Author Topic: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions  (Read 23478 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SimonH

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
  • Country: ch
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2019, 09:46:52 am »
oops... As you might guess "decoding menu" here should be "SPI decoding menu"
 

Offline SimonH

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
  • Country: ch
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2019, 01:14:41 pm »
I just found another big one, I guess. Saving waveforms doesn't seem to work at all. When I save a waveform showing nice 3.3V SPI as .wfm, then press autoset w/o any signals on the probes, then load the  same waveform again, strange things happen. Once I just got a flatline, and one I got a part of the waveform, but with signal levels 0V-330mV instead of 0V-3.3V (probes were 1:1).
 

Offline SimonH

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
  • Country: ch
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2019, 10:35:32 pm »
Can anyone confirm that last one? When I store large wavefiles, (250MB) as .wfm, and then reload these, I constantly get very strange things back. As said before, parts of the waveform, but with amplitude wrong by a factor of 10 (happened once), and very often a waveform of 10 us length (original was some 100ms), an amplitude of some mV, and a frequency of exactly 4GHz (which means that it apparently assumes that the sample rate was 8GSa/s, and the samples are somehow alternated).

This one is quite a bummer...

Then, there is a minor one. Playing around with the segmented memory ("record"), I found that when displaying a data record, the delta-T reading in the record window is updated to the correct value only after modifying the x-scale.

Then, the decoding is still a bit unstable. But I found that when it shows most of the data correctly, but just some incorrectly, it helps to just slightly move the threshold(s) a bit. They were perfectly in the middle, and the wrongly decoded data did not have any glitches. But after just "touching" the threshold a little bit, the data showed up perfectly.

BTW: Is this the right place to place these things? I mean to remember someone stating that Rigol is reading this or someone is collecting this stuff for them...?

Apart from some minor things and the real bummer addressed here, the scope works very well in my opinion.
 

Online Martin72

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1474
  • Country: de
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2019, 10:53:21 pm »
Hi,

Quote
BTW: Is this the right place to place these things? I mean to remember someone stating that Rigol is reading this or someone is collecting this stuff for them...?

Boris (from Rigol EU) and I have a "deal" :

Waiting for the next update and then he will comment ( I post) the points mentioned in Post#1 of this thread.
He confirms some of then as "real bugs" they´d take notice about.
Will mean, this thread is known by rigol.


Offline SimonH

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
  • Country: ch
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2019, 12:15:51 am »
Great!

There is one more thing that puzzles me. Maybe someone can explain it. Not a bug, actually the opposite of a bug... somehow...

When working with the recording function, it appears that the scope does not have 200MSa of memory, but (a bit less than) 1GSa. For example, if I record with 200MSa, I get a maximum of four frames. And if I decrease the sampling depth, it always sums up to some 900 MSa. Only with very small frames, the number of total memory decreases. It really looks like all of these frames have the same granularity as if recorded as a single shot.

Do I oversee something here?
 

Offline SimonH

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 14
  • Country: ch
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2019, 06:59:31 am »
Ok, I think I've found why this is possible. It appears that when recording, not only the sample memory is used. I hooked up a 15MHz square and recorded as fast as it could. This resulted in a rate of about 15'000 recordings per second (if I believe the delta-T shown in the window). So, it appears to not segment the actual sample memory, but just keep moving the samples into "normal" memory.

Fair enough.
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w

Offline rowifi

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 33
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #56 on: December 20, 2019, 07:17:14 pm »
Well, I had a similar bug when I evaluated a 7000 scope. Memory saves and recalls were totally buggy and random. Maybe the usb stick compatibility, but it was one reason to reject the scope (among other reasons ).
Looks like the 5000 is still not suitable as a professional tool. I can't have flakey data decodes.
Still, I rejected a R & S due to a few of its bugs. What's the matter with these manufacturers. . We're at a race to the bottom in terms of quality just to get to market first.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 07:21:46 pm by rowifi »
 

Online Martin72

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1474
  • Country: de
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2019, 10:18:09 pm »
Today, I´ve noticed some "issues":

- Under circumstances (which are not clear to define) the acquisition field is greyed out, you can´t do any changes - Until you press the "Auto" button, after the automatic setup, the field is active again.
  Sometimes it´s only the acquisition mode, sometimes acquisition and memory depth ( you can choose between the values but it will always stay the same).
  Reading the manual, there are no situations described which can cause these effects, so I think it´s a bug.

