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Products => Test Equipment => Topic started by: Hugoneus on July 28, 2022, 11:30:00 pm

Title: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 28, 2022, 11:30:00 pm
Does anyone know where I can get the software and LCR option upgrade for the HP E4916A? If you have it or can point me to where I can get it, I will send you $50! :)
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 29, 2022, 03:16:55 pm
Anyone?  :scared:
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: gslick on July 29, 2022, 05:51:15 pm
I assume you already have the firmware file, and you need the "E4915A/E4916A Adjustment/Performance Test Program"? Was the Agilent Technologies Kobe Instrument Division somewhat of a black hole for trying to find information on instruments that originated there?

https://www.keysight.com/us/en/lib/software-detail/instrument-firmware-software/e4916a-crystal-impedance-meter--lcr-meter-firmware-update-1469077.html (https://www.keysight.com/us/en/lib/software-detail/instrument-firmware-software/e4916a-crystal-impedance-meter--lcr-meter-firmware-update-1469077.html)

Release Date   Version   Version Description
2001-07-01   2.13   E4915A/E4916A Firmware Revision 2.13

https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/ndx/9018-33747/miscellaneous/fw-0213.m (https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/ndx/9018-33747/miscellaneous/fw-0213.m)

What does the instrument use for the main microprocessor? I wonder if someone could do some R-E work on the firmware image to figure out how options are enabled.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 29, 2022, 06:16:48 pm
Yes, I have the firmware. But the software is no where to be found.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: free_electron on July 29, 2022, 07:21:27 pm
is there an e2prom ? 93cxx or 24cxx style ? dump it. you may learn something. same for the regular LCR meter.
most machines of that era are 68K based
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 29, 2022, 07:44:05 pm
is there an e2prom ? 93cxx or 24cxx style ? dump it. you may learn something. same for the regular LCR meter.
most machines of that era are 68K based

I intend to do a teardown of the unit and I will check for the EEPROM and report back. :)
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: gslick on July 29, 2022, 07:52:31 pm
most machines of that era are 68K based

Must be 68K based from these exception text strings in the fw-0213.m firmware file:

BUS Error
Address Error
Illegal Instruction; PC:
Zero Divide; PC:
CHK Instruction; PC:
TRAPV Instruction; PC:
Privilege Violation; PC:
Trace Exception; PC:
Line 1010 Emulator; PC:
Line 1111 Emulator; PC:

Maybe someone could analyze the 68K code and figure out what triggers these messages, in particular the "Bad LCR Option" message, and do something interesting with that code path.

Error: Bad Model No !
Error: Bad Serial No Length !
Error: E4915A not support Opt.%s
Error: Bad LCR Option No (opt.%s) !
Error: E4916A not support Opt.%s
Error: Bad EM Option No (opt.%s) !
Error: Bad Power Range Option No (opt.%s) !
Error: Flash memcpy write error !
Error: Fail Flash memcpy !
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 30, 2022, 03:43:39 am
Here is the main firmware bin file grabbed from the internal EEPROM.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: TheSteve on July 30, 2022, 04:09:31 am
Is there any other memory in there, perhaps a small 8 pin eeprom as was already suggested?
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 30, 2022, 04:13:08 am
Is there any other memory in there, perhaps a small 8 pin eeprom as was already suggested?

The bin file that I posted is from an EEPROM which is in a socket. This is probably where everything is stored.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: TheSteve on July 30, 2022, 04:27:54 am
OK, so it isn't really a 27C1024 as the file name suggests then I suppose.

There must be some main memory, likely a 28 or 29 series device.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 30, 2022, 04:40:50 am
OK, so it isn't really a 27C1024 as the file name suggests then I suppose.

There must be some main memory, likely a 28 or 29 series device.

Hi Steve,

It is a 27C1024 EEPROM. The file (.BIN) is what is stored in it.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: picburner on July 30, 2022, 05:03:34 am
The file you posted (Main_Firmware_AM27C1024.zip) is that of the bootrom which then passes control to the firmware contained in the Flash memory.
AM27C1024 is an Eprom not an Eeprom.
As TheSteve told you there should also be an eeprom somewhere (or a NVRAM?) as well as a Flash memory of course.
I converted the file you posted in Little Endian format so the text it contains is readable.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 30, 2022, 05:06:49 am
You are right. I didn’t pay enough attention, this is an EPROM. I will look on the board more.

