Siglent Network Analyzer usage

[kladit]

I have an SSA3032X-R which has a 2 port network analyzer built in.
Firmware is 3.2.2.6.0R7
I just started to explore this thing a little ..

There are built in (in firmware) correction parameters for a couple of calibration-kits and two user definable ones.

Two and a half questions about ..

Why it is not possible to define parameters for LOAD in USER1 and USER2?
These are grayed out here, no input possible, in contrast to OPEN, SHORT and THROUGH.

Is it possible to save and later load these USER1 and USER2 parameters?
And if yes, how?

[tautech]

I have an SSA3032X-R which has a 2 port network analyzer built in.
Firmware is 3.2.2.6.0R7
I just started to explore this thing a little ..

There are built in (in firmware) correction parameters for a couple of calibration-kits and two user definable ones.

Two and a half questions about ..

Why it is not possible to define parameters for LOAD in USER1 and USER2?
These are grayed out here, no input possible, in contrast to OPEN, SHORT and THROUGH.

Is it possible to save and later load these USER1 and USER2 parameters?
And if yes, how?

All SSA/SVA VNA capable models are only a single port VNA providing just S11 and S21 measurements.
Port 2 (RF In) is not an active port providing any stimulus, therefore to get S12 and S22 measurements the DUT needs be reversed.

Any Cal kit can be used for SOLT calibration then saved for recall.
In the File menu the Save type must be set to Cal then a Cal kit's parameters are saved to local memory and a specific name can be added to identify it and aid with recall/Load (Cal kit).
Once saved and recalled parameters like port extensions can be adjusted to suit a task.

I've used this process with SVA1032X (same functionality) on a buddy's Cal kits before I had my own.

[kladit]

Rob,

at my peace of SSA3032X-R in Networl-Analyzer-Mode I am not able to
input a value for Load into USER1 or USER2 defintitions for a calibration kit.
It is grayed out, so no input for the load resistance is possible.
Can you please ask SIGLENT why? This in my opinion is a serious bug.

One  can calibrate the network analyzer with a  random 47 Ohm resistor as a load
and measure housenumbers afterwards because the software math takes it for 50 Ohm.

The handbook part of the network analyzer is more than poor and the same for all
Siglent network analyzers except the SVA5000s. There are a lot of questions
between the lines.

Furthermore I think it will be useful to have a SAVE-button available
at the same place where one has input the data as a closure and not
in a separate FILE-menu, but this point is more of cosmetic nature.

[tautech]

Rob,

at my peace of SSA3032X-R in Networl-Analyzer-Mode I am not able to
input a value for Load into USER1 or USER2 defintitions for a calibration kit.
It is grayed out, so no input for the load resistance is possible.
Can you please ask SIGLENT why? This in my opinion is a serious bug.

You need run a SOLT Cal first before it can be set as USER 1 or 2.

Furthermore I think it will be useful to have a SAVE-button available
at the same place where one has input the data as a closure and not
in a separate FILE-menu, but this point is more of cosmetic nature.

You do, on the front panel, BUT its function to save which file type is set in the File menu.
While the button is marked Save, it's actually a shortcut to save a file type previously set.
Once activated you get the chance to name the file or just press Enter to bypass the filename process.


Had to sell my SVA1032X a while back but today we got inquiry so I'll have one out shortly and come back with any further info.

[tautech]

A few screenshots from SVA1032X following assorted Cal menus.
Note we can Save/Load from within the Cal menu and use of this feature then sets the front panel Save button to only manage Cal filetypes.



Then we need use the File menu to set Save/Load to our required file types.


User Cal files
Settings to Define Load are greyed out until I suspect the load has been swept. This I did not test.

[kladit]

Rob, thanks for you quick answer.

I did a SOLT calibration and tryed to put in the parameters for Load
in USER1, but it is still grayed out so no input possible.

I think it should go the other way round, but may be I am wrong.

First I buy a calibration kit.
With it I get a sheet of paper with its correct data,
describing its differences from an ideal calibration kit,
measured by highest precision analyzers.

