| Products > Test Equipment |
| recent experience shopping for hobby scope in today's market. tek, rigol, ... |
| (1/10) > >> |
| argile_tile:
I went shopping for a used oscilloscope for hobby: you need it but don't want to give up parts money to have it :) This turned out way difficult due to availability, terms of sale, disposable electronics. I want to share some results. all 4 are great . waverate comes at a cost of price and inconvenience it is good for measurement, also bad for measurement, heavier, more likely to fail . B&K Precision: "Listed bandwidth is of little use if the scope can't trigger due to rise time." . none below have channel isolation (expensive handhelds do, but limits certain measures) (you'll need to make custom (opamp) differentiator per situation need, unless your rich) ? Is Tek just outdated and overpriced compared to Keysight and Rigol like Youtube says? . $ 600 Keysight EDUX1052A + certified in usa - 50 watts max - fan always spins . 7 lb, 12.5 x 6.5 x 5.1 (most compact build of all 3) - 150 VRMS (wall outlet) + better sales brochures (if your re-selling) - 7ns - 1Gs/s per channel (2G/s for both) + 100kpts ? 50? . says web based panel - unk if browser mod needed, or use benchvue + 50k svrate - 10x fast + > 100k wav/sec update (silgent 100k to 400k "depending on mode" (greedy spec given)) - upgradeable at factory ONLY - many features are "2G model only" + UART (blah) and i2c + 2 FFT mode (magnitude phase), dual window . unkown if it has color for waveform probability - acquisition 10ns, + on averaging 1-64k ? External trigger. (can be used as a 3rd digital channel at the front) . 3yr warrantee . extended warrantee expensive, includes only 1 ESD incident ? no wifi dongle (but may not need it - may work off-the-shelf) ------- . online help (by pdf snapshot) looks plain text mostly, but well done - NO courseware, no way to put (manuals) on your oscope + has nice learning kit (has courseware only for this) + free www help . https://github.com/Keysight - no salesperson ready, phone chase - sales called 2 days later - 2G model is on backorder - you can't get one "today" + Keysight sells well, the 2G is on backorder, used keysight sell . $563 Tektronix TBS1000C + lower total cost and lower dollars/year on hobby + certified in usa . 30 watts max + fanless design (love changing fans in your PC?) + 4 lb, 19 x 7 x 4.25 + 300 VRMS - both home (240) hvac and 3-phase (208) able + 2ns rise time (best in low budget class) (bandwidth ineffective if not trig'ed) + claims freq. accuracy + claims better triggering ability competitors, idk + 1Gs/s per channel - 20kpts (each channel) (40?) how limiting idk: 20k is ALLOT for "one capture". read about that before. if (tek, keysight, silgent) is limited by kpt for of (24hr capture of infrequent capture) is another matter entirely - 5k wavrate refresh can't catch as many glitches "visibly" (any rate is too slow to catch all glitches, however) - NO i2c spi hackr stuffs (apparently SoC supports, but not software) (higher models have) has nice demo boards but not easy to FIND on web ? tek claims real-time sampling others don't say. is defined by tek as "records all samples at once, stores in 'memory', then repeats" (does that mean ADC is 20kpt?) other brands say nothing about it tek oversampling supported also + dual window FFT , 2 FFT modes (dbV, RMS), dual window . full 32 measurements shown where taken on curve + acquisition 4ns, - on ave of 2-256 (is ok, no 16 channel i2c either) + 5 yr warrantee + Total Protection Plan best ; $32/yr to stay protected from "some incidents" (comparable to apple care plan is $80/yr) $32/yr to insure you can sell (you have a scope) when upgrade time comes; worth it (doesn't say how many drops or ESD, leaves that in air) - likely doesn't have color for waveform probability + tek's interface (has always) supports coarse/fine adjustment by nob + Wifi (w/usb dongle) "for courseware", seen only in tbs2000B ads (unk if off-the-shelf works) ------- + built-in help apparently (by snapshots in pdf) is graphical help can be individually enabled/disabled per topic - nice + courseware allows adding your own courses - so if you have info you like to have handy (say, forrest mims guides) ready on the scope w/o using PC 100M of courseware can be stored on the scope. scope also has built-in "introduction to osc" + has nice "demo boards", if you can find them on tek's site or google (they may not be for sale on website - may only come with special offers, idk) + free www help . some free online resources - ie software AWG/win10 . https://github.com/tektronix ? did not compare ecosphere (if ks has wider gambut of accessories / equip coverage) - person on phone nice but $80 shipping? oh well + Tek sells well, even old Tek scopes find buyers chinese scopes (mentioned quickly, not covered much) are good but "not as good". being lower priced makes them well attractive: but the trade-deficit factors say if your in usa they are "save a tiny bit now, cost you features and usa industry closures later" . $380 silgent sds1000X + certified in usa . 25W max (would be a plus but ...) - noisy fan problems, always running ? has 84 color for waveform probability, but NOT ON by default ? why ? has "menu transparency" again OFF by default + > 100k wav/sec - 400k waverate "depending on mode" (questionable if this is better than ks or just a greedy spec) . 