-ISOLATED oscilloscopes
are somewhat inferior to the isolated ones (which are quite rare)?
Thank You!
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Haha, well I think you'd get some get some indignation from folks with "normal" scopes that their units were "somewhat inferior" ;)
However, yes, any system which involves ground loops, particularly where that loop path passes through mains ground is subject to issues. Audio systems, for instance, tend to suffer from hum problems if audio ground connects to mains ground in both 'sources' and amplifiers. What it does mean is that you need to always take ground loops into account when measuring - one of the reasons why many Bench PSUs have floating output and separate mains ground terminal. The ideal is to have the 'system' reference to mains ground at a single point, often not possible in the real world with several pieces of grounded test equipment and debugging on a piece of equipment that is also mains ground referenced. Not a show stopper, but something certainly to be aware of.
The problem is particularly bad with USB instruments though. Computer USB ports are fairly fragile, the USB spec specifies that the outer braid and connector shells should only be grounded at the PC end so, for instruments that follow the spec, the only ground return path is the little black wire in the USB cable. In fault situations where significant current flows through the earth clip, the black wire fries, followed almost instantly by the USB 5V and data signals! It also means that noise levels can be higher than integrated bench type scopes. That makes the USB isolation in the Owon (I) versions highly desirable, as far as I'm aware they are the only low cost USB scopes that can do this, Hanteks (not sure about the Siglent Analog discovery products I haven't looked into them) and the like like rely on lots of USB bandwidth - beyond the reach of current USB isolator chips.
Sorry, I'm rambling a bit. In terms of noise, it isn't too critical for an 8 bit scope like the VDS1022(I), but the isolation does give some benefit and most importantly in protecting the PC from damage. Any situation where a low voltage low impedance current could potentially flow through the ground loop will benefit from isolation.
Once you get into the realms of sensitive or precision measurements are involved, then various measures become applicable, I mentioned single point system grounding, there are also differential probes for common mode rejection, decent bench meters have floating inputs with a separate guard terminal, both screened from mains ground, etc.
Thanks for flagging the bug in the 1.0.29 S/W it adds to the group inteligence in lieu of release notes! - Owon do seem pretty accident prone. You may have seen a few posts back, that I uploaded my collection of previous S/W versions (I see it still has a week to run). If you have any problems with 1.0.28, then I used 1.0.23 for a long time without noticing any issues... https://uploadfiles.io/70a4d (https://uploadfiles.io/70a4d) (appropriate virus check cautions apply!).
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recently i have opened up my OWON VDS1022(non isolation version) as there was nothing left in my home for teardown & discovered that copper strip is not making any contact with the outer shell that should act as a Electromagnetic shield. i have fixed that issue,all owner of OWON VDS1022/OWON VDS1022i should check for it.also discovered that lowest volts/div(5mv) without any probe the amount of average noise vpp&vrms depends on the computer/laptop usb ports. some ports induce less noise,some ports induce more noise,you have to discover which usb port is best for your lowest volts/div measurement.some channel are also by born more noise free then other channel,for example my channel 1 with settings(5mv volts/div,1ms,DC,without any probe,persistence: infinite & make sure that other channel is off.if you turn on other channel or turn on other channel and make it off again in that case you will not get much lower sensitivity until you power off the device and turn on with only that by born less noisy channel) i can get vpp: .600mv vrms: .138mv where my 2nd channel never reach close to that level what ever i do.Someone have success with owon VDS1022 software to run on OSX & Debian, i have tried on raspbian but no success(software works but device not found),is there any one who have tried owon VDS1022 on Raspberry Pi??? it will be then great DIY handheld oscilloscope with display & touch interface!
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Interesting input Riaj159, I guess that copper strip is easily damaged by the sharp front edge of the Aluminium case shell extrusion whenever the board is inserted.
My early revision VDS1022I (photos on page 1 of this thread) didn't have the copper strip fitted, it was a later addition (it was there by the revision that Mark_O purchased). I checked today, and my case is reliably floating relative to the front panel ground.
Your post reminded me that I need to do some noise comparisons on my 'I' version to see what effect grounding the case to input ground has at low levels. On the one hand, the floating case makes accidents less likely, on the other, it may increase noise and if it does suffer insulation breakdown then I'm uncertain what part of the board would be 'struck' first. Not a problem in practice as it would be very bad to float the ground leads on any scope to anywhere near enough voltage to cause insulation breakdown, even a well isolated one.
I'm also curious about the progress on other platforms, it's all gone a bit quiet. I'm now a Raspberry Pi owner too and I agree, it would make a very nice portable touch screen setup.
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tnx gyro for reply,I am also interested about the effect of grounding the case on the isolated version.what if i replace the on board 100mhz clock with 125mhz clock for the sake of overclocking the ADC??? my unit have the MXT2088(equivalent to AD9288 ). hantek dso5102p oscilloscope actually use same ADC but let them run at 125mhz by overclocking so that they can achieve 1gsps with 8 ADC(physically 4 AD9288 ).Though 125mhz might not be guaranteed to achievable due to stability in every case & what will be the consequence on the FPGA site is unknown,also owon software might be another issue related to time base(maybe there is hope as owon software released with code? ).currently don't have any 125mhz near clock source,but it’s just a thought...or i'm too greedy for extra bandwidth ::) >:D .
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Haha, yes, I think you are too greedy for extra bandwidth - actually you mean sample rate, the bandwidth is a measure of the analogue input stage frequency response and rise time.
I don't know for sure, but I think overclocking at 125MHz without changes to the FPGA code or PC software would lead to some strange results. At minimum I think all the measurements and timebases would be off. I don't think anyone has reverse engineered the FPGA code.
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tnx for sharing your opinion gyro :) :) :)
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I got a VDS1022I very cheaply from aliexpress recently. It's a nice toy and really portable which is great; thanks for all the commentary in this thread, I appreciated it. Not yet sure if it has actual value as a scope but we'll see.. :)
To talk to it over USB, you just need to upload the bitstream and then send a bunch of pretty simple commands. I started work on a sigrok driver a few days ago; I plan to finish+upstream it, but just in case I get bored first then I'll keep the unfinished code on my github for anyone who comes after me (right now it's a mess which just hard-codes all the settings, but hey, the signal *looks* OK in pulseview as long as you don't look at the scale).
It looks like the VDS1022(I), the VDS2052 and the RDS1021 are all very similar ('tiny' models), with this 5K internal buffer on an internal MCU. They seem to need slightly different commands but hopefully adding support for the other models should be simple enough if anyone ever wants this. :)
The higher-end models ('smart' models: VDS 2062,2064,3102,3104) seem to be very different, and they talk SCPI instead.
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Hello dear! How can you solve the problem of spontaneous disconnection of 1022 from the control program in a few minutes use? the device I have more than two years and this problem is not corrected with the update of the software - this is repeated on different computers under Windows 10
Thank you ::)
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@noopwafel have you managed to initialize it following the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual" ?
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Quote from: nzasch on Today at 01:26:44 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=52992.msg1804022#msg1804022)
@noopwafel have you managed to initialize it following the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual" ?
No, the 'tiny' scopes don't seem to support anything that complicated, they just provide chunks of raw data from the FPGA and you need to do quite a lot of initialization/configuration (including uploading the FPGA bitstream and downloading the calibration data - they don't even handle the calibration internally). They will reset themselves (which I guess might be responsible for disconnections) if the host doesn't send a command for more than a few seconds, or the communication desynchronizes. My VDS1022I will keep capturing for quite a long time (via USB2) via my sigrok driver without any apparent problems, but I didn't try the Windows software for more than a few minutes (just enough to get a packet capture).
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I'm trying to write a C client with libusb for measurements, but after finding+opening the device, the device reply is the same whatever command I send (START, STARTBIN ecc). if I try to bulkread the data, it gives usb timeout.
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I'm trying to write a C client with libusb for measurements, but after finding+opening the device, the device reply is the same whatever command I send (START, STARTBIN ecc). if I try to bulkread the data, it gives usb timeout.
This is an older version of the OWON software which includes the original source code. Create a breakpoint in the Main file in owon.vds.tiny then debug it. When you get to the initialization code watch the steps carefully and emulate it in your own software.
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/blob/129a3b4582030e3c52d49969dcf5059f0e2a3fb6/Owon-VDS1022-OSX.zip (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/blob/129a3b4582030e3c52d49969dcf5059f0e2a3fb6/Owon-VDS1022-OSX.zip)
As a side not they have Chinese comments in the code which I put through google translate. One of the comments speak about porting to Android so I wonder when they'll have that ready. 1022i + Cheap android tablet + battery pack is basically like having a handheld portable oscilloscope.
Quote from: nzasch on Today at 01:26:44 am (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=52992.msg1804022#msg1804022)@noopwafel have you managed to initialize it following the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual" ?
No, the 'tiny' scopes don't seem to support anything that complicated, they just provide chunks of raw data from the FPGA and you need to do quite a lot of initialization/configuration (including uploading the FPGA bitstream and downloading the calibration data - they don't even handle the calibration internally). They will reset themselves (which I guess might be responsible for disconnections) if the host doesn't send a command for more than a few seconds, or the communication desynchronizes. My VDS1022I will keep capturing for quite a long time (via USB2) via my sigrok driver without any apparent problems, but I didn't try the Windows software for more than a few minutes (just enough to get a packet capture).
noopwafel can you quickly describe your build environment? I can't seem to get your libsigrok working. Not asking for much I just want to know exactly what versions of pulseview, libsigrokdecode, libserialport that you are using so I can get it to work with your driver. Thanks.
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So I modified the software a bit. Just a UI change for now:
https://github.com/AbirFaisal/RealScope/releases/download/VDS-1.0.23_RS-0.1.0/Working.zip
Source: https://github.com/AbirFaisal/RealScope
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Had anyone get the VDS 1022I worked on Linux? I've use Ubuntu 18.04.1 and had tried https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022 and it doesn't work after following the instructions. My lsusb shows my scope as a Owon PDS6062T.
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I've just noticed that version 1.0.30 of the VDS1022(i) windows s/w is up on the Owon site, it's apparently been there since July. As usual, no release notes but it hopefully fixes problems in 1.0.29.
I've installed it but not hooked it up to the scope yet - I can't see any feature differences though.
http://www.owon.com.hk/supports_pc_software (http://www.owon.com.hk/supports_pc_software)
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Had anyone get the VDS 1022I worked on Linux? I've use Ubuntu 18.04.1 and had tried https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022 (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022) and it doesn't work after following the instructions. My lsusb shows my scope as a Owon PDS6062T.
FYI, the "PDS6062T" listing is just part of the lookup table in the Linux kernel, because it shares the same PID/VID. AFAIK, that's all it shares though.
We could possibly email the usb id's maintainer to make it generic? PDS6062T Oscilloscope -> OWON USB Oscilloscope
http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids (http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids)
GreySpammer-Tir had success/progress I believe in getting the USB driver working:
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/issues/6#issuecomment-433426973 (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/issues/6#issuecomment-433426973)
I'm yet to find time to revisit the Linux package, but I'll probably sort a script over the holiday period.
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Had anyone get the VDS 1022I worked on Linux? I've use Ubuntu 18.04.1 and had tried https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022 (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022) and it doesn't work after following the instructions. My lsusb shows my scope as a Owon PDS6062T.
FYI, the "PDS6062T" listing is just part of the lookup table in the Linux kernel, because it shares the same PID/VID. AFAIK, that's all it shares though.
We could possibly email the usb id's maintainer to make it generic? PDS6062T Oscilloscope -> OWON USB Oscilloscope
http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids (http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids)
GreySpammer-Tir had success/progress I believe in getting the USB driver working:
https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/issues/6#issuecomment-433426973 (https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owon-VDS1022/issues/6#issuecomment-433426973)
I'm yet to find time to revisit the Linux package, but I'll probably sort a script over the holiday period.
That would be very appreciating :)
Gesendet von meinem G8341 mit Tapatalk
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At the request of another member, I have uploaded my personal unofficial archive of previous VDS1022(I) PC software versions to Uploadfiles.io again. The files have been checked with AVG and Malwarebytes but take it at your own risk.
The URL is ... https://ufile.io/v2ytf (https://ufile.io/v2ytf) It will be there for the next 30 days again, so grab it if you want it.
I don't know which versions included the source code (or whether they still do). The individual .exe's can be opened as a 7zip archives anyway so, if interested, you can take a look.
P.S. If anyone can work out how to change the 'Save waveform' button on the main screen from saving a .txt to saving an image file, you'll make me a very happy camper - it's a pain having to go to the Utility menu to do it!
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Just picked up a VDS1022I to live in my laptop bag for all the times when "I didn't think I'd need to bring a scope".
Kudos to OWON for making a low-cost USB box called "Oscilloscope" which appears to actually have an oscilloscope in it! I've tried a few others and they have been universally terrible, appearing to be nothing more than USB sampling/streaming devices which "don't quite" send a consistent stream of samples to bad PC software.
This one seems much better (ie: It actually works!).
Have seen a few glitches in the software, most of which are livable, however I've encountered one thing that as really annoying, and I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this and/or if workarounds are known.
Problem is when I want to "zoom in" on a captured waveform .. With the scope stopped, I can change the horizontal timebase and pan around an expanded image ... SOMETIMES ... certain captures just don't let me do this. For example, if I capture at 100us/div, I can "zoom" to 10us/div (10 times). But I can't capture at 1000us/div (1ms/div) and zoom to 100us/div ... just no change in the displayed waveform.
Second part of the problem is when I want to proceed and perform another capture after stopping and zooming. Upon hitting "start", the software freezes, and does one of:
- Hang forever
- Long delay (often minutes) then "just terminate"
- Long delay (as above) then scope disconnects and reconnects and capture proceeds
My scope came with software version 1.0.29 .. I've tried the latest (1.0.30) and several previous releases all with the same results.
Going back as far as 1.0.23, I get different (and better) results:
- Scope almost always lets me zoom, no matter what the capture rate.
- Still has trouble starting another capture, but device disconnects/reconnects within a few seconds and capture proceeds.
So, 1.0.23 is workable, but I wonder what "fixes" I'm giving up...
Has anyone else encountered this? Any workarounds?
Is there a better way to zoom in on a captured waveform that I just haven't found?
It would have been really nice if they made the "zoom" function in the horizontal menu work as a zoom/review when the scope is stopped instead of just telling you to screw off and come back when the scope is running.
Regards,
Dave
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I've found that the latest VDS1022 firmware seems do not allow incremental transfer of the new data in slow sampling rate mode. It just continuously write on the 5K data buffer in loop without any indication of the current cursor position |O. This make impossible to do continuous data recording and if so it's a bit a pity for so well equipped hardware.
Any hint about this?
By the way I'm implementing the support for the VDS1022 under Android. I'm wondering if any wish to do some test :bullshit:, I may provide some promo codes to the first who ask @ support[at]martinloren.com. It requires USB OTG and maybe some powered USB HUB if phone current from USB is not enough :D.
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Just picked up a VDS1022I to live in my laptop bag for all the times when "I didn't think I'd need to bring a scope".
Kudos to OWON for making a low-cost USB box called "Oscilloscope" which appears to actually have an oscilloscope in it! I've tried a few others and they have been universally terrible, appearing to be nothing more than USB sampling/streaming devices which "don't quite" send a consistent stream of samples to bad PC software.
This one seems much better (ie: It actually works!).
Have seen a few glitches in the software, most of which are livable, however I've encountered one thing that as really annoying, and I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this and/or if workarounds are known.
Problem is when I want to "zoom in" on a captured waveform .. With the scope stopped, I can change the horizontal timebase and pan around an expanded image ... SOMETIMES ... certain captures just don't let me do this. For example, if I capture at 100us/div, I can "zoom" to 10us/div (10 times). But I can't capture at 1000us/div (1ms/div) and zoom to 100us/div ... just no change in the displayed waveform.
Second part of the problem is when I want to proceed and perform another capture after stopping and zooming. Upon hitting "start", the software freezes, and does one of:
- Hang forever
- Long delay (often minutes) then "just terminate"
- Long delay (as above) then scope disconnects and reconnects and capture proceeds
My scope came with software version 1.0.29 .. I've tried the latest (1.0.30) and several previous releases all with the same results.
Going back as far as 1.0.23, I get different (and better) results:
- Scope almost always lets me zoom, no matter what the capture rate.
- Still has trouble starting another capture, but device disconnects/reconnects within a few seconds and capture proceeds.
So, 1.0.23 is workable, but I wonder what "fixes" I'm giving up...
Has anyone else encountered this? Any workarounds?
Is there a better way to zoom in on a captured waveform that I just haven't found?
It would have been really nice if they made the "zoom" function in the horizontal menu work as a zoom/review when the scope is stopped instead of just telling you to screw off and come back when the scope is running.
Regards,
Dave
Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.
Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes... The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.
I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?
I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.
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I've found that the latest VDS1022 firmware seems do not allow incremental transfer of the new data in slow sampling rate mode. It just continuously write on the 5K data buffer in loop without any indication of the current cursor position |O. This make impossible to do continuous data recording and if so it's a bit a pity for so well equipped hardware.
Any hint about this?
By the way I'm implementing the support for the VDS1022 under Android. I'm wondering if any wish to do some test :bullshit:, I may provide some promo codes to the first who ask @ support[at]martinloren.com. It requires USB OTG and maybe some powered USB HUB if phone current from USB is not enough :D.
That sounds like a good idea - I know there are a few folks playing around with porting to linux, potentially for the Raspberry Pi as a portable solution. Unfortunately there is very little known about the FPGA bitstream and f/w apart from observing it as you are. There must surely be a mechanism at work otherwise there would be no way of syncing correctly to the display. No idea about any USB OTG implications.
Sorry, it's not my area but hopefully one of the Linux guys may more idea.
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There must surely be a mechanism at work otherwise there would be no way of syncing correctly to the display.
It seems that the current mechanism is simply to plot on screen the 5K sample buffer as it is. The FPGA write on the buffer in a loop and send it properly shifted to the App that simply show is as is on the screen. No synchronization required, it just show you the fixed buffer while it is overwritten with new values. So visually maybe your eyes can follow it but programmatically it may require cross correlation with a window made of a group of latest samples :palm:.
The other option would be if other commands are present in the firmware (but not used buy the current software). In the original jar package there is a class called InfiniteGetData that seems to do this but seems also to be old, it is unused and if send these commands to the device they does not work.
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Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.
Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes... The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.
I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?
I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.
Thanks for the info. So far I've not noticed anything new past 1.0.23 either.
I have tried setting the timebase back to the original capture before proceeding, and it still hangs. Very odd - even 5k points is worth being able to zoom in (my TDS210 has only 2.5k and I zoom in with it all the time).
I'd be curious to know if you can reproduce the issue - just do a capture, stop the scope, adjust horizontal to "zoom in", then just start the scope again. For me it hangs very often. 1.0.23 recovers quite quickly, but you will still see a reconnecting message ... just would like to confirm it's not something "special" about my scope/setup.
Dave
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I've found that the latest VDS1022 firmware seems do not allow incremental transfer of the new data in slow sampling rate mode. It just continuously write on the 5K data buffer in loop without any indication of the current cursor position |O. This make impossible to do continuous data recording and if so it's a bit a pity for so well equipped hardware.
Any hint about this?
By the way I'm implementing the support for the VDS1022 under Android. I'm wondering if any wish to do some test :bullshit:, I may provide some promo codes to the first who ask @ support[at]martinloren.com. It requires USB OTG and maybe some powered USB HUB if phone current from USB is not enough :D.
They obviously go into a different capture mode at slower than 50ms / division. Mine switches to continuous no-trigger roll mode.
It is common for digital scopes to capture a buffer, then stop and display it, and I guess they decided the delay between trigger and end of capture/display was too long at slower rates. My UT-81B does the same thing, at 100ms/div and below it no longer triggers, but captures continuously.
I don't know why they don't do it better, as losing triggering at slow rates is annoying.
I designed a little STM32 based scope, and while capturing, I just watch the DMA buffer pointer registers and display the data as it gets buffered. At high rates, the display lags the actual capture, but it's still just as fast (slightly faster) than waiting for the whole capture before dumping the buffer, and there's no issue with slow rates - the display gets updated as the samples come in....
I would be very interested in an Android port - I would love to be able to use this thing with a tablet. I have an OTG adapter which provides a USB host port, and can provide external power, I think it would probably work fine for interfacing to the scope.
Dave
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Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.
Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes... The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.
I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?
I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.
Thanks for the info. So far I've not noticed anything new past 1.0.23 either.
I have tried setting the timebase back to the original capture before proceeding, and it still hangs. Very odd - even 5k points is worth being able to zoom in (my TDS210 has only 2.5k and I zoom in with it all the time).
I'd be curious to know if you can reproduce the issue - just do a capture, stop the scope, adjust horizontal to "zoom in", then just start the scope again. For me it hangs very often. 1.0.23 recovers quite quickly, but you will still see a reconnecting message ... just would like to confirm it's not something "special" about my scope/setup.
Dave
Sorry for my lethargy last night, I'm fighting a bit of an infection.
Odd, I had installed 1.0.30 when I saw it, but hadn't got as far as plugging in the VDS. I just tried it (1kHz cal, Ch1) and came up with some strange results. It auto triggered ok, but when I hit stop and then clicked on the timebase it crashed immediately and repeatably. For some reason single trace was greyed out too.
I uninstalled 1.0.30 and installed 1.0.29, tried exactly the same and it worked perfectly. Manual or single trigger, whatever timebase I zoomed to after stopping and restarting. Never flinched.
Thinking it was another introduced 'breakage' I was set to confirming it by re-installing 1.0.30 (uninstalling 1.0.29 first). To my surprise if now finding that 1.0.30 works perfectly too. ??? I've tried it many times in succession with across a silly range of zooms / unzooms and it hasn't missed a beat.
The only differences I can think of are..
1. I did the first 1.0.30 installation 'cold', thinking I must get around to plugging in and checking that (in fact I had to use the install F/W option before it would see the VDS). I think it may actually have been a 'clean install' as I've only recently brought this laptop up. This time, I did all the uninstalls / reinstalls with the VDS still plugged in.
2. The VDS had a few minutes to warm up before I uninstalled 1.0.29
3. 1.0.29 might have left something in the registry that 1.0.30 needs?
This is all on Win7 SP1 64bit pro by the way.
You might want to check for USB supply voltage, but I'm pushing my luck with a 3m USB cable at the moment so that sounds unlikely. Maybe try a different port though.
Sorry I couldn't give you a definitive they broke it in Version xxxx.
P.S. Just to be clear, I haven't seen any reconnect message - I think you may indeed have a setup issue.
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Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.
Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes... The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.
I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?
I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.
Thanks for the info. So far I've not noticed anything new past 1.0.23 either.
I have tried setting the timebase back to the original capture before proceeding, and it still hangs. Very odd - even 5k points is worth being able to zoom in (my TDS210 has only 2.5k and I zoom in with it all the time).
I'd be curious to know if you can reproduce the issue - just do a capture, stop the scope, adjust horizontal to "zoom in", then just start the scope again. For me it hangs very often. 1.0.23 recovers quite quickly, but you will still see a reconnecting message ... just would like to confirm it's not something "special" about my scope/setup.
Dave
Sorry for my lethargy last night, I'm fighting a bit of an infection.
Odd, I had installed 1.0.30 when I saw it, but hadn't got as far as plugging in the VDS. I just tried it (1kHz cal, Ch1) and came up with some strange results. It auto triggered ok, but when I hit stop and then clicked on the timebase it crashed immediately and repeatably. For some reason single trace was greyed out too.
I uninstalled 1.0.30 and installed 1.0.29, tried exactly the same and it worked perfectly. Manual or single trigger, whatever timebase I zoomed to after stopping and restarting. Never flinched.
Thinking it was another introduced 'breakage' I was set to confirming it by re-installing 1.0.30 (uninstalling 1.0.29 first). To my surprise if now finding that 1.0.30 works perfectly too. ??? I've tried it many times in succession with across a silly range of zooms / unzooms and it hasn't missed a beat.
The only differences I can think of are..
1. I did the first 1.0.30 installation 'cold', thinking I must get around to plugging in and checking that (in fact I had to use the install F/W option before it would see the VDS). I think it may actually have been a 'clean install' as I've only recently brought this laptop up. This time, I did all the uninstalls / reinstalls with the VDS still plugged in.
2. The VDS had a few minutes to warm up before I uninstalled 1.0.29
3. 1.0.29 might have left something in the registry that 1.0.30 needs?
This is all on Win7 SP1 64bit pro by the way.
You might want to check for USB supply voltage, but I'm pushing my luck with a 3m USB cable at the moment so that sounds unlikely. Maybe try a different port though.
Sorry I couldn't give you a definitive they broke it in Version xxxx.
P.S. Just to be clear, I haven't seen any reconnect message - I think you may indeed have a setup issue.
Very strange... I've tried it on four different systems now with exactly the same results.
I too am using Win7-64 Pro (and on some of the systems Win7-64 home).
I've tried the cable that came with it, as well as other cables.
I measure about 0.36 amps, which is well within the 500ma spec. for a single USB port, let alone the dual port configuration of the supplied cable.
I've tried installing the driver that is included with the software, and the one(s) posted on the OWON web site.
I have determined that the two things I'm observing are unrelated.
Inability to zoom in/out is intermittent on later versions (sometimes works) but almost always works on 1.0.23.
The disconnect occurs when I stop the scope, and does not relate to zooming.
Once I press the RUN/STOP button (Upper right, turns from PAUSE to PLAY when scope stops), about 10 seconds later I get the "USB device has disconnected" sound from windows.
This ONLY occurs if I STOP the scope. If I set it to "normal" trigger and don't trigger it (so no capturing going on), the disconnect problem does NOT occur.
If I have device manager open when the disconnect occurs, it refreshes, but the scope stays visible (assuming it's a very brief disconnect).
When I press RUN/STOP again to start the scope, after a couple of seconds, I get a message window at the top "Write content err. and disconnect X" (this is the same message you get it you pull the USB cable while running, followed by one saying "Choose USB port ... (clears too quickly to read all of it)", followed by one saying "Initializing..." (same as when scope starts) and the scope starts running. This is with 10.0.23 - later versions usually hang at this point.
Before I install the drivers, it shows as "USB device" under "Other devices", NOT as "Oscilloscope" is described in the OWON driver installation document.
Once installed, the scope shows as "USB device" under "libusb-win32 devices" as described in the document.
I have not found an "Install F/W" option in the software ... I note that each software release has a directory called "$_OUTDIR/fpga/vds1022" which contains a large .bin file - I thought this was the firmware for the scope and is auto-loaded during "Initializing..." Is there some other option to install Firmware on the scope?
The "Install USB driver" option accessed via the state indicator in the upper left does not work, it runs a batch file which fails with access violations. I installed the driver by going to the scope device with device manager, and manually selecting the USB driver directory - this is the procedure documented in OWON's "USB_Driver_Install_Guide _V1.3".
It's funny ... perhaps I got a bad one, but in all other respects it seems to work fine.
Dave
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A bit more information:
There is a red LED at the top/back of the unit near the unused LAN cutout. This LED does not appear to be mentioned in the VDS_Series_User_Manual.
This LED comes on and flashes slowly when you first plug in the unit, then goes OFF and stays OFF when you launch the software and it finds/initializes it.
When I STOP the scope, 10 seconds later the "USB disconnect" sound plays, and the LED comes ON at exactly the same time, then resumes flashing slowly.
When I attempt to re-START the scope, it has to find/initialize it as described in my previous message, and the LED goes OFF, just as when first launching the software.
The same thing happens ("USB disconnect sound" and LED on) 10 seconds after I close the software with the scope running.
It almost seems to me that there is some sort of watchdog on communication and the scope is resetting or otherwise entering into some sort of fault/recovery state after 10 seconds of no communication.
As I would expect this to be a software thing, it should be happening on all VDS1022's, not just mine.
Could someone else with a VDS1022I try this and confirm that you DO or DO NOT get the LED coming back on after you STOP the scope (make sure the status in upper left changes to "STOP"). It happens for me after about 10 seconds.
I'm trying to determine if this one is defective or not.
Thanks,
Dave
PS: A couple other observations:
USBlogview does NOT show a disconnect and reconnect when the "USB disconnect" sound plays and the LED comes on. Device manager DOES refresh indicating that a device has changed status. I note that USBlogview has a short delay before it reports devices connecting and disconnecting, so it may be filtering what it determines to be a transient event.
As long as I don't STOP the scope, the problem does not occur.
If I use NORMAL trigger, and do not provide any trigger events after the initial capture, the scope remains connected even though it is not performing a capture (it must however be capturing in background as it would need to be recording pre-trigger events for the next capture). It this state, I can even ZOOM using the "AssistSet/Zoom" functions in the Horizontal menu, which:
- Proves that the software is capable of ZOOMing on the last captured waveform.
- Is much more easy/convenient that fooling with the timebase settings.
I have no idea why OWON blocks using ZOOM when you STOP the scope, as it is clearly possible in the software, and would be a very useful thing to have.
This (staying in normal trigger) is not a good workaround because:
- Can be hard to prevent additional triggers, which wipe out capture you are trying to examine.
- Single-shot capture automatically changes to STOP following trigger.
Minor bug discovered while investigating this:
With trigger set to AUTO (or a source which triggers applied) and scope STOPped, use status menu to disconnect and reconnect scope. Scope begins capturing, but Run/Stop button still shows START - you have to press it twice to stop scope.
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I guess you just need to know when to stop digging yourself in further!
When I first got the VDS1022I as with any other modern product, I ignored the DVD that came with it, and downloaded the latest version (1.0.30) and USB driver directly from OWON's site. I installed the USB driver, then the software, and it "mostly" worked. but I had the strange disconnect problem described in preceding posts.
Last evening, thinking it might be a conflict with one of several other USB based tools I have installed on my lab systems, I installed a fresh copy of windows on an old laptop, then not bothering to move over the downloaded installers, I stuffed in the DVD that came with the scope, and installed 1.0.29. Then I ran it, and tried "Install USB driver" which failed with "can't find REINSTALL.BAT", so I manually installed the driver that was included in the installed software (not the "new" one from OWONs site).
And... everything worked! I can zoom, and no 10-second disconnect!
So, I went to my working laptop (where I most want the scope to work), un-installed the driver, tracked down and removed all driver related files, uninstalled the software, tracked down and removed all program and appdata files and repeated the above.
And... everything works!
Did the same on my desktop. And... everything works!
I can only guess that the "new" driver from OWONs site installed some "nugget of goodness" which was interfering with things. I still get the disconnect sound and LED-ON 10 seconds after I close the VDS software (and I expect you will too), so I'm thinking that some "keep-alive" message while paused was not being transferred through the driver.
I also noted that the "fpga" directory and contained .bin files were NOT removed when I uninstalled the software. It may also be that a wrong or bad version of the firmware was being loaded.
Thanks for your help, and hopefully my experience may save someone else a bit of grief!
Dave
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Hey Dave,
I missed your previous couple of posts (rather pleased that I did now). Glad you got it sorted! I can't remember which was the earliest version that I installed when I changed laptops, but obviously early enough to circumvent the 'straight to 1.0.30' from the website.
Coincidentally I am just setting up an old IBM T42 with Win7 32 pro and an SSD to use as a small footprint lab bench PC, so your info is immediately helpful. Thanks.
Chris
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Now that I have this thing working properly, time for a better "review". I have to say that I quite like it.
It works! - I've tried a couple other low cost USB scopes and they were terrible, unreliable triggering, lost data in captures. Just not worth looking at. It seems OWON did something fiendishly clever that none of the other low-end USB scope makers have thought of ... they put an actual oscilloscope inside the box! not just an 8-bit micro trying desperately to shovel sample captures at a PC without losing "to much" of what you are interested in seeing.
It's cheap! - I got mine for about C$90 (~$70 US) - Not much more than the "sample and shovel" boxes.
It's small! About the size of a medium-small paperback book, easily fits in my (admittedly bigish) laptop bag. Rather than just toss it in with all the other detritus in the side pocket, I got a cheap 10" tablet case, which holds the scope and a couple of probes while maintaining thinness so it just slides in the pocket above the main compartment with the laptop.
Software seems decent. While I would prefer something cleaner than 100M+ of Java and .DLLs, it seems to keep to itself, and runs well. I tried installing it on an single-core Atom (N270) netbook running XP .. and it works fine! Another advantage to it doing scope-functions inside the box! It doesn't need much in the way of PC resources.
UI-wise the software is also quite good, I like that it doesn't make you turn "virtual knobs" but uses simple menus, and many functions can be done just by moving pointers with the mouse.
I don't really like their use of a USB-A connector which would normally require you to carry a separate cable. I've standardized on micro-USB cables for all the peripherals in my "portable lab", using adapters to other formats when needed, so I added a micro-USB to USB-A male adapter which works perfectly on the VDS1022I.
So far, it seems to be one of the best low-cost and small compromises I have found for a portable scope. I've got a couple of scopemeters, but they are too big for the laptop bag, and unless you spend big $$$ are considerably more limited than the VDS1022I.
It could also make a good cheap bench scope if you have a PC handy and don't need more capability. Sure, a 1054Z (or similar) is a lot more scope, but at 1/5 the price I can see places where the VDS1022 could make sense.
Dave
PS: The only thing I really don't like is the fact that at 100ms/div and slower it switches to roll mode with triggering disabled. I get that they think the delay between trigger/display would become too long, but they should have at least let us make that choice - there are sometimes cases where I want to wait for and capture a slow event.
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At the end of the day, if someone can afford $200-250 (because I suspect most that can afford $100-$150 can afford slightly higher), do you think this is worth it? I find the general concept of headless oscilloscopes very optiimal technologically since many people have a PC right in front of them at all times anyway, but I get the impression there is no much progress is that field yet, even with this model around (e.g. I noticed only the small model on this floating version can accept high voltage signals).
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Currently owon vds1022 got new competitor, "hantek 2c42" !!!
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I do not have a "hantek 2C42", but I was thinking about buying it.
After watching the videos I was discouraged, transferring to PC via USB "was very slow" :-\
I do not know Polish, but here's a video.
https://youtu.be/7pM64TIJSes?t=244 (https://youtu.be/7pM64TIJSes?t=244)
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...transferring to PC via USB "was very slow" :-\
What kind of processing would require you to transfer data to the PC? Do you think you would benefit of real-time samples transfer via wifi?
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It's triggering capabilities are distinctly limited compared to the Owon too. Not to mention very similar sample rate (drops to 125MHz for dual channel) and smaller (than the already small Owon) buffer - only 3k samples dual channel.
Yes it's handheld, but things like decent triggering matter.
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here is the detail review of hantek 2D42 oscilloscope, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWgslcNQLkw&t=901s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWgslcNQLkw&t=901s)
I agree with gyro this one is no way compare able with Owon vds series except being the handheld device. pc software also almost not useable compared to owon software. hantek 2D42 has single channel 125MS/s sampling and by time interleaving, hantek 2D42 able to manage 250MS/s. maybe same theory has applied on Owon VDS2052 ( 50 MHz 250MS/s) too, as Owon VDS1022 and VDS2052 has same origin and also has same software but different FPGA bitstream, maybe inserting some unpopulated component (reverse engineering required) & uploading the FPGA bitstream of Owon VDS2052 on the VDS1022 might convert Owon VDS1022 into VDS2052 ::) .On owon VDS software I have tried replacing VDS1022_FPGA_V3.5.bin file with vds2052_FPGA_v1.0.11.bin & after connecting my VDS1022, FPGA bitstream upload was successful on the VDS1022. At that time no input signal was given & my VDS1022 was plotting signal incorrectly. After disconnecting and reuploading original FPGA bitstream (VDS1022_FPGA_V3.5.bin) it was all right once again.
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I'm trying to figure out how the Hantek could ever be battery operated, as the manual leads with this sage advice: "Ground the product. This product is grounded through the grounding conductor of the power cord. To avoid electric shock, the grounding conductor must be connected to earth ground. Before making connections to the input or output terminals of the product, ensure that the product is properly grounded".
The USB charger in the video only has two prongs, so that won't be supplying the ground for the device, so the scope would only be grounded through a USB->Computer connection under normal circumstances. Weirdness?
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I suggest starting a new thread for the Hantek 2D42 - This stuff is really getting off topic with regard to the Owon VDS1022(I).
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I ordered the standard (non I) model and then I ordered a USB isolator for 9euros
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1500V-USB-to-USB-Isolator-Board-Protection-Isolation-ADUM4160-ADUM3160-Module-USB-2-0/32791327590.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.38252e0eQ5C8Xc (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1500V-USB-to-USB-Isolator-Board-Protection-Isolation-ADUM4160-ADUM3160-Module-USB-2-0/32791327590.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.38252e0eQ5C8Xc)
and a 2watt 5V dc-dc power supply for 3 euros to replace the 1watt that is installed
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-B0505S-2W-DIP-4-DC-DC-B0505S-2W-SIP-4-B0505S-2WR2/32903740245.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2cde4c4dPJNVOH (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-B0505S-2W-DIP-4-DC-DC-B0505S-2W-SIP-4-B0505S-2WR2/32903740245.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2cde4c4dPJNVOH)
This way I will have an isolator for more than one USB devices and the price difference was well worth the extra effort (60euros for the non isolated model and 90 for the isolated one).
thanks to everybody for the very informative comments
PS the laptop power supply I use doesn't have a ground cable, but better be safe than sorry. I always use a hands off approach when testing potentially dangerous Voltages, but I would like my osciloscope or my old laptop to also not die, hands off or not :)
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That was a good solution - saving some money in exchange for a little searching and rework effort. :-+
Having a laptop with a 2 pin mains adapter (no ground) actually makes your USB Isolator more useful, not less. It will block any 'Y-Cap leakage current' from your laptop adapter from reaching your (potentially sensitive) circuit under test.
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That was a good solution - saving some money in exchange for a little searching and rework effort. :-+
Having a laptop with a 2 pin mains adapter (no ground) actually makes your USB Isolator more useful, not less. It will block any 'Y-Cap leakage current' from your laptop adapter from reaching your (potentially sensitive) circuit under test.
thanks Gyro, I never thought the Y-Cap (little blue pill) leakage could have any effect, but when it comes to oscilloscopes I'm a total newbie, that's why I stick to these threads here.
I read your comments on readings taken from devices connected to mains, and I would like to ask/debate a few ideas (regarding transformerless drivers, isolator transformer etc), but I don't want to clutter the OWON thread with off topic stuff, so If I can pester you somewhere else I would be greatful.
As for the OWON, I just received today, Im still waiting for the 2w dc-dc converter to finish my isolated Osciloscope project
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There are quite a few threads on the benefits / shortcomings of Isolation Transformers and RCD/GFIs for shock protection in different situations. It's a bit of a contentions subject - safety is always an issue when trying to scope mains connected or high voltage circuits. A forum search will reveal many, but one I would recommend reading is https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rcd-or-isolation-transformer-what-is-best-to-use-for-safety/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rcd-or-isolation-transformer-what-is-best-to-use-for-safety/). It might be a thread worth reviving with any specific questions.
There's also Dave's video on how not to blow up your scope...
https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ (https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ)
Obviously you have an advantage with a USB isolated VDS1022. The key things to remember are that the ground clips of both channel probes are connected together, and they are also directly connected to the metal sleeve of the case. The other thing to remember is that regardless of any ground isolation, you always have the limit of the maximum voltage input and scope probe voltage ratings (relative to the ground clips) to beware of.
Hoping to hear that your USB Isolator mod works as expected. :)
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hehe thanks, I have seen this video like 3 times already to be extra sure I got all the tricks. Thanks also for the link about the debate on isolation transformers, I will also read it very carefully (I just made myself one from old transistors, but I m still somewhat shy to use it),
and I will post my results on the cheaply isolated Owon once I have everything put together (I still miss the 2w dc-dc).
PS gyro another thanks from me the thread you showed me is exactly what I wanted to read.
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I tested with my USB meter power needed to work my 1022I. It draw power from short part cable of Y cable found on the box. The value show on my meter is 640mA, so it best to use Y cable that came with 1022 and both ends inserted in sockets. It may not work properly with one usb. For those who want to mod 1022 to isolated version keep in mind the need of power requirement when other power IC is used.
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I tested with my USB meter power needed to work my 1022I. It draw power from short part cable of Y cable found on the box. The value show on my meter is 640mA, so it best to use Y cable that came with 1022 and both ends inserted in sockets. It may not work properly with one usb. For those who want to mod 1022 to isolated version keep in mind the need of power requirement when other power IC is used.
Thanks but 650mA is 3Watts, which contradicts what others have found inside the OWON 1022i ie a 2Watt Dc-Dc isolator. Im still waiting for the Dc-DC converter but I promise a full report when I get it :)
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I tested with my USB meter power needed to work my 1022I. It draw power from short part cable of Y cable found on the box. The value show on my meter is 640mA, so it best to use Y cable that came with 1022 and both ends inserted in sockets. It may not work properly with one usb. For those who want to mod 1022 to isolated version keep in mind the need of power requirement when other power IC is used.
Thanks but 650mA is 3Watts, which contradicts what others have found inside the OWON 1022i ie a 2Watt Dc-Dc isolator. Im still waiting for the Dc-DC converter but I promise a full report when I get it :)
My VDS1022I measures about 360ma when first connected (before software loads it), and about 420-430ma once the software loads it and it's up and running.
Draw doesn't change much between stopped and acquiring, or even when changing channel input level between settings where you can hear a relay click.
Not measured with a precision meter, just a cheap "USB Tester" which I have confirmed previously to be reasonably close. It only has a resolution to 0.01A.
