Author Topic: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions  (Read 26762 times)

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Offline Verticon

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #175 on: July 12, 2020, 09:49:42 am »
Some quick results from my MSO5074 which I upgraded to a 5354. The measurements were made either with direct cable connection (1m of RG400) from the generator to the 50Ohms adaptor plugged on the scope or with measuring the signal with a detector after a power splitter just before the 50Ohms adaptor. The -3dB results vary primarily with the y-range settings of the Rigol and lie between 410 to 610MHz. Tendency wise the higher range settings seem to result in higher bandwiths.
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #176 on: July 12, 2020, 07:37:16 pm »
Both of the units we have exceed 460Mhz when using a 200Mhz sine wave at 2V pk<>pk the -3db is 1.41v at 460Mhz on one and 469Mhz on the other one, after calibration. Also using a Bodnar 40ps referencen is 755ps average 780ps peak
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 02:10:23 pm by Sighound36 »
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Online seronday

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #177 on: July 12, 2020, 08:26:46 pm »
IHere is what I observed as some major differences, and before any judgement can be made - as I really don't know what the proper convention is and if these observations have any relevance, can someone with experience in -3db BW measurements PLEASE chime-in

My original measurements were at 1Vrms at 100MHz as the 'base' before testing for the -3dB point

When doing frequency response ( bandwidth ) tests, the frequency of the amplitude reference level needs to be in the flat part of the response before the roll off starts.

The frequency for the amplitude reference level is usually chosen to be in the range of 100Khz to 10Mhz.

In the performance verification guide for the MSO5000 series, Rigol specify using 1Mhz as the reference frequency for the "Bandwidth Test".


Regards.
 
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Offline noreply

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #178 on: July 12, 2020, 09:28:04 pm »

In the performance verification guide for the MSO5000 series, Rigol specify using 1Mhz as the reference frequency for the "Bandwidth Test".


Regards.

Great !

That's exactly what's required - will do some tests with the verification guide guidelines soon.

seronday - Thank You  :-+
 

Offline Pulsepowerguy

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #179 on: July 13, 2020, 01:55:45 am »

Hello All. I am a lifetime user of (mostly Tek) scopes (going back to the 70's). I need a home scope so I did my research (many thanks to Dave!) and I just received my MSO5074. It has many nice features, but a couple of problems cropped up right away:
1) Channel 2 seems to be the only one that gets 8GSa (If I am to believe the display at the top), while channel 1 gets 2GSa; the other two channels get 4GSa. This is for one active channel. Is this bug about the displayed sample size, or is it a "real" bug?

2) Channel 2 has a gain error - its about 25mV lower then the other channels. I have re-calibrated it several times to no avail. |O

Has anyone else seen these things? I may have to send it back (ugh!)  :-//

Respectfully,
Tony
 

Offline neon416

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #180 on: July 13, 2020, 12:57:57 pm »
1) Channel 2 seems to be the only one that gets 8GSa (If I am to believe the display at the top), while channel 1 gets 2GSa; the other two channels get 4GSa. This is for one active channel. Is this bug about the displayed sample size, or is it a "real" bug?
I gets the same strange behavior after updating from 01.01.04.08 to 00.01.03.00.01.
The only CH1 gets 8GSa. CH4 or CH1+CH4 gets 4GSa. All over combination gets only 3GSa.


UPD: SORRY for Rigol))) It's my mistake. Samplerate segmentation is also based on sync input selection. I.e. if you select synchronisation from any channel this channel become active even if disabled in channel mode menu.

 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2020, 01:12:24 pm by neon416 »
 
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Offline Pulsepowerguy

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #181 on: July 15, 2020, 12:32:42 am »
neon416: I did not quite understand your message, but now I know what you meant. The triggered channel always gets the highest sample rate. Thanks! The manual does not make that clear at all.

Now, onto number 2):
The self-calibration process for this scope seems to be hit or miss. I have run it many times and channel 2 always is always off the most. I used GEN I to generate a square wave of  5Vp-p. I have tried using a BNC coax directly to each channel but have also used the probes at 1x to gate a live comparison of all at once. Attached are the results. Does anyone else get these results?
 

Offline noreply

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #182 on: July 15, 2020, 03:38:01 pm »
You most likely heard the saying ‘you get what you pay for’ right?

Well it sure applies well to ‘test equipment’ accessories.

