Poll

Can you reproduce the Freeze-up Bug as described in this thread?

Yes, can reproduce the freezing.
42 (40.4%)
No, can't reproduce the freezing.
62 (59.6%)

Total Members Voted: 99

Author Topic: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??  (Read 131404 times)

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Offline Scottjd

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #400 on: November 23, 2015, 06:28:08 pm »
Hi,

okay, the same with my scope.

I load the measurement settings from **4017, feed in 2x 10MHz sinewave ~5Vpp (rubudium vs GPS test setup) CH1 x10 (probe) CH2 via RG58 direct x1, trigger set CH1. It stops counting at 1k81. All funktions are working, but without counting forward. I tried it few times. Only the counter time is different.

"Measure all" also hangs. I tried to restart the counter with "statistic on/off, math on/off, reset... the couter set to "0" but still wouldn't count or restart. The only way (seems) cycle the power button.

Latest firmware (SP2) on boot version 0.0.1.2

Maybe Rigol can find an "internal procedure"  like flash a new firmware / boot version via JTAG or something like that. I would try that. Better we can fix this issues little complicated as I send my scope back, become a new one with 0.0.1.3 and have the same failures again ;(

If RIDOL needs a DS1054Z with boot version 0.0.1.2. to test it, I got one..    ;(

@ alsetalokin4017

* MeasureFail.zip (0.86 kB - downloaded 6 times.)  :--

Looks like most here are not really interested in a working scope. Maybe you are right, they have buy it, to watch the beautiful colorized traces the whole day.  :-//

The counter bug doesn't seem to be related to the boot version. This is looking like a SP2 code issue, so no need to swap them unless you have the freeze lockup bug explained earlier a few pages back.
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Offline Fennec

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #401 on: November 23, 2015, 06:39:12 pm »
Ya, I have the freeze bug too. I can reproduce all the bugs posted here and in the other thread ;(
 

Offline timofonic

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #402 on: November 23, 2015, 07:20:01 pm »
Welcome to Rigolws 95,  Second Edition,  Service Pack 2:The Bug's Revenge Strikes Back Again, this is the last one we promise (tm).
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #403 on: November 23, 2015, 07:59:19 pm »
Thanks for your reports.

I see some people are calling this a "counter bug". It is important to note that _ALL_ measurements stop working, every single one, whether you have them selected currently when the bug hits or not. Only the Hardware Frequency Counter still works. All measurements, the "All Measure" table included, stop working, as far as I can tell. I have just been using the Statistics, Difference mode windows because they contain a sample counter, so that you can tell how long it takes for the bug to hit. It is not necessary to have the Stats windows up, the measurements will still stop working even if you only have the basic measurements, in the regular small fonts, showing. When they stop, ALL measurements now fail to work. The only way to get any valid measurements back, as far as I can tell, is to reboot the scope. And then it may only be a short time until they stop again. This is a Measure Fail bug, not just a "counter bug".

I've been running tests on both the Old Scope (with Boot version 0.0.1.2) and the New Scope (Boot 0.0.1.3), side by side, and they both have this bug. Both are running SP2 firmware.  Sometimes it takes a long time for it to show up, sometimes it takes just a few seconds or a minute. It does seem that signal inputs are needed, I think.... but maybe not.

Here are some "stop counts" that I experienced over the night, using an actual bench setup that I'm using to try to monitor efficiency of an actual circuit that I'm working on. All these tests were at Average acquisition mode, 8 averages, 3M memory depth, with 3 channels + Math active, 2 us/div timebase, 5 measurements displayed:

Old Scope:
stopped at 7k14
stopped at 8k326
(still running at over 19k with no input signals)
stopped at 5k171
stopped at 279
stopped at 4k51

New Scope:
(still running at over 23k with no input signals)
stopped at 715
stopped at 10k272
stopped at 1k37
stopped at 3k910 with no input signals!
(still running at 13k240 with no input signals)

So at 3 or 4 sample counts per second it could take an hour or more for the measurements to stop, or it could take as little as one minute or even less.