These differences I have  to put in in USER1(or2) to tell the analyzers math,
which always calculates with the (not existing) ideal calibration kit the
differences to it. And then do the calibration.

The efforts to manufacture a calibration kit near the unreacheable perfection
one and to determine the small differences to this is resposible for the
enormous price differences in calibration kits.

I started the exploration of my network analyzer with the attempt to
measure the quality of my Miny-Ciruits HAT BNC attenuators.
These are specified for DC to 2GHz, so I assumed to get a return loss
of better 20dB at 2 GHz.

I used a male BNC calibration kit from sdr-kits, set the anlyzer to measure S11 and did 1 port SOL calibration.

Then I measured a 30 dB attenuator and got a return loss of 35 db (100kHz) and only 10 db (2 GHz).
Next I used a Spinner BN533863 calibration kit at the same cable but necessarily with and additional
BNC double-female and an BNC to N connector.

After calibration I used the port extensions to move the calibration plane back to the end of the BNC cable (-274ps)
and then measured the same 30 dB attenuator.

This time I got a return loss of 35 db (100kHz) and 24 dB (2 GHz), not changing
with and without 50 Ohm termination at the end oft the attenuator (as expected).

May be other owners of an SVA will try to reproduce a similiar procdure and post
their results, to enlighten us all about the right way to get resonable results
when using these analyzers.

Many users have reported to be happy to have unlocked their SSA3021X+ to an SVA
but I have not read much of their experiences in using these as SVA up to now.

The next procdure will be to build a simple fixuture for smd elements, measure
the fixtures data and save it in the analyzer for correction of the measurement plane.
This is called de-embedding.
After that the real usage of the network analyzer can start.

If anybody has done this already and is willing to share its results this will
helpfull for all users here, the manual is not helpful in this respect, to express
it friendly.

Rob, please ask Siglent for a detailed description of how to add the data for a
calibration kit to USER1 USER2 and why it is not possible to enter data for Load.

[tautech]

.........
The next procedure will be to build a simple fixture for smd elements, measure the fixtures data and save it in the analyzer for correction of the measurement plane.
This is called de-embedding.
After that the real usage of the network analyzer can start.

If anybody has done this already and is willing to share its results this will helpful for all users here, the manual is not helpful in this respect, to express it friendly.

A simple fixture for TH components I cobbled together here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg4345558/#msg4345558

Inspired by Chris Grossman's work:

[tautech]

For completeness, a pic of the 2 SMA TH fixtures I've cobbled together.

They are across and through incarnations with the through with a wire shorting link fitted for Through calibration.
ST42 SMD tweezers case for scale.

[kladit]

Here again, this times I hope I will get the pictures up to eevblog.

First S11 calibraition with sdr-kits cal-kits.
The 50 Ohm load is 49.85 Ohm.
Then measure of mini_circuits HAT30+ attenuator Smith and return-loss.

Second calibraition with Spinner BN533863R000.
The 50 Ohm load is 50.05 Ohm.
Then measure of (the same) mini_circuits HAT30+ attenuator Smith and return-loss.


The results of these simple S11 measures with different calibration kits
are very different.
So to make a statement about return loss is impossible with this instrument
(SSA3032X-R). Or is there a failure in my approach to measure?

The question is will it be possible to improve the accurracy of Siglent-VNAs
by input the correct load resistance of the cal-kit in use into the definition
of a USER cal-kit?

With current firmware is it not possible, the input-fields are grayed out.

I have read the high accuracy of an DG8SAQ-VNA(sdr-kits) or the Funkamateur VN-VA5
depends only on the acurracy of the correction data, delivered with an calibration kit.

To measure and get this correction data a very high precision network analyzer is needed,
unpayable for hobbyist/amateurs. But by simply transfer the correction data of an cal-kit
ascertained by a high precision analyzer the accurray of this is transferred to a
relative cheap analyzer with very sophisticated firmware capable to use it.

Can Siglent for their network analyzers provide a firmware which will give them
the same possiblilities and so accuracy as the much cheaper ones metioned above?

[ozkarah]

Could you please first calibrate with the Spinner kit, then measure the SDR Kit components.
This should give a brief info about how they differ.