Author Topic: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)  (Read 126125 times)

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Offline martinloren2

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #275 on: December 19, 2018, 10:48:50 am »
There must surely be a mechanism at work otherwise there would be no way of syncing correctly to the display.

It seems that the current mechanism is simply to plot on screen the 5K sample buffer as it is. The FPGA write on the buffer in a loop and send it properly shifted to the App that simply show is as is on the screen. No synchronization required, it just show you the fixed buffer while it is overwritten with new values. So visually maybe your eyes can follow it but programmatically it may require cross correlation with a window made of a group of latest samples  :palm:.

The other option would be if other commands are present in the firmware (but not used buy the current software). In the original jar package there is a class called InfiniteGetData that seems to do this but seems also to be old, it is unused and if send these commands to the device they does not work.
 

Offline DDunfield

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #276 on: December 19, 2018, 04:19:52 pm »
Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.

Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes...  The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.

I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?

I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.

Thanks for the info. So far I've not noticed anything new past 1.0.23 either.

I have tried setting the timebase back to the original capture before proceeding, and it still hangs. Very odd - even 5k points is worth being able to zoom in (my TDS210 has only 2.5k and I zoom in with it all the time).

I'd be curious to know if you can reproduce the issue - just do a capture, stop the scope, adjust horizontal to "zoom in", then just start the scope again. For me it hangs very often. 1.0.23 recovers quite quickly, but you will still see a reconnecting message ... just would like to confirm it's not something "special" about my scope/setup.

Dave
 

Offline DDunfield

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #277 on: December 19, 2018, 04:27:40 pm »
I've found that the latest VDS1022 firmware seems do not allow incremental transfer of the new data in slow sampling rate mode. It just continuously write on the 5K data buffer in loop without any indication of the current cursor position |O. This make impossible to do continuous data recording and if so it's a bit a pity for so well equipped hardware.

Any hint about this?

By the way I'm implementing the support for the VDS1022 under Android. I'm wondering if any wish to do some test :bullshit:, I may provide some promo codes to the first who ask @ support[at]martinloren.com. It requires USB OTG and maybe some powered USB HUB if phone current from USB is not enough :D.

They obviously go into a different capture mode at slower than 50ms / division. Mine switches to continuous no-trigger roll mode.

It is common for digital scopes to capture a buffer, then stop and display it, and I guess they decided the delay between trigger and end of capture/display was too long at slower rates. My UT-81B does the same thing, at 100ms/div and below it no longer triggers, but captures continuously.

I don't know why they don't do it better, as losing triggering at slow rates is annoying.

I designed a little STM32 based scope, and while capturing, I just watch the DMA  buffer pointer registers and display the data as it gets buffered. At high rates, the display lags the actual capture, but it's still just as fast (slightly faster) than waiting for the whole capture before dumping the buffer, and there's no issue with slow rates - the display gets updated as the samples come in....

I would be very interested in an Android port - I would love to be able to use this thing with a tablet. I have an OTG adapter which provides a USB host port, and can provide external power, I think it would probably work fine for interfacing to the scope.

Dave
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #278 on: December 19, 2018, 05:48:17 pm »
Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.

Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes...  The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.

I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?

I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.

Thanks for the info. So far I've not noticed anything new past 1.0.23 either.

I have tried setting the timebase back to the original capture before proceeding, and it still hangs. Very odd - even 5k points is worth being able to zoom in (my TDS210 has only 2.5k and I zoom in with it all the time).

I'd be curious to know if you can reproduce the issue - just do a capture, stop the scope, adjust horizontal to "zoom in", then just start the scope again. For me it hangs very often. 1.0.23 recovers quite quickly, but you will still see a reconnecting message ... just would like to confirm it's not something "special" about my scope/setup.

Dave

Sorry for my lethargy last night, I'm fighting a bit of an infection.

Odd, I had installed 1.0.30 when I saw it, but hadn't got as far as plugging in the VDS. I just tried it (1kHz cal, Ch1) and came up with some strange results. It auto triggered ok, but when I hit stop and then clicked on the timebase it crashed immediately and repeatably. For some reason single trace was greyed out too.

