Rigol DHO800/900 pre-sales begin

[Njk]

Looks very interesting.

The IDC connector is a good thing. Easy to replace in case. But the big selling point is USB-C. What's the advantage of that in T&M equipment (other than "Apple philosophy")? I remember my old Tek scope had special compartment for Ni-Cd battery. Very convenient and no need for fancy connectors of the mobile phone type.

It's two times faster, so more heat will be generated inside even more constrained enclosure (and the TMDS transmitter part will contribute for sure). The laws of nature are difficult to bend. It must be of very sophisticated technology to last long.

Consider DS1054. XX years in production. Still a backlog of not fixed defects in the software. How long it will take for the new model to reach the same maturity? I wonder if I'll be alive at that time...

[jjoonathan]

The writing is on the wall: USB-C will replace barrel connectors + wall warts.

[MathWizard]

Is that 1.25GS/s per channel simultaneously?

No.
it is 1.25 GS/s divided per number of channels used. Single ADC. so 1.25G/ 625M/ 312,5M for 1, 2 and 3/4 ch respectively.. 
Also memory is same. 25Mpts and 50Mpts divided by 4.

So according to the datasheet, the HDO4000 series is also only 1 ADC, with 500MS/s for 4ch. They look nice too, but like the SDS2000HD series, they are too pricey to justify, for my hobby use.

If I didn't have any scope, these DHO800/900 or SDS1000HD series would be a great starting point.

Unless I want to do more of a side grade, I guess for now, I'm looking at getting a MSO5000 or SDS200Xplus series

[simone.pignatti]

nice size comparison

[2N3055]

Is that 1.25GS/s per channel simultaneously?

No.
it is 1.25 GS/s divided per number of channels used. Single ADC. so 1.25G/ 625M/ 312,5M for 1, 2 and 3/4 ch respectively.. 
Also memory is same. 25Mpts and 50Mpts divided by 4.

So according to the datasheet, the HDO4000 series is also only 1 ADC, with 500MS/s for 4ch. They look nice too, but like the SDS2000HD series, they are too pricey to justify, for my hobby use.

If I didn't have any scope, these DHO800/900 or SDS1000HD series would be a great starting point.

Unless I want to do more of a side grade, I guess for now, I'm looking at getting a MSO5000 or SDS200Xplus series

SDS2000X Plus did not stop being great scope by arrival of new 12 bit series. MSO5000 is also great value for the money with different focus.

Rigol is very aggressive with new models..
Looks like very eclectic choice of features... 800 is simplest, but 900 has more features and higher BW than 1000 despite having lower sample rate and small screen. .. Kinda weird choices without clear model gamut layout..

And also, they need to actually finish to production level FW for any of these...

[mawyatt]

And also, they need to actually finish to production level FW for any of these...

That's the one thing that has kept us from acquiring any Rigol instruments.

They seem to do a good job with the hardware, sometimes a really good job like these new 12 bit scopes with custom chip-sets, but don't seem to have quality firmware with loads of bugs, many of which should have caught well before release, and few and far between updates!!

We've been enticed by these new 12 bit DSOs and followed the development, and folks finding the host of bugs and such, with little efforts from Rigol for serious firmware updates, apparently they released well before any serious in-house test and evaluation performed.

Maybe this is there business model, develop good hardware platforms and employ early adopters as development product debuggers, saves in house engineering, test and evaluation costs, then only provide updates when they've collected enough information from the field users and dedicate some in house resources to fix the major shortcomings identified by their end users. Then they pass some of this $ saving on to the customer with a lower MRSP, sounds a lot like the much lower tier OEM "cheap type equipment" business model, and classic short term management, ship early as soon as it's kinda working, put $ in your pockets now, only fix stuff when absolutely necessary as it takes way from the present bottom line!

However, Rigol did, or paid a consulting group, to develop a custom 12 bit ADC chip set, so this hints at some long term thinking as why would anyone with short term mentality take on an expensive, long term, and difficult task as such??

Apparently this custom chip set is pretty good, so hats off to them for this effort!! Now if they can just replicate this effort with the firmware development and post sales support updates, they would have an outstanding product!!

Having quality & supported products from Rigol, Siglent and GW Instek, which seem to be the top middle tier OEMs, benefits all of us as these OEMs via for a sustained future and growth, and push each other for better future products!! So we're just "hoping" that Rigol's business model is not what we described above, eventually we would all suffer from this!!

Anyway, just rambling, had too many cups of coffee, need to dilute such with some brews

Best,

[Fungus]

And also, they need to actually finish to production level FW for any of these...

At least we know now what the engineers have been working on since the HDO1000 was launched. Maybe we'll se an update to go with this new launch.

IIRC from the other thread there were no showstopper bugs left in the HDO1000/HDO4000 after the last update, just a bunch of minor things.

[Martin72]

Rather the opposite, most of the listed fixes (there are not so many) in the description of the new firmware, I had not even noticed when I had a rigol to test, rather other...
But that doesn't matter for now, the models aren't even on the Western market yet, so a lot of good things may or may not happen until then.
Either way, the two models will cause a stir on the "500$ market", any bet.

