Poll

Can you reproduce the Freeze-up Bug as described in this thread?

Yes, can reproduce the freezing.
42 (39.6%)
No, can't reproduce the freezing.
64 (60.4%)

Total Members Voted: 101

Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??  (Read 143603 times)

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Offline Helix70

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #425 on: December 02, 2015, 11:56:33 am »
Note that freeze up bugs are also present in the Tektronix MDO3000, for the Tektronix aficionados out here :)



Well that's it, I have lost all confidence in Tek. I can't believe they let such a major bug out into the public. I guess these things will be appearing on eBay for pennies now.
 

Offline GonzoTheGreat

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #426 on: December 03, 2015, 02:00:12 pm »
Well that's it, I have lost all confidence in Tek. I can't believe they let such a major bug out into the public. I guess these things will be appearing on eBay for pennies now.
What's more important is how long they allow the bug to thrive.

As long as Rigol ...or shorter?
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #427 on: December 18, 2015, 06:51:17 am »
It's best not to try and isolate bugs with presaved setup files, they can be subject to their own idiosyncrasies, better to clearly define the firmware versions at the start, reset the scope to a "known" condition and then complete the steps to reproduce the bug, obviously a video helps.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline esmconcepts

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #428 on: December 20, 2015, 02:23:40 am »
Hi, my name is Everett. I do a lot of reading on the forum, but this is my 1st post. I just bought the Rigol Z model a week ago so I have read for many hours on the good and bad points. But it does seem to be a very good option for the price. I bought it, thanks to Dave's reviews and tear-down.

I have not come across any bugs or freezes yet, "knock on wood". But I have come across some additional testing inside the Z that to date I have not read about. Maybe it can help some of the smarter members with their bug searches.

When you use the: Trigger - menu - menu - force - menu trick to get the full listing of the system info stop there and go to the "Self-Cal" menu listing. There will be 1 more test items listed below the normal listings "TestModel." Select it and there are 3 more listings "Key Test, Screen Test, and a grayed out UnlockAuto."

Now, while your back in the menu with the Self-Cal button, click it, there are 2 additional listings, "LFCal and Output." The LFCal runs a test for the current active probe channel that is on. The Output, I don't know, I did now notice any activity when clicked. Perhaps an out going source needs to be connected??? Someone else might have a better idea?

I have also listed my Z's System Info if it helps anyone.

Just an FYI and Thanks to all the other supportive members for their effort in making this forum a great source of information.
Everett...
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #429 on: December 20, 2015, 09:18:23 am »
@Everett:
Thanks for your interesting post. I was aware of the Test Model Key Test and Screen Test items but not the LF Cal and Output items.  I thought these came with the SP2 software but you are still on SP1.  You don't mention whether you have a "genuine" 1104Z or an "unlocked" 1054Z....  I ask because your System Info screen is showing a "Boot Version" 0.0.1.4 instead of 0.0.1.3  .... even though you are running an earlier version (SP1) of the "Software".

It sure is hard to keep track of all these differences in the "firmware" or software suite. I wonder what other undocumented features exist in the 1000z series scopes.

I don't think you'll have the Freeze Bug as described in this thread, and probably not the "measurements fail" bug (that I think comes with the SP2 firmware, maybe)  but if you are so inclined you might check to see if you have the Math horizontal error bug that happens at 500 ns/div.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 09:25:22 am by alsetalokin4017 »
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline garnix

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #430 on: December 20, 2015, 11:33:35 am »
@esmconcepts how does that additional menu appear? Which keys did you press?