I've not had problems running it from a single USB port, although I normally use a dual USB-A male to single USB-B Mini male with USB Mini-B female to USB-A male adapter to connect to the scope (standardized on USB Mini cables with adapters in my laptop bag).
Dave
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I managed to solder the 2Watt DC-DC on the usb isolator in the place of the 1watt but it still drops the voltage to 4V with 250mA so the scope doesn't turn on, even though the specs say it should provide stable 5V up until 400mA :)
I added two capacitors but still the same :)
Next step is putting 2x 2watt DC-DC in parallel. I know it's not recommended most of the times but I ordered a second one just in case and I have it around so why not try it :)
I ll keep you posted with new results :)
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The VDS1022I uses a TI DCP02 Isolated DC-DC. Maybe try one of those?
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dcp020505.pdf (http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dcp020505.pdf)
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Hello, after I read this thread, about a month ago I decided to purchase the non-isolated version. Couple of days ago the scope arrived and today I connected it, ran a calibration, connected and compensated the probes. Everything worked without a problem.
I also wanted to perform the tests on the first page of this thread to see how noisy my particular setup was. I do not have the BNC terminations so I left channel inputs open(no probes). One problem that I encountered though was that I could not access the lowest vertical sensitivity setting, namely 5mV/div, specified for both VDS1022/VDS1022(I), in software; the lowest I could go was 50mV/div as can be seen from the screenshot.
The rest of the settings(trigger, horizontal, display, etc.), they all seem to be OK.
Has anybody else with the non-isolated version of the scope encountered this problem?
Could it be a software problem? I mention that I have run S/W v1.0.30 from both the supplied CD and website with the same issue.
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Hi, Welcome to the forum. :)
Looking good. I think the reason you can't select the 5mV/div range is that the you still have the probe attenuation factor set to X10 (In the Channel menu, rather badly named as "Probe Rate").
You effectively already have it set to 5mV/div input sensitivity, the readout measurements are just 10 times too high.
P.S. Don't forget to set the attenuation factor back to X10 before using your X10 probes.
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Hi,
just like Waste and Florin235, I recently bought VDS1022 (non isolated) and DC-DC isolated USB converter (the same as Waste). The scope works very well, even with software running in virtual machine (host Linux OpenSuse and Windows10 in VirtualBox vm). But I had the same problem with USB converter as Waste. After a small investigation |O, I found the cause. This device is surprisingly well designed. It has 500mA resettable fuse on input side. It's too low for our scopes. Ideally it should be replaced with bigger one, for example 750mA. I did not have anything suitable at hand and eventually I bypassed the fuse. After that the scope started works through converter.
Tomek
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Thank you Gyro, that got everything back in order with my vertical scale :-+. I guess I just got carried away by some negative assumptions and simply forgot to change the amplification factor from x10 to x1.
I did the tests once more and they look the same as your tests on the first page; well more or less the same.
And no, I won't forget to put it back to x10 once I connect the 10x probes again ;D
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:-+ It looks pretty good for unterminated inputs.
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I've been playing around a bit more with the UI and thought it was probably time to update the shortcuts into a single list, including the ones documented in the help file. Most of the shortcuts below are still undocumented.
Screen Shortcuts:
The numbers tie up to the annotations on the Screenshot below (as before):
(1) Clicking on the small arrow directly brings up the measurement cursors menu for time and / or voltage.
(2) Clicking on the small '+' icon (only appears when the mouse pointer is in the measurements area) immediately brings up the measurements selection menu.
(3) Clicking on either of the channel numbers immediately brings up the channel settings menu (Double clicking anywhere on the box also brings up the channel setting menu).
(4) Volts/div selection, Clicking brings up a normal popup+slider However if you just hover the mouse over it instead you can use the scroll wheel to increment/decrement directly, much quicker.
(5) Clicking here toggles between DC / AC / GND for that channel.
Additional, hovering in either of the channel boxes also brings up a small 'x' icon to turn off the channel. Clicking in a greyed out channel box will turn it on again. (couldn't show this and (2) at the same time).
(6) Clicking in the 'T' box brings up a slider for trigger position. It's normally easier just to drag the red trigger position flag at the top of the screen, but the 'T' box click also brings up a useful 'Reset' button to restore to the middle.
(7) Time/div... Similar operation to the V/div. Clicking brings up the pop-up/slider but mouse-over and scroll wheel changes the value directly.
(8 ) Clicking toggles the trigger source between Chan1, Chan2 and Ext (trigger marker on right hand edge of screen changes color to match).
(9) Clicking toggles trigger polarity, works on edge, slope and pulse (icon changes to match trigger type). In Video trigger mode it toggles Odd, Even, Line etc.
(10) Click to alter trigger level - Actually it's far easier and more accurate to drag the trigger marker on the right hand side if the screen, but clicking here also brings up two useful buttons to 'Reset' the trigger level and 'Set to 50%'.
- Obviously clicking the Trigger button takes you straight to the Trigger menu.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/?action=dlattach;attach=188874;image)
Keyboard Shortcuts:
- <Space> brings up (or closes) the last menu selected - the same as clicking the Menu (Home) button. (Undocumented)
- When in numeric popups (V/div, T/div, number key will cycle through values for that number. eg. Pressing 2 will cycle 2us 20us, 200us, 2ms etc. (Undocumented)
- It will take the first letter of a menu item to select, eg. Trigger mode will take E, S, V, P etc. This seems to happen even after you've shifted focus. Shame it doesn't do the same thing for numerical inputs on the trigger holdoff. (Undocumented)
- Q Increase the Vertical sensitivity of Channel 1 (Documented).
- A Decrease the Vertical sensitivity of Channel 1 (Documented).
- W Increase the Vertical sensitivity of Channel 1 (Documented).
- S Decrease the Vertical sensitivity of Channel 1 (Documented).
- Left Arrow: Decrease the Timebase (Documented).
- Right Arrow: Increase the Timebase (Documented).
- F1 Help (Documented).
- F5 Run / Stop (Documented).
- <Ctrl> Enter: Autoset (Documented).
- <Ctrl> L (upper or lower case) Invokes "tune" mode. Apparently a diagnostic mode which displays, in the bottom left corner:' fps' (frames per second), 'cmd' (commands pending? always reads zero on mine), 'wfs' (waveforms per second?), and 'pts' (points?). The only way to exit this mode seems to be to exit and restart. (Undocumented, may be useful to someone).
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Hello.
I am going to buy a VDS1022i for measuring noise several USB Chargers(hobby).
I would like to receive your help and i have some questions.
1. What is the latest hardware version of the VDS1022i?
(Eg, Rev 1.5 or Rev 1.6 or Rev 1.7, ETc)
2. Which of the P2060 or P7060 probes are included in the VDS1022i?
(Some say P2060, others say P7060(with photo))
3. Which is the better probe?
(P2060 is up to 200 voltage at x1, P7060 is 300 up to voltage at x1. it seem that another spec are same.)
I would appreciate a reply. :)
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I bought a Siglent SDS-1104E oscilloscope. Subsequently the Owon was sold off. But the Siglent did not stay very long - the noise of the fan got to me and it was overkill for what I needed. Plus my health took a sharp down turn again which did not help. Recently I had the need for an oscilloscope and I bought the Picscope 2204A instead. The big advantage for me is that it does what I want and it has a build in AWG. Square wave is not perfect but still useable. I thought about an Owon again but I could never get it to work under Windows Server 2016 that I am running yet the Picoscope 2204A happily does (athough a year ago I was told it would not work under Windows server). For me the extra cost in respect to the Owon is well worth it.
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Hello.
I am going to buy a VDS1022i for measuring noise several USB Chargers(hobby).
I would like to receive your help and i have some questions.
1. What is the latest hardware version of the VDS1022i?
(Eg, Rev 1.5 or Rev 1.6 or Rev 1.7, ETc)
2. Which of the P2060 or P7060 probes are included in the VDS1022i?
(Some say P2060, others say P7060(with photo))
3. Which is the better probe?
(P2060 is up to 200 voltage at x1, P7060 is 300 up to voltage at x1. it seem that another spec are same.)
I would appreciate a reply. :)
Hi,
I don't know if there is a record of current H/W revision. Mine (that I did the original teardown on) was an early one, I've seen later ones with copper foil wrapped over the edge of the PCB between the upper and lower screening cans as a grounding contact for the case. The latest revision that I've seen (from the look of it) is shown in this recent video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di-UndlTnac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di-UndlTnac)
The only functional difference that I can see (apart from the bare tinned tracks down the edges for case grounding) is that the Video trigger chip doesn't appear to be fitted. I suspect that nobody is particularly interested in looking at analogue video in fine detail these days.
I don't know what PCB versions various ebay sellers stock these days, possibly random, but it doesn't make a functional difference anyway, they all work well.
With regard to scope probes, mine came with P2060 60MHz switchable x1/x10 probes, so does the one shown in the (recent) video.
I'm not sure where you have seen a P7060 photo and I don't know what the practical difference is - You NEVER use probes in the x1 position at those sort of voltages, that would be silly and dangerous for the scope, always use X10.
I note that you mentioned measuring noise of several USB chargers, I'm assuming (hoping) that you mean scoping the outputs. As has been covered many times before, this scope (and most others) isn't suitable for measuring mains. You would need to add a high voltage differential probe for that.
I hope this helps.
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Just for help community
Method for modify texts or messages in your favorit language in software VDS_C2 (or VDS_S2) for VDS series
On desk create a copy of com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar in \OWON\VDS_C2\plugins\
On desk create a folder named "translate"
For decompress :
With 7zip decompressed com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar in folder "translate"
with Notepad++ (or other) open MsgLib_en.properties.jar in Desk\translate\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\i18n\MsgLib_en.properties .
Modify text only after "=" and close file.
For compressed :
open 7zip and select the 3 files : com , META-INF , plugin.xml in folder "translate"
Click on "Add"
in "archive name" write "com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0"
in "archive format" change 7z by zip
Click "OK"
Open folder \Desk\translate\ and change suffix zip in jar in com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0
Click right and copy file com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar
For test :
Open folder \OWON\VDS_C2\plugins\
Change name of com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar in com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar.old (for protected original file).
Click right and paste file com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar
Change Menu/Utility/Language
For modify texts in tips :
Open \OWON\VDS_C2\docs\VDS_C2\en\image\
Protected original image *.png in *.png.old
Open your image *.png with Paint-net
Modify and save
Alain
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Welcome to the forum camomille, and thanks for the helpful information - I have been wondering how to modify things, this is a good start (I'm not a Java programmer).
Now if only you could find a way of making the 'Save' icon on the main screen (2nd to the left from the Home icon) bring up the save image box rather than save text one I'd be really happy! Having to go into the Utility menu to save an image has always been a pain.
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to Gyro, thank you for your welcome
I am not a Java programmer , the *.jar files can be decompressed and recompressed like Zip or Rar files with 7zip.
The button "Save the waveform" corresponds to command "Tooltip.Save" of the file "ButtonPane.class",
but *.class files must be decompiled recompiled and I do not know how to do it.
inconsolable
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Thanks, that gives me somewhere to focus on. I've never bothered contacting Owon about this one, though they've been sort of responsive at times in the past. They must have had some reason for making that a Text save button but it makes no sense to me.
Off to do some reading...
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For find text in folder containing jar files undecompressed :
https://sourceforge.net/projects/javinder/ (https://sourceforge.net/projects/javinder/)
https://amitstechblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/text-search-in-jar-files/ (https://amitstechblog.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/text-search-in-jar-files/)
For decompil / recompil class files :
http://dirty-joe.com/ (http://dirty-joe.com/)
good luck
Alain
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I m looking for a way to stream data from a OWON VDS1022I to a ftp server and from there to Matlab. Matlab has support for Oscilloscopes and has a great potential to plot, visualize and analyze data.
Is there a way to modifiy the code of the VDS1022I to stream data to an ftp server?
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It is probably not necessary to modifiy the code of the VDS1022I to stream data to an ftp server and from there to Matlab, since Owons own software has a integrated SCPI interface and Matlab supports SCPI commands:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-ag-1012-awg-matlab/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-ag-1012-awg-matlab/)
It would be nice to have Matlab support for the VDS1022I. Does someone know how to use the SCPI interface of Owons software to connect to other applications?
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Sorry, I've not used the SCPI interface on the VDS1022I S/W but here's the interface spec/protocol document in case you haven't already found it... http://files.owon.com.cn//software/Application/VDS_Series_SCPI_Protocol.zip (http://files.owon.com.cn//software/Application/VDS_Series_SCPI_Protocol.zip)
Some of the higher end VDSxxxx models have ethernet interfaces but are possibly outside the price range you're interested in.
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Yes, I found this documentation already. It's probably a step by step procedure to get Matlab support for the VDS1022I, when nobody did use it before. There are also expamples in the Matlab community for other oscilloscopes which could be modified for the VDS1022I. Matlab would be great for the VDS1022I, since Matlab is really wonderful for it's possibilities.
I'm looking for a solution for a respiratory sensor to connect to the VDS1022I, which is mobile. And the VDS1022I could be suitable for it. To avoid to carry around a laptop for the VDS1022I all the time, I thought about connecting the VDS1022I to a Rasperry Pi. Rasperry Pi has it's own Linux based OS. I saw here a Linux version of the Owon software in this blog. Do you think that this version could also work on a Rasperry Pi?
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I'm sure Matlab support will be a really welcomed feature if you can achieve it, but it does look as if you will be forging the path (unless you get lucky).
Yes there was quite an effort a while back in this thread about Linux support, I think various people got it working. I can't see a fundamental reason why it shouldn't work on a Pi [EDIT: would also be a really desirable capability] (ensuring sufficient USB supply current might possibly be one easy to solve issue). The VDS1022 device/FPGA image is easy to find in the s/w if you unzip it, as is the Java source.
Others will hopefully chip in with a more knowledgeably replies on the Linux stuff.
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Nice to read the view of an expert and to profit from his knowledge :).
Regarding power consumption: Do you have experience with the power draw of the VDS1022I? What battery capacity would be necessary for using for 24 hours, for a whole day?
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Haha, I wouldn't consider myself an expert in the field of Matlab, Linux or Rasperry Pi!
I haven't measured the power consumption of mine specifically, but earlier posts indicate that it is in the range of 300-400mA (the internal isolated DC-DC converter is a 2W one) - this may pose you a problem for long term battery operation.
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You say you are not an expert for Linux, Rasperry Pi and Matlab? But are you not the expert here in the forum for OWON VDS1022I? Thanks for the information about power consumption for the VDS1022I, very useful, VDS1022I expert!
I m one step further with the SCPI communication between VDS1022I and Matlab. I found an example in Matlab for the SCPI communication between a Rigol oscilloscope and Matlab, which could be modified for the VDS1022I and tested.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-ag-1012-awg-matlab/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-ag-1012-awg-matlab/)
And if it does not work, asking Owon s tech support for help could solve the problem.
SCPI seems not to be very often used, but looks not too complicated. I m convinced that this can be solved by everyone who want s it for the VDS1022I. And the solution might be not very difficult.
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You say you are not an expert for Linux, Rasperry Pi and Matlab? But are you not the expert here in the forum for OWON VDS1022I? Thanks for the information about power consumption for the VDS1022I, very useful, VDS1022I expert!]You say you are not an expert for Linux, Rasperry Pi and Matlab? But are you not the expert here in the forum for OWON VDS1022I? Thanks for the information about power consumption for the VDS1022I, very useful, VDS1022I expert!
Ha, well I suppose I do have that dubious honour - I guess somebody had to be the first to buy one 'sight unseen' and pull it to bits! There is the odd Youtube video now which is useful for seeing the UI but pretty much all searches still go either to sellers or end up here.
It sounds as if you're making good progress already on the SCPI. I must admit that I hadn't got much further than scanning the SCPI spec and thinking, hey that could be really useful. If you can integrate it with the AWG and maybe a PSU (there's a thread around here somewhere about someone doing an SCPI controlled PSU) then you've got a really useful setup, even if a bit frequency limited. You can always go up to one of the higher VDS models later with little if any effort - the SCPI spec seems to cover several models.
If you really get stuck, I think I've still got the email address of someone in Owon's technical department. I last used it a couple of years ago when I had an issue with one of their S/W releases so it may not work any more. PM me if you need it but I'd keep it as a last resort.
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Thanks!
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This is the progress of my research concerning the recording of the screen with the "Save the Waveform" button on the front panel.
I am not a Java specialist, but it serves me as an example to learn the language.
The change works (after a lot of testing), but I can run it with "org.eclipse.equinox.launcher_1.3.0.v20120522-1813.jar" not with "launcher.exe".
To continue, I will need sources and I want to ask Gyro to reactivate a download link for older versions of the software for track the sources.
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Hi camomille,
That looks very encouraging, I'm glad you are getting some benefit out of it as a learning experience.
Yes, of course I will re-upload, the only problem is that I am somewhere with ridiculously slow upload speed at the moment (as in <10kbps a lot of the time) and the connection keeps resetting. I will try again tomorrow.
In the meantime, if anyone else downloaded a copy of 'VDS1022 Previous Versions.zip' last time then maybe you can help...? :)
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The upload speed was a bit better this morning (only took 45 mins :D). Here's the download link:
https://ufile.io/4lllcvgx (https://ufile.io/4lllcvgx)
It might take a couple of attempts to download using the free option, I need to find a better upload site!
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Perfect first attempt 16 minutes.
Now a lot of work to analyze and compare.
Thank you for spending time.
Alain
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The sources are only in 1.0.23 (surely an oversight)
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The sources are only in 1.0.23 (surely an oversight)
Oh yes, almost certainly! Owon have been known to be a bit 'clumsy' about software releases.
As it happens, 1.0.23 was a particularly good vintage, with no bugs that I am aware of, so it's nice to have the sources for that one.
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it's possible (run with "org.eclipse.equinox.launcher_1.3.0.v20120522-1813.jar")
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That looks excellent, I assume that you still can't get it running from Launcher.exe.
I had a (well actually more than one!) rainy day on holiday last week. I couldn't even find which files to edit. Clearly your Java skills are evolving faster than mine.
In frustration, I did play with the button icons though, inspired by your reply #316 #312. It's little sad I know, but the cartoonish 3D effect Autoset, Run/Stop and Single trigger buttons on an otherwise professional looking UI have always bugged me. I have generated some which I think are better. These are in the 'com/owon/uppersoft/dso/image' folder of the unzipped com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar
The single trigger icon might not be the ideal but I couldn't think of anything better, it's hopefully more meaningful than a simple 'S' anyway, and certainly more so that the original 'lightning bolt'.
Here are the 'before and after screenshots, complete with the png files, under the correct names. No recompilation was needed.
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Hello,new advances (soft functional under Eclipse) with attached dialog usb (sniffer.txt) and report flashmemory
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Mission accomplished
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Hey that's excellent, care to share? :)
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@ Gyro
yes I want to share, but in what way do you want?
1) you want to build the file yourself with eclipse to understand more and modify yourself (I'll do a tutorial).
2) you just want to use the VDS_C2_23.jar file but I'm not sure how to upload a file online !!
Full folder zip : 121 Mb
minimum files zip: 44 Mb
VDS_C2_23.jar : 15 Mb
Alain
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Hi Alain,
Thanks very much. Can I be cheeky and ask for all of them please... The minimum files because I want something that works straight away (or is that the .jar), and the other two because I do want to play with it and see what else I can do! :)
The files are obviously too big to upload to the forum directly. I don't do things like Microsoft and google accounts so I just use https://uploadfiles.io/ (https://uploadfiles.io/) (the same as I used to send you the previous release versions). You just drag and drop the files (up to 5GB), it gives you a download link to copy and paste and it hosts them for 30 days. I'm sure there must be better ones out there but this one doesn't require any sort of registration.
Chris
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@ Gyro
decompressed and no install (dbl click on VDS_C2_23.exe (if no jre installed) or dbl click on VDS_C2_23.jar (if jre installed))
https://ufile.io/cupr1fdy
@ Ultrawipf
I do not speak Chinese but here is the translation
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Perfect Alain, thanks very much! :-+
A couple of observations:
- When I run the .exe file, everything works fine, apart from the 'Display' menu, which has a very long (indefinite?) delay in opening. Curiously, this was the bug that I reported to Owon on V1.0.8, which they fixed and released as V1.0.11. It may be that one of the included java sources with V1.0.23 has come from the earlier version and become embedded in your .exe .
- I seem to have lost my file association for .jar files. if I point it to java.exe in the /jre/bin of the standard installed VDS folder structure and double click on the VDS_C2_23.jar, it briefly flashes up a black window. I get the same behaviour if I double click any other jar file too. Note that I only have the JRE that comes with the Owon install, so this is probably just my ignorance of Java.
- I have managed to get your VDS_C2_23.jar working by renaming it to com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar and replacing the one in the /plugins folder of an existing V1.0.23 installation. It works perfectly (including normal opening time for the display menu), so I am very happy with that! :)
As for changes that I would like to try:
- While experimenting with different versions the other day I discovered the one bug in what I previously thought was the flawless V1.0.23. If you turn on 'Math' mode in the Math menu, the math (green) trace defaults to CH1+Ch2 at 5V/div. If you attempt to change the scale factor to any other V/div, the green trace goes to a flat line. This can't be altered until you turn un-tick 'Math' and enable it again, when it defaults back to 5V/div! This is fixed in the later versions. The math function isn't actually that useful as the resulting trace is noisy on the later versions if you try to do a differential( CH1 - CH2) measurement. Irritating though. [EDIT: This bug actually occurs as soon as the function is set to CH1 - CH2].
- I'd like to try changing the 'Save Image' button in the Utility Menu into a 'Save Data' button, to replace the .txt/.csv/.xls save functionality that was originally on the main screen save button.
Just for reference, I have been compiling a S/W version differences log. This is probably still incomplete, but here is what I have so far...
V1.0.11
- Fixed delay in bringing up 'Display' menu (introduced in V1.0.8 )
- Skins working (Black / Blue).
- Math function works Ch1 - Ch2
- FPGA Image V3.5
V1.0.23
- Java Sources included in distribution (oops!).
- Skins working
- Math function broken Ch1 - Ch2 defaults to 5V range, changing it results in flat-line.
- FPGA Image V3.5
V1.0.27
- Math function works
- Skins work
- FPGA Image V3.5
V1.0.28
- FPGA Image V3.7 introduced
- Skins broken
V1.0.29
- FPGA Image V3.7
- com.google.gson_2.1.0.v201203072145.jar added to plugins folder (?)
- Skins broken
V1.0.30
- FPGA Image V3.7
- com.google.gson_2.1.0.v201203072145.jar in plugins folder.
- Doesn't remember timebase settings across program close.
- Crash when zooming horizontal when in stopped mode.
- Skins broken
(By skins broken, I mean that it is not possible to change from the default black theme to the blue theme)
Thank you again for your considerable efforts to get the save button to work as I asked!
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The Owon software does not install a jre, so it provides a jre in its folder and the launcher uses it.
I tested on W10_64 with soft Owon installed and
on W7_64 freshly installed and without soft Owon installed, folder on the desktop I met no bug !!
do you want me to try to compile version 1.0.27 which is better ?
Alain
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Thanks for the clarification.
I'm running W7_64. I remember Owon had some difficulty reproducing the Display menu delay problem (although I was probably still running XP at the time).
V1.0.27 might be a good target if you don't mind - either that or V1.0.28. The skin selection isn't a big deal (the blue skin is pretty horrible anyway) and V1.0.28 benefits from the later FPGA version (whatever difference that makes, but I guess they must have changed something).
One correction, I'm not running your (renamed) .jar file on an installed version, but instead, on an unpacked version from the setup file. At this point, I'm running with no installed version, I uninstalled it - just the unpacked folder. In addition to renaming, I also edited your .jar to include my button images for Autoset, run, stop and single trace, as I showed in reply #334.
Thank you,
Chris
P.S. Do you think the change of the Utility menu button from 'Save Image' to 'Save Data' would be difficult? Presumably it's just a matter of changing the button image and using the whatever that the on-screen save button originally pointed to.
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After decompiling 1.0.27 with luyten and transfer to eclipse, the correction is possible, but represents a huge uninteresting work.
I prefer to understand the "Math" bug in 1.0.23 and compare with version 1.0.27 to fix it.
about your request for P.S. ,it's not clear to me :
Original save functions :
Button 1 = ALL FILES / TXT (selected after click)
Button 2 = ALL FILES / PNG / BMP / GIF (selected after click)
Button 3 = ALL FILES / TXT / CSV / XLS / BIN (selected before click)
Modification made :
Button 1 = ALL FILES / PNG / BMP / GIF (selected after click)
Button 2 = ALL FILES / PNG / BMP / GIF (selected after click)
Button 3 = ALL FILES / TXT / CSV / XLS / BIN (selected before click)
what I understand what you want is that the button 2 takes the old function of the button 1, save in text format ?
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Ha, I'd never even noticed of the 'Pause and Export' button (3) - I think I always assumed it was a trace save button or something. It does indeed duplicate the original function of the screen 'save' button (1). Note that the drop-down menu to the left of button 3 set the default file format for both buttons 3 and the original button 1 (ie. the original button 1 was originally capable of .txt, .csv etc. depending on the utility menu drop-down)
In that case, there is absolutely no need to waste your time with uninteresting changes around with the 'Save Image' button (2), it can just serve as a duplicate for the new button 1 functionality.
I admire your interest in delving into the math function on 1.0.23 - you clearly are interested in learning! The issues seem to be triggered, either by setting the function to Ch1 - Ch2 or by changing the V/div (the original default is Ch1 + Ch2 at 5V/div), hopefully you can reproduce this. Good luck with that one. :) [Edit: I just double checked that the math function does work correctly on V1.0.27]
I think you are right to concentrate on V1.0.23 as that is the one for which original sources are available. From your earlier posts, you seemed to get some differences when you had to decompile files on other versions. I really don't know what they added with the later versions, they fixed the math but broke other things!
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These are the wrongdoers !!
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Wow, that was quick!
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just eliminated the + 24
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replace VDS_C2_23.jar with this one for math function correct.
https://ufile.io/je9gz8k8
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Congratulations @camomille, you fixed what I thought was going to be a tricky issue. I can confirm that the math function now works fine, just like the other versions. I'm curious to know how many files you have had to modify to implement all the changes (save button and math)?
Interestingly (although to be expected as you didn't touch that area) I still see the delay when trying to open the 'Display' menu entry (the one above Math) this is somewhere between several minutes and indefinitely :D. I suspect it is a latent bug left over from V1.0.8 which Owon worked around, rather than fixed - they sent me several attempts to try before finding one that worked. Even now, I see a slightly longer delay in opening Display menu on all post-V1.0.8 versions than any of the other menu items. It is clearly very specific as you can't see it and neither could Owon.
The above is not worth taking up any more of your time as, if I rename your .jar to com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar, place it in the Plugins folder and use launcher.exe, it works normally for me. I am perfectly satisfied with this solution.
One final question though. What sets up the taskbar icon for the program? Is it the .exe or the Javascript? Owon have always left the text blank (just showing the small blue 'PC' icon).
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I think it's the icon named launcher.png in folder "plugins/com/owon/uppersoft/dso/image"
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Yes, I found that too, I was wondering about how to put some text in the taskbar Icon though. eg. "OWON" or "VDS1022". It is blank at the moment. I was hoping that there was a string definition somewhere that I could simply edit.
It's no big deal though.
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try to enlarge and replace image and write your text with paint.net as attachment
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decompilation version 1.0.28 with luyten and after a long debug , launch under eclipse with jre 1.8.0_111 unlike 1.0.23 which uses jre 1.6.0_45.
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try to enlarge and replace image and write your text with paint.net as attachment
Sadly not, [EDIT: it Windows] scales the whole thing down until it fits within a square form factor. I tried the same thing just using logo.png (rectangular), with the same result.
Not to worry, it's a trivial thing.
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this is where it is defined :
surely behind the annotation // prevents the display
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They do seem to like commenting out their own code! :)
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like that ?
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Maybe - it depends whether the same text appears on the taskbar tab (eg. when minimised).
P.S. I feel guilty about you doing this stuff - I hope you're still finding it helpful / enjoyable (you do seem to be :)).
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MINI /MAXI
it amuses me, give your text I will make a custom jar
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That's good :).
I suggest "VDS1022" in that case. This particular software only supports this model (whether isolated and non-isolated versions are irrelevant). The FPGA folder also has the 1052 but I've never seen one of those for sale.
Thanks,
Chris
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like that
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Perfect.
I just want to double check - It does appear on the task-bar icon at the bottom of the screen too?
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I can not see it I am in emulation under eclipse, the jar is not compile, I will test tomorrow.
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no, just the icon.
attached the corresponding jar
https://ufile.io/qx0u5h5x
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I looked at the problem "Display" and I found why this slow, it lacks rxtxSerial.dll that you find in folder plugins / RXTXcomm 2.1.7,
place a copy next to VDS_C2_23.jar and enjoy.
https://ufile.io/o64cfpvd
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Full final version : decompress on the desk ,dbl click on VDS_C2_23.exe
https://ufile.io/1kd4j2te
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Perfect in all respects :-+
- Math working as expected
- PNG save from main window
- Display menu opening properly
- VDS1022I text on window AND also appears in the Win7 Taskbar Icon (Win10 must show icons differently)
Many thanks @camomille!
I don't know if it's of any interest, but I have uploaded a modified version of your final VDS_C2_23.jar, with my revised Button images for Autoset, Run/Stop and Single trigger...
https://ufile.io/qrffalpn (https://ufile.io/qrffalpn)
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conclusion:
thank you for allowing me to practice to understand Java and especially the IDE of Eclipse.
Java will never be my favorite language because it is too constraining,
it is made for teamwork and multiplateform, for a developer alone, it's a hassle!
If someone wants to do the same experiment,
I will gladly do a tutorial, provide my source folder and help install everything.
Alain
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the calibration function is now in English by Ctrl L
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Interesting camomille, I hadn't realised there was so much adjustability available. Is there a file associated with the English version or is it just a visible translation to use with the existing Chinese text in the pop-up? (That's just fine by the way).
I've come up with a new icon and launcher.png file. It probably infringes Owon's trademark, but it does make the program it much easier to recognise, both on the desktop shortcut and on the taskbar. A minor offering compared to your mods I'm afraid, but attached just in case anyone wants them.
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Hello,
I) concerning the calibration function in English:
1) For the buttons, it is necessary to modify the file "MsgLib_en.properties" (that of your language).
The Chinese characters are not visible in sinograms, they are coded in Unicode.
To convert unicode to Chinese sinograms open the file with Notepad ++ and search for strings starting with "\u"
Example line 122: \u901a\u9053\u540d
Convert Unicode to Chinese sinograms with this tool:
https://www.chineseconverter.com/en/convert/unicode (https://www.chineseconverter.com/en/convert/unicode)
result: "通道 名"
Translate Chinese To English:
https://translate.google.fr/?hl=fr (https://translate.google.fr/?hl=fr)
result: "Channel name"
In your MsgLib_ file replace "\u901a\u9053\u540d" by "Channel name"
2) Some keys are not wide enough to contain the text, you have to widen the 2 keys on the right.
In\Com\Owon\vds\tiny\ui\tune\TinyTuneDialog.java
line 232 100 to 170
line 240 180 to 280
3) Tab titles and country names are influenced by the "Local" function
For tabs:
com.owon.vds.tiny.tune.TinyTuneFunction
line 154 replace "SIMPLIFIED_CHINESE" with "ENGLISH"
For country names:
com.owon.uppersoft.vds.data.LocaleObject
line 33 replace "CHINESE" with "ENGLISH"
II) There is an option in "Launch4j" to add an image at VDS_C2_23.exe
III) I found how to add a language in the menu.
Example for French:
1) in com.owon.uppersoft.dso.i18n
Create a copy of the MsgLib_en.properties file and rename it to MsgLib_fr.properties
2) in com.owon.uppersoft.dso.pref.default.ini
Modify "availableLocales = zh_CN;en;ru;de;pt_BR;" in "availableLocales = zh_CN; en;fr;ru;de;pt_BR;"
3) Make the necessary translations in the MsgLib_fr.properties file.
[attach=1]
III) I have a new project, it is to add 2 cursors to the right of the cursor "Trigger" (red),
to visualize Trigger by "Pulse Width" and Trigger by "Hold Off", I am creating a form of wave in FY3224s to test these functions.
[attach=2]
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Thanks very much for the very detailed write-up.
It's good to see that you're still having fun! :)
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Hi, Gyro! Thanks for this topic about OWON! :)
I ordered VDS1022 model without isoliator.
I have a request - you could share the version of software
1.0.23 and final VDS_C2_23.jar? According to the link which you published earlier free downloading is not available.
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Hi indman, :)
Sure, no problem. I've uploaded the Final VDS1.0.23 (the one with modifications by camomille) here: https://ufile.io/xn569hrp (https://ufile.io/xn569hrp)
The final VDS_C2_23.jar is included in the zip. You don't actually need to install the s/w, just unzip it to a folder and run the .exe - although you may need to point to the USBDRV drivers folder when first connecting the VDS1022, if you haven't already installed the it using the supplied s/w.
Note also that I have also improved some of the menu icons to make them more understandable versus the original ones. If you want to make a desktop shortcut with OW icon, change its icon setting to point at launcher.ico.
P.S. If you want all of the previous original Owon VDS1022 installation versions, they are here: https://ufile.io/6a881kh7 (https://ufile.io/6a881kh7)
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I'm not sure if this is an indication of boredom or just very sad...
As mentioned in my last post with the download link for indman, I have been playing around with the menu and control button icons to make them a bit more comprehensible. Some were ok, but others just made no sense to me. It obviously doesn't make any difference at the top level menu (as screenshots) because each sub-menu is named, but when you're one level down, it makes it easier (for me at least) to quickly jump between them.
If you are sad enough to want to modify them further then note that they are transparent .PNGs so you need to use something like Gimp that can preserve transparency.
To get at the icon images you need to unzip the VDS_C2_23.jar to an empty folder. The images can then be found in /com/owon/uppersoft/dso/image. Replace or edit the ones you want and then, using 7zip (but selecting zip format), re-archive the top level folder contents (ie. the folder tree), with the file extension changed to .jar This works with the original owon .jar file or the one modified by camomille.
The images in the attached zip file have filenames that match the relevant existing ones, so will overwrite them. You might want to stick an OLD_ on the front of the existing image names if you want to be able to revert to them.
The only other file in the .zip is launcher.ico, this can be used as an alternative icon for a desktop shortcut.
Below are the 'before' and 'after' screenshots, together with the zip of the image files.
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Gyro, I like the icons changed by you - they in more detail and visually display the maintenance of each menu item.
I was interested in version 1.0.23 as the stablest and working in every sense. On its basis I want to edit translation(thanks camomille) of a cover into Russian language for myself. Probably the person who not absolutely well owns it was engaged in translation into Russian.
Thanks for your work and archive with files! :D
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Hello,
2) Some keys are not wide enough to contain the text, you have to widen the 2 keys on the right.
In\Com\Owon\vds\tiny\ui\ta\TinyTuneDialog.java
line 232 100 to 170
line 240 180 to 280
3) Tab titles and country names are influenced by the "Local" function
For tabs:
com.owon.vds.tiny.tune.TinyTuneFunction
line 154 replace "SIMPLIFIED_CHINESE" with "ENGLISH"
For country names:
com.owon.uppersoft.vds.data.LocaleObject
line 33 replace "CHINESE" with "ENGLISH"
Hi!
I can 't find these files in the VDS_C2_23.jar archive?
I only found them in the folder plugins/com.owon.vds.tiny.source_1.0.7.jar
How do I edit the calibration menu then? :)
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Hi,
@ indman
Error file is in :
\com\owon\vds\tiny\ui\tune\TinyTuneDialog.class
Regards
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Hi camomille,TinyTuneDialog.class - binary file, how to edit it?
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I answered a little fast, because in my post 33 I describe what I did with the keys,
but you do not have to do it (it's already done).
You just have to do your translation in Russian.
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Hi,camomille!
Thanks for the answer, but I don 't want to install eclipse. You could provide me with a modified file TinyTuneDialog.class ? :)
Some keys are not wide enough to contain text.
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Hi,
Give me the widths that suit you
Calibrator key width my version VDS_C2_23:
<< Reset tx parameters = 170
Calibration = 100
Save the pameters to txt = 180
Parameter wrong device and factory setting = 280
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Reset txt parameters = 180
Calibration = 100
Save the parameters to txt = 260
Parameter writing device and factory setting = 280
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Very complicated because interaction of the positions of the keys.
For aesthetic reasons, I set "<< Reset txt parameters" to 200
and "Save the parameters to txt" to 280.
That's what happens.
I will compile tomorrow.
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Hi,
VDS_C2_23 Russian special compiled version (extended calibrator keys).
https://ufile.io/jr26sfbl
I hope you can write us a tutorial "How to calibrate a VDS1022"
good luck
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Hi guys!
I got my long expected OWON VDS1022 without the letter "I"!
I also got a set of extra parts ADUM3160 and
DCP0205, which was ordered by Aliexpress. After removing 8 SMD short jumpers, i soldered these chips in place and got a working model VDS1022I :D
A photo of the board before the upgrade i attach to my message.
Next i installed the software version 1.0.23, which with the kind help of respected Gyro and camomille i supplemented with Russian language, beautiful icons and which i very much like! :-+
Sorry about my English, i 'm using a translator! :palm:
Next, i decided to test the actual bandwidth of the oscilloscope input path. For this purpose I used a professional Russian high-frequency generator Г4-148 (100MHz) and a load of 50 ohms.
Just to follow up, I ran a frequency scan today as I indicated. I used an Adret 730A synthesized sig gen with 50 ohm through-terminator directly at the scope input. At 1Vrms signal level. Averaging was turned on:
Channel 1 was -3dB at 34.7MHz
Channel 2 was -3dB at 31.2MHz
My oscilloscope has about the same bandwidth of up to 32 MHz in both channels. This can be seen in my screenshots.
Next, I wanted to check how accurately the instrument measures AC and DC voltage, how accurate the calibration is, and can you trust the readings of this item?
I gave the instrument 30 minutes to warm up and stabilize the temperature and then did the calibration procedure via the Utilities menu.
To begin with, I connected the inputs of the CH1 and CH2 test probes to the output of the calibrator 5V 1kHz. Also to monitor the voltage level at this output, i connected my Brymen867. As you can see in the photo, the oscilloscope measured Vrms and Vpp quite accurately. The divider on the probes was in position x10. Next, i switched the divider to position x1 and connected my sample DC voltage source, which is assembled on the available chip AD584, to the test probes.
First I measured the 2.499V voltage at the 1V/del limit. The default calibration is pretty well tuned, I didn 't adjust anything extra. Vtop=2.480V for both channels.
Then I measured the same voltage at 500mV/del. Vtop=2.360V for CH1 and Vtop=2.340V for CH2, CorseGain=0.962(1) and CorseGain=0.965(2)
I changed the values CorseGain=0 .973 (1) and CorseGain=0 .976 (2). I then saved the calibration values with the SaveCalibration button and the measured voltage became Vtop = 2.480V for both channels. Next I measured the voltage 5.00V,7.50V and 10.00V and got quite convincing results. This is not bad for this class of USB oscilloscope!
Now I have a few questions about the design of the program interface. By what principle do you select the red beam color for the first channel and the yellow beam color for the second channel? Is it possible to change this palette to another palette? I would prefer to have a green beam on the first channel, as on an analog instrument.
In this shell, the green color has an FFT operation.
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Hi indman,
I'm glad that you got your scope and managed to carry out the 'I' modification successfully. That's a pretty impressive montage of trace pictures - you've been having fun! :-+
I haven't played with the coarse gain adjustments yet. I'm surprised that you managed to get such close DC measurement results with the 8 bit ADCs - you must have achieved almost exact 1 mV per bit matching with the ADC and internal reference.
With regard to the trace colours. I haven't tried modifying them myself. the only factor really tying them with the colour stripes of the probes. I'm not sure if you've found it yet, but green is already used by the maths/FFT display, so that would need to be changed too.
I'm am sure it must be possible to change the trace colours. Looking through the preference files, e.g. /configuration/com.owon.uppersoft.dso/pref.properties I can see RGB colours (for up to four traces (different models) in plain text format. I think I maybe saw it in other pref files in the folder tree too, such as inside the VDS_C2_23.jar file (eg. /com.owon.uppersoft.dso/pref/scopeInfo.ini and maybe others) which you would need to unzip, modify and re-zipped as for other mods.
As I said, I haven't played with these settings, but I wonder if they affect just the trace colours, or the channel settings boxes (bottom left) too. As long as you keep backups, I don't see how you could cause any trouble by experimenting.
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Gyro thanks for the answer! I myself was pleasantly surprised that the entry-level oscilloscope was accurate enough for radio-loving tasks to take DC and AC measurements.
Yes, I already wrote in my previous message that FFT operations have a green display color. It 's much easier for me to deal with the impressive montage of trace pictures than it is to deal with the software compilation. :) If anyone is able to change the color palette, I would be grateful. And I think I 'm not the only one.
I have another question about how the program works. If I freeze the picture on the display with the Pause button and then press it again in 1-2 minutes, the program makes a reconnection. Do you have such a problem?
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Hi,
I tried to change the color of channel 1 to green, but without success.
I do not confess defeated, but it's not easy, I'll try again at my lost moments.
It seems even more difficult to change the color of the FFT curve.