Thank you both for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Daruosha on July 30, 2022, 12:20:41 pm
Hi Shahriar,

I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for (at least the latest firmware file):
https://www.keysight.com/us/en/support/E4916A/crystal-impedance-lcr-meter.html#drivers (https://www.keysight.com/us/en/support/E4916A/crystal-impedance-lcr-meter.html#drivers)

Have you tried contacting HPAK support?
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 30, 2022, 02:08:36 pm
So, Keysight support has no info on this instrument anymore...

Here is the photo of the board. The file I posted earlier is the content of the EPROM which is missing from the board right now (the PLCC socket). That is the bootloader as pointed out earlier.

There are 4 FLASH ICs also on the board, plus two SRAMs. But I could not find any other memory. Perhaps the options and firmware are stored in the FLASH memory together?

If anyone can crack this bad boy, I will include the instructions in the video about the unit and of course send you $50.   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 30, 2022, 03:02:03 pm
A few additional points:

There is a VEE software which is used for upgrading the firmware, configuration and (I assume) applying options, like Option 010 which is the LCR mode. However, that software is nowhere to be found. It uses the GPIB port.

But it should be possible in theory to upgrade the unit through the GPIB port...  :-//
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on July 31, 2022, 05:50:05 pm
I bought some sockets to look at the data through the flash memory and maybe download the content.

Has anyone had any luck with this?
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: picburner on August 01, 2022, 12:36:44 am
I have read the service manual and it says that the calibration/configuration data are stored in the flash memory.
So there are no other memories to look for.
The temporary data is stored in the two SRAMs, probably powered by the Supercap near the 10MHz TXCO.

The code that allows you to update the firmware (instrument side) is found in the BootRom AM27C1024. This code takes care of loading the firmware into RAM via GPIB (I suppose in more steps since the ram is smaller than the Flash), erase the flash and rewrite it.
One could study the code contained in the BootRom to write a Python program that does this job on modern computer.
Always reading the manual, I read that the original program only runs on the VEE 3.21 version, therefore an additional complication.

If you want to read the contents of the Flash memories without unsoldering them, you could try to keep the cpu in reset state and read the memories
connecting to the data/address buses as long as the hardware configuration allows it (CS/WR/OE signals should also go IDLE).
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: free_electron on August 01, 2022, 12:56:22 am
if it as a VEE program tht will be hard to find. you will either need a 9000 series computer running hp/ux or a windows NT 3.51 , maybe a windows 2000 box . good luck finding the vee runtime.
i scanned all the backups i have from the old FTP site and website and could not find anything for those machines (15 and 16).
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: free_electron on August 01, 2022, 01:01:29 am
hmm. whats under the flatcable ? you are looking for a 4 pin or 14 pin device 93cxx series , most likely national semi
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: gamalot on August 01, 2022, 02:00:26 am
hmm. whats under the flatcable ? you are looking for a 4 pin or 14 pin device 93cxx series , most likely national semi

Full of 78L/79L regulators in SOP8 package.  :-DD

---

I've double checked and didn't find any EEPROM chips, at least not on the top side of the PCB.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on August 01, 2022, 02:56:13 am
hmm. whats under the flatcable ? you are looking for a 4 pin or 14 pin device 93cxx series , most likely national semi

No luck. The configuration is likely in the Flash memories.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on August 01, 2022, 02:57:28 am
I have read the service manual and it says that the calibration/configuration data are stored in the flash memory.
So there are no other memories to look for.
The temporary data is stored in the two SRAMs, probably powered by the Supercap near the 10MHz TXCO.

