Owon XDS3202E vs Siglent SDS1202X-E

[Wuerstchenhund]

Do you not think Instek scopes look weird?

Well, the word that comes to my mind would be 'bland'. Don't get me wrong, their housing design is completely practical, it just looks awfully boring.

Same for their UI btw, although usability-wise it seems OK.

Have a look at their latest models if you think the Owon looks bad.

I don't think any GW Instek scope emits anything close to the goofiness and toy-ish appearance as an OWON scope.

And while the GW Instek may look bland, the build quality is pretty good. Can't say the same for the OWON.

That's really the sort of thing I'm talking about. I would say in terms of looks it goes Keysight>Tek>LeCroy>>>>Rigol>Siglent>Owon>Instek

Keysight - I like the DSO-X case design but the Infiniiums always leave me thinking that they could have added a few more buttons for such expensive scopes

LeCroy - I really like the WaveRunner 6zi (only scope with a pivotable widescreen display) and the WavePro 7zi(-A)/WaveMaster 8zi-A (nice large screen, detachable front panel, WM also comes with ProBus interface in addition to the standard ProLink interfaces). I don't like their current crop of Siglent rebadges (WaveAce) because the LeCroy housing looks pretty unpolished compared to the original Siglent housing.

Tek - Case design wise they're OK, DPO/MSO2000 and DPO/MSO/MDO3k look a bit like the Rigol DS1000z/DS2000/DS4000 - standard functional beige cases. I like that the  DPO/MSO/MDO4k and 5k have full keypads which is nice.

In terms of cosmetics I have no preference for any scope, all of them look fine. And at the end of the day, what's in the case is more important.

[dos]

Well, the word that comes to my mind would be 'bland'. Don't get me wrong, their housing design is completely practical, it just looks awfully boring.

Something tells me you're thinking of the previous generation of Instek scopes, which are what I would think of as bland:



The new ones however look to me like the complete opposite of bland, obnoxiously funky:



In person they're worse because all marketing shots white balance it so the yellowish case doesn't show :



Really these particular scopes epitomize bad Chinese industrial design to me, it's basically what happens every time a Chinese company decides they need to stop copying good things and make themselves stand out. Horrible design sensibilities, like they grabbed a random student at Shenzen Municipal Art Instruction Cooperative #6B and forced them to make it at gunpoint. Owons strike me the same way, and it feels like now Siglent are heading down this road after years of making decent looking stuff (before Siglent reps get all bothered, please understand I like what's inside Siglent scopes just fine. Think of it as constructive criticism.)

I like that the  DPO/MSO/MDO4k and 5k have full keypads which is nice.

MDO3Ks have this too and it's something I really wish would get copied.

[tautech]

Then what do you think about this dos ?

[dos]

Then what do you think about this dos ?

It's fine, it looks good in the original Siglent white too, no strange colors or knobs etc:



Of course it's also very expensive. Why not make the cheaper ones look good professional?

[Wuerstchenhund]

Well, the word that comes to my mind would be 'bland'. Don't get me wrong, their housing design is completely practical, it just looks awfully boring.

Something tells me you're thinking of the previous generation of Instek scopes, which are what I would think of as bland:

This isn't the 'previous generation', this is a scope that was sold in 2008 (and at that time pretty much all entry level scopes had a similar design).

The previous generation were the GDS-2000A and the GDS-1000A and all of them had a similar case design as the current GDS-1000B and GDS-2000E.

The new ones however look to me like the complete opposite of bland, obnoxiously funky:

I'm sorry but I can't see anything 'funky' on these scopes, there is no overuse of bright colors and no glitter effects.

I know you can't argue about looks but to me it just looks bland and boring, although functional.

Really these particular scopes epitomize bad Chinese industrial design to me, it's basically what happens every time a Chinese company decides they need to make themselves stand out.

I agree to some extend, although it's not to stand out but to come up with a design of their own. It's not common in China to leave product design to an experienced designer, often it's done by the same guy that makes the PCB, and he'll just design a box with holes for encoder shafts and screen based on where they are on the PCB. To our Western sensibilities this often looks ugly, but I have to see that the GW instek's are not even close to the horrors I've seen in Chinese products, as they are still perfectly ergonomic and useable.

