Author Topic: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??  (Read 2515 times)

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Offline coromonadalix

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scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« on: October 01, 2019, 05:32:30 pm »
I need to do mostly  delta volts "and" delta "times"   math functions.

At least 100Mhz of bandwith minimum.

To calculate between 180 degree of rf differences signals  in frequency / time  and voltages difference(s) between them.

Say under 1k$$,    i was aiming at 500$    Ali ?  Fleabay ?  Rigol? , Owon ?  Bench type

thks  @ll
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 10:45:15 pm by coromonadalix »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200mhz ??
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2019, 07:56:32 pm »
Can I ask that you change the title and text to MHz ?
Mr Hertz thanks you in advance.

Channel # requirement ?

I'll check if the $619 SDS2202X-E can do this. No hacks required.  ;)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 09:14:09 pm by tautech »
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Offline Gyro

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200mhz ??
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2019, 08:09:56 pm »
Can I ask that you change the title and text to MHz ?

Agreed, it's hard enough teaching newbs to use correct terminology, you have no excuse - and it's not the first time you've been called on it!
Chris

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Online rsjsouza

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200mhz ??
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2019, 08:32:44 pm »
I know this can easily plot a 200mHz signal:
[attachimg=1]
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200mhz ??
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2019, 09:03:10 pm »
Can I ask that you change the title and text to MHz ?

Channel # requirement ?

I'll check if the $619 SDS2202X-E can do this. No hacks required.  ;)
Squeezing all the measurement types as Math in SDS2**2X-E doesn't do exactly what you require however a few measurement types, Statistics and Tracking cursors should give you the info you seek.
2x 25 MHz sines, different amplitudes ex SDG1032X
SDS2352X-E, 50 ohm internal termination not used (too hurried as things to do.)
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Offline coromonadalix

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2019, 10:46:00 pm »
Done  changed to Mhz    need only 2 channels for 27Mhz measurements

I never played with  Mso scopes .....  or done something like this to measure different timing(s) / phase(s) 

Checking an Hantek mso5000 100Mhz  or the 200Mhz on Fleabay,   are they good ?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 10:49:33 pm by coromonadalix »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2019, 11:59:45 pm »
Done  changed to Mhz    need only 2 channels for 27Mhz measurements

I never played with  Mso scopes .....  or done something like this to measure different timing(s) / phase(s) 

Checking an Hantek mso5000 100Mhz  or the 200Mhz on Fleabay,   are they good ?
The SDS1202X-E for $ 379 can do all this too, again no hacks required !
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Online rsjsouza

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2019, 12:56:35 am »
Done  changed to Mhz    need only 2 channels for 27Mhz measurements

I never played with  Mso scopes .....  or done something like this to measure different timing(s) / phase(s) 

Checking an Hantek mso5000 100Mhz  or the 200Mhz on Fleabay,   are they good ?
The SDS1202X-E for $ 379 can do all this too, again no hacks required !
A Hantek DSO5202P is US$294.00 at banggood. For that price difference, the Siglent is a much better choice.

https://m.banggood.com/Hantek-DSO5202P-Digital-Oscilloscope-200MHz-Bandwidth-2-Channels-1GSas-7inch-TFT-LCD-p-1259357.html?rmmds=search
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online nctnico

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2019, 01:07:44 am »
More recent GW Instek scopes (GDS-1000B series and GDS-2000E series) have phase measurement and free-form math.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline coromonadalix

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2019, 05:23:41 am »
Tempted by the mso5102b   for better 1 meg memory depth,  or an discontinued  5102b-mv at 2 meg of memory depth ??
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2019, 05:56:04 am »
I need to do mostly  delta volts "and" delta "times"   math functions.

At least 100Mhz of bandwith minimum.

To calculate between 180 degree of rf differences signals  in frequency / time  and voltages difference(s) between them.

Say under 1k$$,    i was aiming at 500$

If you're going to spend that much then the Keysight DSOX1102A is definitely the one to go for, at about $670.

A couple of steps down the ladder you get the Rigols, Siglents and GW-Insteks. I wouldn't go for Owon or Hantek, they might look good on bullet points but their firmware is rubbish.

If you can get the GW-Instek GDS1504B for $400 where you live, get that.

If you want to spend $500 then there's Siglents.

nb. All of the above are base models but they can all be hacked to enable all features of the top-of-the-range versions. Normally you just insert a pendrive and press "Yes!".

