Author Topic: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)  (Read 22083 times)

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Online bd139

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #100 on: May 04, 2020, 07:05:02 pm »
Perhaps they didn't know the English word for green?

(I had to learn all the chinese colours to build one of those shitty AM radio kits that don't work a while ago)
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #101 on: May 04, 2020, 07:24:44 pm »
Funny that the "two blue" trace color topic has surfaced again. That's my Number One complaint about my Rigol DS4000 series scope.
That is quite interesting; I don't really have a problem with the two shades of blue but I understand your reasons for complaint - the colors are not very dissimilar.

To me the interface itself is so personal that it is impossible to quantify. The Tektronix interface of an old TDS3054 (B or C, I don't recall) that I used to work with was quite alright for my taste, with the only pet peeve being the large surrouding menu areas that prevented the graticule from filling the entire (already small) screen. Also, the cursor and DC offset cursors were not terribly fast and got worse as math/FFT was applied, but I was ok with that - as @Gandalf_Sr and @Fungus have said, it didn't block me from doing anything.

A bit later I got my old Rigol DS1102E which had a similar easiness of use and responsiveness, thus I was quite comfortable with it. Not knowing better, I started using a "washing machine" Windows 2000-based TDS7104 that had a seriously terrible interface and responsiveness. I would take my Rigol any day.

A few years later I got a DS4014 and, despite four channels, it has independent controls and the row of buttons on the left side of the screen are really handy for me - I use measurements a lot and don't have a problem with the fonts themselves. Its menus and overall UI and responsiveness are somewhat similar to the old TDS3054 but the reviews around the internet say its responsiveness is crap. After playing with HPAKs DSOX1000, DSOX3000 and DSOX4000 I can tell why - they are the kings of buttery and smooth controls. However, these models don't have the left row of buttons and the menus are less obvious to me (perhaps a matter of familiarity). The worst aspect of the two lower range HPAK models, however, is the rectangular graticule - they fit the same ten divisions but on a wide screen (the DSOX4000 has a 4:3 screen). The DS4014 has 14 square divisions on the wide screen.

I also got to play with the Lecroy (forgot now which model) but it was equally smooth and a really capable oscilloscope - that would be a brand I would heavily consider if I had the dough. The more moderns Tek MDO 3 and 4 had a terrible UI and responsiveness. I never used a R&S but the reviews tell it is a great product.

All this to show the umbrella statement that Rigol UI is crap may be overblown by one's past experiences.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #102 on: May 04, 2020, 08:34:45 pm »
Funny that the "two blue" trace color topic has surfaced again. That's my Number One complaint about my Rigol DS4000 series scope. Lots of other small things I'd change if I could, but seriously... there is a whole spectrum of colors available. Why two shades of blue?!?

Ummm... one of them is "cyan", not blue.

Cyan, Magenta, Yellow - the three most visible colors on an RGB screen.

I've lost count of the times I've had to (re)explain to someone that "No, I mean the OTHER blue trace".

Maybe if you stop saying "light blue"... use the color names used by the rest of the world.

 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #103 on: May 04, 2020, 08:36:33 pm »
Perhaps they didn't know the English word for green?

Or ... maybe they know that red-green color blindness is the most common type, and they also know that people with that condition can't distinguish green from the other colors. Hence Blue.

(and hence my question to the color blind person a few posts up)
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #104 on: May 04, 2020, 11:03:45 pm »
Or maybe, they could just let the trace colors be user defined. Then there would be no argument, and everyone could do whatever best suits their needs.

And yes, I do know what cyan means. I have printing technology in my background so that's not surprising. Trouble is, many people do not know subtle colors names. I referred to "light blue" because that's what I hear most often when this problem comes up. Folks describe them as "light blue" and "dark blue".

Bottom line: It doesn't matter what names people use for color. If they're confusing the colors, there's a user interface problem. And this one is especially easy to correct.
 

Offline karamba

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #105 on: May 05, 2020, 12:58:29 am »
Or maybe, they could just let the trace colors be user defined. Then there would be no argument, and everyone could do whatever best suits their needs.