Also, this is something that over time will go away, as Chinese design evolves and more design and Human Factors educated people get into Chinese companies. Don't forget that Japan once had the role as the global manufacturer of cheap crap, and look where they are today.

Horrible design sensibilities, like they grabbed a random student at Shenzen Municipal Art Instruction Cooperative #6B and forced them to make it at gunpoint. Owons strike me the same way, and it feels like Siglent are heading down this road (before Siglent reps get all bothered, please understand I like what's inside Siglent scopes just fine. Think of it as constructive criticism.

I like that the  DPO/MSO/MDO4k and 5k have full keypads which is nice.

MDO3Ks have this too and it's something I really wish would get copied.

You're right, as a former MDO3k owner I should have known that it also has the keypad

But with more and more scopes employing touch screens the lack of a hardware keypad is no longer an issue.

[tautech]

Then what do you think about this dos ?

It's fine, it looks good in the original Siglent white too, no strange colors or knobs etc:

So you're happy using scopes with multiplexed vertical controls ?       

[dos]

This isn't the 'previous generation', this is a scope that was sold in 2008 (and at that time pretty much all entry level scopes had a similar design).

I'm sorry I should have clarified I meant the previous generation of their design, not the hardware.

[dos]

So you're happy using scopes with multiplexed vertical controls ?       

I'm not sure how many times I have to explain that I'm separating ergonomics from looks. No I would rather not have that. I think the Rigol 1054Z is a good looking scope, but I don't like it's ergonomics (or performance). I think the 1202X-E is an ergonomically good scope (and good performing) but I don't like it's looks. I think the Keysight 2000X series both looks good and is ergonomically good, same goes for the Tek DPO/MSO/MDO 2K/3K.

E: And I have to clarify again that this is just subjective observation. I wouldn't buy or not buy a scope based on looks unless it was particularly egregious like the Instek. I'm just observing that most cheap Chinese scopes excluding Rigol are ugly, it's a fact of life that most cheap Chinese stuff designed by Chinese people is ugly. That doesn't stop us from using it if it's a good value

[Wuerstchenhund]

So you're happy using scopes with multiplexed vertical controls ?       

I'd take a scope with multiplexed vertical control over one with separate controls any day, simply because with the multiplexed variant I can make changes without having to move my hand. Also, the saved space over separate vertical controls can be used for a larger screen

[tautech]

I think the 1202X-E is an ergonomically good scope (and good performing) but I don't like it's looks.

E: And I have to clarify again that this is just subjective observation. I wouldn't buy or not buy a scope based on looks unless it was particularly egregious like the Instek. I'm just observing that most cheap Chinese scopes excluding Rigol are ugly, it's a fact of life that most cheap Chinese stuff designed by Chinese people is ugly. That doesn't stop us from using it if it's a good value

Then point out what doesn't rock your boat.



We are talking about an economy model and initially I thought the look was a little retro (ahla SDS1000C*L) but I see purpose and functionality in this design not ugliness.
I guess the old saying comes out now: beauty is the eye of the beholder........even if he is one eyed.   

[tautech]

So you're happy using scopes with multiplexed vertical controls ?       

I'd take a scope with multiplexed vertical control over one with separate controls any day, simply because with the multiplexed variant I can make changes without having to move my hand. Also, the saved space over separate vertical controls can be used for a larger screen

User preference is OK but I and others hope that Siglent retain a point of difference with individual vertical controls and 400V inputs.

[dos]

Then point out what doesn't rock your boat.

Look first of all to me Siglent is not the worst offender here. Owon and Instek are far worse and who I was mostly talking about. I just feel like Siglent is starting to slip in that direction because to me it looks kind of... slapped together? I don't know how to explain it but there's a lot of "change for the sake of change" here compared to the CML with seemingly not much thought put into it. If you really want me to nitpick:

The second channel is pink and a really bad shade at that (you explained in another thread they wanted a different color to ~stand out~ but why that one? It's better to blend in than do something lame looking.), the dark backgrounds of the horizontal and vertical control panel with black markings on them, the black border around the screen (though everyone is doing this now, this one doesn't even try to work into the design, it's just there). The shiny plastic knobs look toylike even compared to the knobs on the normal 1202X, the big bright blue auto button. Alone none of these things would be bad but they combine to make something that looks not very appealing to me, personally. It just looks very... low end Chinese. The "we don't give a damn" look.

