RIGOL DS1102Z-E

[PatrickB]

Hello,
So I'm not the only one having this problem. I contacted Rigol, 1 year ago (October 2021) and they told me that it is a software problem...
I received my scope in September 2021 with firmware version 00.06.02.
The brightness problem with the 5ns timebase already existed with this version.
Updating with firmware V00.06.03 did not solve the problem.

Version 00.06.02 dates from October 2019, information written in the Release Notes.
So the problem exists since this version and maybe even since the conception of this scope.

At least 3 years after V00.06.02, Rigol still hasn't solved the problem and some people on the forum (maybe working at Rigol company) say it's a software problem!!! Easy to keep users waiting forever.

But why the defect has still not been resolved for so long:
First possibility: Rigol is a small company with few incompetent developers and they don't have time to solve a 3 years old bug?
Second possibility: the problem is hardware with board version 0.0.1. It cannot be solved without a hardware upgrade!

Regards

[Piton]

Yes, there are two problems in this model: the shift of the rays when the second channel is turned on / off, which I already mentioned here, and this one with a brightness of 5 ns. Rigol has not responded in any way yet.

[PatrickB]

Hi Piton,
I tried again to reproduce the first problem you mention.
When I validate or invalidate the second channel, the trace does not move. I do not hear the contacts of a relay sticking or unsticking
Maybe I misunderstood the problem.
When you see this problem, what is the value in volt/cm of the channels, is there a signal on the 2 channels?
I'm just trying to reproduce the problem on my scope with your settings.

[Piton]

The problem is clearly visible at maximum vertical sensitivity (starting from 5mV/div.). When the second channel is turned on, both beams move upwards. To return the beams to "Zero", you need to switch both channels to the "Ground" mode and back, then both beams are combined into one "zero" line. Many people have this problem, maybe you are lucky.
  Yes, and at the same time, a relay clicks on the second channel. There is one more point: when the second channel is turned off, the voltmeter readings are absent, and in the first channel, when it is turned off, they remain the same as they were before the turn off.

[PatrickB]

With the sensitivity of both channels set to 2mV/div and without connected probes, when I enable channel 2, the trace of both channels move up at 0.4mV (1/5 of div), no more.
By disable channel 1, the trace of 2 remains at 0.4mV but by disable 2, the trace of 1 goes down to ground.

I had never seen this defect, I don't use my scope with such low voltage signals.

For my use of this scope, the biggest problem is the loss of luminosity with the time base at 5ns. If I get any information about this bug, I'll let you know.

[Piton]

Yes, if you do not use such sensitivity, then this problem can be overlooked.

[RogerG]

Presumably you want the one with less pulses:  Bourns PEC11R-4215F-S0012

https://www.bourns.com/docs/product-datasheets/pec11r.pdf

Hi,

today I've installed the recommended Bourns encoder with 12 pulses.
It works perfectly, each detent changes exactly one menu line.
Thank you again, @fungus!

Happy regards
Roger

[trmntr]

Hi all.  I'm going to buy this oscilloscope model from AliExpress.  Please answer, has the problem with decreasing brightness on a 5ns time base been solved?

[PatrickB]

The problem is not solved. see another of my posts.

Have you compared with the scopes from Siglent, the prices are correct.

[trmntr]

Hello! A similar situation, even saves a picture with the same dim beam, in the PC program the beam for 5Ns is already normal. More likely, it's the firmware. The support service is not responding.

Hello, is this your post on this forum 4pda?
https://4pda.to/forum/index.php?showtopic=1011601&view=findpost&p=117041936

[trmntr]

Hello,

I own a brand new DS1102Z-E since a few weeks and tried to replace this horrible, non-indexed multipurpose encoder. I found the Bourns PEC11R-4215F-S0024 (24 positions) but with this encoder the Scope always triggers the menu twice, so it jumps over one menu item .

Any other suggestions for the correct encoder?

Presumably you want the one with less pulses:  Bourns PEC11R-4215F-S0012

https://www.bourns.com/docs/product-datasheets/pec11r.pdf

Hello, tell me how this encoder (PEC11R-4315F-S0012) differs from the one you provided (PEC11R-4215F-S0012)?
Is it also suitable to replace the native encoder?

[PatrickB]

Hello, No, this is not my post.

trmntr, have you receive Rigol scope?

[trmntr]

Not yet.  Wait a long time... Three weeks at least...

[trmntr]

trmntr, have you receive Rigol scope?

Hello.  Today arrived.
Board Ver:0.0.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.4.2
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.6
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.06.03.SP2
on a 5ns sweep, the brightness of the rays decreases
Remarkably, the same problem exists and on the ds1202 model...
https://youtu.be/XvA3UMDDrAQ?t=1546

[PatrickB]

  Incredible, but what is Rigol doing to solve this bug which dates back 2 years with version 06.02

[trmntr]

Have you noticed that this problem with low brightness at 5ns appeared after the previous fix of another problem related to the same 5ns?

- Fixed the automatic cursor error when set 5ns time base，in average mode

[PatrickB]

I received my scope in November 2021 with software version 06.02.
The brightness problem already existed. Rigol recognized this bug in an email I received.
Version 06.03 did not fix it.

Version 06.02 issued by Rigol dates from February 2020.
This means that in February 2023 (in 3 months), this problem will exist for at least 3 years. I don't know if this problem existed with version 06.01

Rigol doesn't care about users but they have a legal obligation to solve hidden malfunctions but when...

[Fungus]

Version 06.02 issued by Rigol dates from February 2020.
This means that in February 2023 (in 3 months), this problem will exist for at least 3 years. I don't know if this problem existed with version 06.01

Downgrade and find out... 

[trmntr]

Well, be that as it may, we will have to accept this shortcoming, especially since, in my opinion, this problem is not so critical, but an unpleasant aftertaste, of course, remains.

[trmntr]

The Russian RIGOL support service answered:
 "All devices of this series behave in a similar way.  Manufacturing knows this.  Whether they will fix it is hard to say."

[PatrickB]

You have received the information: "Manufacturing knows this. Whether they will fix it is hard to say."
A software problem can be solved relatively quickly. But it's been around for almost 3 years
A hardware design defect is difficult to resolve without a return to the factory. This may be why Rigol does not give a date to bring a solution to this problem.
I also wrote to Rigol in China 15 days ago. They answered me : "We will check the status of this case and get you back ASAP."

[trmntr]

Look, if you freeze the waveform and stretch it to 5ns, then there seems to be no problem)

[PatrickB]

Hello trmntr,
how do you get the version numbers of:
 - Firmware Ver
 - BOOT Ver
 - CPLD Ver

[PatrickB]

I freeze the trace and the trigger displays WAIT..
When I change the time base to 5ns, the brightness decreases!!!

[trmntr]

go to "storage" there select CSV or Param and save the file. Then open the saved txt and in the first paragraph it is written about the device parameters
but i'm pretty sure all the specs will be the same