Ok solved :-) the trick is to push the buttons very quickly...
« Last Edit: December 20, 2015, 11:37:51 am by garnix »
 

Offline esmconcepts

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #431 on: December 20, 2015, 06:28:07 pm »
Hi alsetalokin,
Quote
It sure is hard to keep track of all these differences in the "firmware" or software suite. I wonder what other undocumented features exist in the 1000z series scopes

I agree, I was also looking at the Software Version / Firmware Version, then the Build date from what the other members have posted. Something does not add up.
I would expect a newer build date to be running the newer Soft & Firm, but not always so. It seems Rigol has shifted the S&F versions at different time's as to the build dates. They must have noticed an issue. I noticed a couple with different Board version's/ aka 0.1.2 / 0.1.3 - with older build dates.
Mine is new (as least the purchase date) May of 15, with what appears to be older Software version #.

I have not updated the software version (and won't until I see promising results" but I do have the "DSER" add on. I started with the Full package, but did notice some unstable results. So I used the Telnet procedure to roll back to stock setup and then applied the add on without the 500uM part.

This is my 1st Digital scope as I see the need to catch up with the newer technology. I have a Tektronix 2201 & 2445 that I have used to test and learn on. The 1000Z series has a lot going for it, and at the current price was in my modest budget. I'm learning something new everyday.
 

Offline v81

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #432 on: January 29, 2016, 04:21:56 am »
Can confirm that i can reproduce this bug.
Screen cap of version details attached.
Not en expert scope pilot yet, is there any other data i can provide that helps?
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #433 on: January 29, 2016, 06:36:50 am »
Can confirm that i can reproduce this bug.
Screen cap of version details attached.
Not en expert scope pilot yet, is there any other data i can provide that helps?

Thanks for your report.

The significant bit is that your scope has the earlier Boot Version. The Freeze Bug is apparently fixed on scopes with Boot Version 0.0.1.3. Unfortunately I know of no way to change/update your Boot Version; installing new "firmware" updates from a GEL file only changes the "Software Version".
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #434 on: January 29, 2016, 07:10:35 am »
The significant bit is that your scope has the earlier Boot Version. The Freeze Bug is apparently fixed on scopes with Boot Version 0.0.1.3. Unfortunately I know of no way to change/update your Boot Version; installing new "firmware" updates from a GEL file only changes the "Software Version".

I know how to but there is a strong chance of 'le brick' and it's not worth the risk (besides that I'm on later boot code and going back in time is another whole can of worms).
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #435 on: January 29, 2016, 11:22:42 am »
The significant bit is that your scope has the earlier Boot Version. The Freeze Bug is apparently fixed on scopes with Boot Version 0.0.1.3. Unfortunately I know of no way to change/update your Boot Version; installing new "firmware" updates from a GEL file only changes the "Software Version".

Unfortunately for your theory, plenty of people have boot 0.0.1.1 with no bug (eg. me).

 

Offline madires

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #436 on: January 29, 2016, 01:11:11 pm »
Unfortunately for your theory, plenty of people have boot 0.0.1.1 with no bug (eg. me).

Mine got no freeze bug either (boot version 0.0.1.2).
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #437 on: January 29, 2016, 03:26:38 pm »
Total count 6 people confirmed reproducible on boot code 0.0.1.2 and 6 people not reproducible on boot code 0.0.1.2. All other boot code versions either side of that so far report no issues.

Obviously the more samples the better but the freeze was reported a couple of times early on that it took a few attempts to make the problem persistent. Not everyone is good at following instructions either which skews numbers.

It doesn't matter if it's hardware software or whatever, but my theory is it's a firmware issue and some scopes didn't get an interim boot code update at 00.04.00.00  (which contained the last public boot code GEL file) but got a later software update instead. I've seen this type of mix up happen many times so it's the most plausible to me. The update system appears to not accept boot code firmware based on the current software version. Too bad if you miss an important boot code update.

In my opinion Rigol is really dumb asking people to self report this, they have a sample scope with the fault and they can reach out to other customers anytime they want.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 03:35:20 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #438 on: January 29, 2016, 07:23:12 pm »
Quote
Total count 6 people confirmed reproducible on boot code 0.0.1.2 and 6 people not reproducible on boot code 0.0.1.2.

