EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: btspce on September 05, 2019, 10:53:16 am
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I have been trying to get a replacement for my EEVblog multimeter since 15 May of this year. 3 Month to send a replacement that they clearly has had in stock is a bit long don't you think? |O
Below is the email exchange.
2019-05-15
Dear Sir or Madam,
We refer to your order xxxxx from 12.04.2019.
We have been informed by Kane Test that some of the shipped EVBlog 121GW multimeters have an issue. This can result in a loss of calibration data after a firmware update. Unfortunately, this issue cannot be resolved by the customer.
Please check if your 121GW has a serial number in the range of 190106323 .. 190106450.
If this is the case:
- Do NOT attempt to update the firmware on your 121GW.
- Do NOT yet send the device back to us. We will arrange an exchange once we receive new stock from Kane Test in about 3-4 weeks.
- Please let us know the serial number of your device, and if you agree in exchanging your affected 121GW with a new device.
If your 121GW is not in the noted serial number range, you do not need to worry and can ignore this e-mail.
Thank you for your cooperation!
Best regards,
Your Welectron Team
2019-05-15
Hello
Serial number of our 121GW is 1901063xx so it seems to be affected by this.
2019-05-20
Thank you for the message.
We registered your device for the replacement program. You will receive further information once we get new 121GW from the manufacturer with the issue fixed.
Please do not hesitate to contact us if there are any further questions.
Best regards,
Welectron
2019-07-02
Hello
How is it going with the replacement of this multimeter ? ETA ?
2019-07-05
Hello
How is it going with the replacement of this multimeter ? ETA ?
2019-07-09
Hello
How is it going with the replacement of the EEVBlog multimeter ? ETA ? [Ticket#61114xxx]
Welectron registered my device for the replacement program and that was 6 weeks ago.
2019-07-10
Thank you for the message and your patience.
You will hear from us this week.
Best regards,
Welectron
2019-07-19
Hello
I didnt hear from welectron last week and still nothing about the EEVblog replacement multimeter.
2019-07-26
Hello
"You will hear from us this week" was 2 weeks ago and noone contacted me. Still no information regarding the replacement multimeter??? You have them in stock so what is the problem?
2019-07-26
Thank you for the message.
We are working on it, sorry for the delay due to a very high inquiry and order volume due to the Pi 4 launch. You have a working multimeter in the meantime, we will arrange the exchange ASAP.
Please do not hesitate to contact us if there are any further questions.
Best regards,
Welectron
2019-07-26
Thanks for the info !
2019-08-21
Any news on the replacement multimeter ?
Would like to do the firmware upgrade as it fixes quite a few bugs relating to logging but cant on the one I have.
Have the replacement been shipped ?
2019-09-05
This has to be one of the worst customer support experiences ever!
What is the holdup with the replacement multimeter ?
Even if you are busy with the Pi 4 launch you can't have been so busy for the past 3 and a half month that you can't take 10 minutes to send out a replacement multimeter that you clearly have in stock ? You didn't even reply to my last email from 21 aug. I was supposed to get a replacement more than three month ago in your first email sent out.
There are multiple bugs in the current firmware that has been fixed in a later firmware that I can't install because I'm waiting on the replacement from Welectron.
Where is it ??? My company intended to order more from Welectron but that is not happening now.
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Good to know this.
But wait. If I understand correctly the calibration problem will happen cos a bad firmware version update.
If this is the case, why to return the dmm?
Why not only fix the buggy firmware and release a fixed version to the customer?
Sent from my SM-J500F using Tapatalk
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There is a bug in this version (atleast 1.61 is affected) of the firmware that messes up the calibration if any other version is installed. This has been corrected in later versions. As I understands it the problem is because the calibration was done on this particular firmware version.
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Thanks for the warning.
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There is a bug in this version (atleast 1.61 is affected) of the firmware that messes up the calibration if any other version is installed. This has been corrected in later versions. As I understands it the problem is because the calibration was done on this particular firmware version.
Is there no workaround, eg. a way to save/restore the calibration during upgrades?
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There is a bug in this version (atleast 1.61 is affected) of the firmware that messes up the calibration if any other version is installed. This has been corrected in later versions. As I understands it the problem is because the calibration was done on this particular firmware version.
Is there no workaround, eg. a way to save/restore the calibration during upgrades?
There is a calibration save option, but it presumably saves the messed up calibration data, so of no use except with the same firmware. Considering this only affects 100 or so units, I can understand the preference for a "recall" over the support hassles of some one-off "calibration fix-up firmware".
