Poll

Can you reproduce the Freeze-up Bug as described in this thread?

Yes, can reproduce the freezing.
42 (39.6%)
No, can't reproduce the freezing.
64 (60.4%)

Total Members Voted: 101

Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??  (Read 143869 times)

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Offline Penguin36

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #200 on: August 20, 2015, 07:22:05 am »

You can apparently read out the operation time with a SCPI command.

:SYST:INFO? BTIME

Result: "May 26 2015 08:38:06 | 0 0:4 / 9 0:49"

Firmware build time: "May 26 2015 08:38:06"
Current operating time 'day hour:minute': "0 0:4"
Total operating time 'day hour:minute': "9 0:49"

Is just a guess.

Peter

Yes, I think that's right. But it still doesn't give the number of power cycles. The total "on" time is nice to know though, and is probably just as important as the number of power cycles.

For my information please, why is the number of power cycles important?  :-//
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #201 on: August 20, 2015, 07:24:38 am »
Memory Depth set to "Auto" ? This appears to be one of the conditions for freezing.
What do you get in the file when you ask the scope to save a "Param" file?
Storage>Storage>Param and Save to USB stick
The file should contain more information about the software, firmware and board numbers.
Model:DS1xxxZ
SN:DS1ZA170xxxxxx
Manufacturer:RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES
Board Ver:0.1.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.3.11
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.2
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.04.03.SP1

Memory Depth is set to "Auto" by default on bootup on mine. I did also toggle it at least once while testing and could not reproduce it. I suggest setting your scope to full defaults and trying, as well as doing this next time you complete a firmware update.

Model:DS1xxxZ
SN:DS1ZA17140xxxx
Manufacturer:RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES
Board Ver:0.1.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.3.11
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.3
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.04.03

Boot code is different, does it get updated at all by a firmware update?
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #202 on: August 20, 2015, 07:34:58 am »
For my information please, why is the number of power cycles important?  :-//

Not so important in this case aside from determining how much use it's had or the potential for data corruption, but it's a metric in failure analysis.

If you sold an oscilloscope that had a days use on it and a thousand boots it would look very suspicious. Manufacturers love to know this as users often say "I used it now and again now it's broken (sad face)" when they actually drove it into the ground 10hrs a day every day for 5 years straight.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline JohnPen

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #203 on: August 20, 2015, 08:21:45 am »
My DS1054Z is DS1ZA17100XXXX received in UK June this year and does 'freeze'.  Already logged on 'freeze' poll.

Update:  My boot version is also 0.0.1.2

 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #204 on: August 20, 2015, 08:22:22 am »
For my information please, why is the number of power cycles important?  :-//

Not so important in this case aside from determining how much use it's had or the potential for data corruption, but it's a metric in failure analysis.

If you sold an oscilloscope that had a days use on it and a thousand boots it would look very suspicious. Manufacturers love to know this as users often say "I used it now and again now it's broken (sad face)" when they actually drove it into the ground 10hrs a day every day for 5 years straight.
Exactly.

But don't forget these DSO's like any equipment WILL be superseded in time and then potential purchasers will be looking for the DSO that has a low boot count # or low operating hours.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Penguin36

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #205 on: August 20, 2015, 08:26:09 am »
Thank you for the answers. I understand that the total runtime is important, but not the number of boots.
When I buy a car, I want to know the total km or miles, but not how many times the car has been started.

 

Offline Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #206 on: August 20, 2015, 08:48:07 am »
Thank you for the answers. I understand that the total runtime is important, but not the number of boots.
When I buy a car, I want to know the total km or miles, but not how many times the car has been started.

I understand your point, but it's still important information despite your analogy, the hobbyist or the "average car buyer" might not care, at least until their new oscilloscope/car engine freezes.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Penguin36

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #207 on: August 20, 2015, 08:52:17 am »
Thank you for the answers. I understand that the total runtime is important, but not the number of boots.
When I buy a car, I want to know the total km or miles, but not how many times the car has been started.

I understand your point, but it's still important information despite your analogy, the hobbyist or the "average car buyer" might not care, at least until their new oscilloscope/car engine freezes.

