Author Topic: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)  (Read 120900 times)

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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2016, 12:42:38 pm »
I've just looked closer at your Line-voltage trace (276V P-P... ok 100Vrms). Please be very careful with that sort of measurement, I know it's USB isolated, but that doesn't mean that you won't get a very nasty belt of the case if you get the Live and Neutral swapped!  :scared:

Be aware also that the probes are low cost (but reasonably good quality) Chinese ones. They're not designed (Edit:or approved) for use on high energy circuits - domestic mains counts in this context.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:58:12 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2016, 01:08:02 pm »

Quote
Ah, ok, you did test it, good. From your initial post it really didn't read that way, especially when you were talking about 'just returning it or trying to repair it'.

I though you said you had tested it before taking it apart, that would imply plugging it into your USB port.  ;)  I understand your motivation though.

I did take it apart before testing it and besides those resistors everything looked OK. At that point, I didn't think what I found was hazardous to my usb port, so I plugged it in and gave it a try. It did seem to work fine but I wasn't sure about those mods so that's why I posted.

Quote
You're welcome, I hope I haven't put you off posting here, we're generally a friendly bunch (even me  :D).

Not at all, I appreciate the help and I'm happy to not have to bother with a return. It's my fault anyway, it wasn't a great post. The original post was better but I think that was the fourth time I had retyped it out. Previous attempts to submit it didn't work because my picture files were too large. Lost the post three times before i figured it out  |O Sigh, anyway...I've been browsing these forums for awhile now as a guest, tons of useful information. Hadn't had a need to post anything yet because almost every question I had came up in a search.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2016, 01:27:42 pm »
Quote
Previous attempts to submit it didn't work because my picture files were too large. Lost the post three times before i figured it out  |O

Been there, done that!  :)
Chris

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Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2016, 01:51:15 pm »
I've just looked closer at your Line-voltage trace (276V P-P... ok 100Vrms). Please be very careful with that sort of measurement, I know it's USB isolated, but that doesn't mean that you won't get a very nasty belt of the case if you get the Live and Neutral swapped!  :scared:

Be aware also that the probes are low cost (but reasonably good quality) Chinese ones. They're not designed (Edit:or approved) for use on high energy circuits - domestic mains counts in this context.

 :D Thanks for the concern. The laptop has an un-grounded cord, just as an extra precaution I pulled the AC charger anyway so it was on battery. My test leads are marked 600VDC, which i would never trust them for...but 100VAC rms i figured they'd be fine. I considered the case but neither the case, nor myself, nor anything within my reach is grounded. I also made 100% sure that the 10x prob was actually 10x. I double checked the specs on the Owon and measuring 276p-p is well within the range so long as you use the 10x. I also fused the test lead connection with a 0.5A fuse just incase something went wrong inside the Owon.

I suppose it was slightly risky but you'll notice the wave form is 100vac rms and 50Hz....kind of an odd ball utility so i couldn't resist taking a look at it.  ;)

I did say in my first post I'm a newb but to put your mind at ease I'm a certified electrician who specializes in building controls and automation. I've taken a few classes in electronics, used scopes, etc. However it's been about 6 years since I've been to school. And as far as electronics goes it was basic stuff and its been a long time. Not a whole lot of digital stuff either.

I'm always installing all these PLCs and other various controllers, networks, etc. and I've always wanted some in depth knowledge of how the electronics actually work. I've finally found the time to get into it and so far I'm really loving it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 01:53:29 pm by KNO3- »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #79 on: February 08, 2016, 02:10:22 pm »
That's good, glad to know that you know your way around mains.  :-+

Always worth flagging anyway just in case someone really new is reading later.
Chris

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Offline znww5

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2016, 12:21:12 pm »
Received my 1022(non I) this morning - cost including p&p was just under £56 from China via 'the bay' and took about a fortnight to get here.

So far I have:

1.     De-fluxed the PCB,
2.     Re-soldered the front-end screening to be flush with the deck
3.     Added the USB isolation chip

I'm still waiting for the PSU isolation chip to arrive, had to order it from Germany in the end as UK prices were rather silly or had huge p&p charges!


I started looking at scopes when my 30+ year old Hitachi began falling sick, so I needed another scope to help fix it and the 1022 was the obvious choice. I took a look at the various digital scopes and their software and was on the point of buying the Hantek when I found this forum. Having read this thread it was obvious that the 1022 was a no-brainer.

Given the price, the 1022 has vastly more functionality than the £48 LCD kits you can find and is ideal for the mainly LF/MF RF analogue stuff which I deal with - I particularly like the variable persistence facility. In all probability I will end up using this more than the old CRT scope, with most of the processing being done on-board, the host PC requirements are quite light - so you could just take the 1022, probes and CD to use with somebody elses PC.  It is also refreshing not having to wait 15 or 20 minutes for the scope to stabilse, or nurse a hernia heaving a CRT scope around !