What is certain is that only 3 colors are known for the afterglow for the 2-channel model.
red (FF0000)
yellow (FFFF00)
green (00FF00)
I'll let you know if I'm getting results
regards
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Yes, I suspected that it might not be so easy because the two channel settings boxes (bottom left) have gradient fill, not solid colour.
This was actually a question that I remember asking Owon support a few years ago, because I thought the Red would be awkward to read. They said that they couldn't do it (which didn't mean much, as they wouldn't want to spend much time on anything that wasn't a bug fix anyway), but in practice I get on with it just fine.
That was in the days before camomille's magic fingers though! :)
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Hello Gyro,
I found several locations in the program with "color.red" or "RGB (" FF0000 ") that seemed to me to match, I tried to change with" color.green "or" RGB ("00FF00"),
but no change, always the red channel 1.
I have to put my finger on the right place, but you have to be a magician or have a lot of luck.
I search by period because it takes my head.
Alain
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Hello,
it's moving slowly but surely
Here are the changes to have channel 1 in green and math in red,
For trace and label channel 1 Green Just 1 line to modified
in com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0/com/owon/uppersoft/dso/wf/ChannelInfo
line 120 replace "FF0000" by "00FF00"
For trace and label Math Red Just 1 line to modified
in com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0/com/owon/uppersoft/dso/function/perspective/CompositeWaveForm
line 74 replace Color.green by Color.red
for FFT red Just 2 lines to modified
in com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\function\FFTView
for label red
line 405 replace Color.GREEN by Color.RED
for trace red
line 486 replace Color.green by Color.red
[attach=1]
[attach=4]
we must now change the 2 png for channel 1 (bottom left) select / unselect from red to green,
but to do it takes time (and courage),difficult because of the color gradient
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camomille, You 're a wizard, I admire your work every time! :-+
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@Gyro and indman
Thank you for your compliments, but it is only time and gray matter and a little intuition.
I do not use the VDS1022 enough and I count on you to see if all the colors match your expectations.
if you do not want to modify your versions, recover the 3 CLASS files in the JAR.
Link for JAR file :
https://ufile.io/frjbv6yk
Regards
Alain
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Excellent intuition Alain,
Sadly, though my intuition isn't bad, my grey matter is distinctly leaky!
Anyway, to do the easy bit... I have attached updated images, relevant to the CH1 green change, to the ball1 icon, and the Menu Channel settings and Math settings icons. I think they are the only ones affected. [Edit: The last two ONLY if you are using my revised menu icons, otherwise, just ball1.png]
As usual, these overwrite the image files in the com/owon/uppersoft/dso/image folder within the JAR file. I have included backups of the original files with an 'OLD' 'PREV'prefix.
Regards,
Chris
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Guys, big thanks this color update works fine and I like it! :-+
I don 't have very good vision, so green is important to me, just like the benefits of a large display window. I also replaced the rings of red with green at one of the probes.
In addition, now even my USB Tester by color corresponds to the color palette Owon ;D In the photo, I showed the amount of current my oscillograph consumes after the upgrade.
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To replace uns1.png and sel1.png
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Ah, I never noticed those in the skins folders! Thanks Alain. :-+
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I can do something in a photoshop, too :)
For black and blue themes
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It's a lot better than me, you got them incorporated or do you want me to redo a new compilation?
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Version indman (photoshop)
sel1 / uns1 Black and Blue skin
https://ufile.io/p599w6ot
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It's a lot better than me, you got them incorporated or do you want me to redo a new compilation?
camomille, thanks, I learned how to replace files with new ones in the JAR archive :)
Now everything looks and works perfectly! Respect!
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I changed my last link because there were some warnings at the compilation.
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Hi camomille!
Don 't think I 'm too brazen and a lot of things I want :palm:
I have one question about translating the interface into Russian language.
Is it possible to change messages in this window to Cyrillic?
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For indman
For your reboot problem after a break, I do not know this problem because I do not use the VDS1022
but I think the track to follow would be rather the USB bus controllers with the power option try unchecked.
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it does not bother me, I will look for the OFFLINE
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Yesterday I used a promotion on Aliexpress and pulled the trigger on a VDS1022I not in small part due to the developments done on this thread. It is pretty cool to see the work done by the community to make such neat unit be even more usable. Thank you!
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Hello,
Welcome rsjsouza, when you have your device, do not hesitate to ask for advice for the installation of the software.
For indman,
I have located the place where I stored the strings to display in the "TriggerStatus" window, but for now it returns an error message if I modify the text.
I hope to understand :box:
Regards
Alain
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@camomille:
Alain, you also need a green ball1.png for the Channel 1 trigger source... attached.
I've also attached the entire image folder for the JAR which includes all of the icons, including the above and your skin files, together with my revised Menu icons (Reply #376) modified for Green channel 1.
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Yesterday I used a promotion on Aliexpress and pulled the trigger on a VDS1022I not in small part due to the developments done on this thread. It is pretty cool to see the work done by the community to make such neat unit be even more usable. Thank you!
The more, the merrier.
There's excellent work going on in the Hantek thread too but it's always going to be limited by its less advanced hardware than the Owon, particularly triggering.
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Yes, the Hantek hardware is a crap shoot when compared to the Owon. Several reviews (including mikeselectricstuff) point to the honesty of Owon's hardware design and build.
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Hello,
@Gyro
Thank you for the complete file "images" that allowed me to update my emulator because as you have noticed I am more technical than aesthetic and in addition you are much more talented than me.
@indman
I think I found how the program accesses the list of words "TriggerStatus", but it is necessary that eclipse accepts the Cyrillic in its instructions, it is necessary to modify 5 lines in Cyrillic from "Offline" to "Невсети"
confirm eng / russ conversion of "Offline"
Alain
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Hi camomille!
Are you implying that I will have to install and study eclipse? :)
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@Gyro
Sorry but after exchanging image files, impossible to compile, error messages.
I reinstall my old version, it will be like before changing your personal pictures. |O
Alain
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@indman
no you do not have to install eclipse, it's me who must have incorporated the Cyrillic, I'm just asking you to confirm the text I wrote in Cyrillic. (post 413)
Only disadvantage (for me), your JAR version will be specific.
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@indman
Is good ?
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@Gyro
Sorry but after exchanging image files, impossible to compile, error messages.
I reinstall my old version, it will be like before changing your personal pictures. |O
Alain
Ha, that's the first time anyone has called me aesthetically talented! :D
I'm sorry that the image folder caused you compilation errors. It works fine for me, but of course I am simply inserting it into the completed JAR file, so the compiler never sees it. I suppose it's possible that there is an image size error somewhere. I'm not sure if you could stomach such an ad-hoc method (adding after compilation) without sufficient explanation of the errors!
The ball1.png should at least cause you no compilation errors.
I hoped the complete image folder might save you some time. I have attached just the files related to my revised look (edited for green) individually, in case that helps.
If all else fails, indman knows how to substitute image files in the JAR now so he can do it at his leisure while you're looking at the 'Offline' status.
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@indman
Is good ?
Can you show me the entire message list in this trigger window? Do I understand correctly that the maximum length of a word in this window can be 7 characters?
I would translate "Offline" as "Нет сети" and "Auto" as "Авто" :)
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@Gyro
This is not too serious, because I had to reserve a precedent "workspace" complete.
I reinstated 2 "workspace" (ENG / RUSS) by inspiring me from my posts which serve me memory (that's why I always describe my modifications).
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Here is the list of texts displayed in the window "Status"
Auto,Ready,Trg_d,Scan,Stop,Error,ReCfg,AutoSetting,Offline,USBFound,USBDrvErr,MachineNotSupport,Linking,Connect,Detect,Initialize
the program modify these texts :
"Trg_d" is convert in "Trig'd"
"Detect" is convert in "Match"
"Initialize" is convert in "Syncing"
"ReCfg" is convert in "ReSyncing"
"Autosetting" is convert in Autoset..."
It seems that the text modify width of the window (max 10 char !)
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Oh my god, I didn 't think there would be that many messages! :palm:
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there are surely some who are fugitive
Choose priorities because it's a lot of work.
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camomille,I will probably have to disturb my grey matter and learn to work with eclipse myself. I don 't want to bother you with my requests anymore. :)
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@indman
Eclipse is only a tool that must be mastered, but the difficulty is to learn and understand the Java language.
Me, I do not know either, as I said before, it's enough to have time, gray matter and intuition.
In addition to these difficulties, you must constantly translate the notes into Chinese, understand in French (my language), convert to English (for all the world) and possibly incorporate Russian.
I do not speak English or Russian and it is the biggest difficulty because I spend a lot of time with the automatic translator and the checking so that it is almost comprehensible.
If you have time, gray matter and intuition (I think so), then I can give you a tutorial to install it and give you the source in a "workspace".
Otherwise I can make you the incorporation of your texts in Cyrillic, but we must limit you for an important reason, is that I must search all calls to this list for each word and copy / paste your word in Cyrillic, the problem is that if I forget one, at some point your program will be stoped without knowing why and I would not know why.
I will already try with the 2 words "Offline" and "Auto" that you have communicated to me in Cyrillic and you will test.
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@indman
test with "Нет сети" rejected, apparently it does not tolerate the spaces in the messages, would "Нет_сети" be readable?
I'm not sure he passes because he converted "Trg_d" into "Trig'd", no "underscore" in the direct list.
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@indman
If you have time, gray matter and intuition (I think so), then I can give you a tutorial to install it and give you the source in a "workspace".
Yeah, I 'd like to try it.
I 'm not sure I 'll quickly deal with a new tool for me after your explanation.
test with "Нет сети" rejected, apparently it does not tolerate the spaces in the messages, would "Нет_сети" be readable?
I'm not sure he passes because he converted "Trg_d" into "Trig'd", no "underscore" in the direct list.
Yes, "Нет_сети" will be well perceived
"Trig 'd" is meant as "TriggerDetected"?
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@indman
"Нет_сети" has passed but "Авто" does not want (error message), surely implications with the real "Auto"
Here is the link version RUSS (status "Нет сети" + extended calibration module for Cyrillic CTRL L).
https://ufile.io/ghszrdyu
rename VDS_C2_23_RUSS in VDS_C2_23
"Trig'd" no idea
If you want a tutorial to install eclipse, tell me your operating system and if 32 or 64
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camomille,Windows7 64bit,thanks
For your reboot problem after a break, I do not know this problem because I do not use the VDS1022
but I think the track to follow would be rather the USB bus controllers with the power option try unchecked.
I did as you suggested, but it didn 't solve the problem. After a pause of 1 minute or more, the program reports the error with this message "Read or write content err and disconect" and reconnects.
If the pause is shorter, everything works fine.
"Нет_сети" has passed but "Авто" does not want (error message), surely implications with the real "Auto"
Here is the link version RUSS (status "Нет сети" + extended calibration module for Cyrillic CTRL L).
I checked - it works well. What CLASS files have you changed so I can replace them in the JAR archive?
I 'm right - "Trig 'd" is meant as "TriggerDetected"
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I wonder if I have installed a fresh version of 1.0.30 and there is no such effect with the PAUSE button - everything works normally. Can any of the scope owners confirm my version? :-//
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Here is the list of modified files for Offline in Cyrillic
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\source\comm\TrgStatus
line 25 replace Offline by Нет_сети
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\source\comm\detect\InitLinkRunner
line 54 replace TrgStatus.Offline by TrgStatus.Нет_сети
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\source\comm\detect\USBLoopChecker
line 109 replace TrgStatus.Offline by TrgStatus.Нет_сети
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\TitlePane
line 139 replace TrgStatus.Offline by TrgStatus.Нет_сети
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\TitleStatusLabel
line 73 replace TrgStatus.Offline by TrgStatus.Нет_сети
all these files for 1 word
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I wonder if I have installed a fresh version of 1.0.30 and there is no such effect with the PAUSE button - everything works normally. Can any of the scope owners confirm my version? :-//
I'm afraid I can't remember. From my records, this is the list of changes that I (and others) observed between the various versions...
V1.0.11
- Fixed delay in bringing up 'Display' menu (introduced in V1.0.8 )
- Skins working (Black / Blue).
- Math function works Ch1 - Ch2
- FPGA Image V3.5
V1.0.23
- Java Sources included in distribution (oops!).
- Skins working
- Math function broken Ch1 - Ch2 defaults to 5V range, changing it results in flat-line.
- FPGA Image V3.5
V1.0.27
- Math function works
- Skins work
- FPGA Image V3.5
V1.0.28
- FPGA Image V3.7 introduced
V1.0.29
- FPGA Image V3.7
- com.google.gson_2.1.0.v201203072145.jar added to plugins folder (?)
V1.0.30
- FPGA Image V3.7
- com.google.gson_2.1.0.v201203072145.jar in plugins folder.
- Doesn't remember timebase settings across program close.
- Crash when zooming horizontal when in stopped mode.
It is all a little irrelevant though, because it was only V1.0.23 where Owon accidentally included the source files in the distribution. You wouldn't be able to get the Cyrillic changes on the other versions.
Can I suggest using the image save button to capture screenshots rather than keeping the scope in pause for long periods, maybe that would be sufficient to get you over the issue.
The only other thing that Owon introduced in V1.0.28+ was a new FPGA code version - V3.7. If I remember correct, I was able to copy that from the V1.0.30 'fpga' folder and drop it into the V1.0.23 fpga folder without any issues. Whether it makes a difference though...?
P.S. The above list isn't completely comprehensive - different experiences of V1.0.30, maybe related to what version was installed previously.
EDIT: I've just got my VDS out and checked the Pause button behaviour - It's working fine on Alain's latest V1.0.23. Maybe try reinstalling the USB driver... or re-running V1.0.23 after your new install of V1.0.30.
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EDIT: I've just got my VDS out and checked the Pause button behaviour - It's working fine on Alain's latest V1.0.23. Maybe try reinstalling the USB driver... or re-running V1.0.23 after your new install of V1.0.30.
After your advice, my grey matter came into motion and today I spent a few hours investigating the causes with the Pause button problem.
I installed the original version of owon 1.0.23 without any changes to 2 different computers with the Windows7 64bit operating system. Libusb driver version -1.2.6.0
On both computers the behavior of Pause button was absolutely the same - after 30 or more seconds USB reconnection occurred.
Then I decided to install a newer version of 1.0.27 on both computers as well.
In this version, the Pause button does not cause problems, you can stop the image for any length of time.
Then I installed an older version of 1.0.11 and in its work there is also a problem with the Pause button. So the developer has fixed this problem since version 1.0.27.
Next, I tried to determine which of the JAR archives had changed and, by comparison, I calculated that if you move the folder plugins/com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar archive from version 1.0.27 to version 1.0.23, the problem disappears.
Next to this item, my grey matter is not yet moving. :)
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what matters is that your problem is solved. :-+
I checked, I also have the driver libusb_win32 1.2.6.0 of 18/01/12.
I'm on the tutorial eclipse and to be sure I made a new installation on another computer with Windows 7 64 bit and it works perfectly.
I only have the layout, maybe this Week end !
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Next, I tried to determine which of the JAR archives had changed and, by comparison, I calculated that if you move the folder plugins/com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0.jar archive from version 1.0.27 to version 1.0.23, the problem disappears.
That's very useful information. :-+
I have suspected for a while that 'traces' left by other versions of the S/W can affect what problems can show up - so much that when I was trying to generate my list of version differences, I kept getting confused by what was reliably broken! If you look back a few pages at comments about the Owon website copy of 1.0.30 you will see mention of the bugs I listed, however reinstalling different versions made them not reproducible. I was also convinced that the skin selection function got broken in (I think) 1.0.28 and then fixed again in 1.0.29, but again, I eventually started doubting myself on that too. One thing that seemed consistent - the CD version that comes with the scope almost universally works.
The good thing about Alain's rebuild of V1.0.23 is that it doesn't actually need installing any more, just unzip and run from the folder.
One thing I can say though is that 1.0.23 is a nice vintage!
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To do this tutorial correctly,I tested the complete and functional installation on Windows 7 64 bits virgin of any previous installation
I am not a professional programmer, just a passionate enthusiast of electronics and a Microsoft Basic language experience (VB6) so do not blame me if it's not perfect, it's to help people take the first step.
To reassure people who embark on this adventure, Eclipse is a great tool easy to understand and if Pascal language is the most used in the world, it is for the same reason.
I will do a little tutorial later with my tips to find places to annotate to make its own changes.
Excuse me for my bad English because the translator is my friend.
PREALABLE
To be compatible with VDS1022 source V1.0.23, 32-bit versions of programs must be installed
Respect the order indicated to avoid questions to which I will not be able to answer.
INSTALLATION
1) Create a "DEV" folder with a subfolder "jre6" (C:\Program Files (x86)\DEV\jre6)
Create a folder "Protect" on the desk
2) Installation JAVA (jre 6.45)
https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/java-archive-javase8-2177648.html (https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/java-archive-javase8-2177648.html)
Oracle will ask you to open an account (Free license)
[attach=1]
Check "Accept Licence Agreement" and download jre-8u111-windows-i586.exe (not jdk-8u111-windows-i586.exe)
[attach=2]
Install jre-8u111-windows-i586.exe ,change the destination folder in "DEV / jre6" and refuse updates
[attach=8]
3) Download my "workspace 1.0.23.7z" and uncompressed 2 times 1 time on the desktop and 1 time in the folder "Protect" (original for a clean restart)
workspace 1.0.23.7z
https://ufile.io/38k65e74 (https://ufile.io/38k65e74)
Or for Russian
workspace 1.0.23_russ.7z
https://ufile.io/3rm8uyma (https://ufile.io/3rm8uyma)
4) Installation of Eclipse (Mars SR2 Packages (2016 - v4.5.2)) https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/release/mars/r (https://www.eclipse.org/downloads/packages/release/mars/r)
[attach=3]
download : Eclipse for RCP and RAP Developers 32-bit version
Unziper eclipse-rcp-mars-R-win32.zip in the "C: \ Program Files (x86) \ DEV \" (eclipse does not need installation)
Create an eclipse.exe shortcut on the desktop.
Launch eclipse from the desktop shortcut
At the first launch eclipse asks for the path of workpace ,change the path of the workpace with path
workspace 1.0.23 (workspace 1.0.23_russ for Russian) in the desk
and check "Use this as default and do not ask again"
[attach=4]
Now you have a complete installation, just click on the white arrow in a green circle and you have emulation of the VDS1022.
[attach=5]
[attach=6]
OPTIONNEL
1) Language Pack (for non-English speakers)
link for the Russian language (all other languages are present on the same page) https://archive.eclipse.org/technology/babel/babel_language_packs/R0.12.0/luna/luna.php (https://archive.eclipse.org/technology/babel/babel_language_packs/R0.12.0/luna/luna.php)
[attach=7]
Copy / Paste the contents of each folder (features, plugins) in its equivalent to the root of the Eclipse installation
2) JAR launcher (to redo the launcher provided)launch4j 3.12
https://sourceforge.net/projects/launch4j/files/launch4j-3/3.12/ (https://sourceforge.net/projects/launch4j/files/launch4j-3/3.12/)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For newcomers, I give the first links to launch VDS1022 without installing it.
VDS_C2_23.7z
https://ufile.io/1kd4j2te (https://ufile.io/1kd4j2te)
rxtxSerial.dll
https://ufile.io/o64cfpvd (https://ufile.io/o64cfpvd)
Alain
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Captain Alain I have implemented your detailed recommendations in the same order, thank you very much! :-+
Eclipse starts, but I 'm alarmed by the message I highlighted in red. Is that okay?
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I have no mistakes on my new installation on Windows 7 64 bits and in english !
It may have been necessary to try without installing the Russian language right now.
0 errors ,normally it' s good ,the warning are not mistakes ,it must be because of the russian language.
What happens if you click on the white arrow in a green circle (no need to be connected to vds1022)
You can close all the tabs that I forgot to close, except the Main.java which must always remain open .
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Yes, the VDS1022 shell opens normally without a scope connection. :D
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You are a great chef, :-+ :-+ ,you can now connected the VDS1022 ,close VDS1022 window and relaunch the white arrow in the green circle
I will do a little tutorial later to indicate how I search (but it takes a lot of nose) and it is important to know what you are looking for.
In any case, as there is no installation of this version of eclipse, you can simply put the eclipse folder in the trash and dezip it again in the "DEV" folder (not for java which is installed). :-DD
and if you plant the "workspace", you have a brand new one in the folder "Protect"
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I 'm not afraid to know anything new, especially if there 's a teacher like you! ;D
My grey matter is still capable of it, I hope. :-DD
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Many thanks for doing the writeups Alain.
indman's need is greater than mine (thanks to you, I don't actually have anything I want to change at the moment), but I will be following along.
Your Reply #425 made it sound sooo appealing! ;D
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I first want to apologize to Gyro for monopolizing his thread for off-topic, but eventually it may be beneficial to others.
I do not intend to do a course on eclipse or Java because I'm not a specialist, but simply communicate some tips and tricks to help beginners (of course it will laugh professionals).
I preferred to make a document to not take up too much space.
https://ufile.io/lsx8je0u
As an example I took my search procedure to change the color of curves:
The research phase (2 modes):
1) with eclipse, the search only displays the first occurrence, you have to open the following folders to see everything.
Warning it tends to change tab.
[attach=1]
2) with Notepad ++
involves uploading the source folder (contained in version 1.0.23) to the "Protect" folder
, the search displays all the occurrences and in addition displays the notes in original Chinese which allows to make a copy/paste to a translator.
At first, we only have the word "red", so we start a search with Notepad ++,
we notice that many are called "color.red", we restart a search with "color.red".
[attach=2]
Now you have to be inspired by looking at the name of the JAR file containing the word "color.red",
I was inspired by "ChartDecorater" and I print it thanks to notepad++ which preserves syntactic colors.
Then I format the impression of this class in pencil and stabilo to understand and make notes
[attach=3]
Inspire by the paintLabels () function line 137 and line 172 wfm.paintWaveFormInfo (g2d, pc, r, cm, lr, cssm);
line 36 indicates wfm = WaveFormManager
print class WaveFormManager, pencil, stabilo
[attach=4]
inspire by the function WaveFormInfoControl () line 550 and line 584 wf.paintItem (g2d, pc, r, cm, false)
especially at line 580 there is wf.getChannelNumber ().
line 29 indicates wf = WaveForm
print Waveform class, pencil, stabilo
[attach=5]
Inspire by the paintItem () function line 289 and
line 306 LineUtil.paintChannelLabel (yb, y, bottom, g2d, String.valueOf (ci.getNumber () + 1), 2, onFront);
print LineUtil class, pencil, stabilo
[attach=6]
Analysis of the paintChannelLabel () function line 46
We can see that he draws the left label of the lines 118/119 and a line 111 to 116.
Only the color of the background "DARK_GRAY" is defined, it is necessary to go back for the color of the plot.
Return to the paintItem function of the WaveForm class
at line 300 ChannelInfo ci = wfi.ci; and 301 g2d.setColor (getColor ());
line 116 defined wfi = WaveFormInfo and in the class WaveFormInfo line 24 we read that ci = ChannelInfo
So we look in the class ChannelInfo and we find the RGB () line 117 and then the color for 4 channels 120 to 123 lines.
Simply replace "FF0000" with "00FF00" to switch channel 1 from red to green.
It was simple !!!
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I first want to apologize to Gyro for monopolizing his thread for off-topic, but eventually it may be beneficial to others.
Hey Alain, there's absolutely no need for any apology to me! :o
The 'teardown' portion of this thread has long run its course. You are adding great value by opening up the possibility to enhance and modify the S/W - I, for one, am very grateful to you!
There is nothing to stop people continuing to asking H/W or other questions or hopefully even post improvements at the same time.
As far as I'm concerned you are very on-topic, this is a natural and very welcome progression of the thread (which I have no claim on 'owning' anyway).
I am following your write-ups with interest and as much grey matter as I can muster!
Chris.
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Thanks Chris, but it's in my nature to communicate to help people with the little that I know. :phew:
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Small tutorial for eclipse
To work on multiple versions of VDS1022, create a copy on the workspace 1.0.23 desktop and rename it as you want.
Then change the path:
[attach=1]
To create a JAR file (ignore messages):
[attach=2]
To debug with breakpoint:
[attach=3]
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I've caught up with indman and also have the shell running under Eclipse. Thanks Alain. :-+
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Glad you have also taken the step, anyway, it's a good experience.
Do not hesitate if you need advice and I can answer
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it's possible (run with "org.eclipse.equinox.launcher_1.3.0.v20120522-1813.jar")
Mission accomplished
Hi camomille!
Can you name the files that have been changed for the Save button function? :)
Studying eclipse I get hard - I am not a programmer and not at all familiar with Java language. :palm:
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@indman
Everything is in my posts 327 and 331.
The goal was to discover the instruction that makes screenshots and adapt it to the bottom icon.
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\pane\function\UtilityPane
the instruction screenshot (2 lines 260 and 261, see curly brackets)
[attach=1]
owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\sub\ButtonPane
the instruction to save text (line 107) that must be modified to obtain a screenshot.
[attach=2]
Line 107 has been modified after many tests (because I do not know Java either) to arrive at this change that works.
[attach=3]
Make with a practical addon on Notepad ++ "compare"
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Hello to everyone!
After numerous experiments, I was able to combine in one archive all the advantages of version 1.0.23 with the excellent additions from Alain and the library from version 1.0.30.
I suggest you check this portable version on your devices.
In addition, I made some new icons for the shell and also updated the icon for the launcher VDS1022. Now just unpack this backup and run the shell with the VDS1022.exe file. If you already have USB drivers installed, everything should work normally. If no drivers are installed, you must install them by running install.bat from the USBDRV folder. :)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1nygEmjECjqWPxkZUylIh-6TrZdQV8evK
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You're becoming quite the artist indman :) I like the button tidy-ups.
BTW, the sel boxes look better with linear fill rather than radial (the unsl ones are linear anyway). You still have a hint of Red in your sel1. I modified the sel2 to match.
The unsl ones don't need to be changed.
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I was going to buy one from Ebay to get the best prices, But the sellers dont know what they are selling, The title of their listing is for an OWON VDS1022I but the photo`s are from an OWON VDS1022, The non isolated version.
I messaged two sellers and got nonsense reply`s so i bought from neither.
Being in the UK they hit us hard with import charges on anything over £15 and that includes shipping, So i order from UK sellers only when the value is over £15, As if i order like from AliExpress anything over £15 You have to add 20% tax and £8 Royal Mail handling charge.
John.
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There is no difference in the labelling on the top of the unit between the non-isolated and isolated versions. They both say VDS1022. The isolation is a PCB population option.
The only way it is distinguished is on the serial number label on the underside.
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There is no difference in the labelling on the top of the unit between the non-isolated and isolated versions. They both say VDS1022. The isolation is a PCB population option.
The only way it is distinguished is on the serial number label on the underside.
That seems a strange practice, But it explains what i have been seeing, Thanks
John.
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First apologize for my English since it is not my first language.
I bought a VDS1022I 2 weeks ago and it is a good oscilloscope for its price. I just found this thread and there is a lot of information about it. Thank you all for that.
I installed the original software version 1.0.29 and it works mostly well. The only annoying fault I found is that the pulse trigger does not respect the specified time. Moreover, the time x10 must be specified. For example, to synchronize with a 1mS pulse, you must specify in the 10mS software.
I downloaded a version 1.0.24 from the Internet and it has the same bug, but since this version included the source code, I decided to try to compile it and correct the bug. Fortunately I was able to do it without inconvenience and it works perfectly (comment on line 30 of ClockTimeAdjuster.java [// en - = 1;]).
Now in this thread I see that camomille did a similar job with Eclipse and 1.0.23 (which is mostly the same as 1.0.24 except for some detail and comments). I did it with Netbeans.
Unfortunately in 1.0.24 I got a new bug (which is already reported in this thread) which is the USB disconnection in stop mode. In version 1.0.29 it is not disconnected from USB in stop mode, therefore I decided to sniffer the USB connection with both versions and see the difference. And bingo! Version 1.0.24 does not generate any traffic while in stop mode, but version 1.0.29 continues to send and receive "keep alive" packets every 2 seconds. I disassembled some classes in version 1.0.29 to compare them, and I could implement in 1.0.24 the sending of "keep alive" packages (heartbeat), so now version 1.0.24 is fully functional and modifiable and compilable.
Great thread about the VDS1022 !!!
PS: Gyro, my oscilloscope has the inscription "VDS1022I" on the case.
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Hello crai,
Welcome to the forum, and especially to this thread! :) Please don't be concerned about your English, it's very good.
You've clearly uncovered some very useful information, pretty good for a mere 2 weeks ownership! It sounds as if you are fluent in Java.
I've never noticed the pulse width trigger issue, although I can't remember using it (surprisingly) - but it seems that others haven't either, as I don't remember seeing it flagged.
The lack of keep-alive packets prior to V1.0.29* would certainly explain the issue that indman saw (and why copying the foundation file from V1.0.27 29* fixed it), I don't know if the need for this is OS or hardware related, as, again, it doesn't appear to issue for many people - although clearly common enough for Owon to have needed to release an update for it.
I've never come across V1.0.24, it's certainly not in my archive (hence camomille using 1.0.23) . Does this include sources too? I would certainly appreciate a link, if only for completeness reasons. It would be the latest version with sources available (unless a 1.0.25 or 26) were ever made public) if so.
Interesting that Owon have now seen fit to introduce an 'I' version to the case silkscreen, it certainly makes sense once the volume is there. I don't know when that happened (clearly after I bought mine). I suspect that most ebay sellers are still using stock photos.
Thanks again for joining us and bringing so much useful information. Time to think about a new features wishlist. ;)
Edit: *USB Heartbeat almost certainly added at V1.0.27
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I think that this OWON VDS1022 (I) model was very successful in the segment of inexpensive USB scope. It 's just not as popular and known in people as Instrustar/Hantek. The more VDS1022 owners appear in this topic, the more useful information we can gather and improve this product together. ;)
I noticed another problem in the mathematical channel that is present in all versions of the shell, including 1.0.30. The selected range value (for example,5V) is not saved when the program is reloaded. There is also no preservation of this meaning if you remove the bird from the function of mathematics and put it again.
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I was just trying to update my version changes list...
It looks as if the USB heartbeat was maybe first introduced in V1.0.27 (this is the version that you took your library file from to fix your pause issue, indman?).
I was wondering if this could be related to the change of FPGA firmware from V3.5 to V3.7, but this happened at V1.0.28.
It's at moments like this, when new information becomes available, that I really wish that Owon knew how to write release notes! |O
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It looks as if the USB heartbeat was maybe first introduced in V1.0.27 (this is the version that you took your library file from to fix your pause issue, indman?).
Yes,V1.0.27. I 'm glad the crai confirmed the shell problem with the Pause button. I thought it was only on my scope.
But, in the portable version of the shell I introduced earlier, I used a library from V1.0.30
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Hi Gyro, thanks for the reply.
Version 1.0.24 contains the source code and I downloaded it from the Peaktech site (peaktech.de), whose 1290 model is the Owon VDS1022 (rebranded). (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html))
The only difference in Peaktech software with that of Owon is the logo and configuration files uppersoft.dso.prefs.default.ini that contain the texts and url of the About window. I overwritten these files with those of Owon.
I have not got an original version 1.0.23, the ones I have are modified. Comparing them with 1.0.24 it seems that the changes are minimal (most seem to be changes made by third parties to the version 1.0.23 that I got). If you know of a link to an original version 1.0.23 available to download, I would like to indicate it, so I can compare it with 1.0.24.
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I do not recall whether this useful resource, which also has modified versions of the shell, was mentioned VDS1022 :)
https://github.com/florentbr/Owon-VDS1022
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Hi Gyro, thanks for the reply.
Version 1.0.24 contains the source code and I downloaded it from the Peaktech site (peaktech.de), whose 1290 model is the Owon VDS1022 (rebranded). (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html))
The only difference in Peaktech software with that of Owon is the logo and configuration files uppersoft.dso.prefs.default.ini that contain the texts and url of the About window. I overwritten these files with those of Owon.
I have not got an original version 1.0.23, the ones I have are modified. Comparing them with 1.0.24 it seems that the changes are minimal (most seem to be changes made by third parties to the version 1.0.23 that I got). If you know of a link to an original version 1.0.23 available to download, I would like to indicate it, so I can compare it with 1.0.24.
It's a confusing world. :palm: I had no idea that the Peaktech was an Owon rebrand!
Yes sure, I have uploaded my archive of all original Owon versions in captivity to https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5 (https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5) (use the free download button, valid for 30 days).
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I do not recall whether this useful resource, which also has modified versions of the shell, was mentioned VDS1022 :)
https://github.com/florentbr/Owon-VDS1022
A working native linux version? I didn't realize anyone had fixed the FPGA image download problem. That's good news.
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Thank you very much Gyro for the full repository of installers.
Comparing the source codes of version 1.0.23 and 1.0.24 are practically the same. Only in method wrPos0 of class com.owon.uppersoft.vds.source.comm.Submitor2.java
add 3 lines of code that seem to adapt the V/div scale automatically in some situation.
if (pos0 > 225 || pos0 < -225) {
v = v + 1;
}
Thanks again
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I do not recall whether this useful resource, which also has modified versions of the shell, was mentioned VDS1022 :)
https://github.com/florentbr/Owon-VDS1022
Native linux version :-+. Just tried on Mint Linux 19.1 and it work. :clap:
Excellent finding indman and many thanks to florentbr.
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Hi!
I really like the additions florentbr has made, especially the new hotkeys are convenient. You can see that he did a lot of work to improve the shell.
I will try to combine all the tips that are collected in this topic into one archive. :)
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I tested USB isolator based on ADUM4160 with VDS1022I.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909293430.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4a6d73d0WWRYdv&algo_pvid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d&algo_expid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d-1&btsid=cc875904-9ad3-45a3-b688-a786dd8d88a9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_55 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909293430.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4a6d73d0WWRYdv&algo_pvid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d&algo_expid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d-1&btsid=cc875904-9ad3-45a3-b688-a786dd8d88a9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_55)
This design allows external power supply of the oscilloscope from the power bank and saves the notebook battery. You need to use high quality and short USB cables. When used as an insulator it is necessary to place the power bank together with the module in an insulated box.
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@indman:
Sorry to report a minor bug in your portable s/w version, that you linked in reply#450. :(
In playing around, I noticed that with the probes shorted and sensitivity set to 5mV/div (Probe x1 setting), the CH1 trace had virtually no noise compared to CH2. By tying the probes together, I found that instead of 5mV/div it is actually selecting 500mV/div. This is duplicated on the other probe multiplier settings (eg. 5V instead of 50mV on probe X10 etc.).
One other thing I noticed is that I was getting voltage offsets at zero signal on various ranges, which I hadn't seen previously - even after Factory Reset and Self Cal. Then I remembered you saying that you had manually tuned your scope for maximum accuracy on voltage readings....
After some experimenting, I found that both \flash_text\flashmemory.txt and \configuration\com.owon.uppersoft.dso\pref.properties seem to be involved in storage of calibration data. Copying both files from my previous (camomille) installation restored the zero offsets.
I am not surprised that your portable snapshot would contain calibration data for your specific unit, what did surprise me is that Factory Reset and Self Cal didn't completely resolve it - curious. The good thing is that these two files appear to hold all of the relevant calibration data - I don't think anything gets stored in Flash on the unit.
I am still trying to figure out the difference between the 'Zero Amplitude' and [EDIT: 'Zero Offset' 'Zero Compensation'] tabs in the calibration screen. I suspect that one is for AC coupled and the other for DC but haven't established that yet.
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I tested USB isolator based on ADUM4160 with VDS1022I.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909293430.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4a6d73d0WWRYdv&algo_pvid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d&algo_expid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d-1&btsid=cc875904-9ad3-45a3-b688-a786dd8d88a9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_55 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909293430.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4a6d73d0WWRYdv&algo_pvid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d&algo_expid=5bd4a6ec-78d8-4367-b985-da6000cf8f4d-1&btsid=cc875904-9ad3-45a3-b688-a786dd8d88a9&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10,searchweb201603_55)
This design allows external power supply of the oscilloscope from the power bank and saves the notebook battery. You need to use high quality and short USB cables. When used as an insulator it is necessary to place the power bank together with the module in an insulated box.
Welcome to the forum topol,
A good idea, as most cheap USB isolators don't have enough DC-DC converter wattage. It also allows you the opportunity to feed a quieter supply to the scope (although the supplies are well regulated).
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@indman:
Sorry to report a minor bug in your portable s/w version, that you linked in reply#450.
After some experimenting, I found that both \flash_text\flashmemory.txt and \configuration\com.owon.uppersoft.dso\pref.properties seem to be involved in storage of calibration data. Copying both files from my previous (camomille) installation restored the zero offsets.
I am not surprised that your portable snapshot would contain calibration data for your specific unit, what did surprise me is that Factory Reset and Self Cal didn't completely resolve it - curious. The good thing is that these two files appear to hold all of the relevant calibration data - I don't think anything gets stored in Flash on the unit.
Gyro ,Thank you for the useful information. I am also surprised that selfcalibration and return to factory reset failed to return the original installations for scope.
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@indman:
Sorry to report a minor bug in your portable s/w version, that you linked in reply#450. :(
In playing around, I noticed that with the probes shorted and sensitivity set to 5mV/div (Probe x1 setting), the CH1 trace had virtually no noise compared to CH2. By tying the probes together, I found that instead of 5mV/div it is actually selecting 500mV/div. This is duplicated on the other probe multiplier settings (eg. 5V instead of 50mV on probe X10 etc.).
... rest of quote deleted by me for clarity
This has animated me to follow up on this and to take some screenshots.
This bug you are talking about - I seem to have always had, no matter which software version. I didn't realise this at first as a rookie.
I thought it was the probes or a slightly skewed input channel in the oscilloscope.
Swapping the probes doesn't change anything. It is definitely just CH2.
The traces are in 5 second persistance mode. It is much easier to see that way. CH1 is set at 1div and CH2 at 0div.
Hope this helps in some way. If any "experiments" with the oscilloscope are needed, throw 'em at me, I'm in the mood ...
Ah, yes, nearly forgot the pics.
Cheers!
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Curious.
No I don't think the bug has always been there - see the screenshots that I posted back in 2015 (Hey this thread is useful :D) in reply #2 and #3, I also had measurements turned on... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg739874/#msg739874 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg739874/#msg739874)
I forgot to note which version I was running back then but I'd lay odds that it was V1.0.23 or earlier.
Time for some version investigation again. Luckily I have them all (as do camomille and indman now.) ;)
EDIT: I'm confused now, I've just been back to V1.0.4 and am still seeing it. It's got me wondering if something has got modified in the hardware configuration!
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Hi Gyro, thanks for the reply.
Version 1.0.24 contains the source code and I downloaded it from the Peaktech site (peaktech.de), whose 1290 model is the Owon VDS1022 (rebranded). (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html (https://www.peaktech.de/detalle-del-producto/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html))
The only difference in Peaktech software with that of Owon is the logo and configuration files uppersoft.dso.prefs.default.ini that contain the texts and url of the About window. I overwritten these files with those of Owon.
I have not got an original version 1.0.23, the ones I have are modified. Comparing them with 1.0.24 it seems that the changes are minimal (most seem to be changes made by third parties to the version 1.0.23 that I got). If you know of a link to an original version 1.0.23 available to download, I would like to indicate it, so I can compare it with 1.0.24.
It's a confusing world. :palm: I had no idea that the Peaktech was an Owon rebrand!
Yes sure, I have uploaded my archive of all original Owon versions in captivity to https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5 (https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5) (use the free download button, valid for 30 days).
I just looked at the specifications of the Peaktech1290. The vertical sensitivity appears to be better.
2mV/div as compared to 5mV/div for the OWON. A typo maybe, cheeky marketing ...?
This has me wondering if it is real. I would like some more sensitivity on my VDS1022 ...
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Curious.
No I don't think the bug has always been there - see the screenshots that I posted back in 2015 (Hey this thread is useful :D) in reply #2 and #3, I also had measurements turned on... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg739874/#msg739874 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg739874/#msg739874)
I forgot to note which version I was running back then but I'd lay odds that it was V1.0.23 or earlier.
Time for some version investigation again. Luckily I have them all (as do camomille and indman now.) ;)
EDIT: I'm confused now, I've just been back to V1.0.4 and am still seeing it. It's got me wondering if something has got modified in the hardware configuration!
Uh oh, hope I didn't start a wild goose chase. The screenshots from my previous post are from the GYRO special as I call it now. Thats the version 1.0.23 you made with colorful icons and the button for easy saving of screenshots. I really love it! Thank you for making it.
I just installed version 1.0.29 and made a screenshot again with no probes attached. Also a new screenshot of GYRO special v1.0.23
also without probes. The infinite persistance mode does not seem to work, pixels keep disappearing. Seems more like 5 second mode.
I originally started with version 1.0.26 which was on the CD I received with the scope.
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Right, I've got a handle on it now (I think). The bug got fixed in V1.0.29... V1.0.28 shows the wrong Ch1 5mV scaling factor, V1.0.29 and V1.0.30 do it correctly.
Phew, I was beginning to think that something in my scope was permanently screwed there! :phew:
Given that @indman took his libraries from V1.0.30 to go with the modified V1.0.23, the error must be in the main code. @camomille would have automatically had the bug because he worked from the V1.0.23 sources.
Another one for my 'Owon substitute changelog'. |O
If you want my previous versions archive, it is still active and looks as if it has about 20 days still to run: https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5 (https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5). Please feel free to double check me.
P.S. Once you have installed once (drivers), you don't need to keep re-installing each version - you can just unzip (7zip works) each OWON_VDS_C2_1.0.xx_Setup.exe into a separate folder and run it from there.