Back to the topic, I presume Welectron have been promised a batch of replacement devices to cover the "recall" but are still waiting on that, and are lacking information on when they will be available. I can also somewhat understand them not wanting to use their saleable stock for replacements when there may be 100 or so units involved. It is frustrating, but you do have a near fully functional meter. They very likely have a different (expedited) process to handle a one-off DOA unit.
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There is a calibration save option, but it presumably saves the messed up calibration data, so of no use except with the same firmware.
No way to convert it?
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There is a calibration save option, but it presumably saves the messed up calibration data, so of no use except with the same firmware.
No way to convert it?
This supposedly only affected a reasonably small batch so I expect they wouldn't want to expend much effort on a one-off conversion process that customers would very likely also require further support to correctly use.
Swap out the meters, and when the bad batch come back they just reflash the latest firmware and re-do the full calibration. Quite pragmatic.
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Swap out the meters, and when the bad batch come back they just reflash the latest firmware and re-do the full calibration. Quite pragmatic.
Maybe Brymen requires them to send all the meters to the factory simultaneously in a big box for reflashing/recalibration and return to users. If you send yours in now you'll just be waiting around with no meter until "batch day" arrives.
Who knows? Not me, but I have a feeling the phrase "between a rock and a hard place" will be applicable.
I'm sure Welectron is reading this... maybe a clarification should be given.
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I'm really sorry to hear you have problems. I personally had only best experience with them. I understand your frustration.
To cut on the speculations whether Marco reads this and what is going on, I sent an E-mail to Welectron mentioning this post and kindly asked him to join in to the discussion.
We'll see how it goes. It would be nice for you if this gets sorted out.
Regards,
Sinisa
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I wonder what "the manufacturer" has to say about this? :P
Obviously Welectron's communication leaves a lot to be desired in the case you describe. But their ability to actually fix this for you depends entirely on getting adequate support from the manufacturer. Have replacement multimeters ever been shipped to the vendors?
@Dave, are you involved in this? Any update or background?
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Maybe Brymen....(edit)
The meter in question is a 121GW from Kane Test/ UEI, the BM235 was from Brymen.
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Posters above have given a range of reasons why Welectron might prefer to not fulfill this replacement from standard stock. However, this is not the concern of a customer with a faulty unit. The unit is defective and Welectron have an obligation to repair or replace.
This is a very poor show on the part of Welectron and a potential breach of EU consumer regulations.
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I got a pm from Welectron to remove names in our email correspondence so that has now been edited out above. Sadly still no explanation.
Seems that noone has gotten their replacement yet. Atleast customers of Welectron.
Since starting this thread I got pm's from other owners that are still waiting for their replacement aswell.
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Welectron please give us an explanation of what is taking this long. Thats the least you can do. And it can't still be the Pi4 launch.
I don't want to bash Welectron but this is a bit ridiculous.
Are you waiting on a special batch dedicated for these replacements? ETA was 3-4 weeks nearly 4 months ago. If so why is it taking 4 months?
Are you waiting for a new batch that also incorporates the pcb thickness fix or possibly some other issue ?
@Dave. What is happening regarding this? Can you get things moving? It's after all your partner in EU.
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In the EU can't you contact the manufacturer directly? Here in Brazil contacting the manufacturer is the norm in such cases.
I don't know that seller, but according with your messages I wouldn't expect much from them if they are responsible for the replacement (and not the manufacturer). They having the item in stock and not replacing your defective unit, shows to me that they care more with themselves (and/or with the manufacturer) than with the customer.
The customer having to wait months to a replacement is not reasonable. The seller having the same product available in stock and yet not replacing the unit, is much worse.
Probably Dave can help you with this, as the meter has her brand in it.
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I never got the point why the seller has to repair or replace the sold out stuff under warranty.
For me the seller didn't build that tool or whatever other sold out stuff.
So, how can the seller repair anything? They are even not qualified or not registered for such of repairing.
For me the seller should only give a contact to an official service center and the service center should take care about the custommer.
Sent from my SM-J500F using Tapatalk
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Anyone had the sense to 'Report to Moderator' so Dave gets to see all this ? .....Done !
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I don't know that seller, but according with your messages I wouldn't expect much from them if they are responsible for the replacement (and not the manufacturer). They having the item in stock and not replacing your defective unit, shows to me that they care more with themselves (and/or with the manufacturer) than with the customer.