Did you take a look at the poll numbers at the top of this thread? (The poll is inaccurate on the "can't reproduce" side because some people with _different scope models_ have put their scopes in there...  :palm:  )

Does anyone know of any scope that does _not_ have Boot Version 0.0.1.2 and that _does_ have the Freeze Bug?

Quote
Not everyone is good at following instructions either which skews numbers.

That's right.  But as far as I know, only scopes with Boot Version 0.0.1.2 have this particular bug. I still don't know if _all_ scopes with Boot Version 0.0.1.2 have it, because of the problems with following instructions, different models (1074, genuine 1104 vs "hacked" 1054, etc) being included in the poll numbers, and so on.

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Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #439 on: January 29, 2016, 07:29:02 pm »
The significant bit is that your scope has the earlier Boot Version. The Freeze Bug is apparently fixed on scopes with Boot Version 0.0.1.3. Unfortunately I know of no way to change/update your Boot Version; installing new "firmware" updates from a GEL file only changes the "Software Version".

Unfortunately for your theory, plenty of people have boot 0.0.1.1 with no bug (eg. me).

Unfortunately for _your interpretation_ of my theory, my theory is that perhaps half of the scopes _with boot version 0.0.1.2_ have the Freeze Bug. So your results with 0.0.1.1 are irrelevant unless you can get your scope to freeze, which you evidently cannot. Also, if you did have 0.0.1.2 and did _not_ successfully get your scope to freeze.... that's interesting but does not _disprove_ my theory, since you could be failing to follow the directions, or you could have one of the scopes that doesn't freeze even with the bad boot version.

We need data points from scopes that DON'T have Boot Version 0.0.1.2 but DO freeze according to the instructions. Are there any?
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #440 on: January 30, 2016, 12:40:27 am »
Does anyone know of any scope that does _not_ have Boot Version 0.0.1.2 and that _does_ have the Freeze Bug?

6 boot code 0.0.1.2 reproduced
6 boot code 0.0.1.2 cannot reproduce
11 others have boot codes 0.0.1.1 and 0.0.1.3 etc and cannot reproduce.

There is a lot more people with the problem but they haven't reported their boot code yet.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Marcos

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #441 on: January 30, 2016, 12:59:16 am »
Just to add...at that time I reported in that poll that I can not reproduce the fault, so my entry is inaccurate  because later I realized that I didn't followed instructions and the bug was present on my scope too with boot ver. 0.0.1.2
 

Offline akkarin

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #442 on: January 30, 2016, 03:47:17 pm »
I really would love to hear from rigol. But it does seem they don't care.

Wasn't a rigol employee reading here? How about a statement? What's the current status?
 

Offline Marcos

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #443 on: January 30, 2016, 06:06:34 pm »
They don't care about this anymore.
They don't care about their expensive scopes so why would they bother with the "entry level " stuff.
Read the forum and you'll see that even their expensive scopes have a lot of problems and how many peoples are complaining about firmware and bugs.
Anyway, it will always be someone here to tell you that for such a price you paid for it's not a big deal.
I can not understand how somebody can be happy with a product which states that have some features but some of them are not working.
Was anywhere specified that you have to pay 400 bucks .. but ... please people, don't expect to have it working as it was advertised! :)
 

Offline Kaziq

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #444 on: February 01, 2016, 08:35:06 pm »
Hello everyone. I have just registered here to tell that my newly bought Rigol DS1054Z has the freezing bug (and the other bugs as well: the math bug and the "pluses" counting bug).
My boot version is 0.0.1.2, so that doesn't add much to the knowledge (just may tip the scales in favour of those with 0.0.1.2 and the freezing).

Also I have made a mistake by installing the newest firmware "upgrade", which just made the scope more sluggish without fixing most of the bugs. I did that before reading through the entire topic, and the description for the firmware changes seemed to mention that the freezing had been solved there (but I'm not a Chinglish native speaker, so I could have misunderstood that part).

