Author Topic: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)  (Read 234882 times)

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Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2015, 09:58:16 pm »
Ahha, Interesting. Thank you!  :) Glad you managed to get it open.

It didn't occur to me that the non-I link components would be underneath the Isolator footprints - Obvious when you think about it!  :palm: I wonder if the USB speed actually makes any difference.

You have a fairly easy option to convert yours into a -I if you want to then. Possibly worth it for the ground isolation benefit, not sure how much benefit in terms of noise performance, but they do mention it in the blurb. From the look of it the passives (eg. high voltage cap C95) are already in place.

On mine the U29 footprint is up at the front in the analogue section, near the shield. If you have something fitted I'd be grateful for a part number - if only to understand what it does!

Thanks again for the photos (if you could maybe post one of the analogue end of the board? :)). I'm keen to compare them in detail and see if I can see any improvements that can be retrofitted to the Rev1.2 board.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2015, 10:16:08 pm »
Ah, I see the confusion - some major renumbering, why did they use 'U' numbers for inductors too?  :palm:

Photo with MY U29 highlighted attached.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2015, 10:53:16 pm »
Photo with MY U29 highlighted attached.

Thanks!  I just managed to find where U29 was on your board.  I was looking all over, in the wrong places.

On my board, that whole circuit has vaporized.  R80 and 81 are gone, and R77 and R78, along with caps C69, C70, C77, and C78.  Oh, and R73 and R75 too.  Sorry about the rotation, but I was trying to landscape it, and get a good perspective.  I'm assuming you can rotate it for a better side-by-side comparison.

What may not be immediately obvious is that they did a really sloppy job of aligning the shielding can (just visible at the bottom).  It also doesn't fit anywhere near flush with the board, either.  :(
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2015, 11:07:12 pm »
It's easier to see the sloppy shield mounting on this full-board shot, along with the heavy copper ground strapping (that extends around to the rear shielding can as well).

[And, as shown above in Reply 24, U29 on my board is an HC595 serial-in-parallel out shifter, located upper-right here.]
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 11:09:11 pm by Mark_O »
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2015, 11:34:10 pm »
I wonder if the USB speed actually makes any difference.

In a practical sense, no.  Even with USB1, it could forward ~150 captures/sec.  Which is faster than they'd be updated on screen.  In a theoretical sense, yes.  With USB2, up to 3,000 captures/sec could be uploaded to the PC, which could be useful if they were merged into a variable persistence display, for example.

Quote
On mine the U29 footprint is up at the front in the analogue section, near the shield. If you have something fitted I'd be grateful for a part number - if only to understand what it does!  ...  I'm keen to compare them in detail and see if I can see any improvements that can be retrofitted to the Rev1.2 board.

It looks like they did a fair bit of redesign there, and revised the layout quite significantly.  And no trace cuts now (that I noticed), for example.  I think they did swap in a LOT heftier v-reg for U25, compared to what I recall on your board.

If there's anything else you'd like to see closeups of, let me know before I button it back up again.
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2015, 10:35:13 am »
Nice clear photos, thanks very much  :)  Sorry,your last posts came in after bed time, yes I think that gives me everything I need so you're safe to button it up again.

Quote
It looks like they did a fair bit of redesign there, and revised the layout quite significantly.  And no trace cuts now (that I noticed), for example.  I think they did swap in a LOT heftier v-reg for U25, compared to what I recall on your board.

It looks like a nice tidy clean-up pass. If they've been doing such active work on the board in the past year it looks as if they see some ongoing life in it (hopefully s/w too, although it seems clean now). I see they've kept the RS232 port footprints too :-\

Losing (my) U29 has tidied up the front end nicely so it possibly has lower crosstalk. I wonder what it was... My only thought is that it might have been an analog mux for an abandoned single channel 200MSps experiment. As you say, no trace cuts - the control tracks across the board have been deleted.

Your U29 is new, I must look at what that does. It must be s/w transparent with mine (but maybe different firmware  - to free up some GPIOs?).

Interesting regulator change (LM337 -ve?), it looks as if they did have issues with the equivalent reg on mine because there is rework around it - I must look closer look at noise / temp to see if it is worth a (slightly messy) retrofit.