I uninstalled 1.0.30 and installed 1.0.29, tried exactly the same and it worked perfectly. Manual or single trigger, whatever timebase I zoomed to after stopping and restarting. Never flinched.

Thinking it was another introduced 'breakage' I was set to confirming it by re-installing 1.0.30 (uninstalling 1.0.29 first). To my surprise if now finding that 1.0.30 works perfectly too.  ???  I've tried it many times in succession with across a silly range of zooms / unzooms and it hasn't missed a beat.

The only differences I can think of are..

1. I did the first 1.0.30 installation 'cold', thinking I must get around to plugging in and checking that (in fact I had to use the install F/W option before it would see the VDS). I think it may actually have been a 'clean install' as I've only recently brought this laptop up. This time, I did all the uninstalls / reinstalls with the VDS still plugged in.
2. The VDS had a few minutes to warm up before I uninstalled 1.0.29
3. 1.0.29 might have left something in the registry that 1.0.30 needs?

This is all on Win7 SP1 64bit pro by the way.

You might want to check for USB supply voltage, but I'm pushing my luck with a 3m USB cable at the moment so that sounds unlikely. Maybe try a different port though.

Sorry I couldn't give you a definitive they broke it in Version xxxx.


P.S. Just to be clear, I haven't seen any reconnect message - I think you may indeed have a setup issue.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2018, 05:56:30 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline DDunfield

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #279 on: December 27, 2018, 03:12:44 am »
Dave, thanks for coming back and reporting you impressions, glad it lived up to expectations as there is still precious little review info out there.

Looking back at the notes I made when I linked my previous versions, I noted that 1.0.23 was stable for me, later versions have seemed to concentrate on breaking an then fixing features. I don't remember seeing any new features on later versions. My guess is that the later releases have been more to do with achieving some level of common code base with the newer, higher bandwidth models, I suspect that the VDS1022 was 'complete' by 1.0.23. I don't know anything else for sure though, and in the absence of any release notes...  The only way to know for sure is to dig into the code.

I haven't experienced the zoom followed by hang on capture issued - not something I've done to be honest. My suspicion is that if you're getting into a situation where timebase changes and the stored waveform doesn't, then the scope and s/w are likely to end up with different understandings of what the timebase actually is! potentially causing the hang. Have you tried restoring the timebase setting to what it was for the previous capture?

I haven't done much with the versions since 1.0.23 apart from the 'breakages' I mentioned (the reason for archiving them!). Not because I've outgrown it - I just haven't spent much time in my lab.

Thanks for the info. So far I've not noticed anything new past 1.0.23 either.

I have tried setting the timebase back to the original capture before proceeding, and it still hangs. Very odd - even 5k points is worth being able to zoom in (my TDS210 has only 2.5k and I zoom in with it all the time).

I'd be curious to know if you can reproduce the issue - just do a capture, stop the scope, adjust horizontal to "zoom in", then just start the scope again. For me it hangs very often. 1.0.23 recovers quite quickly, but you will still see a reconnecting message ... just would like to confirm it's not something "special" about my scope/setup.

Dave

Sorry for my lethargy last night, I'm fighting a bit of an infection.

Odd, I had installed 1.0.30 when I saw it, but hadn't got as far as plugging in the VDS. I just tried it (1kHz cal, Ch1) and came up with some strange results. It auto triggered ok, but when I hit stop and then clicked on the timebase it crashed immediately and repeatably. For some reason single trace was greyed out too.

I uninstalled 1.0.30 and installed 1.0.29, tried exactly the same and it worked perfectly. Manual or single trigger, whatever timebase I zoomed to after stopping and restarting. Never flinched.

Thinking it was another introduced 'breakage' I was set to confirming it by re-installing 1.0.30 (uninstalling 1.0.29 first). To my surprise if now finding that 1.0.30 works perfectly too.  ???  I've tried it many times in succession with across a silly range of zooms / unzooms and it hasn't missed a beat.

