Author Topic: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)  (Read 234756 times)

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Offline krum

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #150 on: February 07, 2017, 11:20:31 pm »
Thank you for the fast response and good advises, Chris.
To answer first to the setup questions - I am using the supplied USB cable, tried both plugging it in 1 and 2 usbs (it is an Y cable).
When default settings are restored I cannot see any traces in manual mode (good tip, will use it, thanks).
Software is 1.0.23 (latest from Owon's website). I have also tried with 1.0.24, which came with the oscilloscope on a CD.

I have dug a bit more in the menus and found the "Self Cal" button under Utility. After the calibration finishes, I can see traces, when I connect the probe to the generator. The frequency is measured at 1000Hz.
When the scale is at <5V, the graphic seems to be not effected by changing the scale. The Voltage cursor however changes its value. The graphic is rather tiny. If I change the probe's multiplier to  1X, then the graphic gets much higher.
Changing the scale to 5V and more reduces the size of the graphic to a very tiny one.

Following your advise, I have contacted the supplier and prepared this video for them:  https://youtu.be/9Yw15jdur5g
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #151 on: February 08, 2017, 01:11:08 pm »
You're welcome, I'm glad it was of some help anyway.

Quote
When the scale is at <5V, the graphic seems to be not effected by changing the scale. The Voltage cursor however changes its value. The graphic is rather tiny. If I change the probe's multiplier to  1X, then the graphic gets much higher.
Changing the scale to 5V and more reduces the size of the graphic to a very tiny one.

Hmm, that looks like the problem then, no wonder the Autoset is getting confused. At a guess it's a bad joint somewhere between the processor and the variable gain amplifier (it sound as if the relay controls work) but best not to mess with it while you're in discussion with the supplier, who will hopefully be helpful!

One thing I forgot to ask... Does it behave the same on the other channel? That would be helpful to know, both for diagnosis and for evidence to the supplier.


P.S. I wonder what they've changed in s/w 1.0.24 vs the website version. Unfortunately Owon don't really do release notes.  :(
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 01:13:45 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline krum

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #152 on: February 09, 2017, 09:01:24 pm »
Both channels act exactly the same. I expect the seller to act soon, but let's see what will happen...

If you are interested of taking a look on 1.0.24, I can try to upload it somewhere in the cloud.
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #153 on: February 09, 2017, 10:13:16 pm »
Now that's really strange, one channel is reasonably easy to explain as a simple hardware fault, both channels is much harder!

Just one other thing from looking through the menus - you haven't got the probe divide ratio (Function menu > Channel > Probe Rate) set to something silly like X1000? I think I'm out of ideas.

I hope the supplier comes back to you soon.

Yes, it would be interesting to see if I can see any differences in 1.0.24. Thank you!
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 10:16:03 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #154 on: February 10, 2017, 10:41:03 am »
Ok, just one more thought overnight (can you tell it's bugging me?  :)).

Do a full uninstall of 1.0.24, then check that the installation folder is empty / deleted (just in case it has left some settings file). Then do a clean install of 1.0.23 from the website. I'm not sure if this is what you did anyway, or whether you installed 1.0.23 over the top of 1.0.24.

After that it has to be a faulty unit.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 10:48:01 am by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #155 on: February 10, 2017, 12:07:37 pm »
The autoset does not really work most of the time for me too but my scope is definetly not faulty. I guess it is just terrible software.
For me the led flashing pattern is slow blinking red/green when the scope is not initialized and mostly constant green with short red pulses while running so that should be correct.

Maybe do a self calibration and software reset again but i guess something is definetly wrong with you scope when the traces are super high in the 50V setting if i saw that correctly in the video.
If everything fails contact the seller and get a replacement.
 

Offline krum

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #156 on: February 12, 2017, 09:32:09 pm »
Thanks Gyro,  Ultrawipf.
The probes divider was set to 10x initially. I did the deinstall/reinstall on the first laptop and I installed 1.0.23 clean on the second laptop. The behavior of the both channels is the same.