If this was a single defective meter then you'd be right, but it might not be that simple.
Welectron is a middle man. If the manufacturer is giving Welectron the runaround and/or not accepting these meters for direct replacement then Welectron could lose an awful lot of money on this. These aren't cheap meters and there's a whole batch of them.
I'm sure Welectron is working on a solution.
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I never got the point why the seller has to repair or replace the sold out stuff under warranty.
For me the seller didn't build that tool or whatever other sold out stuff.
So, how can the seller repair anything? They are even not qualified or not registered for such of repairing.
For me the seller should only give a contact to an official service center and the service center should take care about the custommer.
This, too.
In Europe the manufacturer is responsible for repair/exchange, not the seller. If I buy something from a shop and it's defective I'm always told to contact the official service center. Anything else costs the seller money and that's not right, they're innocent.
In this case there's no official service center so it's a tough one.
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Anyone had the sense to 'Report to Moderator' so Dave gets to see all this ? .....Done !
Maybe he knows what's going on at the factory.
Who writes this firmware? They're the real responsibles... :popcorn:
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The seller probably is "innocent" regarding the causes of this problem. But it is responsible for the quality of the products sold. In Brazilian law both, the seller and the manufacturer, are held responsible. Normally the manufacturer is contacted first here, but is seems that in other countries it is normal contacting the seller first.
To the customer, who caused the issue (manufacturer, programmer or anyone else) does not matter. It paid for a working product and must have it working as specified in the expected lifetime.
And 4 months to replace a multimeter is not acceptable.
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I never got the point why the seller has to repair or replace the sold out stuff under warranty.
For me the seller didn't build that tool or whatever other sold out stuff.
So, how can the seller repair anything? They are even not qualified or not registered for such of repairing.
For me the seller should only give a contact to an official service center and the service center should take care about the custommer.
This, too.
In Europe the manufacturer is responsible for repair/exchange, not the seller. If I buy something from a shop and it's defective I'm always told to contact the official service center. Anything else costs the seller money and that's not right, they're innocent.
In this case there's no official service center so it's a tough one.
Actually, "EU law [...] stipulates that [the seller] must give the consumer a minimum 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) as a protection against faulty goods, or goods that don't look or work as advertised. "
More details on the Official website of the European Union at https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/dealing-with-customers/consumer-contracts-guarantees/consumer-guarantees/index_en.htm
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According to Dave Jones only 21 units are affected:
This only affected 21 units, and only units shipped by Welectron.
UEi did a new version of firmware and shipped that with units to Welectron (who direct order from UEi, they don't buy from me), unfortunately there was a calibration goof of some sort and those units had to be recalled and units replaced (or re-calibrated, but quicker to replace in this instance for those customers).
Everything is fixed now and all new units from Welectron will ship with the latest 2.00 firmware and problem solved.
So there should not be any meters left in the wild that cannot be upgraded in future, so no need for any advice on the firmware page.
I am one of the "unlucky 21" (sounds like a Tarantino movie :)) and I am in the same situation: Welectron has yet to provide a replacement (or any information regarding the issue) and does not reply to emails.
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In Europe the manufacturer is responsible for repair/exchange, not the seller. If I buy something from a shop and it's defective I'm always told to contact the official service center. Anything else costs the seller money and that's not right, they're innocent.
No, you got that wrong. The end customer has a warranty claim against the seller. Of course, the seller (shop, distributor...) can demand recourse from the manufacturer -- having the defective product fixed by the manufacturer or replaced at the manufacturer's cost. Many sellers try to avoid the hassle by directing customers to the manufacturer directly, but as a customer you don't have to accept that route; you can insist that the dealer makes things right for you.
Is this unfair to the dealer because they are "innocent"? I don't think so, it's simply part of their cost of doing business. Their margins need to cover the effort it takes to sell you the product, as well as the occasional effort for post-sales support.
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To be perfectly honest, you should undo the edit. You have 0 reason not to disclose who you talked with. The fact that the only thing they have said so far is to PM you to remove the names doesn't look great for them. Hell, edit your OP to state you were PMed to remove stuff
Mails between them are private conversation and one side cannot publicly divulge any information in those without consent of other party. If you do, at request you need to take it down.
Company info is public data, correspondence is not..
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the way it is...
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Hi Folks, hi @btspace,
We want to clarify this issue here.
