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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: kcs on July 31, 2014, 10:54:46 am

Title: Probe Master test leads
Post by: kcs on July 31, 2014, 10:54:46 am
I have received my test leads from Probe Master that comes with Right Angle Safety Standard Size Banana Plug. I was going to use them with Fluke 87V. I was disappointed to find out that they are not compatible with my DMM even though Probe Master cross reference table says the opposite. When a reasonable force is applied, banana plugs can be inserted only as far as it can be seen in the first photo (right to left: original Fluke, Probe Master and low brand test leads). I have double-checked Probe Master test leads with another DMM and got similar results.

It seems that safety shrouds of original Fluke and Probe Master test leads are the same. Length, thickness and diameter does match. The only difference that I can see is banana plug itself. The second photo shows that.

I am a bit disappointed that Dave did not test Probe Master test leads he received in one of his Mailbag section videos. That could save me a lot of time and money (I have ordered the most expensive Kit, which was delivered from USA to Europe).

Overall, I like the quality of Probe Master test leads. Too bad they do not work well with my DMM.
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: rsjsouza on July 31, 2014, 11:09:00 am
If the contact feels solid and the probes don't fall off, is there a particular reason other than aesthetics to why the shroud should be completely inserted? Honest curiosity, as Pomona cables show the same behaviour in my Brymen BM857...

In my opinion this is not a write off on the probes, especially if you are working on low-voltage electronics.
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: radioFlash on July 31, 2014, 11:32:46 am
I found the same thing with the Probe Master leads and my Fluke 187. The leads work fine with my Brymen meters. It is a little aggravating, but otherwise the probes are very nice.
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: kcs on July 31, 2014, 12:12:00 pm
Aesthetics is not important when you pay $2 for test leads, but when I pay 25 times that (+ expensive shipping) I expect it to be bang-on.

At the moment those test leads do work. I a not sure if the contact will remain as good as it is now, but let's hope so. On the other hand, I wouldn't risk using these test leads for higher voltage or current measurements.
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: kcs on September 07, 2014, 03:00:47 am
Apparently, if you want to use these test leads with Fluke 87V, you need to select Standard Size Banana Plugs.
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: nanofrog on September 07, 2014, 04:48:28 am
Any differences in the depth of the 4mm sockets from standard?

FWIW, I've run into this situation with binding posts on PSU's.
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: Corporate666 on September 08, 2014, 02:41:16 am
Quote from: kcs on September 07, 2014, 03:00:47 am
Apparently, if you want to use these test leads with Fluke 87V, you need to select Standard Size Banana Plugs.

The cross reference chart on their website states that

http://www.probemaster.com/pages.php?pID=9&CDpath=3 (http://www.probemaster.com/pages.php?pID=9&CDpath=3)

It lists "8017S, 8043S, 9101R", which *are* the "standard size" banana plugs.

Did you fail to read the cross reference chart and ordered the wrong leads?  I ordered those listed and they work fine in the 87V. 
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: kcs on September 08, 2014, 11:08:16 am
I didn't fail to read a cross reference chart, but you, on the other hand, did fail to read my messages. I quote: "I have received my test leads from Probe Master that comes with Right Angle Safety Standard Size Banana Plug". All those referenced test leads (8017S, 8043S, 9101R) have Right Angle Safety Standard Size Banana Plugs. You can also see that I have the correct one ordered from the photos I have supplied. The key word here is Safety.

So you say your test leads work fine. Do you mind taking photos where we can see your test leads inserted in 87V?
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: Corporate666 on September 08, 2014, 06:11:40 pm
Quote from: kcs on September 08, 2014, 11:08:16 am
I didn't fail to read a cross reference chart, but you, on the other hand, did fail to read my messages. I quote: "I have received my test leads from Probe Master that comes with Right Angle Safety Standard Size Banana Plug". All those referenced test leads (8017S, 8043S, 9101R) have Right Angle Safety Standard Size Banana Plugs. You can also see that I have the correct one ordered from the photos I have supplied. The key word here is Safety.

So you say your test leads work fine. Do you mind taking photos where we can see your test leads inserted in 87V?

You wrote in your initial message "Right Angle Safety Standard Size Banana Plug"

then you wrote after that

"need to select Standard Size Banana Plugs".

There are multiple parts listed as "standard size banana plugs".   If you fail to be clear in your message, then the fault of the ambiguity is yours.