I recently purchased a Rigol MSO5074 (full review in progress) and was kindly ‘loaned’ a Rigol ADP0150BNC – an inline 50 ohm Termination from DC to 1GHz – from Telonic (my go to UK Rigol Distributor)

I also had a ‘Amazon’ P57 device – also claiming to be an inline ‘load resistor 50 ohm’ with bandwidth from DC to 1GHz

I took some photos of BOTH devices (see below)

Here are some notable differences;-

Rigol

The male BNC connection is machined on a lathe – you can see the fine one piece construction.

Quality of ‘gold’ connection pin and socket is very good – the socket has 4 stress release slots.

Perfect fit onto the factory Rigol probes

The unit comes with protective ‘condoms’ for both ends

Resistance measurement is precisely 50.0 ohms (at room temp at my bench)


Amazon P57

The male BNC connection is ‘cast’ – you can see the ‘seem’ in the middle.

The tolerance is poor (compared to the Rigol)

The Female BNC is covered with plastic molding – easier to grip and push-on and clamp as well as remove.
 
The metal BNC inside is also cast – not machined.

The quality of the pin and socket are not as good as the Rigol – the ‘gold’ socket 3 stress slots.

Resistance measurement is 49.8 ohms (same room temp measurement conditions and meter as Rigol test above)



Unfortunately I was unable to do accurate bandwidth tests with the SVA at this moment in time – as awaiting BNC to SMA connectors (see photo - arriving soon)

I will post the Bandwidth Response for each of the respective inline 50 ohm terminators as soon as possible.



Conclusion (so far - pending BW testing)

You certainly get what you pay for.

If you have already spend $1000 on the scope and probes – don’t try to save a few $$ on cheap 50 ohm terminators.

The Rigol ADP0150BNC is a perfect fit for anyone requiring precision connector with a 50 ohm impedance.



Thank You Telonic for the review sample (I will be purchasing this)


EDIT: I noticed that some images which were posted with the original 'post' - have disappeared - perhaps a moderator can alert DAVE or whoever looks after server - to check the software / database - I believe this has been happening to other members with various attachments - not just photos
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 04:02:12 pm by noreply »
 

Offline noreply

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #183 on: July 15, 2020, 04:04:20 pm »
the missing photos from above post  ;)
 

Offline noreply

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #184 on: July 16, 2020, 02:34:05 am »
Just been playing around with ‘single’ capture mode with the MSO 5350

I wanted to see how sensitive the input stage is to RF pulses.

I formed a loop with the ‘earth’ wire on the PVP2350 probe – a poor man’s inductive loop (see photo)

Then set-up the MSO CH1 to a 5mv per div Voltage and 5ms per div Frequency

Moved trigger level slightly above the reference of CH1  (see photo)

Then set ‘single’ capture

Now I placed the Car Key Fob on top of the earth-loop on probe – and momentarily pressed a Key Fob button

Voilà – the MSO captured my Key Fob data (see photo)


This is great !


I then looked at the data structure – a preamble, 3 data and 1 stop pulse

I am not an expert on the data structure that most manufacturers use for the Car Key Fobs
- but I guess it’s some form of Manchester encoding?

Despite the ‘poor-mans-inductive-loop’ capture mechanism
– the captured data is good enough to decode. (see photos)

If anyone is interested to repeat this experiment
– then make a better ‘loop’ to capture the stray RF from the Key Fob.


You can then use the MSO’s serial decoding
– to look at the data transmitted
– not sure if Manchester decoding is supported by Rigol or Siglent?
I know some Keysight MSO do definitely support this.

So there you are
– your MSO is a very handy tool
– you just need to learn how to apply it to various things lying around that you would like to measure
– like Car Key Fob’s in my example
 
BTW – it’s possible to store this waveform
– and then use this data
– to perform a ‘replay’
– using the either of the built-in AWG channels.

Simply connect a small antenna wire (preferably at ¼ wave of the transmitted freq) to the 50 ohm terminated BNC output of the AWG channel you used
– and ‘play’ the waveform
– your car
– if in range should open its doors. (EDIT: Oops .. probably not if it uses rolling code ...)

Any further improvements / refinements  and  experimentation with the above is most welcome!

Please report your findings here.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 02:38:25 am by noreply »
 

Offline dustooff

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #185 on: July 16, 2020, 05:19:35 am »
Pulsepowerguy, some shots from my unit, 1 month out of the box. Haven't done any cal yet, just adj probe comp so far.
The thing that I'm trying to resolve, is why do my traces have the fuzzies, source for these shots was the probe comp output.
...
 