The only thing I would like is a short-cut to the Self-Cal function, I can't seem to find that. Other than that, very pleased with what is a very useable scope for a laughably small amount of money.

Thanks again to all who contributed to this thread, it was invaluable.

David




« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 02:51:53 pm by znww5 »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2016, 08:50:20 am »
Well that was pretty good going for your first morning of ownership!  :-+

Interesting that you're going straight for USB isolation, mind you non-isolated for <£56 is a bit of a no-brainer. It will probably be helpful for others with their buying decisions if you can document your conversion cost... and maybe parts suppliers.

I'll look for a self-cal shortcut, I haven't found one yet.

Check the Owon site too to make sure you've got the latest version of the S/W.

http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175

Glad we've been some help anyway.  :)

Chris

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Offline plazma

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #82 on: February 13, 2016, 01:38:20 pm »
The price difference between the VDS1022 and isolated VDS1022I is only 17£. Is it not better to buy the isolated version than modifying the non isolated?
 

Offline znww5

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2016, 10:24:01 pm »
Re: the isolating components, I couldn't agree more - the extra £17 for the isolated version  is well worth it - however being a PC scope newbie, light only dawned after I had ordered the non-isolated unit.

By the time I have finished, my modified unit will have cost pretty much the same as the (I) version - still its only a bit of soldering!

As for parts, the USB data isolator was easy - next day delivery for £5.71 from radio spares - RS stock code 7969041

The tricky component was the power supply isolator (DCP020505U); it was either a very silly price or had the wrong pin configuration, or occasionally both. In the end I sourced one from a supplier in Germany via 'the bay'. Delivered cost is 12.90 Euros, ie around £10, item number  311151940664. There were a couple still available a few minutes ago when I checked, mine is due in a couple of days.

So as you can see, I 'saved' the princely sum of £1.29 . . . Barbados, here I come  :)

Thanks for the heads-up regarding the software Gyro, worth mentioning, but as it happened I had taken a look at the software for the two contenders, so it was sitting here on the PC before the 1022 even left China - how sad is that!

The only thing I would add for the benefit of anyone considering the upgrade (and I quite possibly missed this when reading the thread) is to mention that 6 of the 8 zero ohm resistors which need to be removed  live on the topside of the board - the other 2 can be found on the under side. Obvious when you know, but it had me scratching my head for a couple of minutes.  :palm:

David






 

Online blueskull

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #84 on: February 14, 2016, 10:49:24 pm »
TI miniature power isolators are NOT rated for operating as a high voltage isolating device.
They're designed to withstand HiPot test at 1kV/1.5kV, not operating at any significant voltage.
In fact, they are rated to operate at only SELV, which is 60V.

Using these devices on a PC oscilloscope is a design mistake.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #85 on: February 15, 2016, 10:00:05 am »
Quote
Using these devices on a PC oscilloscope is a design mistake.

I'm not sure I would agree with that. The purpose of USB Isolation is to break the ground loop with the PC / mains ground and so to provide ground protection and improved noise rejection.

It's very rare that you would actually want to float the scope ground at an significantly high voltage... and if so, you would need to take other special precautions like insulating the case.  The DC-DC is rated for the SELV that would apply in safe usage and has a healthy HiPot rating (as does the USB isolator). You need to start looking very carefully at PCB creepage and clearance to think of using a scope above SELV.

@znww5: Thanks for posting the costings. Yes probably not worth the cost saving but very useful for retrofitting isolation at a later date (you just happen to have done it rather sooner than normal!  ;D ).
Chris

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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #86 on: May 20, 2016, 01:19:54 pm »
I've noticed that there's a new version of the VDS1022 PC software on the Owon site, Version 1.0.23, dated 29th April 2016 (the previous one was version 1.0.11). I've downloaded and tried it and it seems to work fine. I haven't noticed any specific changes, although the response of the menu system definitely seems faster. Unfortunately there is no revision history provided.

It's always worth keeping a copy of the previous version installation file of course.

http://www.owon.com.hk/products_info.asp?ProID=175

P.S. I've also noticed that the s/w supports SCPI protocol for remote control, not sure how long that's been there.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 01:28:58 pm by Gyro »
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Offline samsagaz

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #87 on: June 06, 2016, 06:24:18 pm »
Nice review! Btw, will this small oscilloscope be OK to measure and design simple audio amps? will be OK to check amplifier stages distortions and  see how looks the amplifier wave?

i used some old tektronix in the past, but i sell all my units because money problems. Now i want to purchase it again but as im not in the USA impossible to purchase used ones from ebay, so im looking some small (to save shippings fee to Argentina) that help me with simple audio gears :)

Thanks in advance.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #88 on: June 08, 2016, 01:02:22 pm »
Thanks samsagaz  :)

Yes sure, it will do a fine job visually checking audio signals for distortion, in much the same way as you would use an analogue scope (not sure if the Tek ones that you were referring to were analogue or digital). You can look for clipping, crossover distortions etc. If you get the USB isolated 'i' version you can avoid ground loops too.