Again it's just me. And to be honest my next scope will probably be a Siglent, because I like what they're doing where it counts, in hardware, ergonomics, and value for money. But I think it looks worse and less professional compared to my CML, and that kind of sucks. The new thing should look better or at least stay the same, not look cheaper. I don't want some breakdown of why they chose each design element and why it's actually really good and I should totally love everything about it, because I don't. All things have flaws and when a customer's main issue with your product is "it looks kinda chintzy" you're probably doing more right than wrong.

[dos]

but I see purpose and functionality in this design not ugliness.

I want to address this separately. It looks purposeful and functional to me too, that's to do with the layout of the buttons and knobs and the nice screen and all that. It's well thought out and better than most imo. I have zero question this scope will work as I expect it to and not do anything stupid on an ergonomic level, unlike stuff like Owon or Instek (or even Rigol). I'm talking about really minor stuff like colors and materials (for materials it's really just the knobs).

To me this is a Chinese scope that gets that stuff (again, I'm talking about superficial looks, I know Siglent performs better and is ergonomically better) nearly 99% right:



It's just my personal taste.

[oleh]

I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. The Owon salesman up there is trying to make it seem like he's an average consumer who has an Owon he's very happy with, but bought a Siglent 1202X-E for some reason, a scope that's a similar low end class (but still OK!) as the Owon. I think that a normal consumer would rather have a better scope for the cost of the low end Owon and Siglent combined, like say a Siglent 2000X (or whatever the Owon/Rigol/Instek/etcetcetc equivalent is). By two distributors I meant rf-loop and oleh, but at least you and rf-loop are honest and put that you're a distributor in your sig. I'm sorry I don't like the way your scopes (or any recent Chinese scopes) look. You're right that it doesn't matter and the specs are good but come on they still look goofy and amateurish.

Oh boy... I'm a HFT software developer at one stock exchange. I make ultra low latency software combining linux hacks with FPGA processing. I'm just looking for a tool which can help with my crazy weekend robotic projects. I have done with CNC machine which can produce some mechanical parts. Now I need a tool for pure electronics research.

By this Saturday I want to decide which Amazon order is going back:

This:

Order Placed: July 27, 2017
Amazon.com order number: ...............-3023457
Order Total: $360.05

Shipped on July 27, 2017
 
Items Ordered   Price
1 of: OWON XDS3202E 200MHz 1GS/s 2-channel Digital Storage Oscilloscope, 8 inch TFT-LCD ( 800x600 ), 40M record length, standard I2C, SPI, RS232 and CAN decoding, 75,000wfms/s refresh rate
Sold by: VIVITEQ (seller profile)

Condition: New
$379.00


Or this:

Order Placed: July 20, 2017
Amazon.com order number: .................-7864253
Order Total: $412.64

Shipped on July 21, 2017
 
Items Ordered   Price
1 of: Siglent Technologies SDS1202X-E 200 mhz Digital Oscilloscope 2 Channels, Grey
Sold by: Amazon.com LLC

Condition: New

By the way, I didn't find "standard I2C, SPI, RS232 and CAN decoding" in Owon but was not able to decode 9600 RS232 with Siglent also.

I will post some other tests later if you don't mind.

[dos]

Can you post a video of how responsive the Owon is to control inputs? Like play with the timebase and volts/div etc. while a waveform is on the screen, move the signal position, etc. with your hand moving the controls in the frame. Also when Dave reviewed this he said there is no intensity grading, is this true? Maybe demonstrate that in the video as well. From everything I've seen (Dave's video and not much else) these Owon scopes look like ergonomic nightmares.