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P.S. Once you have installed once (drivers), you don't need to keep re-installing each version - you can just unzip (7zip works) each OWON_VDS_C2_1.0.xx_Setup.exe into a separate folder and run it from there.
Yes, you are right - there is no need to install a fresh version every time. It is essentially portable if USB drivers are already installed. I tracked on a clean computer what keys this program puts on the register. It leaves nothing essential on the register. I attached the screenshot below. So does the question remain who was the ancestor of this shell - OWON or PeakTech?
I am now using a version from florentbr(base v1.0.30) with additions that have already been discussed here. I also wrote a letter to florentbr thanking him and invited him to take part in this topic. But I haven 't received a response from him yet.
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So does the question remain who was the ancestor of this shell - OWON or PeakTech?
Good question - OWON are certainly the OEM for the Hardware (I think Peaktech is a rebrand) but as for the original stack.... I still wonder where the Uppersoft reference comes from in the folder tree?*
I am now using a version from florentbr(base v1.0.30) with additions that have already been discussed here. I also wrote a letter to florentbr thanking him and invited him to take part in this topic. But I haven 't received a response from him yet.
Good idea, he seems to have put a lot of work in on it... and having a working linux version! :-+ I'm having trouble installing on win7 64bit though, the script doesn't work for me. I have Java V8 installed but it doesn't seem to see it and its attempt to download it fails.
I suspect that the Ch1 5mV bug on V1.0.28 and lower is probably a simple typo but probably beyond my skills.
EDIT: * Owon certainly have the capability of modifying the s/w (doesn't everyone these days? ;D), they fixed a bug for me on one of the early versions, but they took their time about it and had to send me a couple of test versions before it was fixed and they have been somewhat accident prone over the various versions.
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I'm having trouble installing on win7 64bit though, the script doesn't work for me. I have Java V8 installed but it doesn't seem to see it and its attempt to download it fails.
Yes, the script of installing the version on the Win7x64 at me also did not work correctly. He told me about an error creating a shell start shortcut. So I made it easier - opened install-win.cmd and looked at the conditions that are needed to create this shortcut.
It has such a long text on my computer:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre1.8.0_111\bin\javaw.exe" -Djava.library.path="C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\OwonVdsTiny\lib" -Duser.dir="C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\OwonVdsTiny\etc" -cp "C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\OwonVdsTiny\jar\*" "com.owon.vds.tiny.Main"
After creating such a shortcut, the program starts normally. ;)
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@indman:
Thanks, I finally got it working. For some reason I had to install the 64bit version of Java too before the script would recognize that it was installed!
Like you, I had to manually create the shortcut - it works both with the x86 version of Java and the 64 bit. It all took a while - I am not as quick on the uptake as I used to be!
Unfortunately this version misses the one function that started the discussion with camomille (a few pages back) and prompted his interest in learning and modifying the Java code - that was making the save button on the main screen save a graphic image file, rather than a text file. :D
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Unfortunately this version misses the one function that started the discussion with camomille (a few pages back) and prompted his interest in learning and modifying the Java code - that was making the save button on the main screen save a graphic image file, rather than a text file. :D
This is easily added(compilation is unnecessary) after the respected camomille explained everything in Reply # 449
Replace files in owon-vds-tiny-1.0.30-cf6.jar archive with files in camomille archive:
1. Owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\pane\function\UtilityPane
2. Owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\sub\ButtonPane (including all files with this name)
Also in the version from florentbr this function is conveniently called via Ctrl+S
Just as easily now you can put any header in the name of the shell. And also change the color of the beam in Channel 1 to green - I like it most.
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Hello everyone,
I am attentively your discussion around the problem CH1, later I will look for why this shift of step.
If I understood correctly, when the 2 channels are on the same value displayed on the selector, channel 1 is shifted by 2 steps in real amplitude.
example:
CH1 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 500mV / div
CH2 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 5mV / div
is it this ?
Alain
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I can not see the problem of CH1
my settings for the 2 channels:
AC 5 mV X1 probes X1
screenshot X25
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Hello everyone,
I am attentively your discussion around the problem CH1, later I will look for why this shift of step.
If I understood correctly, when the 2 channels are on the same value displayed on the selector, channel 1 is shifted by 2 steps in real amplitude.
example:
CH1 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 500mV / div
CH2 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 5mV / div
is it this ?
Alain
Hi Alain,
Thanks for chiming in. Yes, that's what seems to be happening. I'd never noticed it (I guess I've never used the bottom range) until Nullarbor raised it. The problem does seem to happen with V1.0.28 or before.
I can not see the problem of CH1
my settings for the 2 channels:
AC 5 mV X1 probes X1
Strange, I'll do some more testing but the behaviour does seem consistent. The best way I've found of showing it is to clip the two probe tips together and allow a little mains hum, approaching the tips with a finger if necessary. Then overlaying the traces.
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@Gyro
That's what I did in the middle screenshot of the image above.
A clarification, I do not have the isolated version.
If I can not highlight it, I can not search. |O
Alain
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Ah ok, I read it as probes disconnected, probes shorted and GND - what I meant was probe tips Ch0 and Ch1 clipped together, ground clips disconnected.
The GND setting just does a flat line in s/w by the way.
EDIT: Screenshots for 5mV and 10mV added...
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always screenshot X25
I do not see any problem !!
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same conditions as you
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Very confused! :-//
I clearly need to investigate.
EDIT: I wonder if it's a H/W version thing. Or a fault developed on my and Nullarbor's scopes?
EDIT1: What can I say guys, I seem to have got into the situation where ONLY Owon original V1.0.29 and V1.0.30 produce the correct scaling on Ch1 5mV. Neither camomille versions (original or portable), indman's composite 1.0.23 with V1.0.30 libraries, or even florentbr scale correctly for me. The behaviour is 100% consistent, switching between versions without disconnecting the scope or factory reset. Even going from Original V1.0.28 to V1.0.29 and back is consistent both ways. I am totally lost! :palm:
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Gyro, сan you show us the calibration window 5mV by pressing Ctrl+L on version 1.0.23 and version 1.0.30?
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@indman:
Thanks very much, you cracked it! No need for screenshots - in every non-working case, Ch1 5mV Coarse Gain is set to all zeros. In working versions, it is set to a sensible value - within a couple of digits of Ch2. :-+ [EDIT: Changing the gain to a sensible value restores the sensible trace, confirmed]
I'm not sure how it has happened, or maybe worked its way across versions that I thought were ok. The V1.0.28 and V1.0.29 were fresh unpacks of the Owon Setup.exe's, but it is clearly the reason for what I've been seeing!
Many thanks - my brain was so fogged that I needed a quick sleep. I didn't even think of checking that the cal data was sensible.
P.S. I am wondering if the factory default cals maybe get stored in Flash in the ARM processor in each unit, that might possibly explain a 'cross contamination'. Maybe autoset has a fine tuning effect based on those settings, I don't know though.
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Follow-up:
I think we maybe don't fully understand how calibration settings work. Once I changed the Ch1 5mV settings and saved - right most button, it is also works with Alain's and your versions, even after unplugging and changing USB ports! [EDIT: and previous Owon versions too]
Strangely the florentbr version still shown incorrect Ch1 5mV. :-\
A few tentative conclusions:
- The calibration data is stored in some non-volatile place. This could either be in Flash on the unit (which seems likely to me as Owon would want to do a basic cal on each unit during test), or some global (registry?) setting on the system. From the registry dump that you did yesterday, I don't see that this is possible.
- Assuming the above is correct, the florentbr version is not interrogating the unit to get factory setting and is maybe holding them somewhere else?
- Owon V1.0.29 - V1.0.30 are handling calibration data in a different way to previous versions ? ??
Still a little confused about the above thoughts.
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Strangely the florentbr version still shown incorrect Ch1 5mV. :-\
- Assuming the above is correct, the florentbr version is not interrogating the unit to get factory setting and is maybe holding them somewhere else?
Gyro, Is it possible that the explanations in the readme.md file from the florentbr can make a hint?
* moved calibration to user folder
* moved settings to user folder
* moved preferences to user folder
It would be very useful to understand correctly the purpose of the process of maintaining calibration settings.
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@Gyro
If it helps you, I attach my original file Flashmemory.txt
https://ufile.io/2lajynvg
I think that if the flashmemory.txt file does not exist in the flash_txt folder, the VDS1022 must launch an "auto_self_cal" on startup.
or in Utility, you can launch a "Self Cal"
Alain
-
@Gyro
If it helps you, I attach my original file Flashmemory.txt
https://ufile.io/2lajynvg
I think that if the flashmemory.txt file does not exist in the flash_txt folder, the VDS1022 must launch an "auto_self_cal" on startup.
Alain
Thanks Alain. I've downloaded the file, but suspect that it is related to your specific unit (hint, keep a backup of it). I was able to use the gain value I saw in V1.0.29 to set it for the other versions.
Strangely the florentbr version still shown incorrect Ch1 5mV. :-\
- Assuming the above is correct, the florentbr version is not interrogating the unit to get factory setting and is maybe holding them somewhere else?
Gyro, Is it possible that the explanations in the readme.md file from the florentbr can make a hint?
* moved calibration to user folder
* moved settings to user folder
* moved preferences to user folder
It would be very useful to understand correctly the purpose of the process of maintaining calibration settings.
Interesting, yes there do seem to be multiple files involved in the calibration data. As I mentioned back in Reply #468, I have previously seen some new and unexpected zero offsets that I hadn't seen before. Looking at file dates, it was apparent that both '\flash_text\flashmemory.txt' and '\configuration\com.owon.uppersoft.dso\pref.properties' appeared to be involved, I needed to copy both of those from my previous version to get the offsets looking normal again (they could of course also be trimmed in the cal menu).
From Alain's translation of the calibration screen, it is clear that there are buttons to save to flashmemory.txt only, or write to the device (scope) and Factory settings. What doesn't seem clear is if/when the flashmemory.txt and device data get exchanged or overwritten.
Without fully understanding this I suspect that there may be a danger of accidentally 'infecting' each other with our own scope calibrations! :D
P.S. Sorry to you both for your time taken in searching for a non-existent bug!
-
in Utility, you can launch a "Self Cal"
-
Yes, I know (there is the centre 'Calibration' button for it in the calibration screen too, that does the same thing). From my experience with the zero offsets that I mentioned earlier though, it doesn't seem to do a full accurate cal - I think it is based on the saved factory parameters (I tried both self-cal and factory reset). The zero line result isn't optimal afterwards anyway.
It's not a big issue to calibrate it anyway (Indman did it) - it's only an 8 bit scope (like most) so it's never going to have DMM type accuracy. Even on the highest range, it's only 5V/div (X1) so no high voltages are needed. I'm still a little confused about the difference between 'Zero Amplitude' and 'Zero Compensation' they seem to have the same effect but one is maybe ADC zero and the other input opamps offset for best linearity. I need to have a play.
-
To help a little, I tried to follow the actions of "Gain", "Amplitude" and "Compensation" but without success.
What I learned is that "zeroamplitude" in the program changes its name and is called "Step" (as in flashmemory.txt.
If it can be useful
-
Thanks Alain, yes "step" sounds useful. It could be that Zero Amplitude, in conjunction with Coarse Gain can be used to optimize the ADC scaling (eg. as close to 1 bit per mV as possible) and the Zero Compensation is then used to bring the line to zero.
We'll learn all there is to know one day! :)
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By analyzing the diagrams of the circuits (analog side),
there are few possibilities of programming of these circuits,
I see only the 2 reference voltages of the AD9288 and the gain and the offset on the 2 AD603.
I think it corresponds to our 3 programmable voltages.
-
Good first interpretation.
Looking at my unit, the AD9288 RREFinA and REFinB are tied to REFout (pins 5,7,6), that makes sense as it's the most accurate reference source available.
With those two references fixed, I think that all three programmable values relate to the two AD603s. Checking around the AD603s, Pin 2 (GNEG - negative voltage increases gain) on both channels are linked together and decoupled to ground - these must be connected to a bias network somewhere (I didn't fully trace it out) and so I don't think they are involved in calibrations (there is no common cal setting for both channels).
Pin 1 (GPOS - positive voltage increases gain) of each AD603 is connect to an RC network, which in turn is fed by one half of an SGM8292 dual high voltage rail to rail opamp, on my unit, on the back of the board, near the ARM CPU. These form gain networks which are then driven by PB0.5 and PB0.7 port pins on the CPU. I Suspect that these are controlling the AD603 gain pin levels using PWM (the alternate functions listed on PB0.5 and .7 list ADC but not DAC).
I think this brings us back to the Firmware controlling gain and, zero and offset via those two pins, doing the appropriate compensations in code. Coarse Gain is fairly self-evident. I suspect that Zero Amplitude and Zero Compensation work together, to give both zero, and equal measurements / deflection for equal positive and negative voltages.
That's my best guess anyway.
(My earlier thoughts about Zero Compensation compensating opamp offsets is probably wrong - they would only be relevant at low signal levels (Zero Compensation exists on all ranges) and would be automatically included anyway in the the Zero adjustments provided).
Other interpretations very welcome!
P.S. I noticed in the AD9288 datasheet that a 10 bit pin compatible upgrade is available. That could be fun if we had full control of the Firmware and FPGA code. :) Alas...
-
I will analyze your deduction, in this area you are much faster than me, I started to make the schema on paper around the AD603.
I made a discovery, the circuit "8061" (AD8061 / 8063) can isolate each channel by pin 5.
FPGA is just a logical matrix, but to decode it is another story.
-
For me, it is the outputs of the 2 DAC (IDAC0 / IDAC1) that go to SGM8272, respectively PB0.10 pin 47 and PB0.11 pin 48 of the 64 Pin TQFP SIM3U1xx .
-
:palm: Doh, yes, of course, you're right - I was looking at the 80QFN datasheet footprint, I was too busy balancing the board vertically while probing both sides! Yes, IDAC0/1 it is then. It makes a lot more more sense than PWM.
I have to take the screws out again later to check the AD8061s. According to my old photo they are indeed marked 8061 and according to the datasheet, only the 8063 has the disable pin.
I am still wondering the about the 'mechanics' of the 'Self Cal' operation. Whether it is an offset cancellation (I think what Tek call 'signal path compensation') or whether it is gain too. I suspect that some of the secrets are hidden under the shield.
-
But you too are right because there is a second SGM8272 underneath and he is attacked by logical outputs.
I just changed the image above.
it is good 8061 but surely a manufacturer with the box of 8063
-
Ah, good - it's always nice to be a little bit right.
The AD8061s are definitely 8061 on my board revision - SOT23-5 pin package, not SOT23-6 (8063), so lacking enable.
I'd never paid any attention to the SGM8272 on the top side, from its position I think I assumed that it was PSU related. Following the outputs leads me to the two LMH6551 differential output opamps which are the stages between the AD603s and the AD9288 ADC. On my board they go to a large tacked-on Tantalum decoupling capacitor before going to the bias network on the LMH6551 Pin 1 (input -). This looks to be in non-inverting configuration, so it must be an offset adjustment for the LMH6551. [EDIT: Vcm (common mode input) of the LMH6551s are driven from the ADC Vref Out, as Fig. 33 in the datasheet (Driving an ADC)]
I suppose this makes sense because by the time the signal has reached the LMH6551 it has already been scaled to a fixed range by the AD603, input attenuator relays etc. so will work as a range independent offset adjustment going into the ADC (but still adjustable on a range by range basis).
Ok, so now we have the Coarse gain adjustment (PWM?) driven into the AD603s from PB0.0 / PB0.2 via the bottom SGM and offset adjustment at the LMH6551s driven from PB0.10 / PB0.11 (10 bit IDAC?) via the top SGM. It's making sense.
EDIT: The picture of my board revision (from Reply #12), showing the tacked-on Tants...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/?action=dlattach;attach=168295;image)
P.S. I suspect that your board doesn't have the U29 footprint - an interesting evolutionary relic!
-
One more thought... The s/w will normally expect the ADC exactly half scale code to be Analogue zero. I wonder if a change in what it expects here could be regarded as a 'Zero Amplitude' adjustment?
EDIT: No, too many digits. I was forgetting it's only 8 bits.
-
Just a small precision before attacking the day, the DACs are 10 bits current output (0.5, 1, 2 ma) .
The circuits marked "YJAA" are SGM2019A.
-
Yes, lots of nice local regulation on the analogue supplies.
I've just been doing some quick measurements and found that both Zero Amplitude and Zero Compensation affect the IDAC outputs to the LMH6551s. I was hoping that it would be just one or the other.
As expected, the Coarse Gain adjustment changes the GPOS gain adjustment pins of the AD603s.
P.S. I still wonder how it performs the Self-Cal. Watching the screen, it seems to adjust the zero positions of both traces at the centre of the screen, and then do the same again at some positive displacement on the screen. It could be that somewhere (under the screening can?) it switches in a positive reference, tapped of an analogue supply so that it can determine what offsets there are in the system.
Alternatively, it might be offsetting by changing the Zero Amplitude setting and then optimising the Zero Offset setting at two positions. I'm not sure why it would do this (apart from maybe optimising ADC linearity?). With a 10 bit IDAC it should be possible to set the zero offset of an 8 bit ADC quite closely.
I can't see any way of Self-Cal setting the Coarse Gain. It would either need a separate reference or feed back of the ADC ref. I think this is a manual cal only.
-
You have a separate reference in SIM3U156 :
PB0.8 pin 49 VREFGROUND
PB0.9 pin 48 VREF
-
As far as I can see, the SIM3U156 VREF is used as a common mode reference node for the top side SGM8292, which is effectively being used as an I/V converter for the offset adjustments.
They've been careful to take the SGM8292 supply rails from the analogue regulators at the front of the board.
Actually, they may well be using the SIM3U156 VREF indirectly as a calibration source for the ADC... As it is the reference for the IDACs, they can feed a known offset voltage to the LMH6551s and read back the resulting ADC reading. That will allow closed loop calibration of the ADC (and LMH6551 offsets).
I can't see how they can go past that though (to the AD603 gain calibrations) other than to null their offsets by assuming 0V inputs (probes disconnected). There are relay clicks during self-cal, I don't know how many relays there are under the shield, but there must be at least two per channel, one for AC/DC coupling and one for the higher voltage ranges, maybe there's another shorting one.
-
I think it's the same model (NEC) as in the 4 channels.
-
Ah, only one per channel on that one, presumably AC/DC coupling. It's not the same circuit as the VDS1022 though - it's missing the trimmer caps near the rear of the shields.
At some point, curiosity is going to persuade me to desolder the shield but I'm trying to resist!
-
Surely this model double coils latch.
-
Yes, it is a double pole changeover (DPDT), the two contacts are mechanically linked. It uses two coils (bistable) so is stable in both states. It minimises current draw and power dissipation. A good thing to do when USB powered.
-
My contribution to enlighten this subject
-
I noticed another problem in the mathematical channel that is present in all versions of the shell, including 1.0.30. The selected range value (for example,5V) is not saved when the program is reloaded. There is also no preservation of this meaning if you remove the bird from the function of mathematics and put it again.
Can you confirm or deny this problem?
-
My contribution to enlighten this subject
Nice reverse engineering, thanks. :-+
I'm away from my unit for a few days.
-
Hello,
I bought a VDS3102 that I haven't received yet.
Do you know if the software is the same between the 1022 and the 3102 ?
I can't download the software from Owon, I don't know why.
It seems that most of their links are dead.
It is nice to be able to change the channel color. I will look more deeply when I received to scope.
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I'm not sure why you're having trouble downloading the s/w, it's on their support page (I just tried it) ... https://www.owon.com.hk/support_PC_Software_list3 (https://www.owon.com.hk/support_PC_Software_list3)
The best bet is normally to install the version that comes on the CD and then check if the site version is a later Rev.
No, the s/w is different between the two (although I'm sure they are closely related) - you can normally delve deeper by unzipping the installer exe file.
P.S. You can find the user manual in the support pages too.
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A small gift for the Christmas holidays
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Hey Camomille, that's very useful - thank you! :-+
It's the sort of thing I kept meaning to do, wished I had, but never got around to! I wondered how they implemented things like the multi Input/output.
Now to work out why my earlier version PCB uses a switcher for the -2.5V rather than an LM337 - they must have had some reason for changing it.
I will try to get around to lifting the shield and taking some photos sometime over Christmas.
-
It seems that I tried only when the links were dead :palm:
It is working great now, thank you :)
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Hello Chris
It is between diagram and synoptics to understand the operation, I deliberately forgot the decoupling capacitors.
What I find interesting is the hc595 which serves as a serial / parallel interface between the cpu and the inputs (6 lines).
One might think that one of these lines isolates the inputs and authorizes a reference voltage for the auto calibration.
I also highlighted the FPGA series programming.
My model does not have circuits with a red cross.
Alain
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It seems that I tried only when the links were dead :palm:
It is working great now, thank you :)
Glad to hear it. :)
Thinking overnight, there may not actually be many differences between the VDS1022 s/w and the 3102. After all, they both have the same user interface. Irrc, the 3102 uses USB2 High speed rather than full speed (the reason it doesn't have a galvanic isolation option) so there will be differences in the device driver etc, and of course the FPGA firmware file will be different.
You may want to download the latest VDS1022 and the latest VDS1032 s/w, unzip the installer exe files to two separate folder trees (7zip works) and look for commonalities.
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Hello Chris
It is between diagram and synoptics to understand the operation, I deliberately forgot the decoupling capacitors.
What I find interesting is the hc595 which serves as a serial / parallel interface between the cpu and the inputs (6 lines).
One might think that one of these lines isolates the inputs and authorizes a reference voltage for the auto calibration.
I also highlighted the FPGA series programming.
My model does not have circuits with a red cross.
Alain
Hi Alain,
It's fine - just what is needed to know what is going on. :-+ It's useful to know which regulator is powering what. I had worked out that the Probe cal output was driven directly from 5V USB - it is a useful indication of excessive voltage drop on the cable before any other functionality is affected.
Mine still has the BA7046 sync separator, yes it's probable that they've moved the functionality into the FPGA, it's a less used function these days anyway.
Regarding the HC595 outputs - it will be interesting to know what is happening under the shield. I think we can be sure this splits down to 3 control lines per channel, I doubt there is any binary decode going on under the shield, so I think they will be switching 3 discrete items. One will clearly be the AC/DC coupling relay. I wouldn't be surprised if another one is switching an attenuator for the higher voltage ranges. As for the third, yes maybe a reference select, or maybe another attenuator? I will try to find out.
Chris
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BA7046 is only NTSC.
small precision, no power goes under the shield, just the ground.
My opinion :
the 6 wires must directly attack 2 bistable relays per channel (AC / DC / GND) and (1V / 0.1V / 0.01V).
It is only a suggestion.
Alain
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small precision, no power goes under the shield, just the ground.
Ah, that's interesting, I was thinking there might be another gain stage in there for low ranges. Also clamping to the rails.
P.S. I don't think the GND position is needed on the input coupling relay - the S/W takes the trace to a flat line when GND is selected.
Chris
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Hi guys!
Thank you for your work. I installed the package on a Raspberry pi 4. It works!!
Here is my instruction :
( It certainly looks like dancing with a tambourine. :rant: But the Java code gives me the fear, pain and hatred. I hope that in the future it will be corrected by knowledgeable people. )
I installed on a clean system downloaded from the original site "Raspbian Buster with desktop".
First, the standard:
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade
Then install Java and the necessary libraries:
sudo apt-get install openjdk-8-jre
sudo apt-get install libusb-1.0-0-dev
sudo apt-get install libusb-dev
sudo apt-get install libusb-java-lib
sudo apt-get install librxtx-java
Install OWON software on two options to choose from:
1)
git clone https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022.git2)
wget https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/archive/master.zip
unzip /home/pi/master.zip
cd /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master (If you used Git the folder will be OWON-VDS1022 , but I used Wget)
Now we knock on the tambourines:
mkdir lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libusb.so /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf/
cp /usr/lib/libusbJava.so.0.8 OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/libusb.so /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/jni/librxtxSerial-2.2pre1.so /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
Edit the installation script in two places:
nano /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh
main () {
local arch
case "$(uname -m)" in
x86_64|amd64) arch=x86_64 ;;
i?86) arch=i386 ;;
arm*) arch=armhf ;; #!!!!!!!!!!!!
*) raise "Architecture not supported: $(uname -m)" ;;
esac
build-deb () {
local arch=$1
# PK_ARCH=${arch/x86_64/amd64}
PK_ARCH=$arch #!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Save and exit
Ctrl-X
Next, change the attribute and run:
sudo chmod +x /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh
sudo /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh
After installation we make symbolic links:
cd /usr/lib/owon-vds-tiny
sudo ln -s librxtxSerial-2.2pre1.so librxtxSerial.so
sudo ln -s libusbJava.so.0.8 libusbJava.so
Everything is ready now you can run
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Hi all,
Before this new year, I decided to open the sardine box (shield).
in 2020 the complete scheme.
I wish everyone a happy New Year.
Alain :-+ :-+ :-+
-
Damn, you beat me to it - I was going to make it a New Year present to you!
From an initial look, U2 and U43, the LETEX L1210 parts appear to be opto relays for the AC/DC coupling switch, something like PhotoMOS. These bypass the AC input coupling capacitors, C48 and C20. The 330R resistors, R4 and R97 look right for driving an internal LED.
The relays then must be for switching a high level resistive||capacitive attenuator for the higher volts/div ranges, with capacitive compensation being adjustable by the two trimmer caps.
I can't find any web reference for either LETEX or LETEX L1210, so it is a part that it would be best not to blow up!
Thanks for doing this Alain, and a Happy New Year to you. :-+
Chris
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Hi guys!
Thank you for your work. I installed the package on a Raspberry pi 4. It works!!
Here is my instruction :
( It certainly looks like dancing with a tambourine. :rant: But the Java code gives me the fear, pain and hatred. I hope that in the future it will be corrected by knowledgeable people. )
I installed on a clean system downloaded from the original site "Raspbian Buster with desktop".
First, the standard:
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade
Then install Java and the necessary libraries:
sudo apt-get install openjdk-8-jre
sudo apt-get install libusb-1.0-0-dev
sudo apt-get install libusb-dev
sudo apt-get install libusb-java-lib
sudo apt-get install librxtx-java
Install OWON software on two options to choose from:
1)
git clone https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022.git2)
wget https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/archive/master.zip
unzip /home/pi/master.zip
cd /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master (If you used Git the folder will be OWON-VDS1022 , but I used Wget)
Now we knock on the tambourines:
mkdir lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libusb.so /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf/
cp /usr/lib/libusbJava.so.0.8 OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/libusb.so /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
cp /usr/lib/jni/librxtxSerial-2.2pre1.so /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/lib/linux/armhf
Edit the installation script in two places:
nano /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh
main () {
local arch
case "$(uname -m)" in
x86_64|amd64) arch=x86_64 ;;
i?86) arch=i386 ;;
arm*) arch=armhf ;; #!!!!!!!!!!!!
*) raise "Architecture not supported: $(uname -m)" ;;
esac
build-deb () {
local arch=$1
# PK_ARCH=${arch/x86_64/amd64}
PK_ARCH=$arch #!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Save and exit
Ctrl-X
Next, change the attribute and run:
sudo chmod +x /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh
sudo /home/pi/OWON-VDS1022-master/install-linux.sh
After installation we make symbolic links:
cd /usr/lib/owon-vds-tiny
sudo ln -s librxtxSerial-2.2pre1.so librxtxSerial.so
sudo ln -s libusbJava.so.0.8 libusbJava.so
Everything is ready now you can run
Hi Mikle_JV,
Welcome to the forum. :)
Excellent work, I know that several people have ambitions for turning the scope into a truly portable device, and the Pi seems the best platform for doing this. Thanks for detailing so fully! :-+
Chris
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Hello Chris,
It is not LETEX L1210 but LT210 (Photo DMOS-FET Relay) and it is good to use for short circuit the AC / DC input capacitor.
search LT210.pdf
The NEXEM UD2 5SNU double inverter bistable relay simply switches a divider by 25 used in the 5/2/1 / 0.5 Volts positions.
Alain
-
Ah, that makes more sense, thanks, got it (I had too many disturbing latex hits before :-[)! It looks man enough for the job and decent isolation. Here's the link for anyone else interested... http://www.letex.com.tw/dow.php?type=pdf&file=.%2Fupload%2Fproduct%2FLT210%2Ffile1.pdf&serial=LT210 (http://www.letex.com.tw/dow.php?type=pdf&file=.%2Fupload%2Fproduct%2FLT210%2Ffile1.pdf&serial=LT210)
Divide by 25 then - you're ahead of me again!
Thanks,
Chris
P.S. The single coil bistable relay explains why there are 3 control lines (total) going to each channel.
-
I discovered the division by 25 while having fun making this document.
I am waiting for the components to realize a full scale voltage tester 50v to 500mV and finalized.
-
Wow, impressive! :o
-
Good morning all
I wish everyone a happy new year.
As promised, here is my latest version of the diagram.
Alain
-
A happy New Year to all.
Thanks very much Alain, an excellent piece of work! Filed :-+
Chris
-
Hello,
It seems that we can add the step 2 mV / div.
The modification consists in desoldering the pin 5 AD603 of the printed circuit and soldering a resistance of ~ 5K1 between this isolated pin and the pin 7 to modify the gain of the AD603 which will pass from 31.07dB to 45.05dB(it is provided in the datasheet).
This modification will force you to recalibrate (maybe only the flashmemory.txt file).
I will be testing in the coming weeks to confirm this theory.
-
Hello,
florentbr has released a new version which corrects all requests:
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022
But I'm a quiche because I can't install it to test it, do you have any advice ? |O |O
under W10 no installation possible, under W7 installs without problem, but no launch possible
Alain
-
under W10 just decompress directly on the desktop and not in a folder.
-
Hello,
florentbr has released a new version which corrects all requests:
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022)
But I'm a quiche because I can't install it to test it, do you have any advice ? |O |O
under W10 no installation possible, under W7 installs without problem, but no launch possible
Alain
Hi Alain,
I haven't tried florentbr's latest version but I had similar problems to you with what I assume was the previous one. indman's answer worked for me. I don't know if this is the same situation though.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg2810072/#msg2810072 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg2810072/#msg2810072)
Chris
-
Hello Chris,
I succeeded under W10, but under W7 impossible, despite your advice and that of Indman that I had read again, but it is less important.
Alain
-
Hi!
Florentbr has once again done a great job of improving the functionality of the program! I got the impression he was reading the topic. :)
I easily installed his latest version of cf9 on my computer with Windows7x64. But to do this, you must meet one condition - to install a specific JAVA8 package. I downloaded it at https://adoptopenjdk.net/ - OpenJDK8U -jdk _ x64 _ windows _ hotspot _ 8u242b08. After installing this package, the install-win.cmd script worked very quickly and without errors.
-
Hi!
Florentbr has once again done a great job of improving the functionality of the program! I got the impression he was reading the topic. :)
He must be - he's pinched a couple of my menu button icons! :P (Not that I mind).
I just installed it too, no problems using OpenJDK8U on W7 64pro. It looks very nice at first try!
-
I've had some time to play with Florentbr's s/w version. It seems very good.
The flexibility of colour choice is nice - the FFT trace and cursors too (the pink cursor measurement text always was a pain to see). A couple of points...
- It would be nice if the windows install script gave a choice of install location. I keep all my system stuff on an SSD C drive and most applications on the D drive. I tried hacking the script but ended up with it creating a second D:\Program files folder. That's just my total incompetence though.
- I've always questioned in my mind, the reason for having a 'Restore Factory Defaults' button on the main screen. It seems unnecessary. On Florentbr's version, this button also resets all of your carefully chosen colours! :palm: It would be nice just to loose the button, or replace it with something more useful - although I can't think what at the moment. The function is available in the Utility menu for the very rare cases where it might be needed.
- It would of course be nice if it had Alain's proposed 2mV/div range. :D
-
Hi all,
sorry for my absence from the forum, but I had a cut in the fiber network for 2 weeks. :--
Thanks to indman for the link, which allowed me to install the cf9 version on W7 and W10 without problem (the cf7 version had problems closing selectors). :-+
I advance on my calibrator, I still lack 1 resistance value for the 2mV/Div (20mV full scale) caliber and with Chinese problems I don't know when I will have it ? :-//
Alain
-
Thanks for the update Alain. You don't realize how much you rely on broadband until it breaks!
Chris
P.S. Florent's calibration comments shed light on the difference between the Zero Compensation and Zero Amplitude. One is for zeroing at mid point and the other to maintain zero tracking when the trace is moved vertically on the screen (makes sense). What doesn't make sense is why my CH2 isn't perfectly optimized by Autocal.
-
Hi Chris,
My goal is to better understand the action on the amplitude of the COARSEGAIN values (pwm to dc U26) and to know if we can improve the slope.
My idea is that thanks to my calibrator I can check the voltage at the output of the AD603 in full scale and on all games it must be fixed at 1.7V (2.048 / 12 * 10).
The STEP and ZERO voltage offsets are less important to me because the dac in SIM3U156 has great precision (not like rc of U26)
All this for fun.
Alain
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I finished my full scale voltage calibrator for oscilloscope
Available voltages: 50/20/10/5/2/1 / 0.5 / 0.2 / 0.1 / 0.05 / 0.02 Volts
accuracy <1%
All for less than $ 4
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Nice job. :-+
Looking forward to seeing whether you can get useable accuracy and noise level at 2mV/div.
Chris
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Hopefully this does not seem like I am trying to hyjack this thread. This is a continuation of my thread on the main testgear forum. Basically I have been trying to use single triggering on an OWON VDS 1022 DSO to test a quadrature encoder. Quick summary is that I loaded Florentbr's replacement SW from git hub and all my troubles disappeared. Single triggering now works exactly as it should. My issue with both quadrature channels rising at the same time persists. Also, if I turn the encoder backward, both channels fall at the same time followed by B rising followed by A rising.
In the triggering menu there is a combo box that lets you set a delay time from a few ns up to seconds. Can anybody explain what this is and how you would use it?
Brian
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That's really good news Brian. I am away from home at the moment so I am only able to play with the florentbr sans scope but clearly from your results, there is a significant improvement in single trigger.
With regard to the trigger holdoff. This is normally used in repetitive triggering situations (Auto or Normal - I can't think of single trigger use case) to prevent the scope from triggering again within a certain period of time. This is helpful in obtaining a stable trace on 'awkward' signals where there is another transition that could also cause triggering, causing the visible display to 'jitter' between the two resulting views. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope#Holdoff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscilloscope#Holdoff) should give you a fuller explanation. The better analog scopes used to have it too.
I'm not sure about your encoder results, it's beginning to sound like a physical anomaly of the encoder itself, though it's difficult to see how the same thing could happen in both directions. Are you sure you have the pinout correct? - I'm just trying to imagine what it would look like if you had one of the outputs accidentally grounded instead of the wiper. Maybe you can post a datasheet link.
Chris
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I believe you might be onto something here! I whipped up a quick arduino sketch to just poll as quickly as possible and record the states and times and sure enough, the sketch showed exactly what the scope was showing. When I worked out the pin out I just used an ohm meter and did a continuity check looking for the common lead but with 5 seconds more thought I think you are correct and that was too simplistic a test. At some point, A is probably feeding through ground to B and my test was probably fatally flawed. They are just cheap Chinese encoders so I am not sure a data sheet is available but I will have a closer look. Thanks again.
Brian
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Bingo! Sure enough, I was not using the correct pin out (I did warn you it was probably a stupid mistake on my part). There is no part number on the encoder but trial and error switching pins did come up with a combination that works properly. The only bright side is I now know much more about the scope. Thanks again for you help and patience.
Brian
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Glad you got it sorted Brian. :-+
Anonymous encoder pinouts aren't the easiest thing to decode - at least we know what it looks like if you mistake an output for the wiper now. I tried to work it out in my head but didn't get past the 'everything will go off (high) at some point. Glad I could help anyway.
Chris
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Hello! I found a new driver libusb-win32-bin v1.2.7.1 (09/18/2019)
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Hi everyone. I joined this forum just to say a big thankyou to everyone who's contributed to this thread. I've read the whole thing (and now my head is spinning a bit) and it helped to cement my decision to get a VDS1022I. The fact that there is such an active community supporting the product and continuing to improve the software for it played a big part in that decision.
I do have one newbie question that I don't think has been answered in this thread so far. I've noticed that there are a few clones of the VDS out there now, that look identical in every way but lack the Owon logo on the case. I've ordered what should be a legitimate Owon just to be on the safe side. But it's got me thinking that I should at least check that I've been sent the Isolated version that I ordered, rather than just trusting the silkscreening on the case. To do so (without opening it), would I be correct in thinking that I just need to check with a meter that there isn't a dead short / low resistance between the outer part of the BNCs (or the ground clip of a probe connected to them) and any of the pins of the USB socket?
Thanks.
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Hi Ben, welcome to the forum.
It is nice, particularly more recently, that the community has picked up from purely H/W analysis, to S/W enhancements too, Linux versions etc.
A good question, no I don't think it has been asked specifically before. Yes, a simple continuity test between the probe ground clips (or the ground tab adjacent to the cal output) and the USB connector (shell and ground contact) will be sufficient to confirm that it is an Isolated version. If you want a bit more certainty, you could add a few more volts, say, a 9V battery in series, but as the idea of the galvanic isolation is to break ground loops, rather than the dodgy practice of floating the scope at high voltages, there is no need to worry. The isolation components are rated for several hundred volts, so there's no risk involved in a simple continuity test.
As far as I can tell, they VDS1022 hasn't been "cloned" as such. There is a PeakTek re-brand that came up a few pages back, but it's the same H/W from the same OEM (still Owon AAFIK).
Chris.
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Thanks Gyro. I received my scope today, it's definitely the isolated version and I've got it working great on my ancient Macbook Pro using the florentbr Github repo, with just the minor change to the installer as per this issue (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/4).
I read in the online manual (http://www.agesys.ro/pdf/VDS_Series_User_Manual.pdf) that:
When the attenuation switch is set to 1X, the probe will limit the bandwidth of the oscilloscope in 5MHz. To use the full bandwidth of the oscilloscope, the switch must be set to 10X.
I haven't seen this discussed before. It doesn't make any sense to me - surely all the switch does is reduce the voltage to a tenth of what it would have been (and, in software, multiply all the readings by ten). I don't see that the scope itself either knows or cares whether that attenuation is on, all it cares about is the voltage it sees. So why would it affect the bandwidth?
As for clones, I was just judging on the basis of listings like this one (https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASHATA-VDS1022I-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-default/dp/B07WZLPB39/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=vds1022i&qid=1581798081&sr=8-5), where you have what is obviously the same design in every respect but lacks the Owon logo. I guess they are still made by Owon but "white label" for reselling...
Cheers
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Hmm, I've never seen a 'white label' one. From the look of it, it's no cheaper than a genuine one, so I suspect that it is original H/W.
Glad you've got it working as advertised, and on a Macbook.
The scope probe X1 / X10 thing is common to all scopes and all switchable scope probes. Basically, in X1, the probe tip exhibits the full capacitance of the probe cable plus the input capacitance of the scope (probably about 100pF in total) and the scope 1M ohm input resistance. This limits the useable bandwidth of the probe to very low frequencies, certainly not above audio - depending on the source impedance.
In the X10 position, the probe is configured as a 10M Ohm high impedance voltage divider, 9M Ohms in the probe tip (plus a bit of capacitance) combined with the 1M ohm input resistance of the scope. The Input capacitance at the probe tip is reduced by approximately the same ratio (around 10-15pF), making it suitable for high frequency use with minimal circuit loading.
Do a forum search of variations of 'scope probe switchable, X1,X10' etc. and you will get loads of hits. It's a fairly common question.
The X1 position is pretty useless unless you need a bit of extra low frequency sensitivity, but you could just as easily use a BNC clip lead and get the same performance. It is best practice to keep the probes switched to X10 (there is a probe division menu in the scope s/w [EDIT: Channel Menu, Probe Rate] so that all the readings come out correctly), for the reason above, and to provide additional useful protection to the scope inputs. The switches tend to be a reliability liability too, I don't know why switchable probes are so common (you can get dedicated X10 probes... and X100 probes for high voltage or low loading use).
Don't forget to adjust the probe compensation trimmers to give a proper square wave on the X10 setting, using the scope Cal output, before using them in anger. That should be documented in the manual too.
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Very interesting, thanks Gyro. For voltages within the range that can be safely read by both 1X and 10X, I would have expected 1X to be the better choice. I clearly have a lot of learning to do! I did notice I got cleaner traces of the test signal in 10X than 1X.
I've done the probe compensation, thanks.
How close should the 5V test output be to 5V? It's reading as 4.800V on mine (Vamp). I also have a slight difference / DC offset of about 80mV between the two channels' readings, which repeated Auto Calibration runs haven't fixed (it's the channels that are reading differently, not the probes, as the same channel remains higher when the probes are swapped), so I'm wondering whether I need to go into that hidden menu to manually tweak it...
Edit: The difference between the channels appears to be differing amounts of noise, as it's still present when nothing is connected, and always reads roughly the same amount in percentage terms. i.e. if the display is set to 5V/div, it will read say 200-400mV of noise, whereas if it's set to 5mV/div, it will read 0.2-0.4mV.
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Glad it helped. :)
The 5V test output is derived from the USB supply (well at least the isolated DC-DC converter which isolates the USB on the VDS1022I). As such, it is not that well regulated and will vary a bit with USB port voltage, USB cable drop etc. That's not an issue in practice - it is intended purely as a nice clean square wave for probe compensation rather than a voltage calibration source. It does sound a little bit low though.
