Recommend mid-price oscilloscope

[lordvader88]

I have a Tektronix 2430A with a partially broke CH1, so time to start thinking and saving for some modern mid-level scope.

I a hobbyists, maybe some day more, but so its not for work. What are some I should be watching for, and what prices are mid-level scopes? Thanks, I know this gets asked a lot.

[ataradov]

Without knowing anything else - Rigol DS1054Z.

[tautech]

Have you given up on repairing the Tek already ?   

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tekronix-2430a-can't-figure-out-vertical-position-setting/

I think you can go quite a bit further without another scope in order to try and fix it or are you well out of your depth ?
Not everybody is around ATM, many are on hols so not all the help that's available here has yet come forth.
You need study the Service manual more, the clues on how to fix it will in there. 

[rstofer]

I have a Tektronix 2430A with a partially broke CH1, so time to start thinking and saving for some modern mid-level scope.

I a hobbyists, maybe some day more, but so its not for work. What are some I should be watching for, and what prices are mid-level scopes? Thanks, I know this gets asked a lot.

"Mid level" isn't helpful.  Compared to what?  If the top-of-the-line Keysight is, say, $150k, a mid-level scope might be $75k.  Somehow, I don't think this is what you have in mind.

Mid level to me implies something that costs a few thousand dollars.  As a hobbyist, that is out of my reach.  So, it gets down to 'reasonable' and that, to me, means something under a grand.  I am quite happy with my Rigol DS1054Z and it has a lot of fans on this forum.  There is a lot of bang for the buck and a comparable scope is at least 3x as expensive.  I paid about $400 for my DS1054Z and that's about all I wanted to spend.  It's a hobby, not a profession!

Do some searching around, avoid the threads that are hundreds of pages because most of the content predates the latest firmware, and see what you think.

Four channels is sweet for decoding SPI and more channels are always better than less.  Nevertheless, most of my scope usage is just one channel.  Until it isn't!

Unlocking the scope to get the 100 MHz bandwidth and decoding is well understood.  You wind up with a 4 channel 100 MHz scope with full decoding and expanded memory all for $400.  Pretty hard to beat.

I suggest you drive a stake in the ground for price and then see what's available.

[tggzzz]

I have a Tektronix 2430A with a partially broke CH1, so time to start thinking and saving for some modern mid-level scope.

Get rid of the unquantified adjectives and you might be able to formulate a useful starting point.

I know this gets asked a lot.

So, have you bothered to read the answers? If not, why should people spend their time on yet another thread on this subject - which you probably won't read.

Maybe this would help everybody.

[MrWolf]

Rigol DS1054Z and it has a lot of fans on this forum.  There is a lot of bang for the buck and a comparable scope is at least 3x as expensive.

Agree with fans part. Do not agree with "comparable" part. It's effectively a 1.2k memory scope for many tasks with many functions totally broken or awkwardly implemented. Unbelievably useless in sub-MHz region etc. There is nothing to compare with GW Instek, Siglent etc besides look and feel of the knobs. If you do not know or do not want to know any better its your choice, do not make it OPs problem.

Just few links to get the general idea:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-(ds1054z-ds1074z-ds1104z-and-s-models)-bugswish-list/msg584436/#msg584436
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/msg1091320/#msg1091320
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-how-to-get-_maximum_-positive-slew-rate/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-bandwidth/msg1097348/#msg1097348
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1074z-weird-signal-level-problem/msg563208/#msg563208

[Fungus]

Rigol DS1054Z and it has a lot of fans on this forum.  There is a lot of bang for the buck and a comparable scope is at least 3x as expensive.

Agree with fans part. Do not agree with "comparable" part. It's effectively a 1.2k memory scope for many tasks with many functions totally broken or awkwardly implemented. Unbelievably useless in sub-MHz region etc. There is nothing to compare with GW Instek, Siglent etc besides look and feel of the knobs. If you do not know or do not want to know any better its your choice, do not make it OPs problem.

Just few links to get the general idea:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-(ds1054z-ds1074z-ds1104z-and-s-models)-bugswish-list/msg584436/#msg584436
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/msg1091320/#msg1091320
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-how-to-get-_maximum_-positive-slew-rate/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-bandwidth/msg1097348/#msg1097348
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1074z-weird-signal-level-problem/msg563208/#msg563208

Have you really got NOTHING positive to say at all? Why do you even bother posting here?

How about mentioning that it's the best all-round scope for under $1000, and you only need to pay $400 to get one?

How about mentioning that most of the 'problems' you've identified are complete non-problems to the rest of the world? We've had entire threads where you've gone on and on at great length about some 'critical' problem you've discovered in the the DS1054Z and the rest of the world went "meh". 

How about mentioning that most of the "problems" you've identified also appear on other 'scopes, including GW Instek, Siglent, etc.

Lastly, how come you own a DS1054Z? If it's as bad as you claim then surely you should have sold it by now... 

[BravoV]

Lastly, how come you own a DS1054Z? If it's as bad as you claim then surely you should have sold it by now... 

We have seen too much, its never about that scope anyway, its all about his pathetic career life as programmer, the scope is just a venting tool.

