Author Topic: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)  (Read 121275 times)

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Offline pashe

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #175 on: March 20, 2017, 10:53:04 am »
Can't recognize IC U45 - Ethernet controller. Do you have full-size photo?
 

Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #176 on: April 01, 2017, 02:51:58 pm »
I just played around with scpi and it looks like all functions are supported via scpi and you can even send aquired data via scpi pretty fast, so i wonder if it might be possible to realise simple serial decoding or longer data logging for slower signals in a different application.

Does anyone know if there is already something around as it seems to be documented and following some standard?

"*ADC 1" gives you a full length of the current buffer of channel 1 and all the measurement functions like ":meas:max" also work great.
 

Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #177 on: May 11, 2017, 01:50:32 pm »
Hi,

Like many others, this is my first post, and I'd like to thank Gyro and the others for this thread. I just bought my VDS1121 (non-I) due to the reviews here and I'm eagerly waiting for it to arrive to start testing stuff :). In the meantime, I've been checking the software, and I'm very curious about the different changes that Owon might have made between different versions, so I wanted to ask that if people have different versions of the software (unlikely, but who knows) we can just check the source that is provided with it and do a simple diff (I'm actually a Java programmer by day :D). I'd also like to get my hands on the 1.0.24 version of the software, maybe @krum or someone else can provide it somewhere?

Anyway, many thanks again.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #178 on: May 11, 2017, 02:42:40 pm »
Hi arcnor, welcome to the forum  :)

Glad to have done my bit to help, hopefully I haven't set you up for a dissapointment. If so, I'll try to share the blame! :D

Looking back through my archive, I've used it with software versions since 1.0.4 (the released versions have been 1.0.4, 1.0.8, 1.0.11 and 1.0.23). I've still not seem 1.0.24 on the website either, so no idea what improvement they might have added on the most recent CD version.  I'm currently running 1.0.23 and haven't found any bugs in it as yet.

As you've probably noticed, Owon are hopeless at doing release notes, there are also some big gaps in the released numbers, meaning that there must have been a lot of internal versions in between.

In terms of changes, it hindsight it's difficult to remember them in detail, I think they have mostly been bugfixes. There was a problem in 1.0.4 with single shot triggering I think, fixed in 1.0.8.  I do remember that 1.0.8 added the ability to maximise the window, however it also introduced a bug which made one of the settings windows very slow to open (for me anyway), this got fixed in 1.0.11. I think at some point SCPI support possibly got included too, but I may not have noticed it previously. Another thing that has probably changed is inclusion of newer scopes like the VDS1062. Although there are different releases for different scopes, I think this is because they include different downloadable firmware for the different hardware platforms, hopefully they are now all using the same PC s/w code by now.

Having a full-time Java programmer on board could be very useful. As Owon seem to have managed to accidentally include the source code in their releases there are probably all sorts of useful tweaks that could be made. A few more shortcuts would be useful for instance... and the other big one, adding single shot triggering at slow (chart recorder mode) timebases - that one is probably tied up in firmware though.

Do please report back on your impressions after it arrives and anything useful you dig up in the code.  :-+


P.S. You might be able to help with the porting to Linux too, is sounds as if it very nearly works.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 02:47:11 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #179 on: May 11, 2017, 10:12:11 pm »
Hi arcnor, welcome to the forum  :)

Hi Gyro, thanks!

Glad to have done my bit to help, hopefully I haven't set you up for a dissapointment. If so, I'll try to share the blame! :D

If you did, I'll make sure to complain about the free advice loudly here! ;)

Looking back through my archive, I've used it with software versions since 1.0.4 (the released versions have been 1.0.4, 1.0.8, 1.0.11 and 1.0.23). I've still not seem 1.0.24 on the website either, so no idea what improvement they might have added on the most recent CD version.  I'm currently running 1.0.23 and haven't found any bugs in it as yet.

As you've probably noticed, Owon are hopeless at doing release notes, there are also some big gaps in the released numbers, meaning that there must have been a lot of internal versions in between.

In terms of changes, it hindsight it's difficult to remember them in detail, I think they have mostly been bugfixes. There was a problem in 1.0.4 with single shot triggering I think, fixed in 1.0.8.  I do remember that 1.0.8 added the ability to maximise the window, however it also introduced a bug which made one of the settings windows very slow to open (for me anyway), this got fixed in 1.0.11. I think at some point SCPI support possibly got included too, but I may not have noticed it previously. Another thing that has probably changed is inclusion of newer scopes like the VDS1062. Although there are different releases for different scopes, I think this is because they include different downloadable firmware for the different hardware platforms, hopefully they are now all using the same PC s/w code by now.