I agree that this bug should probably have its own thread, with a poll to keep track of it, but I'm too busy at the moment to start one up.

I have not yet heard back from Jason at Rigol USA. It's 2 pm here in Central Texas as I write this, so it's just 12 noon in Oregon. I imagine he's pretty busy right now too.


The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline kalvenk

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #404 on: November 24, 2015, 05:40:37 am »
It looks strange that for my scope, it turns out that the measurement (with math on) freezing can be prevented if I turned on the function "measure->Measure All” at initial or before freezing. It somehow helps in preventing freezing but not resuming after freezing. Does anyone get the same finding as what I found?


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Offline JohnPen

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #405 on: November 24, 2015, 09:16:46 am »
I had 'measure all' on for some runs but it made no difference to the 'measure freeze' condition it just seems to turn up at random but usually only a few k counts.  I also tried not using the 'stat difference' setting but it still failed within similar time frames.  It would seem to be a s/w (f/w) bug associated with the MATH s/w functionality.  In the past I did some work on testing stats counting on ATM equipment and it regularly had inaccuracies due to poor s/w.   The h/w was always spot on and sadly very simple tests often picked up the failures in the s/w almost immediately.   Such is life.
 

Offline Fennec

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #406 on: November 24, 2015, 03:16:17 pm »
I see some people are calling this a "counter bug". It is important to note that _ALL_ measurements stop working, every single one, whether you have them selected currently when the bug hits or not.
Ya, with "counter" I meant the measurements in all windows. It's my bad english.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #407 on: November 25, 2015, 05:50:37 pm »
Well, I suppose the "workaround" for this one is just to keep Math set up but turned OFF until you are ready to actually record some Math values or traces, then turn Math ON for as short a time as possible, then turn it OFF again, so that the measurements don't crash while you are working.

I did this last night on some work, and the scope went for like 17k sample counts with Math off, then I turned Math ON and the measurements crashed after another 763 counts. So .... work fast and you might be able to avoid having to reboot every few minutes.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline kalvenk

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #408 on: November 28, 2015, 02:20:38 pm »
Well, I suppose the "workaround" for this one is just to keep Math set up but turned OFF until you are ready to actually record some Math values or traces, then turn Math ON for as short a time as possible, then turn it OFF again, so that the measurements don't crash while you are working.

I did this last night on some work, and the scope went for like 17k sample counts with Math off, then I turned Math ON and the measurements crashed after another 763 counts. So .... work fast and you might be able to avoid having to reboot every few minutes.

Have you tried to turn the "measure->all" on and it may helps to avoid freezing. For me, it works well and I could reach 30k count more and still no measurement freezing by turning on the "measure-All".

 

Offline JohnPen

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #409 on: November 28, 2015, 04:48:44 pm »
My DS1054Z, on SP2 latest f/w, always freezes with a 1Mhz square signal on 2 channels and a couple of rise time measurements plus MATH.  Any measuring category including 'Measure All' works OK until one turns on 'Maths' as well.  Shortly after 'Maths On' measure stats will freeze. Normally with under a thousand sample counts.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #410 on: November 29, 2015, 04:08:35 am »

Have you tried to turn the "measure->all" on and it may helps to avoid freezing. For me, it works well and I could reach 30k count more and still no measurement freezing by turning on the "measure-All".

kalvenk, your scopeshot is very interesting. You are showing two nice symmetrical sine waves that are perfectly in phase and of the same displayed amplitude, as nearly as I can figure. And you would agree, I hope, that 0 x 0 = 0. Yet, that is not what the Math trace says.

You didn't position your channel zero-voltage baselines precisely on graticule lines, but I've marked up your scopeshot to show the baselines and the zero-crossings of the two sine waves, as precisely as I could, and I've also indicated the corresponding time points on the Math trace. Only in a couple of places does the Math trace come close to agreeing with what we would get by multiplying the traces by hand or in a spreadsheet from a data dump.

