EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: EEVblog on July 27, 2017, 08:04:18 am
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This video has been hanging around for ages now, but I'm finally making preps to do it.
I have 8 pocket meters:
Amprobe PM51A (Brymen BM22)
UNI-T UT10A
SANWA PM3
DER EE DE-19S
HIOKI 3244-60
ANENG AN8203
Digitech XB-866
KYORITSU 1018H
The main requirement is true shirt pocket size with case and fixed leads, no removable leads.
Setting up a comparison spreadsheet.
Planing to make the video in two parts. One is a quick overview and summary of each meter (1-2 min each?) and declaring the winner(s). The other will be all the in-depth testing.
Comment invited.
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I think the UT10A has been discontinued, replaced by the UT120A and UT120C. Old stock might still be available online for a while.
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I suggest a scoring system, and deciding on a 'winner' at the end.
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I think the UT10A has been discontinued, replaced by the UT120A and UT120C. Old stock might still be available online for a while.
I have the UT120A somewhere, but I havent used it for a long time. It just feels veey cheap and toy like. Apparat from safety concerns...
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I think the UT10A has been discontinued, replaced by the UT120A and UT120C. Old stock might still be available online for a while.
Woah, they claim ETL certified?
http://www.uni-trend.com/productsdetail_1950_1100_1100.html (http://www.uni-trend.com/productsdetail_1950_1100_1100.html)
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Also asses the kink protection on the fixed (and as cheap as they could find 'em) test leads, that is a real week spot on these meters.
If you do find a "winner" send it over to joeqsmith and see what he thinks of it. :P
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I think the UT10A has been discontinued, replaced by the UT120A and UT120C. Old stock might still be available online for a while.
Woah, they claim ETL certified?
http://www.uni-trend.com/productsdetail_1950_1100_1100.html (http://www.uni-trend.com/productsdetail_1950_1100_1100.html)
A and B models are definitely listed. Haven't seen the C model on the Intertek site yet. It is probably not listed because of its current ranges.
http://etlwhidirectory.etlsemko.com/WebClients/ITS/DLP/products.nsf/4c8700f3b75987a08525777700583333/1983b42d5046baa78625812900118263?OpenDocument (http://etlwhidirectory.etlsemko.com/WebClients/ITS/DLP/products.nsf/4c8700f3b75987a08525777700583333/1983b42d5046baa78625812900118263?OpenDocument)
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A and B model are definitely listed. Haven't seen the C model on the Intertek site yet. It is probably not listed because of its current range.
Are any other Uni-T meters ETL listed?
I'm stunned that they would do this on a cheap pocket meter :o
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The main requirement is true shirt pocket size with case and fixed leads, no removable leads.
Why would you make that a requirement? If removable leads make a meter more bulky, that should be scored as a negative. But otherwise, I think removabe (and hence replaceable) leads are a benefit. The fixed leads -- often without proper kink protection where they enter the meter -- are a reliability concern, and potentially a safety concern in my eyes.
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A and B model are definitely listed. Haven't seen the C model on the Intertek site yet. It is probably not listed because of its current range.
Are any other Uni-T meters ETL listed?
I'm stunned that they would do this on a cheap pocket meter :o
Plenty are. Especially the latest models:
UT 139/61/33/132/151/171/105/106/181
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The main requirement is true shirt pocket size with case and fixed leads, no removable leads.
Why would you make that a requirement? If removable leads make a meter more bulky, that should be scored as a negative. But otherwise, I think removabe (and hence replaceable) leads are a benefit. The fixed leads -- often without proper kink protection where they enter the meter -- are a reliability concern, and potentially a safety concern in my eyes.
For me test leads need to be non remouvable for a pocket sized Meter too. But if they arent of good qulity and there is no realy strain reliev, they break.
Thats another thing I dont like about the UT120A. I have to find it and take a closer look at it. I hope dindt threw it away in the meantime.
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The pocket meter I use is the Sanwa PS8A, always bring it with me.
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The Aneng looks like rebranded Victor VC921. The TrueRMS version is hackable witt extra buttons and UART output. I wonder if the Aneng version is as good.
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The main requirement is true shirt pocket size with case and fixed leads, no removable leads.
Why would you make that a requirement?
My shootout, my rules :P
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My shootout, my rules :P
Fair enough ;-)
Don't forget the "kink stress test" then -- maybe Sagan can help with that? ;)
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The main requirement is true shirt pocket size with case and fixed leads, no removable leads.
Why would you make that a requirement? If removable leads make a meter more bulky, that should be scored as a negative. But otherwise, I think removabe (and hence replaceable) leads are a benefit. The fixed leads -- often without proper kink protection where they enter the meter -- are a reliability concern, and potentially a safety concern in my eyes.
For me test leads need to be non remouvable for a pocket sized Meter too. But if they arent of good qulity and there is no realy strain reliev, they break.
Thats another thing I dont like about the UT120A. I have to find it and take a closer look at it. I hope dindt threw it away in the meantime.
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The UT120 has a rubber grommet for stress relief.
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I dont remember it beeing good
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For me test leads need to be non remouvable for a pocket sized Meter too.
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Why?
It is as arbitrary as saying it must be red with a translucent plastic clamshell style case, and no transistor tester. None of which affect its pocketability. But if it does then score it accordingly.
A pocket multimeter goes in a pocket and is a multimeter. That's it.
In my opinion a meter that is very small and fits nearly everywhere. I think thats rather hard to achiev with remouvable leads. Thats wy I want a pocket dmm with fixed leads.
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I dont remember it beeing good
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On closer inspection, it is more of a plastic retainer, molded tight on the leads to prevent stress on the PCB connections.
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In my opinion a meter that is very small and fits nearly everywhere. I think thats rather hard to achiev with remouvable leads. Thats wy I want a pocket dmm with fixed leads.
From the OED Arbitrary: Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
I'm still claiming fixed leads is arbitrary. And pocket multimeters don't need to fit nearly everywhere, just pockets.
Thats your opinion. I respect that.
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I'm still claiming fixed leads is arbitrary. And pocket multimeters don't need to fit nearly everywhere, just pockets.
Have you used a real pocket wallet type multimeter?
The entire meter plus the fixed leads fits in less volume than just the test leads of a removable lead "pocket" meter would take with all their tangled mess.
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Can you please include the Fluke 867B in the shootout? It fits in my cargo pants pocket (Belt and braces required). :-*
(http://www.industrialelectronics.biz/fluke/867bfeature.jpg)
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Can you please include the Fluke 867B in the shootout? It fits in my cargo pants pocket (Belt and braces required). :-*
Looks like the perfect form factor, but it has detachable leads -- sorry! :P
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No Uni-T UT120C?
Best multimeter case ever...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-multimeter-shootout/?action=dlattach;attach=335675;image)
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I guess the 4000 count Victor VICTOR VC921 matches the bill:
(http://i.imgur.com/KgvlID1.png)
There's a similar looking Aneng (and a few other brands), but the letters on the display seem a bit smaller (might be just the images).
It's nice that these $10 pocket meters are 4000 counts. Edit: The Aneng is already included.
Among the cheapest (pocket meters, not 4000 count) is also a DT variant,
(http://i.imgur.com/jt0MYsB.png)
$4-5 But I guess this one isn't interesting.
The cheapest would be this one, but detachable leads, so no go:
(http://i.imgur.com/8qR2YAw.png)
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I'm just glad to see the EEVBLOG doing old school stuff of interest to anyone interested in electronics.
Simple, useful and non-expensive meters, that's definitely interesting to see. :)
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In my opinion a meter that is very small and fits nearly everywhere. I think thats rather hard to achiev with remouvable leads. Thats wy I want a pocket dmm with fixed leads.
From the OED Arbitrary: Based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
I'm still claiming fixed leads is arbitrary. And pocket multimeters don't need to fit nearly everywhere, just pockets.
So? Dave's shootout, Dave's rules! :-//
FWIW, I'm with Dave. I want a "shirt pocket meter" to be completely enclosed in a case/wallet.
eg. This meter is tiny but I wouldn't want it in a shirt pocket, not with those leads flapping around.
(http://i.imgur.com/8qR2YAw.png)
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I'm sure shirt pocket multimeters have their place.
But how did we ever manage without multimeter shirts? ::)
Goes to show that there's a market for just about everything...
(https://image.spreadshirtmedia.com/image-server/v1/products/1002480674/views/1,width=800,height=800,appearanceId=231,modelId=121,version=1473664654/multimeter-men-s-premium-t-shirt.jpg)
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I agree about AN101.
(https://img1.banggood.com/thumb/view/oaupload/banggood/images/7F/1E/49890fdd-4ade-42e8-835b-c4080cc3a28a.jpg)
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I agree about AN101.