The only differences I can think of are..

1. I did the first 1.0.30 installation 'cold', thinking I must get around to plugging in and checking that (in fact I had to use the install F/W option before it would see the VDS). I think it may actually have been a 'clean install' as I've only recently brought this laptop up. This time, I did all the uninstalls / reinstalls with the VDS still plugged in.
2. The VDS had a few minutes to warm up before I uninstalled 1.0.29
3. 1.0.29 might have left something in the registry that 1.0.30 needs?

This is all on Win7 SP1 64bit pro by the way.

You might want to check for USB supply voltage, but I'm pushing my luck with a 3m USB cable at the moment so that sounds unlikely. Maybe try a different port though.

Sorry I couldn't give you a definitive they broke it in Version xxxx.

P.S. Just to be clear, I haven't seen any reconnect message - I think you may indeed have a setup issue.

Very strange... I've tried it on four different systems now with exactly the same results.
I too am using Win7-64 Pro (and on some of the systems Win7-64 home).

I've tried the cable that came with it, as well as other cables.
I measure about 0.36 amps, which is well within the 500ma spec. for a single USB port, let alone the dual port configuration of the supplied cable.

I've tried installing the driver that is included with the software, and the one(s) posted on the OWON web site.

I have determined that the two things I'm observing are unrelated.

Inability to zoom in/out is intermittent on later versions (sometimes works) but almost always works on 1.0.23.

The disconnect occurs when I stop the scope, and does not relate to zooming.

Once I press the RUN/STOP button (Upper right, turns from PAUSE to PLAY when scope stops), about 10 seconds later I get the "USB device has disconnected" sound from windows.
This ONLY occurs if I STOP the scope. If I set it to "normal" trigger and don't trigger it (so no capturing going on), the disconnect problem does NOT occur.

If I have device manager open when the disconnect occurs, it refreshes, but the scope stays visible (assuming it's a very brief disconnect).

When I press RUN/STOP again to start the scope, after a couple of seconds, I get a message window at the top "Write content err. and disconnect X" (this is the same message you get it you pull the USB cable while running, followed by one saying "Choose USB port ... (clears too quickly to read all of it)", followed by one saying "Initializing..." (same as when scope starts) and the scope starts running. This is with 10.0.23 - later versions  usually hang at this point.

Before I install the drivers, it shows as "USB device" under "Other devices", NOT as "Oscilloscope" is described in the OWON driver installation document.
Once installed, the scope shows as "USB device" under "libusb-win32 devices" as described in the document.

I have not found an "Install F/W" option in the software ... I note that each software release has a directory called "$_OUTDIR/fpga/vds1022" which contains a large .bin file - I thought this was the firmware for the scope and is auto-loaded during "Initializing..." Is there some other option to install Firmware on the scope?

The "Install USB driver" option accessed via the state indicator in the upper left does not work, it runs a batch file which fails with access violations. I installed the driver by going to the scope device with device manager, and manually selecting the USB driver directory - this is the procedure documented in OWON's "USB_Driver_Install_Guide _V1.3".

It's funny ... perhaps I got a bad one, but in all other respects it seems to work fine.

Dave
 

Offline DDunfield

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #280 on: December 27, 2018, 12:58:03 pm »
A bit more information:

There is a red LED at the top/back of the unit near the unused LAN cutout. This LED does not appear to be mentioned in the VDS_Series_User_Manual.

This LED comes on and flashes slowly when you first plug in the unit, then goes OFF and stays OFF when you launch the software and it finds/initializes it.

When I STOP the scope, 10 seconds later the "USB disconnect" sound plays, and the LED comes ON at exactly the same time, then resumes flashing slowly.

When I attempt to re-START the scope, it has to find/initialize it as described in my previous message, and the LED goes OFF, just as when first launching the software.

The same thing happens ("USB disconnect sound" and LED on) 10 seconds after I close the software with the scope running.