 

Offline coromonadalix

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2019, 03:43:42 pm »

Have to ask  the cal shop in my town  what brand they can do ??

thks for the suggestions
 

Offline tautech

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2019, 07:44:58 pm »

Have to ask  the cal shop in my town  what brand they can do ??

thks for the suggestions
Good Cal labs can do any brand but only might be familiar with certain brands used in industries that require yearly traceable calibration.

Most DSO's today require a universal calibrator connected to the scope and a PC and running the calibration script.
Check the DSO service manuals for the outline of the process and the equipment required.

The modern DSO remains stable and in Cal for many years with just occasional use of the inbuilt Self Cal feature.
Of the many DSO's I've sold over nearly a decade none to my knowledge have required a trip to the Cal lab.

Contact your provider and ask for a list of Cal labs they have contacted that can support their gear.
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Online nctnico

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2019, 10:48:39 pm »
Tempted by the mso5102b   for better 1 meg memory depth,  or an discontinued  5102b-mv at 2 meg of memory depth ??
Can they do the measurements you require? In general the Hantek brand doesn't have a good name where it comes to oscilloscopes.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline klmbk

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2019, 11:15:02 pm »
Speaking of these things... Can the Siglent SDS2202X-E (200MHz model from the SDS2000X-E series) be hacked to become the 350Mhz SDS2352X-E? Has it been done yet?  I think I would need something that is good for 1ns edges occasionally and I think the price of the 200Mhz model is interesting.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 11:16:44 pm by klmbk »
 

Offline rhb

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2019, 12:07:32 am »
The GDS-2000E line is easily hacked to 200 MHz as are some other Instek models. I have first hand experience comparing a hacked GDS-2072E to an MSO-2204EA using one of Leo Bodnar's 40 ps rise time BNC pulsers.  After the hack the 200 MHz result on the 2072 was identical to the 2204.  Both had 5% overshoot.  Which is better than the 7% of a Keysight MSOX3104T which I returned. Or the 10% of an R&S RTM3104 after doing a FW update from 1.100 to 1.300.  Reverting back to 1.100 did *not* restore the 3% overshoot of the demo scope as received.  But the FFT functions on both scopes are terrible.

The Instek has a very good SA function which they only sell in the MDO-2000E, but you can hack it into the GDS-2072E.  It is the only truly usable DSO FFT I've tried. My first DSO was a Rigol DS1102E. The FFT on  that is completely useless.

Unless all you want is a data acquisition device, avoid Owon like the plague.  The XDS2102A  will acquire 20 Mpts of 12 bit data at 500 MSa/s, but that's about all it is usable for.  The FW UI is so bad it's not really usable as a scope.

I've not played with a Siglent DSO.  I had the SA, but was not happy because of buggy FW. so I replaced it with an HP 8560A for about the same price. However, from your stated requirements, the Siglent SDS1202X-E certainly deserves a look at $379.  Phase is readily measured with the cursors and a Lissajous pattern.  And the SDS1104X-E is hackable to 200 MHz.  Or at least was.  There is plenty of discussion of the subject.  I've been meaning to get a Siglent and do a head to head with the Owon and Instek, but just have not gotten around to it.

Personally, I'm so dissatisfied with DSOs from any OEM that I bought a Tek 485 and just received yesterday a 7104 w/ 7A29 opt 4, 7A29, 7B15 and 7B10 plugins.  What a friend describes as a vintage Ferrari.

I'm  working on writing FOSS FW for Zynq based DSOs with the intent of replacing the crap factory FW.  I'm finally getting close to serious work on that using a Tek 11801 and four SD-26 heads to verify bit skew across the output of a DSP pipeline.  The acquisition of the 11801 led to a major digression into testing RF connectors in the time domain.  I want stackable math functions such as LeCroy offers and a lot more that they don't offer.  So I decided to write better FW.

Have Fun!
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Offline tautech

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2019, 12:27:31 am »
Speaking of these things... Can the Siglent SDS2202X-E (200MHz model from the SDS2000X-E series) be hacked to become the 350Mhz SDS2352X-E? Has it been done yet?  I think I would need something that is good for 1ns edges occasionally and I think the price of the 200Mhz model is interesting.
Yep, and back again. Done it only for proof that you can.  :)

Yep I really like the 2352X-E too, a great little DSO.
However hacking the 2202X-E leaves you with the PP215 200 MHz probes and you'd need to check their capabilities right out to 350 MHz to be sure they're suitable for SDS2352X.
This 350 MHz model is shipped SP2035 probes that are quite a bit nicer than PP215 probes yet still switchable but smaller and compensation is in the BNC termination.
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Offline sundance

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2019, 08:32:01 am »
@tautech:
Quote
Yep, and back again. Done it only for proof that you can.

