Products > Test Equipment
Picoscope- yay or nay?
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voltsandjolts:
IIRC Picoscope 7 is an electron app (or maybe it's picolog, or both, hmm)

https://www.electronjs.org/blog/apple-silicon

--- Quote ---What about Rosetta 2?

Rosetta 2 is Apple's latest iteration of their Rosetta technology, which allows you to run x64 Intel applications on their new arm64 Apple Silicon hardware. Although we believe that x64 Electron apps will run under Rosetta 2, there are some important things to note (and reasons why you should ship a native arm64 binary).

Your app's performance will be significantly degraded. Electron / V8 uses JIT compilation for JavaScript, and due to how Rosetta works, you will effectively be running JIT twice (once in V8 and once in Rosetta).

You lose the benefit of new technology in Apple Silicon, such as the increased memory page size.

Did we mention that the performance will be significantly degraded?

--- End quote ---

So, if PicoScope 7 is an x86 electron app on the mac m1/2, it might explain the slow menu behaviour David has...may be some of the crashes too  :P
David Aurora:

--- Quote from: voltsandjolts on March 05, 2023, 05:28:44 pm ---IIRC Picoscope 7 is an electron app (or maybe it's picolog, or both, hmm)

https://www.electronjs.org/blog/apple-silicon

--- Quote ---What about Rosetta 2?

Rosetta 2 is Apple's latest iteration of their Rosetta technology, which allows you to run x64 Intel applications on their new arm64 Apple Silicon hardware. Although we believe that x64 Electron apps will run under Rosetta 2, there are some important things to note (and reasons why you should ship a native arm64 binary).

Your app's performance will be significantly degraded. Electron / V8 uses JIT compilation for JavaScript, and due to how Rosetta works, you will effectively be running JIT twice (once in V8 and once in Rosetta).

You lose the benefit of new technology in Apple Silicon, such as the increased memory page size.

Did we mention that the performance will be significantly degraded?

--- End quote ---

So, if PicoScope 7 is an x86 electron app on the mac m1/2, it might explain the slow menu behaviour David has...may be some of the crashes too  :P

--- End quote ---

FFS  |O

If this is correct, that would mean they've been actively developing for outdated hardware for over 2 years  :-\

I know they're watching this thread (they mentioned having seen my video in an email, and it's unlisted on Youtube and only linked here), maybe they could chime in to confirm or deny that? And if it is indeed the case, I then wonder what the path to Apple silicon support is going to look like.
voltsandjolts:
FYI I'm no expert on PC software, so this post might be full of misleading crap, but here goes...

I've had a look at PicoLog and Picoscope 7 just now. PicoLog is an electron application.

I was wrong about Picoscope 7, it's actually a C# application, not an electron app.

On Windows it seems to be using the microsoft C# JIT compiler, as you would expect.

On mac it uses the mono JIT compiler but mono's supported platforms don't include mac arm, only mac x86-64.
So, on your m1 your likely running PicoScope 7 software on the mono compiler which is JIT'ing to x86-64 code which is running on the Rosetta thingy to translate to arm64.
Doesn't sound 'snappy' to me, and you're probably waiting for mono to add support for mac arm to see better performance. Not much Pico can do about it.


--- Quote from: David Aurora on March 05, 2023, 10:15:20 pm ---If this is correct, that would mean they've been actively developing for outdated hardware for over 2 years  :-\

--- End quote ---

To be fair, they're targeting the majority of mac users who will be using mac x86-64.
David Aurora:

--- Quote from: voltsandjolts on March 06, 2023, 10:34:03 am ---FYI I'm no expert on PC software, so this post might be full of misleading crap, but here goes...

I've had a look at PicoLog and Picoscope 7 just now. PicoLog is an electron application.

I was wrong about Picoscope 7, it's actually a C# application, not an electron app.

On Windows it seems to be using the microsoft C# JIT compiler, as you would expect.

On mac it uses the mono JIT compiler but mono's supported platforms don't include mac arm, only mac x86-64.
So, on your m1 your likely running PicoScope 7 software on the mono compiler which is JIT'ing to x86-64 code which is running on the Rosetta thingy to translate to arm64.
Doesn't sound 'snappy' to me, and you're probably waiting for mono to add support for mac arm to see better performance. Not much Pico can do about it.


--- Quote from: David Aurora on March 05, 2023, 10:15:20 pm ---If this is correct, that would mean they've been actively developing for outdated hardware for over 2 years  :-\

--- End quote ---

To be fair, they're targeting the majority of mac users who will be using mac x86-64.

--- End quote ---

Thanks for the crash course!

As for the target market, that still seems ass backwards to me. They could have drawn a line in the sand and gone "Use V6 wherever you want, but the new version is built for new hardware". What's the point of new software if it's built on the premise that you're only going to use it on old hardware? If not now, I wonder when they will make the leap to supporting modern processors
voltsandjolts:

--- Quote from: David Aurora on March 06, 2023, 12:50:48 pm ---If not now, I wonder when they will make the leap to supporting modern processors

--- End quote ---

Pico chose to hitch their wagon to mono for cross-platform, so it's really a question for mono.

If I were Pico, I think I would have went with Qt, for fast binaries running native on all supported platforms. Which sounds ideal for a 'scope app. I see Qt support mac arm. Anyway, I'm sure they had reasons, hiring C# programmers is probably easier than for C++/Qt.
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