Author Topic: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)  (Read 124780 times)

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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #475 on: December 01, 2019, 02:39:46 pm »
Right, I've got a handle on it now (I think). The bug got fixed in V1.0.29...  V1.0.28 shows the wrong Ch1 5mV scaling factor, V1.0.29 and V1.0.30 do it correctly.

Phew, I was beginning to think that something in my scope was permanently screwed there!   :phew:

Given that @indman took his libraries from V1.0.30 to go with the modified V1.0.23, the error must be in the main code. @camomille would have automatically had the bug because he worked from the V1.0.23 sources.

Another one for my 'Owon substitute changelog'.  |O

If you want my previous versions archive, it is still active and looks as if it has about 20 days still to run: https://ufile.io/3mgf30c5. Please feel free to double check me.


P.S. Once you have installed once (drivers), you don't need to keep re-installing each version - you can just unzip (7zip works) each OWON_VDS_C2_1.0.xx_Setup.exe into a separate folder and run it from there.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 02:49:25 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline indman

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #476 on: December 01, 2019, 04:55:22 pm »
P.S. Once you have installed once (drivers), you don't need to keep re-installing each version - you can just unzip (7zip works) each OWON_VDS_C2_1.0.xx_Setup.exe into a separate folder and run it from there.
Yes, you are right - there is no need to install a fresh version every time. It is essentially portable if USB drivers are already installed. I tracked on a clean computer what keys this program puts on the register. It leaves nothing essential on the register. I attached the screenshot below. So does the question remain who was the ancestor of this shell - OWON or PeakTech?
I am now using a version from florentbr(base v1.0.30) with additions that have already been discussed here. I also wrote a letter to florentbr thanking him and invited him to take part in this topic. But I haven 't received a response from him yet.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 06:30:13 pm by indman »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #477 on: December 01, 2019, 05:55:48 pm »
So does the question remain who was the ancestor of this shell - OWON or PeakTech?
Good question - OWON are certainly the OEM for the Hardware (I think Peaktech is a rebrand) but as for the original stack....  I still wonder where the Uppersoft reference comes from in the folder tree?*

Quote
I am now using a version from florentbr(base v1.0.30) with additions that have already been discussed here. I also wrote a letter to florentbr thanking him and invited him to take part in this topic. But I haven 't received a response from him yet.

Good idea, he seems to have put a lot of work in on it... and having a working linux version! :-+   I'm having trouble installing on win7 64bit though, the script doesn't work for me. I have Java V8 installed but it doesn't seem to see it and its attempt to download it fails.

I suspect that the Ch1 5mV bug on V1.0.28 and lower is probably a simple typo but probably beyond my skills.


EDIT: * Owon certainly have the capability of modifying the s/w (doesn't everyone these days? ;D), they fixed a bug for me on one of the early versions, but they took their time about it and had to send me a couple of test versions before it was fixed and they have been somewhat accident prone over the various versions.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 06:04:34 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline indman

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #478 on: December 01, 2019, 06:28:14 pm »
I'm having trouble installing on win7 64bit though, the script doesn't work for me. I have Java V8 installed but it doesn't seem to see it and its attempt to download it fails.
Yes, the script of installing the version on the Win7x64 at me also did not work correctly. He told me about an error creating a shell start shortcut. So I made it easier - opened install-win.cmd and looked at the conditions that are needed to create this shortcut.
It has such a long text on my computer:
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Java\jre1.8.0_111\bin\javaw.exe" -Djava.library.path="C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\OwonVdsTiny\lib" -Duser.dir="C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\OwonVdsTiny\etc" -cp "C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\OwonVdsTiny\jar\*" "com.owon.vds.tiny.Main"
After creating such a shortcut, the program starts normally. ;)
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #479 on: December 01, 2019, 10:48:16 pm »
@indman:

Thanks, I finally got it working. For some reason I had to install the 64bit version of Java too before the script would recognize that it was installed!

Like you, I had to manually create the shortcut - it works both with the x86 version of Java and the 64 bit. It all took a while - I am not as quick on the uptake as I used to be!

Unfortunately this version misses the one function that started the discussion with camomille (a few pages back) and prompted his interest in learning and modifying the Java code - that was making the save button on the main screen save a graphic image file, rather than a text file.   :D
Chris

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Offline indman

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #480 on: December 02, 2019, 06:12:39 am »
Unfortunately this version misses the one function that started the discussion with camomille (a few pages back) and prompted his interest in learning and modifying the Java code - that was making the save button on the main screen save a graphic image file, rather than a text file.   :D
This is easily added(compilation is unnecessary) after the respected camomille explained everything in Reply # 449
Replace files in owon-vds-tiny-1.0.30-cf6.jar archive with files in camomille archive:
1. Owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\pane\function\UtilityPane
2. Owon\com.owon.vds.foundation_1.0.0\com\owon\uppersoft\dso\view\sub\ButtonPane (including all files with this name)
Also in the version from florentbr this function is conveniently called via Ctrl+S
Just as easily now you can put any header in the name of the shell. And also change the color of the beam in Channel 1 to green - I like it most.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 06:30:50 am by indman »
 
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Offline camomille

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #481 on: December 02, 2019, 07:16:50 am »
Hello everyone,

I am attentively your discussion around the problem CH1, later I will look for why this shift of step.
If I understood correctly, when the 2 channels are on the same value displayed on the selector, channel 1 is shifted by 2 steps in real amplitude.
example:
CH1 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 500mV / div
CH2 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 5mV / div
is it this ?