Got that  ;)
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #208 on: August 20, 2015, 09:09:58 am »
Actually... the car analogy is a good one, because most of the wear on an internal combustion engine occurs within a few minutes of startup, when oil is not fully distributed and parts are undergoing thermal expansion. A car that has 50 thousand miles on the engine, mostly long-duration highway trips at constant RPM, will have much less internal wear than the same model, with 50 thousand miles of short trips to the corner store and back.

Something similar happens with electronic gear as well. If a scope has a combination of on-time and startup cycles that indicates it was turned on at 9 am and turned off at 5 pm every day for a year, that scope is probably less stressed than one with the same total time but 10x the number of start cycles, like it was turned on every half-hour during its year of usage. Every time you turn on a piece of electronic gear, it undergoes stresses both thermal and electrical that aren't experienced during constant running. This is especially true of vacuum-tube equipment, and also equipment with moving parts like hard disk drives.

Even Rigol specifies that their scopes should be on for at least half an hour before running the self-cal routine, and most anybody who uses scopes and other test equipment knows that allowing a half-hour warmup, even for digital equipment, is good practice before trying to  make precise quantitative measurements. If I were buying used test equipment, I'd much rather have high time and low start cycles, than the other way around. Within reason of course.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #209 on: August 20, 2015, 09:20:04 am »
Memory Depth set to "Auto" ? This appears to be one of the conditions for freezing.
What do you get in the file when you ask the scope to save a "Param" file?
Storage>Storage>Param and Save to USB stick
The file should contain more information about the software, firmware and board numbers.
Model:DS1xxxZ
SN:DS1ZA170xxxxxx
Manufacturer:RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES
Board Ver:0.1.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.3.11
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.2
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.04.03.SP1

Memory Depth is set to "Auto" by default on bootup on mine. I did also toggle it at least once while testing and could not reproduce it. I suggest setting your scope to full defaults and trying, as well as doing this next time you complete a firmware update.

Model:DS1xxxZ
SN:DS1ZA17140xxxx
Manufacturer:RIGOL TECHNOLOGIES
Board Ver:0.1.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.3.11
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.3
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.04.03

Boot code is different, does it get updated at all by a firmware update?

I think I've done just about every combination of settings possible while researching and documenting this bug and others. I even think I've got a video up showing the bug, starting from "full defaults" as you say and only changing two things: language to English and Persistence to 100 ms, and insuring that "Auto" is set in Mem Depth. And I've documented it with two different firmware versions on my scope. Yes, I tried it immediately after updating to 00.04.03.SP1.

As far as I am aware the only thing that gets updated when the user does a "firmware" update with a .gel file is what the scope calls "SoftWare". The other values (board, "Firmware", BOOT, and CPLD) do not change, in any case that I have seen. The Model Number does change when the scope is unlocked, and changes back when the unlocking is removed using the SCPI uninstall command.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #210 on: August 20, 2015, 11:49:51 am »
Yeah so in case I didn't stress, on your next update restore everything to defaults and power cycle before flashing. That is likely what they do in QA testing, my current money is on boot code version there is definitely something unique in that serial though, possibly geography and batch.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #211 on: August 20, 2015, 04:35:18 pm »
Did you guys with Boot Ver:0.0.1.2 get your oscilloscopes with a version less than 00.04.00.00.00?

*** Warning be careful not to accidentally update trying this ***
If you have Boot Ver:0.0.1.2 as a test you could try grabbing
http://gotroot.ca/rigol/DS1000Z-04_00_00_00.7z
Then extract the DS1000ZUpdate.GEL from the Sparrow(Boot)update_00.04.00.00.00 folder
Copy it on a formatted FAT32 USB key and then insert into the already booted oscilloscope (see below image).
*** Cancel it ***

I suspect it pulls the version number from just the .GEL file so it thinks you're already past 00.04.00.00.00 which might be the actual issue. I have no idea what the process is for updating the Boot code or downgrading in general. I wonder if the instructions ever covered it in the past.

