EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Lomax on February 15, 2017, 02:24:00 pm
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I know this kind of gear is universally sniffed at, and I'm very fond of my HP 54645D MSO, my TTi TG-1010 function generator, and my TTi 1705 bench multimeter. They're all great bits of kit, and I get that warm fuzzy feeling every time I use them. However, I will be moving onto a houseboat in the near future, and not only do I need every £ I can lay my hands on to finance this project, I will also be limited to a grand total of 20 square meters of living space :o This means I need to get rid of basically everything I own, which sadly includes most of the lovely gear in my workshop :( I do plan to have a little corner for tinkering with electronics though, and I'll be keeping a few essential bits of kit, such as my Weller soldering station, my stereo microscope and a few carefully selected items. On the test & measurement side, there is considerable scope(!) for saving space by going to a PC based solution, and despite the negative opinion most people seem to have of these, I thought I'd ask: If you had to use a PC scope / function generator / multimeter, which one would you choose?
Edit: I reckon I could get something like £600 on the second hand market for the T&M gear I would be replacing, so the budget for the PC based solution(s) should ideally not exceed this (~$750).
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My vote: Picoscope (with arb gen) + handheld DMM (you might need a portable meter for checking houseboat wiring!)
Good luck with the move, sounds like fun!
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Picoscope...
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Consider getting a Fluke 27FM or not FM as your carry around multimeter. They are built to take a pounding and harsh environments. They can be had for under $100.
I also would recommend a Picoscope. You might also want to look at the Digilent Analog Discovery line. It depends though on what frequency range you want to deal with.
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Consider getting a Fluke 27FM or not FM as your carry around multimeter. They are built to take a pounding and harsh environments. They can be had for under $100.
Waterproof, too! That might come in handy for long-term reliability in a boating environment.
(Fluke 27 FTW!)
I also would recommend a Picoscope. You might also want to look at the Digilent Analog Discovery line. It depends though on what frequency range you want to deal with.
Yep. If "PC based" is a requirement then Picoscope is the way to go.
Modern DSOs aren't very big though.
PS: Your old stuff might still come in handy. They don't call them "boat anchors" for nothing!
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Good to hear such a unanimous endorsement :) The Series 2000 2ch+MSO looks like the one to go for. Not sure about bandwidth, but I've never pushed the 100MHz limit on my HP. I only use it too for things like checking audio signals for distortion, looking at pulse trains and signals from encoders, transducers, PWM drivers, slope, ringing, overshoot, checking general "health" of I2C, 1-Wire, RS232/485 and SPI buses. Do I really need more than 50MHz bandwidth for any of this? The 50MHz model is £429 + VAT - just about within my budget - while the 100MHz is £699 + VAT...
Hand-held multimeter is definitely on my shopping list - and has been for a long time! But that quest is really worthy of its own thread. I sold my Fluke 117 six months ago; fed up with the poor display and the lack of a mA range. Since then my only hand-held meter has been an ancient Tillquist I've had since my school days (hey, it does mA!). The Fluke 115/116/117 form factor is ideal though, and I don't really want anything larger (needs to fit in my cramped toolbox). A while back I bought a Testo 760, hoping it would be the answer, but I was disappointed by its bulky size and cheap, Chinese, construction. Ended up giving it away in disgust. Been looking at the 87V, which can be had for ~£250, but I'm turned off by the size. I'll take a look at the Fluke 27; not a model I have considered before.
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PS: Your old stuff might still come in handy. They don't call them "boat anchors" for nothing!
The main problem is that once he uses his equipment as boat anchors, he can't really use it for anything else! ;D
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PS: Your old stuff might still come in handy. They don't call them "boat anchors" for nothing!
The main problem is that once he uses his equipment as boat anchors, he can't really use it for anything else! ;D
You say that, but I had a Thinkpad T43p which got completely submerged when my office flooded - after drying up for a week or so it continued to run just fine for years. Sea water would be a different matter though, I'm sure...
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A 54645D IS NOT REALLY THAT BIG....
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A 54645D IS NOT REALLY THAT BIG....
That is true. Nor is it heavy enough to be an effective anchor :D But if I can combine the functionality of the HP MSO, and my TTi function generator (which is almost the same size) in a tiny box like the Picoscope, that would really make a difference. But there's another thing: while I do have a 2kW inverter on board, I'm wary of having too many power hungry devices - the Picoscope is USB powered so will not only be low power, but easy to power from the 12V system as well (since the laptop running the software will be).
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It really is with a heavy heart that I'm doing this :( The 54645D may be yesterday's gear, but it's yesterday's $20k gear - and you really feel it when you use it. Never again will I twiddle its high-quality encoder knobs, or push those amazing feeling buttons. And while I'll be able to play Centipede in colour on the PC running the scope software, there's something pretty special about doing it on the green phosphor screen of an oscilloscope. *sigh*
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I'd get rid of the houseboat! >:D
More serious: I'd give the PC based tools a good test run before settling on that solution. Isn't there are way to keep your current equipment stored on the boat in a clever way?