[Anthocyanina]

does anyone else think rigol's designs have become uglier with each release? the front panel button shape, their layout, and alignment are so incredibly ugly and inconsistent, like they gave each section of the front panel to a different team, and those teams gave each button to a different person, and none of them talked to each other and just mashed everything together at the end  and even the BNC hexagon thing, on the 1000z the hexagons were nicely rounded on top and bottom and the channel markings also looked nicer, but now it's all sharp angles seemingly picked at random for everything in the front panel. the white ones don't look as bad as the black ones for some reason, maybe lower contrast between all the ugly edges makes them blend in with the background?

[2N3055]

And also, they need to actually finish to production level FW for any of these...

At least we know now what the engineers have been working on since the HDO1000 was launched. Maybe we'll se an update to go with this new launch.

IIRC from the other thread there were no showstopper bugs left in the HDO1000/HDO4000 after the last update, just a bunch of minor things.

Yes they have been working on many new products that doesn't work out of the box...
It is shame really because they have some promising stuff..

As for no real bugs.. You are kidding.. They are not even feature complete yet.. FFT misses half parameters for instance...

I hope they are done releasing now and put some real work to bring software to prod quality..

It is good for us to have more good choices...

[Old Printer]

Release the hardware and start the ROI flowing, then let the hungry users spot the bugs for them. Their MO is not hard to spot, it’s been that way at least since the 1054Z was released and we fell over ourselves scooping them up which in the long run seemed to work out for everyone. Think of what we have on our bench’s for under $500, now even $350. Hard to complain.

[Fungus]

Release the hardware and start the ROI flowing, then let the hungry users spot the bugs for them. Their MO is not hard to spot

In this case I think it was more that the bean counters wanted the HDO1000/HDO4000 out in November for the Xmas market.

Now it turns out they had this in the pipeline, too.

Some people will see this as a massive upgrade to the DS1054Z. Others will only ever see that the FFT could have some more parameters.

Is the bottle half empty or half full? 

Me? For $350 I'd say it's three-quarters full and grab me a glass.

Hopefully they'll have time to work on the firmware a bit now. I can't imagine they have any more models up their sleeves in the next few months and they should have the new chipset mastered by now.

[Nikki Smith]

Very interested in one of these. I've been looking to upgrade to a 4-channel 'scope, but wanted to wait for something in my price bracket with a modern chipset that (hopefully) is more responsive than the classics.

I contacted Rigol EU and they say their European website will have these new models for pre-order next month (mid-June) with delivery in September.

[CosteC]

DHO802 70MHz 2x 1.25GSa/s 25Mpts ¥1999 (285 USD)

We live in interesting times.

Yes we do.  I paid $1200 for a Tek TDS1012 2x 1GS/s 100MHz back in 2000.

I will risk statement we live in best times for measurement equipment for the masses.

Around 2010 Tek MSO2024B was piece of good stuff for 7000$ I think... 4x200 MHz 4x1GSps 4x1MS memory... Today I prefer DS1054Z unless I need 200 MHz... MSO2024B is so irritating to use, awful display, so little automatic measurements... Low noise however.

I think we have also TDS1024 from 2008 in work. I aged poorly.

[simone.pignatti]

I was looking through the DHO900/800 pages and realized that both series can be powered by a power bank using the USB-C port. If this is correct it will be interesting to understand what autonomy it will have with an acceptable power bank size.

[Fungus]

I was looking through the DHO900/800 pages and realized that both series can be powered by a power bank using the USB-C port.

Rigol's web page says "The Type-C power supply interface design only needs a mobile power supply to supply power to DHO800, making field testing possible."

The datasheet for the 800 series says: "36 W max. (with each interface, USB stick, active probe connected)"

So... about an hour at max current draw on a suitable 10000 mAh powerbank. Maybe 90 minutes with normal probes and no USB sticks. 

[Fungus]

The datasheet for the 900 series says: 48W max.

[Aldo22]

The video is nothing great, but it shows that something is moving. 

[Martin72]

DHO900 series have a internal awg and offer  bode plot - nice.
But the greater 1000/4000 models not - Can´t understand their model policy.

[simone.pignatti]

Official launch date for Europe September 8th 2023. Shipments start end of September.

[Martin72]

Hmm, I think I'll buy one, just for curiosity 

[mikeselectricstuff]

The writing is on the wall: USB-C will replace barrel connectors + wall warts.

Except judging from the video, in this case it seems to be instead of, rather than as well as an internal AC PSU. Yet another exernal brick.

[Fungus]

The writing is on the wall: USB-C will replace barrel connectors + wall warts.

Except judging from the video, in this case it seems to be instead of, rather than as well as an internal AC PSU. Yet another exernal brick.

You can make a monolithic device with a simple dab of glue. 

[Fungus]

Official launch date for Europe September 8th 2023. Shipments start end of September.

Two weeks! 

[Dacian]

I'm quite interested in this for the fact that is a low cost 12bit scope and it has an external power supply that I will not need since my house is powered with 2V DC so I can just add an efficient DC-DC converter. It is also quite small so will not take much space in my small lab.