Hameg HMO2022 2ch 200Mhz Mixed Signal Oscilloscope

[Axel1973]

Hi there..

im looking for a good decend universal oscilloscope with at least 2ch, ca 200MHz and plenty of (real) GSamples/s on every channel. Im not experienced with DSOs at all! But i dont want to buy shit i will regret in a year ot two. im willing to pay for good tools. however it should not exceed the 2-2K5 EUR pricepoint.

I searched forums, resellers, vendors and whatnat and found the new OWON 82xx,bad  tektronix reviews, hantek and whatnot . They all seem to have many flaws and other problems and i realy dont know if i can trust them. Since those devices are all software driven, the overall product quality raises or falls with the embedded firmware. So a propably good hardware (mabe like OWON) is nothing without the properly made firmware. And i realy dont know if and when there will be updated firmware freely available that will fix those flaws.

Id prefer a company that do a good job on UI,Workflow,Firmware updates by default.

Even i dont realy have any experience with Hameg DSOs, i found the HMO2022 and it looked kinda interesting to me. Even the price is pretty heavy compared to those no-name rice-cookers like OWON. But as a classic german instruments vendor like HAMEG  i would expect a state of the art Userinterface, good precision product, and free downloadable firmware updates.

Is there anyone out there who is experienced on HAMEG HMO2022 or similar Models and who can confirm or destroy my expectations on HAMEG DSOs? Any suggestions?

WHAT DOES DAVE RECOMMENT ON DSOs? (up 2500EUR)

Thanks!
Axel

[alm]

My guess is that Dave would recommend the Agilent DSO-X 2000 series . I'd also expect Hameg to deliver superior software and support compared to the younger Asian competitors, but I haven't seen their recent scopes in person. Not sure if they're in the same league as Agilent and Lecroy (I'd usually include Tektronix in this list, but they've sat on their ass for so long with their low-end scopes that it's hard to consider them competitive in this segment). Hameg used to be lower spec and less custom parts. No idea what happened since R&S bought them.

[0xdeadbeef]

AFAIK the HMO scopes were developed before R&S took over Hameg. So the main influence of R&S is that the Hameg stuff is now built in a R&S location in the Czech Republic and not any longer in Germany.

Anyway, we discussed the HMO scopes before, but unfortunately nobody here really tested them up to now
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=5305.msg69248#msg69248

You can also have a look here for a comparison with Agilent's DSOX line (German):
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/attachment/113595/mikrocontrollernet_Antworten_HAMEG.pdf

And a rather insubstantial German review with a view lores pics of the inside:
http://www.all-electronics.de/texte/anzeigen/43872/Serielle-Datenanalyse-an-I2C-SPI-und-UART-RS-232

[hacklordsniper]

Hameg can be trusted if i can judge by my experience with them until now. If i manage to get rid of my DSO-X crap im definately get one

[grenert]

The Hameg scopes look very nice, but I can't imagine dealing with only one vertical knob for up to 4 channels.

[alm]

I've used both scopes with a vertical knob per channel and scopes with a single vertical knob, and I don't think it's a big deal either way. Switching between the different styles is kind of a pain though, because you grab the wrong knob the first few times. Tastes may vary.

[EEVblog]

My guess is that Dave would recommend the Agilent DSO-X 2000 series .

For sure, I think it's superb value in the "upper class" low end price bracket. Anyone looking at spending $1000+ on a scope would be crazy not to consider it.
The MSOX2022A is just over $2KEUR I think

The Hameg scopes look pretty nice and are well worth considering. 4+8 channels 150MHz/2M for under $2K EUR
http://www.datatec.de/Hameg-HMO1524-Oszilloskop.htm

The only downside to the 2000X series Agilent is the crippled 100K point memory. Fine at the lower price points, but starts t grate a bit at the higher price points closer to the 3000X series.

Dave.

[kaz911]

Is there anyone out there who is experienced on HAMEG HMO2022 or similar Models and who can confirm or destroy my expectations on HAMEG DSOs? Any suggestions?
WHAT DOES DAVE RECOMMENT ON DSOs? (up 2500EUR)

Datatec.de has the HMO2022 on special offer WITH MSO plus different "free" decode options that would normally cost you about 600-1.300 Euro (So HO010, HO011, HO012 decode options free + HO3508 (MSO kit)
http://www.datatec.de/Hameg-HMO2022-Oszilloskop.htm for €17xx ex MwST.

the Agilent DSOX 2022a is there for €1632 ex MwSt.