Ultrawipf, now that you have pointed it out, it really looks like the signal is too high.

Well... apparently the unit is defect. Shame, I was willing to setup my newly implanted VR sensor on my oldtimer. Now I will have to wait until the seller responds. Tomorrow evening I will check with them what's going on.
 

Offline ivanlrlukic

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #157 on: February 14, 2017, 03:13:02 pm »
I'be purchased VDS1022 after reading rather positive reviews of it on this forum.

Tried it on Win7 machine and it works OK. Then I tried to install it on dedicated PC that runs XP but without success. Installation simply won't start with error message that says nothing usable. SW version that arrived with device on CD is 1.0.23, the same as on on their site.

I guess XP is (or was) supported since there is official description how to install USB driver for 2000/XP.

Does anybody have, and is willing to share (via drivespace, or...) an older version of SW that supports XP?

Regards, Ivan.
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #158 on: February 15, 2017, 06:23:12 pm »
Hi Ivan,

Welcome.

That's curious, I have two XP (SP3) PCs running the latest 1.0.23 version from the website. What was the error message?
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline ivanlrlukic

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #159 on: February 16, 2017, 08:43:56 am »
Hi Gyro,

it's XP SP3, with 3 GB RAM and 100 GB of free HD space.

AVG AV program disabled.

Error message appears just after installation start, find it attached.

Regards, Ivan.

 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #160 on: February 16, 2017, 12:18:12 pm »
Hi Ivan,

Not such an unusable error message then. Looking on the web, it indicates that the open source installer they use has detected a checksum error in the file:

http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Why_do_I_get_NSIS_Error%3F

At a guess, it's something to do with what you used to unpack the installer .exe file from the downloaded .rar file from the website. I downloaded the 1.0.23 file from the website this morning (Edit: on my XP machine), unpacked it using 7Zip and the installer opened fine.

Your other alternative would be to copy the installer file that you unpacked on your Win7 machine across to your XP machines, because it worked there.

The other thing the page above suggested was the possiblity of virus on the system. I would re-enable your AVG.

Chris


P.S. Just as a precaution, I just scanned the installer exe file itself with AVG2017 and Malwarebytes and according to them it's clean.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2017, 12:48:05 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline krum

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #161 on: February 17, 2017, 05:08:44 pm »
Hi,
a short update, which could be helpful for the future buyers of this oscilloscope. The seller agreed to send a new device. According to him, it will take 8-16 working days to arrive.
He rejected the old device, as the return costs will be too high.

I guess this leaves me with a device to play... Any ideas what and how to check are very welcome. After a surface check nothing looks burned or unsoldered.
 

Offline ivanlrlukic

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #162 on: February 17, 2017, 05:19:23 pm »
At a guess, it's something to do with what you used to unpack the installer .exe file from the downloaded .rar file from the website. I downloaded the 1.0.23 file from the website this morning (Edit: on my XP machine), unpacked it using 7Zip and the installer opened fine.

Chris, you,ve been right on-topic.

Archive was unpacked on XP and everything worked fine since!

Many thanks!
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #163 on: February 17, 2017, 07:20:53 pm »
Well that was a pretty good day then!  :)

@ivanlrlukic:  My pleasure, glad you got it sorted. Mine runs nicely on what is really quite an old XP machine now. Thanks for reporting back.  :-+

@krum:
That sounds like a result too! Make sure you keep an eye on the arrival date just in case it takes you outside ebay or whatever complaint date (I'm sure it will be fine though). An interesting unit to investigate, it was puzzling from the start, I don't think anyone has seen anything like that before, on here anyway.

I wondered about bad firmware, but I'm not sure if there is anything, I think it and the FPGA data all get downloaded over USB at startup... and the PC correcty recognises it and performs most operations correctly anyway.