If that doesn't work perhaps someone who has CCS Code Composer Studio could extract the hex files out of the Boot code .GEL file (no idea if possible) and determine the version from there?

Q1: Does anyone know what the bootloader keypress on boot is?
Q2: Is there any firmware update since 00.04.00.00.00 that also has Boot code?
Version 00.04.03.01.05 Date 2015-06-16
Version 00.04.03.00.01 Date 2015-05-05
Version 00.04.02.04.07 Date 2014-12-31
Version 00.04.02.03.00 Date 2014-10-21
Version 00.04.01.02.00 Date 2014-07-28
Version 00.04.00.00.00 Date ?
Version 00.02.03.05.00 Date ?

I'm running Boot Ver:0.0.1.3 so this is what I get when I insert 0.04.00.00.00 Boot code:
« Last Edit: August 24, 2015, 06:36:11 pm by Shock »
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #212 on: August 21, 2015, 02:07:48 am »
Well, when I do that I get exactly the same screen.

No, my scope was delivered with 00.04.02 "firmware" (what the scope calls "SoftWare"), and I have since updated it several times.

What is this supposed to prove?
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Shock

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #213 on: August 21, 2015, 02:44:15 am »
Well, when I do that I get exactly the same screen.
No, my scope was delivered with 00.04.02 "firmware" (what the scope calls "SoftWare"), and I have since updated it several times.
What is this supposed to prove?

Was trying to see if the oscilloscope recognized 00.04.00.00.00 Boot code .GEL file as an upgrade or a downgrade on a BOOT Ver:0.0.1.2 oscilloscope. My suspicion is it does not pull the version number from the Hex file so could actually be BOOT Ver:0.0.1.3 for all we know.
Soldering/Rework: Pace ADS200, Pace MBT350
Multimeters: Fluke 87V, 117, 27/FM       >>> WANTED STUFF <<<
Oszilloskopen: Lecroy 9314, Phillips PM3065, Tektronix 2215a, 314
 

Offline rezasurmar

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #214 on: October 22, 2015, 07:47:27 am »
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #215 on: October 22, 2015, 02:18:17 pm »
Has anyone tested firmware 00.04.03.01.05 ?
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ph4ff16d9s85tkt/AAA3UeuWQsdGbA_OfDkqiBlVa?dl=0

Yes, many people. This is the "firmware" that the Scope reports as "00.04.03.SP1" on the System Information screen. This SoftWare version may not always reset Mem Depth to "Auto" when the scope starts up, so it may be harder to get the scope to start up frozen, but it is still possible to get the scope to freeze if the conditions are met while the scope is up and running.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Fennec

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #216 on: October 27, 2015, 07:41:15 pm »
I check the new firmware.  :palm:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/msg786999/#msg786999

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/msg787154/#msg787154

Did a quick check.

This firmware is incredible crap !

Freeze bug does'nt fixed
Math issue does'nt fixed
50┬Ás timebase / trigger issue seems to be fixed... Iam not sure, maybe someone else can check it too.

BUT

I feel the whole scope is much slower.
The probe devider setting is a procedure like hell now. Pain in the ass. Useless  < My knob is broken.
If I turn on all 4 channels and the brightness changes with the memory settings. The channels are flickering now.

I play a little with this firmware and change back to SP1 that's for sure.
/Edited
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 08:13:58 pm by Fennec »
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #217 on: October 27, 2015, 07:53:21 pm »
Glad I read around, I was about to buy a 1054Z. It seems to be a complete firmware fuckup, though. Random freezes are not a sign of good code quality, and I don't know what they're doing with these firmware releases considering they've yet to fix the bugs. Supposedly the DS2k series are much better, which is a bit surprising considering they're probably both done by the same poor programmers.

Rigol - the freeze bug should be first priority. How is it you're unable to fix an obvious bug like this? Someone in your firmware team doesn't know how to manage memory. One of these days it's going to trample on some important memory, like its own whilst performing an upgrade...
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Offline Fennec

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #218 on: October 27, 2015, 08:21:13 pm »
Aw, not really. This freeze bug is not really a problem. If you know it, try to not use the 100 persist time.
But u are right, few of this issues are much older than 6 month and Rigol didnt fix them ?? Idk why.