(https://img1.banggood.com/thumb/view/oaupload/banggood/images/7F/1E/49890fdd-4ade-42e8-835b-c4080cc3a28a.jpg)
That one would count as "shirt pocket" in my book because it's completely self-contained and would fit nicely with no metal spikes or bulges.
Still, Dave's shootout, Dave's rules. If he disallows it, then... :-//
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Dangerous piece of kit, with bare metal jack inserts. Someone should also tell Aneng there is no such thing as CAT II 500V.
Handle with gloves only!
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/162304505192-0-1/s-l1000.jpg)
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Dangerous piece of kit, with bare metal jack inserts. Someone should also tell Aneng there is no such thing as CAT II 500V.
Nobody here would be buying it for the CAT rating or for use on the local substation, so... :horse:
Handle with gloves only!
Good advice for ANY meter if you're going near mains electricity. Yes - even a Fluke 87V!
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I'd buy such a meter just to check some stuff I may find on a scrapyard or at a fleamarket/garage sale and battery powered projects.
So CAT ratings and the bare metal jacks, woud'nt be a problem for me.
Plus in my opinion such a "shirt pocket meter" isn't really the first choice for a beginner either, so I woudn't be as concernd them buying it, as with say the AN8008 or similar.
Edit: On such a small meter, I woudn't unplug the measurment leads anyway. Which makes having a meter with remouvable ones for me kinda pointless. Excpet the meter itself proofs to be good.
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Dangerous piece of kit, with bare metal jack inserts. Someone should also tell Aneng there is no such thing as CAT II 500V.
Nobody here would be buying it for the CAT rating or for use on the local substation, so... :horse:
Handle with gloves only!
Good advice for ANY meter if you're going near mains electricity. Yes - even a Fluke 87V!
This will be a video aimed at the general public. It would be unethical to promote a meter which disregards international safety norms. This one is a non starter, except perhaps as an example of how not to make a safe pocket meter. There are plenty pocket meters out there with proper CAT ratings for a shootout (Brymen, Uni-T, CEM, Amprobe, Hioki, Kyoritsu, etc...).
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Handle with gloves only!
Agree, the gloves make it 100% safe. There is no way you could get the test tips out of their protective enclosure while wearing those gloves! ;)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71PPow4p2UL._AC_UL160_SR160,160_.jpg)
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I think the UT10A has been discontinued, replaced by the UT120A and UT120C. Old stock might still be available online for a while.
Given this, I think that reviewing a UT10A would be a waste of time.
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That UT10A, CAT II 300V meter is auto-ranging and it can even measure frequency. It handled 3KV transients from my low energy generator with no problems at all. This was 1KV higher than what I damaged the pre-production 121GW at. It started to break down at 4KV. I made a few attempts open things up but had no luck with it. With such a low breakdown, I decided run the second generator with it and it did a little dance for me in appreciation.
What I remember most about that particular meter is it had THE WORST SELECTOR SWITCH I have EVER seen on a handheld. Smooth is not an adjective I would use to describe it.
https://youtu.be/QNRFTMk8MVI?t=2359
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That UT10A, CAT II 300V meter is auto-ranging and it can even measure frequency. It handled 3KV transients from my low energy generator with no problems at all. This was 1KV higher than what I damaged the pre-production 121GW at. It started to break down at 4KV. I made a few attempts open things up but had no luck with it. With such a low breakdown, I decided run the second generator with it and it did a little dance for me in appreciation.
What I remember most about that particular meter is it had THE WORST SELECTOR SWITCH I have EVER seen on a handheld. Smooth is not an adjective I would use to describe it.
https://youtu.be/QNRFTMk8MVI?t=2359
Did you have a chance to try the cheap analog MF-110A? Might be a competitor in that regard, albeit probably the only regard.
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I think the UT10A has been discontinued, replaced by the UT120A and UT120C. Old stock might still be available online for a while.
Given this, I think that reviewing a UT10A would be a waste of time.
Unfortunately I don't have a UT120B yet (on order), and I plan on shooting the video today.
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I guess the 4000 count Victor VICTOR VC921 matches the bill:
From a feature standpoint, this was my favorite of three I looked but that's not saying much. Attached picture showing after a strike. My Fluke 101 just laughs at this sort of transient!
I wonder what that HIOKI Dave has could handle....
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If people want other meters included then this will delay the shootout by weeks (it takes many weeks to get meters here from Chinese sellers).
I lose enthusiasm real quick, just saying...
BTW I should have a UT120B by Monday or Tuesday hopefully.
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I would say run with what you have at hand, if you added a couple more to the line up and ordered and waited for them to turn up from overseas there is always the risk that they could arrive faulty or not at all.
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Did you have a chance to try the cheap analog MF-110A? Might be a competitor in that regard, albeit probably the only regard.
Sorry but I have not. It appears not to have a fuse so it could be ran. Problem is getting a good baseline. Maybe buy 10 of them and pick the best one of the pile?
https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/140039902.html
If people want other meters included then this will delay the shootout by weeks (it takes many weeks to get meters here from Chinese sellers).
I lose enthusiasm real quick, just saying...
BTW I should have a UT120B by Monday or Tuesday hopefully.
:-DD :-DD Consider this my official, no I do not want you to increase the number of pocket meters in the shoot out. If you find a new way to destroy them in the end I'm certainly not going to give you a thumbs down over it!
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Might be worthwhile waiting for the UT120B, since you ordered it. Your call.
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I would say run with what you have at hand, if you added a couple more to the line up and ordered and waited for them to turn up from overseas there is always the risk that they could arrive faulty or not at all.
Well I'm shooting some footage today regardless. Likely won't finish today, so can probably wait for the UT120B and include that at the last minute.
But if people want the AN101 included then it will be some time.
The idea was I can always add more meters to the spreadsheet as they come to hand/market.
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If people want other meters included then this will delay the shootout by weeks (it takes many weeks to get meters here from Chinese sellers).
I lose enthusiasm real quick, just saying...
BTW I should have a UT120B by Monday or Tuesday hopefully.
It might be reasonable to have the UT in the video then, but it's your choice. As for other meters, yeah, it would take some time to arrive as everything else.
Did you have a chance to try the cheap analog MF-110A? Might be a competitor in that regard, albeit probably the only regard.
Sorry but I have not. It appears not to have a fuse so it could be ran. Problem is getting a good baseline. Maybe buy 10 of them and pick the best one of the pile?
https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/140039902.html
Just like the Fluke 101 then? :) Right, just like...
I'm sure it might have some uses though. I don't have a brand new intact one so it's hard to tell how the other units are, but there are many surprises inside (quality wise), even comparing to the similarly priced DT830 versions.
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A follow up or sequel never killed anybody, except the villians. 8)
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A follow up or sequel never killed anybody, except the villians. 8)
Absolutely, especially when enough meters stack up. I'm sure new ones will appear sooner or later, with more and more interesting features, or at least specs.
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There is the LAOA LA814103 that looks strangely like the UNI-T UT120C for double the price, but it has one huge feature apparently:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-multimeter-shootout/?action=dlattach;attach=335809)
It is the only multimeter that you can safely use underwater it seems.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/LAOA-Thin-Multimeter-Automatic-Range-Multifunction-Electronic-Electrician-Dedicated-Pocket-Digital-Multimeter-LA814103/32788308160.html? (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/LAOA-Thin-Multimeter-Automatic-Range-Multifunction-Electronic-Electrician-Dedicated-Pocket-Digital-Multimeter-LA814103/32788308160.html?)
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@ Dave , Ask Charles at TRIO test if he has one of these in stock.
Extech DM220. Might not be a true wallet style but should be easy to get hold of and add to the follow up testing.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-multimeter-shootout/?action=dlattach;attach=335811;image)
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It is the only multimeter that you can safely use underwater it seems.
This meter gets my vote for the most mechanically robust meter. I think these are ultrasonically welded together and the plastic is thick. Getting mine apart destroyed the case. But as tough as it was, it was not tougher than my lightweight transient generator...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvkshiiwJ_M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvkshiiwJ_M)
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Just tried to get a UT120C from a nearby seller but out of stock in two locations.
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Tougher than a Canadian winter... These were some funny videos. Of course no one ever actually tested them to see if there was any damage and no one looked at zapping them... Where was the It's tougher than a MOT? It's tougher then an MSD ignition? :-DD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSph-MYAIs0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSph-MYAIs0)
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It is the only multimeter that you can safely use underwater it seems.
This meter gets my vote for the most mechanically robust meter. I think these are ultrasonically welded together and the plastic is thick. Getting mine apart destroyed the case. But as tough as it was, it was not tougher than my lightweight transient generator...
Yes I took one through a mud obstacle course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAahT8_P-_E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAahT8_P-_E)
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Just tried to get a UT120C from a nearby seller but out of stock in two locations.
