Poll

Can you reproduce the Freeze-up Bug as described in this thread?

Yes, can reproduce the freezing.
42 (40%)
No, can't reproduce the freezing.
63 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 100

Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??  (Read 136828 times)

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Offline Muxr

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2015, 11:29:36 pm »
My DS2000 was also freezing all the time when I first got it, it was really annoying I would get a lock up every 20 minutes on average, firmware upgrade to 3.0.3 solved the issue. The version that was buggy was 3.0.0. Since I upgraded to 3.0.3 I only had one lock up of the UI in 3 months.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2015, 11:30:42 pm »
Hmmm... this is pretty strange indeed. We have at least one other person who IS able to reproduce the freezeup, but several others who cannot.

Well, now that I know it can be avoided by using full memory depth, it's not really much of a problem for me, but it certainly is strange that some (at least two!) scopes have the bug and others don't.


(video linked up above)

What's the date of calibration for your scope?  Mine's March 4, 2015, and I only took delivery of it yesterday.  It's the closest thing I can think of to a "build date", something we could use to determine roughly when these were made.

The cal cert says 16 Jan 2015. 
I don't know if you've read about the "saga". We ordered the scope in early February, and due to backorder and longshoreman's strike, I didn't have a delivery until the first week of April. (I don't remember the exact dates offhand). This was "scope 1" which turned out to have a bad glitch on CH4. So after consulting with a Rigol tech and the folks at TEquipment I sent that one back and was shipped a "new" one from TEquipment. But... some alarms went off about the replacement "scope 2".
First, the packaging. There was only one box, it was not double-boxed like the first one and like the ones you see "unboxing" on YT videos. What happened to the outer box?
Second, the serial number. The "new" scope had an _earlier_ SN than the one I returned, by quite a bit of numbers. This didn't make sense to me, as all of TEquipment's stock at that time should have been from the container they received at the end of March.
Third, there were some minor differences in how the "feel" (control response timing) was compared to my memory of what the first scope felt like. Later I put that down to my imagination but now I'm not so sure any more.
And as we see now, the calibration date was in January, which fits with the early SN.

So I'm wondering what to make of all this. Is the scope I got as the "replacement" a lemon, not too bad to toss out like the first one but still not quite 100 percent "right"?
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Bob F.

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2015, 11:32:49 pm »
Same on my brand new DS1054Z (4.02.SP4 as yet un-hacked).  Mine will freeze after changing Persistence setting at anything faster than 20uS with Mem-Depth at Auto when put into Zoom mode.  Changing from Auto to the maximum 24M (why is my unhacked 1054Z saying 24M? [edit: oh yeah - it's still on the Trial - doh!]) stops it freezing as reported above.

Oddly, it took me several tries before I was able to make it freeze, but it does it every time now.

I have also just made it freeze by changing the Persistence value while it was in Zoom mode @ 1us/div.

And again @ 20us - but this time I had to change the Persistence twice - it froze when I hit the button the second time to change it...

I think I'll let Rigol sort out the actual issue!  Will just have to remember to keep it at 24M as suggested until Rigol sort it out (assuming it is firmware which I guess is most likely).


Is there no soft-reset for the scope - a combination of key-presses?


Cheers, Bob.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2015, 11:37:14 pm by Bob F. »
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2015, 11:38:01 pm »
My DS2000 was also freezing all the time when I first got it, it was really annoying I would get a lock up every 20 minutes on average, firmware upgrade to 3.0.3 solved the issue. The version that was buggy was 3.0.0. Since I upgraded to 3.0.3 I only had one lock up of the UI in 3 months.

Did other 2000 owners also have the same problem?  I'm still waiting for more reports of this bug, most people don't seem to be reproducing it. If it's down to just mine, or a few from a short production run maybe, then I don't expect Rigol would fix it in a firmware update.