I've noted the very severe horizontal error that happens to the Math trace when the timebase is set to 500 ns/div, but here you are using a different timebase, and still getting a significant horizontal error in the Math.  Congratulations! You've actually discovered Yet Another horizontal Math error bug, I think !   :palm:

I can see that you are running the SP2 firmware (by the fact that your Horizontal Measurement Menu has 4 page-dots instead of three). So I don't know why you have been able to run to 30k measurements without stopping. I don't think it's because of the All Measure table being up, as that doesn't work for me or for others who have tried it and reported. Maybe there is some other setting or option that is helping your scope run along, or maybe the random nature of the bug means you just haven't waited long enough on this particular test run.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 04:15:47 am by alsetalokin4017 »
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Offline JohnPen

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #411 on: November 29, 2015, 11:06:52 am »
I have duplicated kalvenk's set up with the same frequency and a parallel feed from my FY3200S of a 5 volt sine wave.  I agree that the MATH trace is displaying a second harmonic of the 6.04981 Mhz but in my scope's case I do not see any horizontal displacement. To clarify the MATH trace is definitely locked to the original waveform but it displays a peak when CH1 and 2 are at a minimum and has 2 cycles to the 1 cycle of the original waveform.  However there is a cyclic  ~2 nsec twitch in the MATH trace position of the MATH trace , that I haven't pinned down yet.  I really must sort out uploading screen prints!
 

Offline kalvenk

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #412 on: November 29, 2015, 12:49:24 pm »
kalvenk, your scopeshot is very interesting. You are showing two nice symmetrical sine waves that are perfectly in phase and of the same displayed amplitude, as nearly as I can figure. And you would agree, I hope, that 0 x 0 = 0. Yet, that is not what the Math trace says.

You didn't position your channel zero-voltage baselines precisely on graticule lines, but I've marked up your scopeshot to show the baselines and the zero-crossings of the two sine waves, as precisely as I could, and I've also indicated the corresponding time points on the Math trace. Only in a couple of places does the Math trace come close to agreeing with what we would get by multiplying the traces by hand or in a spreadsheet from a data dump.

I've noted the very severe horizontal error that happens to the Math trace when the timebase is set to 500 ns/div, but here you are using a different timebase, and still getting a significant horizontal error in the Math.  Congratulations! You've actually discovered Yet Another horizontal Math error bug, I think !   :palm:

I can see that you are running the SP2 firmware (by the fact that your Horizontal Measurement Menu has 4 page-dots instead of three). So I don't know why you have been able to run to 30k measurements without stopping. I don't think it's because of the All Measure table being up, as that doesn't work for me or for others who have tried it and reported. Maybe there is some other setting or option that is helping your scope run along, or maybe the random nature of the bug means you just haven't waited long enough on this particular test run.
Oops, yes you are right that the math multiplication output is incorrect. I didn’t pay much attention on the actual math result; instead, my eyes were much focusing on whether the counting is freezing or not. Thanks for finding this error. One thing, the input signal was fed from FY3224s signal generator running sweeping mode between 1Mhz~10Mhz 10v.   Have posted here also my scope’s info.

Back to the measurement freezing issue, if I turn off the “measure-All” then the measurements will freeze sooner or later after few hundred counts or less. However, if I turn it on, then it just goes ok apparently. The counting speed is around 1 tick/second during measure-all turned ON. The counting speed increases to be 3 ticks/second when measure-all is off. Not sure if the freezing issue has to do with the speed of counting.  :-//

 