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Offline neon416

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #186 on: July 16, 2020, 09:59:49 am »
Now, onto number 2):
I repeat you measurements and get Vtops:
1. 2.479
2. 2.496
3. 2.508
4. 2.487

The worst case difference is about 0.4%. I think its not bad result for this equipment class.
 
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Offline Pulsepowerguy

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #187 on: July 16, 2020, 11:41:24 am »
Pulsepowerguy, some shots from my unit, 1 month out of the box. Haven't done any cal yet, just adj probe comp so far.
The thing that I'm trying to resolve, is why do my traces have the fuzzies, source for these shots was the probe comp output.

Dustooff: Those look quite good, but how about at 2uS/div? I used the built-in signal generator for my shots. As to the fuzzies, did you use averaging?

Now, onto number 2):
I repeat you measurements and get Vtops:
1. 2.479
2. 2.496
3. 2.508
4. 2.487

The worst case difference is about 0.4%. I think its not bad result for this equipment class.


neon416: your measuremnts look great, but what time base did you use?

I am finding that the settling time varies greatly from channel to channel. Ch1 is very fast while ch2 is slowest. The Tech Manager at Rigol North America has offered to send a replacement unit.   :-+
Crossing my fingers.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 11:46:06 am by Pulsepowerguy »
 

Offline neon416

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #188 on: July 16, 2020, 12:26:13 pm »
Dustooff: Those look quite good, but how about at 2uS/div? I used the built-in signal generator for my shots. As to the fuzzies, did you use averaging?
All measurements made in same conditions as yours) On the same signal and oscilloscope settings. Without averaging.

Impulse response of channels looks slightly different in part of oscillations. But amplitude of that still stay within ~1%.
But rise time of channels looks very close.
 
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Offline noreply

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #189 on: July 16, 2020, 05:18:51 pm »


Conclusion (so far - pending BW testing)

You certainly get what you pay for.

If you have already spend $1000 on the scope and probes – don’t try to save a few $$ on cheap 50 ohm terminators.

The Rigol ADP0150BNC is a perfect fit for anyone requiring precision connector with a 50 ohm impedance.



Thank You Telonic for the review sample (I will be purchasing this)


EDIT: I noticed that some images which were posted with the original 'post' - have disappeared - perhaps a moderator can alert DAVE or whoever looks after server - to check the software / database - I believe this has been happening to other members with various attachments - not just photos

OK - I have received appropriate connectors for the SVA - so can perform some BW test now.

Guess what??

 |O

Looks like there is not much difference between the Rigol and the P57  :palm:

Obviously from a mechanical point of view - the Rigol is miles ahead - worthy of the extra $$

BUT

From a BW point of view - they are pretty much identical - at least to 1GHz

So perhaps - there is more to inline 50 ohm probe terminators
- at least at the sub 1GHz frequencies
- quality of mechanical construction and exact value of the termination resistance (at least within 0.5 of an ohm) does not seem to make much difference with regard to the BW capabilities of the device
- they both seem to have the same (approximately -3.6dB) attenuation @ 250 MHZ and (approximately -4.4dB) @ 500MHz

Please see the attached response plots below

Interesting finding for sure   :-\


BONUS FINDING:

In the process of doing the SVA screen captures - there is a 'bug' in the annotation software.

You can clearly see the 'plot' colors (yellow and purple)

However - the Annotation colors - I chose yellow and purple for these - to be identical - the purple annotation color AFTER SCREEN CAPTURE - turns into bright green color  :(

Perhaps someone with similar SVA and latest FW - can verify if getting same result?

If so - hope Siglent makes note to 'fix' in next FW revision 
 

Offline noreply

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #190 on: July 16, 2020, 06:24:38 pm »
Once again - problem with attachments  |O

Here are the missing screenshots  :)
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #191 on: July 16, 2020, 08:18:11 pm »
Hello no reply

You have been a very  busy boy in the 6 weeks since joining with all these trails and investigations on Rigol and Siglent equipment, honestly do not know where you find the time to perform all of these tests and correlate the results with work and home life

Impressive throughput of small investigations,  envious of the amount of time you have for these tasks  :clap: great work ethic

One would seriously feel you would looking to take on Dave's mantle in the Europe possible even a UK pundit can you tell what next on the review agenda also what other projects  you are currently working on to the wee small hours.