HMO Gives you more sample mem and DVI out and pass fail test (as std) and a lot more Math - with the MSO offer you get 8 logic chl plus serial decode on both analog/digital. With the above offer I would go for the HMO2022. And you might find it cheaper than datatec.de. I do not know them - but I use their prices for checking others.. :-)

Agilent gives you more Wfps as and bigger screen

Good Luck - :-) Viele Grüße

-kasper

[Axel1973]

Today i found out that the OWON SDS8202 oscilloscope is also sold under the name of "PeakTech 1260" .

PeakTech as i know it, is provider of pretty much "low end" or "cheap" equipments. i never seen some high quality stuff coming from them. so even i did consider to buy me an OWON osci, now that i know its also selling as PeakTech it is absolutely NO OPTION to me anymore!!

to me that is proof enough to not buy me a OWON and to invest more money into something from a REAL Meassurement Equipment maker like HAMEG, Agilent, or whatever.

The Software and the Company behind the software makes the difference. A nice well done piece of hardware is NOTHING WORTH without the properly made firmware. it "may" be hacked one day, but i dont bet on that.

thanks for all feedback
c ya!
Axel

[kaz911]

Today i found out that the OWON SDS8202 oscilloscope is also sold under the name of "PeakTech 1260" .

PeakTech as i know it, is provider of pretty much "low end" or "cheap" equipments. i never seen some high quality stuff coming from them. so even i did consider to buy me an OWON osci, now that i know its also selling as PeakTech it is absolutely NO OPTION to me anymore!!

to me that is proof enough to not buy me a OWON and to invest more money into something from a REAL Meassurement Equipment maker like HAMEG, Agilent, or whatever.

The Software and the Company behind the software makes the difference. A nice well done piece of hardware is NOTHING WORTH without the properly made firmware. it "may" be hacked one day, but i dont bet on that.

thanks for all feedback
c ya!
Axel

Hi Alex,

thanks for all the sour grapes you send around regarding Owon despite you have not even tried it. Maybe it would be an idea to have some personal experience with SDS8202 before you start your rant. That ain't fair to Owon. Owon costs 1/3 of the Hameg - so you get what you pay for.

Maybe read what some of your fellow DSO expert germans say about the Owon SDS8X02 series. http://www.mikrocontroller.net/forum/mikrocontroller-elektronik?filter=owon

I do understand you want great quality equipment - that is fine - then buy it and be happy. The rest of us quite happy with our Rice-cookers :-) for now despite their issues.

[JuKu]

I have a mixed signal scope (old Agilent). I also have a USB logic analyzer (a ZeroPlus). If I would be buying now, I don't think I would by a mixed signal scope. I might buy the ZeroPlus again, but a higher end model, and i would by a digital as fast as I can afford scope, but I don't think there is good value for money in combining the two instruments, especially considering how good even entry level or one step above entry level logic analyzers are today.

[kripton2035]

Datatec.de has the HMO2022 on special offer WITH MSO plus different "free" decode options that would normally cost you about 600-1.300 Euro (So HO010, HO011, HO012 decode options free + HO3508 (MSO kit)
http://www.datatec.de/Hameg-HMO2022-Oszilloskop.htm for €17xx ex MwST.

-kasper

it's a shame they don't offer the HO010 option, but the HO011 and HO012 "only"
you can only process i2c,spi etc on the analog inputs, and not on the 8 digital inputs, that are better suited for this ?

[kaz911]

Datatec.de has the HMO2022 on special offer WITH MSO plus different "free" decode options that would normally cost you about 600-1.300 Euro (So HO010, HO011, HO012 decode options free + HO3508 (MSO kit)
http://www.datatec.de/Hameg-HMO2022-Oszilloskop.htm for €17xx ex MwST.

-kasper

it's a shame they don't offer the HO010 option, but the HO011 and HO012 "only"
you can only process i2c,spi etc on the analog inputs, and not on the 8 digital inputs, that are better suited for this ?

when I wrote it it actually said the HOO10 was included as well. But that seem to have been removed... :-(

[rf-loop]

This is very strange.
Also extremely difficult to find what is Hameg capture memory speeds.
Maybe this picture in Hameg manual is mistake?