And yes, I do know what cyan means. I have printing technology in my background so that's not surprising. Trouble is, many people do not know subtle colors names. I referred to "light blue" because that's what I hear most often when this problem comes up. Folks describe them as "light blue" and "dark blue".

Bottom line: It doesn't matter what names people use for color. If they're confusing the colors, there's a user interface problem. And this one is especially easy to correct.
Maybe you with your printing technology background also can come up with the idea to to paint the knobs to correspond the color scheme of your custom lines ? Maybe a carousel inside like we used to see in it in multi CD players back then  ? :-0
See life is not that simple.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #106 on: May 05, 2020, 05:33:16 am »
Would Siglent's green fourth channel cause you more difficulty than Rigol's blue?

That would depend on what Siglent's other three colors are.  ::)

I have some difficulty telling green/yellow/orange apart; e.g. with those two-color LEDs often used as status indicators. My Kindle's charge indicator is a notorious example; never sure whether it's still charging or done.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #107 on: May 05, 2020, 05:54:52 am »
out of these "difficult" colors, Rigol uses only one.
So does the Siglent...  :palm:

While I struggle with colors, you seem to struggle with counting?  :P

Just looked at some pictures of the Siglent four-channel scopes, and they use yellow, red, and green. That's three "difficult" colors in my book. (Or is that magenta instead of red? Can't quite tell; but yellow and green are still slightly more than one...)
 

Online tautech

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #108 on: May 05, 2020, 06:05:50 am »
out of these "difficult" colors, Rigol uses only one.
So does the Siglent...  :palm:

While I struggle with colors, you seem to struggle with counting?  :P

Just looked at some pictures of the Siglent four-channel scopes, and they use yellow, red, and green. That's three "difficult" colors in my book. (Or is that magenta instead of red? Can't quite tell; but yellow and green are still slightly more than one...)
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #109 on: May 05, 2020, 02:00:00 pm »
I have some difficulty telling green/yellow/orange apart

So on a Siglent you wouldn't be able to tell trace #4 (green) from the yellow trace, but on a Rigol you can tell trace #4 (blue) from the others.

Point proven methinks.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #110 on: May 05, 2020, 02:03:26 pm »
Or maybe, they could just let the trace colors be user defined. Then there would be no argument, and everyone could do whatever best suits their needs.

Except they wouldn't match the colors painted on the case/buttons.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #111 on: May 05, 2020, 02:21:42 pm »
How about we just make all the traces black?  :popcorn:

 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #112 on: May 05, 2020, 06:14:34 pm »
Obviously we need RGB backlighting on the channel select buttons.

(and a full rainbow of those little plastic rings that go on the probes)

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #113 on: May 05, 2020, 06:15:34 pm »
How about we just make all the traces black?  :popcorn:

Maybe we can get the UI experts at Apple to make everything grey on grey.
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #114 on: May 16, 2020, 03:31:24 pm »
[Model Supported] All the DS1000Z-E Series Digital Oscilloscopes.
[Latest Revision Date] 2020-02-29

[Updated Contents]
v00.06.02.00.01   2019-09-29

         - Modified the upgrade file name
    - Fixed the measure error when selecting math as the measurement source
    - Fixed bug about storage CSV files   
    - Fixed the automatic cursor error when set 5ns time base,in average mode

[Previous Versions and Updated Contents]
v00.06.01.00.00   2019-09-20

     - The first version is released.
 

Offline plutonian

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #115 on: May 17, 2020, 10:39:59 pm »
I pulled the trigger on the Rigol DS1202Z-E at $299, free shipping and no sales tax. I don't really see anything on the Siglent SDS1202X-E worth of $79 (26% more) . For others considering it, here is the first review I have seen in youtube.
 

Offline duckduck

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #116 on: May 18, 2020, 03:57:58 pm »
I pulled the trigger on the Rigol DS1202Z-E at $299, free shipping and no sales tax.