[Karel]

I a hobbyists, maybe some day more, but so its not for work. What are some I should be watching for, and what prices are mid-level scopes? Thanks, I know this gets asked a lot.

Yes it has been asked before many times and the usual concensus here is that the DS1054Z (still) has the best
price/performance ratio for hobbyists.

How many people here have bought one? A lot.

How many people weren't satisfied and sent it back or sold it?  One or two.

But I don't care because I'm not affiliated to Rigol. Buy another brand if you wish and tell us if you like it.

For me, I'll never buy (anymore) Rigol stuff for work. I did it once and I regret it. For serious work buy an R&S, Keysight or LeCroy.
However, at home on my desk, next to my pc, sits a DS1054Z.
Not that I have so much time to do some hobby stuff. But because this little scope is so much fun to have and play with.
Specially when you connect it to a pc.

[BravoV]

How many people here have bought one? A lot.

How many people weren't satisfied and sent it back or sold it?  One or two.

How many people weren't satisfied, not going to send it back .. and yet .. keep whining and use the scope as social tool ?

We got one here. 

And if you think about it, that particular poor DS1054Z valued more than it should be, its pretty darn cheap I should say for it's functionalities. 

[tggzzz]

How many people here have bought one? A lot.

How many people weren't satisfied and sent it back or sold it?  One or two.

How many people weren't satisfied, not going to send it back .. and yet .. keep whining and use the scope as social tool ?

We got one here. 

Makes a useful counterbalance to the "rabid DS1054Z fanboys" that claim it is the only valid choice 

[Alex Eisenhut]

Isn't it strange how Rigol can build a better mid-level oscilloscope than factories can?

[nctnico]

I have a Tektronix 2430A with a partially broke CH1, so time to start thinking and saving for some modern mid-level scope.

I a hobbyists, maybe some day more, but so its not for work. What are some I should be watching for, and what prices are mid-level scopes? Thanks, I know this gets asked a lot.

The answer to your question is: 42

What kind of budget do you have? Bandwidth? Purpose (do you work with microcontroller or mostly analog circuits)?

[Fungus]

Makes a useful counterbalance to the "rabid DS1054Z fanboys" that claim it is the only valid choice 

Are there any of those? I've never seen one.

There may be a few people who say that warts and all, it's the only sensible choice in this price range unless you have a specific need for good FFTs or something like that.

Sure, it's not perfect. If it was perfect there wouldn't be any $1000+ oscilloscopes on the market.

But... you get a $1000 'scope for $400. What's not to like? 

[David Hess]

I am one of the ones that evaluated Rigol's oscilloscopes before the DS1000Z series came out and concluded that they were junk and that Rigol's lying marketing department was running the company.  So I never bought one and went with an ancient $80 Tektronix 2230 instead.  Later analysis of the DS1000Z series reinforced my opinion about Rigol and their products.

As far as lordvader88's question, we need a better definition of "middle level oscilloscope."  Maybe you have a budget range or application in mind?  The often recommended Rigiol DS1054Z is what I would consider a low end digital storage oscilloscope and I agree with rstofer that middle level could extend up to $20,000 or so depending on your point of view.

[tautech]

I am one of the ones that evaluated Rigol's oscilloscopes before the DS1000Z series came out and concluded that they were junk and that Rigol's lying marketing department was running the company.  So I never bought one and went with an ancient $80 Tektronix 2230 instead.  Later analysis of the DS1000Z series reinforced my opinion about Rigol and their products.

As far as lordvader88's question, we need a better definition of "middle level oscilloscope."  Maybe you have a budget range or application in mind?  The often recommended Rigiol DS1054Z is what I would consider a low end digital storage oscilloscope and I agree with rstofer that middle level could extend up to $20,000 or so depending on your point of view.

David, the OP is attempting to fix his Tek:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tekronix-2430a-can't-figure-out-vertical-position-setting/

You're no doubt more familiar with them than I am and some guidance would be appreciated.

[AndyP]

Any more clues on budget, or a spec?
Bandwidth, sampling rate, number of channels, mixed signal capability? Or just something as similar as possible to the Tektronix scope?
For a $600 or less I went for the Micsig TO1104 in preference to the Rigol, but both scopes go up to 100Mhz, with a 1Gsample convertor split across up to 4 channels, the Micsig is a slightly more expensive but portable with battery.

The next step up is the 2Gsample 2 channel 200MHz scope some of which can be had for ~$1200 or so, the Rigol 2000 series is a good example.
Moving up from there you get the Rigol 4000 scope,R&S HMO 3000 (Hameg scopes etc) if guess around ~$5000,
The highest I was interested in was the R&S RTM2034 or Keysight MSO 3000 series, at around the price level ~$8000 I found the R&S RTM2034 an nicer scope, so bought that in preference.

All prices are year old very crude estimates from memory, and converted from GBP.
For real prices check on line and for the more expensive scopes see what offers the reps have.

Check the 'scopes spreadsheet for other suggestions. A better idea of the requirements or budget might help I have know hobbyist who have scopes that range 1GHz bandwidth Keysight scopes , down to small USB RPi scopes.