Looking back to the original teardown, I would download the datasheet for the AD603 variable gain amplifiers and look carefully at the control signals, I still can't see why it would affect both channels though. If we look at it as an production fault though, I would suspect the soldering of the SiM3U156 CPU, maybe the gain control pins are adjacent on a badly soldered side. Maybe also look for missing passives, check against the photos that Mark_O posted as his board revision was later than mine. It would be worth posting some photos, we might be able to spot something (yours might be a later revision too, which would be interesting).

Do please post back on anything you find regardless, getting it going too would be a nice result!
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline CatWhisker

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #164 on: February 21, 2017, 11:09:09 am »
Been faffing in Linux all day.
I'm at the point where the app will recognise the device, but fails (times out) at sending config.
This is the point I got too, before testing in the Mac. If you look at dmesg output, there should be a few "USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed" messages.
Ah, useful - didn't think to check dmesg!

It should have write access and a quick Python script succeeds, but this is just annoying!
What does your Python script do?
I've completely forgot - I don't even remember writing said script now.
I think it was purely a quick way to init and poke at the scope.

The provided libusbJava.so is built for 32bit systems, are you using a 64bit system?

So far, apart from the Mac, in which we already know it works, I've tried:
1) a 64bit Linux (Arch) system with a recent kernel: timeout errors ("USBDEVFS_CONTROL failed ...") early in the device initialization progress.
2) a 32bit Linux (Centos) with an old (2.6) kernel running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: same as 1).
3) a 64bit FreeBSD 11 running inside Virtualbox with the USB device passed through to the guest: didn't work, then worked 1 or 2 times, then never again; even not working, it gets further in the device initialization progress than Linux, the last message shown in the terminal, before stalling, is "+6250 bytes MCU:getFrame 14".
4) same 64bit FreeBSD 11 system running on actual hardware: same results as 3).

I have no idea what made it work once (or twice) in FreeBSD, but it did. it seems this device has some weird USB behavior... after trying to use it in FreeBSD/Linux, it locks the boot process of my notebook (which proceeds promptly after unplugging the device), booting with it plugged in sometimes also prevents Linux from recognizing my wireless keyboard/mouse usb receiver (which also proceeds to work promptly after unplugging it)...

I 'think' I was swapping libusbJava.so for a suitable blob. (As per OS X)
I'd probably guess that the USB implementation on BSD is more forgiving or on-spec than the Linux implementation - closer to the OS X version.
Getting a FreeBSD driver based off the OS X method may be more likely to work?

When it worked 2-3 times, was this concurrent? Or through power cycles (scope unplugged)?
 

Offline pashe

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #165 on: March 20, 2017, 10:53:04 am »
Can't recognize IC U45 - Ethernet controller. Do you have full-size photo?
 

Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #166 on: April 01, 2017, 02:51:58 pm »
I just played around with scpi and it looks like all functions are supported via scpi and you can even send aquired data via scpi pretty fast, so i wonder if it might be possible to realise simple serial decoding or longer data logging for slower signals in a different application.

Does anyone know if there is already something around as it seems to be documented and following some standard?

"*ADC 1" gives you a full length of the current buffer of channel 1 and all the measurement functions like ":meas:max" also work great.
 

Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #167 on: May 11, 2017, 01:50:32 pm »
Hi,

Like many others, this is my first post, and I'd like to thank Gyro and the others for this thread. I just bought my VDS1121 (non-I) due to the reviews here and I'm eagerly waiting for it to arrive to start testing stuff :). In the meantime, I've been checking the software, and I'm very curious about the different changes that Owon might have made between different versions, so I wanted to ask that if people have different versions of the software (unlikely, but who knows) we can just check the source that is provided with it and do a simple diff (I'm actually a Java programmer by day :D). I'd also like to get my hands on the 1.0.24 version of the software, maybe @krum or someone else can provide it somewhere?

Anyway, many thanks again.
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #168 on: May 11, 2017, 02:42:40 pm »
Hi arcnor, welcome to the forum  :)

Glad to have done my bit to help, hopefully I haven't set you up for a dissapointment. If so, I'll try to share the blame! :D

Looking back through my archive, I've used it with software versions since 1.0.4 (the released versions have been 1.0.4, 1.0.8, 1.0.11 and 1.0.23). I've still not seem 1.0.24 on the website either, so no idea what improvement they might have added on the most recent CD version.  I'm currently running 1.0.23 and haven't found any bugs in it as yet.