I'm pretty sure Supercheap Auto have them but they are double the price of Banggood so keep your receipt for the refund sequence, also Jaycar were clearing out some pocket meters at a discounted price but availability may also be limited.
Don't forget that some other people including forum members have already done video reviews of some models, Joe created some smoke in one and Lightages had a review thread on the UT-10A going back to 2011.
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<snipped> it was not tougher than my lightweight transient generator...
So, not a sledge hammer then. :)
My generators are more like the handle side of a plastic butter knife than a sledge. :-DD I was doing some actual testing a few years ago and the generator I was using was a couple of 5' or so 19" racks. A small one like this would be fun to have for the meters that crap out at low levels on mine. It may give people a better sense of what if than my little toy ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_9pCRVbS3U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_9pCRVbS3U)
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I'm pretty sure Supercheap Auto have them but they are double the price of Banggood
No stock in any local stocks despite the website saying they do. I just went on a wild goose chase.
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Oh well not to worry, leave the stress for the meters and not yourself, pretty sure nobody here is in a panic.
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This company may have it: http://www.tobins.com.au/DisplayItem.php?item=UT120C (http://www.tobins.com.au/DisplayItem.php?item=UT120C)
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I'm not sold yet on these pocket toys,
they still occupy valuable pocket space,
they can can fall out and smash
or the leads pop out, snag and rip a shirt pocket :-[
a Cat 1 Multimeter Watch is the way to go, with retractable leads
Waterproof
Volts, cap/diode/temp test,
Ohms/Buzzer/Silent Vibrator,
24/7 clock and user heart rate/pulse too
It's 2017, decades after Detective Dick Tracy,
and no one has thought of it? :o
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Might be worthwhile waiting for the UT120B, since you ordered it. Your call.
It's an interesting meter so if there's a tracking number and know for sure it will arrive in a couple of days, then... I'd wait.
But if people want the AN101 included then it will be some time.
A $5 meter is unlikely to win any prizes. Not worth holding back the shootout.
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It is the only multimeter that you can safely use underwater it seems.
This meter gets my vote for the most mechanically robust meter. I think these are ultrasonically welded together and the plastic is thick. Getting mine apart destroyed the case. But as tough as it was, it was not tougher than my lightweight transient generator...
Yes I took one through a mud obstacle course:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAahT8_P-_E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAahT8_P-_E)
Dave,
You are an unceasing source of entertainment! You do know how to have geek fun, what a blast!
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I suggest... deciding on a 'winner' at the end.
+1
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I'm not sold yet on these pocket toys,
they still occupy valuable pocket space,
they can can fall out and smash
Almost impossible to smash them, they simply don't have enough mass, and any case/wallet takes the impact nicely anyway.
I've dropped the wallet type countless times onto a concrete floor no problem. I carried one for years in a daily production environment.
or the leads pop out, snag and rip a shirt pocket :-[
That's what a wallet/case is for.
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That's what a wallet/case is for.
The UT120C has the best case. You'll know that as soon as you see it in real life. :popcorn:
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That's what a wallet/case is for.
The UT120C has the best case. You'll know that as soon as you see it in real life. :popcorn:
The case is indeed build well. It could just be a tiny bit larger, so the probes fit more easily. I remember, when I had the A Version in my backpack, that the leads didn't fit easy.
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It is the only multimeter that you can safely use underwater it seems.
This meter gets my vote for the most mechanically robust meter. I think these are ultrasonically welded together and the plastic is thick. Getting mine apart destroyed the case. But as tough as it was, it was not tougher than my lightweight transient generator...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvkshiiwJ_M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvkshiiwJ_M)
As they are welded, are they without fuses/current measurement?
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This meter gets my vote for the most mechanically robust meter. I think these are ultrasonically welded together and the plastic is thick. Getting mine apart destroyed the case. But as tough as it was, it was not tougher than my lightweight transient generator...
As they are welded, are they without fuses/current measurement?
No fuse, no current. A VERY limited resistance test. The Fluke 101 is feature rich by comparison and electrically, far more robust. But if your only criteria is a mechanically sound case design, this meter is worth having a look at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt3QG4pyqvw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt3QG4pyqvw)
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A and B model are definitely listed. Haven't seen the C model on the Intertek site yet. It is probably not listed because of its current range.
Are any other Uni-T meters ETL listed?
I'm stunned that they would do this on a cheap pocket meter :o
Plenty are. Especially the latest models:
UT 139/61/33/132/151/171/105/106/181
Some if not all of the Danaher Amprobe AM-4xx and 5xx series were even certified for EN 61326. Unlike many UNI-Ts I have looked at, including their high end 181A, the two Amprobe meters at least survived the grill starter..
The report may be found here:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjSxOfqm6_VAhWC44MKHah4BOIQFggrMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.amprobe.com%2Fcertifications%2FAM450EUR_EMC.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGR9Zg5_LXspp6K24hVgQk2jVbhOw (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjSxOfqm6_VAhWC44MKHah4BOIQFggrMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.amprobe.com%2Fcertifications%2FAM450EUR_EMC.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGR9Zg5_LXspp6K24hVgQk2jVbhOw)
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Hmm, bit of a spanner in the works perhaps, but I'm currently speaking to a manufacturer who has a new model pocket meter and it looks fantastic on paper, so looking to get one. But I don't believe it's currently available anywhere.
BTW, the Uni-T meter didn't turn up today.
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I actually recently got a Victor VC921 I impulse bought after never owning a real pocket size meter and I can really see the appeal of these things now. It's obviously not something you would use anywhere there's even a whiff of danger but it beats the holy hell out of those harbor freight freebies. I carry it in my bag with a pair of these, which cost a dollar less than the meter itself ;D
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-Slip-on-Crocodile-Alligator-Clips-for-2mm-Probe-Tip-Gold-Spring-Contacts-/171302315753 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-Slip-on-Crocodile-Alligator-Clips-for-2mm-Probe-Tip-Gold-Spring-Contacts-/171302315753)
Mine has the pad for the hold button so I'm probably going to hack that in at some point
EDIT: Also thought I'd mention that I thought putting the probes back in their caddy would be a pain in the ass but it's really not at all, the leads are kind of bent at the place where they fold to fit in perfectly and with like a few minutes practice it becomes automatic. It feels weird to say this about such a simple device but it's actually a lot of fun to use and I like it a lot
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I actually recently got a Victor VC921 I impulse bought after never owning a real pocket size meter and I can really see the appeal of these things now. It's obviously not something you would use anywhere there's even a whiff of danger but it beats the holy hell out of those harbor freight freebies. I carry it in my bag with a pair of these, which cost a dollar less than the meter itself ;D
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-Slip-on-Crocodile-Alligator-Clips-for-2mm-Probe-Tip-Gold-Spring-Contacts-/171302315753 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brymen-Slip-on-Crocodile-Alligator-Clips-for-2mm-Probe-Tip-Gold-Spring-Contacts-/171302315753)
Mine has the pad for the hold button so I'm probably going to hack that in at some point
EDIT: Also thought I'd mention that I thought putting the probes back in their caddy would be a pain in the ass but it's really not at all, the leads are kind of bent at the place where they fold to fit in perfectly and with like a few minutes practice it becomes automatic. It feels weird to say this about such a simple device but it's actually a lot of fun to use and I like it a lot
Does it fit an a pocket of a jacket or pants ? I read some reports that it is rather big, compared to other "shirt pocket dmms".
I mostly want one for shits and giggles, because I mostly will have my backpack(or any type of carrying possibility) with a fluke 101 with me anyway. But should it occur I dont have any, Id like to carry a meter anyway.
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I mostly will have my backpack(or any type of carrying possibility) with a fluke 101 with me anyway. But should it occur I dont have any, Id like to carry a meter anyway.
Away from home without a bag, but still carrying a multimeter -- now that's dedication to the hobby! (Or profession?)
But, now that you mention it, I recall those painful nights at the opera or afternoons in the football stadium where I was stranded without a meter... ;)
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Just realised I don't think I've ever seen Dave wear a shirt with a pocket before. I'd imagine quick pulling and replacing these meters in a pocket must be part of testing. Time for shopping spree? Hope there's montage footage set to some appropriate music :-DD
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Does it fit an a pocket of a jacket or pants ?
Yes, it's roughly front shirt pocket sized. Here it is next to some things for scale
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Realised I forgot Amprobe DM78C :palm:
I think it's an important contender.
RS have one, but $139+GST :o
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DG7VJBqVoAAGIqF.jpg)
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Realised I forgot Amprobe DM78C :palm:
I think it's an important contender.
RS have one, but $139+GST :o
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DG7VJBqVoAAGIqF.jpg)
Nice collection. Digitech design is kind of MP3/MP4 player styled?