Offline kalvenk

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #413 on: November 29, 2015, 12:58:43 pm »
I have duplicated kalvenk's set up with the same frequency and a parallel feed from my FY3200S of a 5 volt sine wave.  I agree that the MATH trace is displaying a second harmonic of the 6.04981 Mhz but in my scope's case I do not see any horizontal displacement. To clarify the MATH trace is definitely locked to the original waveform but it displays a peak when CH1 and 2 are at a minimum and has 2 cycles to the 1 cycle of the original waveform.  However there is a cyclic  ~2 nsec twitch in the MATH trace position of the MATH trace , that I haven't pinned down yet.  I really must sort out uploading screen prints!
Sorry for the confusing, my setup signal was sweep mode running between 1Mhz~10Mhz 10v generated from FY3224s. Possibly the math trace (ch1Xch2) was unable to catch up the change of input frequency and that was why the horizontal displacement happening during my screen capture.
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #414 on: November 29, 2015, 03:24:47 pm »
I have duplicated kalvenk's set up with the same frequency and a parallel feed from my FY3200S of a 5 volt sine wave.  I agree that the MATH trace is displaying a second harmonic of the 6.04981 Mhz but in my scope's case I do not see any horizontal displacement. To clarify the MATH trace is definitely locked to the original waveform but it displays a peak when CH1 and 2 are at a minimum and has 2 cycles to the 1 cycle of the original waveform.  However there is a cyclic  ~2 nsec twitch in the MATH trace position of the MATH trace , that I haven't pinned down yet.  I really must sort out uploading screen prints!
Sorry for the confusing, my setup signal was sweep mode running between 1Mhz~10Mhz 10v generated from FY3224s. Possibly the math trace (ch1Xch2) was unable to catch up the change of input frequency and that was why the horizontal displacement happening during my screen capture.

Ah... yes, the sweeping may indeed account for the horizontal error in the Math, because it does take a little time for the Math to respond to changes in the input signals. I think that if you repeat the same setup but use a fixed ~ 6Mhz signal there might be a better correspondence between the Math trace and a manual multiplication of the input signals. Except at 500 ns/div... the bug that happens there is from some other cause.

JohnPen, the Math is being "honest" about the 2-for-1 peak relationships. It's not really showing a "harmonic" but simply the product of the multiplication of values. When you multiply two negative numbers (the sine wave values at the lowest valleys) you get a positive number, and of course two positive numbers have a positive product, so the math should have peaks at both the input signal's valleys and the peaks. And it does. There is just that horizontal error (really a slight scale error) that is hopefully due to kalvenk's use of a sweeping input rather than one that is steady over time.

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Offline JohnPen

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #415 on: November 29, 2015, 05:13:11 pm »
Yes I should have remembered that.  With various fixed frequencies there is no sign of any horizontal error except maybe for the ~2nsec twitch I see on the MATH output.  I believe the twitch effect is multiplied as well as I can see that the triggering itself is twitching very slightly.  Repeated single shots show a small variation in trigger point so I believe I am fighting physics.  I have tried an alternative sine generator with a similar result.
 

Offline kalvenk

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #416 on: December 01, 2015, 12:11:36 pm »
... I think that if you repeat the same setup but use a fixed ~ 6Mhz signal there might be a better correspondence between the Math trace and a manual multiplication of the input signals. Except at 500 ns/div... the bug that happens there is from some other cause.

Based on alsetalokin3017's comment, I redo the test by feeding in a fix 6Mhz sine wave for both ch1 and ch2. Yes the math trace looks correct now.

During the test, I have also turned on "measure All" all the time and that allows scope's measurement to be continue without freezing and it did reach 133k391 counts and should be fine to go further.   However, once I turned off "measure Al", the measurement freezes and stop working after few hundred counts.