I'm also having trouble understanding how this could be a hardware fault, though. The first scope's glitching was obviously in hardware, but this one's a lot more difficult to call. Still, I've now reinstalled the 04.03 firmware again, and tested both with Options "installed" and "uninstalled". (I hate to use the "h" word.) Still the same problem happens.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline LightlyDoped

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2015, 11:39:02 pm »
I'm still running firmware version 4.02 and I can't reproduce this behavior. By the way, my scope also came from TEquipment without a double box. I received it in early February.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2015, 11:43:52 pm »
Same on my brand new DS1054Z (4.02.SP4 as yet un-hacked).  Mine will freeze after changing Persistence setting at anything faster than 20uS with Mem-Depth at Auto when put into Zoom mode.  Changing from Auto to the maximum 24M (why is my unhacked 1054Z saying 24M? [edit: oh yeah - it's still on the Trial - doh!]) stops it freezing as reported above.

Oddly, it took me several tries before I was able to make it freeze, but it does it every time now.

I have also just made it freeze by changing the Persistence value while it was in Zoom mode @ 1us/div.

And again @ 20us - but this time I had to change the Persistence twice - it froze when I hit the button the second time to change it...

I think I'll let Rigol sort out the actual issue!  Will just have to remember to keep it at 24M as suggested until Rigol sort it out (assuming it is firmware which I guess is most likely).


Is there no soft-reset for the scope - a combination of key-presses?


Cheers, Bob.

Thanks for that report, Bob! Now maybe Rigol will notice, especially if others can report the same bug.

There are two different "resets" that I know about. If the scope is responding, look in the "Storage" menu, at the bottom there is a "Default" button. This will reset many of the scope's parameters back to default.
Next, there's the 5th one of the six dark colored buttons on the left menu panel. Press this button repeatedly during power-on bootup, and the scope will reset back to what I think are factory defaults. It will be in Chinese when it starts, but will be on the page where you can select your desired language.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline dadler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2015, 11:50:02 pm »
Hmmm... this is pretty strange indeed. We have at least one other person who IS able to reproduce the freezeup, but several others who cannot.

Well, now that I know it can be avoided by using full memory depth, it's not really much of a problem for me, but it certainly is strange that some (at least two!) scopes have the bug and others don't.


(video linked up above)

What's the date of calibration for your scope?  Mine's March 4, 2015, and I only took delivery of it yesterday.  It's the closest thing I can think of to a "build date", something we could use to determine roughly when these were made.

The cal cert says 16 Jan 2015. 
I don't know if you've read about the "saga". We ordered the scope in early February, and due to backorder and longshoreman's strike, I didn't have a delivery until the first week of April. (I don't remember the exact dates offhand). This was "scope 1" which turned out to have a bad glitch on CH4. So after consulting with a Rigol tech and the folks at TEquipment I sent that one back and was shipped a "new" one from TEquipment. But... some alarms went off about the replacement "scope 2".
First, the packaging. There was only one box, it was not double-boxed like the first one and like the ones you see "unboxing" on YT videos. What happened to the outer box?
Second, the serial number. The "new" scope had an _earlier_ SN than the one I returned, by quite a bit of numbers. This didn't make sense to me, as all of TEquipment's stock at that time should have been from the container they received at the end of March.
Third, there were some minor differences in how the "feel" (control response timing) was compared to my memory of what the first scope felt like. Later I put that down to my imagination but now I'm not so sure any more.
And as we see now, the calibration date was in January, which fits with the early SN.

So I'm wondering what to make of all this. Is the scope I got as the "replacement" a lemon, not too bad to toss out like the first one but still not quite 100 percent "right"?

Just a data-point for you:

I sent back a DSA815-TG due to defective display, and the Tequipment replacement came in a single-box. No outer box. And the single box that it did come in, had a big hole poked through the side into the interior of the box. Luckily, once I opened the box, I discovered that the hole was on the back side of the device (no screen contact).

The new DSA815 seems fine and has a later serial number than my original. However, I wonder where the original outer box is for this DSA? The box must exist, serial number and all. Makes me think I got a refurbished unit, or a return of some sort?
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2015, 11:53:41 pm »
...
I think I'll let Rigol sort out the actual issue!  Will just have to remember to keep it at 24M as suggested until Rigol sort it out (assuming it is firmware which I guess is most likely).
...