Don't forget to register for the free 5-year warranty:

https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0079:d-0001/0/-/-/-/-/index.htm?sid=TV2:Kt5oPeWlY
 

Offline karamba

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #117 on: May 30, 2020, 08:52:54 pm »
I pulled the trigger on the Rigol DS1202Z-E at $299, free shipping and no sales tax. I don't really see anything on the Siglent SDS1202X-E worth of $79 (26% more)
They are quite different despite being in the same price range. Siglent is a newer tool and uses more capable components, For example FFT on Siglent is much better (due to inclusion of math coprocessor ) and 3 times higher waveform capture rate. You may not need it but for those who do $79 price difference is justified.
 

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #118 on: May 30, 2020, 09:01:23 pm »
I pulled the trigger on the Rigol DS1202Z-E at $299, free shipping and no sales tax. I don't really see anything on the Siglent SDS1202X-E worth of $79 (26% more)
They are quite different despite being in the same price range. Siglent is a newer tool and uses more capable components, For example FFT on Siglent is much better (due to inclusion of math coprocessor ) and 3 times higher waveform capture rate. You may not need it but for those who do $79 price difference is justified.
It's not actually, SDS1202X-E has been around for a few years and the similar Rigol was introduced as competition for it. SDS1202X-E is a big seller and I can't get any until a 4000+ unit order is fulfilled at the factory.  ::)
A few of the features developed in the later SDS1004X-E models have been retrospectively added to the SDS1202X-E to keep them updated and similar to their 4ch brother.
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Offline karamba

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #119 on: May 30, 2020, 09:27:42 pm »
You are right, What I meant is that Rigol is just a cut down version of their venerable but much older Rigol DS1054Z unit.
 
 

Online Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #120 on: May 31, 2020, 10:28:31 am »
You are right, What I meant is that Rigol is just a cut down version of their venerable but much older Rigol DS1054Z unit.
That was my impression too; what sense is there in paying for 2 channels when you can get the 4 for the same money?
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #121 on: May 31, 2020, 06:07:17 pm »
You are right, What I meant is that Rigol is just a cut down version of their venerable but much older Rigol DS1054Z unit.
That was my impression too; what sense is there in paying for 2 channels when you can get the 4 for the same money?
200MHz vs 50MHz unhacked?  The DS1054Z can be hacked to 100MHz but not to 200MHz
 

Online Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #122 on: May 31, 2020, 06:55:50 pm »
OK, it's only 100 MHz (133 some say) hacked, it still has only half the number of channels. I suppose if you must have 200 MHz and 133 MHz won't do and you're OK with just 2 channels.....
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline MasterT

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #123 on: June 11, 2020, 03:46:02 pm »
Software bug with FFT mode activated.
There are two pictures, same input, one is taken in acquisition->normal and another in acquisition->high resolution. It tooks me awhile to figure out, that frequency peaks on the right side of the screen are aliasing artefacts produced by scope. Imagine, I was debugging stm32g474 DDS synthesizer  >:(

To avoid such confusion, ether::
- run fft from Memory, than switching acquisition doesn't matter;
-  or do not use high resolution acquisition, if fft is in trace mode.
 

Offline rhb

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Re: Rigol DS1202Z-E entry level scope (200MHz, 2 channel)
« Reply #124 on: June 14, 2020, 01:07:28 am »
I have gotten *very* annoyed by the 5% overshoot on my Instek MSO2204EA.  So I asked Rigol for a step response from the DS1202Z-E.  The *next* day I got this:

[attach=1]

I immediately ordered one.  I made a similar request to Tektronix in late April, but still have no step response on a 3 series.  I bought a Keysight MSOX3104T but returned it when it had a 7% overshoot.  An RTM3104 demo arrived with 3% overshoot but completely useless FFT.   The sales guy suggested a FW update which resulted in a 10% overshoot.  Restoring the original FW version did not correct that.  And R&S doesn't want to talk about it.

A *very* good old school Tek analog step response from a DSO for $300 was a complete no brainer.

Methinks Rigol will eat someone else's lunch soon.

Once it arrives I'll do a head to head of the Instek MSO2204EA, Rigol DS1202Z-E and an Owon XDS-2102A.

Reg
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 01:10:16 am by rhb »
 


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