Want to share your hacks here?  ;)
Are there HW mods to be done like with the SDS-2000X series?
My brand new SDS-2202X-E is waiting here to be "upgraded"...
 

Offline tautech

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2019, 08:01:46 pm »
@tautech:
Quote
Yep, and back again. Done it only for proof that you can.

Want to share your hacks here?  ;)
Nope, but others on the forum might help.  ;)
Quote
Are there HW mods to be done like with the SDS-2000X series?
Nope, again, no HW mods.
Quote
My brand new SDS-2202X-E is waiting here to be "upgraded"...
Nice.  :)
Like any of the options that are 16 digit hexidecimal strings, so are the BW settings.  :-X
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200mhz ??
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2019, 08:51:44 pm »
I know this can easily plot a 200mHz signal:
[attachimg=1]


It could plot a 200MHz repetitive signal too, if preceded by an analogue sampler :)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 08:53:33 pm by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2019, 08:58:09 pm »
Done  changed to Mhz 

Close, but could and should do better next time.

Sorry for the necropost but I concur with others that find such sloppiness indicative of poor understanding.

Next up: those that confuse time and conductance, the latter being measured in Siemens, S.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 
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Offline sundance

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2019, 07:43:31 am »
@tautech:
Sorry, my bad. Didn't intend to embarras you. I promise to read more carefully next time, especially people's profile...  ;)
(But I'm trying anyway to follow your subtle clues...)
 

Offline Chappy1978

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Re: scope suggestion, who could be "cough"hacked to 200Mhz ??
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2020, 06:36:53 pm »
I just wanted to submit that the python program works for the SDS2202X-E Software Version 2.1.1.1.17 R6
First I did the manual memory dump explained here in the forum.
Next I manually entered in the 16 byte hex codes the program produced to get the AWG, MSO, WIFI to work. Then I also used the 300M code to upgrade to the SDS2352X-E. That needed to be entered in through the SCPI command line on the web interface. Using the MCBD command. Then I checked to make sure the command set by using MCBD?

Python Code: https://repl.it/repls/TangibleBulkyExpertise

import hashlib

SCOPEID = 'XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX'
SN      = 'SDSXXXXXXXXXXX'
Model   = 'SDS2000X-E'
          # 'SDS1000X-E', 'SDS2000X-E', 'SDS2000X+', 'SDS5000X', 'ZODIAC-'

bwopt = ('25M', '40M', '50M', '60M', '70M', '100M', '150M', '200M', '250M', '300M', '350M', '500M', '750M', '1000M', 'MAX')
otheropt = ('AWG', 'WIFI', 'MSO', 'FLX', 'CFD', 'I2S', '1553', 'FG', '16LA')

hashkey = '5zao9lyua01pp7hjzm3orcq90mds63z6zi5kv7vmv3ih981vlwn06txnjdtas3u2wa8msx61i12ueh14t7kqwsfskg032nhyuy1d9vv2wm925rd18kih9xhkyilobbgy'

def gen(x):
   h = hashlib.md5((
      hashkey +
      (Model+'\n').ljust(32, '\x00') +
      opt.ljust(5, '\x00') +
      2*(((SCOPEID if opt in bwopt else SN) + '\n').ljust(32, '\x00')) +
      '\x00'*16).encode('ascii')
   ).digest()
   key = ''
   for b in h:
      if (b <= 0x2F or b > 0x39) and (b <= 0x60 or b > 0x7A):
         m = b % 0x24
         b = m + (0x57 if m > 9 else 0x30)
      if b == 0x30: b = 0x32
      if b == 0x31: b = 0x33
      if b == 0x6c: b = 0x6d
      if b == 0x6f: b = 0x70
      key += chr(b)
   return key.upper()
   
for opt in bwopt:
   print('{:5} {}'.format(opt, gen(SCOPEID)))
for opt in otheropt:
   print('{:5} {}'.format(opt, gen(SN)))

« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 06:41:58 pm by Chappy1978 »
 


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