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Well for pure performance/size, I don't think you'll beat a Digilent Analog Discovery.
The scope function bandwidth is 30+MHz if you use the $20 BNC adapter and real probes. See page 22 of the technical reference manual (https://reference.digilentinc.com/_media/reference/instrumentation/analog-discovery-2/ad2_rm.pdf) for the details. (They have some crazy rational for why they market it as 10Mhz - not confusing students, etc).
Likewise the AWG bandwidth is about 10 MHz.
I would think those specs should be more than adequate for the use case you described.
Also - if you do much audio work, forum member jaxbird has a very nice audio analyzer package that works with the AD . See this thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/analog-disovery-as-audio-analyzer/)
In additon you get a logic analyzer (essential making it a MSO since you can run this concurrently with the scope), spectrum analyzer, network analyzer, digital pattern generator, 2 true RMS voltmeters (to 25V) and a low power 5V power supply.
All in a package the size of a deck of cards!
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I'd get rid of the houseboat! >:D
More serious: I'd give the PC based tools a good test run before settling on that solution. Isn't there are way to keep your current equipment stored on the boat in a clever way?
Hehe, a friend of mine sent me a card that said "Invested your life's savings in buying a boat, just to realise the best day in your life was buying it - and the second best day will be selling it!". I sometimes worry this might be true... I will be storing some stuff, but I also need money; the boat is currently in the shipyard for a refit and the bill just keeps rising... There will be a major clear out on eBay happening in the next week or so - among other much cherished objects I'll also be getting rid of Vlad the 'Blad; my Hasselblad 503CXi :'( Everything must go!
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Well for pure performance/size, I don't think you'll beat a Digilent Analog Discovery.
That may be true... but... they look like toys? It doesn't even have shielded analogue inputs? I may be on a budget, but replacing my HP DSO with that would feel like I've cut of an arm. At least the Picoscope has BNC inputs and comes with some pretty classy looking software...
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The 50MHz model is £429 + VAT - just about within my budget - while the 100MHz is £699 + VAT...
There is also 2207B MSO:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/small-scope-needed/msg1106135/#msg1106135 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/small-scope-needed/msg1106135/#msg1106135)
Said to have actual BW far over 100MHz in post. Maybe this is good compromise. I will be getting one of these also soon, currently on the fence on exact model. Have old 25MHz models and even these keep surprising with interesting features. With MSO you can create additional analog channel(s) with up to 16bit accuracy using cheap extra hardware:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-you-do-with-math-channels-on-oscilloscope/msg1130997/#msg1130997 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/what-you-do-with-math-channels-on-oscilloscope/msg1130997/#msg1130997)
Good for monitoring power related stuff with Arduino, but high speed also if pick according helper hardware.
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There is also 2207B MSO:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/small-scope-needed/msg1106135/#msg1106135 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/small-scope-needed/msg1106135/#msg1106135)
Said to have actual BW far over 100MHz in post.
Tequipment has this on sale now for $439 - less with EEVblog discount
They also have the 2206B with nominal 50MHz BW (meets the OPs needs) on sale for only $304 - lower with the discount.
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There are some useful deals here https://www.picotech.com/picoassured (https://www.picotech.com/picoassured) although they are out of MSOs.
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Thanks guys, interesting! I found this review of the 2208B MSO: http://codeandlife.com/2016/05/29/picoscope-2208b-mso-review (http://codeandlife.com/2016/05/29/picoscope-2208b-mso-review) He goes through the functionality in some detail, and it all looks very good. I think the 2206B MSO would be my model. £515 delivered. Shame they didn't have any refurbished, though I'll keep an eye on that page going forward.
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boat : hole in the water the owner keeps throwing money in ...
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boat : hole in the water the owner keeps throwing money in ...
Have you been spying on me!? :o
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Actually, for the moment at least, the "hole" I'm throwing money into is on dry land.
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I'd get rid of the houseboat! >:D
More serious: I'd give the PC based tools a good test run before settling on that solution. Isn't there are way to keep your current equipment stored on the boat in a clever way?
Hehe, a friend of mine sent me a card that said "Invested your life's savings in buying a boat, just to realise the best day in your life was buying it - and the second best day will be selling it!". I sometimes worry this might be true...
On Pawn Stars they have a saying: "A boat is a hole in the water which makes money dissapear".
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I think the 2206B MSO would be my model. £515 delivered. Shame they didn't have any refurbished, though I'll keep an eye on that page going forward.
Resurrecting this topic to let you all know that PicoTech are doing some great Black Friday deals - I have just bought a Picoscope 2206B MSO for £410 delivered! See https://www.picotech.com/picoassured (https://www.picotech.com/picoassured)