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Pretty sure I won't include the Digitech QM1328 as it uses standard leads and has no case. If I include that then I guess I have to include the AN8008 and Fluke 101 etc
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Pretty sure I won't include the Digitech QM1328 as it uses standard leads and has no case. If I include that then I guess I have to include the AN8008 and Fluke 101 etc
I meant the yellow one, not sure about the number. Looks a bit like an MP3/MP4 player.
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@ Dave , Ask Charles at TRIO test if he has one of these in stock.
Extech DM220. Might not be a true wallet style but should be easy to get hold of and add to the follow up testing.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-multimeter-shootout/?action=dlattach;attach=335811;image)
Seems same thing as PeakTech 1020 A
http://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/digital---handmultimeter/produkt/p-1020.html (http://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/digital---handmultimeter/produkt/p-1020.html)
(https://www.net-elektronik.de/images/product_images/popup_images/617_0.jpg)
Not strictly shirt pocket format, but been very reliable little puppy. Drag it around for years now - zero problems. That huge mains indicator lights up from very far away and can save the day, or maybe even life.
Seems that version currently on sale has replaceable probes now (inline connectors on cable, not by sockets on DMM).
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Pretty sure I won't include the Digitech QM1328 as it uses standard leads and has no case. If I include that then I guess I have to include the AN8008 and Fluke 101 etc
I was going to ask about that one when I saw the photo.
I thought removable leads were verboten? ;)
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Pretty sure I won't include the Digitech QM1328 as it uses standard leads and has no case. If I include that then I guess I have to include the AN8008 and Fluke 101 etc
I was going to ask about that one when I saw the photo.
I thought removable leads were verboten? ;)
Then the Aneng would need to go too.
But Id give that one a pass, because its all in one case.
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You need to do a $50 and $100 shootout too. Been some time since you looked at that range.
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I was going to ask about that one when I saw the photo.
I thought removable leads were verboten? ;)
Then the Aneng would need to go too.
But Id give that one a pass, because its all in one case.
[/quote]
Correct.
The Digitech one uses standard 4mm plugs and large full size probes, so I therefore deem it not to be a proper "pocket" meter, it's a "compact" meter.
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Will start shooting this tomorrow.
The Amprobe is on order and I can include that at the last minute as it will likely take a couple of days to shoot this and compile the info.
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@EEVBlog: I am expecting some cheesy packet multimeter quick-draw intro to this video! Complete with pocket-protectors and dramatic close-ups! ;)
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Will start shooting this tomorrow.
The Amprobe is on order and I can include that at the last minute as it will likely take a couple of days to shoot this and compile the info.
Looking forward to the video already.
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Seems same thing as PeakTech 1020 A
http://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/digital---handmultimeter/produkt/p-1020.html (http://www.peaktech.de/productdetail/kategorie/digital---handmultimeter/produkt/p-1020.html)
(https://www.net-elektronik.de/images/product_images/popup_images/617_0.jpg)
Not strictly shirt pocket format, but been very reliable little puppy. Drag it around for years now - zero problems. That huge mains indicator lights up from very far away and can save the day, or maybe even life.
Seems that version currently on sale has replaceable probes now (inline connectors on cable, not by sockets on DMM).
I have one: nice tool, but:
a) the display cannot be easily read from below (when the meter is horizontal on the bench) because the display is too recessed from front panel
b) at switch-on it defaults to AC volts, a little annoying for me
It's a nice instrument, the Non Contat voltage tester works very well. It has no case, so you must use a rubberband to keep the cables from creating a mess in the toolbox.
I could never find a way to open it without breaking the case.. any suggeston?
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a) the display cannot be easily read from below (when the meter is horizontal on the bench) because the display is too recessed from front panel
b) at switch-on it defaults to AC volts, a little annoying for me
It's a nice instrument, the Non Contat voltage tester works very well. It has no case, so you must use a rubberband to keep the cables from creating a mess in the toolbox.
I could never find a way to open it without breaking the case.. any suggeston?
No suggestion about opening, but heres one about using on bench:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2121969 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2121969)
Think AC is safety measure. I use it mostly to solve "general household problems" that deal mostly with AC. Or stuff in dirty environment - construction site, checking fishing boat battery etc. Not IP rated but clearly built with harsh use in mind. If not see it in this contest, then maybe in next - "compact DMMs in enterntainingly dirty conditions" :P Perhaps one can first open zombies heads with U1282A and then poke around with rugged compact :popcorn:
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OPINION NEEDED:
I just got this Sanwa PM300 pocket meter:
http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH61491811587.pdf (http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH61491811587.pdf)
But I was looking at potentially reselling this one (initially without EEVblog branding), and have a quote and permission to resell it.
Now, that potentially puts me into a vested interest position if I include this in the shootout.
What do people think, will people trust my openness in a shootout in which I sell one of the meters? (of course I'll be upfront about it)
Although I haven't tested it yet, it might well win the shootout in terms of "cost is no object" metric. The range switch is to die for, CAT IV rated, solid case, gorgeous TPU case (but very thick), gold probes, good strain relief, and it kills all the others in build quality and look and feel.
But it is by far the most expensive meter, I'd have to retail for probably US$75. So it wouldn't win any bang-per-buck metric.
Opinions please...
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I say that you should include it. Nobody is immune to bias but if you state it then people can take your opinion with a grain of salt. You might also want to state that the Amprobe PM51A is made by Brymen and because you sell the BM235 that your opinion might be biased with it too.
I believe you are an honest person and would not lie to people to make a buck. That does not mean you could lie to yourself and therefore pass that lie on to others. Just be open and stop worrying about the people who might be suspicious of anything you say.
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OPINION NEEDED:
I just got this Sanwa PM300 pocket meter:
http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH61491811587.pdf (http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH61491811587.pdf)
True RMS and 6000 count. I wonder what the chipset is.
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Regards the Sanwa PM300 yes please go for it.
I noticed Kyoritsu / KEW have now have an update to the 1018, the 1019R which is True RMS but lacks diode test so is a non starter for me, the PM300 has it which looks promising.
http://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00023/ (http://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00023/)
Is there any chance you can get hold of one of the KEW mini clamp pocket meters to throw in the mix?
http://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00923/ (http://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00923/)
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Definitely include the Sanwa. There is no problem reporting the facts. Subjective views, such as "I just love this meter" are fine as long as we know you have an interest in the meter. Anyway, it is your site - nothing wrong with promoting items that help pay for the site.
If you over-promote the Sanwa meter, you know you will spark off a deluge of a few hundred posts arguing the matter. Hard to be more open then that.
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If you over-promote the Sanwa meter, you know you will spark off a deluge of a few hundred posts arguing the matter.
That happens if I cough the wrong way ;D
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OPINION NEEDED:
I just got this Sanwa PM300 pocket meter:
http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH61491811587.pdf (http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH61491811587.pdf)
But I was looking at potentially reselling this one (initially without EEVblog branding), and have a quote and permission to resell it.
Now, that potentially puts me into a vested interest position if I include this in the shootout.
What do people think, will people trust my openness in a shootout in which I sell one of the meters? (of course I'll be upfront about it)
Although I haven't tested it yet, it might well win the shootout in terms of "cost is no object" metric. The range switch is to die for, CAT IV rated, solid case, gorgeous TPU case (but very thick), gold probes, good strain relief, and it kills all the others in build quality and look and feel.
But it is by far the most expensive meter, I'd have to retail for probably US$75. So it wouldn't win any bang-per-buck metric.
Opinions please...
I think you should include it with that acknowledgment. It might also explain why you want to resell the meter itself.
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Nothing wrong with having categories of winners:
Under $20
Over $50
etc.
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Nothing wrong with having categories of winners:
Under $20
Over $50
etc.
Agreed
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Review it, curious to see what might make it worth 2-3x more then the average cheap pocket meters.
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OPINION NEEDED:
I just got this Sanwa PM300 pocket meter:
http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH61491811587.pdf (http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH61491811587.pdf)
True RMS and 6000 count. I wonder what the chipset is.
HY12P66
Just opened it at home and it's very nice!
GDT + PTC protection for the CAT IV rating.
Selectable auto power off and beep off.
(http://i.imgur.com/xDFEEAS.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/qsbQaOC.jpg)
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Just curious, what is this element?
(http://i.imgur.com/UtwbHwB.png)
Excuse the lack of knowledge. :)
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Could be a gas discharge element
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Yes it is the GDT the GAP on the silkscreen is typically Japanese terminology for them.
If you follow the trace on the underside of the PCB it joins the common terminal to the PTC connected to the + terminal
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Have we got one of these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Multimeter-Pocket-Mini-Auto-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter-Tester-Portable-/222504694302?var=&hash=item33ce50321e:m:m7rXOuLilgpE3T5tE8ivYow (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Multimeter-Pocket-Mini-Auto-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter-Tester-Portable-/222504694302?var=&hash=item33ce50321e:m:m7rXOuLilgpE3T5tE8ivYow)
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Looks more like a Fluke 101. So it doesnt fit in the scheme of a shirt dmm. Too big.
