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phase noise analyzer and phase noise measurement

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jhenderson0107:
Based on the published specifications (https://qsl.net/bg6khc/pn2060c_phase_noise_analyzer.htm), direct phase noise measurements of the PN2060C are limited to <= 200 MHz.  To extend measurement range beyond 200 MHz, an external mixer and high-quality LO are required. 

hpw:

--- Quote from: tjadwy on February 19, 2024, 11:45:06 pm ---Anyone can share some test results?  :popcorn:

--- End quote ---

Best to ask the developer....

and keep in mind as long as it is NOT a TURN KEY solution given or as an optional, even as for 200MHz and above...

that's a pitta, as do not like to search for ALL required parts for simple below 200MHz operation.  :palm:

So hidden unknown costs to deal with.

Just my 2 cents

drew23:
Hi.

I have the earlier PN2060A. It works like the revised one, besides having a lower noise floor.

The PN2060C is pretty straightforward to use. You need a couple of reference OCXOs, but these don't need to be very expensive, that is the point of the cross-correlation technique. The frequency of the reference oscillators depends on the DUT. I have a pair of 10 MHz and a pair of 100 MHz OCXOs. Filters and amplifiers are needed but they too are dictated by the DUT. Battery packs are used to reduce correlated noise.

I have a blog post from a couple of months ago on measuring in the sub-200 MHz range.

I am currently finishing a post on using it with inexpensive downconverters to extend the range into micro GHz. The instrument seems to work well.

Regards Drew VK4ZXI

https://vk4zxi.blogspot.com/2023/07/an-economical-way-to-measure-phase.html

https://vk4zxi.blogspot.com/2024/02/pn2060a-ghz-phase-noise-measurement.html

KE5FX:

--- Quote from: drew23 on February 22, 2024, 09:45:15 am ---From https://vk4zxi.blogspot.com/2024/02/pn2060a-ghz-phase-noise-measurement.html : "I don't know why AN3899 uses a single reference oscillator for the analyser as two would seem better for cross-correlation."

--- End quote ---

Since the downconverters are being used to measure a microwave source, the noise at each IF output is determined by the downconversion LO for that channel or the DUT, whichever is worse.  We can assume that the DUT will ultimately dominate, given that the LOs will tend to average out over time, and given that the microwave DUT is usually going to be much noisier than a decent 100 MHz reference OCXO. 

So when the IF is measured by the 53100A, the analyzer typically needs only a single reference OCXO, not a pair.

If you were using a pair of dividers, which allow the DUT noise to actually be improved by the downconversion setup, the story might be different.  E.g. in figure 5.  If dual references hadn't been used there, the measurement error at offsets >1 kHz would have been even higher.

Gerhard_dk4xp:
Hi, John,

As you know, I'm building a down converter to be used pairwise
to measure X-Band signals with my timepod. It is dual conversion,
1st IF is 900-928MHz with SAWs. It has 2 bands: nervous DC - 3 GHz and
3 GHz-15 or 20 GHz, depending on the mixers and synths  that
happen to be available $TODAY.

Expected DUTS are PLLs or DDS&mixers.
Downconverter REF will be a 100 MHz oven locked to 10 MHz house ref
with adf4002. In a prev. version, the 100->10 MHz divider contaminated
the 100 MHz with its counting spikes, therefore the ADF4002. I hope
the dirt will stay in the PLL chip.

In the pic:

top row from the left:
100 *3 * 3 MHz == 900 MHz 2ndLO, SPI-Interface, High band down
converter, Low noise LT3042 regulator with external power trans.

middle row:
 10-> 100 MHz PLL, 100 MHz xtal oven,  LMX2594/95 synthesizer

bottom row:
5-28 MHz output/2nd down mixer, PIN mux, low band down converter SW..3GHz


Timepod REF will be 1, 4, 8 or 16 MTI-260, sloooowly locked to GPS and
Wilkinsoned together since I'm #inputs-challenged with the timepod.
The guy who sold the Lucent GPS receivers on ebay some years ago
made me an offer for 20 redundancy oven units that I could not ignore :-)
Not removed with hammer and sickle after a life time on a Chinese
telecom tower but still shrink-wrapped.

Do you think I committed systematic errors or oversights?

Cheers, Gerhard,  DK4XP

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