- Trigger: The markers for trigger level/time are always in the colour of the first channel (yellow), it´s sometimes irritating (I know it from other scopes, if you trigger on e.g. ch2, the markers changes their colours to the colour of the selected channel.)

- Working with AC coupling: When I short the probe, there´s a offset on the channel - Disconneting the probe, offset disappears…

Martin
« Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 07:43:43 am by Martin72 »
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w

Offline Alfons

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 176
  • Country: de
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #58 on: December 31, 2019, 11:03:06 am »

Still, I rejected a R & S due to a few of its bugs. What's the matter with these manufacturers. . We're at a race to the bottom in terms of quality just to get to market first.

Only then buy a device until you are informed about the bugs. Do not rely on first reviews, but on user experience.
The cost pressure means that more and more manufacturers are packing their devices with software. Hardware is still expensive, so software is traded. And that often doesn't work.
Micsig, for example, shows with its tablet devices that there is another way. However, these devices are only equipped with the essentials and cannot do as much. But hardly any manufacturer dares to enter the market today with devices, which are not full packet with Software. It takes years for all bugs to be fixed. But not everyone like Keysight or Tektronix can keep a device on the market for so long. The Rigol will probably always remain a crutch, but you can still live with it at the price if you don't need everything. At R&S, you don't know where you're going. And the R&S devices would have the potential if the manufacturer is ready to invest. But I also don't understand how to deliver such a wonderful device with lots of errors.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2019, 11:06:35 am by Alfons »
 

Online Martin72

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1474
  • Country: de
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2020, 02:00:43 am »
Quote
- Working with AC coupling: When I short the probe, there´s a offset on the channel - Disconneting the probe, offset disappears…

"Today" tested again...it´s a generally thing when you are in the 1mV....5mV range ( or 10mV/50mV when using 10x Probe).
Measuring output ripple noise when the DUT´s claimed values lies in this range seems not possible with this scope - Makes me not happy...
Try it again with an extendend filter.


Offline sinpie

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: kr
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2020, 09:20:15 am »
I report a new bug. It may or may not be a bug, but I think it has to be fixed.

Search -> Threshold shows an analog input voltage even 10x attenuation is set.
(e.g. by 10x atten., 10mV is an actually 100mV. but when I set the threshold voltage, it shows 10mV as the threshold voltage)

So it confuses me whenever I set the threshold voltage.

%% A threshold voltage on the Trigger menu shows the right voltage.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 09:22:35 am by sinpie »
 

Offline Sighound36

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 302
  • Country: gb
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2020, 09:36:17 am »
Sinpie

Try using the precision button
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline sinpie

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: kr
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2020, 11:22:19 am »
What I mean was, the vertical location on the picture should be 1.6V, not 160mV, at the 10x probe. (I already set the channel as 10x)

Anyway, where could I find the precision button on MSO5000 then I'll try it.

Thank you.
 

Offline Sighound36

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 302
  • Country: gb
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2020, 01:49:14 pm »
Hi Sinpie

If you go into measure menu <> settings <> Mode then set to "precision" this engages all of the memory for a much tighter 'accurate' readings coupled with high resolution really helps.

Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline sinpie

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: kr
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #64 on: January 17, 2020, 03:55:32 pm »
I think the precision option in measurement menu doesn't matter with the thresold setting of Search menu(button), but I will try.
Thank you.
 

Offline sinpie

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: kr
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2020, 12:29:50 pm »
Hi Sinpie

If you go into measure menu <> settings <> Mode then set to "precision" this engages all of the memory for a much tighter 'accurate' readings coupled with high resolution really helps.

nothing has been changed after I set 'precision' on measurement.
Search->Threshold still shows 160mV for 1.6V on 10x probe and 10x attenuation setting on the scope.
 

Offline Sighound36

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 302
  • Country: gb
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #66 on: January 20, 2020, 11:48:02 am »
Hi Sinpie

I had a quick check of one of our two 5000's over the weekend and it reads corrects with the Rigol 500Hhz probe

Will check the other later in the week for you.
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline sinpie

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: kr
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2020, 03:00:29 pm »
Hi Sinpie

I had a quick check of one of our two 5000's over the weekend and it reads corrects with the Rigol 500Hhz probe

Will check the other later in the week for you.