The code that allows you to update the firmware (instrument side) is found in the BootRom AM27C1024. This code takes care of loading the firmware into RAM via GPIB (I suppose in more steps since the ram is smaller than the Flash), erase the flash and rewrite it.
One could study the code contained in the BootRom to write a Python program that does this job on modern computer.
Always reading the manual, I read that the original program only runs on the VEE 3.21 version, therefore an additional complication.

If you want to read the contents of the Flash memories without unsoldering them, you could try to keep the cpu in reset state and read the memories
connecting to the data/address buses as long as the hardware configuration allows it (CS/WR/OE signals should also go IDLE).

I think I should be able to read the flash memory directly... But I like the path of trying to find the commands for upgrading the unit through GPIB itself. But even then, the actual code would need to be discovered which is a function of the serial number...
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Aiy on August 01, 2022, 09:26:53 pm
For the options, what about those small switches at the top and bottom of your picture?
You could check where they connect to and try the different positions, only 256 combinations to do  :-DD

Best regards
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: gamalot on August 01, 2022, 09:42:03 pm
For the options, what about those small switches at the top and bottom of your picture?
You could check where they connect to and try the different positions, only 256 combinations to do  :-DD

Best regards

The service manual says there are no jumpers or switches that depend on any options.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: free_electron on August 02, 2022, 02:27:21 pm


I think I should be able to read the flash memory directly... But I like the path of trying to find the commands for upgrading the unit through GPIB itself. But even then, the actual code would need to be discovered which is a function of the serial number...
since this is the same lineage of the LCR bridge most likely it is simply a flag in the flash. you don't need the code or the key generation , simply set the flag.
in the lcr bridge there is no "key check" , only a flag check.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on August 02, 2022, 02:28:58 pm
First step would be to get the Flash from the instrument.

I’ll try it. :)
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Aiy on August 05, 2022, 07:28:13 am
Hello,
I've had a look around the archive.org "ftp site boneyard" filelistings for ftp.keysight.com 2015-04-04
https://archive.org/download/ftp.keysight.com/
https://ia600504.us.archive.org/28/items/ftp.keysight.com/2015.03.ftp.keysight.com.tar.txt

And ftp.agilent.com 2014-06-15
https://archive.org/download/ftp.agilent.com
https://archive.org/download/ftp.agilent.com/2014.06.ftp.agilent.com.tar.txt

searching for "E4915_16.exe" mentioned in the service manual, as well as other keywords I could think of. No luck.

The archives are >2010 so about ten years too recent

Best regards,
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on August 17, 2022, 11:27:54 pm
Hello,
I've had a look around the archive.org "ftp site boneyard" filelistings for ftp.keysight.com 2015-04-04
https://archive.org/download/ftp.keysight.com/
https://ia600504.us.archive.org/28/items/ftp.keysight.com/2015.03.ftp.keysight.com.tar.txt

And ftp.agilent.com 2014-06-15
https://archive.org/download/ftp.agilent.com
https://archive.org/download/ftp.agilent.com/2014.06.ftp.agilent.com.tar.txt

searching for "E4915_16.exe" mentioned in the service manual, as well as other keywords I could think of. No luck.

The archives are >2010 so about ten years too recent

Best regards,

Thank you for trying... Still no luck.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: free_electron on August 18, 2022, 05:14:42 pm
i have an older archive from the FTP site when they still were HP. found the harddisk yesterday. will check.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on August 18, 2022, 05:48:37 pm
i have an older archive from the FTP site when they still were HP. found the harddisk yesterday. will check.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: vaualbus on August 27, 2022, 09:58:16 pm
Could you put that too on archive.org is a too bad job to upload what I imagine is a big HDD of data?
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Miek on August 28, 2022, 01:00:20 am
Could you try querying ":TEST:INSTR:INFO:DATA?" over GPIB and see what comes back?
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: gamalot on August 28, 2022, 04:53:49 am
Could you try querying ":TEST:INSTR:INFO:DATA?" over GPIB and see what comes back?

Here is mine, nothing but the model number, serial number, and zeros.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Miek on August 28, 2022, 05:37:07 am
Excellent, thanks, that's the result I was hoping for :)

In theory, you should be able to send back ":TEST:INSTR:INFO:DATA E4916A,JP1KD00868,010,000,000,000" (ie: just swapping the first 000 to 010) to enable the LCR option.