I have wondered about a possibility of writing a custom firmware from scratch, but gave it up finally. That's not what I paid Rigol for. And I doubt there would be enough people willing to donate to someone to do what Rigol should do (that's not what they paid for too). It would help if Rigol made the software open-source. We would make it ten times better than it is now, but I guess there is no chance for that.

Do they care? One would think they do. They have made the arrangements to sent alsetalokin4017 a new scope and get one that has the bug. Strange that they did not have any such on their own. That suggests all theirs already had boot version 0.0.1.3. Couldn't they downgrade the boot loader to test? Either they didn't believe that was the reason and everyone was too lazy busy to check it just in case (are you kidding?) or they have deleted old boot loader code and literally couldn't get one to test (come on, no one can be that dumb, right?). Their silence in the boot loader matter is interesting however. It suggests that they did a dumb thing, one or another, and don't want to admit it.
 

Offline Marcos

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #445 on: February 02, 2016, 10:33:21 am »
Apply the hack to upgrade trial options to Official and see the magic. Board version will change from 0.1.1. to 0.2.3 from time to time.
Now imagine what a piece of junk is inside this scope. Use the scope with time base bigger than 1 sec and it will take ages to refresh the screen.
Hopefully peoples will stop buying this crap forever and Rigol will be sued to feel the customer frustration about their products.
Thanks God I sold mine but I feel sad about new owner, maybe he will use it just as a decoration inside his lab :)
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #446 on: February 02, 2016, 11:28:28 am »
Now imagine what a piece of junk is inside this scope. Use the scope with time base bigger than 1 sec and it will take ages to refresh the screen.
you can either...
1) use roll mode from horizontal timebase menu or,
2) buy graph logging multimeter like Fluke 287 or,
use the right tool or the right option in the menu, a 100MHz scope is not meant for 1s timeframe capture, but at least it can show some..

Hopefully peoples will stop buying this crap forever and Rigol will be sued to feel the customer frustration about their products.
i'm frustrated with my Rigol because it cannot make coffee for me..

maybe he will use it just as a decoration inside his lab :)
if he doesnt know how to use it, then that it will become... are you spammer from Siglent or gwInstek guy?
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline markone

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #447 on: February 02, 2016, 12:05:48 pm »
Hopefully peoples will stop buying this crap forever and Rigol will be sued to feel the customer frustration about their products.
Thanks God I sold mine but I feel sad about new owner, maybe he will use it just as a decoration inside his lab :)

Just out of curiosity, just to know your quality references, could you share which new scope have you chosen ?
 

Offline Karel

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #448 on: February 02, 2016, 03:54:35 pm »
Now imagine what a piece of junk is inside this scope. Use the scope with time base bigger than 1 sec and it will take ages to refresh the screen.
Hopefully peoples will stop buying this crap forever and Rigol will be sued to feel the customer frustration about their products.
Thanks God I sold mine but I feel sad about new owner, maybe he will use it just as a decoration inside his lab :)

I don't agree. For this price, Rigol has the best bang for buck. For most hobbyists, the Rigol DS1054z is still the best choice.
The bugs still left in the latest firmware, are no dealbreakers.
If you want better specs or better firmware, you have to pay a lot more.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #449 on: February 02, 2016, 08:13:15 pm »
Now imagine what a piece of junk is inside this scope. Use the scope with time base bigger than 1 sec and it will take ages to refresh the screen.
Hopefully peoples will stop buying this crap forever and Rigol will be sued to feel the customer frustration about their products.

The  "problem" you picked as an example does not give you much credibility, Marcos. Don't understand the need to fill the pre-trigger buffer, then wait for a trigger event? This is in no way a weakness of the DS1000Z, in my view, but a fundamental behaviour of digital scopes. Mechatrommer has already explained the scope setting to use if you want to avoid this.

The DS1000Z series is not perfect, but none of the known bugs and limitations has ever seriously hampered my hobby use.  As mentioned by others, it's great "bang for the buck". It also certainly has enough "bang" for my needs.
 


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