[David Hess]

David, the OP is attempting to fix his Tek:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tekronix-2430a-can't-figure-out-vertical-position-setting/

You're no doubt more familiar with them than I am and some guidance would be appreciated.

I am very familiar with the 2440 series but I followed that discussion and did not have anything useful to add.  The posters are making suggestions that are on the right track.  I am sure I could find the problem in an hour but I would be doing what nctnico suggests in his most recent post using another oscilloscope to compare the circuits for channel 1 to channel 2 with a known low frequency input signal.  That should easily reveal at what point the channel 1 signal is corrupted.

As to the question of modern middle range digital storage oscilloscopes, the only modern DSOs I have studied recently are the Rohde & Schwarz models formerly made by Hameg which range in price from $1000 to $5000.  I am sure Rohde & Schwarz sees the lower price and perhaps all of them as entry level.

[tautech]

David, the OP is attempting to fix his Tek:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tekronix-2430a-can't-figure-out-vertical-position-setting/

You're no doubt more familiar with them than I am and some guidance would be appreciated.

I am very familiar with the 2440 series but I followed that discussion and did not have anything useful to add.  The posters are making suggestions that are on the right track.  I am sure I could find the problem in an hour but I would be doing what nctnico suggests in his most recent post using another oscilloscope to compare the circuits for channel 1 to channel 2 with a known low frequency input signal.  That should easily reveal at what point the channel 1 signal is corrupted.

Yes that obvious to most of us of course and just what I've suggested to him in another thread.

Of course scope newbies like the OP take the punt and buy something cheap not knowing what questions to ask a seller and ends up with only 1/2 the scope working as it should. Then of course they're somewhat limited with the gear and tools to progress further without some serious assistance. Most of us started there but have the  understanding of how to go about signal tracing along with the gear to do so.
This guy has a DMM and not much more and if the fault is in the analog input stage it shouldn't be too hard to find.
Like the old saying, buy a old scope but make sure you have another to keep it in working order.

[BravoV]

Of course scope newbies like the OP take the punt and buy something cheap not knowing what questions to ask a seller and ends up with only 1/2 the scope working as it should. Then of course they're somewhat limited with the gear and tools to progress further without some serious assistance. Most of us started there but have the  understanding of how to go about signal tracing along with the gear to do so.
This guy has a DMM and not much more and if the fault is in the analog input stage it shouldn't be too hard to find.

Like the old saying, buy a old scope but make sure you have another to keep it in working order.

+1 

PS : That last line is quote worthy. 

[tautech]

Of course scope newbies like the OP take the punt and buy something cheap not knowing what questions to ask a seller and ends up with only 1/2 the scope working as it should if they are lucky. Then of course they're somewhat limited with the gear and tools to progress further without some serious assistance. Most of us started there but have the  understanding of how to go about signal tracing along with the gear to do so.
This guy has a DMM and not much more and if the fault is in the analog input stage it shouldn't be too hard to find.

Like the old saying, buy a old scope but make sure you have another to keep it in working order.

+1 

PS : That last line is quote worthy. 

Thanks BravoV but just rereading it again I've realised I've left out another point. Added.

[lordvader88]

Well around $1000 I guess, my gaming GPU cost +$1100 and thats top of the line and I barely use it anymore.

So $1000 for a modern scope would make a nice tool/toy, and it could be 2nd hand too. Locally my chances of getting anything used are very very low. And I'd say local stores charge way way too much.

I see lots of reviews of scopes on the EEVblog, and I haven't watched many. Unlike DMM reviews there isn't usually a review of a few at a time, and labeled things like MID-LEVEL MULTIMETER SHOOTOUT.............which probably deals with "MID-LEVEL MULTIMETERS"

In 2 weeks I'm pretty sure I'm getting a Brymen BM869

[all_repair]

You are still saving up for your scope, which is about the same situation as mine - no immediate needs.  I figure there is no correct answer now, and the scope maybe a future scope that is yet to be launched or to be made.  The tablet scope that Mike recently reviewed is an interesting scope that can justify for my next purchase.  The field deployable feature is always high up in my priority list in evaluating tools.

[Karel]

Unbelievably useless in sub-MHz region

Can you elaborate on that? I just connected the scope to a 1KHz sine wave and it shows what I expected:
a 1KHz sine wave.

[nctnico]

David, the OP is attempting to fix his Tek:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tekronix-2430a-can't-figure-out-vertical-position-setting/

You're no doubt more familiar with them than I am and some guidance would be appreciated.

I am very familiar with the 2440 series but I followed that discussion and did not have anything useful to add.  The posters are making suggestions that are on the right track.  I am sure I could find the problem in an hour but I would be doing what nctnico suggests in his most recent post using another oscilloscope to compare the circuits for channel 1 to channel 2 with a known low frequency input signal.  That should easily reveal at what point the channel 1 signal is corrupted.

For the record: I'm suggesting to use only ONE scope to measure itself using the working channel. I've done that before...

To the OP: OK. Now we have a budget. What are you areas of interest? What kind of circuits do you plan to build?