EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: 3nigm4 on December 23, 2016, 09:00:17 am
-
Yesterday I had to tear down my oscilloscope due to smoke :wtf:
Fortunately it is only a broken power supply filter capacitor.
I taken the time to take some pictures for who is curious like me :-/O
Here are main pictures
-
And here some details, with a strange component I've never seen :-//
Edit: look at the board... there's few trim pots just for rapid calibration :-DD
-
And here some details, with a strange component I've never seen :-//
The WTF image? That is a delay line (http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Delay_line).
-
And here some details, with a strange component I've never seen :-//
If you mean this one:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/philips-pm-3215-oscilloscope-teardown-(vintage)/?action=dlattach;attach=280043)
It looks like the PDA multiplier that provides the 10KV CRT acceleration voltage.....that is the PDA lead coming out of the LH bottom edge, right?
Nah, cheeseit is probably right
-
That is a delay line (http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Delay_line).
I've never seen one before...
Thank you :-+
-
And here some details, with a strange component I've never seen :-//
The WTF image? That is a delay line (http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Delay_line).
Yes, it could well be a potted delay line.
-
.... and the inevitable Rifa metalized paper capacitor. :palm:
Just in case you're not already aware, they all do it in later life, the encapsulation crazes, moisture gets in and *poof*. Just replace it with an equivalent value X1 rated Polyproplyene film (MKP). No other fault to look for.
Nice teardown. Philips equipment of that era is really well made. Nice and accessible and repair friendly.
Yes it's the delay line. Do point out any other components that you don't recognise, we enjoy identifying stuff!
-
.... and the inevitable Rifa metalized paper capacitor. :palm:
Just in case you're not already aware, they all do it in later life, the encapsulation crazes, moisture gets in and *poof*. Just replace it with an equivalent value X1 rated Polyproplyene film (MKP). No other fault to look for.
Thanks for the info
Do point out any other components that you don't recognise, we enjoy identifying stuff!
Ummmm, seems that the "delay line" is the only unknown component at the moment :)
-
Don't know if you have have it but here is bad but usable service manual from Elektroyanya (http://elektrotanya.com/philips_pm3215_u_sm.pdf/download.html). Wait for the ..processing.. to change to Get manual, takes about half a minute or so. Delay line is shown on p. 57 and you'll find performance checks and adjustment from p. 31 and on.
I like these old PM scope repairs and teardowns, and will contribute with a PM3264 and a PM3540 logic scope some day soon. :)
-
Don't know if you have have it but here is bad but usable service manual from Elektroyanya (http://elektrotanya.com/philips_pm3215_u_sm.pdf/download.html). Wait for the ..processing.. to change to Get manual, takes about half a minute or so. Delay line is shown on p. 57 and you'll find performance checks and adjustment from p. 31 and on.
Thank you a lot for manual link, maybe usefull in the future.
I looked few times to a new digital oscilloscope, but even if this old scope's size is huge, it has always worked perfectly :-+
-
My PM3217 blew a RIFA yesterday as well. Total coincidence!
(http://i.imgur.com/0IpXzfA.jpg)
-
The OP has a fairly early one. Most have the delay line wrapped around the CRT. Also, the final Y amplifier is moved from the main PCB to a separate PCB mounted vertically next to the CRT.
Covering the mains inlet (where the dreaded RIFA lives) is an FR4 sheet with a rectangular cut-out. I always wondered what the cut-out was for, until I stumbled across a very early example (second image). Before they switched to RIFA, they used a green cylindrical type. I've not seen many of these, but I've never seen one fail.
-
The OP has a fairly early one. Most have the delay line wrapped around the CRT. Also, the final Y amplifier is moved from the main PCB to a separate PCB mounted vertically next to the CRT.
Covering the mains inlet (where the dreaded RIFA lives) is an FR4 sheet with a rectangular cut-out. I always wondered what the cut-out was for, until I stumbled across a very early example (second image). Before they switched to RIFA, they used a green cylindrical type. I've not seen many of these, but I've never seen one fail.
The green cylindrical one in my PM3218 failed. It was all sweaty, so I replaced it by a proper X2 cap.
-
My PM3217 blew a RIFA yesterday as well. Total coincidence!
They are built with an expiration date inside :-DD
The OP has a fairly early one. Most have the delay line wrapped around the CRT. Also, the final Y amplifier is moved from the main PCB to a separate PCB mounted vertically next to the CRT.
Covering the mains inlet (where the dreaded RIFA lives) is an FR4 sheet with a rectangular cut-out. I always wondered what the cut-out was for, until I stumbled across a very early example (second image). Before they switched to RIFA, they used a green cylindrical type. I've not seen many of these, but I've never seen one fail.
So, maybe they switched to RIFA to repair them later :popcorn:
-
To be fair it has lasted 35 years in my scope which is pretty good for a tiny box who's entire life's purpose is to absorb all the nasty things coming in off the mains.
The OP has a fairly early one. Most have the delay line wrapped around the CRT. Also, the final Y amplifier is moved from the main PCB to a separate PCB mounted vertically next to the CRT.
Covering the mains inlet (where the dreaded RIFA lives) is an FR4 sheet with a rectangular cut-out. I always wondered what the cut-out was for, until I stumbled across a very early example (second image). Before they switched to RIFA, they used a green cylindrical type. I've not seen many of these, but I've never seen one fail.
I assumed this was a convenient exhaust port to allow the smoke from the RIFA to access the power supply just to make your day even more miserable :)
Incidentally literally a couple of days ago I was saying that I hadn't been bitten by a RIFA X2 yet. Such is life!
-
The green cylindrical one in my PM3218 failed. It was all sweaty, so I replaced it by a proper X2 cap.
Had it actually failed? It sounds like encapsulation was going funny with age, but the innards might well have been fine. Of course, many old film capacitors had a waxy finish.
I do think you were right to change it, and I do the same :-+. Even if the original had the same type of self-healing dielectric as modern X2 capacitors, it'll be degraded by now (X2 caps lose value with age).
-
To be fair it has lasted 35 years in my scope which is pretty good for a tiny box who's entire life's purpose is to absorb all the nasty things coming in off the mains.
Yes, that's true, I'm joking ;D
I assumed this was a convenient exhaust port to allow the smoke from the RIFA to access the power supply just to make your day even more miserable :)
:-DD
-
Repaired with a little modification: replaced original power cord with an IEC socket
-
And here some details, with a strange component I've never seen :-//
Replace these Capacitors whenever you see them imediatly
I had "only" 3 of those Capacitors this year, I hope they are gone now.
btw: all about 20 years old.... Nothing destroyed but they smell ugly...
Michael