It almost seems to me that there is some sort of watchdog on communication and the scope is resetting or otherwise entering into some sort of fault/recovery state after 10 seconds of no communication.
As I would expect this to be a software thing, it should be happening on all VDS1022's, not just mine.

Could someone else with a VDS1022I try this and confirm that you DO or DO NOT get the LED coming back on after you STOP the scope (make sure the status in upper left changes to "STOP"). It happens for me after about 10 seconds.

I'm trying to determine if this one is defective or not.

Thanks,

Dave

PS: A couple other observations:

USBlogview does NOT show a disconnect and reconnect when the "USB disconnect" sound plays and the LED comes on. Device manager DOES refresh indicating that a device has changed status. I note that USBlogview has a short delay before it reports devices connecting and disconnecting, so it may be filtering what it determines to be a transient event.


As long as I don't STOP the scope, the problem does not occur.

If I use NORMAL trigger, and do not provide any trigger events after the initial capture, the scope remains connected even though it is not performing a capture (it must however be capturing in background as it would need to be recording pre-trigger events for the next capture). It this state, I can even ZOOM using the "AssistSet/Zoom" functions in the Horizontal menu, which:

  - Proves that the software is capable of ZOOMing on the last captured waveform.

  - Is much more easy/convenient that fooling with the timebase settings.

I have no idea why OWON blocks using ZOOM when you STOP the scope, as it is clearly possible in the software, and would be a very useful thing to have.

This (staying in normal trigger) is not a good workaround because:

  - Can be hard to prevent additional triggers, which wipe out capture you are trying to examine.

  - Single-shot capture automatically changes to STOP following trigger.


Minor bug discovered while investigating this:

With trigger set to AUTO (or a source which triggers applied) and scope STOPped, use status menu to disconnect and reconnect scope. Scope begins capturing, but Run/Stop button still shows START - you have to press it twice to stop scope.
 

Offline DDunfield

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #281 on: December 28, 2018, 10:02:10 am »
I guess you just need to know when to stop digging yourself in further!

When I first got the VDS1022I as with any other modern product, I ignored the DVD that came with it, and downloaded the latest version (1.0.30) and USB driver directly from OWON's site. I installed the USB driver, then the software, and it "mostly" worked. but I had the strange disconnect problem described in preceding posts.

Last evening, thinking it might be a conflict with one of several other USB based tools I have installed on my lab systems, I installed a fresh copy of windows on an old laptop, then not bothering to move over the downloaded installers, I stuffed in the DVD that came with the scope, and installed 1.0.29. Then I ran it, and tried "Install USB driver" which failed with "can't find REINSTALL.BAT", so I manually installed the driver that was included in the installed software (not the "new" one from OWONs site).

And... everything worked! I can zoom, and no 10-second disconnect!

So, I went to my working laptop (where I most want the scope to work), un-installed the driver, tracked down and removed all driver related files, uninstalled the software, tracked down and removed all program and appdata files and repeated the above.

And... everything works!

Did the same on my desktop. And... everything works!


I can only guess that the "new" driver from OWONs site installed some "nugget of goodness" which was interfering with things. I still get the disconnect sound and LED-ON 10 seconds after I close the VDS software (and I expect you will too), so I'm thinking that some "keep-alive" message while paused was not being transferred through the driver.

I also noted that the "fpga" directory and contained .bin files were NOT removed when I uninstalled the software. It may also be that a wrong or bad version of the firmware was being loaded.

Thanks for your help, and hopefully my experience may save someone else a bit of grief!

Dave

 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #282 on: December 28, 2018, 03:43:15 pm »
Hey Dave,

I missed your previous couple of posts (rather pleased that I did now). Glad you got it sorted! I can't remember which was the earliest version that I installed when I changed laptops, but obviously early enough to circumvent the 'straight to 1.0.30' from the website.

Coincidentally I am just setting up an old IBM T42 with Win7 32 pro and an SSD to use as a small footprint lab bench PC, so your info is immediately helpful. Thanks.

