Author Topic: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)  (Read 21801 times)

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Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2019, 11:36:46 am »
This really doesn't feel like anything important or game changing.

I guess it sort of makes sense from a marketing poitn of view, ie. to have a a 4-channel, 100Mhz version and a 2-channel, 200Mhz version at the same price.

It's totally ignoring the big Siglent elephant in the room though.

PS: Tautech.. what's the difference between the 1202X and the 1202X-E? Why is one worth 50% more than the other?
 

Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2019, 12:14:54 pm »
We have now loaded the correct image.

 :)

One question: Does ti come with all the serial decoders, etc., that were optional on the Rigol DS1054Z?
Yes RS232 / UART, I2C, SPI
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Offline simone.pignatti

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2019, 12:18:32 pm »
This really doesn't feel like anything important or game changing.

I guess it sort of makes sense from a marketing poitn of view, ie. to have a a 4-channel, 100Mhz version and a 2-channel, 200Mhz version at the same price.

It's totally ignoring the big Siglent elephant in the room though.

PS: Tautech.. what's the difference between the 1202X and the 1202X-E? Why is one worth 50% more than the other?
The main difference between 1202X and the 1202X-E is the display size (8" Vs 7")
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Offline tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2019, 08:05:27 pm »


PS: Tautech.. what's the difference between the 1202X and the 1202X-E? Why is one worth 50% more than the other?
Bigger form factor, 8" display, 50 ohm inputs, MSO and AWG capability......most of which has been migrated to the SDS2000X-E series that have BW's to 350 MHz. They start @ $619 and offer 2 GSa/s and have the much faster Xilinx processor.
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Offline TK

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2019, 12:59:56 pm »
We have now loaded the correct image.

 :)

One question: Does ti come with all the serial decoders, etc., that were optional on the Rigol DS1054Z?
Serial decode is now standard on the DS1054Z as well as most of the options, except for BW upgrade.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2019, 03:11:58 pm »
I would love to give the benefit of the doubt if the oscilloscope is incredibly well rounded with buttery-smooth screen update rate, spotless serial decoding in memory, lag and bug free. That could potentially be achieved without the procesing overhead caused by the extra two channels of the 4-ch cousin - Rigol claims it is the same platform.

From specs and form factor alone, it is really not a game changer: two channels without independent controls... 16k point FFTs... 30k wfms/s...

The biggest offender: 500MSPS @ 200MHz analog bandwidth.

Nothing to see here...
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Offline IDEngineer

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2019, 04:47:06 pm »
4000 E model still available.
A while back we had a discussion here about scopes and the Rigol 4000 series sort of bubbled to the top as something of a sweet spot in the market. Not necessarily the best at anything, but very hard to duplicate the package at anywhere near the price from anyone else - particularly if you unlock one of the lower bandwidth units. Rigol has likely recovered all of their R&D costs on that series, so now it's a cash cow just churning out the profits while getting a lot of EE students and hobbyists familiar with the Rigol brand at a very low price.

Are there better/faster/cheaper scopes? Absolutely. But for under $2K you can have a brand new scope with factory warranty that has 500MHz, 4GSa/sec, four channels with fully independent front panel controls, 9 inch color display, and full serial decoding. That's an amazing amount of T&M on your bench for the money.
 

Online tv84

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2019, 05:39:10 pm »
4000E model has 2GSa/s, not 4.

But if you are talking about a DS4014, then we have the DS7014 for exactly the same price... (both unlockable as you know).
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2019, 05:47:20 pm »
4000E model has 2GSa/s, not 4.
I was speaking of the non-E version. I have one here on my bench and it explicitly says 4GSa/sec on its front panel.

Quote
But if you are talking about a DS4014, then we have the DS7014 for exactly the same price... (both unlockable as you know).
If that's true, then maybe they'll retire the 4000 series. But I have seen 4000's on sale for under $2K, while I don't recall any 7000's in that price range (yet). If someone is willing to trade me a 7000 for my 4000, send me a PM and we'll work out the shipping! {grin} That would be a nice 2.5X bump in sampling rate.
 

Online tv84

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2019, 06:32:49 pm »
If that's true, then maybe they'll retire the 4000 series.

It appears so. :)

DS4014

DS7014  with all options...
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 06:38:18 pm by tv84 »
 

Offline wnorcott

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2019, 06:44:47 pm »
I wonder if it still has the crummy 'software only' decoders for I2C like the 1054Z ?  That can only decode the portion of stream that is visible onscreen?
On very rare occasions, you might notice an odor or see a puff of smoke or sparks vent from your product.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2019, 06:46:04 pm »
Nothing to see here...

I agree. This is aimed at people who have "200Mhz, 2 channels" written on a shopping list and not much else.

 
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Offline TK

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2019, 06:50:35 pm »
I wonder if it still has the crummy 'software only' decoders for I2C like the 1054Z ?  That can only decode the portion of stream that is visible onscreen?
I am afraid that is still the case.  I have the 5074 and decode is slow, it updates like 500ms-1s after the waveform.  If you watch the 8000 video, decode is slow as well.
 
