Author Topic: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions  (Read 91310 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RobbiTobi

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: de
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #325 on: January 25, 2024, 06:18:42 pm »
Hi guys,

could anybody help me out on finding an encoder replacement part for my MSO5000?
I have a defective dented encoder which is annoying me so much  |O

Many thanks!
 

Offline AxeMan

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: ck
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #326 on: March 03, 2024, 10:26:11 am »
Hello MSO5000 users,

I have several questions which are not answered by the manual.

1. Is it possible to switch off the sinx/x interpolation to see the raw sampled data points on the display?

2. It is my first oscilloscope and the behavior of cursors is strange for me. On MSO5000 the cursors stays
on the screen when I change the timebase, so when two event is far from each other and if I would like to
measure the time difference between them, that needs both event on screen. The result of this that the
accuracy/resulolution low and based how accurate can I put the cursor to the even.

I use often logic analyzers where (during time measurement) the cursors stick to the point where I put them,
regadless the zoom or timescroll. I zoom in, put the cursor to the first event, zoom out, I find the second evet
zoom in and I put the cursor to the second event. That produces a precise time difference measurement.
It is possible to use the MSO5000 cursors on the same way?

It it usual that the oscilloscopes' cursors work that way or it is a MSO5000 specific?



I noticed that the software update rate of this scope quite slow. Worth to communicate the problem
towards Rigol, do they usually care of this inquries of the users?

I appreciate any response,
Thank you.
 

Offline ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7375
  • Country: de
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #327 on: March 03, 2024, 03:38:46 pm »
1. Is it possible to switch off the sinx/x interpolation to see the raw sampled data points on the display?

See the chapter on "Display Control" in the manual. In the online copy I found, it's the first section of chapter 16, "Display Type".

Quote
It it usual that the oscilloscopes' cursors work that way or it is a MSO5000 specific?

It's certainly the standard behaviour of oscilloscope cursors to work in the screen region only; I am not sure whether some brands offer alternative modes. If you can use an automated measurement instead of cursor readout, that will typically take a lot of uncertainty away.

To precisely measure time delays between two events which you need to select manually, reading the delay time instead of using cursors may be more precise: Zoom in (on the time axis) onto the first event, position it e.g. on the central vertical grid line via the horizontal delay control, and take note of the Delay readout on the screen. (I.e. the time delay from trigger event to centered event.) Then repeat the same with the second event and take the difference of the two Delay times.

Quote
I noticed that the software update rate of this scope quite slow. Worth to communicate the problem towards Rigol, do they usually care of this inquries of the users?

You mean the response to user interactions like turning the position knobs? I'm afraid what we get there is the best the CPU can do. Compared to other DSOs it is "par for the course" -- not something to brag about, but some competiting scopes are doing worse.

Rigol is certainly aware of the limitations; but given how long the MSO5000 has been on the market, I would not expect that they can (and/or want to) improve this.
 

Online 2N3055

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7467
  • Country: hr
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #328 on: March 03, 2024, 05:24:08 pm »
Hello MSO5000 users,

I have several questions which are not answered by the manual.

1. Is it possible to switch off the sinx/x interpolation to see the raw sampled data points on the display?

2. It is my first oscilloscope and the behavior of cursors is strange for me. On MSO5000 the cursors stays
on the screen when I change the timebase, so when two event is far from each other and if I would like to
measure the time difference between them, that needs both event on screen. The result of this that the
accuracy/resulolution low and based how accurate can I put the cursor to the even.

I use often logic analyzers where (during time measurement) the cursors stick to the point where I put them,
regadless the zoom or timescroll. I zoom in, put the cursor to the first event, zoom out, I find the second evet
zoom in and I put the cursor to the second event. That produces a precise time difference measurement.
It is possible to use the MSO5000 cursors on the same way?

It it usual that the oscilloscopes' cursors work that way or it is a MSO5000 specific?



I noticed that the software update rate of this scope quite slow. Worth to communicate the problem
towards Rigol, do they usually care of this inquries of the users?

I appreciate any response,
Thank you.

On Siglent touch scope series you can do exactly that but in zoom mode:
You capture long, enable zoom, go to first event and position cursor there while magnified, go to the other event, do the same, and you have full accuracy.

Maybe MSO5000 can do something similar?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2024, 06:29:30 pm by 2N3055 »
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
The following users thanked this post: ebastler

Offline Verticon

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
  • Country: de
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #329 on: March 16, 2024, 09:35:40 pm »
Hello MSO5000 users,

I have my MSO5000 already several years but these days I used it the first time in "power analysis" mode in order to measure power factor etc. and observed a problem where I wonder if its a bug or if I am not able to use the scope reasonably. Unfortunately the manual is here not very helpful. When I connect e.g. a 1kHz sine signal to both channels 1 and 2 the "Measure" function window shows the correct phase difference of about zero. On the other hand the "power analysis" window shows roughly 7 degrees difference. This is independant if I change the frequency or amplitude of the signal.

The same behaviour shows up when I use 2 identical signals from the internal awgs with a zero phase difference. The strange thing is when I increase the phase difference of awg 2 from 0 to e.g. 40 degree both function windows show the identical value of roughly 40 degrees. It seems that the 7 degrees is not a simple offset but it successively decreases by increasing phase difference between the two channels.