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Have we got one of these?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Multimeter-Pocket-Mini-Auto-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter-Tester-Portable-/222504694302?var=&hash=item33ce50321e:m:m7rXOuLilgpE3T5tE8ivYow (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Multimeter-Pocket-Mini-Auto-Ranging-Digital-Multimeter-Tester-Portable-/222504694302?var=&hash=item33ce50321e:m:m7rXOuLilgpE3T5tE8ivYow)
That's a horribly photoshopped image, I'm pretty sure it's much smaller. The ZT102 is the original OEM's name for the AN8002, which has been discussed here ad infinitum on other threads, together with its sibling models.
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Looks like the same person also owns one of these:
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Looks like the same person also owns one of these:
Yeah, with all the meters that guy had for his shirt pocket, he can only AFFORD, one SHIRT!
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That's a horribly photoshopped image, I'm pretty sure it's much smaller.
Nah, I'm sure that photo is just showing a person with very small hands and a small shirt pocket. ::)
(Who is living in a world of even illumination and no shadows...)
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Looks like the same person also owns one of these:
Yeah, with all the meters that guy had for his shirt pocket, he can only AFFORD, one SHIRT!
The Zotek meter and the shirt colors match perfectly,
I'm betting there's a lady involved in the photo shoot :-*
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That Sanwa meter looks great and I'd like to see it in the review (perhaps with a "full disclosure" statement). If you'll definitely be selling unbranded ones I will probably get in line to buy one.
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I just got this Sanwa PM300 pocket meter:
But I was looking at potentially reselling this one (initially without EEVblog branding), and have a quote and permission to resell it.
Now, that potentially puts me into a vested interest position if I include this in the shootout.
What do people think, will people trust my openness in a shootout in which I sell one of the meters? (of course I'll be upfront about it)
I certainly would like to know how it performs, with the appropriate disclaimers/disclosures.
Of course, if it wins hands down due to all the extra cost put into it, then also identifying the second best, best bang-for-the-buck, or similar, would be beneficial in general as well as for those who may dismiss the Sanwa solely due to the commercial ties.
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Are Sanwa anything like what they used to be? I seem to remember them having a very good reputation for analog multimeters back in the day, but I was a kid back then and haven't heard anything since (haven't looked though). Do they still do their designs in house or is it just something by a Chinese firm with a famous name on it? Just about every product I have that's actually designed and made in Japan has really impressed me, from my Toyota to the Sony PVM on my desk. Never had a Japanese piece of electronic test equipment though, for whatever reason they don't really seem to have penetrated that market in the west at the lower end consumer/hobbyist levels, apart from Hakko of course, but soldering irons are kind of a different beast.
EDIT: Some googling brought me to this model which looks like a higher end version of that PM300: http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH61491811555.pdf (http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH61491811555.pdf)
EDIT2: Disregard that, it's actually a larger meter with permanently attached leads, not pocket size. Why you would do that on a full size device is mystifying.
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Could be a gas discharge element
Yes, it's a GDT, Gas Discharge Tube. Common to label them "GAP", as in a spark gap because that's basically what it is.
Basically the equivalent to a MOV. Companies like Gossen prefer them over MOV's.
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That Sanwa meter looks great and I'd like to see it in the review (perhaps with a "full disclosure" statement). If you'll definitely be selling unbranded ones I will probably get in line to buy one.
Pretty sure I will, because you simply can't buy it anywhere except Japan.
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Are Sanwa anything like what they used to be? I seem to remember them having a very good reputation for analog multimeters back in the day, but I was a kid back then and haven't heard anything since (haven't looked though). Do they still do their designs in house or is it just something by a Chinese firm with a famous name on it? Just about every product I have that's actually designed and made in Japan has really impressed me, from my Toyota to the Sony PVM on my desk. Never had a Japanese piece of electronic test equipment though, for whatever reason they don't really seem to have penetrated that market in the west at the lower end consumer/hobbyist levels, apart from Hakko of course, but soldering irons are kind of a different beast.
Curiously this one is made in China!
But I'm sure it's 100% designed and certified by Sanwa.
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OPINION NEEDED:
Opinions please...
Definitely include it.. I have no problem with that.. You stated it openly and I don't think you will be unfair...
As far as fanboy bias goes, neither you or I are responsible for that :-DD !
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Gents, would two of these pocket meters fit/cram into a shirt pocket ?
Assuming a real shirt pocket, not todays straightjacket 'fitted' rag fashions :--
Would be nice to cart around a shirt pocket sized lab, if one of the two meters can do 'current' :clap:
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I guess the Sanwa PM33a "Hybrid pocket size DMM" might be a bit too big, despite the name ??
(http://www.sanwa-meter.co.jp/prg_data/goods/img/PH21338255983.jpg)
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What about the Kew mate 2000 series? http://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00922/ (http://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00922/)
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What about the Kew mate 2000 series? http://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00922/ (http://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00922/)
Haha, I suggested the true RMS version of this on the previous page!
Strangely enough the true RMS version is cheaper than the non RMS version, in Australia anyway.
Dave I hope you give consideration to the potential longevity of the test leads in your review. I used to know a few techs with the Kew mate mini clamps and they all used to break the leads just out of the strain relief, from being wound and unwound all the time.
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What about the Kew mate 2000 series? http://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00922/ (http://www.kew-ltd.co.jp/en/products/detail/00922/)
Stop the presses...
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-multimeter-shootout/?action=dlattach;attach=341986;image)
We have a winner in the "no holds barred" category! :popcorn:
(it even has a bar graph from the looks of that)
Edit: $200+ USD (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/KYORITSU-2012R-AC-DC-MULTIMETER-with_60281425287.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017121.12.2f898c12T2uDXF). Ouch!
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I've just ordered stock of the Sanwa PM300 and will be selling it.
Not because it's the best pocket meter (that's a "depends" thing), but because I really like it, it's premium quality, and not available practically anywhere else. Exactly the type of product I'm looking to resell.
Sanwa branded to start with, but the internal white border around the screen with the Sanwa name can just be removed if you open it up, so might get some custom window frame made to go with it.
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I've just ordered stock of the Sanwa PM300 and will be selling it.
Not because it's the best pocket meter (that's a "depends" thing), but because I really like it, it's premium quality, and not available practically anywhere else. Exactly the type of product I'm looking to resell.
Sanwa branded to start with, but the internal white border around the screen with the Sanwa name can just be removed if you open it up, so might get some custom window frame made to go with it.
Rad, can you mention a (rough) price yet?
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I don't know, Dave... Suddenly this whole pocket meter shootout looks like just a nicely orchestrated marketing gig to get attention for your new Sanwa meter.
Thank you for being open about your commercial interest; that helps to keep things above-board. But personally I'm losing interest in the shootout video under these circumstances.
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He has been talking about doing this pocket multimeter shootout for around three years that I know of so I seriously doubt that it is just a ploy to flog stuff.
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Honestly I like the idea of getting what by any measure looks like a cool exclusive product and I'm glad it's going to be sold free of EEVBlog branding (nothing personal, just don't like "custom" stuff, from anybody). However using what's supposed to be an objective review video as a vehicle for announcing it does put me off a bit. Ideally I would like to see the shootout without it and then a separate video all about the Sanwa. It's probably not even in the same price/quality bracket as all those ultra budget pocket meters anyway. This is probably not going to happen.
If I'm going to be 100% honest I feel like a lot of people on youtube (by no means just you, and by no means are you anywhere near the worst) are really starting to blur the line between what's "real" and what's product placement in the past year or so. I feel like there's some "agreement" between EEVBlog and Keysight for example, but since there's no disclosure I can't really confirm it and feel like I might just need to pull out a tinfoil hat or something. Like a brand new low end Keysight scope gets released, it's sitting in your lab, gets like 4 or 5 videos devoted to it, and there's no real hard hitting talk about how the thing actually stacks up compared to other budget models or what it's like to use? The EEVBlog I remember would have been all over that, with an in depth test of every performance metric and a value for money comparison with other choices. If I'm completely wrong, sorry for misinterpreting things. I genuinely wanted to see how that scope measured up because I'm in the market for a new one around that price, so I kinda picked up on how nobody with a well known channel is actually reviewing the thing, just kind of advertising it's existence.
The thing is, you gotta eat and most of us understand that. Just try to understand how it looks from this end, and that people actually appreciate it when something is clearly stated as product placement. We get it, any channel of a certain production value needs sponsorship. The eyeballs are still looking at it. When stuff starts to feel too much like a trick, like you have to spend too much mental energy trying to read between the lines to enjoy it, the eyeballs go looking for something more real, and this being the internet there is always something more real. The whole reason for the success of youtube and the slow death of TV is that on the former you can actually find content that's not slick advertising designed to funnel money from your pockets into the pockets of people with more money than you. Don't become TV.