The one listed on Probe Master's website is the standard size plug.  I ordered several sets and they work in all my meters, including the 87V.  That meter is one I take to trade shows so it's packaged up on a pallet in a warehouse somewhere at the moment, but I had no problem using the leads in it.  You stated "reasonable force".  Are you able to get the leads in or not?  What did Probe Master say? 

Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: HighVoltage on September 08, 2014, 06:54:12 pm
I just had a similar problem with some good quality German made test leads.
They just did not go in to a Fluke 179

It turned out that the plastic insulation safety tip of the banana plug was slightly too large.
Since I needed the test leads, I just removed the plastic tip from the 4 mm banana plug buy
pulling it out and then the connection worked.
One would expect that these tolerances are well known to the manufacturer of high end cables.
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: kcs on September 09, 2014, 08:08:20 am
Quote from: Corporate666 on September 08, 2014, 06:11:40 pm
You wrote in your initial message "Right Angle Safety Standard Size Banana Plug"

then you wrote after that

"need to select Standard Size Banana Plugs".

There are multiple parts listed as "standard size banana plugs".   If you fail to be clear in your message, then the fault of the ambiguity is yours.
Yes, that is exactly what I did. You fail to see the difference between "Right Angle Safety Standard Size Banana Plug" and "Standard Size Banana Plugs" even after I emphasize in bold that Safety is the key word here. I have used the exact naming Probe Master uses (see the attached picture).

My suggestion was to select non-Safety plugs (eg 8010S over 8017S) even if Probe Master cross reference table suggests the opposite. 

Quote from: Corporate666 on September 08, 2014, 06:11:40 pm
You stated "reasonable force".  Are you able to get the leads in or not?
As I have said before, you have failed to read my messages.

Quote from: Corporate666 on September 08, 2014, 06:11:40 pm
I ordered several sets and they work in all my meters, including the 87V.
Be more specific: what are the part numbers of your test leads, what do you mean by "work".
This also "works", but...
(http://yourhomewizards.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/electric-accident1.jpg)

Quote from: Corporate666 on September 08, 2014, 06:11:40 pm
What did Probe Master say?
They said I am the first customer to complain about this particular meter.


Quote from: HighVoltage on September 08, 2014, 06:54:12 pm
Since I needed the test leads, I just removed the plastic tip from the 4 mm banana plug buy
pulling it out and then the connection worked.
Could you share a photo how does it look like after your modification?

Quote from: HighVoltage on September 08, 2014, 06:54:12 pm
One would expect that these tolerances are well known to the manufacturer of high end cables.
Yeah, I was expecting that to be the case as well.
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: Anthocyanina on November 05, 2022, 05:30:39 am
I recently got a fluke 117, and the leads it came with are super stiff. I wanted to use my probe master leads with it, but they also stick out. they do feel secure in the sockets, but from how deep they go, it seems like they will just barely make contact with the top of the metal part of the socket and are tightly held by the plastic part. My leads are also the 8017s, also marked as fluke compatible. beyond this point, no amount of force can get them further in. and as you see from the black lead, this is the pair i cut that bit of plastic to fit in my aneng 870. Has anyone cut off the safety shroud entirely? I'd like to see them without it to compare with the ones that come unshrouded that do fit fluke meters.
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: J-R on November 05, 2022, 07:39:46 am
I also have these identical Probe Masters that I purchased recently, and they fit in all my Fluke/Brymen/HP etc. DMMs.  I don't have the Fluke 117 however.

I specifically tested the 87V per the original post and do find that there is a slight catch under certain conditions that makes it feel like they don't want to go in, especially with the current jack.  But if you wiggle them a little, they will continue to go in all the way.  Perhaps this is the issue with the 117?
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: amc184 on November 05, 2022, 07:59:34 am
Firstly, the Probe Master website lists models 8017S and 8043S as being compatible with a Fluke 87, and it looks like you chose one of those.  There's no issue of you going against any recommendations.

I also have a set of Probe Master leads with these connectors at the meter end, and this made me have a look at them.  I've got both Fluke 115 and 27 multimeters, and use both Probe Master and Pomona leads with them.  I found that for both meters some of the shroud is still visible when they're fully engaged, but the fit is secure.

I took some measurements, and here's what I saw for a Fluke 115:
Probe modelShroud exposed, start of resistanceShroud exposed, fully engaged
Probe Master 815212mm6mm
Pomona 5519A11mm3mm

For a Fluke 27:
Probe modelShroud exposed, start of resistanceShroud exposed, fully engaged
Probe Master 81529mm3mm
Pomona 5519A7mm2mm

What are the measurements for the 87V?  If you're seeing 5 to 7mm of further insertion after first resistance you're probably okay.