Will you be able to share those versions if you still have them around, or at least the files with "*_source*" on them (besides the Eclipse ones, which we don't care about)? I'm interested in seeing the progress, mostly curiosity, but you never know if they added some feature than they later removed, for example (I've obviously seen this before :D)

Having a full-time Java programmer on board could be very useful. As Owon seem to have managed to accidentally include the source code in their releases there are probably all sorts of useful tweaks that could be made. A few more shortcuts would be useful for instance... and the other big one, adding single shot triggering at slow (chart recorder mode) timebases - that one is probably tied up in firmware though.

I'll be glad to help if there are things worth changing. The only "problem" is that I know nearly nothing about oscilloscopes (yesterday I learned why you cannot just connect wires to the scope, and that 1x and 10x probes are a thing :P) so I don't really understand that second thing you mentioned. Good thing is that knowledge can be acquired, so I'm hoping that with clear instructions I'll be able to do interesting changes if needed :).

Do please report back on your impressions after it arrives and anything useful you dig up in the code.  :-+


P.S. You might be able to help with the porting to Linux too, is sounds as if it very nearly works.

After reading the code a bit I might setup a build system for it, that might even fix the Linux problem on its own, but I'll check.

Thanks!
 

Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #180 on: May 12, 2017, 09:58:23 am »
So, after checking the code for a while, I've reached the conclusion that whoever did this didn't know how to Java, really... For those that know Java, it seems that they've added Swing inside SWT, which is nuts. For those that don't understand me, this is like driving a car that you've mounted inside another car. They only use Eclipse to run the Swing software, so in the end 80% of the files they have in there are useless :P.

In some other news, it seems this software was also used by another company (which might be the same one in the end or something?) called SainSmart, specifically for a product called VPO1025. If you check the images on their product page (https://www.sainsmart.com/sainsmart-vpo1025-pen-type-handheld-oscilloscope-25mhz-100ms-s-usb-dso.html) you'll see a very familiar interface. Also, Owon seems to have a very similar product called RDS1021(I) (http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ParentID=79&SortID=84&ProID=179) which I'm sure it's the same product behind all that yellow plastic.

I've also checked their latest software, and finally they've removed the source code and obfuscated the binaries (because Java code can trivially be converted back to compilable form. Even without that source we found, the code for the VDS1022 is practically the same after decompiling, minus the Chinese comments :D)

I've created a build process for the code, removed all that Eclipse cruft and everything runs exactly the same as before, except the USB connection. I'm converting that to a more standard Java USB library, which is way harder than just replacing the proper libraries, but will allow us to run this anywhere (for example, ARM, so this can run on a Raspberry Pi). Until I receive my own oscilloscope in about 2 weeks I won't be able to verify that everything works, of course.

Anyway, that's what I've found in general :).
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #181 on: May 12, 2017, 10:44:00 am »
Well that seems pretty good progress for your first day!  ;D

I'm happy to share the old versions with you (if you still need them at this stage), I guess it really ought to be by PM rather than publicly as they no longer release them. Also they're around 40MB a time, even the folder with the JAR files in is 25MB. I'm not big on the whole cloud thing (or Java!) but if you can either PM me a dropbox type location and password or whatever then I'll happily dump them in there. Alternatively a temporary email address that will accept files of that size.

Interesting about the SainSmart connection, you're the first one to spot that. It is indeed a strange relationship that these Chinese competitor companies have - Sainsmart have recently taken to blatantly copying JYE Tech products, so I'm not surprised to see OWON code in there too. Confusing, there appear to be all sorts of colaborations / downright thefts.

It sounds as if you may be on the road to streamlining the s/w a lot - great progress.  :-+


P.S. Don't worry about the scope probes, it comes with a reasonably decent set. There are plenty of threads on here covering safe use of a scope.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 10:45:56 am by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #182 on: May 12, 2017, 11:39:42 am »
Yeah, it's been productive, but I think I'm almost all out of low hanging fruit at this point :).

I'd like to try something, though. I've seen that when changing the size of the window, the software starts to behave strangely. For example, when making it bigger, the pixels get bigger instead of being able to see more of the signal, which should be the normal behavior. I've also seen that you can load files onto the software, so I was wondering if somebody can share with me a record of some kind of signal, just to verify my assumption that this can be fixed :D.

Oh, and I've also found that there is another OWON product that is supposed to work with the software, maybe an older version of the RDS1021 called VPS021. I've only found references on Aliexpress and on the Chinese version of the OWON homepage...
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 11:42:26 am by arcnor »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #183 on: May 12, 2017, 01:52:58 pm »
You have a couple of PMs, only the second one giving what you want!  ::)

I've attached a saved waveform file - channel 1 is a sawtooth and channel 2 just mains noise pickup, but will hopefully give you something to play with...
Chris

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Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #184 on: May 12, 2017, 01:54:24 pm »
Awesome, thanks! I'll take a look. I replied to both your PMs, but I'm not sure you saw the replies (maybe I did something wrong, no idea).
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #185 on: May 12, 2017, 02:01:48 pm »
Ah yes, I see them now, thanks. Hope it helps.

Chris
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Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #186 on: May 13, 2017, 08:49:32 am »
Hey arcnor,
Awesome that we have activity again and i can confirm the code is ugly ;)
I have not done very much with it apart from looking for more information, adding new shortcuts for trigger position, start/stop and single trigger.

You are exactly the one we need to take this software apart further and find out more about the protocols  :-+
 

Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #187 on: May 13, 2017, 09:16:56 am »
Hey Ultrawipf, thanks!

You are exactly the one we need to take this software apart further and find out more about the protocols  :-+

What do you mean by "find out more about the protocols"? I thought the protocol was already known? Or is the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual" not complete? http://bikealive.nl/tl_files/EmbeddedSystems/Test_Measurement/owon/OWON%20Oscilloscope%20PC%20Guidance%20Manual.pdf in case you haven't seen that before, but I thought I read about this document on this thread, although I might be wrong (I did a *lot* of reading before buying this thing, and now my memory is blurry :D)

In any case, I think it will be better at some point to have some sort of common repository if there is a general interest on this, although the legality of it is what I'm worried about...
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #188 on: May 13, 2017, 09:48:45 am »
Quote
Or is the "OWON Oscilloscope PC Guidance Manual"

Hey, that's a new one on me - I'd only found the SCPI Protocol manual.

Edit: Or at least, didn't realize it related to the VDS models - I thought it was just for the USB interface in their desktop models. The VDSxxxx models aren't listed in the SPBWxx string (section 3.1.1 Model).
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 09:54:11 am by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #189 on: May 13, 2017, 11:11:52 am »
You might be right, the VDS1022 is not mentioned on that doc. However, I'll be very surprised if they changed it much. The "STARTMEMDEPTH" command (among others) is also on the code, although commented. In any case, it should not be complicated to find out how the protocol works, I'll try to document it after I receive mine.
 

Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #190 on: May 13, 2017, 12:20:51 pm »
So, for today I've managed to find where the rendering takes place, and I've tried to improve it a bit, as I find it extremely ugly, although I feel like I'm missing something and there is a reason for it to look like this.

I've added an example of how it looked before (very "chunky") and how it looks "cleaned" (ignore the problems with the grid, I'm doing some tests with it).

From what I've seen, the software is using 4 vertical samples per horizontal value, but I fail to see why... Also, at least with this example, there seems to be a vertical resolution of only 64 values (6 bits).

Is this how this normally looks, or maybe I have something wrong somewhere?
 

Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #191 on: May 13, 2017, 05:46:51 pm »
Oh. that document is new to me. But it seems to only mention the standalone scopes and not the vds series and they seem to use a different control software.
I found almost no info about the vds but there is a lot known about the sds/pds/hds so i assumed there are bigger differences.

The 4 values per horizontal point might be related to zooming in while paused without having a separate buffer. Maybe i look into the code again later but i find it pretty hard to find anything specific in that bunch of files.
 

Offline pjhsv

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #192 on: May 18, 2017, 06:10:26 am »
Hi All,

Bought this scope based on the how to set up a lab cheaply video blog, and from this forum. I have it working on my PC, but I can't seem to get it working on my mac. For context, I have an IT background, and intermediate Linux, but Mac is basically beginner/end-user.