Chris
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Offline DDunfield

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #283 on: December 30, 2018, 12:32:13 pm »
Now that I have this thing working properly, time for a better "review".  I have to say that I quite like it.

It works! - I've tried a couple other low cost USB scopes and they were terrible, unreliable triggering, lost data in captures. Just not worth looking at. It seems OWON did something fiendishly clever that none of the other low-end USB scope makers have thought of ... they put an actual oscilloscope inside the box!  not just an 8-bit micro trying desperately to shovel sample captures at a PC without losing "to much" of what you are interested in seeing.

It's cheap! - I got mine for about C$90 (~$70 US)  - Not much more than the "sample and shovel" boxes.

It's small! About the size of a medium-small paperback book, easily fits in my (admittedly bigish) laptop bag. Rather than just toss it in with all the other detritus in the side pocket, I got a cheap 10" tablet case, which holds the scope and a couple of probes while maintaining thinness so it just slides in the pocket above the main compartment with the laptop.

Software seems decent. While I would prefer something cleaner than 100M+ of Java and .DLLs, it seems to keep to itself, and runs well. I tried installing it on an single-core Atom (N270) netbook running XP .. and it works fine!  Another advantage to it doing scope-functions inside the box! It doesn't need much in the way of PC resources.

UI-wise the software is also quite good, I like that it doesn't make you turn "virtual knobs" but uses simple menus, and many functions can be done just by moving pointers with the mouse.

I don't really like their use of a USB-A connector which would normally require you to carry a separate cable. I've standardized on micro-USB cables for all the peripherals in my "portable lab", using adapters to other formats when needed, so I added a micro-USB to USB-A male adapter which works perfectly on the VDS1022I.

So far, it seems to be one of the best low-cost and small compromises I have found for a portable scope. I've got a couple of scopemeters, but they are too big for the laptop bag, and unless you spend big $$$ are considerably more limited than the VDS1022I.

It could also make a good cheap bench scope if you have a PC handy and don't need more capability. Sure, a 1054Z (or similar) is a lot more scope, but at 1/5 the price I can see places where the VDS1022 could make sense.

Dave

PS: The only thing I really don't like is the fact that at 100ms/div and slower it switches to roll mode with triggering disabled. I get that they think the delay between trigger/display would become too long, but they should have at least let us make that choice - there are sometimes cases where I want to wait for and capture a slow event.

 
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Offline epigramx

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #284 on: January 13, 2019, 07:53:21 pm »
At the end of the day, if someone can afford $200-250 (because I suspect most that can afford $100-$150 can afford slightly higher), do you think this is worth it? I find the general concept of headless oscilloscopes very optiimal technologically since many people have a PC right in front of them at all times anyway, but I get the impression there is no much progress is that field yet, even with this model around (e.g. I noticed only the small model on this floating version can accept high voltage signals).
 

Offline Riaj159

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #285 on: January 14, 2019, 04:57:05 am »
Currently owon vds1022 got new competitor, "hantek 2c42" !!!
 

Offline Pnoxi

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #286 on: January 14, 2019, 06:34:39 pm »
I do not have a "hantek 2C42", but I was thinking about buying it.
After watching the videos I was discouraged, transferring to PC via USB "was very slow"  :-\

I do not know Polish, but here's a video.
https://youtu.be/7pM64TIJSes?t=244
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 06:41:49 pm by PNOXI »
 

Offline martinloren2

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #287 on: January 15, 2019, 12:48:04 am »
...transferring to PC via USB "was very slow"  :-\

What kind of processing would require you to transfer data to the PC? Do you think you would benefit of real-time samples transfer via wifi?
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #288 on: January 15, 2019, 09:51:45 pm »
It's triggering capabilities are distinctly limited compared to the Owon too. Not to mention very similar sample rate (drops to 125MHz for dual channel) and smaller (than the already small Owon) buffer - only 3k samples dual channel.