A few caveats:
I'm basing this on reverse engineering the v2.13 firmware linked above. It's unlikely, but your version could behave differently.
The firmware does a bunch of checks on the string sent to verify the option strings, however it does let you overwrite the model (to either "E4916A" or "E4915A") and the serial number so type carefully.
There could be side effects I haven't noticed, so it's probably best to have a backup of any flash in there for minimal risk.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: gamalot on August 28, 2022, 05:59:08 am
Excellent, thanks, that's the result I was hoping for :)

In theory, you should be able to send back ":TEST:INSTR:INFO:DATA E4916A,JP1KD00868,010,000,000,000" (ie: just swapping the first 000 to 010) to enable the LCR option.

A few caveats:
I'm basing this on reverse engineering the v2.13 firmware linked above. It's unlikely, but your version could behave differently.
The firmware does a bunch of checks on the string sent to verify the option strings, however it does let you overwrite the model (to either "E4916A" or "E4915A") and the serial number so type carefully.
There could be side effects I haven't noticed, so it's probably best to have a backup of any flash in there for minimal risk.

Thank you very much!

Looks like this command doesn't work here, it beeps and shows "GPIB ERROR: -148" every time I send it to my E4916A.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Miek on August 28, 2022, 06:06:12 am
Hmm, I guess the value might need to be in quotes, so:
Code: [Select]
:TEST:INSTR:INFO:DATA "E4916A,JP1KD00868,010,000,000,000"
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: gamalot on August 28, 2022, 06:24:16 am
Hmm, I guess the value might need to be in quotes, so:
Code: [Select]
:TEST:INSTR:INFO:DATA "E4916A,JP1KD00868,010,000,000,000"

I tried adding quotes after the first failure, unfortunately it didn't work and caused "-102 Syntax error".  :-//
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Miek on August 28, 2022, 06:36:59 am
I tried adding quotes after the first failure, unfortunately it didn't work and caused "-102 Syntax error".  :-//

Ah, OK, thanks for trying it.
I had a closer look and it seems to be treating them all as separate arguments, so quoting each individually might work:
Code: [Select]
:TEST:INSTR:INFO:DATA "E4916A","JP1KD00868","010","000","000","000"
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: gamalot on August 28, 2022, 06:53:21 am
I tried adding quotes after the first failure, unfortunately it didn't work and caused "-102 Syntax error".  :-//

Ah, OK, thanks for trying it.
I had a closer look and it seems to be treating them all as separate arguments, so quoting each individually might work:
Code: [Select]
:TEST:INSTR:INFO:DATA "E4916A","JP1KD00868","010","000","000","000"

THANK YOU !!! IT WORKS!!!
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Miek on August 28, 2022, 07:27:53 am
Nice! Glad I could help :)
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: picburner on August 28, 2022, 07:28:28 am
Well done! Now all that remains is to be able to update to firmware Rev.02.13 :-+
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: TheSteve on August 28, 2022, 06:30:33 pm
Nice! Glad I could help :)

Absolutely fantastic work!
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: RolandK on August 29, 2022, 02:58:34 pm
This is really great. Just tried the command on a 4263b to get options 001 and 002, but it doesn't seem to work.

The 4263b has the hex-code read out in this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/i_ve-got-a-hacking-challenge-for-you-guys!/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/i_ve-got-a-hacking-challenge-for-you-guys!/)

There they just copy the content of the eeprom to get the options, but overwrite the serial number.

@Miek: what did you use for the reengineering? disassembler?
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Miek on August 29, 2022, 03:38:32 pm
@Miek: what did you use for the reengineering? disassembler?

Yep, Ghidra (https://ghidra-sre.org) specifically.
Title: Re: Reward $50 for HP/Agilent E4916A Upgrade/Firmware/Software
Post by: Hugoneus on September 04, 2022, 08:56:14 pm
Thank you everyone! Awesome work.

Someone sent me the commands for enabling the LCR meter but they didn't want a $50. So I donated it instead. :)