Example in Owon (7102)
timebase 5ms/div and memory selected (only 1M) give samplerate 10Ms/s
and if "zoom" to 100us/div it do 500Ms/s
(of course if use 10M memory these are 100Ms/s and then 1Gs/s (van not rise 10x becouse 1Gs/s is maximum)

Why they put this picture on the Hameg manual if it can do better. Or is it so that it can not with windoved mode or with 1M memory.
look these pity samplerates!
nice scope, lot of features and thousend hongkong lights and dingle dongles... but many screenshots have unexpected high noise, why? Also this display is piece of crap. Tiny low resolution 256color museum display.
Menu selections look so bad that I do not want to my lab. Waste of working time if 80% about time go to surfing and finding settings.
I hhave experience about more than 35 years working with test equipmenst in different enviroments, lab, industry and  even hobby. Nearly first "good" oscilloscope was one old Solartron and then of course Tektronix. In work we need do "money" and time is expensive. can not exercise and play. These years on -70-80'th we have also in lab store some Hameg. No one did not want do any work with this piece of crab. Of course time have change, Hameg have change and without today experience with Hameg it still maybe ok, who knows. If you want good oscilloscope you can buy Rohde&Schwarz.

But I can use chinese noname hammer and no broblem... in my hammer no need read Stahlwille. I need tools what can do what I need in my work. I do not need names.

All know that best opinions come from peoples who have not used in real work any test equipments. Just lack of any experience but then they know what is good and what is bad. Most bad is Mercedes Benz if I ask people who never have drive 1million kilometer with one car.


Look these samplerates and used with text what talk about 1M memory and zoom.
(I hope it is mistake, maybe there is 10k memory in use)

[Mechatrommer]

did some exercise for fun...
there are around 60 cycles in the picture. zoomed showing 1.2 cycle. so...
for 640 screen... memory is (60/1.2)*640 = 32Kb
for 800 screen... memory is (60/1.2)*800 = 40Kb
for 1024 screen... memory is (60/1.2)*1024 = 51Kb

[rf-loop]

.? .? .?
-----------
100kS/s and upper window visual area is (maybe) 60ms?
100kS/s speed and 60ms time. In my mathematic it means 6000 samples.

zoomed window have 5MS/s and there time (visual part) is 1.2ms

How many samples it produce in 1.2ms.

I have only extremely low level mathematic and I think it is 6000 samples.

Of course it do not proof anything about memory size... but 100kS/s and 1.2ms time it is exactly 6000 samples.

I do not know how much Hameg have captured data stream outside of screen.

But if captured "time"  is example 20div (and screen is 12div) it is then 10000 sample.  (with these samplerates what Hameg screen show.)


Maybe selling peoples have selected littlebit mistake this picture to manual but it is still fun becouse just and only this point they argument 1M memory
or...  this 1M memory is just piece of bullshit - who knows becouse they do not tell
.
(I wonder why there is no any word about capturing speed with different memory sizes.  maybe this is just reason or not but...)



......keep fun.

[DaveW]

Speaking to the reps they're pretty insistent that it has full 1 meg memory on all channels, and 2 meg if you're running a four channel model using two channels. Will have a 2024 by the end of the week so I'll give it a test

[alm]

From reading the manual it appears that memory depth can be traded for update rate, so that may be what's causing this. I'm surprised that the screen shot shows two different sample rates for top and bottom view, is this just in-memory zoom or delayed timebase?

Also this display is piece of crap. Tiny low resolution 256color museum display.

Resolution could be higher, I agree. I don't see the issue with 256 colors, have you ever wished for better color accuracy on your scope? More important, how does the contrast and viewing angle compare?

These years on -70-80'th we have also in lab store some Hameg. No one did not want do any work with this piece of crab.

Back then Hameg was definitely a notch below Tek or HP (even HP was below Tek, until the DSO was introduced and leveled the playing field). Not horrible, but nothing special either. They appear to be aiming higher now they're owned by R&S.

All know that best opinions come from peoples who have not used in real work any test equipments. Just lack of any experience but then they know what is good and what is bad. Most bad is Mercedes Benz if I ask people who never have drive 1million kilometer with one car.

I don't think either of us has any hands on experience with this scope, so it does not seem very fair to judge.

[DaveW]

The viewing area isn't dissimilar from the hp ...x scopes, if you turn the menus off, certainly isn't a bad screen at all-and I do have brief hands on experience with a demo model, I'll see if I can borrow a camcorder and get some video taken over the weekend.

Have attached the comparison between the hp and hameg scopes I got from the rep, as there seems to be some interest in the scope