The app fires up, but I can't seem to get the device detected. Does anyone have any troubleshooting tips?
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #193 on: May 18, 2017, 09:12:59 pm »
Hi pjhsv,

I'm assuming that, if you are trying to run it on a MAC, you are doing it based on CatWisker's posts and github repository:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/owon-vds1022i-quick-teardown-(versus-the-hantek-6022be)/msg1096866/?topicseen#msg1096866

If so, then you might want to PM him directly.
Chris

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Offline pjhsv

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #194 on: May 19, 2017, 09:26:49 am »
Yes, that is the post. And yes, I've PM'd him directly. Thanks :)
 

Offline arcnor

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #195 on: May 25, 2017, 09:26:17 pm »
So finally, I've received my VDS1022. And I'm surprised I did, because they sent it without any packaging, just the bare (and flimsy) box it comes in.

Anyway, as for the software, I did some fixes to my code and managed to make it work on OSX. Boring I know, somebody else already did this. However, my version should even work on Linux, including ARM devices (like a Raspberry for example, although I don't have any to test this on). It's also stopping to work after a while, and I'm not sure yet if it's because my code or because I have it connected through 2 hubs.

In any case, I have some questions:
1. When I connected it to another computer, it uploaded some FPGA firmware. I don't remember that happening on the first computer I connected this to. Does anybody know if theirs also got updated when they connected it? I can check the code, but it's a mess :)
2. When doing the self calibration, the device itself made some scaring clicks. Is that normal at all? It sounded like some sort of relay switching, although as I said I'm no analog electronics person.
3. The device seems noisy, although this is probably expected, but it will help me if somebody can post an screenshot of the calibrating pattern with the provided probes, to see that my thing is not completely broken :D (it's also not the isolated version, but I read a few pages back that this should not affect noise by a lot? No idea, of course)

Anyway, that's all for now, thank you in advance!
 

Offline Ultrawipf

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #196 on: May 26, 2017, 01:01:58 pm »
1. I am pretty sure it does not store the fpga firmware in it and always has to load it after starting up. The led blinks red if it was not initialized and after the software was started once and uploaded the firmware it goes into normal operation.
2. Relay clicking is normal when calibrating and changing voltage levels.
3. After calibration without anything connected to the probe it does not seem to be very noisy apart from the usual 50hz ambient noise on the very sensitive settings.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #197 on: May 26, 2017, 02:08:54 pm »
Yes, what Ultrawipf said - it's my understanding too that it downloads the FPGA code every time you connect and start it up. Yes it does have relays (AC/DC coupling and range) in the front-ends which do click a bit during cal.

You'll get lots of noise on the lowest settings with the probes open - there's lot's more floating in the air than just 50Hz (more these days with SMPSs and other stuff everywhere). It should quieten down if you sort the ground clip to the tip - but not completely, it still forms a wire loop.

I posted traces of what I get with the inputs shorted (50R BNC terminators) directly on the scope on the first page of this thread (replies #2 and 3). You won't get quite as  quiet with the probes attached and tips grounded to the earth clips.

The 1kHz probe compensation output should give you nice clean waveforms. The first thing you should do is compensate the probes to match the input capacitance of the scope - nice square traces (no overshoot or rounding).  Post some images if you have problems.

I hope your new version does work with linux too, that should please a few folks.  :-+
Chris

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Offline MBY

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #198 on: July 12, 2017, 06:24:21 pm »
Has anybody made any progress on linux? I have spent hours playing with libusbJava and other things I don't understand without any progress. Any combination fails to detect the scope with some error or another. Perhaps the most interesting(?) one is "ch.ntb.usb.USBException: LibusbJava.usb_set_configuration: could not set config 1: Broken pipe". That sounds like something maybe something can work.

Another thing. I usually cannot zoom from single triggering. If I single capture something changing the time base doesn't zoom or anything. Except sometimes. Stopping from "run" and changing time base works as expected. Every time.

It is hopeless to find out which version of the program one is running. I think my version is 1.3.0 (that is what the launcher jar file says), or 1.0.27 (what the install win exe says). Haven't found any "about" in the program itself.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #199 on: July 23, 2017, 02:02:21 pm »
A client of mine has the Owon VDS1022 version (so non-isolated).
He was wondering if he could just buy a third party USB isolator adapter to make this thing isolated.
Do you guys know if that would work (with the software and all)?

I personally don't really see no reason why it wouldn't.
"If you can't explain it simply (or at all), you don't understand it well enough." A. Einstein

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