The auto calibration (as I understand it) uses mainly factory calibration settings which are stored in Flash memory in the unit for amplitude, and concentrates mostly on voltage zero and zero offset adjustments. Yes, you can use the hidden calibration menu to fine tune the settings (I found that I can improve slightly on the Autocal on my unit), and FlorentBR's description makes the differentiation between Zero amplitude and Zero offset settings clearer than we previously understood. You can use a PSU+DMM to calibrate the V/div settings (one time where using X1 probe setting is useful because the highest range becomes 5V/div rather than 50V/div).
Don't get too hung up on the noise measurement values changing as you change ranges - remember that, like most DSOs, the scope uses an 8 bit ADC (ie. 256 discrete levels full scale - negative max to positive max of the range), so will never be as DC accurate as an average DMM. When you change ranges, the significance of a couple of ADC bits changing is scaled accordingly in the readout. ie. you see the same couple of bits interpreted as 0.4mV on the lowest range and 400mV on the highest.
For absolute voltage accuracy, a DMM will always be superior, but for seeing what a signal actually looks like, you can't beat the scope.
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For absolute voltage accuracy, a DMM will always be superior
You haven't seen my DMM ;)
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I'm willing to bet that it has more than 8 bit resolution though. :)
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Hello again. I am still enjoying my Owon 1022, but seem to have a "problem" with the TTL external input for triggering.
I can't get it to work - don't know if it's my ineptness or something else.
Has anyone here tried using the EXT as a trigger? Any ideas?
My input signal is a square wave 32us wide and goes from 0v to +9.6v and back down again.
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A quick thought - have you been into the Utility menu and set the 'Multi' to Trigger In? I think it defaults to trigger out.
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Hi guys.
Thanks for tones of info i could find in this topic. It answered a lot of my questions and i'm almost convinced to buy the 1022i.
I would appreciate more customizable skin and trace color, to look better like the real oscilloscopes.
That's why i also find interesting the Loto OSCA02, but there isn't any info about it. This means isn't worth the money?
Price is 20$ more than the Owon.
[attachimg=1]
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That's a new one, I haven't seen it before. As you say, there doesn't seem to be much info around. I found a youtube video on it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9sUpl1PCDA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9sUpl1PCDA)
...which indicates that it 100Msps like the Owon (don't know if that's per channel or shared). It adds basic 6 bit logic analyser / GPIO capability, data logging (which could be useful), and a 48k buffer (Owon is 5k). Basic edge triggering only. I don't think it has galvanic isolation though, but I was skipping through the video a bit.
He is raving about the UI in the video, comparing it with the Hantek 6022, I don't think he mentioned the Owon at all. I'm not a fan of on-screen virtual knobs, but that's a personal preference thing. It looks fairly understandable though. He seems to think that FFT and Autoset button are unique features? Huh? Something screwy seems to happen when he switches from sinewave to squarewave at 1MHz too (15:48), he has to wind down his generator frequency to get it to display. I'm not sure what the flashing warning triangle is about?
I'd be interested to see a teardown to see how much it's doing on board and how much in the PC - it must be doing something because it mentions the 48k buffer, whereas Hantek claims 1MB, but that's just the arbitrary size of the buffer in the PC that it streams data into in realtime (so effectively the Hantek has none on the device).
It's probably worth you starting a new thread to discuss it so that replies on the different scopes don't get confused.
P.S. Here's a manufacturer video, looks quite good but you need some patience...
https://youtu.be/mUM9R6rnH90 (https://youtu.be/mUM9R6rnH90)
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Hello.
As i said, i already ordered the Owon VDS1022i.
Now i just want to install the florentbr's version software with customizable trace colour, to play with it and familiarize myself with the menus.
I follow exactly the indications in Readme file, but all i get is the next error and no app is installing.
## Install
Download and extract the following archive:
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/archive/master.zip
Right click on `install-win.cmd` and select "Run as administrator".
The script installs the drivers, copies the files, registers for uninstall and creates a menu entry.
Am i doing something wrong?
My OS is Windows7 64bit.
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I think you mean florentbr's s/w. :)
P.S. F:\ looks a bit strange unless you have lots of drives?
P.P.S. It may be because you don't have any hardware to attach yet. I'm not sure how I would go about manually installing a driver in device manager if the hardware wasn't already connected. I think it will also automatically pick up the driver from Camomille's installation when you plug it in.
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My Application Shortcut is:
%JAVA_HOME%\bin\javaw.exe -Djava.library.path="C:\Program Files\OwonVdsTiny\lib" -Duser.dir="%APPDATA%\OwonVdsTiny" -cp "C:\Program Files\OwonVdsTiny\jar\*" com.owon.vds.tiny.Main
(It should have been put as an entry in your start menu by the installer script)
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I was hoping that it had got that far before failing to install the driver. Sorry, I wouldn't have a clue where to start with remote access.
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cosmin1 Unzip,copy this file in folder OWON-VDS1022-master and run my modified install-win.cmd without installing the driver. Show me the black window after running this script.
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Oh yeaaaaaaaaaaaah!
That's what i'm talking about. :clap:
So the old install-win was bad.
Now everything's different. Thank you very much!
I suppose now i can uninstall the original 1.0.30, right?
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Nice wallpaper! :-+
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Thanks Gyro! ;D
One more question. Can't see anywhere the background colour setting. I lost it?
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That's one you're going to have to wait for (maybe), I don't know if florentbr is planning to make that customizable too at some point. Owon used to offer 2 skins (Black and Blue) which he has removed in favour of individual colour settings, but they were both black background for the screen.
The black background is pretty much standard for scopes DSOs (apart from old mono LCD Tek ones and Picoscope). I think it give best trace contrast anyway, especially by the time you have measurements, cursors, math channel etc. up at the same time.
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Oh... i see.
I thought i read somewhere about changeable background too, but maybe i'm wrong.
Thanks again.
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I suppose now i can uninstall the original 1.0.30, right?
I 'm glad you did well! :D
Uninstall the original version will also remove the USB driver from the system! So when you get your hardware Owon and plug it in, you 'll need to have those drivers in your system.
They can be installed separately if you save the USBDRV folder from the installed original 1.30 VDS_C2
I also suggest you delete your previous version installation messages from florentbr to avoid clogging unnecessary information with this topic. I will also delete my messages except one that contains a modified install-win.cmd.
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I shouldn't have deleted the earlier posts...
I received the oscilloscope, insalled the manufacturer software and working fine.
But now i'm trying to install the florentbr's s/w on other laptop and i get this message. Installed Java but still can't install the s/w.
What else can i do?
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Now everything's installed right but the launcher is nowhere to find. >:(
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Now everything's installed right but the launcher is nowhere to find. >:(
Try creating a shortcut with...
%JAVA_HOME%\bin\javaw.exe -Djava.library.path="C:\Program Files\OwonVdsTiny\lib" -Duser.dir="%APPDATA%\OwonVdsTiny" -cp "C:\Program Files\OwonVdsTiny\jar\*" com.owon.vds.tiny.Main
(It should already be in your start menu - it says it created it)
P.S. Please try not to get angry about it. It's not as if the florentbr s/w something you're paying for, you already have the working product software! :(
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I'm angry about my laptop, not about the software.
Will try to do that.
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Ah ok, it's perfectly normal to get annoyed at computers from time to time. :)
I'm interested to know if the shortcut worked - you ought to find the one on your other computer to be identical (I think).
The only I thing I remember from your previous deleted installation posts was that it was important not to rename anything (folders etc.), after that, my memory fails me.
P.S. Reply #573 still contains the zip file from Indman which seemed to sort you out last time.
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I use only install-win file from Indman.
After restart, the launcher shortcut appeared in Start menu.
But i can not change the colours. I set that blue colour but traces remain red/yellow.
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cosmin1
I explained everything to you in detail in my previous messages. You have a bad memory? Why do you need old useless messages that you and I have correctly deleted? You could simply copy an already installed shell from florentbr to a new computer. I see blue trace on your screenshot for X+Y mode. To select the color of individual trace, go to the Channels menu.
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You where right, but i just asked a decent question, no need to be rude.
I have many problems that i must take care of, and can't remember everything, especially since this is the first time i actually use this tool.
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XY capability is actually not bad :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06lgdxVHOlI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06lgdxVHOlI)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQn3-Byx3Sg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQn3-Byx3Sg)
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Hi,
I have the 1022i (isolated version) which supposed be 400V (peak to peak) according to spec (with probe set 1x I assume?). (I like that as I intend to check my tube amp.) However even when probing mains (230V), the wave goes off the chart (with top and bottom off the screen). I am not able to set more than 5V/div on the vertical scale and the auto measurements says "250V?" (the question mark being the sign it's of the scale, I am guessing). With 400V as max input, I would expect the software to allow me to set maybe 50V/div with 1x probe. What am I doing wrong?
Sorry for trivial question, it's my first scope. Thanks
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Welcome to the forum,
Firstly, Please stop probing the mains, it is not safe!
The VDS1022I provides Galvanic isolation of the USB interface, for protection of the attached PC from accidental ground loops. That does not make it safe for connection to the mains though. The metal case is connected to the probe ground clips, so it will be sitting at mains Neutral (or mains Live if you accidentally mistake the mains terminals!). Remember also that the two probe ground clips are connected to each other, as well as to the case.
With regard to the scaling. The scope is rated for 400V max with the probe on X10, so 40V max at X1. I know the spec is confusing, maybe they are trying to imply something about the USB isolation, but the input stages of the non-isolated and isolated versions are identical.
I know that many people look around for something to look at when they get their first scope, but please resist the temptation to pick the mains - many unfortunately do, and sometimes with disastrous results. If you want to look at the mains waveform, then use a small isolated step-down transformer, 24V for example.
The only safe way to scope mains voltage circuits is to use a high voltage differential probe.
P.S. Please watch the following video (Dave's How not to blow up your Oscilloscope):
https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ (https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ)
P.P.S. If you're going to be doing stuff on valve amps, it would definitely be worth purchasing a X100 probe, They are not expensive. Otherwise you will be pushing the voltage rating limits of normal X10 probes (the probes themselves).
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Hi Gyro, thank you for warm welcome and fast response!
With regard to the scaling. The scope is rated for 400V max with the probe on X10, so 40V max at X1. I know the spec is confusing, maybe they are trying to imply something about the USB isolation, but the input stages of the non-isolated and isolated versions are identical.
I suspected that may be the case after all and thanks for confirmation. The specs are indeed confusing, especilly 'cause they have 400V and 40V next to each other for all models in one table on their website, one would expect they'd use the same method/scale for specs ... (I was hoping it would go to 4000V with 10x probe according to specs sheet before purchase). But no problem, this and 100x probe hint answers my question. I didn't know probe itself is limited in voltage as it's passive ...
Secondly, I appreciate (no sarcasm) all the extra effort in security warnings which I imagine took 4x more time to answer. Being shocked at several occasions by mains as kid :phew:, I consider myself immune already :box: (just kidding, but only with the second part of this sentence).
FYI, since we are talking about safety, I have chosen to probe mains on purpose as I wanted to test some high voltage before going to even higher voltage that may appear in a tube amp eventually (well I admit I was curious about actual shape in my location while trying that too). I realize the difference is that circuit with tubes are typically behind transformer, mains are not. Anyways, I have been running USB scope connected to laptop powered by battery and controlled the software by wireless mouse during measurements. This is probably still not according to safety standards, but here I think usb scopes may have actually some edge over bench scopes in practical safety in my opinion (if made sure noone and nothing may touch the laptop+scope, also a wooden desk is better than metal :P). Am I right or missing something? (this is still not an advice for anyone).
(Tube amps, always discharge filter caps and always one hand in the pocket and think twice anytime before diving in ... they want to be respected)
Thank again and cheers
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You're welcome. :)
It's always difficult to know the level of knowledge (or even age) of a newcomer, so I always err on the side of caution.
A couple of other advantages of a X100 probe which I forgot to mention...
1. 100M input resistance (stray capacitance is also lower, but not as much as you might hope) which gives you more choice of the nodes you can probe without totally messing up the biasing, and
2. No pesky X1/X10 switch that can be almost guaranteed accidentally to slip into X1 at the worst possible moment!
P.S. Yes, the (passive) probe does have its own voltage rating as it is a combined resistive and capacitive divider to maintain frequency response. The voltage rating must also be de-rated at high (luckily not audio) frequencies for the same reason.
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Is it possible to replace dead SiM3U156 with a new one?
How it should be programmed?
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Hi everyone!
As per advice of user Gyro I'm looking to buy a VDS1022I, I just have one question, is anyone running, or ran just for the lols, the software on a Mac?
Be safe!
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Hi again deSales327,
I'm kicking myself! :palm: I'd completely forgotten that Florentbr's S/W version has a Mac (and Linux) install script in addition to Win. This is currently the best added functionality version of the Owon S/W... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022)
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I just noticed that Farnell {Edit: and Rapid] are selling the VDS1022/1022I / VDS2062 / VDS3102 under their own Multicomp Pro brand (eg. the VDS1022s are the MP720016 / MP720017). Price look similar to ebay until you remember that they do not include VAT, but that's understandable for a distributor.
Out of curiosity I downloaded the S/W. It proclaims itself to be V1.0.32.2 (the current shipping Owon version is V1.0.30). I couldn't see any visible differences when briefly running Launcher.exe, the OWON logo has been surgically removed from the title bar, but not replaced with anything, just leaving the little 'PC' icon on the title bar and taskbar icon. Owon references have been removed from the documentation too, but not replaced. This s/w does have a higher version number than the German PeakTech rebrand though. The FPGA code is still V3.7. I didn't bother going as far as plugging the scope H/W in.
The installer can be unzipped as usual to get at the Java files, but unfortunately they haven't been clumsy enough to leave in the sources, as they did on V1.0.23.
This is probably just a curiosity at this stage as the stock Owon s/w has been superseded by improved versions like Indman's V1.0.23 based and Florentbr's V1.0.30 based versions.
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Hi again deSales327,
I'm kicking myself! :palm: I'd completely forgotten that Florentbr's S/W version has a Mac (and Linux) install script in addition to Win. This is currently the best added functionality version of the Owon S/W... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022)
Just a note on installing the Florentbr software. I've just been remotely talking my son through installing the s/w and he ran into a problem with the s/w installing correctly (including creating the Start menu shortcut), but not being able to see the VDS1022 scope...
In the Dependencies section of the Florentbr github page it states "This software requires Java Runtime Environnement 8 or superior". The https://adoptopenjdk.net/ page currently defaults to OpenJDK 11 (LTS). Note that on a windows install (don't know about Linux and Mac), if you install this version, you will most likely have the same problem of the s/w not recognising the scope, even though it is visible in the Device manager.
You need to manually select and install the OpenJDK 8 (LTS) version in order to make the Florentbr S/W work correctly (tested by uninstalling version 11 and installing V8).
I hope this helps someone.
EDIT: Nice fast response and workaround from Florent... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/7 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/7) :-+
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@ Florentbr
@ Gyro
Thank you so much for your previous post about how to install Florentbr´s software. That did it for me!
I went to github a few months ago, got confused and felt like running round in circles online at oracle as well.
The software works beautifully, I love the design too. A color palette to chose from, YES ... and in case nobody has
noticed, the pesky black extra length under the saved scope picture is gone now! No more having to crop them ...
I wonder how many extras are still hidden in Florentbr´s software waiting to be discovered ...
A big cheers :-+ to you both and thank you again.
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Gosh, forgot ... I installed this on the old Acer netbook with windows7 32 bit.
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Hi, a new release has been released:
2020/06/10 (1.0.30-cf10)
added Italian translation (thanks to Marco Morelli)
changed channel 1 factory color from red to green
changed default factory coupling from AC to DC
changed retore button to restore the saved settings instead of the factory settings
fixed trigger pulse/slope input width
removed unsupported install USB driver menu
improved/fixed install scripts (issues 4, 7, 8 )
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022
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changed restore button to restore the saved settings instead of the factory settings
That one change is enough reason to update on its own! Owon putting a restore to Factory settings button on the main screen was a pain in the ass! Making it a 'restore to saved settings' makes it actually useful. :-+
P.S. You can tell from the file dates what needs to be updated - in this case, just the Readme, install scripts and the JAR folder. There's no need to do a full re-install.
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And also OpenJDK 11 (LTS) during installation - "fixed in release 1.0.30-cf10".
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/7
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Hi, a new release has been released:
2020/06/10 (1.0.30-cf10)
Once again, a big respect florentbr for the release of software updates. :-+
If he reads this topic, then I would like to point out a few more points in the interface that are striking and would like to fix.
Also, in the near future I will send him a corrected Russian language file for the shell because the original translation into Russian has many errors and inaccuracies. ;)
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much respect for florentbr too :clap:
and finally pulse/slope trigger works correctly.
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For those who want to see Russian tips in the new cf10 release from florentbr , as well as a corrected translation into Russian!
It is necessary to replace the owon-vds-tiny-1.0.30-cf10.jar file in the installed shell with a new one, which also contains my button icons and also icons from Gyro.
To display the tips in Russian, you need to unzip the tips.ru archive and replace the files at: Path to the installed shell \ OwonVdsTiny \ doc \ tips_en \
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Awesome!
I bought the VDS1022I after reading the whole thread. Today (after being on hold for a while) I got florentbr 1.0.30-cf10 up and running in no time on an old Macbook Pro. It didn't start first (jdk-11.0.1) so I tweaked install-mac.sh to select another JAVA_HOME (jdk1.8.0_192) and that worked. Thanks!
What do you use to decompile the java source code? I tried to make a git repository with the decompiled sources to see the diff from version to version and from different suppliers. I ran them through JD-GUI but it's not very consistent in variable naming, indentation etc which made the diffs rather noisy. It's always entertaining to see the software architecture (seen a number of these as a part my job working with test software a number of years ago) and the hacks made for adding a new product.
My aim is to get scripting and automation going (with or without GUI, with or without java, whatever makes the most sense, I don't know yet). If i'm in luck maybe even continuous sampling to laptop or RPi4 (making an awesome test station) memory will work. Do you know if this is feasible?
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Can someone give instructions how to test ATMEL/Arduino clocks (8/16Mhz) with this scope. Another thing I need it for is to check square/true sine wave of 230V AC inverter (if its even possible with 2x25MHz).
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Can someone give instructions how to test ATMEL/Arduino clocks (8/16Mhz) with this scope. Another thing I need it for is to check square/true sine wave of 230V AC inverter (if its even possible with 2x25MHz).
Hi,
Unless I'm misreading your questions, it sounds as if you are firstly looking for a decent basic primer on DSO usage. This thread (despite its title) has turned into a very useful one, covering pretty much all aspects of scope usage, with many experienced members contributing...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-an-oscilloscope-recommended-for-a-woman-passionate-about-electronics/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/what-an-oscilloscope-recommended-for-a-woman-passionate-about-electronics/)
Regarding your specific questions:
Testing Arduino clocks should be no difficulty. It's simply a matter of attaching the probe ground clip to the Arduino 0V rail and probing the appropriate signal. I suggest initially writing a simple script to toggle an I/O pin at a defined rate while becoming familiar with the controls. If you are talking about actually monitoring the crystal on the board, then you need to be more careful of loading effects - Ensure that the scope probe is set to X10 for minimum resistive and capacitive loading and probe the crystal directly. Set the probe attenuation (referred to as 'Probe rate') in the channel menu to X10 too so that voltage readings will come out correctly. You will find that one side of the crystal (the driven side) will have a larger and more stable waveform. You should be able to get a reasonable clock waveform with the scope's bandwidth.
With regard to the 230V inverter. Assuming that it is a small inverter, supplied from a low voltage DC source. You should have no problem - however 230V is quite high - You must ensure that the probe stays in the X10 position at all times (it's normal to avoid the X1 setting for general measurements anyway, so get into the habit). At X1, 230V will damage the scope input. Ensure that the probe ground clip is attached to the 0V side of the inverter output (the ground clips are connected to the metal case of the scope).
From your PM I think you have the VDS1022I galvanically isolated version (there is no 'L' variant - the LAN port is only available on higher spec models). This means that the USB interface (and so your PC) is protected from the effects of small voltages on the ground clips. This doesn't mean that you don't need to worry about where you connect the probe ground clip (as mentioned above, the scope case will follow the ground clip voltage, as will the ground clip on the other channel!).
Hopefully I have understood your description of the 230V AC inverter correctly. If it is something bigger and more high power and dangerous, or directly mains connected, then you need the appropriate too for the job (a high voltage differential probe). Don't be tempted to probe the mains directly.
If you don't want to worry about all of the settings at the moment (you do need to set the probe attenuation in the Channel menu manually), then the Autoset button actually works quite well to get you a stable waveform under most circumstance. You will want to become familiar with the settings as soon as possible though. All of the measurement functions can be found in the measurements menu.
Adopting the Florentbr version of the software ( https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022) ) will yield benefits too, but is not essential to first use of the scope.
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I am on it @Gyro but I will be back with more questions. I already got Florentbr's software working, no issues, relays are ticking nicely. Do I really need to use suplied screwdriver to "align" probes because it looks fine to me.
I will forget about hacks to check on mains voltage as I will get some propper table scope + probes you suggested :bullshit:, only if I learn to use DSO without blowing myself up ofc (GW Instek MDO 2204EX on 20% discount, I need that spectrum analyzer more than a scope).
PS No one talked about it here: do we really need 600mV (500mV + 100mV minimum) via USB Y cable or they shipped this cable just in case (this device can work via USB1.1) ?
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Looking good, I'm glad you already got Florentbr's s/w installed.
The probe compensation (alignment) only applies for the X10 position on the probes - you will likely see a good square wave on the X1 position because it is effectively a straight through cable rather than a x10 attenuator with resistive and capacitive elements. It would be unlikely (but not impossible) that they wouldn't need a little tweak.
There's really no difference between using the Owon or a bench scope with a properly specified high voltage differential probe for mains use (other that the probe being more times the cost of the scope). :) Don't forget to try the FFT function too, it does have one, it works pretty well (the 1022 and the Instek are both 8 bit resolution scopes after all).
The power consumption of the 1022(I) is pretty low - I didn't realize that they ship them with Y cables now. Mine, from several years ago, just came with a single USB-A to USB-A cable and works fine with desktops and laptops. I even bought a longer cable (3m?) cable for occasional use but, while it works, is probably pushing things a bit. Yes, it works fine on USB 1.1
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PS No one talked about it here: do we really need 600mV (500mV + 100mV minimum) via USB Y cable or they shipped this cable just in case (this device can work via USB1.1) ?
It is advisable to use USB Y cable on the 1022I model, since it consumes 400mA current in normal mode. I do not exclude that this value can change upward when changing the operating modes of the oscilloscope when 2 channels are simultaneously involved. It is known that the standard load capacity of a computer USB port is 500mA.
Therefore, it will be safer to use 2 USB ports and Y cable for more stable power. :)
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@Gyro, it is 10x and if my settings are correct (Auto mode I think) then I think there is no curve to be "aligned". Maybe importer checked the device manually, is this common misalignment we need to keep tracking or one time thing (I did a couple of "Default" resets via software btw)?
About the cable and that copper strip people reported (I didnt disassemble mine yet), barcode says VDS1022I2016396 so I guess I got an older model, old but gold?
@indman thats what I wanted to hear, and good thinking, I got a few "respectable" power meters for USB-A that I never use so I will report back as I can monitor both inputs.
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The probe alignment shouldn't shift, unless you swap them between channels (input capacitances are not necessary identical), but it's a good idea to check it occasionally. It's not something that will shift with s/w defaults.
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Yeah, I had to try it and used the suplied screwdriver a little bit. Everything back to normal :-+. Do I need to mod that copper strip in my model because barcode might be misleading (CD dates are 2020, tech specs paper says v1.2)?
PS I made a mistake, its not 500mV + 100mV but 500 + 100 mA. Using Ruideng gadget I saw it draw 2W+ when connected to its test pin and that is around 400-450mA. When I connected 2 readers then it was 230mA + 170mA, maybe my PC gives more then 100mA blindly.
I think it needs this Y cable just in case it runs out of juice (they should switch to USB3.0 and 900mA goodness).
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No, the copper strip was on an intermediate PCB revision. The early PCB version (mine) has no connection between the PCB ground and the case. There was an intermediate version which used a copper foil strip, wrapped around the edge of the PCB, between the top and bottom screening cans, to make contact with the case extrusion slot. The latest incarnation that I've seen photos of has wide bare tinned copper tracks down the side of the PCB to make contact with the case slot.
My early one is the only one with a floating case (which I rather like!), all the others have the case grounded to the probe grounds by some method. I have no idea how many PCB revisions have actually been in production, these are just the ones I know of.
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I was able to do it! :-BROKE
But readings were not triggered per se, they were pulsating diagonaly to the upper right corner which cant be seen on the screenshot. Usually they slide from right to left or something when not triggered. I have used CTRL+ENTER to get this reading once I saw some noise while probbing the clock pins, GND was used as a ref point.
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Good capture!
I notice that you have the channel input set to AC coupled, which could cause some bouncing of the waveform while probing around (which is maybe what you describe). Probing crystals is never that easy as the additional loading tends to disturb their operation, but you seem to have a nice clean waveform and trigger.
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For a device that only measures voltage it sure is complicated.
-negative_feedback 2020
It is nice only on screenshot, if I look at it for 10s then I get dizzy. In this video @6:00 author starts to test the crystal with SDS 1104X-E and his trigger is also Edge but no jumping waveform. If I want the same result I have to use single trigger which is cheating. (I have tried DC mode, different shape of wave with the same crazy jumping). Dont get me wrong, I came for the frequency only :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSHAE_Y6snc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSHAE_Y6snc)
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Here is a video capture, I just want to know if this device can correctly trigger waves like this.
https://we.tl/t-gZ0jxBONqE
Problem was in bad GND connection and thats why excessive noise was picked up.
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Hello, a new release has been released on the OWON official website: PC software for VDS1022 (I) version no. - 1.0.33
http://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.zip (http://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.zip)
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Thanks. Sadly no release notes yet again - I really wish they would learn.
Luckily florentbr's version remains nice and stable. From the look of the Github issues tab, it looks as if indman will be able to have his Russian translations included at some point too :) ...
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues)
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You need to manually select and install the OpenJDK 8 (LTS) version in order to make the Florentbr S/W work correctly (tested by uninstalling version 11 and installing V8).
Florentbr made another software update for our beloved oscilloscope! :-+
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022
I also found some problems installing the new version 1.0.33-cf11 on my Windows7x64.
I had to uninstall OpenJDK8 and install it again. I also noticed that during installation it is necessary to select and enable the items that I marked with a red arrow. Otherwise, you may have problems running the install.cmd script.
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Can the Owon VDS1022I decode I2C communications?
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No, it has no built in protocol decoders.
EDIT: You could try one of the <$10 ebay 8 bit logic analyser clones and Sigrok for cheap protocol decoding.
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Great news - Florentbr has just implemented Single and Normal triggering at slow timebases (when in Roll mode) - No more " Triggering not available below..." message when you set a slow timebase!
I can't remember how many years it is since I last asked Owon to look at this, but Florent has come up with the goods in his version of the S/W! He's even managed to retain the VDS1022 hardware triggering in this mode rather than fudging it in S/W. This will really add to the usability of the scope in more 'logging' type applications where you are looking for infrequent events.
The S/W is in the usual place: https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022)
He has implemented a bunch of other improvements too:
This software is an unofficial release for the OWON VDS oscilloscope with a few improvements:
Scripts to install the app on Linux/Windows/Mac
New shortcuts: single trigger, trigger level, offsets, coupling, inversion, reset ...
Added single/normal triggering for the rolling mode (time base >= 100ms/div)
Added option to measure a current instead of a voltage
Added buttons to change the color of the waves
Added option to persist/restore the settings
Improved the device stability and reduced CPU footprint
Improved the dock layout and disabled animations
Disabled the leave/stop confirmation while recording/playing
Merged the save image / export operation to a single button/dialog
Many fixes (see change list)
A big thank you Florent!
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I hope Owon monitors this thread and get the idea the benefits to sales figures for an entry level product can be brought by open software. I hope they get the message just like Rigol and "forget" their source built into their installers to inprove their value proposition.
Ah, before I forget: thanks Florent for an excellent job! The developments here are one of the reasons I continue to promote this scope here and in other fora and the improvements you and others did to it.
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@ GYRO
Thank you for the info on florentbr s new software
@ florentbr
Thank you for your continued fantastic software changes! I love & appreciate them. You got yourself some free beers. 11.11.
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My guarantee is over, so I have opened up my vds1022. There was no sticker oddly enough.
I saw some "funny" parts which I first thought were sloppy production but could reference them to post number 69 from KNO3-.
Looks like they were hand soldered, yep, maybe the fingerprints can tell us whodunnit ...
What I did notice was the different values to those from post 69.
R 58&59
120k Ohm = > 160k Ohm
R 64&65
36k Ohm = > 47k Ohm
Here some pics, maybe it is something interesting to twiddle with, maybe not.
My scope does have more noise on channel 2, no matter what I try.
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Thank you for your continued fantastic software changes! I love & appreciate them. You got yourself some free beers. 11.11.
He's doing well this week (well deserved), I hope he'll still be able to reach the mouse and keyboard from wherever he lands. ;D
My guarantee is over, so I have opened up my vds1022. There was no sticker oddly enough.
I saw some "funny" parts which I first thought were sloppy production but could reference them to post number 69 from KNO3-.
Looks like they were hand soldered, yep, maybe the fingerprints can tell us whodunnit ...
What I did notice was the different values to those from post 69.
R 58&59
120k Ohm = > 160k Ohm
R 64&65
36k Ohm = > 47k Ohm
Here some pics, maybe it is something interesting to twiddle with, maybe not.
My scope does have more noise on channel 2, no matter what I try.
They are pretty nifty at their hand mods, they're hard to spot. On my early generation board they had actually managed to swap USB D+ and D- by fitting the terminating resistors in an 'X' pattern across the footprints! It's in one of my early post photos.
Yours is what I call the 'mid generation' version (no idea how many actual PCB revs), which used the Copper strap to ground the case. It came between my early one (isolated case) and the latest one with bare tinned copper down the edges of the PCB to achieve the same function.
Regarding the resistor values, check out Alain's (aka Camomille) schematic reverse engineering threads around Reply #536 to see what the effect might be [Edit: post VGA gain stage]. I'll try to take a moment to see what they are on my early board (different part numbering).
I've noticed that occasionally, going through the fine voltage calibration procedure can affect the apparent noise on a trace (Ch1 or 2), presumably whether the zero offset calibration point is spanning an ADC bit boundary or not. Just a thought.
Chris
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@GYRO
Thank you for your feedback! No hurry about the resistor values in your vds1022 though. Just curious.
I came across Camomille's modification in post 538 of getting sensitivity to 2mV.
I am willing to try this, but am wondering, because there was no follow up on this. Hope Camomille is ok.
My question: will the sensitivity menu automatically add the 2mV value once the modification has been made?
The picture in post 538 does show it being there.
Any other input before I try this ....
Ah yes, I cannot get hold of smd resistors easily where I am. Would it be ok to use 1% metal film through hole ones instead?
Thank you.
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I didn't remember Camomille's 2mV mod (although I clearly commented at the time). No, he hasn't posted since the beginning of last year. It looks as if he did get it working because he made the attenuator to calibrate it.
The mod changes the gain of the fixed stage after the variable gain stage so it would require re-calibrating all ranges. No it wouldn't automatically add the 2mV setting, that would require a (hopefully simple) modification to one of the .jar files. The calibration procedure is on Florent's page.
Yes, you could use through hole resistors as the AD603 and doesn't have a particularly fine lead pitch. You would want to solder one end to the still-secured Pin 7 before gently unsoldering and lifting pin 5 - you would need to pre-form the leads of the resistor to closely meet up with pin 5 before soldering as you don't want to risk breaking it off by putting strain on it. A 1/8W resistor would be easier (smaller and thinner leads).
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Thank you again for your reply GYRO!
I am way out of my depth to program in Java, so I will leave this modification for now.
Florentbr references to other re-labeled OWON devices on the github site.
I went to the Peaktech site which claims the vertical sensitivity of said device is 2mV.
They have quite a bit of software you can download there (also a developer kit, fwiw).
https://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html (https://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/pc-oszilloskope/produkt/p_1290.html)
I did download it all and started up the Oscilloscope software, hoping it would have 2mV in the menu.
Alas, it does NOT. Hmmmm ...
Well, I certainly hope Camomille shows up again or maybe there is some other solution.
Cheers.
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I think that developer kit is for SCPI remote functionality (not sure, but it does include the SCPI reference document).
Alain does have a detailed table in Reply #534 where he worked out what attenuator gain setting is used for each range. It doesn't include a 2mV range though, and I'm not sure if he was using the same attenuator setting as the 5mV range and just using different ADC reading calibration.
There is the question of when background noise level makes a high sensitivity range pointless, but if the Peaktech version has a 2mV range, then it is probably still useable at that setting.
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For those who want to see correct Russian tips in the new cf12 release from florentbr , as well as a corrected translation into Russian!
It is necessary unzip to replace the owon-vds-tiny-1.0.33-cf12.jar file in the installed shell with a new one, which also contains my button icons and also icons from Gyro.
To display the tips in Russian, you need unzip and replace the file shortcuts.htm at: Path to the installed shell \OwonVdsTiny\doc\tips_ru\
I will write florentbr a letter with all modified files attached. I also suggest Gyro send florentbr a set of their beautiful icons and suggest to include them in the new release? :)
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Good work on correcting the Russian tips and translations. :-+
I also suggest Gyro send florentbr a set of their beautiful icons and suggest to include them in the new release? :)
Thanks for the compliment :), but I'm not actually sure that my icons would add much now. Florent already seems to have cherry-picked the ones that he found useful but clearly had his own ideas on others. These seem quite understandable (for instance he used a 7 segment digital display rather than my analogue meter dial for 'measurements'). His Math one is better too. He has also changed the menu structure, which makes some of the others redundant anyway.
Florent's choices might possibly be criticised for being less colourful (well, monochrome) compared to mine, but again this resolves some problems - for instance, my channel menu icon used fixed Green and Yellow for the fixed channel colours, whereas now these can be changed at will. Maybe The Autoset, Run/stop and single trigger icons might be improved, but my Autoset, just "AS" isn't great. I'm still not sure about the lightning bolt for 'trigger', but I'm not sure I have any particularly helpful replacement idea. He clearly reads this thread, even if he doesn't post here. He (or anyone) is, of course welcome to use any icons he wishes, I'll put a zip file below.
I've put screenshots of the original Owon, My icons (before Florent's menu structure changes), and Florent's below. His are still way more comprehensible than Owon's. Frankly, I prefer his to mine.
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@Gyro I understand that everyone has their own preferences and tastes!
It would be very nice if the user could choose a design from several options. Example Owon made a choice between blue and black skin. ;)
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Agreed - at least Florent chose the black theme, the Owon Blue one was horrible! (my personal opinion anyway ;))
Of course it is possible for users to unzip the owon-vds-tiny-1.0.33-cf12.jar and replace icons in the images folder without any sort of re-compiling issues. I might still play around with a few of them, but only really for 'fun'.
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My opinion is that the mode icons should be understandable to the user without additional decoding of the designation. From this point of view, the icons from Gyro are the most preferable for me. Another expressive Save / Pin icon is missing. ;) I would leave the "Measure" icon as in florentbr, just make it colored.
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I've extracted the icons and will have a play (I hate editing anti-aliased images :P). I'll submit to Florent when / if I manage to come up with a nicer drop-in set. I'll screenshot here first.
P.S. I noticed that the blue theme icon set is still there, but not edited - I can't fault him for that!
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Hi,
I recently bought a Picoscope and have just found out that in AC coupling mode, with a x10 probe, the DC signal is not attenuated so is limited to 40VDC. They explain,
"In AC mode the blocking capacitor is switched in before the 1M input impedance of the scope. AC signals will be attenuated by a factor of 10, but from a DC point of view the input impedance of the scope is (ideally) infinite due to the capacitor. In other words the input to the scope will see 400V not 40V. I would not worry about a overload at 40V, but 400V could cause problems."
Is this the same for the Owon?
So with x10 probe, can you measure 10VAC on top of 300VDC in AC coupling mode safely?
Thanks.
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A x10 probe is a DC resistive attenuator (with HF compensation). If you switch the scope to AC mode then, yes, the scope (pretty well all scopes) insert a DC blocking capacitor before the 1M resistive input (I believe there are a few that do it after, but they are pretty rare).
Without a DC path, the probe will present the full input DC input voltage to the scope input, effectively it becomes a 9M series resistor with a bit of parasitic capacitance. Whether a scope can withstand this depends on the voltage rating of its AC coupling capacitor. 400V 300V sounds too high for most scopes.
For a 400V 300V rail, the correct probe would be a X100 one rather than a X10 (even if they claim to be rated that high) and measure on DC. If you need more resolution for a small AC signal riding on top of a high DC one, then the safest approach is to use your own external capacitor, of known voltage rating, attached to the DC rail (again using the scope in DC mode) to provide a charge / discharge path.
Now for the safety disclaimers.... If the 400V 300V rail has any significant energy behind it, big reservoir capacitors for instance, then you need to make sure that the capacitor is well over-rated on voltage, and is preferably a safety type and make all connections before energising it and ensure that the scope stays DC mode, with probe. If it is high energy (Class II or above) then you need to look elsewhere - scopes are standard probes are Class I devices. If the rail is, in any way, directly related to Mains then you can't attach the ground clip to Neutral or any non-ground voltage. The only safe probing method is a high voltage differential probe.
The above is general information rather than VDS1022(I) specific, but I wouldn't go stuffing 400V 300V DC into it in AC coupled mode, any more than I would DC (that is, DC without the appropriate X100 probe).
I hope this helps.
P.S. Take a look at Dave's "How not to blow up your scope" video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaELqAo4kkQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaELqAo4kkQ)
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I'm mostly interested in measuring ripple on home brew high voltage <=48V COB LED drivers powered by floating bench supply for debugging.
As it's just above 40V limit, and assuming Owon add a margin for derating, is this OK with x10 probe?
Maybe it's worth or safer to change the capacitor under the can just to be sure?
Would an external capacitor circuit just involve a capacitor between probe and scope centres and resistor on scope end to ground? Like 1pF and 10MOhm?
And note taken to connect it all up before powering on.
I'm seen Dave's video but didn't pick up on how that applied to AC coupling mode.
I really appreciate the feedback.
Thanks.
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You're welcome.
It's a while since I watched Dave's video, he was a bit remiss there then.
Yes, at that sort of level a x10 probe (make sure the switch doesn't slip to x1) is fine.
Changing the capacitor under the shield is a tricky one - these days everything is smd and it's difficult to get an smd capacitor that has both high enough capacitance to avoid rolling off at too high a frequency and has a high voltage rating at the same time.
I would put an external cap (wire ended) between the probe tip and the circuit node that you're monitoring. This gives you the opportunity to optimise its value and voltage rating to the task in question. With the probe set to DC coupled, you can treat it as a 10M resistor if using a x10 probe and calculate the RC roll-off to suit the lowest frequency that you're interested in.
One advantage of using a x100 probe (the disadvantage being lower ultimate sensitivity) is that it has a 100M input impedance - so your capacitor value can be an order of magnitude lower for the same cutoff frequency. This neatly meshes with use at higher voltages where you also want to keep the (higher voltage) capacitor value down.
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OFFtop :-BROKE
Buck Boost Converter D3806 -> Output Active [set 3.33V]
Specified freq is 150kHz.
https://easyeda.com/subbbash/D3806-a3308e2429d04687bd07515b512cb7e9 (https://easyeda.com/subbbash/D3806-a3308e2429d04687bd07515b512cb7e9)
Where does 60Hz come from? Main freq in my country is 50Hz.
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With USB 3.0 work faster than 2.0.
@200us
3.0
One active channel ~67Hz sync
Two active channel ~47Hz sync
2.0
One active channel ~28Hz sync
Two active channel ~16Hz sync
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I am sorry, I don't understand what you are measuring here (or your 60Hz issue).
The VDS1022 only requires USB2 Full speed (12Mbps), so can work with very slow systems without any USB buffering issues. It is not capable of data transfer at USB2 High Speed (480Mbps) or faster, so there will should be no difference in the scope performance with USB2 vs USB3. Maybe some system or adapter related issue?
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I am sorry, I don't understand what you are measuring here (or your 60Hz issue).
The VDS1022 only requires USB2 Full speed (12Mbps), so can work with very slow systems without any USB buffering issues. It is not capable of data transfer at USB2 High Speed (480Mbps) or faster, so there will should be no difference in the scope performance with USB2 vs USB3. Maybe some system or adapter related issue?
It's output ripple without load.
In manual specified USB 1.1 for 1022(I).
I do not know the reason. Check your sync frequency on different USB ports.
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About voltage limit, in manual specified 400V (PK-PK) = 141Vrms, at front panel 400Vpk = 283Vrms...where is wrong?
I think mistake in manual...
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Ah, yes. USB 1.1 Full speed and USB 2 Full speed are the same, 12Mbps.
The voltage rating in the manual is rather confusing - the 400V Pk is with the scope probe set to x10. The maximum input at the BNC sockets is 40VPk.
Please see reply #580 for a slightly more detailed description - including warnings about attempting to scope the mains.
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the 400V Pk is with the scope probe set to x10. The maximum input at the BNC sockets is 40VPk.