If you're not actually amazon seller VIVITEQ I'm sorry it just kinda seems that way when someone signs up to post about how brand X totally destroys brand Y with weird comparisons and nothing else. Why not make an objective full featured review video Dave style and then you can learn a lot about the scope in the process (and learn if you want to keep it) and really show off it's strengths/weaknesses because there is not much info about this scope out there. Really run it through its paces side by side the Siglent, that could be fun and interesting.

[oleh]

Can you post a video of how responsive the Owon is to control inputs? Like play with the timebase and volts/div etc. while a waveform is on the screen, move the signal position, etc. with your hand moving the controls in the frame. Also when Dave reviewed this he said there is no intensity grading, is this true? Maybe demonstrate that in the video as well. From everything I've seen (Dave's video and not much else) these Owon scopes look like ergonomic nightmares.

If you're not actually amazon seller VIVITEQ I'm sorry it just kinda seems that way when someone signs up to post about how brand X totally destroys brand Y with weird comparisons and nothing else. Why not make an objective full featured review video Dave style and then you can learn a lot about the scope in the process (and learn if you want to keep it) and really show off it's strengths/weaknesses because there is not much info about this scope out there. Really run it through its paces side by side the Siglent, that could be fun and interesting.

There are a lot of pros and cons. I understand them well. I didn't try GUI inertia for a purpose, but I was noticing some. It didn't bother me for some reason. I don't know why. I will try to make some videos, but sorry, no voice comments - my english sucks big time And time is running out also... unfortunately. I'm looking for something what will work for my needs more or less for next two years without tech support. I don't expect any big coming from China developers. It would be the best is they could publish some tech info then the community would be able to develop much better software. The hardware itself is good enough.

[oleh]

The Owon software for PC and Android does  not work. PC software can only show some waveforms but crashes when I try to start control panel. Android was not able to connect at all. I believe it because software cannot understand model name string "XDS3202E". I just need their SCPI commands, will do a little research. It does not recognize SDS series command, except some basic.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Oh boy... I'm a HFT software developer at one stock exchange. I make ultra low latency software combining linux hacks with FPGA processing. I'm just looking for a tool which can help with my crazy weekend robotic projects. I have done with CNC machine which can produce some mechanical parts. Now I need a tool for pure electronics research.

By this Saturday I want to decide which Amazon order is going back

Frankly, if you want a reliable scope that helps you for your project and the choice is between the Siglent SDS1202X-E and the OWON XDS3202E then this shouldn't be difficult - keep the Siglent.

When I had a SDS2000 I suffered from my fair share of Siglent's inability to write software, but I'd still consider them several levels above OWON where not only the firmware is questionable but also the hardware. And user reports for the SDS1202X-E suggest that the firmware doesn't have a lot of bugs, an unlike back then with the SDS2000 Siglent is now actually fixing them more or less quickly.

[oleh]

Oh boy... I'm a HFT software developer at one stock exchange. I make ultra low latency software combining linux hacks with FPGA processing. I'm just looking for a tool which can help with my crazy weekend robotic projects. I have done with CNC machine which can produce some mechanical parts. Now I need a tool for pure electronics research.

By this Saturday I want to decide which Amazon order is going back

Frankly, if you want a reliable scope that helps you for your project and the choice is between the Siglent SDS1202X-E and the OWON XDS3202E then this shouldn't be difficult - keep the Siglent.

When I had a SDS2000 I suffered from my fair share of Siglent's inability to write software, but I'd still consider them several levels above OWON where not only the firmware is questionable but also the hardware. And user reports for the SDS1202X-E suggest that the firmware doesn't have a lot of bugs, an unlike back then with the SDS2000 Siglent is now actually fixing them more or less quickly.

Problem with Siglent- they have just switched to a new platform: new SoC and new FPGA (2 in 1 Zynq). Doesn't matter what they do, they will need couple years to sort everything out. It is just my IMHO.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Problem with Siglent- they have just switched to a new platform: new SoC and new FPGA (2 in 1 Zynq). Doesn't matter what they do, they will need couple years to sort everything out. It is just my IMHO.

So what? OWON hasn't really "sorted out" anything, be it hardware quality or the shoddy software. Based on a choice between only these two scopes there's no question that the Siglent is very likely the better scope.