Thanks for that report, Bob! Now maybe Rigol will notice, especially if others can report the same bug.

...

Did anyone reported the bug to Rigol?

Is not like they are monitoring every thread here at the EEVblog, so don't expect it to get fixed unless someone contacts them.
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2015, 12:01:06 am »
My DS2000 was also freezing all the time when I first got it, it was really annoying I would get a lock up every 20 minutes on average, firmware upgrade to 3.0.3 solved the issue. The version that was buggy was 3.0.0. Since I upgraded to 3.0.3 I only had one lock up of the UI in 3 months.

Did other 2000 owners also have the same problem?  I'm still waiting for more reports of this bug, most people don't seem to be reproducing it. If it's down to just mine, or a few from a short production run maybe, then I don't expect Rigol would fix it in a firmware update.

I'm also having trouble understanding how this could be a hardware fault, though. The first scope's glitching was obviously in hardware, but this one's a lot more difficult to call. Still, I've now reinstalled the 04.03 firmware again, and tested both with Options "installed" and "uninstalled". (I hate to use the "h" word.) Still the same problem happens.
I do remember reading a few lock up complaints on the  2000 but nothing like I experienced. I have a DS2072A so maybe it was just limited to that revision and the firmware it shipped with.
 

Offline GonzoTheGreat

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2015, 12:52:00 am »
Well, the closest thing to a "factory reset" is what comes up when one repeatedly presses the 5th dark grey left menu key during bootup, right? The scope comes up in Chinese. So I set English. The 1 us/div and Auto memory depth are set by default already. So I set Persistence to 100 ms, then enter Zoom mode... and it freezes.

I was able to reproduce the bug when starting from the factory defaults and keeping the memory on Auto and 1us/div.
I am using the firmware 4.03 in the "100MHz hacked mode".
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2015, 01:44:21 am »
Thanks for the report Gonzo. Getting much snow down there these days? ;)

So now I'm confident that it is a software bug, not just some peculiarity of my unit. We have now almost as many freezebug detections, as non-detections. What's different about the ones that can't reproduce the bug, though?

The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2015, 02:17:59 am »
I can reproduce it too.  Has anyone actually reported it to Rigol, with a link to this thread?

I'm 4.02.sp4.  Mine just came in the mail yesterday.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 02:28:59 am by John Coloccia »
 

Offline kwass

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2015, 02:19:29 am »
I've tried everything suggested in this thread and still can't lock up my 1054z with firmware 4.02.  And since we're sort of 50-50 for responders in this thread I'm going to guess that this is somehow due to a hardware variation -- however unlikely that seems.

I'll record this in the bug thread as "some users have reported scope lock ups when setting memory depth to AUTO, timebase to 1us, zooming in and changing the persistence from MIN something else."
-katie
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2015, 02:37:49 am »
I've tried everything suggested in this thread and still can't lock up my 1054z with firmware 4.02.  And since we're sort of 50-50 for responders in this thread I'm going to guess that this is somehow due to a hardware variation -- however unlikely that seems.

I'll record this in the bug thread as "some users have reported scope lock ups when setting memory depth to AUTO, timebase to 1us, zooming in and changing the persistence from MIN something else."

Actually... by  my count in this thread I am counting 5 who have reproduced the bug (including me) and 4 who have tried and can't reproduce it (including you). So instead of "some users" you could be saying "over half of the users who tried..."
;)
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline kwass

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #39 on: June 04, 2015, 02:40:33 am »
Actually... by  my count in this thread I am counting 5 who have reproduced the bug (including me) and 4 who have tried and can't reproduce it (including you). So instead of "some users" you could be saying "over half of the users who tried..."
;)

Oh no, it sounds like we need another poll!

-katie
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2015, 02:51:40 am »
Actually... by  my count in this thread I am counting 5 who have reproduced the bug (including me) and 4 who have tried and can't reproduce it (including you). So instead of "some users" you could be saying "over half of the users who tried..."
;)

Oh no, it sounds like we need another poll!