Yes it's handheld, but things like decent triggering matter.
Chris

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Offline Riaj159

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #289 on: January 19, 2019, 04:14:50 pm »
here is the detail review of hantek 2D42 oscilloscope,  
I agree with gyro this one is no way compare able with Owon vds series except being the handheld device. pc software also almost not useable compared to owon software. hantek 2D42 has single channel 125MS/s sampling and by time interleaving, hantek 2D42 able to manage 250MS/s. maybe same theory has applied on Owon VDS2052 ( 50 MHz 250MS/s) too, as Owon VDS1022 and VDS2052 has same origin and also has same software but different FPGA bitstream, maybe inserting some unpopulated component (reverse engineering required) & uploading the FPGA bitstream of Owon VDS2052 on the VDS1022 might convert Owon VDS1022 into VDS2052  ::) .On owon VDS software I have tried replacing VDS1022_FPGA_V3.5.bin file with vds2052_FPGA_v1.0.11.bin & after connecting my VDS1022, FPGA bitstream upload was successful on the VDS1022. At that time no input signal was given & my VDS1022 was plotting signal incorrectly. After disconnecting and reuploading original FPGA bitstream (VDS1022_FPGA_V3.5.bin) it was all right once again.
 

Offline siggi

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #290 on: January 21, 2019, 12:08:15 am »
I'm trying to figure out how the Hantek could ever be battery operated, as the manual leads with this sage advice: "Ground the product. This product is grounded through the grounding conductor of the power cord. To avoid electric shock, the grounding conductor must be connected to earth ground. Before making connections to the input or output terminals of the product, ensure that the product is properly grounded".
The USB charger in the video only has two prongs, so that won't be supplying the ground for the device, so the scope would only be grounded through a USB->Computer connection under normal circumstances. Weirdness?
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #291 on: January 21, 2019, 08:49:43 am »
I suggest starting a new thread for the Hantek 2D42 - This stuff is really getting off topic with regard to the Owon VDS1022(I).
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 08:51:30 am by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline waste

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #292 on: January 23, 2019, 12:22:04 pm »
I ordered the standard (non I) model and then I ordered a USB isolator for 9euros

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1500V-USB-to-USB-Isolator-Board-Protection-Isolation-ADUM4160-ADUM3160-Module-USB-2-0/32791327590.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.38252e0eQ5C8Xc

and a 2watt 5V dc-dc power supply for 3 euros to replace the 1watt that is installed

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-B0505S-2W-DIP-4-DC-DC-B0505S-2W-SIP-4-B0505S-2WR2/32903740245.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2cde4c4dPJNVOH

This way I will have an isolator for more than one USB devices and the price difference was well worth the extra effort (60euros for the non isolated model and 90 for the isolated one).

thanks to everybody for the very informative comments


PS the laptop power supply I use doesn't have a ground cable, but better be safe than sorry. I always use a hands off approach when testing potentially dangerous Voltages, but I would like my osciloscope or my old laptop to also not die, hands off or not :)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 12:30:25 pm by waste »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #293 on: January 23, 2019, 01:09:16 pm »
That was a good solution - saving some money in exchange for a little searching and rework effort.  :-+

Having a laptop with a 2 pin mains adapter (no ground) actually makes your USB Isolator more useful, not less. It will block any 'Y-Cap leakage current' from your laptop adapter from reaching your (potentially sensitive) circuit under test.
Chris

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Offline waste

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #294 on: January 24, 2019, 11:05:13 am »
That was a good solution - saving some money in exchange for a little searching and rework effort.  :-+

Having a laptop with a 2 pin mains adapter (no ground) actually makes your USB Isolator more useful, not less. It will block any 'Y-Cap leakage current' from your laptop adapter from reaching your (potentially sensitive) circuit under test.

thanks Gyro, I never thought the Y-Cap (little blue pill) leakage could have any effect, but when it comes to oscilloscopes I'm a total newbie, that's why I stick to these threads here.

I read your comments on readings taken from devices connected to mains, and I would like to ask/debate a few ideas (regarding transformerless drivers, isolator transformer etc), but I don't want to clutter the OWON thread with off topic stuff, so If I can pester you somewhere else I would be greatful.