With your ability to acquire respectable equipment almost at will I wonder if you are one of Tautech world wide secret squirrel network beavering away for the good of the T&E population  8)

Why not give a little background about yourself , work experiences and current projects pretty sure the guys would like some insight on what makes you tick and your ability to get the bit between your teeth.

With you superb work ethic I have to admit you do not strike me as a native Brit, simply as they would be down the pub  after the first  sideways step  :-DD

« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 09:47:14 am by Sighound36 »
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline noreply

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #192 on: July 17, 2020, 06:12:01 pm »
Hello no reply

You have been a very  busy boy in the 6 weeks since joining with all these trails and investigations on Rigol and Siglent equipment, honestly do not know where you find the time to perform all of these tests and correlate the results with work and home life

Impressive throughput of small investigations,  envious of the amount of time you have for these tasks  :clap: great work ethic

One would seriously feel you would looking to take on Dave's mantle in the Europe possible even a UK pundit can you tell what next on the review agenda also what other projects  you are currently working on to the wee small hours.

With your ability to acquire respectable equipment almost at will I wonder if you are one of Tautech world wide secret squirrel network beavering away for the good of the T&E population  8)

Why not give a little background about yourself , work experiences and current projects pretty sure the guys would like some insight on what makes you tick and your ability to get the bit between your teeth.

With you superb work ethic I have to admit you do not strike me as a native Brit, simply as they would be down the pub  after the first  sideways step  :-DD

Hey sighound36

Thank you for your kind words – not sure if this is a backhanded compliment or not – as I know you DO have a well-tempered sense of humor.

Yeah, I’m new to EEVblog as a registered member – but been browsing about for about 12 months.

I’m a victim of covid-19 (not medically – I’m fine I think?) as I am unable to continue with my normal work and am in essence working from home.

By doing this
– I can manage my own schedule
– and unfortunately have shifted my ‘day’ to ‘night’
– hence lurking and posting early morning UK time.


What do I do for living?

At the moment
– I am enjoying being semi-retired because of covid-19
– but I am a research scientist in microelectronics
– a bit of a mouthful , but it sounds good.

I have not been active in this field (I mean being at the cutting edge) for over 15 years, however I do projects and consult here and there
– usually by word-of-mouth introductions.


Why do I do investigations on Rigol and Siglent and perform all these tests whilst still having time for work and homelife?


Trying to be savvy with $$ and not having immediate ‘paying’ clients
– my choices in test equipment are limited to Rigol and Siglent, as are many other forum members on a budget.

Right now, I work from home and don’t have homelife (kids left nest) so decided to deplete my savings and finally treat myself to some ‘kit’ so I can rekindle some of my design aspirations I never could see through years ago.

I HAVE purchased ALL of the ‘kit’ I use from a UK distributor
– so no I am not part of Tautech’s secret squirrel network
– but if he does indeed have such a network
– I  am happy to ‘play’ with some new kit and write a review.


I have also taken member Elisia’s advice on how to best decide on which type of ‘kit’ to purchase
– especially when you really don’t know what is the best for your needs and don’t want to make the wrong decision.

Elisia suggested to ask your Test Equipment distributor
– to ‘test drive’ the kit you want to buy
– on a sale or return basis.

Fortunately my distributor was willing to do this with me :-+

I have committed to purchase an RF signal generator
– either a Rigol or a Siglent
– so they agreed for me to ‘test drive’ each instrument.

As a thank you for their willingness to do this for me, I offered to write an ‘as you go’ review on EEVblog
– so other members can possibly ‘see’ or have some further insights into these products
– possibly making their purchasing decisions easier.

Of cause
– if someone wants to buy a Rigol or Siglent product
– I would personally recommend my distributor (PM me if you are interested)
– but don’t want to overtly publicize sales related stuff in the forum posts.
 
Sorry but Tautech is already doing plenty of this
– so more from anyone else is not wise
– unless you are prepared to bring something to the table
– so every member here can benefit indirectly.


As far as Dave’s mantle in EU / UK
– this is not desired
– Dave does a great job already, and anybody who thinks it’s easy to do a decent review or teardown, they don’t know what’s involved for sure.
- Its bloody hard work!
– as Dave would say with his ‘OZ accent.


My superb work ethic?
 
Flattery will get you everything …

No , not really, I just feel bad if I got something I just did with my new ‘kit’ and after making some quick observations and screen shots
– for myself
– why not share it with others
– only takes a few minutes and indirectly documents your own findings for yourself as well.


