Rigol DS1054Z rotary encoder mod *works!*

[tooki]

Also, for what it's worth, the original encoders in my THT board appear to be from a called LJV.

I suspect that the original encoders are their "RE11 Low Profile Rotary Encoder". (I must say that I enjoy how the non-detented ones are pine green, while the detented ones are lime green.)

[smartislav]

TL;DR
For keyboard v01.02 (with 1:2 SMD encoders), these THT panel-mount encoders https://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/652-PEC11L4215FS0015
can easily be converted to SMD. I just did it and it works just fine.


The only thing is, it might be a little bit too fast. The controller skips steps sometimes.
Another option (with fewer steps) is https://nl.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Bourns/PEC11R-4215F-S0012 but it's only rated for 30000 cycles (against 100000 for the first one). Also, it's not low-profile. Not sure if it fits or not. It's temperature range is slightly different, too. So I'm not sure if it's just estimated within a different confidence interval or something.

[klausES]

The encoder you are using now has 30 detents 15 pulses.
This corresponds to the last theses for locking encoders that could work with this board and the software.
He also has an overlap of 50% (unfortunately, my first attempt with an Alps didn't have that).

What I'm interested in.
Is your encoder (30 detent, 15 impulses) when slowly turning now exactly one menu item or two from one detent to the next?

My question is, because with the original encoder with 20 pulses everyone is used for jumps,
Your current one at 15, whether the software interprets 30 or the real 15 from it.

If a brisk turn leads more often to errors such as skipping a menu item (I noticed that often in my attempts)
a 24 (or 20) detent with 12 (or 10) pulses would probably be more suitable for this board.

[smartislav]

Is your encoder (30 detent, 15 impulses) when slowly turning now exactly one menu item or two from one detent to the next?

Yep, exactly one.

My question is, because with the original encoder with 20 pulses everyone is used for jumps,
Your current one at 15, whether the software interprets 30 or the real 15 from it.

If a brisk turn leads more often to errors such as skipping a menu item (I noticed that often in my attempts)
a 24 (or 20) detent with 12 (or 10) pulses would probably be more suitable for this board.

It does jump. I'm not 100% satisfied with the replacement.

The problem is, after you turn it quickly, the firmware on the board might get confused. Some of the subsequent turns might be missed.
But if you only ever turn it slowly, it works just fine.

I should've put a scope on the signal traces to debug the issue, but alas. It might be caused by my rework of the PCB pads I tore off. Another possible cause is different signal filtering requirements.

[klausES]

The knob, which is very small in diameter, favors a very fast pulse sequence when it is turned quickly between the fingers.
A larger knob would defuse that, but it is not a nice solution.

Therefore 24 detent with 12 impulses could probably cause fewer problems.

[tooki]

From what I can tell, for everyone with a board using the 1:1 THT encoders, the optimal Alps part number is STEC11B13 (EC11, 20mm shaft, with button, 20 detents, 20 pulses; AKA EC11B20244), and the equivalent Bourns (which is an active part) is PEC11L-4120F-S0020 (PEC11L, 20mm shaft, with switch, 20 detents, 20 pulses).

For those with a 2:1 SMD encoder board, it'd be one of the following Alps models:
EC11J0924411
EC11J1524413 <-- probably this one
EC11J0925403
EC11J1525402

Those differ in number of detents/pulses (# of pulses in red) and button travel (in green, 4=0.5mm, 5=1.5mm travel). My guess is that 0.5mm travel is probably the right one, but I don't know whether 9 or 15 pulses is better. AFAIK, either will work, just at different speeds obviously. Given that Bourns only makes this in a 30-detent/15-pulse version, my hunch is that the second one (in bold) is likely what Rigol is using, insofar as the Chinese clones will also probably be of the most widely available type. The equivalent Bourns part is PEC11S-9220F-S0015.

So I ordered a PEC11L-4120F-S0020 for my scope, and when it arrived, I was surprised to discover it's 5mm longer than the original. Turns out that on the plastic-shaft encoders, they include the encoder body in the shaft length, while on the metal-shaft ones, they don't!    So when I went by the 20mm shaft spec on the 12mm plastic encoder people recommended earlier, it actually required a 15mm shaft in metal.

I now have a PEC11L-4115F-S0020 on the way. But for the SMD models, I don't know what to suggest. Nobody seems to stock the 15mm shaft SMD version of the Bourns (PEC11S-9215F-S0015), and Alps doesn't even have a part number for a 15mm SMD version!

I'll update the post accordingly.

Oh yeah, I forgot to update here!

The PEC11L-4115F-S0020 is a perfect fit in my THT version of the scope. It works perfectly, too. The only thing is, the detent force is way, way higher than in the detented encoders the scope came with for e.g. horizontal scale/timebase . If I had a vacuum desoldering gun, I’d consider swapping them, since the larger knob of the timebase makes the larger force less noticeable. For example, the strong detents are a bit annoying when moving cursors.