Please see reply #580 for a slightly more detailed description - including warnings about attempting to scope the mains.
I know about divider in probe for high voltage. I mean differences between Vp and Vpp...in manual Vpp, at front panel Vp.
And how about Waveform Capture Rate for VDS1022...i have info for 2000wfms/sec....but i measured 16-67 from external sync(multi).
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PC software for VDS1022 (I) version no. - 1.0.34
http://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.zip (http://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.zip)
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PC software for VDS1022 (I) version no. - 1.0.34
http://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.zip (http://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.zip)
1.0.36
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I have been testing versions 1.0.34 and 1.0.36 of the software and in summary there is good news and bad news.
- Good news: they come with new versions of the FPGA configuration file: 3.9 and 4.1. Version 3.9 fixes the bug in previous versions where the pulse trigger has the time scale shifted. This version (3.9) works correctly with versions 1.0.33 or earlier of the software. Version 4.1 does not work with previous versions of the software.
- Bad news: In the software 1.0.34 and 1.0.36 they broke the trigger by pulse !! It doesn't work directly with any FPGA configuration file version.
I am using the FPGA v3.9 configuration file with the above software and everything works very well even the pulse trigger.
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Thanks crai. Useful findings.
I notice that V1.0.36 now contains three FPGA configuration files for the VDS1022... FPGAV1_V3.9, FPGAV2_V4.1 and FPGAV3_gaoyun, interesting (I bet the last one is an accidentally released debug version, they've done such things before).*
Oh, how I wish Owon would change their ways, issue release notes and stop using the same download file name for different versions (preventing access to previous versions)! |O It would be nice to know what changes are going unnoticed (apart from the stuff that they break and fix).
It will be interesting to try the different Config files with florentbr's software.
EDIT: *I notice that FPGAV2_V4.1 (166kB) and FPGAV3_gaoyun (217kB) are significantly bigger than the standard 147kB which has been constant, right back since V3.2. Maybe these are intended for modified hardware versions using different FPGA devices. This would explain them not working on existing H/W. Just a guess.
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An insight from florentbr on the new FPGA config and V1.0.36 S/W issue...
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/38#issuecomment-932995785 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/38#issuecomment-932995785)
It does appear that the different config files are for different H/W versions, based on s/n.
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Thanks Gyro, very interesting information!
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Hello,
I have done a review for it, check it out here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZFKKHnMYCo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZFKKHnMYCo)
I am very happy with it, very reliable and cheap enough for anyone to afford. best beginner scope.
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Nice to see a good intelligent review video - there are very few out there for the 1022I. :-+
There are quite a few shortcuts for added convenience and reduced reliance on the menus, I think I documented most of them in reply #44.
I would highly recommend that you try Florentbr's alternative software. It adds a lot of interface improvements (and even more shortcuts) as well as additional functionality, such as single trigger on very slow timebases. Florent is also very responsive to reasonable feature suggestions.
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Nice to see a good intelligent review video - there are very few out there for the 1022I. :-+
There are quite a few shortcuts for added convenience and reduced reliance on the menus, I think I documented most of them in reply #44.
I would highly recommend that you try Florentbr's alternative software. It adds a lot of interface improvements (and even more shortcuts) as well as additional functionality, such as single trigger on very slow timebases. Florent is also very responsive to reasonable feature suggestions.
this will be the topic of a future video, thanks
I hope my review gets people started with this awesome cheap and professional scope.
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Just adding a link to a thread on the use and timing of the trigger output from the other day, which might otherwise get lost...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-trigger-out/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-trigger-out/)
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Florentbr has done a very great job of improving the software and has released a new version 1.1.1 of cf13!
It's a nice gift from him for the New Year's holidays. :-+
Gyro,in the new 1.1.1 of cf13 the icons in the main menu have changed their size! Have you experienced this version yet? Will you be updating your set of beautiful icons? :)
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I'm having this issue with the last few versions from florentbr. When i open it on ubuntu 20.04, it opens in a strange position on the screen, and i have to drag it to another monitor which is above and to the left of the monitor it opens in so that i can position it properly on the screen. Anyone else having a similar issue? thank you!
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Gyro,in the new 1.1.1 of cf13 the icons in the main menu have changed their size! Have you experienced this version yet? Will you be updating your set of beautiful icons? :)
Hi Leon, I haven't used the new version in anger yet, but I have installed it next to the previous one. I have to say that I mostly like the new icons that Florent is coming up with - the trigger is better (closer in understandability to mine - I never liked the silly Owon lightning bolt), the Save/Pin is very clear now too. I'm not as keen on the new Display (too thick) and Mark Cursor ones compared to the previous version though.
He has achieved a good consistent 'theme' though - It always bugged me that I changed the Owon ones that I simply couldn't stand (or understand in isolation) but, while they were more colourful, there was no consistency between them.
I may have a go at editing the icons again, but while Florent is coming up with new variations, there seems less point. I'll be sure to post any tweaked ones that I come up with, but I haven't seen how the new ones look in a bitmap editor yet, so don't hold your breath. I may just try brightening them up with a bit more colour. I'm not seeing anything there that I can't live with (unlike some of the Owon originals, and it feels a bit 'picky' for me to be making small cosmetic changes while Florent is putting in all the hard work. :)
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I'm having this issue with the last few versions from florentbr. When i open it on ubuntu 20.04, it opens in a strange position on the screen, and i have to drag it to another monitor which is above and to the left of the monitor it opens in so that i can position it properly on the screen. Anyone else having a similar issue? thank you!
Sorry, I can't offer anything in the way of linux observations, but I wouldn't hold back on posting an issue on florentbr's github page. He is very responsive, and worst (best?) case, it can simply be understood and closed.
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I corrected some errors in Russian translation of menu items, as well as in the list of hotkeys in the new 1.1.1 of cf13. I also upgraded icons Run-Stop,AutoSet,SingleTrigger with 48x48 resolution to the ones I like better. For those who want to get these changes,I attach ready-made archive owon-vds-tiny-1.1.1-cf13.jar. It must be written in place of the original one from florentbr. ;)
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Good to see your effort on the translations.
I had completely forgotten about the Autoset / Run / Single icons (I was looking at the Menu ones). Your changes reminded me what I had previously changed them to. Your new ones look much better. :-+
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Florentbr has once again delighted released a new version 1.1.1 of cf14! :)
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Good to see your effort on the translations.
That reminded me to thank you for all the efforts you had put into this oscilloscope tear down that became a gamechanger for me.
I have no engineering or electrician background even though I did my own solar power roof , so I rely on the opinions and arguments of others what might fit best for me.
I had a budget limit of 60€ and wanted a Hantek 6022BE, but ordered a 6022BL, did my first connection with hscope on a 4 year old tabled running android 6 and achieved my first callibration and the first 230 V measurement with a dedicated x100 probe as you had recommended it in several topics about the non i version and others. But it went wrong cause I did not get the sine wave I was looking for, but jumping values from 2V to 241V without any clue until I asked myself why those voltages jumped up and down without any real graph except short lines up and down. And then I got it: the Hantek 6022 series did not even support ac coupling which even chip diy handheld oscilloscope did and I could not believe.
From that moment I was sure I had to sell the new Hantek and get a Owon instead, even though not willing to go for the 1022i and its 20€ higher price. But finally after fidling around with the 220 measurement where I had taped one connection to avoid any short I thought I had to go the 1022i route. Was a long and winding road to get all the knowledge what x10 and x100 probe really mean and how it would work, also the question of android and app support, how to connect, calibrate and power such device till I ordered the Hantek and held it in my hand. Main purpose is to check cheap chinese solar inverters for pure sine wave quality after I had gotten 2 bad ones claiming to have pure sine inverters which are modified sine inverters with a 4 or 5 step sine wave in each direction. Works, but we had issues and 2 new TV (about 3 year old) died recently without a cause except that the solar power connection is quite close to that outlet where the TV plug gets the power from.
And the bigger part should be the RC model area especially flight controller and bus signals .
So thanks a lot for sharing the idea and helping others to get safely into the hobby.
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Speaking for myself, and hopefully for the others, it has been a fun learning experience doing a teardown and analysis of a (then) new piece of hardware, and helping others to understand its strengths and limitations. While we have helped to improve the S/W in some ways, most credit must go to Florentbr (who isn't a forum member) for his major efforts to re-write and add many features to the S/W.
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Yes, that is also true and easy overlooked too as I had also overlooked the age of the topic: 7 years ago you did that
I mean it needs someone to create the critical mass and to bring a stone into the rolling as we have a saying.
That is what you achieved cause others picked up the essentials of what you had found out: good hardware, software might need some more care
and Florentin was one of them as maybe Martin Loren for the hscope app on the android version which I use cause I had a good, but 5 yaar 8 inch pure android 6 tablet laying aorund with a high res screen - and within a second it got his second or better 3rd life and usage once I had plugged in the micro USB adapter I had laying around from Pi Zero projects and as smartphone otg adapter for USB storages.
Finally Thundertronics made a yt review of the vds1022i starting from the very beginning and first steps for beginners which is also very helpfull for all those new coming into electronics, especially those who are new into solar power, solar generators and the quality of the pure sine waves many chinese claim to have but are modified ones. That was my route into getting one cause otherwise I would only have gotten such OSD 150 from JYE tech or a 50€ handheld one for my RC hobby to get into the flight controler and servo outputs.
Here is a link to the detailed review and how to use it for beginners especially for those who will read along these 700 comment long topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZFKKHnMYCo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZFKKHnMYCo)
For those like you most likely old stuff but for me the best source to make my decision after I had purchased a hantek 6022BL that worked with hscope pretty well but not with ac cause it has no ac coupling. Not a big deal cause I will sell it easily to someone else having it here inside the EU, but I had lost time and now went even further for the VDS1022i instead of the non isolated 20€ cheaper one.
thx again :clap:
But I have one question you might be able to answer: wasn't that scope back in 2014 or so a lot ahead of the whole competition considering that it still stays on the top of the competition spec wise ?
And do you know about hardware iterations and improvements over those 7 or 9 year long production lifecycle ?
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yoga,The link to the video of VEGETA is from its on the previous page(26).There are not many in this thread and it is not difficult to read it carefully, so as not to repeat it several times same thing.
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But I have one question you might be able to answer: wasn't that scope back in 2014 or so a lot ahead of the whole competition considering that it still stays on the top of the competition spec wise ?
And do you know about hardware iterations and improvements over those 7 or 9 year long production lifecycle ?
Yes, it's fairly unusual for a product to last that long in the market, although I think the Hantek 6022 and Rigol desktop scope have had similar lifespans (certainly I referenced the 6022 in the original post). Bench PSUs for instance, have changed a lot (mainly for the smps worse) in that time.
We know a reasonable amount about the hardware changes over the years. Mine is a very early one, with quite a few hand mods, it used a switching regulator for the negative analogue supply rail rather than the later linear one (which may account for it having a lower supply current than others have reported). It is also the only one that doesn't have a connection between the case and the probe grounds, it also has a dedicated sync decoder for analogue video - fairly redundant these days.
Later revisions then added copper foil to make the case ground connection to the input shielding cans and linear -ve regulator (strangely, from traces that others have posted, neither of these changes seems to have changed the noise levels on the most sensitive ranges). Later still, the case grounding was done by naked traces along the edges of the PCB. At some point, the dedicated video sync decoder was removed and the functionality included in the FPGA.
Most recent of all seems to be a change in FPGA manufacturer. I'm don't know whether this was due to cost of supply issues. I think Florentbr is the only one who really knows about that one as he included images for both in his recent releases, you can find a bit more detail in one of the closed issues on his Github S/W page. That is the only change that is tied down to a specific Serial Number range. The other historic changes (while they are probably tied to S/N, and certainly PCB revision) are less well defined.
Hantek seem to have concentrated on keeping the 6022 as cheap as possible during this time, I don't know what cost reductions they have introduced, but it still doesn't have AC coupling and relies on the PC S/W and USB speed for it's triggering functions. The 6022 thread (referenced in my original post) shows the inventiveness of owners, including the OpenHantek S/W and add-on switchable input coupling implementations, but I haven't followed the thread closely.
P.S. The FPGA image has gone through a few versions over the years, presumably bug fixes or performance improvements - Owon are hopeless at documenting changes!
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New version 1.1.1 of cf15 - from Florentbr.
added :
noise filtering ( very good )
improved FFT
etc.
works on linux great.
Thanks Florentbr.
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Wow, Florent really seems to be pushing the boat out on useful new features! I wasn't expecting to see another update for quite some time yet.
Installed correctly on Win7 X64.
Thank you Florent.
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I had a budget limit of 60€ and wanted a Hantek 6022BE, but ordered a 6022BL, did my first connection with hscope on a 4 year old tabled running android 6 and achieved my first callibration and the first 230 V measurement with a dedicated x100 probe as you had recommended it in several topics about the non i version and others. But it went wrong cause I did not get the sine wave I was looking for, but jumping values from 2V to 241V without any clue until I asked myself why those voltages jumped up and down without any real graph except short lines up and down. And then I got it: the Hantek 6022 series did not even support ac coupling which even chip diy handheld oscilloscope did and I could not believe.
You do not need AC coupling if you measure a pure AC signal like 230V mains, it is only needed if the signal has a big DC offset. With a x100 probe the 230V AC will result in a 2.3V AC signal at the scope (this is a sine wave going from -3.1V up to +3.1V what can easily displayed with the 6022 out of the box. You have to connect the GND of the probe to N or even more safe to PE. I also did mains measurements with 6022BE and hscope with my DIY 1:100 attenuator, I did also the same measurement with OpenHantek6022, see screenhot on github:
https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022/blob/main/docs/images/screenshot_mainwindow.png
And nevertheless, if AC coupling is needed you can either use a simple DC breaker or do my AC modification that is also supported by OpenHantek6022: https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022/blob/main/docs/HANTEK6022_AC_Modification.pdf
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You do not need AC coupling if you measure a pure AC signal like 230V mains, it is only needed if the signal has a big DC offset. With a x100 probe the 230V AC will result in a 2.3V AC signal at the scope (this is a sine wave going from -3.1V up to +3.1V what can easily displayed with the 6022 out of the box. You have to connect the GND of the probe to N or even more safe to PE. I also did mains measurements with 6022BE and hscope with my DIY 1:100 attenuator, I did also the same measurement with OpenHantek6022, see screenhot on github:
https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022/blob/main/docs/images/screenshot_mainwindow.png
And nevertheless, if AC coupling is needed you can either use a simple DC breaker or do my AC modification that is also supported by OpenHantek6022: https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022/blob/main/docs/HANTEK6022_AC_Modification.pdf
You should never connect the probe ground clip of a scope to mains Neutral. This is a dangerous practice which could cause a serious accident. With the Hantek 6022, there is no USB isolation, which means that any potential difference between N and PE will pass through the ground lead, USB connection and PC PE ground connection. While this potential difference should be small in a properly wired installation, if there are high current loads on the circuit, it could be capable of sourcing large currents though the above loop, due to resistive drop in the Neutral conductor between the distribution panel and the load. Small voltage difference doesn't automatically mean low current in this low impedance situation.
Even with the USB Isolated VDS1022I, connecting the ground clip to Neutral isn't safe. If accidentally mis-connected, it could cause the casing to become live (clips can slip too), and potential damage if the other probe clip is connected to PE. The USB isolation will protect the PC USB port, but not the user touching the case or probe clip.
Connecting the ground clip to PE is safe as long as the mains installation is safely wired and the connection secure (clips can slip).
The proper solution for scoping mains is either a high voltage differential probe or an isolating transformer, but whatever you do, you should never attach a probe ground clip to mains Neutral.
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Just a note that Owon S/W V1.1.3 is now available on their website... http://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.zip (http://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.zip)
I haven't tried it, but have noted that this now contains five FPGA firmware images, so may be relevant to owners of very recent units if they are not behaving as expected.
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Florent has released a new version (1.1.3-cf16) of his alternative (some may say better) VDS1022 software (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022). I tested it on two Linux (Xubuntu) machines and one Windows machine, with four brand new VDS1022s and one old one. It works perfectly! Wow, that was quick!
A.J.
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He doesn't hang about! :-+
Thanks Florent.
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Now that all my new VDS1022s work great, what's the next logical step. Tear them apart, of course! So I took one of my new unit apart - two screws, it's probably the easiest teardown imaginable - and sure enough, it's a brand new PCB, labeled VDS1022_2.2 2021.08.18. I took pictures of both the top and bottom, in case they'll interest anyone.
A.J.
[attach=1][attach=2]
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That's interesting, it's good to see a latest version in the flesh., thanks for undoing those screws!
Just some observations...
- The board looks nice and clean, you used to get flux residues and fingerprints. I can't see any bodges... ah, it looks like they've bodged an extra (or bigger) capacitor next to U20.
- They've switched to a GOWIN FPGA. The originals were XILINX but I've no idea what the three intervening ones were. I hope, for Florent's sake, that they've stocked up on them this time!
- They're still using the same PCB for I and non-I versions. The isolated DC-DC converter footprint is different to the early versions though. I wonder what they use now (useful to know in case somebody wants to upgrade to the I version). They've also beefed up the optional (non-I) zero ohm resistors bridging the ground planes on the bottom of the board, maybe for improved EMC performance (or possibly, signal integrity).
- There's now a nice clearly marked JTAG header footprint. I notice there's also an unmarked header footprint on the opposite side of the FPGA.
- They've added an unpopulated push-button footprint, probably Reset for debug use?
- There's a new 3 pin through-hole connector footprint near the input regulators, maybe external power during development. [EDIT: No, duplicate serial port connector]
- It's interesting that, after all these versions, they've still retained the footprints for the serial interface. I wonder if they ever used it. [EDIT: Well, if they've added a duplicate connector, they must do during development]
- They've put the dedicated Video Sync decoder IC back, I thought they'd cost-reduced that out. Otherwise they analogue side looks the same, if it ain't broke...
- The Analogue -VE rail regulator is still a linear one. My early version has a switching regulator, with a lot of bodgery around it (I think it has lower overall USB supply current though).
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Great oscilloscope.
It is a pity that there is no software for android.
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I've just noticed that Florent has released a new version of his alternative VDS1022 software. It now includes full screen X-Y mode, plus some fixes for later units... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022)
Thanks Florent!
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I've just noticed that Florent has released a new version of his alternative VDS1022 software. It now includes full screen X-Y mode, plus some fixes for later units... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022)
Thanks Florent!
Thanks Gyro for continuously updating this thread each time Florent updates the github repo :-+
About the full screen XY display, I don't see an option, but it looks like this now, instead of the XY part being at the top left. Is this what's meant by full screen? thank you! :)
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Yes, it threw me for a while too. You need to tick X-Y mode in the 'Display' menu, and then click on the single/split screen icon (the one to the left of the home button) on the main screen.
I'm not sure if Florent intended it this way - it could be more intuitive. :)
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It was me that requested the full screen XY mode,
I use a curve tracer (octopus) for troubleshooting difficult faults where nothing else is showing up anything significant and pcb comparison sometimes using the VDS on a 15" laptop. So much better on the VDS than using it on a standard analog scope ... e.g. probe first connection, hit spacebar (this freezes the image) .... move probe to the connection to be compared, hit spacebar ... and you get an instant AB comparison.
With getting old now the original tiny XY screen on the 3x screen display was difficult to see from where I sit the laptop ... after a few beers one night I requested the full screen version with no idea if Florent would implement it... :)
I've just installed it ... won't be able to try for a while yet so not seen it work. Yeah it was meant to be switched by the Single/To Three view button which IMO is intuitive.
I think this has also given a new full screen width FFT + normal scope screen too instead of 3 screen display in FFT mode ... switched by same button ... although I can't remember now if it was like that originally... :)
Here's my original request, this will explain why the "To Three view" button was used the way it was:
Is it possible to get XY mode in full screen like the FFT screen? Maybe I just haven't found how to do it?
When FFT is enabled it can be toggled to full screen with the "to three view/to one view" button above "trigger" (bottom right).
I use XY mode a lot sometimes when troubleshooting & it would help me if I could full screen view the XY screen to see it better from where I sit, is that possible?
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It was a good request, I suspect that several of us wanted full screen X-Y but didn't think that Florent would want to / be able to tweak the screen to that extent. Yes, it looks as if we got full screen FFT for free too!
Having to go to menu items to select either X-Y or FFT doesn't seem too much of a burden considering that you are going to be selecting those modes for a specific purpose anyway... and by default, if you don't select either, you still get the split screen scope + X-Y if you hit the 'Single to Three view' button.
The only improvement I can think of is to make the 'Single to Three view' button operate three ways (in keeping with its title), Full screen scope -> Full screen X-Y -> Split screen scope + X-Y, with similar behaviour if FFT is selected instead.
It would still require Menu action to enable FFT, but that is probably the less used function on an bit scope, albeit much more useful now it has a decent display size!
Edit: Full screen FFT confirmed working. :-+
P.S. I've posted an issue on Florent's github page, if you have an alternative view to what I suggested, please add a comment.
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The only improvement I can think of is to make the 'Single to Three view' button operate three ways (in keeping with its title), Full screen scope -> Full screen X-Y -> Split screen scope + X-Y, with similar behaviour if FFT is selected instead.
Yeah that's why I initially asked if I maybe hadn't found out how to get the 3rd vlew LOL ... yes the software is getting good now I've sent him some euro's in appreciation ... :)
P.S. I've posted an issue on Florent's github page, if you have an alternative view to what I suggested, please add a comment.
I see he's already "on the case" ... agree with your ideas so I've added my interest in further view development too. It's funny if I hadn't had a few beers initially I would never have asked in the first place LOL ... :)
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Just a note that Florent has updated his S/W version (OWON-VDS1022-1.1.3-cf18) to implement the Full screen scope / Split screen X-Y + Scope / Full screen 3 way button as discussed.
Thanks Florent!
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Hi!
Is it possible to implement Bode Plot for this oscilloscope? That would be really cool. :)
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Hi!
Is it possible to implement Bode Plot for this oscilloscope? That would be really cool. :)
This oscilloscope doesn't have a function generator, so very very unlikely (someone would have to write quite a lot, to read the input frequency and amplitude in both channels from the measurements then automate timebase and voltage range adjustments, from reading those measurements) I think possible but not worth trying to do it
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This oscilloscope doesn't have a function generator
You can use an external generator - it's easy. DSO5102 - has a Bode Plot option, albeit in a simplified form.
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Maybe the trigger (multi) BNC could be used to trigger/synchronise the external sweep generator.
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Gyro,yes it can be used as in this example with DSO5102
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPuj072zMvw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPuj072zMvw)
But how correctly and logically answered me florent:
"The VDS1022 has the same fake Bode Plot capabilities as the one from your link.
It's called roll mode or slow mode. I wouldn't call it a Bode plot given that it doesn't have a log scale.
It's also limited to the current time-range and buffer size."
I agree with his opinion. ;)
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Hi guys (and possibly gals),
I've been reading through this thread and I'm blown away by all the great work that has been done here, many kudos to all of you!
I'm thinking about purchasing the Owon VDS1022I, it looks perfect for an occasional tinkerer like myself.
To not risk blowing up an expensive laptop, like someone else in this thread did, I would like to pair it with a spare Raspberry Pi 3b+ and an ancient 15" 1024x768 VGA monitor.
So far I've set everything up on the Pi side, including Florentbr's custom software, it all seems to be running rather well but since I don't own the Owon yet I can't really test how this software performs on the Pi.
I know people in this thread have been talking about running it on a Pi but did any of you test it and were there trade offs compared to pairing the Owon to a decently specced laptop?
Many thanks in advance!
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Hi, welcome to the forum.
The VDS1022(I) is very modest in it's USB requirements, it transfers data at USB full speed (12Mbps) rather than USB high speed (480Mbps) so it isn't going to put any particular strain on the Pi, either data speed or processing. I haven't run it on a Pi myself, but if you already have Florent's S/W working then I can't see a problem.
With the galvanically isolated VDS1022I, it is really very difficult to blow up a laptop via its USB port (that's its purpose). The non-isolated plain VDS1022 is a completely different matter, you can inflict damage with this as easily as you can with most other PC hosted instruments (logic analysers, Hantek, Picoscope, Analog Discovery, MicroVNA etc).
P.S. I think many of us may be interested in hearing about your results, so do please report back. :)
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Hi Gyro,
thanks for the welcome and the reply.
My main concern with the Pi would be the actual computer side processing, but to my understanding most of it happens in the scope, unlike the Hantek 6022be (which was my first choice until I stumbled upon this thread) which does most of its stuff in software.
The software does run but it can still fail on the usb connection, but we'll find out....
As for the "blowing stuff up', I've ordered the isolated version, that should give me some peace of mind if I need to hook it up to a laptop.
In the mean time I've also installed PulseView/sigrok on the Pi as I'm also getting a cheap logic analyzer, but that's beyond the scope (no pun intended :) ) of this thread.
Anyway, I've just placed my order on Amazon, expected delivery is the 17th of August.
I'll report my findings on how it works with the Pi here.
Thanks!
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Hi all,
I've received my OWON VDS1022I today, a day earlier than expected and did some testing on the Raspberry Pi 3.
For starters let me first correct an error I made in my previous post, it's a regular Raspberry Pi 3b and NOT a 3b+ .
Let's move along to the good stuff now...
Setup:
Platform: Raspberry Pi 3b 1.2Ghz / 1GB (no overclock)
PSU: LiteOn 5.2V / 2A -> replaced by some Chinesium PSU 5V / 2A to combat the undervoltage warnings
Powered USB hub: Dlink DUB-H4 (5V / 2.5A)
OS: DietPi 8.7 (Debian BullsEye 32bit) + LXDE desktop environment
Scope: OWON VDS1022I
Software: Florentbr OWON VDS1022 1.1.3
Findings:
It's kind of plug&play, connect the scope to the Pi's onboard USB ports, start the software and it works BUT....
The above strongly depends on the PSU that's powering the Pi, the first PSU I used caused undervoltage issues, I needed to use a powered USB hub with it.
However, the second PSU I used resolved the undervoltage issue as well as omitting the need for the powered hub.
Next let's talk about performance...
With the Pi at stock clocks it looks like it's performing ok, however since I haven't tested it on a decent laptop yet, I haven't gotten any point of reference on how it should perform. (number of trace updates per second)
It does look like it's overloading a single core, htop shows the OWON thread as being at 123%, this will most likely have a negative impact on the update rate.
To counter this I've overclocked my Pi's CPU to 1.4 Ghz, as you can imagine it generates quite some more heat now, to handle this extra heat I've added a heatsink to the SoC, it still gets rather toasty (60°C) while using the scope software, but since the final version will be cooled with a 40mm fan this won't be an
issue.
As for the scope itself, I've only tested it with the build in 1 Khz square wave signal and this is working really well.
The noise on the trace is acceptable and I'm happy with my purchase.
I paid 117€ for the scope (isolated version) on Amazon with free shipping, a pretty good deal if you ask me.
The rest of the setup is all stuff that was lying around here collecting dust, I finally was able to upcycle it and put it to good use.
TLDR: You can pair this scope with a Raspberry Pi, it appears to work pretty well but will most likely not perform as good as it would on a decent specced laptop.
If you have any questions regarding the subject please fire away!
Kind regards
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A good writeup Pihkal. Thanks very much.
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Hi!
Is it possible to implement Bode Plot for this oscilloscope? That would be really cool. :)
This oscilloscope doesn't have a function generator, so very very unlikely (someone would have to write quite a lot, to read the input frequency and amplitude in both channels from the measurements then automate timebase and voltage range adjustments, from reading those measurements) I think possible but not worth trying to do it
I don't have one of these scopes, but am thinking about getting an isolated one for 'riskier' measurements to make sure I don't damage my PC or my more expensive Picoscope. The simplest way I can think of to automate Bode plots with one is to write a Python script to control things. This came to mind as I am currently playing with a very simple Arduino-controlled AD9833-based function generator project, where I send the desired generator frequency to the Arduino over the COM port using a Python script. This is not an original idea of course.
For the measurement part of the Bode plot, it looks like the Python API that florentbr built has an autoset function. If that autoset works well enough, then florentbr did all of the hard work for us! It actually only needs to get the amplitude settings okay, since we would know the frequency already so could do a final time-base adjustment if needed (eg, if the signal is aliased to ensure the signal is not aliased). If the Owon works like my Picoscopes, having the wrong time-base that creates an aliased signal actually doesn't impact the amplitude measurement much, if at all, so it should work out fine.
Of course, the physical setup for Bode plots would require the function generator output and one scope channel on the input of the DUT, and the other scope channel on the output of the DUT. Automating the Bode plot would then amount to looping over the frequencies of interest. For each frequency
1. set the function generator frequency
2. run the autoset function on the scope. Perhaps adjust the time-base based on the known frequency.
3. measure the amplitudes on each scope channel and the phase difference (or time-delay) between them.
After looping over the frequencies, the plots could then be made in Python pretty easily. There are multiple ways to do step 3, of course. Without having one of these scopes I wouldn't pretend to know how exactly, but surely the API, in conjunction with other Python functions, could be used.
Anyway, I just thought I would put that idea out there in case someone cares enough to try and make it work.
I suspect many folks around here could do the coding better than I can, but I would be happy to share my super-simple Arduino and Python code for the signal generator if folks are interested in trying it out. This is my first ever project using either a microcontroller or Python, and since I just started yesterday it is a rough work-in-progress not worthy of posting as an actual 'project'. The analog output I cobbled together with parts in my bin is okay, but still on a breadboard and powered using a bench supply.
cheers!
jason
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I'm trying to read sine wave of AVR generator, mains and DC-AC inverter by using barebone 10x probe (9Mohm+1Mohm internal afaik). Can I make this graph "fit" or I have to use step-down transformer? :-BROKE
Attached image is for single phase 230VAC/50Hz readout on grounded desktop PC.
PS Please don't suggest buying hardware (DP10013 in this case) that costs more then an oscilloscope at hand...
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don't suggest buying hardware (DP10013 in this case) that costs more then an oscilloscope at hand...
DP10013 is not necessary to buy, but a 100:1 probe will be just what you need. ;)
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Is there half-decent software way of doing this, change the proble in settings to 100x and such ?
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https://how-to.fandom.com/wiki/How_to_make_a_100X_oscilloscope_probe (https://how-to.fandom.com/wiki/How_to_make_a_100X_oscilloscope_probe)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl8I4PO66Uw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl8I4PO66Uw)
Building a 1000x probe will give you a lot of useful information that is relevant for a 100x probe as well ;)
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No you are saturating the hardware — the analogue front end and/or the ADC, and you need to scale it down. No reasonable software fix for this. But placing your own potential divider across this particular source to scale down for your existing probe is easy.
On the safety point, if you are relying on the USB isolation remember that the exposed part of the BNC connector will be connected to your source and even if is is a ‘neutral’ connection is considered to be a live conductor, and you should treat that and this whole scenario with some caution, due to the potential fault currents and shock risks. If you have a low voltage transformer kicking around, this is likely a safer answer: you can ‘calibrate’ the scale factor by comparing the input and output voltages using a multimeter.
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Hi!
Is it possible to implement Bode Plot for this oscilloscope? That would be really cool. :)
This oscilloscope doesn't have a function generator, so very very unlikely (someone would have to write quite a lot, to read the input frequency and amplitude in both channels from the measurements then automate timebase and voltage range adjustments, from reading those measurements) I think possible but not worth trying to do it
I don't have one of these scopes, but am thinking about getting an isolated one for 'riskier' measurements to make sure I don't damage my PC or my more expensive Picoscope. The simplest way I can think of to automate Bode plots with one is to write a Python script to control things. This came to mind as I am currently playing with a very simple Arduino-controlled AD9833-based function generator project, where I send the desired generator frequency to the Arduino over the COM port using a Python script. This is not an original idea of course.
For the measurement part of the Bode plot, it looks like the Python API that florentbr built has an autoset function. If that autoset works well enough, then florentbr did all of the hard work for us! It actually only needs to get the amplitude settings okay, since we would know the frequency already so could do a final time-base adjustment if needed (eg, if the signal is aliased to ensure the signal is not aliased). If the Owon works like my Picoscopes, having the wrong time-base that creates an aliased signal actually doesn't impact the amplitude measurement much, if at all, so it should work out fine.
Of course, the physical setup for Bode plots would require the function generator output and one scope channel on the input of the DUT, and the other scope channel on the output of the DUT. Automating the Bode plot would then amount to looping over the frequencies of interest. For each frequency
1. set the function generator frequency
2. run the autoset function on the scope. Perhaps adjust the time-base based on the known frequency.
3. measure the amplitudes on each scope channel and the phase difference (or time-delay) between them.
After looping over the frequencies, the plots could then be made in Python pretty easily. There are multiple ways to do step 3, of course. Without having one of these scopes I wouldn't pretend to know how exactly, but surely the API, in conjunction with other Python functions, could be used.
Anyway, I just thought I would put that idea out there in case someone cares enough to try and make it work.
I suspect many folks around here could do the coding better than I can, but I would be happy to share my super-simple Arduino and Python code for the signal generator if folks are interested in trying it out. This is my first ever project using either a microcontroller or Python, and since I just started yesterday it is a rough work-in-progress not worthy of posting as an actual 'project'. The analog output I cobbled together with parts in my bin is okay, but still on a breadboard and powered using a bench supply.
cheers!
jason
Some FRA code seems to be already there, in the example notebook Florentbr provided with the software distribution so to illustrate the API: https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/blob/master/api/python/vds1022.ipynb
Scroll down to "Frequency Response Analysis".
I haven't managed to understand the mechanics, though. He seems to increase the frequency (on the scope side) just by increasing the sampling rate. The external generator is not taken into account.
Maybe you can shed some light about these aspects..
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More specifically, here is the code, leaving out plotting or importing helper modules:
dev = VDS1022(debug=0)
dev.set_sampling('10k')
dev.set_channel(CH1, range='10v', probe='x10')
dev.set_channel(CH2, range='10v', probe='x10')
points, freq_prev = { }, -1
try:
for ch1, ch2 in dev.fetch_iter(freq=4):
freq, phase = ch1.freq() # compute frequency and phase
freq = freq and round(freq)
if freq and freq == freq_prev:
points[freq] = 20 * np.log10(ch2.rms() / ch1.rms())
dev.set_sampling(freq * 50) # increase frequency
print('%d: %dHz %.fdBv ' % (len(points), freq, points[freq]), end='\r')
freq_prev = freq
except KeyboardInterrupt:
x, y = zip(*sorted(points.items())) # sort, unzip
Note that this just acquires the pairs (freq,phase), unless I'm missing something obvious...
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Hi Balnazzar,
I do not have one of these scopes so have not used his code at all. What I was referring to is the fact that the api appears to have a lot of nice features, including an autoset function. So in principle it should be straightforward to implement Bode plotting as long as you have a function generator you can control from python. Having to write your own code to automatically adjust the vertical scale can be a hassle.
Jason
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This is sounding like it's gaining a little traction. Indman raised it on Florent's github page a couple of months ago but I just noticed that Florent closed it as being a bit too broad a definition. Maybe you could add some additional ideas or detail... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/57 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/57)
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This is sounding like it's gaining a little traction. Indman raised it on Florent's github page a couple of months ago but I just noticed that Florent closed it as being a bit too broad a definition. Maybe you could add some additional ideas or detail... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/57 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022/issues/57)
Jason is right in saying that the API exposes a good autoset function. The problem is that you can't call it every time the AWG takes a step forward, unless the awg does a very, very slow sweep, and you make sure to sync properly. E.g., in pseudocode:
establish frq_bins width (steps)
for each frq_bin
measure frq&phase, then store;
keep polling and wait for the next frq_bin threshold;
as it hits that threshold, autoset(); then go to the next iteration
endfor
end
Note that as you call autoset() and wait for the scope to adjust, the awg should temporarily stop the sweep. That's why, probably, Florent implemented that FRA example snippet without resorting to any autoset() call..
But then I'm not understanding the logic behind his implementation. Not much surprisingly, that code doesn't work out of the box, no matter how slowly the awg performs the sweep. Maybe you guys could chime in here.
If you have time and will, please test the code by yourself..
Thanks!
P.S.: I'll try and open an issue (which of course is not an issue) on the repo, but my impression is that the good Florent, while actively engaged in improving the vds1022i software, has nevertheless no time to take requests from multiple users into account.
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having taken this oscilloscope with me a few times to other places, it has suffered some eye damage, requiring emergency surgery in one ocasion
So i'm wondering if anyone has found a suitable hard carry case for it? searching on amazon, hard carry cases for electronics are either too large or too small for it. Does anyone have any recommendations? thank you!
Edit: in line image attachments never work for me!
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having taken this oscilloscope with me a few times to other places, it has suffered some eye damage, requiring emergency surgery in one ocasion
So i'm wondering if anyone has found a suitable hard carry case for it? searching on amazon, hard carry cases for electronics are either too large or too small for it. Does anyone have any recommendations? thank you!
Edit: in line image attachments never work for me!
See the link below. You can arrange the separators so that it doesn't move. I use it to carry the 1022i and my multimeter.
https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B08LPFGVQG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B08LPFGVQG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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anyone knows how to cancel out the noise of the probe before using it? I mean when the probe is not connected to anything... it still displays some waveform which I think affect real measurements.
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having taken this oscilloscope with me a few times to other places, it has suffered some eye damage, requiring emergency surgery in one ocasion
So i'm wondering if anyone has found a suitable hard carry case for it? searching on amazon, hard carry cases for electronics are either too large or too small for it. Does anyone have any recommendations? thank you!
Edit: in line image attachments never work for me!
See the link below. You can arrange the separators so that it doesn't move. I use it to carry the 1022i and my multimeter.
https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B08LPFGVQG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B08LPFGVQG/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Thanks! that seems to be not super large, could you please share a picture of the scope in it? I would like to be able to see how it would fit in that case, thanks again!
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anyone knows how to cancel out the noise of the probe before using it? I mean when the probe is not connected to anything... it still displays some waveform which I think affect real measurements.
Probably only when set to high sensitivity and it's mains frequency or some local noisy SMPS.
Just normal shit you need to work with or ignore.
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anyone knows how to cancel out the noise of the probe before using it? I mean when the probe is not connected to anything... it still displays some waveform which I think affect real measurements.
Probably only when set to high sensitivity and it's mains frequency or some local noisy SMPS.
Just normal shit you need to work with or ignore.
the problem is that I need to measure power supply noise and ripple to below 10 mv which is why I need to null this.
so there is no solution or workaround?
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anyone knows how to cancel out the noise of the probe before using it? I mean when the probe is not connected to anything... it still displays some waveform which I think affect real measurements.
Probably only when set to high sensitivity and it's mains frequency or some local noisy SMPS.
Just normal shit you need to work with or ignore.
the problem is that I need to measure power supply noise and ripple to below 10 mv which is why I need to null this.
so there is no solution or workaround?
Well we are hardly clairvoyant so without a screenshot showing settings and connections or not we have no idea what you see so can't advise with any degree of accuracy.
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anyone knows how to cancel out the noise of the probe before using it? I mean when the probe is not connected to anything... it still displays some waveform which I think affect real measurements.
Probably only when set to high sensitivity and it's mains frequency or some local noisy SMPS.
Just normal shit you need to work with or ignore.
the problem is that I need to measure power supply noise and ripple to below 10 mv which is why I need to null this.
so there is no solution or workaround?
Well we are hardly clairvoyant so without a screenshot showing settings and connections or not we have no idea what you see so can't advise with any degree of accuracy.
here are the pictures taken: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/my-psu-design-ripple-and-noise-with-picture-measurements/msg4520213/#msg4520213 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/my-psu-design-ripple-and-noise-with-picture-measurements/msg4520213/#msg4520213)
one of the images shows the loose probe and gnd readings
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anyone knows how to cancel out the noise of the probe before using it? I mean when the probe is not connected to anything... it still displays some waveform which I think affect real measurements.
Probably only when set to high sensitivity and it's mains frequency or some local noisy SMPS.
Just normal shit you need to work with or ignore.
the problem is that I need to measure power supply noise and ripple to below 10 mv which is why I need to null this.
so there is no solution or workaround?
Well we are hardly clairvoyant so without a screenshot showing settings and connections or not we have no idea what you see so can't advise with any degree of accuracy.
here are the pictures taken: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/my-psu-design-ripple-and-noise-with-picture-measurements/msg4520213/#msg4520213 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/my-psu-design-ripple-and-noise-with-picture-measurements/msg4520213/#msg4520213)
one of the images shows the loose probe and gnd readings
this is a 18mvpp square wave at 50hz, i tried to match what i saw in the first picture, and it doesn't look as noisy as yours, this of course not being probing a power supply but connecting a coaxial cable directly to a waveform generator, and the other image is what it looks like when a probe is connected straight to ground through the ground clip of the probe, so perhaps the noise really is there?
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anyone knows how to cancel out the noise of the probe before using it? I mean when the probe is not connected to anything... it still displays some waveform which I think affect real measurements.
Probably only when set to high sensitivity and it's mains frequency or some local noisy SMPS.
Just normal shit you need to work with or ignore.
the problem is that I need to measure power supply noise and ripple to below 10 mv which is why I need to null this.
so there is no solution or workaround?