5.5 lb, 5.91 x 5.28 x 5.91 xxxx 17 x 15 x 10 (largest of all 3) photos show it is not box shaped: the dimensions are WRONG - 3 yr warranty promised - but Amazon says "arrived broken on sale, refused to replace", "failed after year, failed after days" (rigol, silgen, f1nsr1, hantek, all really) - "channel isolated spec", but docs warnings conflictingly say NOT ISOLATED, damaged - 20Mhz +- 40% ... that's ALLOT of % "disclosed" what cond is 40% lost? always? - suspicious specs and warrantee -- help looks junky, screen text dump isn't even line formatted !! - no courseware (in english distributions) - despite linux arm ubu open claims is just as secretive as tek and ks . has ubuntu suse "domination ware" support ONLY (other linux are excluded) . www help is not much, however it's likely good in chinese . forwardly has linux support: ubuntu suse "domination ware" (other linux are excluded) . ok user's manual (not all asian scopes have this) ? Keysight DSOX1202G ? $1,650 keysight "expensive" is upgradeable (at what ransome, they are ruthless) + 200k wavrate/sec on DSOX model - upgrade factory only (not really optional) - no used G models - on backorder + uart, i2c, can, spi, ... (these are on SoC, supported by software) + demo board + sexier scope - but spec upgrades are really not allot for the money . $350 GW Instek GDS-1054B - not certified in usa . i like the way the hw "looks" . boards laid out clean (easy to read) and "less crowded" than others pcb trace lines wide & easy to follow . accessible to repair . power supply is simple not complicated - repairable + good fft - no i2c . ok user's manual (not all asian scopes have this) - no courseware (in english distributions) ? probably this is a great scope to have if in china or if ubucrat . $329 Rigol DS1054Z - not certified in usa + nice display / waverate - cost less than silgent + has i2c spi uart software built-in . does not stand out in any particular way except that it is "as good choice" for asian brands . ok user's manual (not all asian scopes have this) - no courseware (in english distributions) Summary: . comparison shows Tek has the best features for some buyers despite being cheaper than Keysight and more expensive than chinese branded scopes. . I'm budget minded but don't want "un-certified" built things . I figure Tek costs me $75/year, all hobby money out the window, after sale in 5 yr. with warranty to insure i have a unit to sell (defintely cost less than 2 units) . I figure Keysight costs me $121/year, money out the window, after sale in 5 yr. (this isn't bad - but it depends how high on the shelf the hobby is) . I figure keysight sells for more, but Tek is a strong seller after all. In[4]:= {(738+250+70),((738+250+70-450)/5),250/5}//N Out[4]= {1058.,121.6,50.} In[108]:= {(563+163+50),(563+163+50-400)/5,163/5}//N Out[108]= {776.,75.2,32.6} . I could definitely use the savings. My power source, AWG, part bin: are all under-stocked :) prices for good ones are enormous. (and that's before considering auto parts if the car dies) A few more shopping isms... I first looked for used. All were so close to new price? Why bother with the definite risk. (many were even marked "no returns" despite being a poor price choice). Two deals I found were "new opened" and "new in box" 15 yr old units. Ok if your flying in the face of "no warranty" with disposable technology (look for keysight power supply replacement: they are not for sale even for new units). But check my cost formula. When I go to sell I got a 20yr old unit and the buy has no clue whether it was new when I got it (a good deal if your never going to sell or willing to take the hit). as for sales, the chinese scopes recently made do find buyers. unsure about older models. suspect (which models) they sell for less than Keysight or Tektronix when sold used. (they cost less and sell lesser). as for china "linux support" claims: i am wary. installing "a particular ubuntu" to make a proprietary binary run is a gamble, timely, boring: ubu is "abandonment" (they kill software that WAS working), and hackers. As for linux / arduino - keysight and tek support (i2c) also (not in tbs1000c but tbs2000c). The chinese scopes don't support arduino (a product of china) except by "forum advertising name dropping". And Pi would take a very expensive scope to analyze (a ridiculous proposition unless you own the company and profits are high this year). I should say I'm not an "arduino hacker" and also don't believe low-end scopes i2c support would be good for debugging. It would be "doing it the hard way". It takes a full PC based software "to know much", which wouldn't be needed if wave forms looks good on a regular scope UNLESS it's a software issue: which is better resolved using software not a scope. Tek and Keysight mention linux and also have github downloads - they are not completely anti-linux. All of the above have "expensive much better models", none are from small companies. One last good note for Tek and cost saving. I watched EEVBlog and Signal Path (youtube) and noticed: they don't use the good (on loan) scopes unless showcasing (advertising) or the measurement requires it. They ususally uses the cheapest scope that is nice to work with. Much safer. This plays into the hobbyist need to "buy an expensive upgrade that is still miles behind 50Ghz". It's probably not a good idea to spend "ones total hobby budget" on a scope that "just isn't ground breaking". |
| tautech:
Wow, just wow......never seen someone overthink a DSO purchase so. :-// Many here will advise to get a $500 Asian scope and be done with it as for most features they leave western DSO's in their wake. A correction if I may: --- Quote ---$380 Siglent SDS1000X --- End quote --- Is discontinued. 2ch replacement SDS1202X-E 4ch replacement SDS1104X-E or 200 MHz model SDS1204X-E Please don't purchase precision test equipment from Amazon when instead countrywide distributor networks exist and provide better support. https://siglentna.com/how-to-buy/ |
| thm_w:
This is just all justification as to why you bought a Tek TBS1000. Which is fine, if you want to buy it go for it. But in terms of features per dollar its on the low end of whats out there. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-tbs1000c-released/ Also you claim Rigol is "-not certified in usa", which I doubt is true. |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: thm_w on February 23, 2023, 10:41:01 pm ---This is just all justification as to why you bought a Tek TBS1000. Which is fine, if you want to buy it go for it. But in terms of features per dollar its on the low end of whats out there. --- End quote --- Without knowing the OP's use case, there is absolutely no good advise to give. :) |
| Zenith:
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 23, 2023, 10:52:28 pm ---Without knowing the OP's use case, there is absolutely no good advise to give. :) --- End quote --- Exactly. The sensible answer might be a Hameg 20MHz 203-4/5/6/7 solid state scope available on ebay for about 50 £/$/€ or less. No bragging rights, but a serviceable instrument within its limits. |
| Navigation |
| Message Index |
| Next page |