Thank you.
Did you set attenuation to 10x in the CH menu when you press CH button? Voltage Reading in my mso5000 shows a correct value in all situations and conditions, but the reading is not correct only in Search>threshold.
Please let me know an CH attenuation setup and test procedure of your result.
I'm using 10x prove PVP2350 which is a default accessory.

Picture1. PVP2350 10x setting
Picture2. CH1 10x setting
Picture3. Test waveform (yellow, CH1)
              cursor(which shows 2.22V, correct voltage reading)
              measurement (Vmax1, shows 3V, correct voltage reading)
              Search>threshold(yellow dot line, which shows 234mV misreading)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 03:39:41 pm by sinpie »
 

Offline Sighound36

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 302
  • Country: gb
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2020, 05:02:34 pm »
Sinepie

Have you tried a different robe?

Due to both scopes being fully opened we use the 500Mhz Rigol version which is 10:1 only and 13pf

https://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-RP3500A-500MHz-Passive-Oscilloscope-Probe-p/rp3500a.htm

Will have a look for you
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 19375
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2020, 06:04:05 pm »
Hi Sinpie

I had a quick check of one of our two 5000's over the weekend and it reads corrects with the Rigol 500Hhz probe

Will check the other later in the week for you.

Thank you.
Did you set attenuation to 10x in the CH menu when you press CH button? Voltage Reading in my mso5000 shows a correct value in all situations and conditions, but the reading is not correct only in Search>threshold.
Please let me know an CH attenuation setup and test procedure of your result.
I'm using 10x prove PVP2350 which is a default accessory.

Picture1. PVP2350 10x setting
Picture2. CH1 10x setting
Picture3. Test waveform (yellow, CH1)
              cursor(which shows 2.22V, correct voltage reading)
              measurement (Vmax1, shows 3V, correct voltage reading)
              Search>threshold(yellow dot line, which shows 234mV misreading)
Question
With more waveform cycles on the display are the measurements then correct ?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Sighound36

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 302
  • Country: gb
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2020, 06:16:17 pm »
Sinpie

I have just the 7000  model, I have the same result as yourself, with the 10:1 probe the threshold reads just 10% of displayed value on a 10:1 probe. On a 1:1 probe the threshold is identical to the displayed probe value.

 
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline sinpie

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: kr
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #71 on: January 20, 2020, 11:52:28 pm »
Hi Sinpie

I had a quick check of one of our two 5000's over the weekend and it reads corrects with the Rigol 500Hhz probe

Will check the other later in the week for you.

Thank you.
Did you set attenuation to 10x in the CH menu when you press CH button? Voltage Reading in my mso5000 shows a correct value in all situations and conditions, but the reading is not correct only in Search>threshold.
Please let me know an CH attenuation setup and test procedure of your result.
I'm using 10x prove PVP2350 which is a default accessory.

Picture1. PVP2350 10x setting
Picture2. CH1 10x setting
Picture3. Test waveform (yellow, CH1)
              cursor(which shows 2.22V, correct voltage reading)
              measurement (Vmax1, shows 3V, correct voltage reading)
              Search>threshold(yellow dot line, which shows 234mV misreading)
Question
With more waveform cycles on the display are the measurements then correct ?

This is not a measurement issue. Measurement is correct. But when I go to a certain menu (which is search>threshold setting), setting voltage shows wrong value which shows a 'before' attenuation voltage.
 

Offline sinpie

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 7
  • Country: kr
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #72 on: January 20, 2020, 11:58:14 pm »
Sinpie

I have just the 7000  model, I have the same result as yourself, with the 10:1 probe the threshold reads just 10% of displayed value on a 10:1 probe. On a 1:1 probe the threshold is identical to the displayed probe value.

Thank you for help me :)
Since I don't have a 500Mhz probe, I could not able to test it.
 

Offline gaelellon

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
  • Country: ru
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2020, 01:55:03 pm »
Hi!
My MSO5072 (FW 01.01.04.08 HV 01.01) does not display in hdmi mode 720p.
Did anyone else have it?
 

Offline vr2whf

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 15
Re: REVIEW - Rigol MSO5000. Tests, bugs, questions
« Reply #74 on: January 24, 2020, 04:14:24 pm »
What is the noise floor performance? especially compared with Rigol DS2000A, Siglent SDS2000X?
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf