Author Topic: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)  (Read 121111 times)

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Offline acediac

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #125 on: September 26, 2016, 06:27:33 am »
This oscilloscope seems so much better designed and built than the Hantek, but what a pity there is no software interface support for linux or other platforms  :-- Why won't these manufacturers learn that if they put out a good quality but reasonably priced product with the versatility of providing linux / open source drivers, then they don't even need to put a lot of effort into the user interface because the community will develop far better tools at no cost to them, plus extend the longevity of the product by sidestepping operating system obsolesence, PLUS generate a huge grassroots demand for their hardware which is effectively free marketing?  |O

I really want to buy this over the Hantek but at the end of the day, this product is doomed to have a limited life because it won't be updated for some version of windows in the near future.

There seems to be some old drivers for OWON oscilloscopes, but from what I understand, those are for the benchtop models, correct me if I'm wrong?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 06:30:38 am by acediac »
 

Offline Radioman55

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #126 on: October 16, 2016, 11:53:05 am »
Hello!  It has been a while since I've dabbled in Linux, but I recall that there is a program called 'Wine' at winehq.org which states it "is a compatibility layer capable of running Windows applications on several POSIX-compliant operating systems, such as Linux, Mac OSX, & BSD."  This might be what you're looking for.  Hope that helps!  Joe
Joe
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #127 on: October 16, 2016, 06:47:47 pm »
I agree, it's a shame Owon don't seem to know the first thing about exploiting opportunities to expand the usefulness and therefore sales volume of these products. The VDS series seem to have lacked wider takeup because of this while the inferior Hantek H/W has a much wider following. The ironic thing is that Owon probably use linux in their benchtop scopes.  :-//

Yes, I suspect that it would probably work fine under Wine, Joe. Perhaps somebody can try it with the Owon PC software from their website. This wouldn't confirm the device interface of course. Anyone already using one on a linux machine?

Chris
« Last Edit: October 16, 2016, 06:52:51 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline Capiten

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #128 on: October 18, 2016, 02:19:07 pm »
Hi! Anyone nows if it works well in windows 10? I contacted a seller and he said it doesn't but some users claim it does, you just have to install drivers trough 'device manager'.
Thank you all.
 

Offline goldjohn

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #129 on: November 12, 2016, 04:30:20 pm »
Hi! Anyone nows if it works well in windows 10? I contacted a seller and he said it doesn't but some users claim it does, you just have to install drivers trough 'device manager'.
Thank you all.
It works for me, without any issues.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

 
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Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #130 on: December 11, 2016, 09:44:40 pm »
I think about getting this (vds1022I) scope until i can afford something serious and its a shame there is so little documentation and almost no experiences about it.
The software looks better compared to other usb scopes and i already downloaded it to look at the functions and the files.
It looks like it runs in java and there are several *source.jar files in the plugins directory, which do contain .java source files.
Maybe it can give some hints on how to interface the scopes.
I wonder if they accidentially included their source code in the program?  :-DD

Can someone take a look at the program (VDS_C2) and the files in the plugins directory to see if that might be a possibility to interface those scopes or if the files are worthless?
Especially the "com.owon.vds.foundation.source_1.0.0.jar" looks like it contains the usb communication stuff and most of the functions of the program.
The "org.eclipse.equinox.launcher_1.3.0.v20120522-1813.jar" is what actually starts the whole program and can be run directly. Sadly it seems like no source for this exists, but it looks like it only loads other parts of the program.


*edit*
Tried to rebuild some classes using the sources i found and it seems possible.


Also as the program is java it runs perfectly fine under linux if you don't use the launcher but i am not sure what the launcher actually does and how hard it is to actually get the scope running under linux.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 12:41:58 pm by Ultrawipf »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #131 on: December 12, 2016, 09:22:50 pm »
Welcome to the forum  :)

Quote
Also as the program is java it runs perfectly fine under linux if you don't use the launcher but i am not sure what the launcher actually does and how hard it is to actually get the scope running under linux.

Now that's an interesting finding.  The problem of only running under windows has put some people off in the past, as has not being able to use the device at low level. The FPGA file is included as a .bin in the installation folder so that isn't a problem. Maybe you can achieve something good here.  :-+

P.S. Sadly I'm not a Linux or Java expert!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 09:25:31 pm by Gyro »
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Offline superpete

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #132 on: December 13, 2016, 03:58:50 am »
Especially the "com.owon.vds.foundation.source_1.0.0.jar" looks like it contains the usb communication stuff and most of the functions of the program.

I haven't got this scope yet (only found out about it from Dave's last video), but thought I'd look at the software.

The driver looks like it's just plain LibUSB and everything is implemented over a java-wrapper to the LibUSB API (there's even the .so library incuded). Now I'm not a linux guru, so not sure how you load libusb for a specific device, but if you can do that then the java app should just run.

I'm amazed they've included the source - probably a very good idea to archive it.

Everything else is standard libraries (ie https://wiki.eclipse.org/Equinox_Launcher). All the source you need seems to be included in the source.jar files!
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #133 on: December 14, 2016, 09:39:24 pm »
Even more encouraging.  :-+

Ok, so anyone know how I can make simple edits the .jar source files (and build?) in a windows environment? I'd love to be able to change the save button to save image rather than .txt and maybe add a few more shortcuts. Maybe a few other tweaks here and there.

(I have no java knowledge whatsoever!)

EDIT: Ah ok, after a bit of searching, .jar is an archive and 7zip is my friend. I now know one thing about Java.  :D
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 03:01:45 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #134 on: December 15, 2016, 03:00:51 pm »
Ok, so anyone know how I can make simple edits the .jar source files (and build?) in a windows environment? I'd love to be able to change the save button to save image rather than .txt and maybe add a few more shortcuts. Maybe a few other tweaks here and there.
Yes that should be possible.
In my test i just compiled one class and replaced it in the original jar after loading all dependencies in eclipse, but i have currently no configuration to build everything automatically.
Sadly the program crashed when using the launcher.exe, but worked when running the launcher.jar directly from the main folder.
Probably the launcher uses the included jvm and i just used a different jdk, but it is definetly possible to just modify some parts of the program.
I have no idea how equinox works and is configured here, but it seems to be a whole environment that launches the program as i can't find any main method from the sources that could be run directly.
But there are definetly all sources we need.

The biggest problem might be the fpga under linux, but i think the main program might upload the bin file automatically. I found the FPGADownloader class that seems to send the bin file to the fpga.

Can someone who already has the scope call the *launcher*.jar in the plugins folder from the main folder where the launcher.exe is (or else it can't load all the needed files in the root folder) and force the scope to use libusb? If we are lucky that might work directly.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 03:34:12 pm by Ultrawipf »
 

Offline ebclr

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #135 on: December 15, 2016, 03:25:33 pm »
Your version lost USB isolation  , that is not good
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #136 on: December 15, 2016, 05:50:14 pm »
Quote
Your version lost USB isolation  , that is not good

Not the end of the world, it can be retrofitted to the PCB if needed. The cost probably isn't much different to the price difference between the 'I' and 'non-I' but at least it can be done. See earlier posts in this thread.

The non-isolated version is really no different from a grounded scope. USB logic analyser, Hantek etc. It just needs care not to create a high current ground loop.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 05:52:59 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline ebclr

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #137 on: December 16, 2016, 08:53:31 am »
I high recomend to do this I already burned one Picoscope, with some ground loops to mains via computer power supply
 

Offline CatWhisker

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #138 on: December 22, 2016, 01:28:34 pm »
Hi Gyro & Ultrawipf,

I pushed my quick & dirty guide here:

https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022

Quick background:
I bought the scope, read some reviews that people wanted it on Mac/Linux, so got it running.

I came here and see you guys had started trying, so: Tada!

I'll be uploading an OS X 'app' package later, so you can just click-run the app.

Not tested in Linux, but I don't see a big issue for tweaks. (i'll do it later if this doesn't help.)


Dan.
 
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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #139 on: December 22, 2016, 01:49:52 pm »
Hi CatWhisker,

Quote
Tada!
Congratulations and thank you. I'm impressed!  :-+

I'm sure this will be helpful to a number of people, especially if it really is that easy to tweak it for Linux too.


It may be worth mentioning too that the VDS series support SCPI, I haven't looked into it in any detail, but it might be useful for automated measurement functions.
Chris

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Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #140 on: December 22, 2016, 04:06:29 pm »
That sounds awesome and is exactly what i thought and hoped for.
I will probably also buy this scope and when it works on OS X with that script it should also run on linux, i will try that when i have the scope.
Hopefully the scope will get some more attention when it runs on linux.
 

Offline gsdn

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #141 on: December 22, 2016, 04:15:44 pm »
Hi Gyro & Ultrawipf,

I pushed my quick & dirty guide here:

https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022

What a coincidence, I also just got it working on OSX past night (but went to sleep before posting anything). :)

Similar steps, although I simply removed libusbpp linking to get (an old version of) Libusbjava to build.

I'll be uploading an OS X 'app' package later, so you can just click-run the app.

That would be great

Not tested in Linux, but I don't see a big issue for tweaks. (i'll do it later if this doesn't help.)

Before trying on OSX, I did about the same steps (building the libs) on (Arch) Linux, but no luck. In fact, I tried on OSX primarily to confirm it would work out of Windows and it was a Linux specific issue I was hitting.

To me it seems the osciloscope has some strange behavior and the Linux kernel has issues dealing with it, so, for now, I don't think it's gonna be as easy as on OSX.

Great work!
 

Offline CatWhisker

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #142 on: December 22, 2016, 07:19:22 pm »
Hi Gyro & Ultrawipf,

I pushed my quick & dirty guide here:

https://github.com/tinwhisker/Owen-VDS1022

What a coincidence, I also just got it working on OSX past night (but went to sleep before posting anything). :)

Similar steps, although I simply removed libusbpp linking to get (an old version of) Libusbjava to build.

I'll be uploading an OS X 'app' package later, so you can just click-run the app.

That would be great

Not tested in Linux, but I don't see a big issue for tweaks. (i'll do it later if this doesn't help.)

Before trying on OSX, I did about the same steps (building the libs) on (Arch) Linux, but no luck. In fact, I tried on OSX primarily to confirm it would work out of Windows and it was a Linux specific issue I was hitting.

To me it seems the osciloscope has some strange behavior and the Linux kernel has issues dealing with it, so, for now, I don't think it's gonna be as easy as on OSX.

Great work!

Haha, like a bus - these will all be coming out the woodwork!

I've tidied up the OS X App and uploaded.
This "build" doesn't need to put files anywhere like the initial script did. libUSBJava has been tweaked to look locally instead.


I'll poke at Linux when I have some time.
Last time I poked with USB and 'scopes on Linux was at Pico years ago, so no doubt it's 'different' again...
 

Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #143 on: December 25, 2016, 08:46:02 pm »
Okay, i have the scope now and i am quite impressed how well it works even with usb 1.1
I quickly tried it on linux, but the software won't find the hardware.
Probably i need to manually create some device rules, but i have not much experience with that and how to force it to use libusb.
 

Offline CatWhisker

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #144 on: December 25, 2016, 09:47:51 pm »
Okay, i have the scope now and i am quite impressed how well it works even with usb 1.1
I quickly tried it on linux, but the software won't find the hardware.
Probably i need to manually create some device rules, but i have not much experience with that and how to force it to use libusb.

Been faffing in Linux all day.
I'm at the point where the app will recognise the device, but fails (times out) at sending config.
It should have write access and a quick Python script succeeds, but this is just annoying!

Some notes:
- lsusb may list the unit with another Owon device - this is purely a text string, not an existing driver. It seems Owon use one Id across most devices!
- A rule appears not to make a useful difference for testing (I'm Sudo'ing everything for now), but for a 'public' guide, is probably going to be useful.
- I removed the lsusbjava.so (wrong ELF format), and apt'd the libusbjava.

When running the app, you'll spot the terminal chatter when the device is plugged in, then fail with a timeout.

I'll have another crack at it another free day, but hopefully someone can give it some real effort.
 

Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #145 on: December 30, 2016, 11:32:44 pm »
While digging around in the code to add some shortcuts to move the trigger position i also found a "secret" menu that you can activate by pressing ctrl+l and click on "tune"
Can anyone translate to see what that might do?



*edit*
oh well, looks just like some kind of configuration editor and language selection.
But i still don't know what those three tabs do differently.
The voltage selections do change the range on the scope and the calibration also just starts the self calibration just like in the main menu.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 12:22:40 am by Ultrawipf »
 

Offline gsdn

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #146 on: January 05, 2017, 07:55:54 am »
I quickly tried it on linux, but the software won't find the hardware.
Without the actual message I can't be sure, but IIRC I saw such a message be thrown due to another problem (missing libraries, permissions... I can't remember).

Probably i need to manually create some device rules, but i have not much experience with that and how to force it to use libusb.
That (I'm guessing you mean the equivalent of the windows step of associating the device with the libusb-win32 driver) is not needed, just adequate permissions and the properly working libs.

Been faffing in Linux all day.
I'm at the point where the app will recognise the device, but fails (times out) at sending config.
This is the point I got too, before testing in the Mac. If you look at dmesg output, there should be a few "USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed" messages.

It should have write access and a quick Python script succeeds, but this is just annoying!
What does your Python script do?


Some notes:
- lsusb may list the unit with another Owon device - this is purely a text string, not an existing driver. It seems Owon use one Id across most devices!
- A rule appears not to make a useful difference for testing (I'm Sudo'ing everything for now), but for a 'public' guide, is probably going to be useful.
- I removed the lsusbjava.so (wrong ELF format), and apt'd the libusbjava.
The provided libusbJava.so is built for 32bit systems, are you using a 64bit system?