I bet u will find some issues on the DS2k too. There are much much more ds1054Z on the marked so there are also more user to find the bugs.

This scope is fine for the money, idk why I should buy a DS2k.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #219 on: October 27, 2015, 08:30:25 pm »
It's fine for the money, if it were a crap brand like Siglent or Hantek or Owon or something - you expect terrible firmware from them, they've perfected the art of engineering half decent hardware and then having a herd of starving interns in a cage cobble together the firmware while fighting for scraps of bread... Rigol so far, since the 1052E, has had a reputation for putting extra effort into general firmware and UX quality - a reputation they seem to have upheld in the DS2k series, but one it seems they've abused a bit in the DS1kZ. It looks shiny, but it looks like they may have polished a turd.

That said, I like Rigol and will probably go on with my purchase of a DS2k. But come on, guys, fix your shit!
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #220 on: October 28, 2015, 10:16:16 am »
Glad I read around, I was about to buy a 1054Z. It seems to be a complete firmware fuckup, though. Random freezes are not a sign of good code quality
The freezing isn't random, it's a particular set of circumstances.

You probably won't see it in normal use (I never have).

I wouldn't stop buying one because of that.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #221 on: October 28, 2015, 03:54:50 pm »
Well, I discovered the freezebug in my "normal" use of the scope, but I realize my "normal" might not be the same "normal" as other people's.   :-DD

I agree that this shouldn't prevent someone from purchasing the scope, but at the present time I'm _not_ going to install this latest firmware "update" due to the problems others have reported, and especially since it doesn't seem to fix the two most important bugs: the Math horizontal error and the freeze bug.

These bugs only happen with some very specific settings though, so they should not interfere with "normal" use of the scope, especially if you are aware of the conditions. The Math horizontal error is a tricky one, though, and could bite you if you are relying on a correct Math result and inadvertently hit just the right combination of settings to produce it. Or if there is some other combo that we haven't found yet.

Come on RIGOL.... get your act together. This is a fine product for the price,  and needs properly functioning software to go with it.


The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #222 on: October 29, 2015, 01:36:51 pm »
I've just had email from Jason the Rigol USA tech who I notified about the FreezeBug back several months ago. He didn't know about the latest firmware SP2 !!   :palm:

But now he does.   



The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Fennec

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #223 on: October 30, 2015, 04:53:36 am »
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 07:11:58 am by Fennec »
 

Offline RigolUS_Apps

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #224 on: October 30, 2015, 08:29:47 pm »
Hello Everyone,

This is Jason Chonko and I am an Applications Engineer at Rigol Technologies USA.

We appreciate the passion that the members of EEVBlog have for their products and the community of Test and Measurement.

In order to effectively troubleshoot these types of problems, we encourage you to contact your local support offices if you are experiencing issues with any of our products.

We believe that the latest software release Version 00.04.03SP2 (00.04.03.02.03 in Engineering Mode) addresses the reported lock up and math bugs.

To check and display the full system information:
- In the trigger area on the front panel, quickly press MENU > MENU > FORCE > MENU
- In the menu area, press UTILITY > SYSTEM > SYSTEM INFO
- Save a copy of the display by inserting a USB memory device (FAT32 format) into the front panel USB slot and press the Quick Print icon

The instrument should report that the Software Version is 00.04.03SP2 (identical to 00.04.03.02.03).

If it does not, please upgrade your instrument to the latest revision.

The latest release of firmware for the DS1000Z series can be requested from this registration page:
http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/001e:d-0001/0/-/-/-/-/index.htm?

If you continue to have difficulties with your oscilloscope, please contact your local Rigol Support Office with the full instrument identification information.

Rigol North American Technical Support:
http://www.rigolna.com/tech-support/

Rigol European Technical Support:
http://www.rigol.eu/tech-support/

Rigol Support for other geographies:
EMD_support@rigol.com
« Last Edit: November 02, 2015, 03:29:34 pm by RigolUS_Apps »
 


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