As you've probably noticed, Owon are hopeless at doing release notes, there are also some big gaps in the released numbers, meaning that there must have been a lot of internal versions in between.

In terms of changes, it hindsight it's difficult to remember them in detail, I think they have mostly been bugfixes. There was a problem in 1.0.4 with single shot triggering I think, fixed in 1.0.8.  I do remember that 1.0.8 added the ability to maximise the window, however it also introduced a bug which made one of the settings windows very slow to open (for me anyway), this got fixed in 1.0.11. I think at some point SCPI support possibly got included too, but I may not have noticed it previously. Another thing that has probably changed is inclusion of newer scopes like the VDS1062. Although there are different releases for different scopes, I think this is because they include different downloadable firmware for the different hardware platforms, hopefully they are now all using the same PC s/w code by now.

Having a full-time Java programmer on board could be very useful. As Owon seem to have managed to accidentally include the source code in their releases there are probably all sorts of useful tweaks that could be made. A few more shortcuts would be useful for instance... and the other big one, adding single shot triggering at slow (chart recorder mode) timebases - that one is probably tied up in firmware though.

Do please report back on your impressions after it arrives and anything useful you dig up in the code.  :-+


P.S. You might be able to help with the porting to Linux too, is sounds as if it very nearly works.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 02:47:11 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #169 on: May 11, 2017, 10:12:11 pm »
Hi arcnor, welcome to the forum  :)

Hi Gyro, thanks!

Glad to have done my bit to help, hopefully I haven't set you up for a dissapointment. If so, I'll try to share the blame! :D

If you did, I'll make sure to complain about the free advice loudly here! ;)

Looking back through my archive, I've used it with software versions since 1.0.4 (the released versions have been 1.0.4, 1.0.8, 1.0.11 and 1.0.23). I've still not seem 1.0.24 on the website either, so no idea what improvement they might have added on the most recent CD version.  I'm currently running 1.0.23 and haven't found any bugs in it as yet.

As you've probably noticed, Owon are hopeless at doing release notes, there are also some big gaps in the released numbers, meaning that there must have been a lot of internal versions in between.

In terms of changes, it hindsight it's difficult to remember them in detail, I think they have mostly been bugfixes. There was a problem in 1.0.4 with single shot triggering I think, fixed in 1.0.8.  I do remember that 1.0.8 added the ability to maximise the window, however it also introduced a bug which made one of the settings windows very slow to open (for me anyway), this got fixed in 1.0.11. I think at some point SCPI support possibly got included too, but I may not have noticed it previously. Another thing that has probably changed is inclusion of newer scopes like the VDS1062. Although there are different releases for different scopes, I think this is because they include different downloadable firmware for the different hardware platforms, hopefully they are now all using the same PC s/w code by now.

Will you be able to share those versions if you still have them around, or at least the files with "*_source*" on them (besides the Eclipse ones, which we don't care about)? I'm interested in seeing the progress, mostly curiosity, but you never know if they added some feature than they later removed, for example (I've obviously seen this before :D)

Having a full-time Java programmer on board could be very useful. As Owon seem to have managed to accidentally include the source code in their releases there are probably all sorts of useful tweaks that could be made. A few more shortcuts would be useful for instance... and the other big one, adding single shot triggering at slow (chart recorder mode) timebases - that one is probably tied up in firmware though.

I'll be glad to help if there are things worth changing. The only "problem" is that I know nearly nothing about oscilloscopes (yesterday I learned why you cannot just connect wires to the scope, and that 1x and 10x probes are a thing :P) so I don't really understand that second thing you mentioned. Good thing is that knowledge can be acquired, so I'm hoping that with clear instructions I'll be able to do interesting changes if needed :).