We have been informed by the manufacturer of the 121GW a while ago that a certain batch shipped to us has been affected of a bug. This bug could lead to bricking the meter during a firmware update. We immediately removed affected stock from the website, but unfortunately, some meters of that batch have already been sold internationally. We sent an e-mail to affected customers not to update their affected meter and to await further instructions for replacing the device.
The affected 121GW are safe and fully functional, with the only exception that a firmware update should not be performed. Yes, we planned to replace the affected meters way earlier. However, this replacement programme is not a straight-forward process, as we not only have to replace meters within Germany, but also of customers outside of the EU that need special attention (including Norway and Switzerland). In cooperation with the manufacturer, we will cover all shipping expenses.
We had an important product launch that keeps us busy since beginning of June with a soaring increase of shipping and support volume. We hired new staff, but still had to shift priorities to keep (almost) everybody happy. We have many thousand customers worldwide, and thousands of new ones within the last few weeks, with the vast majority of them being really happy with us as we can see from the feedback we are getting.
This should not be an excuse, and I sincerely apologize for the experienced delays in this matter. We are not an evil company, but a team of engineers and tech enthusiasts, giving our best every day to keep you guys happy. We hope for your understanding.
We will send out the replacement meter to @btspace today in advance. The replacement programme for other affected units is almost ready. If anyone needs an urgent replacement upfront, please PM me with your order number and I will take care of it personally.
Best regards,
Marco
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Squeaky wheel gets the grease ;)
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I got a pm from Welectron to remove names in our email correspondence so that has now been edited out above. Sadly still no explanation.
Seems that noone has gotten their replacement yet. Atleast customers of Welectron.
Since starting this thread I got pm's from other owners that are still waiting for their replacement aswell.
Oh this is awful. So they were quick to (try and) protect themselves, but did not bother to attempt to make good your issue. Utterly awful.
Oh, and for those questioning why it is the seller who is responsible - it is because the only person the consumer has any form of contract with is the seller. I give the seller some money in exchange for an item that is fit for purpose, creating a contract between me and the seller. I have no agreement with manufacturer.
Personally I think selling warranties that cover the first 2 to 3 years of a product should be made illegal, since it should (in theory) add nothing to your rights in EU, and so is a form of misselling.
Anyway, back on topic: Welectron, shame on you
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The seller is responsible I am afraid. You can't just go to the manufacturer. I had this with ebuyer in the UK, they are hopeless. they sent me to Asus who sent me back to them. You have to go back to the person you have the contract with. This is why i use DPD to ship to Germany. Because if I use Royal mail, they give it to Parcel force, they give it to GLS who own them to deliver it in Germa'ny. GLS are awful and stuff goes missing. GLS won't talk to me and Royal mail will say they did their bit and passed it on. I am stcu in the middle. So I use DPD because i give it to them and they deliver it, either way they answer to me because my contract is with them.
Being a resseller I guess is not just about passing stuff on.
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Personally I think selling warranties that cover the first 2 to 3 years of a product should be made illegal, since it should (in theory) add nothing to your rights in EU, and so is a form of misselling.
Technically it is fraudulent (usury) to charge money for no counterperformance. I guess most of these warranties cover something otherwise not covered, but the wording is important and needs to be distinguished from an insurance, as a warranty is just a term to describe who needs to prove a good was not fit at which point in time.
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This, too.
In Europe the manufacturer is responsible for repair/exchange, not the seller. If I buy something from a shop and it's defective I'm always told to contact the official service center. Anything else costs the seller money and that's not right, they're innocent.
In this case there's no official service center so it's a tough one.
Sorry Fungus but this is completely wrong. At least if you are buying the item in question as an individual. (With companies things may get hairy because regular consumer protection laws may not apply).
If you are buying things as an individual, then it is the seller who is your point of contact in case of any problem covered by a warranty. They can't bounce you off to some sort of repair center or to the manufacturer - you have concluded the sale with them, not the manufacturer, so the warranty is their problem, even if they just ship it to the manufacturer for repair anyway.
Of course some shops will try to brush you off and contact a service center but that's not kosher and you shouldn't accept that. Even if there is no official service center it is always the seller's responsibility to honor the warranty.
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If you are buying things as an individual, then it is the seller who is your point of contact in case of any problem covered by a warranty. They can't bounce you off to some sort of repair center or to the manufacturer - you have concluded the sale with them, not the manufacturer, so the warranty is their problem, even if they just ship it to the manufacturer for repair anyway.
