Rigol DS1000Z series (ds1054z, ds1074z, ds1104z and -s models) Bugs/Wish List

[DanielS]

DanielS -  I  stated 'FPGAS etc' to include all forms of reprogrammable media as opposed to hardware limitation.

According to the storage menu, there is 90MB free on the SoC's visible storage area on my DS1054Z. While this may not seem like much, you can cram an awful lot of math, other algorithms and even UI stuff in 1MB of native binary code and text strings if you are the least bit careful about using storage efficiently. I doubt the system RAM is anywhere near down to its last MB free either. I am mostly concerned about the FPGA because FPGA resources are far more limited and can disappear on a whim, not to mention that each extra logic block used means that many fewer resources available to route signals on and that many more signals that need to get routed, so even the smallest feature addition or alteration in an FPGA can cause major timing closure issues when the device is almost full.

As for re-writing the scope's firmware, the thought crossed my mind (and no doubt many other people here too) but that would be rather hard to do without a full board reverse-engineering to know exactly how everything is connected together. It certainly would be an interesting challenge to find out how much of the FPGA is left once all the ADC-rate features have been duplicated and see how much I remember about working with 1GSPS ADCs from 12 years ago on Virtex2Pro FPGAs.

[dcac]

DS1054Z  00.04.02.SP4

Odd behaviour when you try to save Waves after using the Recorder.

If you leave the Recorder On (stopped, but On) and try to save the currently displayed waveform the Recorder seems to restart and captures new waveforms (if trigger signal still is present) and then it seems to save the last recorded/displayed wave, although that wave seems somewhat corrupted if you load it back.

If you turn the Recorder Off and try to save the currently displayed wave you (most of the time) get "Function limited" when pressing OK in the Storage/Save/file menu.

I can't really understand why saving a 'Recorder captured' waveform would be any different from saving a '(normally) Trigger captured' waveform, at least it seems odd to have an "Recorder" function but you cannot 'save' the result ?!

Also, the HW frequency counter, when pressing Run/Stop to stop, the value show "<15 Hz",  I would probably prefer it to freeze the last running value instead (like the SW measured values) or perhaps just go blank, showing "<15 Hz" to me seems confusing.   

[kwass]

I can't really understand why saving a 'Recorder captured' waveform would be any different from saving a '(normally) Trigger captured' waveform, at least it seems odd to have an "Recorder" function but you cannot 'save' the result ?!

Also, the HW frequency counter, when pressing Run/Stop to stop, the value show "<15 Hz",  I would probably prefer it to freeze the last running value instead (like the SW measured values) or perhaps just go blank, showing "<15 Hz" to me seems confusing.

I've added these to the list.

[smgvbest]

Also, the HW frequency counter, when pressing Run/Stop to stop, the value show "<15 Hz",  I would probably prefer it to freeze the last running value instead (like the SW measured values) or perhaps just go blank, showing "<15 Hz" to me seems confusing.

Totally agree about that.  you would think that would be default behavior

[toyman]

Wish List Items:
A) Full screen X-Y mode, the current display is tiny.

• Increase X-Y display to full screen in square format;
• add option to hide original source channels;
• add persistence selection specifically for X-Y display (with zero persistence, some levels of persistence, infinite persistence with persistence reset button (so scaling and moving X, Y channels would not reset persistence, reset only via button)).

I was disappointed to find no persistence available in X-Y mode, so I would love to see that added as well.

[Datman]

About offsets: I've noticed the same problem on my new DS1054Z  00.04.02.SP4. I have been surprised of that, but I think the problem is due to offsets and tolerances on the error amplifier reading offset during calibration. I don't remember if errors on the 4 channels are similar or different: if they are similar, it could be an offset issue on the error amplifier.

I'm surprised anyone have had anything to say about trace noise... Do you all have seen the problem but you are satisfied for the price, or do you have no noise?

I've also received 4 (4!) probes with the x1/x10 switch defective: if I select x1 and I measure resistance between the tip and the BNC, I read a minimum 245 ohm resistance (the right value), but with a continous, random variation to 800 - 1000 ohm - open circuit! Until resistance remains in the kohm range, I don't see anything on the scope because input impedance is very high, but when resistance goes to infinite I see it clearly on the trace.

What are your experiences about it? I've written an email to the italian seller I bought it from. A few minutes ago he answered asking me ship to him the scope to test it...

[kwass]

I was disappointed to find no persistence available in X-Y mode, so I would love to see that added as well.

Added to the list.

[Fungus]

I'd like to see the menu system changed.

When you press a soft menu button at the moment it opens the corresponding menu on screen then you can:
a) Press the same menu button again to go down through the list of available options
or
b) Turn the multifunction knob to select an item from the options

When you have the item highlighted you have to push the multifunction knob to select it. This is where the problem happens - it's very easy to accidentally change the menu selection when you push the knob. This selects the wrong item and is very annoying.

I also think it's confusing to newbies to use a menu button to open a menu but then there's no obvious button to close it again (pushing the multifunction knob to close a menu isn't intuitive at all).


IMHO it would be much better (and more intuitive) to do it this way:

Push a soft menu button to open a menu, push the same button again to close the menu.
When a menu is open you can use the light blue up/down arrows to select an item in the menu, or use the multifunction knob if you prefer thatt.

When you have the correct item highlighted in the menu, push the soft menu button again to select the item and close the menu (or push the multifunction knob if you prefer)

This would be a very simple change to the firmware but really improve the user interface.

[electr_peter]

When you have the item highlighted you have to push the multifunction knob to select it. This is where the problem happens - it's very easy to accidentally change the menu selection when you push the knob. This selects the wrong item and is very annoying.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-1054z-detents-suggestions-for-stiffening/

I also think it's confusing to newbies to use a menu button to open a menu but then there's no obvious button to close it again (pushing the multifunction knob to close a menu isn't intuitive at all).

Press "Clear", it closes opened menus.

[Datman]

We know that there isn't a RTC and there will not be in the future.
The problem is that when we make a screenshot, the file will be numbered with the first number free among the pictures already on the memory. (A)
Instead of that, I think it would be better if the new file would be numbered with a number after the higher already present, also if there are numbers free because pictures have been previously deleted. (B)
Another option is a sequential number: the scope keeps logged the last number used and for the next picture he will give the next number. (C)

A): files on the memory: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8. The next file, the last, will be number 4...
B): files on the memory: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8. The next file, the last, will be number 9.
C): memory #1: files 4, 7, 8, 11
      memory #2: files 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 9
      The last file saved by the scope is number 11. The next file will be 12, wherever I will write it. It will be also possible to reset the counter or renaming the last file saved: after saving a file I can go to the rename function or do nothing.

[Lightages]

I have noticed an intermittent bug. I cannot reproduce it reliably. Sometimes, under certain conditions and when the trigger point is far off the screen, when trying to return to a normal view the trace is displayed as if has zero persistence at all. It appears like a trace displayed on a DS1052E. Only when the trigger is re-centered using the push function on the horizontal position button does the waveform regain its normal CRT like appearance.

[Fungus]

When you have the item highlighted you have to push the multifunction knob to select it. This is where the problem happens - it's very easy to accidentally change the menu selection when you push the knob. This selects the wrong item and is very annoying.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-1054z-detents-suggestions-for-stiffening/

I also think it's confusing to newbies to use a menu button to open a menu but then there's no obvious button to close it again (pushing the multifunction knob to close a menu isn't intuitive at all).

Press "Clear", it closes opened menus.

Sure ... but the idea of this thread is to fix things - get it done right and you won't need workarounds.

Those changes would be very easy to program - no fancy algorithms needed.

[kwass]

Sure ... but the idea of this thread is to fix things - get it done right and you won't need workarounds.

Those changes would be very easy to program - no fancy algorithms needed.

I think it would be better if the new file would be numbered with a number after the higher already present, also if there are numbers free because pictures have been previously deleted.

I've added these to the (growing very long) list.

[Datman]

I think the best would be numbering screenshots with a sequential number, so all my screenshots will have a different number (until I reset the counter) also if I use more then one USB memory or I copy files to a computer and I delete them on the USB memory: it will be impossibile to make a mistake, because ALL screenshots from my scope will have different names!

Obviously, it requires to write a few bytes in a EEPROM area in the scope...

[kwass]

I think the best would be numbering screenshots with a sequential number, so all my screenshots will have a different number (until I reset the counter) also if I use more then one USB memory or I copy files to a computer and I delete them on the USB memory: it will be impossibile to make a mistake, because ALL screenshots from my scope will have different names!

Changed.

[alsetalokin4017]

OK... I can't find mention of this particular error or "Bug", I apologise if it has been mentioned already. I've posted it in a couple of other threads and frankly I am surprised by the few responses I have gotten, which are essentially  "Oh, I don't ever use that feature so it doesn't matter". Well, it certainly  matters to me because I _do_ use the features and it is important to me that they work properly.