It's a shame about the twisted shield, I don't think the PCB slot sizes are big enough to twist that far so it looks as if they may have needed to remove the tab at that end (misplaced hole?) and replace it with the copper strap. It hopefully doesn't have any performance impact anyway. Maybe they've just bent the tab up, resulting in the poorer board spacing, might be possible to rectify (after warranty?)

Quote
In a practical sense, no.  Even with USB1, it could forward ~150 captures/sec.  Which is faster than they'd be updated on screen.  In a theoretical sense, yes.  With USB2, up to 3,000 captures/sec could be uploaded to the PC, which could be useful if they were merged into a variable persistence display, for example.

Ah, good point, I wonder if it enumerates as USB1 or USB2? It's hopefully possible to tell.

I really appreciate your taking the time to do this Mark, I owe you one  :)

EDIT: Ah, got it now! My U29 was the mux to select the Video trigger source (obvious when I saw the track difference on yours  :)). hence the jumper on only one side of the footprint, I must have partially coupled the channels when I tried to jumper the other side. The s/w pops up a message saying Video trigger only supported on Channel 1 when you try to set it to Chan 2. It must have compromised performance too much in other areas - a fair trade-off. Glad I understand it now anyway. :)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 01:25:34 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2015, 02:42:10 pm »
Nice clear photos, thanks very much  :) 

You're welcome.  They're not tack sharp, since I did them handheld with available light.  But they came out pretty decent.

Quote
If they've been doing such active work on the board in the past year it looks as if they see some ongoing life in it (hopefully s/w too, although it seems clean now). I see they've kept the RS232 port footprints too :-\

I agree about the ongoing product life.  From the S/N difference, they may have sold ~10k units between yours and mine, and expect to continue to do more.  No way to really know about the RS232, but they may have designed that in as an alternate to USB, for some countries where RS232 is still more prevalent (old laptops).

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Interesting regulator change (LM337 -ve?),

Yep.

Quote
It's a shame about the twisted shield, I don't think the PCB slot sizes are big enough to twist that far so it looks as if they may have needed to remove the tab at that end (misplaced hole?) and replace it with the copper strap.

I'm less concerned with the twisting, and more with the fact that in sections, there's more than a 2mm gap away from the PCB.  But looking at it again more closely, I now see that the can itself is basically defective.  I.e., it's not just that it isn't fully seated on the board, with the tabs not inserted all the way (though that is true on the top... the back is perfect).  But the bent part of the metal lip on the side away from the BNCs is longer/taller on the right than it is on the left!  So SOME gap was going to be inevitable.

Quote
Ah, good point, I wonder if it enumerates as USB1 or USB2? It's hopefully possible to tell.

I am sure it enumerates as USB2 (HighSpeed).  It's a simple voltage indication on the USB lines, and there's no reason at all for it not to.

Quote
I really appreciate your taking the time to do this Mark, I owe you one  :)

No problem at all, Chris.  Nice to have multiple eyes on an analysis.  I'm really glad you did all the heavy-lifting on this one.
 

Offline LogicalDave

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2015, 12:08:20 am »
A quick thank you for the teardown and review!  I bought two of the Owon VDS1022 scopes (non-isolated version); I removed the 8x 0R resistors and installed the two isolation chips (ADUM3160BRWZ, DCP020505U) and my scopes are now isolated so I'm not risking my computers each time I use them.  I really like the VDS1022 scopes; the software is great as is the portability and desk footprint; I rarely use my bench scopes anymore unless I need to look at signals faster than 25MHz.  Having them isolated now is a nice plus.
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2015, 06:04:17 pm »
Ah, I wondered if anyone had actually done that (there was always just a chance that there might have been something hidden somewhere to stop it). Thanks for reporting back!  :)

I guess that answers our USB1.1 vs USB2 data transfer speed question, Mark.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2015, 08:46:40 pm »
I just ordered the Owon 3104  4-channel 100MHz unit - will report when it turns up.
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Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2015, 09:03:20 pm »
We need an emoticon for 'Rubs hands in anticipation'. Looking forward to the teardown  ;D
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2015, 10:01:54 pm »
Thanks for the quick teardown. :)

I wouldn't say it looks bad inside by any means, a neat layout. I do see what you mean about the clearance on the LAN isolation though - the clearances on the 1022 USB isolation are rather better implemented. There was good attention to proper clock routing and termination there too.