E: Also, because this seems rant-y I want to mention that I really do appreciate what you and others like you do and absolutely think you should get paid the big bucks to do it. I just wish there was some way that didn't involve blurring the line between the content I genuinely love and an advertisement, but sadly that's probably where the biggest bucks are :(
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@dos: Thank you for taking the time and wording your concerns carefully. My thoughts exactly, but you did a better job explaining them than I did two posts above! -- I like your proposal to exclude the Sanwa from the shootout review, and do a separate video on it a bit later.
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He has been talking about doing this pocket multimeter shootout for around three years that I know of so I seriously doubt that it is just a ploy to flog stuff.
Yes, go check the various threads on this forum including lists of meters and probably a photo or two of the meters I've had for a long time now. And I got serious about this again recently before even finding this PM300 meter. All verifiable on twitter & this forum.
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I've just ordered stock of the Sanwa PM300 and will be selling it.
Not because it's the best pocket meter (that's a "depends" thing), but because I really like it, it's premium quality, and not available practically anywhere else. Exactly the type of product I'm looking to resell.
Sanwa branded to start with, but the internal white border around the screen with the Sanwa name can just be removed if you open it up, so might get some custom window frame made to go with it.
Rad, can you mention a (rough) price yet?
Not cheap, probably US$75
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I still would like to see the meter in the shootout, but more for a comparison, like the Fluke 87V was used in the other dmm shootouts.
Id be fine fine also with including it in the shootout competition, as long its clearly stated that there are/could be a conflict of interest. Not mentioning that would be really misleading.
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I still would like to see the meter in the shootout, but more for a comparison, like the Fluke 87V was used in the other dmm shootouts.
That sounds like a good compromise to me as well. Making a $75 pocket meter the winner does nothing to help people who couldn't afford to spend that on a bench meter, which is probably most of the people genuinely interested in an in depth comparison of very cheap meters. As a standard against which the ones affordable to the common man are held though, it both removes the conflict and makes the Sanwa look in a class of it's own- good for everyone.
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Honestly I like the idea of getting what by any measure looks like a cool exclusive product and I'm glad it's going to be sold free of EEVBlog branding (nothing personal, just don't like "custom" stuff, from anybody). However using what's supposed to be an objective review video as a vehicle for announcing it does put me off a bit. Ideally I would like to see the shootout without it and then a separate video all about the Sanwa. It's probably not even in the same price/quality bracket as all those ultra budget pocket meters anyway. This is probably not going to happen.
There are several other meters in the shootout (including another Sanwa) that are US$50+, so not far from the Sanwa PM300, but it is the most expensive. Several are under $10 delivered
If I'm going to be 100% honest I feel like a lot of people on youtube (by no means just you, and by no means are you anywhere near the worst) are really starting to blur the line between what's "real" and what's product placement in the past year or so.
I do zero product placement.
If it appears like I am, then, well, nothing I can do about that except tell you that you are wrong and try to explain it.
I feel like there's some "agreement" between EEVBlog and Keysight for example, but since there's no disclosure I can't really confirm it and feel like I might just need to pull out a tinfoil hat or something.
There is zero agreement between Keysight and myself, or any other company for that matter.
They are probably not all that happy that I haven't gotten around to doing a review of it, and that I did a hacking video of it.
Do you seriously think a huge company like Keysight wants me doing a hacking video? Would that have been part of the "agreement" too? No frigg'n way.
Where was the agreement when I did videos exposing their meter for having soldering quality issues, firmware issues, and EMC issues have have forced recalls and redesigns? Half of their company probably hates me for exposing that stuff. And that's what I do to companies that give me stuff for free.
I don't do agreements, never have, never will, it's my way or the highway, I'm not afraid to burn bridges.
The only agreement I have ever signed are NDA's for various product launches.
Like a brand new low end Keysight scope gets released, it's sitting in your lab, gets like 4 or 5 videos devoted to it, and there's no real hard hitting talk about how the thing actually stacks up compared to other budget models or what it's like to use?
Err, surely any "agreement" would have included me doing review videos, yeah?
The EEVBlog I remember would have been all over that, with an in depth test of every performance metric and a value for money comparison with other choices.
You haven't seen such a shotout video because it's a metric shit ton of work. There is probably no greater time consuming video possible than an oscilloscope review shootout.
I work on enthusiasm, and it's really hard to build up the enthusiasm to do such videos.
If I'm completely wrong, sorry for misinterpreting things.
Yes, you are completely wrong, and demonstrably so.
I genuinely wanted to see how that scope measured up because I'm in the market for a new one around that price, so I kinda picked up on how nobody with a well known channel is actually reviewing the thing, just kind of advertising it's existence.
Guess why!
Hint, you only have to scroll back up.
The thing is, you gotta eat and most of us understand that. Just try to understand how it looks from this end, and that people actually appreciate it when something is clearly stated as product placement.
I'll repeat, I do zero product placement.
We get it, any channel of a certain production value needs sponsorship.
I don't do sponsorship either.
I have been offered many thousands of dollars per video for reviews of all kinds of thing and other sponsored content. Heck, even $5k for simply for a simple embedded pre-roll ad an link at the start of a video. And I have turned down every single one of these offers. I've told companies to literally piss off when they have asked to see video before I release them, or try and dictate terms to me, and some of them have not returned, and I couldn't give a rats arse about that. I have built up reputation among manufacturers as hard arse who doesn't play ball, a lot of them hate me.
These terms are detailed publicly on my website BTW.
The eyeballs are still looking at it. When stuff starts to feel too much like a trick, like you have to spend too much mental energy trying to read between the lines to enjoy it, the eyeballs go looking for something more real, and this being the internet there is always something more real. The whole reason for the success of youtube and the slow death of TV is that on the former you can actually find content that's not slick advertising designed to funnel money from your pockets into the pockets of people with more money than you. Don't become TV.
I couldn't if I tried, I'm just to frigg'n lazy and too poor at marketing.
Problem is I will by coincidence have a lot of stuff coming up that might appear like this.
I want to do a teardown of my HVP70 I'm selling (already sold most of my first shipment without mentioning it in a video once).
I have to crowd fund my new uRuler like I've been promising for years.
I've got my uSleeve ESD part storage pouches I've had sitting inboxes for over a year because I've been too lazy to do the simple crowd funder for it.
I've got the big 121GW crowd funder in a month or two.
And this new Sanwa PM300 will have to slip in there too.
And I won't lie, a good lot of my income now comes from product sales, but I hardly push any of it, probably greatly to my detriment.
This is necessary for my survival if the ad revenue dries up. The alternative would be for me to take those multi-thousand dollar video sponsorship deals if it came to that.
I could plug the shit out of my store and products in every video, and in every video description, but I don't. I have an opt-in email list for product specials etc, and very occasionally post on the forum.
E: Also, because this seems rant-y I want to mention that I really do appreciate what you and others like you do and absolutely think you should get paid the big bucks to do it. I just wish there was some way that didn't involve blurring the line between the content I genuinely love and an advertisement, but sadly that's probably where the biggest bucks are :(
I get paid pretty much exactly the same regardless of what videos I do. It's not like using my BM235 meter in a video results in a sudden spike in sales, I couldn't even see that blip in the sales data if I tried.
Guess how many people bought my HVP70 probe when I mentioned it and the discount code in my recent video (first time I've even done that BTW) - two.
And I'll add that having the products is also a way for me to pay the wages of David2 who is now a full time employee at the EEVblog, being paid real engineering wages (I had to outbid another company to get him). A good lot of his job is to design products so that we can eventually sell them to pay for his wages which also effectively (and hopefully) gets me a a full time employee to help out on various video and other things, not to mention producing spin-off videos of these eventual designs, along with him doing some of his own tutorial videos.
In short I'm trying to boot-strap a real business here, one that can generate enough cash flow so that it continues to produce content, while at the same time growing the human resources available to keep it all going and expand where possible.
The EEVblog is now two commercial offices, two full time employees, and a part time logisitics person.
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I still would like to see the meter in the shootout, but more for a comparison, like the Fluke 87V was used in the other dmm shootouts.
That sounds like a good compromise to me as well. Making a $75 pocket meter the winner does nothing to help people who couldn't afford to spend that on a bench meter, which is probably most of the people genuinely interested in an in depth comparison of very cheap meters. As a standard against which the ones affordable to the common man are held though, it both removes the conflict and makes the Sanwa look in a class of it's own- good for everyone.
Good idea, but if it's in the shootout then it's gotta be in the shootout. Some of the other meters are the same price as the PM300 depending upon where you buy it.