Or you can do what someone else has suggested, send them both back and buy something else (i.e. a GW Instek GDS-1000B, or the new Keysight DSO-X1000).

[dos]

Despite my brain telling me it's a stupid ripoff my heart wants the Keysight X-1000. If that thing (DSOX not EDUX), was $400 it would be on my bench right now, no questions asked. The price right now is just insane though, what are they smoking? Wait, don't answer, it's the same stuff Tek is smoking.

[oleh]

Problem with Siglent- they have just switched to a new platform: new SoC and new FPGA (2 in 1 Zynq). Doesn't matter what they do, they will need couple years to sort everything out. It is just my IMHO.

So what? OWON hasn't really "sorted out" anything, be it hardware quality or the shoddy software. Based on a choice between only these two scopes there's no question that the Siglent is very likely the better scope.

Or you can do what someone else has suggested, send them both back and buy something else (i.e. a GW Instek GDS-1000B, or the new Keysight DSO-X1000).

Siglent was hanging to death when I was saving waveform data to flash drive (two different). I had to unplug its power cord in order to reset. How can I set wall clock time? All files I created were 50 years old 

Not everything is obvious in this battle of liliputs 

[dos]

Siglent was hanging to death when I was saving waveform data to flash drive (two different).

Why not capture a video of this?

[oleh]

Siglent was hanging to death when I was saving waveform data to flash drive (two different).

Why not capture a video of this?

I will try. Don't remember exact case. I was not going to post anything here a week ago.

[tautech]

Then point out what doesn't rock your boat.

Look first of all to me Siglent is not the worst offender here. Owon and Instek are far worse and who I was mostly talking about. I just feel like Siglent is starting to slip in that direction because to me it looks kind of... slapped together? I don't know how to explain it but there's a lot of "change for the sake of change" here compared to the CML with seemingly not much thought put into it. If you really want me to nitpick:

Please do.

The second channel is pink and a really bad shade at that (you explained in another thread they wanted a different color to ~stand out~ but why that one?

We need look at 4 ch scopes for the answer.
Channel colours are pretty much industry standardised but not the order of the channel they represent.
All manufacturers have their preferred colour scheme and some have been a particular way for decades.
In C*L models their was a clash of colour order with later Siglent 4 channel scopes. When the C*L + models were released a short while back the ch 2 blue was swapped for magenta so all Siglent models now have the same colour scheme. In some older firmwares the pink was darkened to magenta for better visibility.
As for all colours, display settings have some effect on visibility.

It's better to blend in than do something lame looking.), the dark backgrounds of the horizontal and vertical control panel with black markings on them, the black border around the screen (though everyone is doing this now, this one doesn't even try to work into the design, it's just there).

We see the shaded backgrounds in the CML+ too.

The shiny plastic knobs look toylike even compared to the knobs on the normal 1202X, the big bright blue auto button. Alone none of these things would be bad but they combine to make something that looks not very appealing to me, personally. It just looks very... low end Chinese. The "we don't give a damn" look.

So let's put them up together.


Yes for the economy model the control knobs are different, I get that why can't you.
You might have spotted in another thread where a new X-E owner had pimped the DSO with 2000X knobs at additional cost...........want better knobs then the price will increase.
There are subtle differences between X and X-E, primarily the button layouts were the X-E has improved by placing the Print into the top group.
One major improvement between C*L and X models is the separation of the Default button to well away from commonly used controls.

Again it's just me. And to be honest my next scope will probably be a Siglent, because I like what they're doing where it counts, in hardware, ergonomics, and value for money. But I think it looks worse and less professional compared to my CML, and that kind of sucks. The new thing should look better or at least stay the same, not look cheaper. I don't want some breakdown of why they chose each design element and why it's actually really good and I should totally love everything about it, because I don't. All things have flaws and when a customer's main issue with your product is "it looks kinda chintzy" you're probably doing more right than wrong.

As there's nobody else chiming in with a similar viewpoint ........... 

What struck you about the CML when you bought it ?
Was it really looks or features ?