So far, apart from the Mac, in which we already know it works, I've tried:
1) a 64bit Linux (Arch) system with a recent kernel: timeout errors ("USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed ...") early in the device initialization progress.
2) a 32bit Linux (Centos) with an old (2.6) kernel running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: same as 1).
3) a 64bit FreeBSD 11 running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: didn't work, then worked 1 or 2 times, then never again; even not working, it gets further in the device initialization progress than Linux, the last message shown in the terminal, before stalling, is "+6250 bytes MCU:getFrame 14".
4) same 64bit FreeBSD 11 system running on actual hardware: same results as 3).

I have no idea what made it work once (or twice) in FreeBSD, but it did. it seems this device has some weird USB behavior... after trying to use it in FreeBSD/Linux, it locks the boot process of my notebook (which proceeds promptly after unplugging the device), booting with it plugged in sometimes also prevents Linux from recognizing my wireless keyboard/mouse usb receiver (which also proceeds to work promptly after unplugging it)...
 

Offline JustMac

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #147 on: January 06, 2017, 02:27:32 am »
I note that Saelig is having a clearance sale on these ATM. It is the non-I model unfortunately. I've decided that I'm tired of borrowing a Tek from work and one of these is probably enough for 95% of my needs (for the other 5%, I'm back to borrowing from work). I'm a bit concerned about the 5kSa capture but for these $s ($84) I'll see what I see. I've just got to come up with $16 (or more if I bother with the EEVblog discount) of other (needed  ;) ) stuff to get the free shipping.

I recall that early on in this thread there was some discussion on the USB hardware installed, 1.1 vs 2.0, in the I vs non-I variants. Did that ever get resolved ? Are they all USB 1.1 hardware, just that the non-I is missing a couple of ICs ? I believe that sticking to 1.1 speed it's about $20 (US) to make the upgrade.

I also sorta recall a comment (perhaps not in this thread) that all the OWON PC scopes push their data to the PC differently from others, and that's why they don't make for good data streamers. That the captured waveform is spit across the USB link as a file ? Even in continuous (vs single shot) mode ?? Does anyone know or am I misfiring a neuron (again) ?

I ask the above because I have a goofy idea on another way to isolate the scope. My thought was to use a cheap ARM SoC board (perhaps an RPi) to talk via USB to the scope. The pair are powered by the ubiquitous wallwart, which is general isolated from the mains. The link to the client software on the PC is then done via WiFi. This would mean some custom software on the ARM board to play  mailman between WiFi and USB. And some more mods to the client software. I'm sure a real software person (not I) could do it in an hour !  >:D And if the speeds are really 1.1, the additional lag may be unnoticeable. I recall other posters saying it's already somewhat laggy. In return you get isolation and freedom from yet another USB cable dragging across the workbench.

Of course the whole scheme may be goofy but I figured I'd toss it out there and let people pull on it's wings.
 

Offline rch

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #148 on: January 06, 2017, 10:06:16 am »
Apparently USB opto-isolators are a thing.  I didn't know that, but this is just an example from Google of a fairly reputable sounding one.

http://uk.farnell.com/olimex/usb-iso/usb-isolator-1000vdc-for-pc-laptop/dp/1795095?mckv=fvKfxZhD_dc|pcrid|78108470709|&gross_price=true&CATCI=pla-131293226229&CAAGID=20220744309&CMP=KNC-GUK-GEN-SHOPPING-OLIMEX&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CKiy19mhrdECFW4A0wodOisBqQ&DM_PersistentCookieCreated=true&CAWELAID=120173390000303585
 

Offline JustMac

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #149 on: January 06, 2017, 08:13:18 pm »
Yup, I've seen USB 2 isolated cables for about $50 (US). And Adafruit sells a isolator for USB 1.x for about $35, though it's a bit shy on current for this usage. (https://www.adafruit.com/product/2107) Linear Tech sells a USB 2 isolator IC, which Mouser and Digikey carry for about $30. You'd then have to come up with the PCB to mount it and associated connectors & cabling.

So there are solutions for people who want to isolate a non-I version w/o opening it up, it really depends on what speed it runs at (hence my question above).

My goofy idea above was birthed by looking for a "fair" entry level logic analyzer. I ran across a one-off project that used a Beaglebone Black (with it's PRUs and onboard RAM) to do a good job of capturing data but with real triggering and deep memory, something the $20 streamers can't do. Because it's another single board Linux machine, it could even run sigrok-client and with an added display and keyboard, be it's own little stand alone LA. No doubt better, in some regards, than the ones I started with decades ago.

Conceivably you could do a similar thing with my goofy proposal above to make it stand alone, but the added cost of a display and buttons and encoders, etc, etc would soon be enough that you could buy a better, budget, "real" benchtop DSO for just a bit more. YMMV. Just to isolate and make it wireless might run about $30 added (plus time to code), only slightly more $s than adding the 2 ICs mentioned in prior posts. When mine arrives I'll be better able to see if the idea has any merit.
 


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