Having had an initial play with these meters, I think it will be impossible to have one winner.
I'm not even a fan of the PM300's form factor for a pocket meter, it's too thick for a good shirt pocket meter IMO, I much prefer the thin soft wallet type having carried one of those for years in a production environment.
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There are several other meters in the shootout (including another Sanwa) that are US$50+, so not far from the Sanwa PM300, but it is the most expensive. Several are under $10 delivered
I didn't know this, and now it seems much more reasonable to have it in the shootout.
There is zero agreement between Keysight and myself, or any other company for that matter.
They are probably not all that happy that I haven't gotten around to doing a review of it, and that I did a hacking video of it.
Do you seriously think a huge company like Keysight wants me doing a hacking video? Would that have been part of the "agreement" too? No frigg'n way.
For what it's worth I believe you. But devil's advocate from here on out: Hackability has sold a shitload of low end hobbyist scopes. Keysight is trying to break into the low end hobbyist scope market: "ditch the toys". They have studied Rigol carefully. I think they would rather see some hype generating hacking than an honest review, since an honest review would have to mention the fact that you get more (bandwidth, memory depth, update rate, decoding, features, etc) for the same price or less with the so called toys (apart from a better level of quality design and construction, which was nicely demonstrated in the teardown. And yes this is very important and one of the reasons I'm considering the Keysight). You can see how this looks from here?
Where was the agreement when I did videos exposing their meter for having soldering quality issues, firmware issues, and EMC issues have have forced recalls and redesigns? Half of their company probably hates me for exposing that stuff. And that's what I do to companies that give me stuff for free.
I don't do agreements, never have, never will, it's my way or the highway, I'm not afraid to burn bridges.
The only agreement I have ever signed are NDA's for various product launches.
That's really good and I am glad there are people with your sense of ethics making content at your level.
Err, surely any "agreement" would have included me doing review videos, yeah?
Again, from looking at the way things were with lots of different big channels it seemed to me like they didn't want people to really review on purpose, because the scope would not come out looking so great against the "toys". In my mind "agreement" meant more like "make people aware of it, but don't say anything bad or get too nitty-gritty about it's performance. our marketing campaign is aggressively taunting our competitors but our product looks a bit limp against them once you compare the raw data and prices."
You haven't seen such a shotout video because it's a metric shit ton of work. There is probably no greater time consuming video possible than an oscilloscope review shootout.
I work on enthusiasm, and it's really hard to build up the enthusiasm to do such videos.
I didn't mean a full on shootout where you pull every scope on the bench, just a standard review of that scope's functionality in particular with verbal mention of how it compares to to other scopes in it's range bang for buck, like you and others have done hundreds of times with hundreds of far less significant scopes. Again I believe you but you can see how it looks when suddenly it's super hard to do one of the things your channel is most famous for, serious critical analysis of affordable test equipment. You can be merciless, and it's part of why I like your channel a lot. I suspect there may be a few really obvious things to be merciless about this scope with so it struck me as odd that not a single even vaguely impolite thing was said about it across like 4 videos. is it really that great?
I genuinely wanted to see how that scope measured up because I'm in the market for a new one around that price, so I kinda picked up on how nobody with a well known channel is actually reviewing the thing, just kind of advertising it's existence.
Guess why!
Hint, you only have to scroll back up.
But most of these people have done plenty of in depth reviews of simple budget beginner scopes. I just thought that with such a big name coming in and literally giving them away people would be racing each other to get the full in depth review out, because it's kind of a unique thing. It's not just another InsRiSigWonTek. In fact it's marketing directly calls those guys out, great drama: "They talk a big game but can goliath really outperform david??" shit it's like must see nerd youtube.
I'm just explaining my thinking here and showing you that I did consider these things, not trying to refute what you're saying. Think of it as just the paranoid perspective I guess.
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He has been talking about doing this pocket multimeter shootout for around three years that I know of so I seriously doubt that it is just a ploy to flog stuff.
Yes, go check the various threads on this forum including lists of meters and probably a photo or two of the meters I've had for a long time now. And I got serious about this again recently before even finding this PM300 meter. All verifiable on twitter & this forum.
All good; I do not claim that you have cunningly planned it this way. But the coinciding timing is what it is now, and it does send an awkward message.
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For what it's worth I believe you. But devil's advocate from here on out: Hackability has sold a shitload of low end hobbyist scopes. Keysight is trying to break into the low end hobbyist scope market: "ditch the toys". They have studied Rigol carefully. I think they would rather see some hype generating hacking than an honest review, since an honest review would have to mention the fact that you get more (bandwidth, memory depth, update rate, decoding, features, etc) for the same price or less with the so called toys (apart from a better level of quality design and construction, which was nicely demonstrated in the teardown. And yes this is very important and one of the reasons I'm considering the Keysight). You can see how this looks from here?
I can't stop the conspiracy theories.
BTW, I said these negative things about the Keysight scope countless times on here if you cared to look. Hardly keeping to any "agreement" to not mention them. Once again, all verifiable and on the record if you cared to go check.
Err, surely any "agreement" would have included me doing review videos, yeah?
Again, from looking at the way things were with lots of different big channels it seemed to me like they didn't want people to really review on purpose, because the scope would not come out looking so great against the "toys". In my mind "agreement" meant more like "make people aware of it, but don't say anything bad or get too nitty-gritty about it's performance. our marketing campaign is aggressively taunting our competitors but our product looks a bit limp against them once you compare the raw data and prices."
Now you're just jumping the shark.
I can assure you, neither me, (and I'm pretty darn sure I can speak for others) has any sort of agreement with the manufactures to do anything. The "deal" is they give us the scope and they hope for the best.
I didn't mean a full on shootout where you pull every scope on the bench, just a standard review of that scope's functionality in particular with verbal mention of how it compares to to other scopes in it's range bang for buck, like you and others have done hundreds of times with hundreds of far less significant scopes. Again I believe you but you can see how it looks when suddenly it's super hard to do one of the things your channel is most famous for, serious critical analysis of affordable test equipment. You can be merciless, and it's part of why I like your channel a lot. I suspect there may be a few really obvious things to be merciless about this scope with so it struck me as odd that not a single even vaguely impolite thing was said about it across like 4 videos. is it really that great?
Because there weren't reviews :palm:
BTW, I did a video showing some bugs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9dWzzfgo0Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9dWzzfgo0Y)
BTW, just reviews on their own are also a shit ton of work, which is why, if you actually paid attention, I have a whole bunch of scopes I have down teardowns on and not reviews (probably 4-5 of them). I haven't done a full scope review for a long time.
Do I have "agreements" with all these companies not to review scopes? Seriously, think about it.
I usually do teardown first because they are fairly simple and fun, as was the hacking video etc. I do what interests me.
Yes I'd like to do reviews too, but if you'd actually have done one yourself before then you'll know how much work it is. It's hard to get the enthusiasm to start such a video when you know how much work is involved.
The other bloggers say the same thing.
But most of these people have done plenty of in depth reviews of simple budget beginner scopes. I just thought that with such a big name coming in and literally giving them away people would be racing each other to get the full in depth review out, because it's kind of a unique thing. It's not just another InsRiSigWonTek. In fact it's marketing directly calls those guys out, great drama: "They talk a big game but can goliath really outperform david??" shit it's like must see nerd youtube.
Funny how the world doesn't work the way you want it too huh?
I'm assuming you have a scope, please go an do a review for us (video or text, both bothered) and let us know how much work it is.
I'm just explaining my thinking here and showing you that I did consider these things, not trying to refute what you're saying. Think of it as just the paranoid perspective I guess.
And with that, I'm done. I've tried to explain to why and that's all I can do.
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All good; I do not claim that you have cunningly planned it this way. But the coinciding timing is what it is now, and it does send an awkward message.
Perhaps, but what can I do about it?
I'm always looking for premium products to resell that aren't available easily elsewhere, and they are quite rare.
What do you want me to do? Do a separate review video of the PM300 first and then only include it in the shootout at all?
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FYI people: the hard working learned host here isn't holding 5kv insulation test probes to your head to buy anything. :scared:
Whilst I understand and casually observe the trend (all over Youtube BTW) as the shared concerns above,
at the end of the day be it coincidence or not, unaware partial product placement, or whatever you want to label it,
your pocket does what YOU instruct it to, not what one Youtuber/Blogger 'appears' to sway you over to.
I bought some items that EEV tube negatively bashed a bit, but they were not the only 'reviews' I checked out beforehand to influence MY decision to buy a particular product that suited my application.
Perhaps the host tries to do TOO MUCH to keep everyone happy, and EAT, so please consider before typing up 'hmmm...shifty business going on..?' incinuations too hastily,
and put yourself in his place for a week
Besides, what's the problem if someone occasionally sponsors some good gear anyway at a fair price, and tells you straight up he gets a cut,
especially after giving it a good thrashing and trashing >:D
...AND supplies a FREE forum out of his pocket for support questions :-+ and bitching..