As for the OWON, I just received today, Im still waiting for the 2w dc-dc converter to finish my isolated Osciloscope project
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #295 on: January 24, 2019, 11:56:12 am »
There are quite a few threads on the benefits / shortcomings of Isolation Transformers and RCD/GFIs for shock protection in different situations. It's a bit of a contentions subject - safety is always an issue when trying to scope mains connected or high voltage circuits. A forum search will reveal many, but one I would recommend reading is  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rcd-or-isolation-transformer-what-is-best-to-use-for-safety/. It might be a thread worth reviving with any specific questions.

There's also Dave's video on how not to blow up your scope...
https://youtu.be/xaELqAo4kkQ

Obviously you have an advantage with a USB isolated VDS1022. The key things to remember are that the ground clips of both channel probes are connected together, and they are also directly connected to the metal sleeve of the case. The other thing to remember is that regardless of any ground isolation, you always have the limit of the maximum voltage input and scope probe voltage ratings (relative to the ground clips) to beware of.

Hoping to hear that your USB Isolator mod works as expected.  :)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 11:57:45 am by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline waste

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #296 on: January 24, 2019, 01:00:36 pm »
hehe thanks, I have seen this video like 3 times already to be extra sure I got all the tricks. Thanks also for the link about the debate on isolation transformers, I will also read it very carefully (I just made myself one from old transistors, but I m still somewhat shy to use it),

and I will post my results on the cheaply isolated Owon once I have everything put together (I still miss the 2w dc-dc).

PS gyro another thanks from me the thread you showed me is exactly what I wanted to read.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 01:09:56 pm by waste »
 
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Offline danno_cj

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #297 on: January 29, 2019, 05:22:54 pm »
I tested with my USB meter power needed to work my 1022I. It draw power from short part cable of Y cable found on the box. The value show on my meter is 640mA, so it best to use Y cable that came with 1022 and both ends inserted in sockets. It may not work properly with one usb. For those who want to mod 1022 to isolated version keep in mind the need of power requirement when other power IC is used.
 

Offline waste

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #298 on: January 31, 2019, 10:47:23 pm »
I tested with my USB meter power needed to work my 1022I. It draw power from short part cable of Y cable found on the box. The value show on my meter is 640mA, so it best to use Y cable that came with 1022 and both ends inserted in sockets. It may not work properly with one usb. For those who want to mod 1022 to isolated version keep in mind the need of power requirement when other power IC is used.

Thanks but 650mA is 3Watts, which contradicts what others have found inside the OWON 1022i ie a 2Watt Dc-Dc isolator. Im still waiting for the Dc-DC converter but I promise a full report when I get it :)
 

Offline DDunfield

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #299 on: February 01, 2019, 01:21:12 am »
I tested with my USB meter power needed to work my 1022I. It draw power from short part cable of Y cable found on the box. The value show on my meter is 640mA, so it best to use Y cable that came with 1022 and both ends inserted in sockets. It may not work properly with one usb. For those who want to mod 1022 to isolated version keep in mind the need of power requirement when other power IC is used.

Thanks but 650mA is 3Watts, which contradicts what others have found inside the OWON 1022i ie a 2Watt Dc-Dc isolator. Im still waiting for the Dc-DC converter but I promise a full report when I get it :)

My VDS1022I measures about 360ma when first connected (before software loads it), and about 420-430ma once the software loads it and it's up and running.
Draw doesn't change much between stopped and acquiring, or even when changing channel input level between settings where you can hear a relay click.

Not measured with a precision meter, just a cheap "USB Tester" which I have confirmed previously to be reasonably close. It only has a resolution to 0.01A.

I've not had problems running it from a single USB port, although I normally use a dual USB-A male to single USB-B Mini male with USB Mini-B female to USB-A male adapter to connect to the scope (standardized on USB Mini cables with adapters in my laptop bag).

Dave
 


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