Poll

Can you reproduce the Freeze-up Bug as described in this thread?

Yes, can reproduce the freezing.
42 (40.4%)
No, can't reproduce the freezing.
62 (59.6%)

Total Members Voted: 99

Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??  (Read 128640 times)

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Offline John Coloccia

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #75 on: June 06, 2015, 01:16:27 am »
If you can't do real work with one of these things, in spite of a couple of firmware bugs, it's not the scope's fault.  ::)  I've seen far far worse in far more expensive equipment from folks like Agilent, Tektronics, Newport, Melles Griot, National Instruments, etc...
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 01:24:18 am by John Coloccia »
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #76 on: June 06, 2015, 01:46:36 am »
 

Offline dcac

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #77 on: June 06, 2015, 01:48:14 am »
Unable to freeze my scope whatever setting I seem to try after going in or out of zoom mode, only effect is the UI sometimes seems slightly slower. Tried first with FW 04.02 then upgraded to 04.03 - same result.

My 1054Z was purchased in mid January and has all options except 100Mhz and 500uV enabled.

I've had other problems though that required a reboot, i.e. for some reason it started to refuse to react in single trigger mode. In normal mode though I had a nice and steady trigger.
Only after a reboot, without changing anything else the problem was gone and single mode reacted again as it should. This has only happened 2-3 times and I've never been able to reproduce what caused it.

EDIT: just to clarify, the single trigger problem didn't cause my scope to freeze, it just didn't trigger in single trigger mode. 
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 01:55:04 am by dcac »
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #78 on: June 06, 2015, 03:26:39 am »
Thanks for your report. Just to be completely clear.... you did try the following?

1. Display a signal on CH1 from the probe Calibrator, at 1V/div, trigger type Edge, trigger level 2.00 V, sweep mode Auto
2. Set Horizontal Scale to 1 us/div
3. Select "Auto" from Acquire>Mem Depth menu
4. Select "100 ms" from Display>Persis. Time menu
5. Enter Horizontal Zoom mode by pressing the Horizontal Scale knob

The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #79 on: June 06, 2015, 04:45:15 am »
[Rigol #$%§ ... !!!]
Bad day?
So you've not studied Bud and MarkL's analysis of the 1054z then?  :-//
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Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #80 on: June 06, 2015, 04:46:50 am »
[Rigol #$%§ ... !!!]
Bad day?
So you've not studied Bud and MarkL's analysis of the 1054z then?  :-//

Link please  ?
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #81 on: June 06, 2015, 05:00:24 am »
[Rigol #$%§ ... !!!]
Bad day?
So you've not studied Bud and MarkL's analysis of the 1054z then?  :-//

Link please  ?
Some of the "nitty gritty" is here and the following page/s:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg563330/#msg563330

REMEMBER these guys uncovered the design flaws for us all to see.  :-+
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Offline Tainer

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #82 on: June 06, 2015, 05:39:44 am »
So what is the point? Rigol products are crap because they have firmware bugs? What utter nonsense!
Some guy found out that 1054z has jitter issues and after it was covered on the eevblog everyone is talking about jitter. Let's face it - the majority of users wouldn't even notice this issue in the first place, so I'm not surprised this bug slipped through QC. I'm sure the lock-up issue on some units will be addressed in a firmware update as well.

EDIT: I've just had a look at the thread linked above. Sorry tautech, I couldn't detect sarcasm at first - no hard feelings  :D
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 05:50:44 am by Tainer »
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #83 on: June 06, 2015, 05:40:41 am »
Some of the "nitty gritty" is here and the following page/s:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg563330/#msg563330

REMEMBER these guys uncovered the design flaws for us all to see.  :-+

So what? Rigol did not get the operating parameters for the clock PLL quite right, resulting in a clock jitter noticable on the scope display in certain measurements -- presumably more so with some, less with some other chips. They fixed the error rather promptly via a firmware update, such that no impact remains visible when using the scope. Only analysing the clock signal with external equipment, in the time or frequency domain, shows remaining impurities of the clock; but no one seems to have shown an effect on the operation of the scope.

That leaves me rather pleased with my DS1054Z, and reasonably satisfied with Rigol's behavior in addressing the initial design flaw. My sympathy to all who are still in agony about this...
 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #84 on: June 06, 2015, 05:45:46 am »
My sympathy to all who are still in agony about this...
:-DD
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Offline dcac

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #85 on: June 06, 2015, 05:46:43 am »
Thanks for your report. Just to be completely clear.... you did try the following?

1. Display a signal on CH1 from the probe Calibrator, at 1V/div, trigger type Edge, trigger level 2.00 V, sweep mode Auto
2. Set Horizontal Scale to 1 us/div
3. Select "Auto" from Acquire>Mem Depth menu
4. Select "100 ms" from Display>Persis. Time menu
5. Enter Horizontal Zoom mode by pressing the Horizontal Scale knob

Yeah, checked it again using that exact sequence and all I can notice is a slight hesitation on the screen update when going into H Zoom mode. I did it 5-6 times and the behaviour seems consistent.

Looking at your video, using that sequence, it seems all the controls goes unresponsive but the scope it self is continuing to operate and updating the display with the waveform. So is something triggering the KeyLock feature? and is the KeyLock feature otherwise working normally? just a thought...

 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #86 on: June 06, 2015, 06:47:53 am »
Thanks for your report. Just to be completely clear.... you did try the following?

1. Display a signal on CH1 from the probe Calibrator, at 1V/div, trigger type Edge, trigger level 2.00 V, sweep mode Auto
2. Set Horizontal Scale to 1 us/div
3. Select "Auto" from Acquire>Mem Depth menu
4. Select "100 ms" from Display>Persis. Time menu
5. Enter Horizontal Zoom mode by pressing the Horizontal Scale knob

Yeah, checked it again using that exact sequence and all I can notice is a slight hesitation on the screen update when going into H Zoom mode. I did it 5-6 times and the behaviour seems consistent.

Looking at your video, using that sequence, it seems all the controls goes unresponsive but the scope it self is continuing to operate and updating the display with the waveform. So is something triggering the KeyLock feature? and is the KeyLock feature otherwise working normally? just a thought...

Thanks for checking again. This seems to confirm that the problem only affects some, perhaps half, of the scopes tested. That is really strange.
 
Yes, the scope continues to display a live waveform when the controls freeze.

The KeyLock feature seems to be working normally: When the KeyLock feature is set to "Lock" by the button in the Utility menu, pressing any key brings up a notice "Keyboard Locked!" But this notice does not appear in the "frozen" state when one presses a key.

Also, when the scope is "frozen" it does not respond to an attempt to connect via Telnet over the LAN.

When it is legitimately "locked" with the KeyLock feature it accepts a Telnet connection and responds to the :SYSTem:LOCKed? query and other SCPI commands and can be unlocked by sending the :SYSTem:LOCKed 0 command. If the scope is connected via Telnet and then the "freeze bug" is initiated while connected, the scope no longer responds to SCPI commands over the Telnet connection and cannot be unfrozen by the SCPI commands.

Also, I can "freeze" the scope by sending the appropriate SCPI commands over the Telnet connection, at which point it stops responding to the remote connection:

:DISPlay:GRADing:TIME 0.1
:ACQuire:MDEPth AUTO
:TIMebase:DELay:ENABle 1
 
-- and the scope freezes, stops responding to the Telnet connection, and requires a reboot. But it still shows a live waveform !!
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #87 on: June 06, 2015, 06:56:13 am »
-- and the scope freezes, stops responding to the Telnet connection, and requires a reboot. But it still shows a live waveform !!
So more of a lockup than a freeze?
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Offline Tainer

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #88 on: June 06, 2015, 07:26:24 am »
Just a guess: the processor encounters some critical exception, but FPGA keeps operating as usual. That might explain why the waveforms are still updating and the rest of the scope is unresponsive.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #89 on: June 06, 2015, 07:53:06 am »
-- and the scope freezes, stops responding to the Telnet connection, and requires a reboot. But it still shows a live waveform !!
So more of a lockup than a freeze?

A rose by any other name....

Sure, call it a Lockup if you like. I'm sorry if I confused anyone by calling it a "freeze bug". The fact remains that it cannot be "unlocked" by any means other than a hard reboot. When it is simply "locked" it puts up the message when a key is pressed, it responds to the remote commands and can be unlocked remotely or by pressing the "unlock" key on the scope.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 07:55:15 am by alsetalokin4017 »
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Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #90 on: June 06, 2015, 07:57:24 am »
Just a guess: the processor encounters some critical exception, but FPGA keeps operating as usual. That might explain why the waveforms are still updating and the rest of the scope is unresponsive.

So how to explain why some scopes do it and others don't?  A run of subtly defective chips installed? It might be interesting to examine the serial numbers of the scopes that do and don't have the bug.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Online kcbrown

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #91 on: June 06, 2015, 10:58:11 am »
In regards to your hardware issue guess, it well may be the case. I have opened my 2072a to fix the ADC clock problem and what I found beside that problem was bunch of other hardware related problems all over the board, along and across. In one instance reviewing a circuit that occupied 1 square inch of space on the  PCB I counted 10 design errors! Wrong component selection, wrong design, wrong circuit layout. 10 errors per sq inch,

Have you detailed these errors somewhere, and especially the corrections you'd make to fix the errors you found?   If so, where did you write them up?

If not, why not?   Such an analysis could be immensely useful, or at the very least highly instructive.
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #92 on: June 06, 2015, 05:03:18 pm »
How about other models of the DS1000Z series? Do they show the same issue?
 

Offline JohnPen

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #93 on: June 06, 2015, 05:28:03 pm »
It would seem likely that the variations in DS1054Zs  'Freezing or not' is a a combination of both h/w and f/w interaction.  Variations in the speed of response/timing of the h/w could fall outside the f/w expectations.  The occasional fact of the eventual recovery would imply that sometimes the f/w window of opportunity enables the f/w to recover and to continue operate correctly.  A number of members have commented on the slowness of response to key presses sometimes so perhaps this is an occasion when h/w variation has delayed a bit to long.  What do members think?
 

Offline g8bnr

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #94 on: June 06, 2015, 05:42:49 pm »
Hi,
I voted that I could not reproduce the initial problem, but, after following the second video, with the calibrator and 1uS/div, I can, consistantly, reproduce this lock-up condition. Sorry for the confusion caused, hope that Rigol fix this promptly. My unit uses Software Version 00.04.02 SP4 with board version 0.2.3 and, apart from this issue, is superb value for money.

73 Dick G8BNR
 

Online cs.dk

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #95 on: June 06, 2015, 07:26:00 pm »
I can reproduce the freezing bug to >:(
EDIT: Running the new 4.03 FW..
 

Offline bill21

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2015, 12:12:50 am »
I am able to reproduce the bug on 4.02.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #97 on: June 07, 2015, 12:54:40 am »
OK, so now we have a "random" sample of at least 25 scopes (some people have replied in comments on my YT videos, that aren't reflected in this thread) and we are running nearly exactly half-and-half (if we take g8bnr's initial "no" vote and move it to "yes", for example.) 

So where is Rigol on this issue? Where's Dave?  Based on our sample we can expect _half_ of all the DS1054 units out there to have this problem.


I'm sure glad I didn't know about this bug when I ordered my scope ! I might have selected some other manufacturer's product for purchase instead! And then I would have missed out on all the joys of owning a Rigol DS1054Z product!

(Hello, Rigol.... are you out there? Dave? Earth to Dave, come in please...... over.......) 
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Offline miguelvp

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #98 on: June 07, 2015, 01:18:26 am »
...
So where is Rigol on this issue? Where's Dave?  Based on our sample we can expect _half_ of all the DS1054 units out there to have this problem.
...
(Hello, Rigol.... are you out there? Dave? Earth to Dave, come in please...... over.......)

I'll repeat it again, did anyone reported the issue to Rigol? or do you really need Dave to do the work? or hope Rigol finds this thread?

http://www.rigolna.com/tech-support/
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #99 on: June 07, 2015, 02:02:40 am »
Here's the text of the note I sent to Rigol Tech Support:

Quote
Are you aware of this problem? It seems to affect about half of the DS1054Z scopes that have tested for it (over 25 as I write this, with at least 13 affected). The problem occurs in scopes running firmware 04.03 and also in scopes running 04.02.
The scope "locks up" and does not respond to any user input (buttons, knobs, SCPI commands over LAN) and requires a power-cycle reboot. To reproduce the condition reliably, start with CH1 probe connected to Calibrator for a signal (although any signal or even no signal will also work). Set Horizontal timebase to 1 us/div or faster. Set Memory Depth to AUTO. Set Display Persistence Time to 100 ms, or any value other than "min". Enter Horizontal Zoom (Delayed) mode by pressing the Horizontal Scale knob or by using the menu item button. Scope locks up at this point. Or do the steps in different sequence, like have Mem Depth set at some value other than Auto, enter Horizontal Zoom then select "Auto" Mem Depth... scope locks up. The scope continues to show a live waveform but is completely unresponsive to any knobs or button presses. In this state, it also does not recognize attempts to connect over the LAN using Telnet. If the LAN connection is already established before the scope freezes, it stops responding to SCPI commands (connection is dropped).
The only way to restore function is to power-cycle the scope. Sometimes even power-cycling results in continued lockup and then the scope needs to be reset using the "5th Left Menu Button" reset technique which results in the scope coming up in Chinese (but operational.)
Please check the EEVBlog thread here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-freeze-up-bug/
And my videos demonstrating the bug:


Thank you for your attention to this matter. A perfectly legitimate combination of user settings should never cause an instrument to lock up completely requiring a hard reboot, and the fact that the "bug" appears in approximately half the units tested, using 04.02 and 04.03 firmwares equally, is very strange.

I have not yet received a reply.

One of the commenters on my videos has also contacted Rigol (in the UK I believe) by phone several days ago, and their technician was not able to reproduce the bug on his demo scope during the phone call. I do not know what has happened since then with that contact. 

As we have seen reported here several times, some people who initially reported not being able to reproduce it, later were indeed able to do so.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 


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