Am I a native Brit?


Well, I don’t know what gave me away here
– but you caught me
– no not native
- although I have been here long enough to be passionate about politics and fight social injustices.
(Please don’t ask me about Boris – you I will have to start my rant …)



What’s on the upcoming review addenda?


Basically all the kit I have purchased
– so as I learn about the features and stuff you can do with these instruments, I like to make some presentations
– so everyone benefits.

Strong believer of pay-it-forward!

Hopefully will be reviewing SSG3021X soon (I need to either purchase DSG815 or the Siglent)

I have just received a GPSDO
– so will do a mini ‘review’
– great bit of ‘kit’
– in my opinion a must have device for any test lab.


Just got a replacement (Via Amazon) programmable digital attenuator
– there is a dedicated thread on this which I started
– my original was a DOA
– this second unit works
– but has broken switch
– so will complete this review soon.


Got the logic probe kit for Rigol MSO5074
– so will be doing ‘hands-on’ documentation as I discover its capabilities
– will start new thread for this.


I have also been given ‘on loan’ a Rigol DSK6K DemoBoard because I asked if I could borrow this and they said yes
(lesson to be learned – if you don’t ask , you don’t get opportunity to have)
– to have a baseline learning platform for the MSO5074 digital probes.

As I learn to use the logic probe kit myself
– I will document my ‘learning’ on a forum thread
– so others who are interested can view.


I also got a set of Sensepeek – PCBite probes
– a great bit of kit
– member Elisia has a set and using already, I still have not opened my box
– but it’s a important bit of kit for me
– as I want to test this probe kit for use with RF circuits.

I have RF amplifier with LPF on same PCB
– want to check the LPF frequency response by injecting RF signal (hence RF signal generator interest) with micro-probe and test response on SVA
– without powering the amplifier
– because the LPF is a passive component structure on the PCB.


If I am still ‘at home’ due to covid-19 after finishing all of the above stuff
– then I might also do some testing with the ADLM (Analog Devices Learning Module) Pluto SDR
– it is capable of doing some complex RF modulation
– so will synthesize a DVB-T  television signal
– and observe the spectral quality on the SVA
– nothing to prove
– just observations and deeper understanding on the use of the test equipment.


So, I hope the above has enlightened some of the members visiting this thread (I feel naked now) and at the same time quenched your thirst to know more about me and my activities on the EEVblog forum - more importantly, my mysterious endless supply of decent ‘kit’ , any secret association with tautech, aspiration to steal Dave’s mantle, and future projects have now been answered  :P

Sorry for the delayed response - I time shifted - my day starts at 3PM GMT - at least until I can get back to normal time - hopefully this weekend.

Cheers

EDIT:  Apologies for such a long - essentially 'off topic' post in this interesting thread - but I guess better than starting another thread instead  ;)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 09:30:42 pm by noreply »
 
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Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #193 on: July 17, 2020, 08:04:17 pm »
Most interesting post are always off topic ;)
 

Offline kehall

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #194 on: July 19, 2020, 09:57:28 am »
Quote
For all whose MSO5000 has over/undershoot. I have bought MSO5074, and from the beginning i had over/undershoot problem. I contacted Rigol support. They sent me all possible firmware versions and told me: make self calibration procedure for each firmware version we have sent to you. But nothing changed.

I decided to send my MSO to them. They have fixed over/undershoot problem, and calibrated the scope. They have also applied newest hardware fixes (also to built in signal generator).
They also changed HW version number to 1.01. I had 1.00 earlier.

matlipinski: What do your overshoots look like now at 50mV/div ?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 10:00:17 am by kehall »
 

Offline noreply

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #195 on: July 20, 2020, 06:31:03 pm »
Has anyone made any x-y plots with the MSO5000 series?

I noted that in the old Rigol 1054z - there is an option to display the channel(s) - the x and y as well as the x-y Lissajous figure on the SAME screen.

With the MSO5074 - I can easily select the x-y plot mode (see screen capture below) - but cannot display the individual channels at the SAME time.

Am I missing something - in driving the MSO settings?

Or is this no longer possible with the MSO5000 series - but still remains on the DS1054z range?

Also, with regard to the x-y mode on the MSO5074 - is it possible to select the individual channels - again I could not see how - only CH1 and CH2 default to the x-y plotting?