You should note however that it is an 8 bit resolution scope (as are most DSOs, Rigol etc.) so you can't expect to measure low distortions using the FFT function. For high resolution distortion measurements you would need a 12 (or better, 16) bit scope. These are obviously in a different price range, but you could maybe also consider the Digilent Analog Discovery which I think is 12 bit. You could improve this situation by building a notch filter (Twin-T or similar) to attenuate the fundamental frequency of your test signal, so that you only see at the distortion products.
Chris

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Offline jopereira

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #89 on: June 08, 2016, 03:27:53 pm »
OWON also have a 12bit scope (new in the range).
 

Offline samsagaz

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2016, 07:25:33 pm »
yeah, but dont have too much money :)
 

Offline fourtytwo

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #91 on: June 15, 2016, 06:32:19 pm »
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have just bought one of these largely based on this review (being the only one I found)

OK it works BUT!!!!! any timebase setting slower than 50mS/div gets the following warning from the trigger system.......

"When the time per divider longer than 100ms, trigger will be set default as auto mode."

And sure enough it wont lock the display just like an untriggered waveform in auto, even single shot doesn't work!!  In a word, useless!!

I have mailed Owon today, if I ever get a reply I will be sure to let you know.

This is not mentioned in there product specs or manuals anywhere.

So Sad, did I just half waste the £90 it cost me :(
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #92 on: June 15, 2016, 08:26:12 pm »
Hi Roger and welcome to the forum,

Sorry if I missed something in my review. I haven't had cause to use mine at 100ms/div or slower and have never seen that message. I've just tried it and seen what you mean. No one else seems to have flagged it either. I can't think why that would be, clearly not a handling speed problem, the main concern on USB scopes is whether they can reliably handle their maximum rated speeds. I've just been back through my collection of earlier s/w versions (never throw anything away) and it doesn't appear to be a newly introduced issue.

At least at those sort of timebase settings you shouldn't have any difficulty following the trace, I agree though that the absence of single trigger at those settings is an issue. It does sound as if it is for your application.

The last s/w version that I have seen was released at the end of April (one thing that would be helpful would be a revision history since it jumped a few versions since the previous one), so it appears to be still in active development (and they have fixed an issue I reported just before Christmas). Please do report back on what the respond with. I may well report it too, strength in numbers and I don't like unnecessary restrictions.

P.S. I understand that you're a bit p**'d off, but the "!!!!WARNING WARNING WARNING!!!!!!" seems a bit over the top, don't you think?


« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:28:41 pm by Gyro »
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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #93 on: June 15, 2016, 08:47:37 pm »
Isn't this just going into Roll mode, the addition of Roll in the UI having been lost in translation?  :-//
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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #94 on: June 15, 2016, 08:51:09 pm »
Could be. I only tried the S/W setting with the scope unplugged as I'm not in the 'playroom' at the moment.

Edit: It would still be helpful if the single trigger worked, I can't think of a reason why it couldn't.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:54:25 pm by Gyro »
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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #95 on: June 15, 2016, 08:56:44 pm »
Could be. I only tried the S/W setting with the scope unplugged as I'm not in the 'playroom' at the moment.

Edit: It would still be helpful if the single trigger worked, I can't think of a reason why it couldn't.
Yes, of course.
It still might if selected before slowing the timebase. This you need to check.

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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #96 on: June 15, 2016, 08:59:40 pm »
Nope, it does lock it out.
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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #97 on: June 15, 2016, 09:10:35 pm »
Nope, it does lock it out.
Ok, if that's how the UI works on this DSO, do we now call it user error, a different implementation of triggering in the slow timebases or a bug?  :-//
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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #98 on: June 15, 2016, 09:27:46 pm »
Hmm, good question. I don't know how other DSOs do it.  :-// It doesn't seem like something to get all emotional about though.

I've just tried sending a question to the direct email that Owon were using to communicate with me when I reported a bug back in January. Maybe they will come back with something, or maybe even come in with a technical support rather than sales post, who knows.

Edit: Actually I do know how Picoscope do it, they offer a choice of scroll or refresh display, but they're in a different price bracket.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 09:30:19 pm by Gyro »
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Offline fourtytwo

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #99 on: June 16, 2016, 09:24:22 am »
Hello, thanks for the replies! I think WARNING is fair given the scope has a fault!
If the triggering system doesn't work above 50mS/div it should say so in the spec.

Thank you for your rollback testing, this was most unexpected to me as I cannot see why they have a problem.

It is not unusual to use single shot at low speeds to capture events, even my 35yo 465 will happily trigger at its slowest timebase setting of 500mS/div and very useful too however its not a DSO.

Roll mode if you like to call it that is of no use whatsoever for random event capture unless you want to stare at the screen forever AND the display is still not precisely located around the event (due to variable human reaction time!).

Here's hoping they can fix it :)
Roger
 


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