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Online bd139

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2019, 06:52:12 pm »
Yeah it’s crap for that. Cheap aliexpress saleae clone is a better investment
 

Online tv84

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2019, 06:55:17 pm »
I agree. This is aimed at people who have "200Mhz, 2 channels" written on a shopping list and not much else.

Agree. What about the MSO5152E ?  :D
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2019, 06:59:12 pm »
Yeah it’s crap for that. Cheap aliexpress saleae clone is a better investment
In my opinion the use of serial decode on DSO's is limited to a quick check to see if the right signals are there, nothing more (serial decode combined with the serial trigger).  If you need to analyze the packets, then it is better to use a logic analyzer rather than scrolling up and down through the event table on the DSO.
 

Online tv84

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2019, 07:30:39 pm »
Sure, reserving resources to develop a hw solution for a add-on like that one is definitely a thing out of this class of scopes.

We all benefit from it because it keeps costs down. There 's no way around it.
 

Offline wnorcott

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2019, 07:39:38 pm »
Maybe it is time to get a logic analyzer.   The 1054Z is a wonderful tool for what it does and whet my appetite for I2C, UART and SPI tracing but the limitations make it frustrating. The  challenge is my interest in  analog and digital exceeds my skill set, and my skill set exceeds my budget.   ;D  I wonder if the Intrustar ISDS205C on aliexpress is any good?   It has a logic analyzer and is in the $60 range -- that I can handle.
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Offline IDEngineer

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2019, 07:42:27 pm »
my interest in  analog and digital exceeds my skill set, and my skill set exceeds my budget
That statement is likely true for almost everyone here! {grin}

Don't get discouraged. Get the tools you can, push them to their limits while you save/trade up to the next level.
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2019, 07:50:58 pm »
I have the 5074 and decode is slow, it updates like 500ms-1s after the waveform.  If you watch the 8000 video, decode is slow as well.

Remember: That one has a LOT of memory to decode.

The 1054Z is a wonderful tool for what it does and whet my appetite for I2C, UART and SPI tracing but the limitations make it frustrating.

The 'scope is for looking at the shape of the signals, making sure your I2C pullups are doing their job, etc.

Maybe it is time to get a logic analyzer.    I wonder if the Intrustar ISDS205C on aliexpress is any good?   It has a logic analyzer and is in the $60 range -- that I can handle.

You can get simple logic analyzers for $6 on eBay. They're plenty fast enough for I2C, UART and Arduino-speed SPI.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=usb+logic+analyzer

You'll also find that using a PC with gigabytes of memory+mouse+keyboard is a better way to do it than on a tiny screen with twisty knobs.
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2019, 07:51:04 pm »
Maybe it is time to get a logic analyzer.
If you have to pick just one for now, IMHO a scope is more important, and more versatile, than a logic analyzer. But it's also more expensive to buy an entry-level scope than an entry-level logic analyzer. Only YOU can decide how to balance your budget.

Over the years I've developed and debugged countless serial interface systems with traditional, non-storage, non-decoding analog {gasp} scopes. Serial comm has been around a lot longer than modern DSO's. Just work up in steps, by first repeatedly transmitting the same data packet - even a single byte - so the scope's triggering can give you a stable display. Confirm the bits are proper, then vary the bits to confirm the output tracks your code. Then get the receive side working. Now you're exchanging data at the byte level, so move to multiple bytes. And so on, up the curve. Soon you'll have serial data flowing around without a logic analyzer or a storage scope in sight.

Do fancy tools make it easier? You bet. Can it be done without them? Absolutely - many have done so before you, and you can do it too.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2019, 07:53:13 pm »
Maybe it is time to get a logic analyzer.
If you have to pick just one for now, IMHO a scope is more important, and more versatile, than a logic analyzer. But it's also more expensive to buy an entry-level scope than an entry-level logic analyzer. Only YOU can decide how to balance your budget.

You really need both - one to see signal integrity and the other to sniff the data.

 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #47 on: October 29, 2019, 07:57:39 pm »
I have the 5074 and decode is slow, it updates like 500ms-1s after the waveform.  If you watch the 8000 video, decode is slow as well.

Remember: That one has a LOT of memory to decode.

It only decodes what is in the screen, not the full sample memory
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #48 on: October 29, 2019, 08:23:03 pm »
It only decodes what is in the screen, not the full sample memory

It doesn't work with "pixels" like the DS1054Z, it actually does a memory decode of the area shown on screen.

And ... it's perfectly possible to show the whole of memory on screen.

ie. If yours is slow, check your memory depth and sample rate. You probably don't need all that.
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #49 on: October 29, 2019, 08:34:45 pm »
It only decodes what is in the screen, not the full sample memory

It doesn't work with "pixels" like the DS1054Z, it actually does a memory decode of the area shown on screen.

And ... it's perfectly possible to show the whole of memory on screen.

ie. If yours is slow, check your memory depth and sample rate. You probably don't need all that.
Thanks, I will test lowering the memory depth and sample rate.
 


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