Alain
 

Offline camomille

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #482 on: December 02, 2019, 09:15:37 am »
I can not see the problem of CH1
my settings for the 2 channels:
AC 5 mV X1 probes X1
screenshot X25
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 11:35:57 am by camomille »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #483 on: December 02, 2019, 11:37:05 am »
Hello everyone,

I am attentively your discussion around the problem CH1, later I will look for why this shift of step.
If I understood correctly, when the 2 channels are on the same value displayed on the selector, channel 1 is shifted by 2 steps in real amplitude.
example:
CH1 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 500mV / div
CH2 = 5mV / div selector, actual sensitivity to the screen = 5mV / div
is it this ?

Alain

Hi Alain,

Thanks for chiming in. Yes, that's what seems to be happening. I'd never noticed it (I guess I've never used the bottom range) until Nullarbor raised it. The problem does seem to happen with V1.0.28 or before.

I can not see the problem of CH1
my settings for the 2 channels:
AC 5 mV X1 probes X1

Strange, I'll do some more testing but the behaviour does seem consistent. The best way I've found of showing it is to clip the two probe tips together and allow a little mains hum, approaching the tips with a finger if necessary. Then overlaying the traces.
Chris

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Offline camomille

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #484 on: December 02, 2019, 11:53:17 am »
@Gyro

That's what I did in the middle screenshot of the image above.
A clarification, I do not have the isolated version.
If I can not highlight it, I can not search. |O

Alain
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #485 on: December 02, 2019, 12:14:21 pm »
Ah ok, I read it as probes disconnected, probes shorted and GND - what I meant was probe tips Ch0 and Ch1 clipped together, ground clips disconnected.

The GND setting just does a flat line in s/w by the way.

EDIT: Screenshots for 5mV and 10mV added...
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 12:25:22 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline camomille

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #486 on: December 02, 2019, 12:28:44 pm »
always screenshot X25
I do not see any problem !!
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 12:31:38 pm by camomille »
 

Offline camomille

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #487 on: December 02, 2019, 12:41:19 pm »
same conditions as you
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #488 on: December 02, 2019, 12:43:25 pm »
Very confused!  :-//

I clearly need to investigate.

EDIT: I wonder if it's a H/W version thing. Or a fault developed on my and Nullarbor's scopes?


EDIT1:  What can I say guys, I seem to have got into the situation where ONLY Owon original V1.0.29 and V1.0.30 produce the correct scaling on Ch1 5mV. Neither camomille versions (original or portable), indman's composite 1.0.23 with V1.0.30 libraries, or even florentbr scale correctly for me. The behaviour is 100% consistent, switching between versions without disconnecting the scope or factory reset. Even going from Original V1.0.28 to V1.0.29 and back is consistent both ways. I am totally lost! :palm:
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 02:25:23 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline indman

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #489 on: December 02, 2019, 02:57:43 pm »
Gyro, сan you show us the calibration window 5mV by pressing Ctrl+L on version 1.0.23 and version 1.0.30?
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #490 on: December 02, 2019, 05:17:46 pm »
@indman:

Thanks very much, you cracked it! No need for screenshots - in every non-working case, Ch1 5mV Coarse Gain is set to all zeros. In working versions, it is set to a sensible value - within a couple of digits of Ch2.  :-+   [EDIT: Changing the gain to a sensible value restores the sensible trace, confirmed]

I'm not sure how it has happened, or maybe worked its way across versions that I thought were ok. The V1.0.28 and V1.0.29 were fresh unpacks of the Owon Setup.exe's, but it is clearly the reason for what I've been seeing!

Many thanks - my brain was so fogged that I needed a quick sleep. I didn't even think of checking that the cal data was sensible.


P.S. I am wondering if the factory default cals maybe get stored in Flash in the ARM processor in each unit, that might possibly explain a 'cross contamination'. Maybe autoset has a fine tuning effect based on those settings, I don't know though.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 05:27:09 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #491 on: December 02, 2019, 05:45:44 pm »
Follow-up:

I think we maybe don't fully understand how calibration settings work. Once I changed the Ch1 5mV settings and saved - right most button,  it is also works with Alain's and your versions, even after unplugging and changing USB ports! [EDIT: and previous Owon versions too]

Strangely the florentbr version still shown incorrect Ch1 5mV.  :-\

A few tentative conclusions:

- The calibration data is stored in some non-volatile place. This could either be in Flash on the unit (which seems likely to me as Owon would want to do a basic cal on each unit during test), or some global (registry?) setting on the system. From the registry dump that you did yesterday, I don't see that this is possible.