If this IS the case - perhaps they could have at least chosen CH1 and CH3 (or CH2 or CH4) - to allow the full sampling speed of each channel  :-[


I'm using the MSO to perform some testing of the Rigol DSG815 - and how stable is its internal clock.

The MSO (or any scope) with x-p plot capability is an excellent tool for frequency comparison and drift calculations.

An easy way to do this is to 'dial-up' precisely 10.00000000 MHz on the 815 and then compare to the GPSDO which has been stabilized and disciplined the internal OCXO.

Interesting results ...

If you are interested to know how to do this and calculate the drift in the respective clock frequencies using the MSO then go to the

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dsg815-testing-feedback-and-comments/msg3122450/#msg3122450

thread where I have posted the results and details of 'how-to' make such measurements  ;)

EDIT: confirmed posted results for above link
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 02:30:26 am by noreply »
 

Offline noreply

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Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #196 on: July 20, 2020, 08:10:22 pm »

matlipinski: What do your overshoots look like now at 50mV/div ?

Hello kehall,

Thanks for your PM

I just did some testing as you requested
– to see how the ‘standard’ PVP2350 probes with the 1KHz (internal) calibration frequency response looks like.

First of all I made the following settings on the MSO

Acquisition settings:
Hires mode ON
Fine ON
Measure Settings:
Precession ON
BW was set to 20MHz (did not make any diff when I switched to FULL BW)

I switched on counter – for CH1

I set cursor mode to tracking – so you can see some measurements

I set 50mv/div for Vertical and made a -150mV offset – to fit the display

I set the time base to 3uSec / div for one plot and then again at 20uSec – so you can see both ‘close-up’ and slightly zoomed out.


See the attached screen captures below


I did not ‘touch’ my probes – or even do a ‘self-calibration’ on the MSO – so its literally out of the box.

I do have the latest FW and my 5074 is now a 5354 – but this should not make any difference at all!

I did not check CH3 and CH4 but suspect they would be similar results
– let me know if you want me to check?
(I have not even opened the 2nd packet of probes – so never checked as yet)

You will note that the CH2 plot is ‘on top’ of CH1 (the yellow plot)
– for pretty much all of the time
– there is a slight bleed through of the yellow
– but this does not bother me and not worth calibrating.

Hope the above test / results are helpful to you.

Good Luck with your experiments.

Don’t worry too much
– the MSO5000 is a great scope
– you will be able to sort it out
– or Rigol will help you if indeed the unit is not performing to specifications.





 

Offline kehall

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: gb
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #197 on: July 21, 2020, 10:05:05 am »
I just did some testing as you requested
– to see how the ‘standard’ PVP2350 probes with the 1KHz (internal) calibration frequency response looks like.

See the attached screen captures below


Not sure what's going on with images, I'm not getting the pictures expected...

Anyway can't really see too well from thumbnails, but looks like no overshoots?

The probes won't make any difference to this concern, its more about the response of the scope (which compensation or self-cal can't fix). I could upload an image but not sure it'll work given everything. perhaps best link to dropbox...

ch1 and 2 50mV compensated... ch2 fine, ch1 overshooting

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pzda82cryolwhrx/2020-03-11%2015.14.18.jpg?dl=0

ch1 with compensation adjustment to try to remove overshoot

https://www.dropbox.com/s/el38jdvrrlb5olt/2020-03-11%2015.40.11.jpg?dl=0

So do you see anything like THAT? :)
 

Offline mawyatt

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  • Posts: 563
  • Country: us
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #198 on: July 21, 2020, 07:54:14 pm »

At the moment
– I am enjoying being semi-retired because of covid-19
– but I am a research scientist in microelectronics
– a bit of a mouthful , but it sounds good.

I have not been active in this field (I mean being at the cutting edge) for over 15 years, however I do projects and consult here and there
– usually by word-of-mouth introductions.

Trying to be savvy with $$ and not having immediate ‘paying’ clients
– my choices in test equipment are limited to Rigol and Siglent, as are many other forum members on a budget.

Right now, I work from home and don’t have homelife (kids left nest) so decided to deplete my savings and finally treat myself to some ‘kit’ so I can rekindle some of my design aspirations I never could see through years ago.

I HAVE purchased ALL of the ‘kit’ I use from a UK distributor
– so no I am not part of Tautech’s secret squirrel network
– but if he does indeed have such a network
– I  am happy to ‘play’ with some new kit and write a review.