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Perhaps the host tries to do TOO MUCH to keep everyone happy, and EAT, so please consider before typing up 'hmmm...shifty business going on..?' incinuations too hastily, and put yourself in his place for a week
I have no problem whatsoever with Dave selling selected test equipment. I just think it is an unfortunate decision to launch his new offering in the context of a big "multimeter shootout" review/event.
The "all opinion", no-holds-barred approach is the hallmark of Dave's videos. But how can he thrash other meters when, in the very same review, he happens to present a premium meter, which he happens to sell? Even if his assessments are completely unaffected by his commercial interests -- which I am confident they will be -- this would leave a bad aftertaste.
If you feel that it is uncalled for to criticize Dave, may I remind you that Dave did ask for opinions on the Sanwa launch, earlier in this thread. And opinions he is getting -- certainly personal ones, certainly varied, probably somewhat representative of the spectrum of reactions among the viewers of the upcoming multimeter shootout.
What do you want me to do? Do a separate review video of the PM300 first and then only include it in the shootout at all?
Personally I would prefer to keep the Sanwa meter out of the multimeter shootout entirely, and do a separate video on it. I think the Sanwa is in a somewhat high price class than the other meters, if you look at average market prices, so there is another reason besides the conflict of interest to keep it out.
It would be even better to put a few weeks between the two videos -- either one could go first, in my opinion.
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If he was going to be unscrupulous about it then he could easily have done the review with all the meters at hand and then stated during the video that the Sanwa was the best out of the lot, then in few weeks declare that he was so impressed with the quality of the meter that he is now offering them up for sale, he didn't do this and instead laid his cards on the table in advance and declared his interest, personally I wouldn't buy one anyway regardless of the pitch because if anything the CD-800 series better suites my usage should I require a glove box style meter.
Sanwa Co.
http://overseas.sanwa-meter.co.jp/ (http://overseas.sanwa-meter.co.jp/)
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That is a nice case on the CD-800. :-DMM
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They have backlight and current as well but are much larger than a standard pocket or wallet meter, I think the hard cover on these may also double as a bail stand similar to the CD-800A pictured below, this particular model appears to be PC compatible according to the video below, perhaps the other models also share this ability. :-/O :-DMM
Sanwa CD-800A Software
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06cZ4awDQuE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06cZ4awDQuE)
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I don't have an issue with product placement that is marked as such.
The only issue would be if most of the videos are that way. Then I couldn't just avoid (or not take seriously).
Also I don't see a problem with knowing why Dave chose to offer a specific meter over others in the first place. Maybe it's just the ability to make a contract with that specific company for that specific product, but maybe there's something more.
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They have backlight and current as well but are much larger than a standard pocket or wallet meter, I think the hard cover on these may also double as a bail stand similar to the CD-800A pictured below, this particular model appears to be PC compatible according to the video below, perhaps the other models also share this ability. :-/O :-DMM
Thanks Muttley. Good to see the vid in order to get a sense for the relative size. Very helpful.
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If he was going to be unscrupulous about it then he could easily have done the review with all the meters at hand and then stated during the video that the Sanwa was the best out of the lot, then in few weeks declare that he was so impressed with the quality of the meter that he is now offering them up for sale, he didn't do this and instead laid his cards on the table in advance and declared his interest.
Sanwa Co.
http://overseas.sanwa-meter.co.jp/ (http://overseas.sanwa-meter.co.jp/)
Nobody then would complain. I too at first had some objections towards including the DMM, but after reconsidering some some arguments, I dont see any problem.
Since obviousley its imlossible to make everybody happy, I think its best to just include the Sanwa meter, like Dave was going to anyway and mentioning that he is going to sell it. Those who dont like that, shoudnt watch it. And if they hate it so much, they may also dislike the video
Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
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Thanks Muttley. Good to see the vid in order to get a sense for the relative size. Very helpful.
After a bit more research and a read of all the manuals it turns out that the CD-800 series are huge, like scary big as can be seen in the video below, they could probably do with a pull out handle and a couple of wheels for travel purposes or people on the go. :palm:
Sanwa Digital Multimeter Unboxing CD-800A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wrtXedg-78 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wrtXedg-78)
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Yeah, from the previous video it looked about as wide as a U1282A and about 2/3 the length.
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Funny how the world doesn't work the way you want it too huh?
I'm assuming you have a scope, please go an do a review for us (video or text, both bothered) and let us know how much work it is.
I would find playing basketball like Michael Jordan hard too, it's not what I've made a name and fortune for myself doing. It would still suck to hear from Michael Jordan himself that it's too hard to play ball and he doesn't wanna, that he'll get paid the same if he sells some shoes with his name on em so why bother?
Yes, I don't like the way the world works. You can ban me if this is offensive, it's how I feel and I don't censor myself. It will be my last word on the subject either way.
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That basketball looks HUGE, compared to the other pocket contenders! :-DMM
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He has been talking about doing this pocket multimeter shootout for around three years that I know of so I seriously doubt that it is just a ploy to flog stuff.
Yes, go check the various threads on this forum including lists of meters and probably a photo or two of the meters I've had for a long time now. And I got serious about this again recently before even finding this PM300 meter. All verifiable on twitter & this forum.
Still looking forward to this video. Hopefully not another 3 years, some of these my be antiques by then! :)
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Still looking forward to this video. Hopefully not another 3 years, some of these my be antiques by then! :)
Any longer than 3 years, a few members may be antiques too.. ;D
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I'm also looking forward to it. For some reason or another, multimeter reviews are among my favorite types.
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This one is interesting, mostly because of the very SIMPLE auto & one button design. Seems over priced in comparison to other pocket meters.
Greenlee PDMM-20 Pocket Multimeter
http://tinyurl.com/ycbejlu4 (http://tinyurl.com/ycbejlu4)
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If Dave reviews stuff, I pay attention; it's not just if he says it is good, he shows how well it works, points out flaws down to stuff like rough edges on internal metal work. He DOES influence my purchasing decisions but only BECAUSE I regard him as an HONEST 3rd party reviewer; as he says, there are many examples where it was very clear that he wasn't paid to say nice things about the product. Examples:
1. Dave reviewed / tore down the Siglent SPD3303X Power Supply and while the review wasn't all good, he did show me the quality of the innards and I was impressed - when I went looking I found the SPD3303X-E which met my needs, was a great price, and now sits on my bench.
2. Dave reviewed the Aneng AN8008 multimeter; cheap, 9999 count, pretty accurate, nice and small, $20. I bought it and like it.
He's also shown many ways to hack stuff that a paid reviewer would never do. If he makes a buck selling stuff he's designed, more power to him.
It must be a pretty thankless job for Dave so here you go Dave, from me (and I suspect the vast majority of eevblog members)
THANK YOU DAVE
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This one is interesting, mostly because of the very SIMPLE auto & one button design. Seems over priced in comparison to other pocket meters.
Greenlee PDMM-20 Pocket Multimeter
http://tinyurl.com/ycbejlu4 (http://tinyurl.com/ycbejlu4)
That could go both ways. eg. If the auto-switching adds another second to all resistance measurements then it would be annoying to use.
In my little shootout (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-multimeter-shootout!-aneng-an101-vs-uni-t-ut120c-vs-victor-vc921/) I chose the ANENG as the winner simply because the resistance measurements could be much faster.
(in fact the slowness of the Uni-T was the main reason why I went looking for another multimeter, I have no problem with the Uni-T other than that)
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Have we got this one in the shootout?
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-multimeter-shootout/?action=dlattach;attach=351705;image)
It's by a reputable Japanese brand (or so I'm told).
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Yeah, one of those ones that starts with an 'S'. I think there was some video about one recently. :-DD
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Have we got this one in the shootout?
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-multimeter-shootout/?action=dlattach;attach=351705;image)
It's by a reputable Japanese brand (or so I'm told).
Looks nice, but I don't know about how it would compare to digital meters.
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Have we got this one in the shootout?
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/pocket-multimeter-shootout/?action=dlattach;attach=351705;image)
It's by a reputable Japanese brand (or so I'm told).
Looks nice, but I don't know about how it would compare to digital meters.
3.5 digits?
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2018: Did I miss the “shootout”?
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2018: Did I miss the “shootout”?
I missed it ;D
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I do have some old footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0klmqsykrYU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0klmqsykrYU)
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The Triplett 2030-C includes current ranges which are missing on most pocket meters. It has a striking physical similarity to the Aneng AN8203 and Victor models.
http://www.triplett.com/shop/model-2030-c-digital-multimeter-test-equipment/ (http://www.triplett.com/shop/model-2030-c-digital-multimeter-test-equipment/)