There's isn't much shroud length left over when these leads are fully engaged in the Fluke 27, and it's likely there are other meters where nothing is left at all.  In both the 117 and the 27 the metal part of the socket is recessed quite far in from the front face of the meter, but it seems like they're not nearly as recessed in the 87.  Looking at how little shroud is visible for the other leads you've pictured, I wonder if they'd even work for a Fluke 27.

What I think is happening here is that the safety 4mm sockets on multimeters aren't as standard as you'd really expect.  Probe Master, Pomona and other manufacturers of test leads are trying to provide a connector that is as compatible with as many meters as possible, so they use a long shroud length.
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: Anthocyanina on November 05, 2022, 11:16:41 am
Thank you, the 8017s are also listed as compatible with the 117. The contact being good isn't the only important thing, i think also how far they protrude from the meter is important for mechanical reasons, the further out they go, the more leverage they have against the socket and can be more easily damaged if it falls and the lead connector is hit from the side. But it seems that's indeed how they were designed, very long! so nothing to do about it!  :scared:

Mine also protrude about 6mm from the fluke socket when fully pressed in. I measured with a toothpick and marked with a pen, and the depth of the socket is just about 6mm shorter than how far i can push it into the test lead connector to the tip of the banana. Wonder why they make those bananas so long, and why the unshrouded ones do go in all the way, makes me think they are not using the exact same banana or something.

how deep is the metal bit of the socket of the fluke 87? i'll measure the depth of the 117 precisely tomorrow.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: PushUp on November 05, 2022, 02:54:25 pm
I think this is a Fluke-Only problem, concerning this type of Probe Master test lead and any other brand I own. No matter which Fluke I take: 117, 289, 1507 any brand of test lead has the same problem, that the test leads rise about in a way too much. However, I have never paid attention to it before.



(https://i.postimg.cc/9XNW7J8v/Bildschirmfoto-vom-2022-11-05-15-38-37.png) (https://postimg.cc/LhLKdBMT)



But compared to Keysight or Gossen Metrawatt, the same Probe Master test leads both slide in till the end and have a very good connection - Gossen Metrawatt is even superior to any other DMM I own.

Allthough the test leads, which came with the Gossen Metrawatt itself are of very poor quality with respect to resistance value (the 117 has no zero function), they seem and feel to fit best into my 117, which is the reason, why I use them for this purpose to poke into power outlets with childproof lock.



(https://i.postimg.cc/fk4pvt00/SNAG-0112.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)



All my test leads have the same outer dimensions and even the Gossen Metrawatt test leads have a big safe spacing.



(https://i.postimg.cc/V6WWhJTC/SNAG-0113.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)




Cheers!  ;)
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: Martin72 on November 05, 2022, 11:00:43 pm
Hm-hm....
At home I got a pair of probemaster for my brymen BM869s and they´re really great.
So I planned to order several for work because the fluke tips aren´t so good as the probemaster.
Now seeing this...
We got several Fluke 117,  "tons" of Fluke87, Fluke 89, Fluke 179, Fluke 187, 289....
Fluke 179 are real badass what connection concerns.
I think I get my probemaster first to work for testing, before ordering.


Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: mwb1100 on November 05, 2022, 11:42:56 pm
Does this problem affect the performance of the probes/meter?  Or is it just cosmetic (they stick out too far)?
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: Anthocyanina on November 05, 2022, 11:52:36 pm
Quote from: mwb1100 on November 05, 2022, 11:42:56 pm
Does this problem affect the performance of the probes/meter?  Or is it just cosmetic (they stick out too far)?

it could be more harmful for the meter socket in case of a fall than if the connector was much closer to the meter, and since the banana is thinner near the tip and thicker in the middle, the area which actually contacts the socket could be smaller if the center of the banana isn't fully inside the socket
Title: Re: Probe Master test leads
Post by: J-R on November 06, 2022, 03:51:51 am
2nd look on my end and the 287 doesn't accept the various lantern connectors quite as far as the 87V (which does fully accept them), matching PushUp's photos. 

However, in all cases there was quite a bit of travel into the metal portion of the jack, so zero concerns here on my side.

My opinion is if you drop these on the jacks there is a good possibility for damage, no matter what probes you are using.