- Assuming the above is correct, the florentbr version is not interrogating the unit to get factory setting and is maybe holding them somewhere else?

- Owon V1.0.29 - V1.0.30 are handling calibration data in a different way to previous versions ? ??

Still a little confused about the above thoughts.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 05:48:49 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline indman

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #492 on: December 02, 2019, 06:19:14 pm »
Strangely the florentbr version still shown incorrect Ch1 5mV.  :-\
- Assuming the above is correct, the florentbr version is not interrogating the unit to get factory setting and is maybe holding them somewhere else?

Gyro, Is it possible that the explanations in the readme.md file from the florentbr can make a hint?
* moved calibration to user folder
* moved settings to user folder
* moved preferences to user folder
It would be very useful to understand correctly the purpose of the process of maintaining calibration settings.
 

Offline camomille

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #493 on: December 02, 2019, 06:21:42 pm »
@Gyro

If it helps you, I attach my original file Flashmemory.txt

https://ufile.io/2lajynvg

I think that if the flashmemory.txt file does not exist in the flash_txt folder, the VDS1022 must launch an "auto_self_cal" on startup.
or in Utility, you can launch a "Self Cal"

Alain
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 06:37:27 pm by camomille »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #494 on: December 02, 2019, 07:03:07 pm »
@Gyro

If it helps you, I attach my original file Flashmemory.txt

https://ufile.io/2lajynvg

I think that if the flashmemory.txt file does not exist in the flash_txt folder, the VDS1022 must launch an "auto_self_cal" on startup.

Alain

Thanks Alain. I've downloaded the file, but suspect that it is related to your specific unit (hint, keep a backup of it). I was able to use the gain value I saw in V1.0.29 to set it for the other versions.


Strangely the florentbr version still shown incorrect Ch1 5mV.  :-\
- Assuming the above is correct, the florentbr version is not interrogating the unit to get factory setting and is maybe holding them somewhere else?

Gyro, Is it possible that the explanations in the readme.md file from the florentbr can make a hint?
* moved calibration to user folder
* moved settings to user folder
* moved preferences to user folder
It would be very useful to understand correctly the purpose of the process of maintaining calibration settings.

Interesting, yes there do seem to be multiple files involved in the calibration data. As I mentioned back in Reply #468, I have previously seen some new and unexpected zero offsets that I hadn't seen before. Looking at file dates, it was apparent that both  '\flash_text\flashmemory.txt'  and '\configuration\com.owon.uppersoft.dso\pref.properties' appeared to be involved, I needed to copy both of those from my previous version to get the offsets looking normal again (they could of course also be trimmed in the cal menu).

From Alain's translation of the calibration screen, it is clear that there are buttons to save to flashmemory.txt only, or write to the device (scope) and Factory settings. What doesn't seem clear is if/when the flashmemory.txt and device data get exchanged or overwritten.

Without fully understanding this I suspect that there may be a danger of accidentally 'infecting' each other with our own scope calibrations!  :D


P.S. Sorry to you both for your time taken in searching for a non-existent bug!
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 07:23:11 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline camomille

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #495 on: December 02, 2019, 07:40:45 pm »
in Utility, you can launch a "Self Cal"
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #496 on: December 02, 2019, 07:53:17 pm »
Yes, I know (there is the centre 'Calibration' button for it in the calibration screen too, that does the same thing). From my experience with the zero offsets that I mentioned earlier though, it doesn't seem to do a full accurate cal - I think it is based on the saved factory parameters (I tried both self-cal and factory reset). The zero line result isn't optimal afterwards anyway.

It's not a big issue to calibrate it anyway (Indman did it) - it's only an 8 bit scope (like most) so it's never going to have DMM type accuracy. Even on the highest range, it's only 5V/div (X1) so no high voltages are needed. I'm still a little confused about the difference between 'Zero Amplitude' and 'Zero Compensation' they seem to have the same effect but one is maybe ADC zero and the other input opamps offset for best linearity. I need to have a play.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 08:05:18 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline camomille

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #497 on: December 03, 2019, 09:48:53 am »
To help a little, I tried to follow the actions of "Gain", "Amplitude" and "Compensation" but without success.
What I learned is that "zeroamplitude" in the program changes its name and is called "Step" (as in flashmemory.txt.
If it can be useful
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #498 on: December 03, 2019, 11:45:32 am »
Thanks Alain, yes "step" sounds useful. It could be that Zero Amplitude, in conjunction with Coarse Gain can be used to optimize the ADC scaling (eg. as close to 1 bit per mV as possible) and the Zero Compensation is then used to bring the line to zero.

We'll learn all there is to know one day!  :)
Chris

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Offline camomille

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #499 on: December 03, 2019, 11:59:35 am »
By analyzing the diagrams of the circuits (analog side),
 there are few possibilities of programming of these circuits,
I see only the 2 reference voltages of the AD9288 and the gain and the offset on the 2 AD603.
I think it corresponds to our 3 programmable voltages.
 


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