Well we are hardly clairvoyant so without a screenshot showing settings and connections or not we have no idea what you see so can't advise with any degree of accuracy.
here are the pictures taken: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/my-psu-design-ripple-and-noise-with-picture-measurements/msg4520213/#msg4520213 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/my-psu-design-ripple-and-noise-with-picture-measurements/msg4520213/#msg4520213)
one of the images shows the loose probe and gnd readings
this is a 18mvpp square wave at 50hz, i tried to match what i saw in the first picture, and it doesn't look as noisy as yours, this of course not being probing a power supply but connecting a coaxial cable directly to a waveform generator, and the other image is what it looks like when a probe is connected straight to ground through the ground clip of the probe, so perhaps the noise really is there?
well you setup is very clean then, of course you will get clean results. mine is messy and the nature of the design also noisy to some degree... but even if the probe is not connected to anything it will still show noise as seen in pictures.
i am using the alligator clip ground not the spring one... i will try using the spring one to get cleaner results soon. what do you use and recommend?
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this is a 18mvpp square wave at 50hz, i tried to match what i saw in the first picture, and it doesn't look as noisy as yours, this of course not being probing a power supply but connecting a coaxial cable directly to a waveform generator, and the other image is what it looks like when a probe is connected straight to ground through the ground clip of the probe, so perhaps the noise really is there?
well you setup is very clean then, of course you will get clean results. mine is messy and the nature of the design also noisy to some degree... but even if the probe is not connected to anything it will still show noise as seen in pictures.
i am using the alligator clip ground not the spring one... i will try using the spring one to get cleaner results soon. what do you use and recommend?
yeah, that's preciesly my point, that perhaps it's not that the oscilloscope is erroneously showing you a nosiy trace, but maybe all that noise is actually part of the signal you're looking at? this because my tests show the 1022i is actually capable of displaying those cleaner traces. Have you unplugged everything else around it for the grounding test? for the picture of it grounded with the probe, i also used the long aligator clip on the probe tip to ground it, and it wasn't that noisy
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this is a 18mvpp square wave at 50hz, i tried to match what i saw in the first picture, and it doesn't look as noisy as yours, this of course not being probing a power supply but connecting a coaxial cable directly to a waveform generator, and the other image is what it looks like when a probe is connected straight to ground through the ground clip of the probe, so perhaps the noise really is there?
well you setup is very clean then, of course you will get clean results. mine is messy and the nature of the design also noisy to some degree... but even if the probe is not connected to anything it will still show noise as seen in pictures.
i am using the alligator clip ground not the spring one... i will try using the spring one to get cleaner results soon. what do you use and recommend?
yeah, that's preciesly my point, that perhaps it's not that the oscilloscope is erroneously showing you a nosiy trace, but maybe all that noise is actually part of the signal you're looking at? this because my tests show the 1022i is actually capable of displaying those cleaner traces. Have you unplugged everything else around it for the grounding test? for the picture of it grounded with the probe, i also used the long aligator clip on the probe tip to ground it, and it wasn't that noisy
i have lots of devices connected to mains.
scope is connected to laptop via usb of course... and my circuit is a laptop charger 12v feeding my designed switching psu. i tried to separate everything to have it best as possible.
i will see if i can separate them more + post pics.
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I have question about this little toy :
is it still lacking the capability to trigger in single shot with time base over a certain values ?
I'm talking about the official Windows software available for download at Owon site.
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I suspect that it is still missing, below (I think) 50ms/div, where it switches to roll mode. That's unless they've copied florentbr's software, which allows single trigger right down to the slowest timebase settings. It's quite a long time since I've used the stock OWON s/w though, so I can't say for certain.
Irrc you can probably download the s/w without having the scope. It should display a message when you set the timebase to 50ms/div or slower.
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I suspect that it is still missing, below (I think) 50ms/div, where it switches to roll mode. That's unless they've copied florentbr's software, which allows single trigger right down to the slowest timebase settings. It's quite a long time since I've used the stock OWON s/w though, so I can't say for certain.
Irrc you can probably download the s/w without having the scope. It should display a message when you set the timebase to 50ms/div or slower.
Hi Gyro, thank you very much for your prompt answer, i'll try that path.
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Hello friends.
Can you kindly tell me if it is possible to convert vds 1022 into the isolated version using this?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Adum3160-Digital-Signal-Audio-Power-Isolator-Usb-To-Usb-Digital-Isolator/1704951055?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101260823 (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Adum3160-Digital-Signal-Audio-Power-Isolator-Usb-To-Usb-Digital-Isolator/1704951055?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=101260823)
I know some users here have used something like this but not this exact product.
Is there any disadvantages or problems with using the usb isolator?
Will i need to change any parts on it's board?
Thank you.
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The VDS1022 will work with USB isolators containing the ADUM3106, that's what is included inside the I version. Unfortunately though, the Walmart isolator only has a 1W rated isolated power converter (the one inside the VDS1022I is rated at 2W), so it won't be able to supply enough current to power it.
You could maybe arrange something with a USB 'Y' cable to supply extra power to the VDS after the isolator, maybe from a USB power bank, but you would be better looking for a USB isolator with at least 2W power capability.
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The VDS1022 will work with USB isolators containing the ADUM3106, that's what is included inside the I version. Unfortunately though, the Walmart isolator only has a 1W rated isolated power converter (the one inside the VDS1022I is rated at 2W), so it won't be able to supply enough current to power it.
You could maybe arrange something with a USB 'Y' cable to supply extra power to the VDS after the isolator, maybe from a USB power bank, but you would be better looking for a USB isolator with at least 2W power capability.
very informing answer mate.thanks alot
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AHello .
i noticed that when i set my time division for more than 2us/div,the sampling rate goes lower probably because of the 5k memory.i need to work with 50s/div so i have a sampling rate of 5KS/s! Now if i divide 5000by 10 i get just 500hz max bandwith.is this right or i am hopefully very wrong?
I am worried and have serious buyer remorse now. I live in iran and bought it for 150 dollars because of sanctions and couldn't afford to buy better one.i need 50ms/div to see what is going on for one second but now i have just 500hz :'(.i use it to measure the ripple and noise of the phone chargers that use smps. i could just use my pc soundcard and get better results if i am understanding it right.please help . I hope i am wrong about 500hz bandwidth. i am really confused
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with a sample rate of 5k samples per second, theoretically you could see unaliased waveforms up to 2500hz, but the software for the owon doesn't have anything but linear interpolation, so you see just the 2 samples per period and that looks like a triangle wave, like in the first picture.
The other pictures show how it would look like with a 2500hz sine wave at 50ms/, 500hz at 50ms/ and zoomed in, and 50hz at 50ms. At such slow timebase, why would you want to look at frequencies above 50hz? that would provide you nothing that you could work with visually. ripple is repetitive, so you could set the timebase such that it matches the frequency of interest, and if there is a high frequency riding on a much lower frequency ripple, it being repetitive, you could get the information you need by measuring each separately and not in the same acquisition.
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AHello .
i noticed that when i set my time division for more than 2us/div,the sampling rate goes lower probably because of the 5k memory.i need to work with 50s/div so i have a sampling rate of 5KS/s! Now if i divide 5000by 10 i get just 500hz max bandwith.is this right or i am hopefully very wrong?
I am worried and have serious buyer remorse now. I live in iran and bought it for 150 dollars because of sanctions and couldn't afford to buy better one.i need 50ms/div to see what is going on for one second but now i have just 500hz :'(.i use it to measure the ripple and noise of the phone chargers that use smps. i could just use my pc soundcard and get better results if i am understanding it right.please help . I hope i am wrong about 500hz bandwidth. i am really confused
Don't you think it's rather early to be getting serious buyer's remorse? It sounds as if you need to brush up on some scope fundamentals first [ Edit: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/oscilloscope-training-class-(long)/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/oscilloscope-training-class-(long)/) ], particularly as you are planning to show meaningful results on your website. SMPS chargers run at 10s of kHz, so you're probably going to be looking in the 100us/div or faster. Their ripple and noise doesn't extend into the seconds timeframe. 50s/div is extremely slow (chart recorder) speed, so of course you're not going to be able to resolve high frequencies as that that sort of timebase. If, for example, you are looking for output voltage variation with load, you would be better with a DMM so that you can note the voltage reading as you adjust the load current, it's a different test from ripple and noise though.
You are working at a very low price point with difficult availability ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/need-an-oscilloscope-on-a-very-low-budget/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/need-an-oscilloscope-on-a-very-low-budget/) ). I remeber that even the VDS1022 was a financial stretch above your original goal, in fact you couldn't stretch to the galvanically isolated 'I' version (from PM). You can't expect multi Mega-samples of buffer at that price point. You do have an adequate tool for your stated (and general) purpose though.
P.S. The inputs of PC soundcards are AC coupled, there's no sound (just atmospheric pressure) at DC.
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Hello and thank you both gyro and Anthocyanina for your helpful and informative answers.
Yes friends having buying remorse was wrong .after I worked more with this really worthy device, i saw that my time frame was not a good example but I needed it to see a wider picture.it seems that even If I had giga samples, the wide time frame still made it difficult to see the higher bandwidth anomalies and in the end I had to zoom and go into smaller timeframe anyway. unfortunately there is still limitations In most of the timeframes but i think the device is well balanced enough because the sample rates that are pre configured related to the selected timeframe, still show the would be visible to the eye bandwidth signals anyway. for example If I use a gan charger with 2 mhz switching frequency, to see ripple/noise I have to go into the filed of us/div any way right? please correct me if I am wrong.
a complete sine wave needs two times sample rate but square wave 10 times right?
do I understand the samples formula correctly?
in measuring ripples, it is more important to see VRMS and VPP than the full shape of the anomalies.
as a test to understand the relation of sample rate and bandwidth,i used my ipod to output signals from 50hz to 22khz and limited the sampling to 250s/s through timeframe.it still detected the frequency of 22khz and showed the frequency right if I put the trigger button on the section of the screen where the signal was shown. how with 250s/s the device still shows the frequency and amplitude of 22khz with good precision ?
Shouldn’t the 22khz frequency need at least 44k/s sampling?
What am I understanding wrong?
Considering the above results are right , will the device still show the VRMS and VPP of 5 to 10mhz even when I use 50ms/div ? I will lose the shape but who will see it any way in such a big time frame . the ac voltage output is the most important factor. We just want to know if it is beyond a threshold or not.it seems it will still show and detect it with good precision right?
it’s ripple and noise measurement just to review not to make an adapter in the end.
BTW, Do you know of anyway to use pc memory for more sampling rate the way hantek 6022be seem able to? i know hantek sucks in every other way ofcourse .
there was hantek 6074bd also with way better speces that I could somehow stretch myself into buying but i was so doubtful of the brand and had serious doubts about it’s noise floor that I just forgot it. i saw people here don’t trust hantek at all for very good and justified reasons.
looking forward to your informative answers. thanks again.
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for example If I use a gan charger with 2 mhz switching frequency, to see ripple/noise I have to go into the filed of us/div any way right? please correct me if I am wrong.
To see things at 2MHz, yes, you would want to be in the 1us/ or faster (500ns/ 200ns/...) setting.
a complete sine wave needs two times sample rate but square wave 10 times right?
do I understand the samples formula correctly?
10 samples per period, for a square wave, would let you see the general shape of the square wave, yes
in measuring ripples, it is more important to see VRMS and VPP than the full shape of the anomalies.
I think both the shape, amplitude and frequency of the waveform will give you important information.
as a test to understand the relation of sample rate and bandwidth,i used my ipod to output signals from 50hz to 22khz and limited the sampling to 250s/s through timeframe.it still detected the frequency of 22khz and showed the frequency right if I put the trigger button on the section of the screen where the signal was shown. how with 250s/s the device still shows the frequency and amplitude of 22khz with good precision ?
Shouldn’t the 22khz frequency need at least 44k/s sampling?
What am I understanding wrong?
This i think it's the frequency counter being somewhat separate from the acquisition system? purely a guess, might be completely wrong about this, but i have other scopes that do mention working this way, so maybe the owon does too.
Considering the above results are right , will the device still show the VRMS and VPP of 5 to 10mhz even when I use 50ms/div ? I will lose the shape but who will see it any way in such a big time frame . the ac voltage output is the most important factor. We just want to know if it is beyond a threshold or not.it seems it will still show and detect it with good precision right?
It will likely not show the proper amplitude because it will definitely alias and you don't know where in the period the samples will be taken.
it’s ripple and noise measurement just to review not to make an adapter in the end.
BTW, Do you know of anyway to use pc memory for more sampling rate the way hantek 6022be seem able to? i know hantek sucks in every other way ofcourse .
there was hantek 6074bd also with way better speces that I could somehow stretch myself into buying but i was so doubtful of the brand and had serious doubts about it’s noise floor that I just forgot it. i saw people here don’t trust hantek at all for very good and justified reasons.
looking forward to your informative answers. thanks again.
I don't think there's a way to get it to use more memory, I think all the processing is done in fpga and it just streams the processed acquisition to the computer for display, but also might be wrong about this. maybe with recording? maybe with florentbr's python software?
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Thanks a lot my friend you helped me alot.
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Ah, yes, something mentioned Anthocyanina, and many times previously in the thread, you should definitely try running florentbr's software as an alternative to the supplied Owon s/w. It has many enhancements and shortcuts that make a big difference... https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022 (https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022) Be sure to scroll down the the Requirements section - you need a Java runtime environment installed too.
Another thought is that you could try running the VDS1022 in Spectrum Analyser mode / window. This will allow you to display all of the frequency peaks in the SMPS output noise (ie. look at the output rail in the frequency domain as well as the time domain).
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thanks mate i have already tried the florentbr mod but i couldn't change sampling rate.do you think if i learn python i can use the florentbr's python api to change sampling rate?
I used fft if you mean that, one strange thing is that on florentbr version it shows nothing and on the official ver it only works on db but not vrms .any thoughts?
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No, Florent's s/w doesn't allow you to change the sampling rate independent of timebase, it uses the same (most appropriate?) rates as the Owon s/w. Sorry, I'm no expert on python scripts. Maybe you could post a question on his github page. The FFT works fine for me in his s/w, are you sure you have it turned on in the Math (fx) menu entry? I can't think of anything else.
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ok mate thanks yes it is on.
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I just picked up the Multicomp Pro MP720016 (rebranded vds1022) at Newark.com for $56 US. I don't need one, but thought it would be fun to play with and the price was right. The isolated model was more than twice as much so I didn't spring for it.
I have attached a few photos of the board. It is labeled VDS1022_V2.1, with a date code 2021.07.12, so is slightly older than the board posted by ajlenze. It has a weird hand-soldered wire on the top-side of the board - not sure what that is about. I also have measured the footprint for the through-hole DC-DC converter in case folks are interested, but I am probably not going to upgrade this thing.
Anyway, I have only spent a couple of hours with the scope and it seems to work as advertised. At least with 1 kHz sinusoids it meets the voltage accuracy spec. Now I just need to learn SCPI programming, or at least how to use florentbr's API.
jason
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I just picked up the Multicomp Pro MP720016 (rebranded vds1022) at Newark.com for $56 US. I don't need one, but thought it would be fun to play with and the price was right. The isolated model was more than twice as much so I didn't spring for it.
-snip
Gigadevice STM32 clone Inside !
It's time that I wonder if those MCUs are actually illegal or not, probably best choice for rogue states under embargo.
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That's a good price!
They're probably chasing market price and availability with the CPU clone, they've been hit by Chipagedon several times on the FPGA, I see it is a Gowin in that one. The S/W has had to support an increasing list of FPGA images. The front-end and ADC look as they should, even retaining the video sync decoder. I don't know what the wire jumper is, it looks power rail related.
Converting to the Isolated version actually wouldn't be a big deal. U37 is an ADuM3160, you would need to remove (and clean up after) the four 0R resistors under the footprint. The isolated DC-DC footprint has changed. The original used a TI DCP020505 5V - 5V 2W part but the footprint has changed to what looks lile a more comodity through hole part*. It would be easy to attach something suitable onto the through hole footprint, maybe go for 2.5W for a bit of leeway. Apart from that, the larger 0R resistors linking the two ground planes and +5V (R105 and R115) would need to be removed to complete the isolation. Maybe someone with a late model isolated Owon or Multicomp version could identify the DC-DC for you.
Edit: * Maybe a Chinese Mornsun / Tesla B0505S (-2W or -3W) variant from a quick search.
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That's a good price!
They're probably chasing market price and availability with the CPU clone, they've been hit by Chipagedon several times on the FPGA, I see it is a Gowin in that one. The S/W has had to support an increasing list of FPGA images. The front-end and ADC look as they should, even retaining the video sync decoder. I don't know what the wire jumper is, it looks power rail related.
Converting to the Isolated version actually wouldn't be a big deal. U37 is an ADuM3160, you would need to remove (and clean up after) the four 0R resistors under the footprint. The isolated DC-DC footprint has changed. The original used a TI DCP020505 5V - 5V 2W part but the footprint has changed to what looks lile a more comodity through hole part*. It would be easy to attach something suitable onto the through hole footprint, maybe go for 2.5W for a bit of leeway. Apart from that, the larger 0R resistors linking the two ground planes and +5V (R105 and R115) would need to be removed to complete the isolation. Maybe someone with a late model isolated Owon or Multicomp version could identify the DC-DC for you.
Edit: * Maybe a Chinese Mornsun / Tesla B0505S (-2W or -3W) variant from a quick search.
It does look like that part would fit - but it might be close in the height tolerance. The footprint is actually large enough that it could probably be installed on its side with the leads bent 90 degrees. I do think I would be more likely to just get an external isolator and perhaps upgrade the converter if needed. Using one of the cheap USB power meters it looks like mine never draws more than about 300 mA, so the 2W versions should probably be fine.
Yeah - the price was great, which is the only reason I picked one up just to play with. I already have a couple of Picoscopes that cover my needs. Newark also has good prices for their re-branded vds2062/vds3102 ($144/$166 US); too bad they have no features (only 2k FFT, no filtering options, no high-res, no serial decoding, no streaming mode, ...).
jason
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Yes, from the footprint silkscreen it looks as if the DC-DC is intended to be fitted flat - the pins are on one (that) edge of the package anyway so maybe there is a pre-bent option in volume. The problem with external isolators is finding one with sufficient power rating, most are 1W at most.
Agreed, the VDS1022 is the only one that really matches its price point, and the only one with galvanic isolation available (unless ethernet connected on the higher end ones).
P.S. The reason I hedged on the wattage is that mine is an early one with a switcher rather than the big linear reg (U25?), so it has a lower consumption than some others have reported.
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Hello,
I am trying to learn how to control my MP720016 from python 3 (using Spyder under Windows 10) and am having problems even connecting to it properly. My computer and programming knowledge/skills are pretty poor, so are almost certainly the cause! Any suggestions folks have would be greatly appreciated.
Here is an example Python session that fails using florentbr's API with an error indicating the device isn't present or locked by another application, followed by a few commands showing that the device is connected but that I don't have permissions to use it. I get the same results whether or not the scope software is up and running, and when it is, whether or not I have opened the SCPI Console. Likewise, if I do not attempt to use the API but first just try the usb commands I get the same permission error. After trying all of these variations, I re-tried them when running python as administrator (in case that was the permission error), and it did not make a difference.
In [1]: from vds1022 import *
In [2]: dev = VDS1022(debug=0)
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\AppData\Local\Temp\ipykernel_6696\630509923.py", line 1, in <module>
dev = VDS1022(debug=0)
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\vds1022\vds1022.py", line 1403, in __init__
raise USBError("USB device %4X:%4X not found or locked by another application." % (
USBError: [Errno None] USB device 5345:1234 not found or locked by another application.
In [3]: import usb.core
In [4]: import usb.util
In [5]: dd = usb.core.find(idVendor=0x5345, idProduct=0x1234)
In [6]: dd.set_configuration()
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\AppData\Local\Temp\ipykernel_6696\2171008298.py", line 1, in <module>
dd.set_configuration()
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\usb\core.py", line 915, in set_configuration
self._ctx.managed_set_configuration(self, configuration)
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\usb\core.py", line 113, in wrapper
return f(self, *args, **kwargs)
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\usb\core.py", line 158, in managed_set_configuration
self.managed_open()
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\usb\core.py", line 113, in wrapper
return f(self, *args, **kwargs)
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\usb\core.py", line 131, in managed_open
self.handle = self.backend.open_device(self.dev)
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\usb\backend\libusb1.py", line 804, in open_device
return _DeviceHandle(dev)
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\usb\backend\libusb1.py", line 652, in __init__
_check(_lib.libusb_open(self.devid, byref(self.handle)))
File "C:\Users\tjm_f\Anaconda3\lib\site-packages\usb\backend\libusb1.py", line 604, in _check
raise USBError(_strerror(ret), ret, _libusb_errno[ret])
USBError: [Errno 13] Access denied (insufficient permissions)
In [7]: print(dd)
DEVICE ID 5345:1234 on Bus 001 Address 009 =================
bLength : 0x12 (18 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x1 Device
bcdUSB : 0x200 USB 2.0
bDeviceClass : 0x0 Specified at interface
bDeviceSubClass : 0x0
bDeviceProtocol : 0x0
bMaxPacketSize0 : 0x40 (64 bytes)
idVendor : 0x5345
idProduct : 0x1234
bcdDevice : 0x100 Device 1.0
iManufacturer : 0x1 Error Accessing String
iProduct : 0x2 Error Accessing String
iSerialNumber : 0x3 Error Accessing String
bNumConfigurations : 0x1
CONFIGURATION 1: 100 mA ==================================
bLength : 0x9 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x2 Configuration
wTotalLength : 0x29 (41 bytes)
bNumInterfaces : 0x1
bConfigurationValue : 0x1
iConfiguration : 0x0
bmAttributes : 0x80 Bus Powered
bMaxPower : 0x32 (100 mA)
INTERFACE 0: Physical ==================================
bLength : 0x9 (9 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x4 Interface
bInterfaceNumber : 0x0
bAlternateSetting : 0x0
bNumEndpoints : 0x2
bInterfaceClass : 0x5 Physical
bInterfaceSubClass : 0x0
bInterfaceProtocol : 0x0
iInterface : 0x0
ENDPOINT 0x81: Bulk IN ===============================
bLength : 0x7 (7 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x5 Endpoint
bEndpointAddress : 0x81 IN
bmAttributes : 0x2 Bulk
wMaxPacketSize : 0x40 (64 bytes)
bInterval : 0x20
ENDPOINT 0x1: Bulk OUT ===============================
bLength : 0x7 (7 bytes)
bDescriptorType : 0x5 Endpoint
bEndpointAddress : 0x1 OUT
bmAttributes : 0x2 Bulk
wMaxPacketSize : 0x40 (64 bytes)
bInterval : 0x20
I have also included a screenshot of the device manager, in case that gives some extra info.
Thanks!
Jason
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Hello,
I am trying to learn how to control my MP720016 from python 3 (using Spyder under Windows 10) and am having problems even connecting to it properly. My computer and programming knowledge/skills are pretty poor, so are almost certainly the cause! Any suggestions folks have would be greatly appreciated.
...
I think (but am not at all sure) that the issue is that the way I was using libusb in python, it was not happy that the Owon software needs to be up and running so Python does not have exclusive ownership. I take that back. I am probably misunderstanding something simple and fundamental, since I never was able to get florentbr's API to work. As I wrote before, my computer/software knowledge and skills are sucky.
Anyway, I found that using sockets is a pretty easy way to send SCPI commands to the scope. Of course, the Owon software (or florentbr's improved version) needs to be running, and the scpi console opened up with a successful setting of port 5188.
Here is code I used to setup the scope to capture a 1 MHz, 564 mV peak-peak sine-wave I generated with a tinySA. I hard-coded everything for now, just to get it working.
# play with sockets for owon vds1022
# everyting hardcoded for now
import socket
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt
import numpy as np
dg = socket.socket(socket.AF_INET, socket.SOCK_STREAM)
dg.connect( (socket.gethostname(),5188))
def sendMessage(mes):
dg.sendto(mes.encode(encoding='utf-8'),(socket.gethostname(),5188))
tmp = dg.recv(200000)
return tmp
def printReply(temp):
print(temp.decode('utf-8'))
# get ID, just for fun
tmp = sendMessage('*IDN?')
printReply(tmp)
# setup channel 1. hardcoded for now
tmp = sendMessage(':TIMebase:SCALe 500ns')
printReply(tmp)
tmp = sendMessage(':CHANnel1:COUPling AC')
printReply(tmp)
tmp = sendMessage(':CHANnel1:PROBe X1')
printReply(tmp)
tmp = sendMessage(':CHANnel1:SCALe 0.1')
printReply(tmp)
# setup trigger
tmp = sendMessage(':TRIGger:TYPE SINGle')
printReply(tmp)
tmp = sendMessage(':TRIGger:MODE AUTO')
printReply(tmp)
tmp = sendMessage(':TRIGger:SINGle EDGE')
printReply(tmp)
tmp = sendMessage(':TRIGger:SINGle:EDGE:SOURce CH1')
printReply(tmp)
tmp = sendMessage(':TRIGger:SINGle:EDGE:SLOPe RISE')
printReply(tmp)
tmp = sendMessage(':TRIGger:SINGle:EDGE:LEVel 0')
printReply(tmp)
# get channel 1 data. Not sure why the first
# call only returns 4 bytes, second returns 1000 bytes, and
# all subsequent give 1004. Everything still hardcoded
dat = sendMessage('*ADC? CH1')
dat = sendMessage('*ADC? CH1')
dat = sendMessage('*ADC? CH1')
# convert data to volts. Note ther are
# nominally 25 counts per division.
rawdat = dat[4:]
volt = np.arange(len(rawdat), dtype=float)
for ii in range(len(rawdat)):
tmpdat = np.double(rawdat[ii])
if tmpdat>125: # voltage is negative
tmpdat = tmpdat -256 # corrected. using 255 is wrong...
volt[ii] = tmpdat * 0.1 / 25.0
t = np.arange(len(rawdat))/100.0e6
plt.plot(t, volt)
dg.close()
I have attached plots from both florentbr's version of the software, as well as from this Python script. So I finally feel like I am up and running, after many hours of banging my head against the wall! But at least I feel like I learned a lot (have never used sockets or libusb before).
Next up is to control both the scope and a simple arduino/AD9833 function generator to automate Bode plots...
Jason
EDIT: I thought I would share that the device ID gives both the Owon and Multicomp Pro model numbers, along with the serial number that is on the bottom of the physical device.
In [11]: printReply(sendMessage('*IDN?'))
owon,VDS1022,MP7200162133088,V3.0.0
I am not sure what the 'V3.0.0' refers to.
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Hello, thank you all for the information in this thread. I want to ask you a couple of questions.
a) This spec has mistakenly led me to think that the channels were isolated from each other. I guess I did well to check all the information on this oscilloscope before pulling the trigger. I checked the first 10 pages of this thread, now I know this is not the case. So thanks again. I'm wondering what it means:
Channel isolation 50Hz : 100 : 1, 10MHz : 40 : 1
b) Work with the SMPSU. I am aware of the (debated) convenience of using an isolation transformer to float the DUT. And I know the recommendation is to use a differential probe. I'm leaning towards a MicSig DP750-100. However, while reviewing the Testec TT-SI 7002 differential probe, I saw a warning about it "Connect only to a grounded measuring device!". Could you confirm/deny that a differential probe can be used with VDS1022i?
https://www.testec.de/en/products/product-categories/differential-probes/ (https://www.testec.de/en/products/product-categories/differential-probes/)
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Hi,
Yes, as you have found out from the thread, the VDS1022I provides USB isolation, for the purpose of protecting the computer USB port from accidental high current injection and breaking ground loops to reduce noise. It is not intended for elevating the ground clips to a high voltage. As you have found, both channel BNC shells (and the case) are all common. You can get special purpose scopes with galvanic isolation between individual channels but their price is far greater than the entry level Owon. They will also show isolation voltage limits and appropriate CAT ratings clearly on the front panel.
Channel isolation 50Hz : 100 : 1, 10MHz : 40 : 1
Maybe a bit of Chinese language confusion. This would more commonly be called a 'crosstalk' spec. These are shown on most scope specs (and stereo audio equipment come to that). It is a measure of the rejection of a signal on one channel being visible at an attenuated level on the other trace. This is determined by internal construction - PCB layout, the physical spacing and isolation of sensitive front-end stages, screening cans etc.
Yes, a high voltage differential probe (or two, if you are using both channels simultaneously to monitor different parts of the circuit) is the safest way to go (at a cost). Differential probes do rely on a defined ground reference for signal integrity (although I think think they would be unlikely to cause a shock risk if floated due to their high common mode imput impedance). The simplest way would be to ground one of the BNC shells (the third 'multi' one for instance) or the ground tag on the 1kHz probe cal output. Isolation transformers are controversial (as you say), they do allow you to bring high potential points of a circuit (live chassis for instance) to ground, but at the expense of getting bitten by other parts of the circuit and defeating RCD type mains shock protection. The general rule for working on high voltage circuitry like SMPSs is know where your grounds are.
If you are wanting to monitor a single differential signal (that is within the voltage limits of the scope probes) one way is to use the 'poor man's' differential setup, where you use both probes. Remove or carefully insulate their ground clips (depending on probes), set the scope to 'Add' and one channel to 'Invert', and ensure that both V/div settings are the same. and use both probe tips. This configuration uses both scope channels as a differential amplifier. The resulting trace will be noisier than a true differential probe but may well get the job done. In this case too, you should ground the scope to prevent it from floating to the mid-point voltage of the two probe inputs (albeit at high impedance).
Finally, if working on higher voltage circuits, it would be wise to invest in some dedicated x10 (or even x100) probes instead of the common switchable x1 /x10 probes, or physically block the switch. It is all too easy to accidentally flip them to X1, damaging the scope input and potentially posing a shock hazard. It's good practice to always use x10, the only exception being low frequency very low level signals where you are trying to squeeze the last drop of sensitivity - again it's too easy to forget to switch them back. Beware of Chinese probe voltage specs and observe the de-rating curve - voltage capability drops off with increasing frequency (that applies to all scope probes). Scopes and probes, unless specialist high voltage models, are typcally CAT I rated.
I hope this helps.
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Yep, it does help. Thank you, man
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Channel isolation 50Hz : 100 : 1, 10MHz : 40 : 1
Maybe a bit of Chinese language confusion. This would more commonly be called a 'crosstalk' spec. These are shown on most scope specs (and stereo audio equipment come to that). It is a measure of the rejection of a signal on one channel being visible at an attenuated level on the other trace. This is determined by internal construction - PCB layout, the physical spacing and isolation of sensitive front-end stages, screening cans etc.
I have not done a systematic characterization of the crosstalk on my vds1022, but it seems the performance is much better than that spec. For example, attached is a screenshot showing a 4Vpp 10MHz signal in channel 1, and I cannot see a 10 MHz signal on channel 2 regardless of which vertical scale I select.
I have seen this exact same spec on a number of different Owon scopes, both benchtop and USB. Perhaps they re-use the same front-end designs which may result in the same spec, but they may just pick numbers that any reasonable design can easily meet.
Jason
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Agreed, I've never seen any significant crosstalk. The spec does seem pleasingly pessimistic.
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[attach=1]
It is labeled VDS1022_V2.1, with a date code 2021.07.12, so is slightly older than the board posted by ajlenze. It has a weird hand-soldered wire on the top-side of the board - not sure what that is about.
Got mine last month from CPC Farnell UK, 2021.11.01 v2.3, mine does not have that mod, different PCB traces as you see.
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I have been playing with SCPI control of my MP720016 (rebadged vds1022) using sockets in python, and have found something odd with the sampling that I am hoping someone else already understands.
The short story is that I am only receiving 4k samples when I am expecting 5k. Testing with signals of known frequencies has convinced me that it is resampling the data to 80% of the nominal ADC sample rate. My guess is that inside the box it is resampling to the lower rate since it is sufficient for display on a screen, and that it is sending that resampled data when I request it over SCPI. Perhaps it doesn't even keep the original samples in memory, so this may be the best in can do?
The behavior when expecting less than 5k samples is easier to understand. When I am expecting exactly 1k, 2k, or 4k samples (at 500ns/div, 1us/div and 2us/div ), it indeed provides the exact samples I am expecting. And when I am expecting fewer than 1k samples, it is clearly upsampling in order to send 1k samples,
Has anyone else found this kind of behavior? Also, do you get the same result using florentbr's API? I still haven't gotten it to work, since I get permission errors all the time. I am sure I am using it wrong...
Thanks,
Jason
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I have been playing with SCPI control of my MP720016 (rebadged vds1022) using sockets in python, and have found something odd with the sampling that I am hoping someone else already understands.
The short story is that I am only receiving 4k samples when I am expecting 5k. Testing with signals of known frequencies has convinced me that it is resampling the data to 80% of the nominal ADC sample rate.
Attached are a few plots to show what these resampled signals look like. The one at 100 MS/s ideally should have 4k samples, so no resampling is going on. The signal looks fine. The remaining plots are all cases where it has done the resampling from 5k to 4k samples. The signal looks worse with fewer samples per cycle. It is weird that there is asymmetric behavior for positive and negative slopes. To me it almost looks like it is shuffling the order of the samples when the slope is negative...
Do folks see this using florentbr's API?
By the way, I see the same behavior for several signal generators, so it has nothing to do with that. These plots were made using a BK Precision 4013DDS as the source.
Jason
edit: sorry for the weird order of the plots. I cannot figure out how to make plots show up in a desired order with this interface. I am technologically challenged!
edit2: I just pulled the scope apart and was able to verify that the clock signals to the ADC really are at 100 MHz, so they are not cheating that way.
edit3: I sent this to Owon to see what they say. Perhaps there is a firmware update or something that will fix this.
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Attached are some measurements of the scope frequency response; the example here is for the 5 mV/div vertical scale with an input of about 16 mV RMS (45 mVpp). I used a tinySA as the source, which has an output spec of +/- 2dB over 100kHz-350MHz, so these are not high precision measurements. The setup is:
tinySA->sma cable->sma to bnc adapter->50-Ohm feed-through->scope channel 1 input
I used a python script to automate this, using SCPI for the scope and the simple serial interface that the tinySA supports. The scope was in the 2us/div setting for these measurements, so sends 4000 raw ADC samples captured at 100MS/s, without any of the resampling or related artifacts I showed in the prior post. For each frequency I estimated the voltages two ways, 1) using the scope's built-in RMS voltage measurements, and 2) using Fourier analysis on the 4000 raw ADC samples.
The first thing that popped out at me when I saw these measurements was just how low the crosstalk is below 100 MHz. Not bad!
Given the shallow slope of the curve and the measurement uncertainties, I don't think we can get a good estimate of the -3 dB point from this curve, but the response above the nominal 25 MHz bandwidth is interesting. In particular, it looks like at around 100 MHz that there is still ~10 dB of margin for easily seeing this 45 mVpp signal, indicating that with a good x10 probe this scope may be capable of seeing a 150-200 mVpp ~100 MHz signal (aliased down, of course) in the 50 mV/div setting. A practical reason why I might care is that I like to do discrete audio electronic design, and it is possible to get parasitic oscillations in emitter-followers at these high frequencies (the Art of Electronics X-chapters shows a 2n3904 with 3Vpp oscillation at 90MHz). This scope is not a very good tool for seeing these things, but it isn't completely blind either.
This was mostly just me having fun learning to control the scope over scpi, but thought other folks might be interested in seeing the output.
Jason
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The first thing that popped out at me when I saw these measurements was just how low the crosstalk is below 100 MHz. Not bad!
Given the shallow slope of the curve and the measurement uncertainties, I don't think we can get a good estimate of the -3 dB point from this curve, but the response above the nominal 25 MHz bandwidth is interesting.
Why these difficulties with measurements, if the frequency band for this device has been known for a long time.Anything above 32-34 MHz turns this oscilloscope into a simple indicator? ;)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg2771522/#msg2771522 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg2771522/#msg2771522)
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The first thing that popped out at me when I saw these measurements was just how low the crosstalk is below 100 MHz. Not bad!
Given the shallow slope of the curve and the measurement uncertainties, I don't think we can get a good estimate of the -3 dB point from this curve, but the response above the nominal 25 MHz bandwidth is interesting.
Why these difficulties with measurements, if the frequency band for this device has been known for a long time.Anything above 32-34 MHz turns this oscilloscope into a simple indicator? ;)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg2771522/#msg2771522 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg2771522/#msg2771522)
Yes, I know that the bandwidth has been tested over and over by multiple people. I should have referenced that in my post. All I was trying to say in that quote is that people shouldn’t grab the -3dB intercept on my plot and think it is an accurate estimate; my signal source has too much amplitude uncertainty (and I did not calibrate it in any way).
Edit: to be more specific, if the tinySA amplitude really had +/- 2dB of error in this measurement, then the curve indicates the 3-dB bandwidth might be between about 25MHz and 60MHz.
Perhaps I am the only one interested in seeing a frequency sweep, even this crude one, but it won’t be the first time someone posts something that very few people care about.
Jason
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Gyro, right at the first post mentioned oversampling.
Google "oversampling adc for higher resolution"
By oversampling and decimating we should be able to slighly improve the resolution. With various assumptions, but still.
Even simply taking the 5k buffer, average 16 samples we should get to 10 bit.
Ideally this would be done in the FPGA. I assume schematic/firmware/FPGA source is unavailable?
As a PC workaround for a repetitive signal we could take multiple buffers at different (overlapping?) trigger delay times, align and combine them and build a much bigger sample buffer and then as another step improve the resolution.
Is 12 bit by averaging 256 samples or even 14 bit by averaging 4096 samples possible? We may need to calibrate the ADC levels.
Of course this only works on slowly changing signals.
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How can I monitor battery charge/discharge over 24 hours?
Or if not can anyone provide pointers on how modify software?
I know this could be considered logging, but I could do it when I had a picoscope, and I assume the Hantek 6022be could do it. But what I have is a VDS1022i.
This is related to my previous post about improving resolution.
For example capture a frame every second, average and decimate to get nominal 14 bit resolution. Store samples in a buffer that could be scanned like the cheap logic analysers or picoscope.
Ideally as a built in function.
I understand that there are limitations like voltages drifing, ADC non linearity etc. But I can probably improve voltage stability. The ability to calibrate the ADC might be helpful. For example by charging up a 1000uF and letting it discharge through scope probe for a known slow signal. Possibly with a negative bias.
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For measuring battery voltage over a 24 hour period, a scope really isn't the tool for the job. As you say, there will inevitably be thermal drift and linearity issues, and while oversampling can increase apparent ADC resolution, trying to extract 14 bits out of an 8 bit ADC is way too optimistic. Pico are pretty good at this and they only manage a couple of extra bits in high resolution mode. I am lucky enough to own one of their old ADC216 native 16 bit low sample rate scopes and would never swap it for a newer one with resolution enhancement. Even that scope has a +/- 1% accuracy spec and thermal drift - fine for high resolution audio measurements but not so good for data logging.
Presumably you have already looked at florentbr's s/w. There are certainly possibilities for sample extraction there, but personally I would be looking at a datalogger rather than a scope. A cheap arduino or Pi Pico will give you a 12 bit native ADC resolution and would be much easier platforms for you to play around with oversampling etc. You could also very easily add on an external SPI high resolution ADC - even an LT 20 bit one, and have full control of reference stability etc. Just my opinion, but that's the direction I would follow for very slow, high resolution measurements.
Edit: Thinking back, you could probably use Scullcom's (6 1/2 digit) Arduino based mV meter project as a basis (massive overkill but fun!) and add logging via the USB virtual seral port...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxCW3pbvRi8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxCW3pbvRi8)
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How can I monitor battery charge/discharge over 24 hours?
And why do you need such a resolution and high accuracy when measuring battery charge /discharge?
For example, I use cheap ImaxB6 and LogView for these purposes :)
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How can I monitor battery charge/discharge over 24 hours?
And why do you need such a resolution and high accuracy when measuring battery charge /discharge?
For example, I use cheap ImaxB6 and LogView for these purposes :)
I don't actually need to log battery voltage at the moment. Though I would like the capability for off grid use (someone I know).
For VDS1022I it is more a case of what can we get out of it. And I may have a go at it if motivated.
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I did some tests to determine what sort of results we might get with averaging to improve resolution
Using an undercompensated scope probe I captured the peak of the 1kHz output at 10us per division.
I uploaded 4 images:
Sample is the CSV saved sample fed into libre office and charted.
Rolling average is the above sample with 16 elements averaged in libre office.
Rolling 64 is the above sample with 64 elements averaged together in libre office.
Scope average is the scope average using 16 elements of the same signal.
Clearly we are trading bandwidth and resolution.
The scope average function does not improve resolution, but keeps it at 8 bits. This could be improved.
Is anyone interested?
I assume Owon are not going to let us near the FPGA and firmware?
BTW I changed my account because I messed up changing to new email.
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I made another test.
Scope average is a repeat use of an earlier capture using scope average function with 16 elements.
Average 16samples was made by capturing 16 csvs in sample mode as csv and averaging them in libre calc.
It does, I think, show that the average function in software could be improved by using more bits.
There are a number of ifs and buts. Still it could still be useful.
Additional improvements are possible, for example detecting and displaying glitches outside of normal noise range.
If using rolling average, detecting and displaying changes outside the noise range.
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Of course, to go really mad we can do both.
16 samples averaged, then 64 elements averaged as rolling samples.
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Can anyone please give me some guidance on downloading the latest code into eclipse and debugging it.
I am familiar with eclipse, but not with java.
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Adrian's digital basement has a review of this scope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ec1n9ScGTw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ec1n9ScGTw)
The video triggering is clearly quite useful for the work he does, and really seemed to work. He hated the interface, and would have benefitted from spending a couple of extra minutes learning how to use it (especially keyboard shortcuts for horizontal/vertical scale adjustment) before diving in. Am interested in seeing the follow-up review he promised that will use florentbr's software.
jason
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and would have benefitted from spending a couple of extra minutes learning how to use it (especially keyboard shortcuts for horizontal/vertical scale adjustment) before diving in
I class that as a real world test,how many of us get something new and put it to one side whilst we read the manual from cover to cover ,compared to plugging it in and start stabbing random buttons?