The self defeating warranty label is certainly to your benefit  ;D There was nothing sealing the 1022, less IP to protect I guess.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2015, 10:33:08 pm »
Maybe a little hard on your countrymen, yes the PCB could be better cleaned though. At least the joints are nice and shiny.

I'm not surprised it heats up, they're squeezing a lot of performance into the same small case. I've noticed that noise level varies with length of USB lead on the 1022 (admittedly a cheap ebay 3m one so actually I should be surprised that it works at all with the voltage drop! :palm:). I may experiment with a separate isolated DC supply at some stage, that certainly made a difference on the low speed 16bit Picoscope that I use for audio measurements (that's a very different noise floor requirement of course).
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2015, 11:08:11 pm »
If you are asking about the ones with the VDS1022, then yes it came with two P6060 60MHz switchable x10/x1 probes. You can find pictures on ebay if you search for P6060, but these came in black rather than grey. They seem to be perfectly adequate for the job and are nicely insulated at the BNC end (to match the isolation).

The software allows you to select x1, x10, x100 and x1000 probe attenuation factors.  :)
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2015, 10:45:19 am »
Haha, yes I noticed that - chalk one up for ground isolation!  ;D

Edit: I just captured and added the relevant image for future generations, it is a bit of a classic.  :)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2015, 10:57:17 am by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2015, 12:23:09 pm »
I guess that answers our USB1.1 vs USB2 data transfer speed question, Mark.

Yep.

I also noticed that there is currently an eBay Seller with 5 of these units (VDS1022, non I) on sale, for just $84 (shipped):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121825404806

These normally run $110-120.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2015, 12:30:03 pm »
Just received the 3014.
Initial impressions :
Software not nearly as bad as I expected - UI has room for improvement but not bad as Chinese SW goes.
A few minor controls are very badly implemented (e.g. trig pulse width & holdoff).
There are key shortcuts for viatal stuff like X & Y scaling, but could do with a lot more.
Screen update speed pretty good but some controls are a little sluggish.
Uses "wrong" Usb connector (A) , and comes with  a "Y" lead in case you need to pull power from 2 ports ( draws approx 880mA)

Will do a video soon but I have a shed to build...
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2015, 10:06:52 pm »
Weather too bad for shed-building so...
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
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Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2015, 02:39:28 pm »
Nice review Mike  :-+

As you say, it would be nice to have some more keyboard shortcuts (though I wouldn't put it past them to have forgotten to document some). Here are some screen shortcuts, some documented, some not, which you might not have found yet:

As requested, the definitive (ish) list of Owon VDS1022 Software shortcuts....

I haven't included keyboard shortcuts (those are documented in the manual). All of the menu's referred to can be accessed by the large 'home' icon on the right hand side, but some of the shortcuts bring up the relevant one directly.

The numbers tie up to the attached Screenshot:

(1) Clicking on the small arrow directly brings up the measurement cursors menu for time and / or voltage.

(2) Clicking on the small '+' icon (only appears when the mouse pointer is in the measurements area) immediately brings up the measurements selection menu.

(3) Clicking on either of the channel numbers immediately brings up the channel settings menu.

(4) Volts/div selection, Clicking brings up a normal popup+slider However if you just hover the mouse over it instead you can use the scroll wheel to increment/decrement directly, much quicker.

(5) Clicking here toggles between DC / AC / GND for that channel.

Additional, hovering in either of the channel boxes also brings up a small 'x' icon to turn off the channel. Clicking in a greyed out channel box will turn it on again. (couldn't show this and (2) at the same time).

(6) Clicking in the 'T' box brings up a slider for trigger position. It's normally easier just to drag the red trigger position flag at the top of the screen, but the 'T' box click also brings up a useful 'Reset' button to restore to the middle.

(7) Time/div... Similar operation to the V/div. Clicking brings up the pop-up/slider but mouse-over and scroll wheel changes the value directly.

(8 ) Clicking toggles the trigger source between Chan1, Chan2 and Ext (trigger marker on right hand edge of screen changes color to match).