Heh.. OK I put up a poll, and voted in it. Please everybody check it out and put your vote in!


The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2015, 02:52:55 am »
I've also noticed that when the persist time is anything but min, and you go into the delayed sweep (or whatever they call it), depending on what your initial time scale is you will run into various VERY slow GUI response as you change the second time scale.  It's not random.  It reliably happens at specific time scales.

So for example, on mine I set:

Persistence 100ms
Main time base: 100us

Switch into delayed sweep

As I move the second time base from 5us to 2us, the transition takes a LONG time.

That's just one example.  I tried it with others, and the various delays vs time base are all over the place.  Some are very fast...others have me thinking the scope is locked up, but it's actually working.  It's just VERY slow.  Setting memory depth to the maximum doesn't fix the problem.  It just changes it.

None of this happens with persistence set to min.

So there's more to this than simply locking up.  I wonder if the others that can't reproduce the locking up could possibly reproduce the huge slowdowns changing the second time base?

Anyhow, I rarely use persistence greater than Min, so it's not really affecting me.  Just wanted to help out a bit.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 02:54:28 am by John Coloccia »
 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2015, 03:54:28 am »
Actually... by  my count in this thread I am counting 5 who have reproduced the bug (including me) and 4 who have tried and can't reproduce it (including you). So instead of "some users" you could be saying "over half of the users who tried..."
;)

Oh no, it sounds like we need another poll!

Heh.. OK I put up a poll, and voted in it. Please everybody check it out and put your vote in!
Plus another option: I haven't got a 1054Z but I want to see the results.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2015, 04:42:16 am »
Heh.. OK I put up a poll, and voted in it. Please everybody check it out and put your vote in!
Plus another option: I haven't got a 1054Z but I want to see the results.

The forum software has taken care of that; the "View Results" button is right below the actual poll. No need for a "fake" voting option ;-)
 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2015, 07:12:33 am »
Heh.. OK I put up a poll, and voted in it. Please everybody check it out and put your vote in!
Plus another option: I haven't got a 1054Z but I want to see the results.

The forum software has taken care of that; the "View Results" button is right below the actual poll. No need for a "fake" voting option ;-)
Thanks, it was included in another poll recently, that's why I asked.
All good.  :-+
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2015, 11:12:26 am »
We seem to be missing a few "Can reproduce" votes!

Two more people have reported "Can reproduce" in comments on my second YT video linked above. One was someone who tried at first and couldn't reproduce, but by following the video exactly, was then able to make his scope freeze as described. That one was a "never hacked" stock 1054z unit with some time left on the trial options.

The other "Can reproduce" commenter has contacted a Rigol tech and they are exploring the issue. Apparently the Rigol tech couldn't get his scope to freeze during their phone call, but he's looking into the matter further.

This is a real bug, and results from a perfectly legit combination of settings that might reasonably be expected to occur in normal use. Why some people can't reproduce it may be because of a real difference in their scopes, like good vs bad production runs of some chip in the things,  or maybe just my lousy instructions aren't conveying the bug parameters sufficiently well enough.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline jadew

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2015, 11:44:27 am »
DS1104Z - 04.02 - can't reproduce.
 

Offline Anand

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2015, 12:34:17 pm »
DS1054z - 4.03 - CAN reproduce.
trashf.
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2015, 01:35:00 pm »
What are the exact steps you need to follow from Factory Defaults to reproduce the bug.
You cannot have a bug that only happens with some scopes, that smells like a hardware bug.
 

Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2015, 02:18:19 pm »
Set persistence to 100ms.
Set memory depth to Auto (should be set that way already)
Set time base to 1us.
Switch to delayed sweep mode. 
Locks up on me every time.

Plus, there's the other funniness with response times that I mentioned earlier.  I doubt this is a hardware bug.  I'll bet money it's some sort of race condition, and any differences between different scopes is just due to slightly different timing.

The big question is can DAVE reproduce it?  He's got a 1054Z, no?  Maybe I'll post this in one of the 1054Z video threads and see if he notices.


« Last Edit: June 04, 2015, 02:20:05 pm by John Coloccia »
 


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