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and would have benefitted from spending a couple of extra minutes learning how to use it (especially keyboard shortcuts for horizontal/vertical scale adjustment) before diving in
I class that as a real world test,how many of us get something new and put it to one side whilst we read the manual from cover to cover ,compared to plugging it in and start stabbing random buttons?
I have to say I have mixed feeling on this. Out of the box reviews are good, and this one particularly as he was actually using it on live circutry to do something useful, but it was kind of embarassing to watch him blundering around getting the basics of the UI (particularly the timebase). After 15 minutes he was getting there with just random stabbing, he would have got there in another few minutes (trigger edge, channel and measurement shortcuts etc). He hadn't even got as far as the keyboard shortcuts on even the stock s/w.
He did get the capabilities pretty well tied down though.
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and would have benefitted from spending a couple of extra minutes learning how to use it (especially keyboard shortcuts for horizontal/vertical scale adjustment) before diving in
I class that as a real world test,how many of us get something new and put it to one side whilst we read the manual from cover to cover ,compared to plugging it in and start stabbing random buttons?
Fair enough. I guess I have used picoscopes for so long that one of the first things I did when getting my rebadged vds1022 was learn the basic keyboard shortcuts. It literally took one minute, and there is a tab on the “tips” screen that pops up when you start the software so they are not exactly hard to find. Changing timebase or vertical scales with a menu/mouse is just too annoying to me.
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One thing that I forgot to mention last night - The isolated version choice early in the video, where he said that it would be useful for live chassis working! Granted, there is going to be a lot of exposed live metal in the DUT, but that's not a reason to add more to it by making the case and other exposed connections of the VDS live too! :o Granted, the USB isolation would still protect the PC but that's not the point.
Again, this comes from the 'out of the box' style review, but I would have expected him to do some basic research into safe use before suggesting it in a video review. Floating mains use is something that has come up a few times in the thread and each time it has to be explained why it wouldn't be a safe practice. I don't know if anyone has put a link to this thread in the comments yet (I'm not registered).
On the subject of the scroll wheel use. I'm not sure if it would be useful to have some default action for what happens if you scroll it while the pointer just generally hovering over the screen. It sounds as if some other USB scopes (and Saleae) change the timebase in this case, however it might be equally appropriate for it to change the vertical sensitivity, trace vertical position, trugger level, buffer position? etc. Hence the requirement to hover over the parameter in question when scrolling. I'm not sure if a general default 'general screen area' action would make it more intuitive? One for Florent I guess.
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and would have benefitted from spending a couple of extra minutes learning how to use it (especially keyboard shortcuts for horizontal/vertical scale adjustment) before diving in
I class that as a real world test,how many of us get something new and put it to one side whilst we read the manual from cover to cover ,compared to plugging it in and start stabbing random buttons?
I have to say I have mixed feeling on this. Out of the box reviews are good, and this one particularly as he was actually using it on live circutry to do something useful, but it was kind of embarassing to watch him blundering around getting the basics of the UI (particularly the timebase). After 15 minutes he was getting there with just random stabbing, he would have got there in another few minutes (trigger edge, channel and measurement shortcuts etc). He hadn't even got as far as the keyboard shortcuts on even the stock s/w.
He did get the capabilities pretty well tied down though.
The out of box experience is important to show people what to expect when purchasing the product and eventually catch a few pitfalls. However, when it enters the realm of "first poking at the equipment", editing and corrections (by means of captions, for example) is always warranted especially if you dislike or can't understand something as basic as moving the waveform or getting the timebase correct. What I think it happened is that he was initially miffed by the interface and this colored all the further explorations into it - especially the expectation that the entire interface should have worked with the mouse only.
One of the aspects that I disagree is the on screen waveform dragging, as it can be hard to figure out the pick point on the screen that will drag just one channel instead of the other - especially when waveforms overlap. I have seen UIs be extremely confusing on this as the number of displayed channels increase and it is not uncommon to find yourself dragging the wrong thing on the screen.
On the subject of the scroll wheel use. I'm not sure if it would be useful to have some default action for what happens if you scroll it while the pointer just generally hovering over the screen. It sounds as if some other USB scopes (and Saleae) change the timebase in this case, however it might be equally appropriate for it to change the vertical sensitivity, trace vertical position, trugger level, buffer position? etc. Hence the requirement to hover over the parameter in question when scrolling. I'm not sure if a general default 'general screen area' action would make it more intuitive? One for Florent I guess.
Florent's software uses the scroll wheel to change the timebase while the pointer is on the screen. However, I would love to see it take a different action if Ctrl or Alt were depressed. The problem of changing other settings with the scroll usually boils down to which channel will this be applied. You can make the channel active by clicking on its box, but by then you are already closer to the V/div settings anyways (which also works with the scroll button).
Anyways, the video shows the first impressions but I feel that corrections on post editing would have improved it.
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One feature of florentbr's software that I haven't seen other posts about are the lowpass filters he added to the channel setup menus. This week I had a practical situation where they were quite useful. I was trying to measure the output of a class-D audio amplifier; my particular model has differential outputs and the signals look nothing like the pretty traces I am used to seeing from class-A and class-AB amps. EDIT: for those that ae interested, the amp is an SMSL AO200, which is based on the Infineon MA12070 chips that run without an output filter.
I have attached a few images of measurements using the scope, where the two channels are making single-ended measurements of the two outputs for the left channel while playing a single 1 kHz sine-wave. The raw signals are messy, as is the output of the mathematical difference between the raw channels. You can see the sine-wave, but it has a ton of high-frequency content:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/?action=dlattach;attach=1711928;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/?action=dlattach;attach=1711910;image)
However, with the lowpass filters set at 20.5 kHz, both the signals and their difference are quite clean:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/?action=dlattach;attach=1711916;)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/?action=dlattach;attach=1711922;image)
I think it is interesting that florentbr setup the filters as a percentage, so the cutoff frequency will change when a timebase change modifies the sample rate. For comparison, the filtering options for my Picoscope are set by cutoff frequency. Either way is fine, and while I do prefer the way the Picoscope software works, it is mostly a matter of taste. I am just happy that florentbr added these, since it can save the hassle of cobbling together hardware filters on a breadboard just to make some quick-and-dirty measurements.
This is yet another way that florentbr made these scopes more valuable.
jason
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One feature of florentbr's software that I haven't seen other posts about are the lowpass filters he added to the channel setup menus...
Damn, That confused me, I was wondering why I couldn't find it! It turns out that I while I have CF19 installed, I was using an old desktop shortcut, that's what happens when you have multiple versions installed in different locations - I must have deleted the wrong one. :palm: I must have been running it at some point because, according to changes.txt, it was introduced in CF15 and I tested the XY / FFT mode cycle button in CF18.
Thanks for pointing it out.
EDIT: That's also why I wasn't seeing the scroll wheel timebase that rsjsouza pointed out the other day.
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Hi everyone, I was looking for an oscilloscope for my DIY audio, after researching and thanks to this thread, I bought a non (i) vds1022
everything works fine, however when I did the noise test of the oscilloscope itself, I see it to be not very stable, despite using an external power source (lt1764 low noise LDO)
Will adding a power supply isolation chip affect this?
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Hi,
If I'm reading the trace correctly, at 10ms/div, that looks like mains pickup. It could either be from a ground loop between your PC and audio source (which USB isolation in the 'I' version is there to break), or noise pick up from your source. It's impossible to say without knowing rather more about the source and your setup. If the mains noise disappears when you unplug the probes (which I'm sure it will unless the scope is faulty) then it is an issue with your test setup.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "power supply isolation chip", are you talking about turning the scope into the 'I' variant or your external power source. To cure a ground loop issue, you need to break the loop which is passing between the grounds of your source, the PC ground, and possibly your PSU ground.
EDIT: On second reading, I am now not sure what you have your probes connected to. If they are just lying on the bench, they will be picking up low level mains noise from the local environment, in this case, shorting their tips to their ground clips should make it go away.
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Hi,
If I'm reading the trace correctly, at 10ms/div, that looks like mains pickup. It could either be from a ground loop between your PC and audio source (which USB isolation in the 'I' version is there to break), or noise pick up from your source. It's impossible to say without knowing rather more about the source and your setup. If the mains noise disappears when you unplug the probes (which I'm sure it will unless the scope is faulty) then it is an issue with your test setup.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "power supply isolation chip", are you talking about turning the scope into the 'I' variant or your external power source. To cure a ground loop issue, you need to break the loop which is passing between the grounds of your source, the PC ground, and possibly your PSU ground.
EDIT: On second reading, I am now not sure what you have your probes connected to. If they are just lying on the bench, they will be picking up low level mains noise from the local environment, in this case, shorting their tips to their ground clips should make it go away.
Thank for reply, well, I didn't plug in the probes when do this test. And yes, the "power supply isolation chip" I'm talking about is the DCP020505U at "I" version .
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A couple of things that come to mind. You say that you have a low noise external power supply feeding the scope, If you are feeding this in via the USB 'Y' cable that comes with the scope then your supply is effectively in parallel with the 5V USB supply comming from the PC USB port (It takes power from both connectors).
No, just fitting the internal isolated DC-DC converter won't break any ground loop. To be isolated like the 'I' version you would also need to fit the ADuM3160 USB data isolation chip and remove the zero ohm resistors bridging the ground planes (not that you can't remove these without fitting the ADuM3160).
Try attaching the scope probes and grounding the tips with their ground clips. It's possible that the high impedance inputs are stil picking up a small amount of mains hum if your environment is particularly noisy.
P.S. Before ordering any parts, check the footprint of the DC-DC converter. From a recent post, it looks as if they have changed from the DCP020505U to a more common Chinese DC-DC module. Before opening also consider whether it is feasible to return it in exchange for an isolated model before modifying it yourself. I'm also not sure which would be the cheaper option in your local market conditions.
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A couple of things that come to mind. You say that you have a low noise external power supply feeding the scope, If you are feeding this in via the USB 'Y' cable that comes with the scope then your supply is effectively in parallel with the 5V USB supply comming from the PC USB port (It takes power from both connectors).
No, just fitting the internal isolated DC-DC converter won't break any ground loop. To be isolated like the 'I' version you would also need to fit the ADuM3160 USB data isolation chip and remove the zero ohm resistors bridging the ground planes (not that you can't remove these without fitting the ADuM3160).
Try attaching the scope probes and grounding the tips with their ground clips. It's possible that the high impedance inputs are stil picking up a small amount of mains hum if your environment is particularly noisy.
P.S. Before ordering any parts, check the footprint of the DC-DC converter. From a recent post, it looks as if they have changed from the DCP020505U to a more common Chinese DC-DC module. Before opening also consider whether it is feasible to return it in exchange for an isolated model before modifying it yourself. I'm also not sure which would be the cheaper option in your local market conditions.
I break 5V+ from usb, connect it to low noise external power, not parallel 2 power source.
Follow datasheet of DCP020505U, i see it breaks both V+ and GND, also checked the VDS board, 4 big 0ohm resistors (2 on top, 2 on bottom) are correct input and output with DCP020505U. I had order 2 isolator, replace it soon and check again
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Ah, I see, that makes sense. All of the internal analogue and digital supply rails are separately regulated (apart from the probe cal output) so it shouldn't be very sensitive to input supply noise, certainly not at mains frequency.
Yes, the large 0R resistors that isolate the ground planes and +5V are fairly obvious. A quick check with a meter will show that you have achieved isolation. The resistors that bridge the USB data signal isolation are on top of the ADuM3160 footprint, so you will automatically have to remove them to fit the IC (again don't attempt ground isolation before you have fitted the ADuM3160 as this would risk injecting damaging voltages into the USB signals).
My unit is now 7+ years old, so many revisions before yours, but you can see the noise levels on mine (PC powered) in replies #2 and #3 for comparison. Nobody else seems to have reported high levels of mains frequency noise pickup, maybe somebody else with a recent revision unit can post some screenshots for you to compare. Again I would check with shorted inputs in case you have a particularly noisy environment where mains hum is getting into the open BNC connectors - and maybe also try powered by the normal USB 5V.
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My unit is now 7+ years old, so many revisions before yours, but you can see the noise levels on mine (PC powered) in replies #2 and #3 for comparison. Nobody else seems to have reported high levels of mains frequency noise pickup, maybe somebody else with a recent revision unit can post some screenshots for you to compare. Again I would check with shorted inputs in case you have a particularly noisy environment where mains hum is getting into the open BNC connectors - and maybe also try powered by the normal USB 5V.
Here is what the noise looks like on my MP720016 (rebranded vds1022) with no probes on; it looks the same with shorted probes attached. It also does not matter whether my laptop is running from mains or battery. I purchased the scope from Newark within the past two months, and the PCB is labeled VDS1022_V2.1 with a date code 2021.07.12.
jason
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I have soldered both DCP020505U and ADUM3160 isolator ic and put it back in the aluminum case but the main noise still doesn't go away.
Then I dissemble it and found that when touching the gnd part on the motherboard the main noise disappears, but leaving it alone the main noise reappears.
Can anyone give a hint on this issue?
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That's a curious one. In a noisy envronment, maybe touching the ground plane injects some common mode noise into it which compensate the signal noise pickup (?).
Some things to check...
1. Continuity checks that USB ground and +5V and VDS are now fully isolated.
2. That the internal screening cans are properly grounded to the ground plane.
3. I suspect most likely - That the Aluminium case is making good ground connection with the ground plane. I think on later PCB revs there are bare tinned areas running down each side of the PCB to make contact with the case grooves. It could be that you have a case which is extra-heavily anodised and isn't making contact. Check against the BNC sleeve or the gnd tab next to the probe cal output. I would expect touching the case (or indeed the probe ground clips) to have the same effect as touching the PCB.
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New member here and a huge amount of appreciation to all contributors for so many interesting comments over the current 31 pages, it must be quite a surprise to find so many following for so long Gyro? The level of expertise shown by so many, is quite reassuring and having worked in electronics for my whole career, although now retired, it shows how much dedication so many have for the subject. I've recently been playing with micro-controllers to improve certain features of my old property and add some smart systems. My old oscilloscopes have seen better days, both sporting Advance logo's but one after Gould took over, although both names were added to the front panel. One is analogue and the other the 1st digital scope Gould made, being the OS4000, sampling at 1.8MHz. They claim it manages to display a bandwidth of just over 400kHz, although has a 10MHz front end for the analogue display. They all used to be mixed signal 'scopes during that phase. They have both served me well but I was struggling to verify some of the new hardware I'm using, as well as having several faults that appear every time I actually need them, so decided to get myself a cheap small unit as I'm trying to stop filling the house even more than it already is! I visited many sites but this was the one that gave me the best insight, although I'd seen it on the digital basement review 1st, so both areas had my respect.
I only received it yesterday but it is indeed impressive for the price and does do what the makers claim, not a normal experience for most of the far eastern imports, who shall remain nameless.
I started with florent's SW, which I am also appreciative of, it is an impressive feat, although I know that many have helped contribute to the project. I spent an afternoon running around the various features and got excited as each had such capability beyond something at this price point. Today, I coupled up one of my experiments and decided an external trigger would be useful. I noted the multi channel automatically switched to "external in" and being TTL, only edge trigger is available, both what I needed. It was the 1st item that I'd tried that didn't go as planned. No triggering at all and to cut a long story to the chase, I found that the multi channel appears to load the circuit, as though it is still switched as an output (I'd used it during my familiarisation to see the trigger output delay), as when attached to the probe calibrator, the signal no longer swings to zero, being around a 2.5v to 5v square wave instead. I tried pre-switching it to an input, prior to selecting it as a trigger source, as well as several other combinations. It isn't a show stopper and didn't curb my admiration for all that has been done but perhaps somebody might confirm my findings and make sure it isn't something peculiar to my unit or circumstances. My unit is the VDS1022I and I have checked all the grounding arrangements. Removing the ext connector returns the probe output back to normal.
I will end there, as it is already long for a 1st comment but I'm glad to be part of this community and a rather pleased owner of the device too!
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While I'm still thinking about it, I didn't seem able to enable the channel filters, although I used averaging instead to achieve a better image on repetitive waveforms. Some of the single shot traces would have benefitted from some bandwidth limiting (despite the lower apparent sampling rate), as I was at very slow sweep rates and in roll mode. However, what a blessing having triggering during roll, I'd have been lost without it, as it is one of the best features of my old Gould OS4000, along with 4 trigger points to serve either pre or post trigger data. The features on this SW (cf19) are making me smile every time I capture a new trace.
To add a little background, I put my controllers to sleep for efficiency, so set a single trigger, waiting for the wake-up. Although most of the signals are quite fast, bursts of data appear at various points afterwards, so a slow'ish sweep eases the visualisation of all the relationships. The peak detect allows the odd single pulses to be detected and yet another smile elicited. I assume that is possible because the ADCs are always flat out, which I'm sure I read here too.
Thanks again.
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Welcome to the forum Bigwizman. :)
Indeed, I occasionally need to remind myself that it was 2015 when I posted the teardown and we're still talking about it. That seems a pretty long product lifetime, although looking back the Rigol 1054Z and even the (still flawed) Hantek 6022be were around back then, I guess products that find a solid niche survive. I wonder how many (free) sales the thread has generated for Owon in that time! I'm also retired and it's more or less my only DSO still - my goto is still my Tek 475A but I do have an old Pico ADC216 (333/166ksps!) 16 bit that I use for audio (mainly in FFT), I still hate the Pico UI though. As you say, the Owon H/W actually performs as advertised and Florent's S/W has certainly given it a new lease of life.
Interesting info on the external trigger input impedance, I've always assumed that it was a similar 1Meg like the channel inputs. I have to admit that I've only used it a handful of times and that has been a direct coax connection to the TTL trigger output on an HP function generator. I think somebody mentioned problems with external triggering a while back, so loading was probably the issue. You've prompted me to further investigation, I suppose it's possible that the pullup or whatever for the pass/fail output might still be in circuit, I'll see what it does on my early issue PCB version.
EDIT: Yes, the triggering in roll mode is one of Florent's biggest improvements - so much better than the little 'triggering not available' pop-up box in the original Owon S/W! I'm not sure what the problem is with enabling the channel roll off filters, I tried them myself a couple of days back and they worked for me. Yes, I think you're right on the peak detect.
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Wow! fast reply Chris and thanks for the welcome. I suspected you might be one of life's more experienced members! I like your diligence of repeating the dangers of not respecting circuits with high current capability and carelessness of ground connections. I have a pair of lenses I was wearing, with embedded metal particles (I used them as training aides for graduates and apprentices) after believing the person who told me they had isolated the circuit I was investigating. I had made several connections where my screwdriver had not touched the earthed housing but when aligning to a slightly more difficult connection I used the metalwork to steady the tool and after touching the electrical contact the end of the screwdriver vapourised into my face! It didn't even blow the fuse! Had I not been wearing glasses, my eyes would have taken huge damage. I was a youngster then but have never relied on others to confirm a safety situation since, without several confirmatory checks myself!
I will carry on investigating the external trigger but it worked perfectly as an output of the trigger (it does have an obvious delay), although to a high impedance 'scope input. My assumption would be that it is a tristate pin, being TTL, so configurable as input or output, at best a line driver/transceiver. It is interesting that you have used it as an external trigger, so I will try driving it from a signal generator rather than the unknown impedance of the probe calibrator or my micro-controllers. It appeared to me that it was not just loading the circuit but clamping the lower signal state to a voltage level, so not quite a simple pull-up resistor, as that shouldn't have stopped my own circuit from triggering. What fun!
The channel filter display I experience has a double hyphen against it and clicking/selecting has no effect. I've tried several different settings to see if it becomes enabled but all have the same result so far. I may be missing something but cannot find any other options or alternative references in the manual.
I'm about to look for the latest fault on the OS4000 digital section, which causes spurious steps to occur on top of the actual signal in a repeating cycle but the pattern is also dependent on amplitude and Y position control, so looks to be more than one fault. The store is a set of eight 1 bit by 1K chips! Mainly 7400 logic based, so pushing the art of possibility for what was available then but all in individual sockets. I actually toured the Gould/Advance factory (Hainault, Essex) when I was at university and got some development parts for my 1st analogue scope a few years before they started on digital storage 'scopes.
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A quick message regarding my issues yesterday.
1. The channel filters are working fine today and each channel is independent. I may have an explanation, as when I loaded the S/W yesterday, I double clicked. I was unaware I had two versions overlaying, with the top indicating a sync issue. On closing to try again, the lower version became visible and indicating sync. so I carried on. Perhaps there was some interactive disturbance caused. Put that down to my ineptitude.
2. The External trigger issue has the following characteristics on my unit (VDS1022I):-
-- Multi switched to External input.
The input sits at 4.4v when open circuit. Maybe the pull-up mentioned yesterday.
Connected to my 50 ohm source signal generator, a trigger can be obtained but on rising edges only.
My signal generator is symmetrical output so I have to use the DC bias facility to provide a TTL compatible signal but this adds extra flexibility to the options.
When connected to the ext trigger input, my source is pulled very slightly high but I adjusted back to TTL levels, varying sometimes during investigation.
Investigating possible rise time restrictions a triangular wave was used, initially to define the slope but again triggering occurred even on slower signals but again rising only.
Triggering occurs at a low voltage, so not a guaranteed high for TTL. Changing the slope, consistently indicated the same low trigger voltage.
Slightly negative transitions were allowed to see if it affected the triggering. Only rising edges obtained trigger.
Using pulses, it appears to have a 290nS delay between trigger indicator and the triggering edge. Rise time indication is 14nS but that is likely the 'scope, although could also be my ancient HP3310A.
Returning to the probe calibration output, a DC blocking capacitor did not allow any triggering and different values produced different distortions of the output.
Signal distortion is mostly a sharp initial transition, followed by a time constant, so a pull-up is likely evident but there appears to be an active region too.
-- Multi switched to trigger output.
Output sits at 0v, until triggered.
The trigger output signal has approx. 1.5 microseconds delay from the trigger indicator.
-- Multi switched to Pass/Fail.
Output sits at 0v. I have no Pass/Fail criteria loaded.
Going forward, I may try an external TTL buffer between my controllers and the external input, to see if I can get the unit to trigger on my circuit, as it is more useful to have two independent signals, knowing they are referenced to a known point.
Still battling with the OS4000!
Best regards.
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You're welcome Bigwizman.
Yes, it's important to remember that even the isolated version isn't an automatic 'get out of jail free card'. By it's nature the Owon does appeal to beginners, so dire warnings are useful. I'm glad you sorted the filter issue, yes accidental multiple windows can be confusing (and non-functional!).
You have beaten me to it on the external trigger today (good investigation), but looking through the VDS1022 folder on my computer, I remembered that member camomille traced out the schematic back in January 2020 (he's been missing for a couple of years, I hope he's ok!), it's posted in Reply#526. I have attached a crop of the Trig in / out multi section for reference. The schematic was drawn for one of the previous PCB revisions that still used the Xilinx FPGA (before cost and availability forced changes to a sucession of different parts) but I don't see why that would affect the basic I/O circuit.*
As you can see, there is a permanent 1k pullup to +5V on the drain of the output Mosfet. Combined with the 470R series resistor, this will give around 1.5k pullup to +5V in Trigger-in mode - on the face of it, nothing that should worry a 50R push-pull output (or a TTL output). The Trigger input goes via a 470R series resistor and protection diodes into an FPGA input.
Even if the Trigger (or pass/fail) output Mosfet is turned on, this would only cause a 470R pulldown to 0V, but you are seeing around 5V anyway. so this is a little puzzling. The question I can't answer is whether some change has been introduced on a recent revision of the PCB (a wrong pullup resistor value for instance or a change to a push-pull output). I'm not sure how keen you would be to open up the scope and do a bit of investigation - the +5V in question is obviously the isolated one rather than the USB interface.
For reference, here's a link to a thread describing the Trigger out behavior... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-trigger-out/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-trigger-out/)
EDIT: * I suppose the input circuit may have changed a little, as it is less likely that more recent FPGAs would have 5V tolerant inputs**, but 3V3 logic thresholds should otherwise be an approximate match with TTL ones.
Another thought - It might be worth checking the resistance between the Trigger input and the Probe Cal output. If the circuit is still similar, you should see just under 3k.
EDIT1: ** Checking again, the positive input protection diode clamps to +3V3 so the Xilinx input wasn't 5V tolerant anyway.
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Hi Chris, thanks for the thoughts and the circuit availability had completely slipped my mind, although as you say changes may have occurred. Your mastery of all the inputs is impressive!
I've continued battle with the OS4000 today and have used some of the VDS1022I's extra features to good effect. The designers have used quite a few tricks to obtain the specification but in maximising bandwidth, it causes extra internal noise that is filtered late in the signal path. I had to use both channel filtering and averaging to allow the erroneous signals to become visible above the noise. I would have liked a proper signal integrator but it had the desired effect. I have narrowed it down to a single data bit, so can now hunt the offending circuit. The light diminished too much, so I will attack it another day.
I did a quick check of the resistance between the two connectors suggested and it was just under 3k as you and the circuit originally uncovered by Camomille predicted, so looks to be unchanged. I don't think there is anything in the circuitry that contradicts the results I noted on my unit, apart from possibly the ac coupled trigger test results but even that is likley to have incomplete charging, so would exhibit some fast apparent edges. I think my only confusion is that my 50 ohm source could trigger the external input even when using a relatively slow triangular waveform, albeit on rising signals only but a fast transition on the probe calibrator failed to obtain a trigger, along with my own controller circuit using 3.3 v logic?
As I commented at the time, Ext triggers at a very low voltage, which may be a clue. Perhaps the circuits failing to trigger the system do not quite get to a low enough level but I'd be surprised if that is the case. My second confusion is that I failed to get any negative transitions to trigger the unit? I wonder what others have experienced using the external trigger?
That previous link to the trigger out behaviour has very similar findings to my own. The delay then, was slightly shorter at around 1.2'ish microseconds, whereas mine was closer to 1.5 but I suspect it is dependent on what version of code has been put in the FPGA. It is at least deterministic when using FPGAs, so despite having a delay, it is easy to compensate.
Returning to the circuit diagram aspect, I had already downloaded it but had yet to study the level of detail, so it probably wouldn't have tweaked my deliberations for some time. Looking, it does have all the details and a very good effort indeed, so I will use it in future. I am possibly one of the few, along with those long time members who witnessed the comments as they were made originally, who has read every one of the comments from start to finish. I did it over a relatively short period and possibly overloaded what I could remember, as my main aim was to see if some features that initially appeared good had distinct limitations that only long term use identifies (a bit like external triggering ::)) and largely speaking there are very few limitations associated with the features actually incorporated. Yes, others have more features but at considerably more cost and many add them to the feature list and either fail to work (or unreliable) or worse are actually not incorporated but designed to capture the search engine traffic. I've seen so many claiming the ubiquitous 1 GS/s, that I disbelieve it initially unless it is a well known manufacturer. Usable sensitivity is another claim or avoiding the fact it has no low signal capability. Rant over!
Best regards.
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Hi All,
I've been looking at my EXT trigger input issue a bit more and sent Owon a few of my observations, asking for an opinion, but mainly to provide them with feedback. The observations I sent were obtained using their latest S/W 1.1.5 but I did the same tests with Florent's cf19 and there were no differences.
I can now get usable EXT triggering on my 3.3v logic but it is temperamental. Taking the EXT input negative by 0.5v obtains very reliable triggering but as I noted before, the triggering voltage is very low. I suspect that many will have used 50 ohm source generators without termination, as most of the time we are just after something that will clock a circuit but the ringing produced (normally hidden at the lower scan speeds) is likely to provide the overshoot that mine needs to trigger more reliably, and probably others similarly if it is common to all VDS1022 units. I also noted that, although the 50% trigger option is available, it has no effect on EXT trigger inputs.
I cannot get any EXT triggering when set for negative edges, however much I push the biasing on the triggering signal, without exceeding the TTL spec too much or taxing the internal clamp diodes of course.
Looking at the Camomille circuit from Gyro's reminder, it is very obvious that connecting the Ext trigger input to the probe calibration output will never get close to the actual EXT trigger level with the potential dividers created by the isolation resistors and pull-ups incorporated.
In my mind, even the positive EXT edge triggering is easy to live with and a simple external circuit with a schmitt input inverter for triggering on negative edges, or adding more sophistication with variable trigger levels, is possible. I've used a schmitt XOR with a short delay on one input to provide a positive pulse (effectively both edges, although the positive edge is the actual sync) to trigger on positive and negative transitions, as I needed change of state then. The schmitt improves reliability, even on slow edges and cleans up noisy signals.
These are all small foibles and part of getting to know one's equipment. It has been a useful exercise, as I have now used the Owon S/W and Florent's. Florent's version has more fluent results with that all important triggering at all scan rates and I like it the most for all the extras, which I'm still exploring but I do like the visibility of the Owon S/W during maths functions, as it keeps the CH1 & 2 signals visible during the display of the maths results. The fact the two versions can be alternated between so easily removes any restrictions but Florent, along with some of the others, have driven what is essentially a good product to a higher level of sophistication. Interestingly, on another area of these forums, a Perytech unit gets mentioned that has similar hardware, perhaps with slightly more capability. The software suggests it can synchronise up to four units on the same display, using the external trigger outputs. Now that would be some facility, two of these units, providing a four channel input, displayed on the same synchronised GUI....
Best regards.
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Hi Bigwizman,
I'm sorry, I haven't had time to check my early unit yet (I'm literally up to my elbows in an audio project). One thing occurs to me, just a vague possibility. I don't know what FPGA is in your unit, but presumably it's one of the recent variants. If the internal pullup on the input pin happened to be enabled, it might act as a potential divider with the series 470R resistor and artificially lower the input low threshold. As Florent uses the same Owon FPGA stream files, this would be the same for both softwares. This is pure conjecture on my part but it's the only way I can see of getting a voltage drop across the series 470R resistor (the resistive 1k+470R pullup is acting directly in the input connector), the FPGA logic thresholds being pretty well defined. A quick thought anyway - I don't think anyone has reverse engineered the FPGA streams so no help available there.
I will check the behaviour on my Xilinx FPGA equipped early model as soon as I get a moment.
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Thanks for the reply Chris, at some point, past when I'm comfortable that my unit doesn't have any functional faults that would require warranty claims, I will get inside, as I too was thinking it would be FPGA input thresholds, although again, as the FPGA history is vague on later units and knowing most of the devices used have separate supplies for banks of I/O, internals and perhaps a few other internal blocks, which could actually be lower again than the 3.3v main supply, the actual trigger point could be relatively low anyway. I note Camomille's circuit shows a number of lower voltage supplies, that could come into play. Once I get past that checking period, I will endeavor to see what the actual level is at the FPGA input. A nice thought about an internal pull-up possibly being enabled, as it would indeed influence the reaction to the external signals.
The only real item I had hoped somebody else could check, is if their units accept negative edge EXT triggers (on this round of software), purely from the functional aspect. Is mine typical or the odd man out? Please don't see that as anything pressing, it isn't, I can happily live with what I have found but if the unit has a fault, I'm in the window to get it replaced. Owon may even get back to me!
I have now resolved the Gould/Advance OS4000 DSO issue. It was one of the 1bit, 1K memory chips, from Intel (2102 static RAM). The data sequence coming out, isn't the same as that going in. I cannot source any of these, so have moved it to the lsb position, where it is hardly distinguishable. It had been a bit of a gut feeling for some time and I've contemplated putting a block of more modern memory in, even though most of it won't get addressed. I noted these old chips have very variable levels between them too, some marginal on TTL transition levels. I have some around 2.7v. The "stuck" bits make an attempt but never reach the threshold. The VDS1022i is pretty much superior in every respect to the OS4000, except nostalgia and my own appreciation of how it helped me produce, what were pretty unique designs at the time!
Good to hear you are also into audio! I have an omni-transmission speaker project running, that will eventually have 5 drivers per stereo channel, each driven separately to maintain damping levels. The lower end is taking some time to design, as it is inverse tapered transmission line loaded and using concentric tubes to reduce panel radiation. Top end is the Dayton air motion transformer, mid range is covered by two 3" metal coned units and the bottom end is a composite coned unit. The extended bass, when required, is likely a 10 or 12" but has yet to be bought. All but the very top end are forced to radiate in an omni pattern but forcing the tweeter becomes a bit pointless (and rather difficult, with the short wavelengths involved, so easy to produce lobes), although it sits in a spherical housing to minimize diffraction effects. Except the extended bass, which would be guilding the lilly, they are point sources. There are reflectors involved but well within a wavelength at their crossover points. Sorry, not intending to hijack the subject of these discussions!
Best regards!
EDIT: I had an acknowledgement from the UK Owon office, that my observations were sent to the development engineers and will respond when a reply is received. Owon certainly have a professional approach to customer liaison that should be commended, responding the 1st working day after I sent my observations. I'm certainly impressed.
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Hello, newbie here.
I just ordered this scope (isolated version) for US$77.99 shipped, original price US$92.99.I had a $15 coupon code. Did I score a good deal? I'm on a tight budget and I'm just starting, so I didn't go for the higher end stuff.
My intention would be to probe hobby-related ac or dc electric motors and their driver circuits, low voltage stuff.
Would I need to isolate the unit under test for safety?
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I personally think you got a great deal, especially because it is the isolated version.
I don't know how you define low voltage, but if it is 12 or 24V you don't need to have concerns about the isolation of the unit and its controlling PC.
Only keep in mind the channel inputs are not isolated between them, so you need to be cautious if you clip the ground probe in different parts of the circuit.
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Hello, newbie here.
I just ordered this scope (isolated version) for US$77.99 shipped, original price US$92.99.I had a $15 coupon code. Did I score a good deal? I'm on a tight budget and I'm just starting, so I didn't go for the higher end stuff.
My intention would be to probe hobby-related ac or dc electric motors and their driver circuits, low voltage stuff.
Would I need to isolate the unit under test for safety?
I agree with rsjsouza - you got a great deal. For many hobbyists, especially those just starting out, it has plenty of capability. My first scope was a picoscope 2204a that cost twice as much and has inferior basic specs (10 MHz bandwidth, 10 mV/div sensitivity, 50 MS/s x 2 sampling, 8 kSample shared memory but usually you get less); it served me well for a handful of years before I decided to upgrade. While the picoscope has a few extra features that are great for niche applications, I find the vds1022 to be a much better value and is quite fun to use.
EDIT: I recommend using florentbr's software, which many of us find superior to Owon's.
https://github.com/florentbr/OWON-VDS1022
cheers,
jason
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That is a good deal MagicSmoke and from what you say, will be a good learning platform, as it is a good stable unit you can rely on. Not knowing the exact control circuits of course means the advice given can only be based on assumptions. In this instance though, even if you are working with H bridge controllers, the isolated version of the DSO will limit the possibilities of shorting one side of the motor output to a common ground, as neither of the two motor outputs stay at 0v. This would happen if you connected a normal grounded type scope input directly across the motor. If you are really worried, supply the motors from a floating psu but shouldn't be necessary with the isolated scope. Once you start using the DSO, many of the pitfalls will almost explain themselves, as you visualise the operation of the circuits under test. However, do stay withing the voltage rating of the scope inputs, so switch the probes to the 10x setting if you are uncertain of what voltages under test might be and then once confirmed, set them appropriately. There will also be inductive spikes due to interrupting currents through the motor windings but there should be diode clamps as part of the circuit to ensure they do not destroy the driving transistors and if they are missing, those spikes will damage the DSO inputs, so those clamps are important for operation and circuit reliability. Otherwise have fun!
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I use Windows 10 64x at work and I want to talk about a small problem with installing florentbr's software on this system.
I'm used to using the 32-bit version of the popular TotalCmd file manager for file operations. If you run the install.win file in this version of the manager, then there will be no errors or messages and the program will install correctly, but only in the \Windows\Program Files (x86) directory. In this case, the oscilloscope will not work because it will not connection with USB. Therefore, on a 64-bit system, the install.win file must be run either through explorer or in the 64-bit version of TotalCmd.
In this case, the program will be installed in the desired directory \Windows\Program Files as well as the driver file libusb0 along the path Windows\SysWOW64. Now the oscilloscope will work correctly. What is also interesting is that the official software of the latest version OWON_VDS_C2_1.1.5 is installed correctly, regardless of the environment in which the installer is launched. It is possible that my hint will be useful to someone. :)
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A new version "OWON_VDS_C2_1.1.6" has been released on the official website.
https://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.zip
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A new version "OWON_VDS_C2_1.1.6" has been released on the official website.
https://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_C2_Setup.zip
Thanks- I just installed it. Unfortunately it doesn't fix the problem I have been having with corruption of waveform samples sent over SCPI when sampling slower than 100 MS/s. Was worth a try, though!
jason
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For folks in the US, newark.com has the Multicomp Pro mp720017 (rebadged vds1022i) for $72.23 + shipping (which I think is probably around $10).
https://www.newark.com/multicomp-pro/mp720017-us/pc-based-osc-2-ch-25mhz-100msps/dp/10AH2400 (https://www.newark.com/multicomp-pro/mp720017-us/pc-based-osc-2-ch-25mhz-100msps/dp/10AH2400)
Not a bad deal.
jason
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A new version "OWON_VDS_C2_1.1.7" has been released on the official website.
https://files.owon.com.cn/software/pc/OWON_VDS_S2_Setup.zip
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Hi All
I've had my 1022 about a year now and not used it much. I decided to update it to a 1022i first so recently ordered the components detailed earlier in this thread.
On opening the unit up I discovered it's the later version (VDS1022 V2.2 2021.08.08) with the different layout for the DC-DC converter instead of the DCP020505.
Anyway, with a bit of head scratching and studying of datasheets I made it fit!
Note: I didn't remove R79, It's part of a chain of 2 and now does nothing.
Vic
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Hi All,
Many thanks to all contributors, this teardown stream is amazing.
I have just purchased the isolated version VDS1022i and… I realized that the differential HV probe (micsig) I am planning to buy next, requires a grounded oscilloscope (I need to control the output of 2 solar inverters).
What would be your recommandation to ground the VDS1022i?
I am considering to ground it to PE via CH2 or EXT for instance (since I won’t invest in 2 differentials probes ;) I won’t use CH2).
Note that I will operate the S/W on a headless Raspberry 4, remotely via VNC, if that matters.
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Hi All
I've had my 1022 about a year now and not used it much. I decided to update it to a 1022i first so recently ordered the components detailed earlier in this thread.
On opening the unit up I discovered it's the later version (VDS1022 V2.2 2021.08.08) with the different layout for the DC-DC converter instead of the DCP020505.
Anyway, with a bit of head scratching and studying of datasheets I made it fit!
Note: I didn't remove R79, It's part of a chain of 2 and now does nothing.
Vic
Thanks for posting, it's useful to know that the original DC-DC can still be made to fit reasonably easily.
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Hi All,
Many thanks to all contributors, this teardown stream is amazing.
I have just purchased the isolated version VDS1022i and… I realized that the differential HV probe (micsig) I am planning to buy next, requires a grounded oscilloscope (I need to control the output of 2 solar inverters).
What would be your recommandation to ground the VDS1022i?
I am considering to ground it to PE via CH2 or EXT for instance (since I won’t invest in 2 differentials probes ;) I won’t use CH2).
Note that I will operate the S/W on a headless Raspberry 4, remotely via VNC, if that matters.
Hi, welcome to the forum.
Yes, the shields of CH1, CH2 and EXT are solidly [grounded connected] to each other on the PCB so you could use either. The tag adjacent to the 1kHz Probe Cal output tag could also be used (though soldering a wire to this would be better left for a permanent installation, where you want to avoid accidental disconnection).
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Looking to buy my first scope, of course as a Student my budget is smaller, so i was looking at cheaper scopes, do you guys think the owon vds 1022 is good? i dont want to buy something i will regret in a few months. might be able to save up a bit more and get the 60mhz vds 2062 version, but i also want it to be compatible with the hscope app where only the 1022 is listed, have heard the higher end ones use the same protocoll so maybe these also work in it, if anyone has a 2062 can you please check?
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Looking to buy my first scope, of course as a Student my budget is smaller, so i was looking at cheaper scopes, do you guys think the owon vds 1022 is good? i dont want to buy something i will regret in a few months. might be able to save up a bit more and get the 60mhz vds 2062 version, but i also want it to be compatible with the hscope app where only the 1022 is listed, have heard the higher end ones use the same protocoll so maybe these also work in it, if anyone has a 2062 can you please check?
for 100$ i think there isn't a better option new. maybe for a bit more you can get one of the handheld scopes they make, like the HDS242s which has similar oscilloscope functionality to the VDS, except for math and FFT, and a more limited set of measurements, but you also get an ok multimeter and function generator. the VDS of course has the advantage of using a computer screen, plus the extra measurements and math and trigger options.
i don't know how good the hscope app has gotten. i tried it once, the free version, and was not impressed at all.
as a student, i think you might be better off finding a used analog discovery 2, it's basically a small lab in a single package, its software is amazing, and the hardware itself is also very capable. you get a 2 channel scope, 2 channel waveform generator, 16 logic I/O channels, and positive and negative power supplies. the software has features like frequency response analysis which will definitely come in handy when you're studying filters and amplifiers and whatnot, and with an add-on board, or a basic circuit of your own making, it can also do impedance analysis. you can find the analog discovery 2 on ebay used for about 150usd, which isn't much more than what the VDS1022i cost