As far as Dave’s mantle in EU / UK
– this is not desired
– Dave does a great job already, and anybody who thinks it’s easy to do a decent review or teardown, they don’t know what’s involved for sure.
- Its bloody hard work!
– as Dave would say with his ‘OZ accent.

What’s on the upcoming review addenda?


Basically all the kit I have purchased
– so as I learn about the features and stuff you can do with these instruments, I like to make some presentations
– so everyone benefits.

Strong believer of pay-it-forward!

Hopefully will be reviewing SSG3021X soon (I need to either purchase DSG815 or the Siglent)

I have just received a GPSDO
– so will do a mini ‘review’
– great bit of ‘kit’
– in my opinion a must have device for any test lab.


Just got a replacement (Via Amazon) programmable digital attenuator
– there is a dedicated thread on this which I started
– my original was a DOA
– this second unit works
– but has broken switch
– so will complete this review soon.


Got the logic probe kit for Rigol MSO5074
– so will be doing ‘hands-on’ documentation as I discover its capabilities
– will start new thread for this.


I have also been given ‘on loan’ a Rigol DSK6K DemoBoard because I asked if I could borrow this and they said yes
(lesson to be learned – if you don’t ask , you don’t get opportunity to have)
– to have a baseline learning platform for the MSO5074 digital probes.

As I learn to use the logic probe kit myself
– I will document my ‘learning’ on a forum thread
– so others who are interested can view.


I also got a set of Sensepeek – PCBite probes
– a great bit of kit
– member Elisia has a set and using already, I still have not opened my box
– but it’s a important bit of kit for me
– as I want to test this probe kit for use with RF circuits.

I have RF amplifier with LPF on same PCB
– want to check the LPF frequency response by injecting RF signal (hence RF signal generator interest) with micro-probe and test response on SVA
– without powering the amplifier
– because the LPF is a passive component structure on the PCB.


If I am still ‘at home’ due to covid-19 after finishing all of the above stuff
– then I might also do some testing with the ADLM (Analog Devices Learning Module) Pluto SDR
– it is capable of doing some complex RF modulation
– so will synthesize a DVB-T  television signal
– and observe the spectral quality on the SVA
– nothing to prove
– just observations and deeper understanding on the use of the test equipment.


So, I hope the above has enlightened some of the members visiting this thread (I feel naked now) and at the same time quenched your thirst to know more about me and my activities on the EEVblog forum - more importantly, my mysterious endless supply of decent ‘kit’ , any secret association with tautech, aspiration to steal Dave’s mantle, and future projects have now been answered  :P

Sorry for the delayed response - I time shifted - my day starts at 3PM GMT - at least until I can get back to normal time - hopefully this weekend.

Cheers


Interesting results on terminations, thanks for sharing.

Have a similar background (advanced research in analog, RF, MW & RFIC design) and retired 3/1/2019. Trying to build up a home lab and looking into the Siglent & Rigol scopes, and maybe AWG and PS, so been monitoring posts relative to such.

This site and Dave's reviews are a great resource. Any advice on these instruments is welcome.

BTW developed a few home calibration devices (not NIST but moderate cost and flexible) for DVMs (need to calibrate a couple repaired 34401As against a new Keysight 34465A), these will be made available on here after the due Friday PCBs are assembled and tested.

Best,
Research is like a treasure hunt, you don't know where to look or what you'll find!
~Mike
 

Offline noreply

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  • Posts: 279
  • Country: gb
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #199 on: July 21, 2020, 08:33:56 pm »
I just did some testing as you requested
– to see how the ‘standard’ PVP2350 probes with the 1KHz (internal) calibration frequency response looks like.

See the attached screen captures below


Not sure what's going on with images, I'm not getting the pictures expected...

Anyway can't really see too well from thumbnails, but looks like no overshoots?

The probes won't make any difference to this concern, its more about the response of the scope (which compensation or self-cal can't fix). I could upload an image but not sure it'll work given everything. perhaps best link to dropbox...

ch1 and 2 50mV compensated... ch2 fine, ch1 overshooting

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pzda82cryolwhrx/2020-03-11%2015.14.18.jpg?dl=0

ch1 with compensation adjustment to try to remove overshoot

https://www.dropbox.com/s/el38jdvrrlb5olt/2020-03-11%2015.40.11.jpg?dl=0

So do you see anything like THAT? :)

Increase your time base to 20uSec and then to 3uSec and tell me if this improves your response - post a picture if you can - so we can compare like for like
 


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