When the CH1 "units" are set to "A" for amps, and the CH2 "units" are set to "V" for volts, and the Math is set to do CH1xCH2, the Offset and Scale come up automatically correctly in "W" units for Watts. But this "W" unit is not passed on to the Measurements, neither selected from the LH screen menus or in the All Measure table. These units stay in whatever you've put in for the CH1 units, in my case "A". This seems like a "fail" in the software. I hope some other users can check my work to see if this is happening on all the scopes, and if so, I hope that it can be put on the list for Rigol to correct with the next firmware revision.
Please see the scopeshots below.

Scope is from new production, ordered on Feb 9 and just arrived to me on April 8 from TEquipment.
Software is 00.04.02.SP4, board 0.1.1, unlocked with no problem.

(I have also experienced some of the offset issues noted above and I think I have a hardware problem on CH4 that may require me to return the scope for a warranty replacement, but that's not related to this "bug".)

[pickle9000]

I think this thread would make a good video for Dave. Most of what's on here will never be addressed, is that bad?

My general feeling on this sort of thing is that it's very important to know the limitations of your equipment. The DS1000Z is a good example of a bit of gear that has had one major fault fixed and many small ones not. Should that stop you from buying it?

Everyone always want's things to be perfect, it's the engineering way. Reality is that price, quality and function are what makes the decisions. Rigol's decisions are based on money as are all companies. Things that change the bottom line will be fixed other "may be fixed" if it is found it can increase sales.   

[DanielS]

My general feeling on this sort of thing is that it's very important to know the limitations of your equipment. The DS1000Z is a good example of a bit of gear that has had one major fault fixed and many small ones not. Should that stop you from buying it?

I think it has been said many times that despite its many flaws and quirks, the DS1xxxZ are still great bang-per-buck scopes if none of their shortcomings are deal-breakers to you.

It is good enough for troubleshooting purposes, as a backup, secondary scope or budget/beginner scope. For people who need accuracy beyond reasonable doubt, data export that does not fail half the time for obscure reasons and takes forever when it does work, etc., they might want to look for a better primary scope.

[pickle9000]

My general feeling on this sort of thing is that it's very important to know the limitations of your equipment. The DS1000Z is a good example of a bit of gear that has had one major fault fixed and many small ones not. Should that stop you from buying it?

I think it has been said many times that despite its many flaws and quirks, the DS1xxxZ are still great bang-per-buck scopes if none of their shortcomings are deal-breakers to you.

It is good enough for troubleshooting purposes, as a backup, secondary scope or budget/beginner scope. For people who need accuracy beyond reasonable doubt, data export that does not fail half the time for obscure reasons and takes forever when it does work, etc., they might want to look for a better primary scope.

I picked one up to see what all the noise was about. It is a good scope, I find myself using it often on the bench. It's my only 4 channel so for that alone it's worth it. From a production testing standpoint I find it amazing how few out of the box failures they have. I'd love to have a tour of that production line, and see the testing procedures.

[kwass]

...
When the CH1 "units" are set to "A" for amps, and the CH2 "units" are set to "V" for volts, and the Math is set to do CH1xCH2, the Offset and Scale come up automatically correctly in "W" units for Watts. But this "W" unit is not passed on to the Measurements, neither selected from the LH screen menus or in the All Measure table. These units stay in whatever you've put in for the CH1 units, in my case "A". This seems like a "fail" in the software. I hope some other users can check my work to see if this is happening on all the scopes, and if so, I hope that it can be put on the list for Rigol to correct with the next firmware revision.

I've added this to the bug list at the top of this thread.

[bitwelder]

On my wish list:
- use a meaningful amount of decimals in the horizontal position display (e.g. the silly '0.00000000 ps' that also Dave commented on)
- use a darker tone of gray for deleted measurements, so they get almost invisible (as they are still 'live' measurements, my eye gets distracted by their updates)

[ManicMaurice]

- use a darker tone of gray for deleted measurements, so they get almost invisible (as they are still 'live' measurements, my eye gets distracted by their updates)

I'll go one better. How about when measurements are cleared when they are removed from the screen. 

[bitwelder]

I'll go one better. How about when mesurements are cleared they are removed from the screen. 

Sure! I wondered if there is anyone who actually likes the possibility to 'restore' a deleted measurement (and keeping it at the same original place). 

[kwass]

On my wish list:
- use a meaningful amount of decimals in the horizontal position display (e.g. the silly '0.00000000 ps' that also Dave commented on)

I've added this to the list.  We already have an item about clearing the deleted measurements.

[DanielS]

I'll go one better. How about when mesurements are cleared they are removed from the screen. 

It is really odd and somewhat annoying how the scope remembers deleted measurements and there is no way to get rid of them for good short of removing all measurements and rebooting the scope. When you take screen caps to attach to a document, it can be quite distracting to have irrelevant measurements still on screen.