 

Offline timofonic

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #417 on: December 01, 2015, 08:26:29 pm »
I just receive DS1000Z Firmware Released version: 00.04.03.02.03 with Release Date: 10/20/2015 from Rigol.
Any changelog?
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #418 on: December 01, 2015, 08:33:04 pm »
I just receive DS1000Z Firmware Released version: 00.04.03.02.03 with Release Date: 10/20/2015 from Rigol.
Darn, you beat me to it. I was reviewing the change log and got a phone call.
I noticed this version ends in .03
I think the one posted in the thread for testing was .01
So I'm shure they have a few fixes maybe now that they have a scope that doe the freeze, and the change log spells pluses correctly, so hopefully also the firmware does  :-BROKE

So for those that will be trying this firmware I only have 2 questions.

1. Does it still cause a slow down like in .01?

2. Can this one be backed out and reversed back to SP1 if need be?

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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #419 on: December 01, 2015, 09:20:22 pm »
Note that freeze up bugs are also present in the Tektronix MDO3000, for the Tektronix aficionados out here :)




 

Offline Marcos

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #420 on: December 01, 2015, 11:01:38 pm »
I just receive DS1000Z Firmware Released version: 00.04.03.02.03 with Release Date: 10/20/2015 from Rigol.
Darn, you beat me to it. I was reviewing the change log and got a phone call.
I noticed this version ends in .03
I think the one posted in the thread for testing was .01
So I'm shure they have a few fixes maybe now that they have a scope that doe the freeze, and the change log spells pluses correctly, so hopefully also the firmware does  :-BROKE

So for those that will be trying this firmware I only have 2 questions.

1. Does it still cause a slow down like in .01?

2. Can this one be backed out and reversed back to SP1 if need be?

But for me it looks the same version as SP2. What's new here ?
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #421 on: December 02, 2015, 02:16:17 am »
Marcos:
It is the same, I made a mistake here.  I'm sorry for the False Alarm.  :palm:
The SP2 that was released in this thread I think was build .01 and this one ends in .03 with a few fixes.
I think that they have a scope now that freezes I hope they fixed that, and maybe the spelling of pluses.
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Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #422 on: December 02, 2015, 05:06:49 am »
Marcos:
It is the same, I made a mistake here.  I'm sorry for the False Alarm.  :palm:
The SP2 that was released in this thread I think was build .01 and this one ends in .03 with a few fixes.
I think that they have a scope now that freezes I hope they fixed that, and maybe the spelling of pluses.

No, that's not right either, unless they have released two different versions with the _same_ number/name. Which is possible, considering the source, I suppose.

The version 00.04.03.02.03 archive contains a .GEL file that was created on September 11, 2015. See the first image below, which shows the directory listing of this archive.
 
This is the firmware that is identified by the scope as 00.04.03.SP2 in the normal short-form System Information screen, and it contains the Pluses spelling error. See the next two images below.

Yes, they now have my old scope (#2) that has the Boot Version 0.0.1.2 and I'm sure they will be able to get it to freeze. That scope also freezes while running the 00.04.03.02.03  (SP2)   firmware. The Freeze Bug, I believe, is related to the Boot Version, not the "firmware" updates that the user can install from a .GEL file. I haven't gotten any further input from Rigol USA about it, or about the Measurements Fail bug yet, though.
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Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #423 on: December 02, 2015, 05:12:20 am »
And no, there is still apparently no way to back out to an earlier version of a firmware once a later one has been installed. At least no way that I know about, and I've asked Rigol USA about this too, several times, and haven't gotten any kind of answer.

If anyone knows of a way to roll back to earlier firmware PLEASE post the information here !!
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Scottjd

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Re: Rigol DS1054Z Freeze-up Bug Confirmed ??
« Reply #424 on: December 02, 2015, 08:36:55 am »
And no, there is still apparently no way to back out to an earlier version of a firmware once a later one has been installed. At least no way that I know about, and I've asked Rigol USA about this too, several times, and haven't gotten any kind of answer.

If anyone knows of a way to roll back to earlier firmware PLEASE post the information here !!

So they just official released the one they posted a couple weeks ago for testing in this forum conversation?
Did they even bother to check back with the comment about people saying it slowed the scope down.
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