The pictures below show the described behaviour. First picture with phase difference 0 and the 2nd with 40 degrees.

Has anybody made a similar experience or an explanation for this behaviour? I am sorry to say but with this behaviour the power analysis is useless. Only thing I can do is to write a python script and use the "Measure" values.
 

Offline core

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 164
  • Country: ro
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #330 on: March 23, 2024, 06:54:23 pm »
I tried it myself, with the internal generator but also with an external generator.
I tried different waveforms, amplitude and DC offset.
The results are the same, below 20 degrees the errors are getting bigger and bigger.
Below about 7 degrees it doesn't decrease regardless of the settings.
Doesn't inspire much confidence.
 

Offline passenger54321

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 5
  • Country: de
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #331 on: November 06, 2024, 09:05:16 pm »
Hi,

When trying to script for the statistics mode of my MSO5074, I ran into the following observation.
User issue or bug?

The goal is reading the noise level (Vrms) statistics for the different vertical ranges.
For completeness, I am using the following SCPI command which is not listed in the programming manual.
Not sure though if it is hidden for a reason

Setting the moving average window (in display: Measure -> Statistics -> Counter)
:MEASure:STATISTIC:COUNT
range probably [10..100000]
This one exists once for all up to 10 ITEMs

So, I am setting :MEASure:STATISTIC:COUNT to 10.
The issue I am observing is that the reset does not completely reset for larger time base settings e.g. 1 sec / div.
So after a
:MEASURE:STATISTIC:RESET
I am waiting until
:Measure:Statistic:Item? Cnt, VRMS
reaches the value of above COUNT, so I know the window is full.
(and yes, the Cnt comes back as a scientific E-notation float, but should be int. And this is not my main issue)
While waiting, I can see on the display that the first [1..5] values in the statistics box are still from the previous
measurement (from before the reset). The # is somewhat random; mostly 1
So, when next calling
:Measure:Statistic:Item? AVerages, VRMS
the average is wrong.

After every measurement cycle, I am completely erasing the measurement ITEMs like this:

:Measure:Statistic:Display OFF
:Measure:Clear ALL
:Channel' + str(active_channel) +':Display OFF

Is this behaviour known and understood? Any workaround available?
Thanks for taking the time to look into the topic.
And thanks to thm_w. As suggested, I am moving the entry to this topic
-Ulrich

P.S. with regards to
Presumably the workaround would be to read Vrms every trigger, run that ten times, and average the result?
-> Yes, this was my first approach. But, runtime.... I stopped it after three days, and still not complete. So, saw the statistics are much faster.
Next try would be to make statistic from RMS and RMS from the waveform reading. Howerver this is another issue, let me investigate it before I post nonsense.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2024, 09:08:28 pm by passenger54321 »
 

Offline Bill3745

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
  • Country: us
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #332 on: December 09, 2024, 09:15:29 pm »
Has anyone verified the amplitude flatness of their built-in AWGs?  The spec states +/- 0.5 db from a 1 KHz reference, but mine drops closer to 1 db when cranked all the way up to 25 MHz.  Both 50 Ohm (properly terminated) and HighZ were tested with similar results, although it seems to do slightly better on HighZ. I ruled out cable, terminator and scope by running a similar test with a known good external AWG.

Scope is a 5074 purchased in late '21 running on current 1.03.03 unpatched firmware.
Bill
A charter member of Test Gear Hoarders Anonymous and owner of a variety of Tektronix, Rigol, Siglent, HP, Wavetek and Fluke gear.
 

Offline sorenkir

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 147
  • Country: fr
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #333 on: December 11, 2024, 04:22:17 pm »
Hi,
I have checked generator 1 on my MSO5074.
The graph is below.
G1 @ 1Vpp, 50 ohm cable and termination, measured with a HP3403C.
Michel.
 

Offline Bill3745

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
  • Country: us
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #334 on: December 11, 2024, 04:42:28 pm »
Hi,
I have checked generator 1 on my MSO5074.
The graph is below.
G1 @ 1Vpp, 50 ohm cable and termination, measured with a HP3403C.
Michel.

Thanks so much.  Roll off looks fairly similar to what I am seeing and not to the spec of +/-0.5 db. Not a big deal as I wasn't expecting a ton of accuracy from the built in AWGs, but annoying that it doesn't meet their published spec.  Really just wanted to see if my unit was an anomaly.
 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2024, 04:52:02 pm by Bill3745 »
Bill
A charter member of Test Gear Hoarders Anonymous and owner of a variety of Tektronix, Rigol, Siglent, HP, Wavetek and Fluke gear.
 

Offline Bill3745

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
  • Country: us
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #335 on: December 12, 2024, 08:12:30 pm »
Hi,
I have checked generator 1 on my MSO5074.
The graph is below.
G1 @ 1Vpp, 50 ohm cable and termination, measured with a HP3403C.
Michel.
As a point of comparison here is a plot of my G2 with similar settings, but measured directly on the scope.
2460141-0
« Last Edit: December 12, 2024, 08:15:11 pm by Bill3745 »
Bill
A charter member of Test Gear Hoarders Anonymous and owner of a variety of Tektronix, Rigol, Siglent, HP, Wavetek and Fluke gear.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf