Poll

Can you reproduce the Freeze-up Bug as described in this thread?

Yes, can reproduce the freezing.
42 (40%)
No, can't reproduce the freezing.
63 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 100

Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??  (Read 136532 times)

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Online ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #175 on: June 13, 2015, 08:47:48 am »
So I reject your comment and its implied accusation.

Alright; my apologies if I came across as reproachful. I appreciate your efforts in finding and assessing this bug. Just felt that your sarcastic comments regarding the results of the Tek/Rigol comparison by W7NGA were overshooting a bit.
 

Offline bingo600

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #176 on: June 13, 2015, 11:36:57 am »
@alsetalokin4017
It was a nice bug discovery.

But now i tend to agree with ebastler , that absolutely no one on EEVblog could be unaware about this bug anymore.

Rigol has ack'ed the bug (thank you) , and there is "no more soup, to cook on this fish"

No reason to keep this thread alive anymore

/Bingo
 

Online edavid

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #177 on: June 22, 2015, 03:26:30 pm »
Rigol has ack'ed the bug (thank you) , and there is "no more soup, to cook on this fish"

I must have missed that... was it in this thread?  What did they say?
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #178 on: June 22, 2015, 04:16:43 pm »
Rigol has ack'ed the bug (thank you) , and there is "no more soup, to cook on this fish"

I must have missed that... was it in this thread?  What did they say?
I filed a report through the Rigol website, including a full description, links to this blog thread and to my videos describing the problem,
and on June 8th I received this response by email:

Quote
Hello,
My name is Jason Chonko and I am an Applications Engineer at Rigol Technologies USA. Thank you for writing in.
We are aware of the problems with the MSO and are investigating the issue further.
Can I get the following information from your instrument?
- Serial number?
- Purchase date and vendor?
- Shipping address and phone number?
I am going to write up a bug for your account. When it is fixed, you will be emailed the solution.
Sincerely,
Jason
I responded with the information he asked for and emphasized that the problem happens with the DS1054Z, not the MSO series as far as I know. I have heard nothing back since June 8th. It is June 22nd as I write this.
They have assigned "Case #:  00007818" to the issue.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline eyesociety

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #179 on: July 16, 2015, 05:24:44 pm »


Got my scope on the 15/05/2015.
I can also reproduce it on my  DS1054Z running 00:04:02:SP4, Board Version 0.1.1, using the instructions above.  :palm:  :palm:

I contacted my supplier and he said  your version of the firmware has been updated, and he said he would email me the latest version.
The new firmware version is 00.04.03.SP1.

I will let you know the result of the new update.
 
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #180 on: July 16, 2015, 07:42:11 pm »
Thanks for your report. Mine can still be made to freeze, even with 00.04.03.SP1.  It is a little harder to get it to start up already locked in the frozen state, because I _think_ that the SP1 firmware doesn't reset memory depth to "Auto" on boot up like the older version did. I think.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline timofonic

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #181 on: July 16, 2015, 07:49:54 pm »
I agree... mostly. The end user should be informed "up front" though as to how to recover from a locked-up scope by using the "Alternate Factory Reset" technique, and should be warned that this condition is quite likely to occur when a simple, legitimate combination of user settings is input to the scope.

It's a shame that the Display>Persistence feature isn't implemented without causing problems though. Say you are looking for jitter and have some persistence time set. Then you want to look at an FFT of your signal.  On my scope the FFT comes to a dead halt (although the scope isn't frozen) if any persistence time is set other than "min".

Also, look at the FFT display itself, even when it is running properly. How is one to know whether one is getting a proper computation of the FFT for a complex signal? The result you get depends on Acquire mode, Mem Depth and Trigger level, as Anand has discovered.

Yes, the scope is definitely still the best "bang for bucks" in terms of price and capability. It also seems to have the most "bugs per bang"! I'm not trying to discourage anyone from buying the scope, but I do think that the various bugs, and how to avoid or recover from them, should be "officially" made clear to the owners, and of course should be fixed by Rigol as soon as possible.

Too late! I'm saving money to get my first scope. I'm too OCD to not be discouraged, I dislike software bugs as much as cockroaches!
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #182 on: July 17, 2015, 10:42:56 am »
Well, that's your choice of course. I own a few analog scopes myself, and also an old Link pc-based DSO, but I find myself using my Rigol DS1054Z every day and hardly ever fire up the analog scopes now, and haven't used the Link at all since I bought the Rigol.
In spite of the bugs, it's still a very useful piece of kit, looks and feels nice and certainly adds a lot of capability to my little "laboratory". I would still recommend this scope as a great buy for a first-time scope buyer who needs a DSO. (Even though I still think it's better to learn the basics of scoposcopy on a basic analog scope.)
I have confidence that Rigol will fix the bugs in firmware as time goes by; meanwhile, I know that most of the bugs I've found and heard about won't affect most users at the basic level.
If you are doing work that often really involves complicated setups that absolutely _must_ yield quantitatively correct results, then you'll have to save up for quite a while in order to be able to afford an advanced Keysight or LeCroy or Tektronix or similar model DSO. Under the principle that (almost) any scope is better than no scope at all... I'd still recommend the DS1054Z as a "first" DSO to the hobbyist on a modest budget. The chances of a hobbyist project being "shut down" by encountering a bug in the Rigol are probably pretty low.

TLDR: I'm pretty happy with my DS1054Z in spite of the bugs.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline netdudeuk

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #183 on: July 17, 2015, 10:54:54 am »
In "Normal" acquisition at 5Msps when you are only set to 120Ksps sample rate it means you are throwing away 97.6 percent of the sample data so it's producing peaks where none exists.
You really need to set your scope to high-res for FFTs.
Well, that's clear enough.... now.  Is that "feature" mentioned in the User's Manual somewhere?

Yes:

Quote
Tips
? You can use HORIZONTAL SCALE to adjust the center frequency
and horizontal scale at the same time.
? Signals with DC components or deviation would cause error or deviation of
the FFT waveform components. To reduce the DC components, set the
“Channel Coupling” to “AC”.
? To reduce the random noise and aliasing frequency components of
repetitive or single pulse, set the “Acquisition Mode” of the oscilloscope
to “Average”.

Thank you. This indeed does produce a better FFT display, of the Calibrator signal anyway.

The shot below is using "Average" acquisition mode, 16 averages, Auto memory depth,  AC coupled input with BW limit on, Blackman window for the FFT.   And "persistence time" set to "min" of course.  I hope Anand is reading here!

My FFT is all down to the lower right hand side.  What's needed to bring it across to the left ?

Thanks
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #184 on: July 18, 2015, 05:11:57 pm »
Change the Center Frequency and the Hz/Div settings.

If you are using the Mode "Trace" then set your horizontal timebase to display a lot of cycles in the upper window.

See the examples below, looking at an approx. 4MHz sine wave. First is the "default" display when you start up the FFT, next is the display after "tweaking" the settings. Note that I have the Center Frequency set to twice the frequency of the sine wave.

Of course it all depends on what you are looking for in your FFT of an input signal, too.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline netdudeuk

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #185 on: July 24, 2015, 09:23:18 pm »
Thanks. Just what I was looking for.  Appreciate the trouble you went to to get the screenshots, etc.
 

Offline Penguin36

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #186 on: August 08, 2015, 12:03:33 pm »
Hi,
I just want to add my results to the freeze bug thread. Both scopes are not hacked and in trial state.

DS1054Z:   
HW 0.1.1, SW 00.04.03.SP1 -> freeze confirmed


DS1074Z-S:
HW 4.1.1, SW 00.04.03.SP1 -> no freeze!

And, saving screenshots to USB is much faster on the DS1074Z-S. Don't know if DS1074Z-S is allways HW 4.1.1?!

So, I keep the 1074 :-)

 

Offline Penguin36

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #187 on: August 19, 2015, 02:20:15 pm »
I exchanged the 1074 again with a 1054, because the SG in 1074 is not that good.

So, got my 2nd 1054z today, HW 0.1.1, same SW as before -> NO freeze!

So, there must be a problem in some scopes, 50% work o.k., 50% don't.

 

Online Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #188 on: August 19, 2015, 07:26:22 pm »
Can't reproduce the freeze up bug.

I'm running the defaults on start up and no probes.
Set Persis. Time to 100ms
Enter horizontal zoom mode
Still responsive to button presses.

Software Version
00.04.03
Board Version
0.1.1
Serial Number
DSA1ZA17140XXXX

For reference here is alsetalokin4017's
Serial Number
DAS1ZA17030XXXX

I won't bother reading this whole thread but that jump in serial numbers looks like a hardware revision to me or at least somethings changed for Rigol to jump in serial numbers.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2015, 07:29:34 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Offline Penguin36

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #189 on: August 19, 2015, 07:33:10 pm »
Can't reproduce the freeze up bug.

I'm running the defaults on start up and no probes.
Set Persis. Time to 100ms
Enter horizontal zoom mode
Still responsive to button presses.

Software Version
00.04.03
Board Version
0.1.1
Serial Number
DSA1ZA17140XXXX

For reference here is alsetalokin4017's
Serial Number
DAS1ZA17030XXXX

I won't bother reading this whole thread but that jump in serial numbers looks like a hardware revision to me or at least somethings changed for Rigol to jump in serial numbers.

Mine is ...17161XXXX
 

Offline JohnPen

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #190 on: August 19, 2015, 07:48:36 pm »
My DS1054Z is DS1ZA17100XXXX received in UK June this year and does 'freeze'.  Already logged on 'freeze' poll.

 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #191 on: August 19, 2015, 09:12:33 pm »
Can't reproduce the freeze up bug.

I'm running the defaults on start up and no probes.
Set Persis. Time to 100ms
Enter horizontal zoom mode
Still responsive to button presses.

Software Version
00.04.03
Board Version
0.1.1

Serial Number
DSA1ZA17140XXXX

For reference here is alsetalokin4017's
Serial Number
DAS1ZA17030XXXX

I won't bother reading this whole thread but that jump in serial numbers looks like a hardware revision to me or at least somethings changed for Rigol to jump in serial numbers.
SN's do not normally include HW versions, only model series and build date.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Online Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #192 on: August 20, 2015, 12:35:57 am »
SN's do not normally include HW versions, only model series and build date.

You talking about serial numbers in this specific case or serial numbers generally? As I'm meaning in this specific case there seems to be a pattern.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM     >>> Fluke 51/52 Thermometer Parts Required <<<
Oscilloscopes: Rigol DS1054Z, Phillips PM3065
 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #193 on: August 20, 2015, 01:09:20 am »
SN's do not normally include HW versions, only model series and build date.

You talking about serial numbers in this specific case or serial numbers generally? As I'm meaning in this specific case there seems to be a pattern.
Generally.

You'll note all HW versions are 0.1.1.

Production runs, dates etc are normally encrypted in the SN along the the actual unit # produced.
IIRC the jitter issue wasn't related to any HW version and FW  :-/O s made it go away.
Maybe this issue will be the same.  :-//
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #194 on: August 20, 2015, 02:25:42 am »
Can't reproduce the freeze up bug.

I'm running the defaults on start up and no probes.
Set Persis. Time to 100ms
Enter horizontal zoom mode
Still responsive to button presses.

Software Version
00.04.03
Board Version
0.1.1
Serial Number
DSA1ZA17140XXXX

For reference here is alsetalokin4017's
Serial Number
DAS1ZA17030XXXX

I won't bother reading this whole thread but that jump in serial numbers looks like a hardware revision to me or at least somethings changed for Rigol to jump in serial numbers.

Memory Depth set to "Auto" ? This appears to be one of the conditions for freezing.

What do you get in the file when you ask the scope to save a "Param" file?
Storage>Storage>Param and Save to USB stick
The file should contain more information about the software, firmware and board numbers.
like:
Code: [Select]
Model:DS1xxxZ
SN:DS1ZA170xxxxxx
Manufacturer:RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES
Board Ver:0.1.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.3.11
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.2
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.04.03.SP1
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #195 on: August 20, 2015, 02:59:06 am »
What do you get in the file when you ask the scope to save a "Param" file?
Storage>Storage>Param and Save to USB stick
The file should contain more information about the software, firmware and board numbers.
What about Power cycles # ?
Or is this something Rigol doesn't see as important info?  :-//
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Penguin36

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #196 on: August 20, 2015, 06:00:03 am »
Memory Depth set to "Auto" ? This appears to be one of the conditions for freezing.

What do you get in the file when you ask the scope to save a "Param" file?
Storage>Storage>Param and Save to USB stick
The file should contain more information about the software, firmware and board numbers.
like:
Code: [Select]
Model:DS1xxxZ
SN:DS1ZA170xxxxxx
Manufacturer:RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES
Board Ver:0.1.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.3.11
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.2
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.04.03.SP1

Param from my DS1054Z which does NOT freeze.

Model:DS1xxxZ
SN:DS1ZA1716xxxxx
Manufacturer:RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES
Board Ver:0.1.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.3.11
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.3
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.04.03.SP1


So, only the BOOT Ver is different, and SN of course.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #197 on: August 20, 2015, 06:03:50 am »

What about Power cycles # ?
Or is this something Rigol doesn't see as important info?  :-//

If there's a way to get the number of power cycles from the scope, I haven't found it yet.

Yes, you would think that would be an important bit of information. I certainly would like
to be able to see it.

It's also interesting, don't you think, that what we have been calling "firmware" is actually called "software" in the scope, and the real "firmware" is something different, and doesn't get updated, as far as I can tell, when a "firmware update" is installed by the .gel file from a USB stick.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #198 on: August 20, 2015, 06:07:57 am »


Param from my DS1054Z which does NOT freeze.

Model:DS1xxxZ
SN:DS1ZA1716xxxxx
Manufacturer:RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES
Board Ver:0.1.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.3.11
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.3
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.04.03.SP1


So, only the BOOT Ver is different, and SN of course.

Now that is very interesting indeed. I wonder if that is the case for all scopes that have the bug.

I haven't heard anything from Rigol since June 8 when they first replied to me when I notified them about this problem.

I also wonder if it is possible to upgrade these other bits and pieces. How can I install a new "BOOT Ver" in my scope? Why does Rigol call the thing we _can_ upgrade, "Software" on the scope, but "firmware" on their support pages?
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #199 on: August 20, 2015, 07:00:40 am »

You can apparently read out the operation time with a SCPI command.

:SYST:INFO? BTIME

Result: "May 26 2015 08:38:06 | 0 0:4 / 9 0:49"

Firmware build time: "May 26 2015 08:38:06"
Current operating time 'day hour:minute': "0 0:4"
Total operating time 'day hour:minute': "9 0:49"

Is just a guess.

Peter

Yes, I think that's right. But it still doesn't give the number of power cycles. The total "on" time is nice to know though, and is probably just as important as the number of power cycles.

The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 


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