Of course some shops will try to brush you off and contact a service center but that's not kosher and you shouldn't accept that. Even if there is no official service center it is always the seller's responsibility to honor the warranty.
The last thing that failed on me here in Spain was a Benq monitor, it died after about a year. I called Benq, they brought a new monitor to my house the next day and swapped it.
It sure seems better than going back to the store that sold it to me.
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That is their choice and good that they do that. bBut the law does not make them do it.
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Although i have also been struggling very hard to get hold of welectron to buy stock for my shop. And for those who think welectron is "the" Eu distributor for EEVBlog, i have been doing this for many years before welectron but as there is a lot of custom in Germany i guess it made sense to have a German distributor too.
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Hi Folks, Best regards,
Marco
Marco!
What about stocking the DR Dee 5000 LCR meters?
https://www.deree.com.tw/de-5000-lcr-meter.html (https://www.deree.com.tw/de-5000-lcr-meter.html)
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Hi Folks, Best regards,
Marco
Marco!
What about stocking the DR Dee 5000 LCR meters?
https://www.deree.com.tw/de-5000-lcr-meter.html (https://www.deree.com.tw/de-5000-lcr-meter.html)
How much do they sell for? maybe I should stock them.
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@Dave, are you involved in this? Any update or background?
No I am not involved in this in any way. Welectron order direct from Kane/UEi, and Welectron are the one's who requested some change which was made for some units sent to them until it was discovered there was an issue.
I never got nor tested these units.
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I never got the point why the seller has to repair or replace the sold out stuff under warranty.
For me the seller didn't build that tool or whatever other sold out stuff.
So, how can the seller repair anything? They are even not qualified or not registered for such of repairing.
For me the seller should only give a contact to an official service center and the service center should take care about the custommer.
This, too.
In Europe the manufacturer is responsible for repair/exchange, not the seller. If I buy something from a shop and it's defective I'm always told to contact the official service center. Anything else costs the seller money and that's not right, they're innocent.
In this case there's no official service center so it's a tough one.
Cannot be further from the truth. In EU seller is responsible for warranty. If manufacturer offers warranty repair/replacement directly, it's just a good will. If seller sends you to manufacturer service, you have right to insist they do it themselves and seller has no legal right to refuse.
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Cannot be further from the truth. In EU seller is responsible for warranty. If manufacturer offers warranty repair/replacement directly, it's just a good will. If seller sends you to manufacturer service, you have right to insist they do it themselves and seller has no legal right to refuse.
Correct, this is exactly what I had with ebuyer. they sent me to the manufacturer and i said no and they had to oblige and sort it themselves.
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A common middle ground that avoids unnecessary shipping costs is the seller giving you the address of the service center for you to ship to, but they still handle the whole paperwork/ticket with the service center themselves so you never have any contact with them.
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@Dave, are you involved in this? Any update or background?
No I am not involved in this in any way. Welectron order direct from Kane/UEi, and Welectron are the one's who requested some change which was made for some units sent to them until it was discovered there was an issue.
I never got nor tested these units.
I didn't know they did a different version to yours/mine. How does that work? isn't this the EEVBlog meter?
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@Dave, are you involved in this? Any update or background?
No I am not involved in this in any way. Welectron order direct from Kane/UEi, and Welectron are the one's who requested some change which was made for some units sent to them until it was discovered there was an issue.
I never got nor tested these units.
I didn't know they did a different version to yours/mine. How does that work? isn't this the EEVBlog meter?
I don't recall the exact details, but IIRC Welectron put in a routine firmware bug report about some issue a customer encountered, and in fixing that Kane released a version and units that would have unintentionally meant forking the firmware for that batch of units. I realised this and put a stop to it, and it was limited to 24 shipped units or something, the rest of Welectrons stock was sent back for re-calibration and it wasn't an issue.
It could have been me who received those units, it was just that Welectron was in the order pipeline instead of me, so nothing really to do with Welectron in this instance, it's not Welectrons fault at all.
The exact circumstances behind it all are more complicated than it sounds. It's like a plane crash, several otherwise unrelated things had to go wrong at the same time to produce such an event.
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Ah right. I thought for a momont that welectron were having their own firmware developed.
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Just received the replacement 121GW from Welectron. Unfortunately no returnlabel so I have to pay for return shipping myself but I guess thats ok.
The new 121GW is running firmware 2.01 so there is atleast one newer firmware than the published 2.00.