(9) Clicking toggles trigger polarity, works on edge, slope and pulse (icon changes to match trigger type). In Video trigger mode it toggles Odd, Even, Line etc.

(10) Click to alter trigger level - Actually it's far easier and more accurate to drag the trigger marker on the right hand side if the screen, but clicking here also brings up two useful buttons to 'Reset' the trigger level and 'Set to 50%'.

Obviously clicking the Trigger button takes you straight to the Trigger menu.

Some, but not all of the above shortcuts may be documented somewhere, but certainly not all (eg. the scroll wheel ones). Avoiding having to navigate the menu system for most things apart from initial setup speeds thing up quite a lot.

Hope it helps...

EDIT: A few more shortcuts:

- <Space>  brings up (or closes) the last menu selected (like clicking the Menu button)

- When in numeric popups (V/div, T/div, number key will cycle through values for that number. eg. Pressing 2 will cycle 2us 20us, 200us, 2ms etc.

- It will take the first letter of a menu item to select, eg. Trigger mode will take E, S, V, P etc. This seems to happen even after you've shifted focus. Shame it doesn't do the same thing for numerical inputs on the trigger holdoff.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 07:08:00 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline mecanico

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #45 on: January 06, 2016, 10:27:25 pm »
Hi folks,
Didn't know about this scope.
I would like to know if it is better than hantek, even with the aftermarket software?

Greetings
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2016, 09:11:36 am »
I would like to know if it is better than hantek, even with the aftermarket software?

It all depends on what you want to use it for.  Some things, yes.  Other things, no.  It's not black & white.
 

Offline GyroTopic starter

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2016, 11:52:57 am »
That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.
Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2016, 01:22:36 pm »
That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.

No, Chris.  Just grumpy at 4am maybe  :o, when someone can't be bothered to read anything that has been posted here.  After all the effort that has been invested by folks like you, doing all the work to provide it for them.   :palm:


The sad fact is that even the best aftermarket software in the world isn't going to change the fundamental capabilities of the hardware, which have been shown to be dramatically better on the Owon than the Hantek.

OTOH, if what someone needs is a long-duration data streamer, the Owon is simply incapable of that.  So the Hantek wins there, and that's all I use mine for. 

For others, the relatively small increment in price for the Owon may be an insurmountable hurdle, and better to have the Hantek than nothing at all (and benefit from the 3rd party software, generously made available at no cost).  Because that's really the niche that the Hantek fills... better than nothing at all.  (But such folks need to be prepared to pay that price many times over, dealing with the handicaps of actually using the Hantek.)


Is that better?   >:D

 

Offline mecanico

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2016, 06:25:42 pm »
Hello Mark_O
First of all, I would like to thank you for answer and tell you that I actually read most of the thread. However, since my background aren't eletronics, as you might guess, I didn't understand most of it (maybe I should apologize for that :-// ???
Let me explain you, I'm starting to move with eletronics, and what I want is to be able to control microprocessores and actuators/transducers... That is why I want to buy a USB oscillscope because being it a hobby, I don't wan't to spend a fortune on it. I don't mind spending an extra 20€ or something beyond the hantek value, what I would like to know is if these extra  20€ are worth it...


PS: maybe you should get some sleep  :-+

Greetings
That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.

No, Chris.  Just grumpy at 4am maybe  :o, when someone can't be bothered to read anything that has been posted here.  After all the effort that has been invested by folks like you, doing all the work to provide it for them.   :palm:


The sad fact is that even the best aftermarket software in the world isn't going to change the fundamental capabilities of the hardware, which have been shown to be dramatically better on the Owon than the Hantek.

OTOH, if what someone needs is a long-duration data streamer, the Owon is simply incapable of that.  So the Hantek wins there, and that's all I use mine for. 

For others, the relatively small increment in price for the Owon may be an insurmountable hurdle, and better to have the Hantek than nothing at all (and benefit from the 3rd party software, generously made available at no cost).  Because that's really the niche that the Hantek fills... better than nothing at all.  (But such folks need to be prepared to pay that price many times over, dealing with the handicaps of actually using the Hantek.)


Is that better?   >:D
 


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