With that said, it’s still way better to use than with the no-detent encoder. I’d rather be slightly annoyed when moving cursors than be constantly infuriated when trying to use menus.

[KK1L]

It does jump. I'm not 100% satisfied with the replacement.

The problem is, after you turn it quickly, the firmware on the board might get confused. Some of the subsequent turns might be missed.
But if you only ever turn it slowly, it works just fine.

I should've put a scope on the signal traces to debug the issue, but alas. It might be caused by my rework of the PCB pads I tore off. Another possible cause is different signal filtering requirements.

Which one did you use? I am sorry it is not clear to me....the 24/12 or the 30/15? I get the impression it is the 30/15. Did you try the 24/12 and were the results better?

I think I have the SMD version, but have not removed the board yet. I am ordering both the TH and SM versions to cover my bases   I would like to get an SM one which works or I have no problem converting a TH to SM.

What I have in my "cart" at Newark...
EC12E2424407 in case board is through hole 30-200 gf-cm torque
EC11J1524413 in case SMD (30:15) 70-170 gf-cm torque
PEC11R-4215F-S0012 in case SMD (24:12) 30-90 gf-cm torque

73 es God Bless de KK1L, Ron <><

[KK1L]

It does jump. I'm not 100% satisfied with the replacement.

The problem is, after you turn it quickly, the firmware on the board might get confused. Some of the subsequent turns might be missed.
But if you only ever turn it slowly, it works just fine.

I should've put a scope on the signal traces to debug the issue, but alas. It might be caused by my rework of the PCB pads I tore off. Another possible cause is different signal filtering requirements.

Which one did you use? I am sorry it is not clear to me....the 24/12 or the 30/15? I get the impression it is the 30/15. Did you try the 24/12 and were the results better?

I think I have the SMD version, but have not removed the board yet. I am ordering both the TH and SM versions to cover my bases   I would like to get an SM one which works or I have no problem converting a TH to SM.

What I have in my "cart" at Newark...
EC12E2424407 in case board is through hole 30-200 gf-cm torque
EC11J1524413 in case SMD (30:15) 70-170 gf-cm torque
PEC11R-4215F-S0012 in case SMD (24:12) 30-90 gf-cm torque

Folks,

I have completed an encoder upgrade on a 2:1 SMD board. I am super happy with the results.

I used a PEC11R-4215F-S0012 24:12 converted to SMD by gull winging and clipping the leads. To install I cut the leads on the original to remove it. Then it was easy to remove the leftover and not damage the solder pads/lands on the board. This worked out well and I never felt close to lifing the pads. A normal touch with the iron was all that was needed to solder the replacement on the board.

The replacement encoder's shaft sits about 2mm more proud than the original. Ulitmately this is noticable, but not objectionable.

The 24:12 works great. I did not notice any skipping and there is one selection per click. To test it I used a digit selection menu. A fast spin (not roulette wheel fast, but what you might normally do fast) got me from "2" to "7" with what my mind registered as five clicks. I tried that a few times and it all seemed to jive. Selection of an item was flawless. The force to turn the knob is really just about right. It is much easier than the 30:15 in my list above.

Prior to biting the bullet and switching out the encoder I tried adding some friction between the knob and the scope body as suggested earlier in this thread. That did help, but I still needed to be careful and had a good number of missed selections.

While I was in there I added a header to the JTAG port. I have been having a dickens of a time using my SiSpeed debugger (does not dump memory reliablly), so I have an Olimex coming. This will make it that much easier.

73 es God Bless de KK1L, Ron <><

[tooki]

I used a PEC11R-4215F-S0012 24:12 converted to SMD by gull winging and clipping the leads. [...]

The replacement encoder's shaft sits about 2mm more proud than the original. Ulitmately this is noticable, but not objectionable.

Thats because the original encoders are low-profile ones (4.5mm body height), while the PEC11R is a regular height one (6.5mm body height). The PEC11L series is low profile (as is the SMD version, the PEC11S), so you’re seeing exactly the 2mm height difference between them.

I wish Bourns measured all their encoders the way they do the plastic body encoders like the PEC12R: shaft length measured from the board. On the metal ones, they measure shaft length from the top of the body, which as you see is not consistent...

[VasinD]

Just in case someone is still searching for a replacement for original encoders in DS1054Z, I have replaced my original no detents encoders with PEC11R-4015F-S0024, made by Bourns, and they work perfectly fine! I have PCB ver v01.01. PEC11R is a bit higher than original encoders. If you wish to replace encoders with detents, you should use PEC11R-4215F-S0024. Attention! These part names are only for PCB ver v01.01 as someone have already noticed in this thread!!

The reason why I did that, was not to mod my scope, but to repair it. The horizontal scale offset encoder had been dying for several months and finally, in a bad day, when I turned on my scope, I saw no reaction on rotation of horizontal scale offset encoder at all. So I decided to replace all of them at once.

Hope this will save a day for someone  .

[tooki]

No, you should use the PEC11L as I explain above, so that the height is correct.