Do please report back on your impressions after it arrives and anything useful you dig up in the code.  :-+


P.S. You might be able to help with the porting to Linux too, is sounds as if it very nearly works.

After reading the code a bit I might setup a build system for it, that might even fix the Linux problem on its own, but I'll check.

Thanks!
 

Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #170 on: May 12, 2017, 09:58:23 am »
So, after checking the code for a while, I've reached the conclusion that whoever did this didn't know how to Java, really... For those that know Java, it seems that they've added Swing inside SWT, which is nuts. For those that don't understand me, this is like driving a car that you've mounted inside another car. They only use Eclipse to run the Swing software, so in the end 80% of the files they have in there are useless :P.

In some other news, it seems this software was also used by another company (which might be the same one in the end or something?) called SainSmart, specifically for a product called VPO1025. If you check the images on their product page (https://www.sainsmart.com/sainsmart-vpo1025-pen-type-handheld-oscilloscope-25mhz-100ms-s-usb-dso.html) you'll see a very familiar interface. Also, Owon seems to have a very similar product called RDS1021(I) (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ParentID=79&SortID=84&ProID=179) which I'm sure it's the same product behind all that yellow plastic.

I've also checked their latest software, and finally they've removed the source code and obfuscated the binaries (because Java code can trivially be converted back to compilable form. Even without that source we found, the code for the VDS1022 is practically the same after decompiling, minus the Chinese comments :D)

I've created a build process for the code, removed all that Eclipse cruft and everything runs exactly the same as before, except the USB connection. I'm converting that to a more standard Java USB library, which is way harder than just replacing the proper libraries, but will allow us to run this anywhere (for example, ARM, so this can run on a Raspberry Pi). Until I receive my own oscilloscope in about 2 weeks I won't be able to verify that everything works, of course.

Anyway, that's what I've found in general :).
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #171 on: May 12, 2017, 10:44:00 am »
Well that seems pretty good progress for your first day!  ;D

I'm happy to share the old versions with you (if you still need them at this stage), I guess it really ought to be by PM rather than publicly as they no longer release them. Also they're around 40MB a time, even the folder with the JAR files in is 25MB. I'm not big on the whole cloud thing (or Java!) but if you can either PM me a dropbox type location and password or whatever then I'll happily dump them in there. Alternatively a temporary email address that will accept files of that size.

Interesting about the SainSmart connection, you're the first one to spot that. It is indeed a strange relationship that these Chinese competitor companies have - Sainsmart have recently taken to blatantly copying JYE Tech products, so I'm not surprised to see OWON code in there too. Confusing, there appear to be all sorts of colaborations / downright thefts.

It sounds as if you may be on the road to streamlining the s/w a lot - great progress.  :-+


P.S. Don't worry about the scope probes, it comes with a reasonably decent set. There are plenty of threads on here covering safe use of a scope.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 10:45:56 am by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #172 on: May 12, 2017, 11:39:42 am »
Yeah, it's been productive, but I think I'm almost all out of low hanging fruit at this point :).

I'd like to try something, though. I've seen that when changing the size of the window, the software starts to behave strangely. For example, when making it bigger, the pixels get bigger instead of being able to see more of the signal, which should be the normal behavior. I've also seen that you can load files onto the software, so I was wondering if somebody can share with me a record of some kind of signal, just to verify my assumption that this can be fixed :D.

Oh, and I've also found that there is another OWON product that is supposed to work with the software, maybe an older version of the RDS1021 called VPS021. I've only found references on Aliexpress and on the Chinese version of the OWON homepage...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 11:42:26 am by arcnor »
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #173 on: May 12, 2017, 01:52:58 pm »
You have a couple of PMs, only the second one giving what you want!  ::)

I've attached a saved waveform file - channel 1 is a sawtooth and channel 2 just mains noise pickup, but will hopefully give you something to play with...
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #174 on: May 12, 2017, 01:54:24 pm »
Awesome, thanks! I'll take a look. I replied to both your PMs, but I'm not sure you saw the replies (maybe I did something wrong, no idea).
 


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