Author Topic: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs  (Read 25239 times)

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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2015, 07:03:13 pm »
Bug 01.00  Update      More Testing with 2 Channels
Here with 2 channels on and the fast pulse there are only a few samples during the step of the input signal.
Here are 3 displays at 42, 336,and 636 mV Trigger level setting
Then a display where the trigger level was manually varied from 30-630mV
and finally a display with a Sinewave on Chan 2 with trigger errors occurring on Chan1

Do I show a "cause and effect" clearly???

Why is the offset 8 nSec?
Does the FW move 16 samples from the Sample memory to the Display memory in  groups (128 bits)?

Will Rigol address this??? It is hard to say, very rare, and just a limitation, 
   
« Last Edit: January 04, 2015, 08:09:24 pm by Teneyes »
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2015, 07:05:05 pm »
Bug 01.00  Update
  Just to be Clear!
 No Options are Installed and there are errors
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2015, 07:32:46 pm »
03.00    Limitation
      While testing the errors in waveforms with the Pass/Fail function I encountered the limit on the Wfms counter which is 2,147,483,648 . Which I laughed knowing it was 31 bit integer
The counter then wraps to  -2,147,483,647 and continues up +.

Given that at 20,000 Wfmrs/sec it would take about 30 hours to reach the limit , it is a large limit

BUT there is room to improve and here are some suggestions:
   1. Just like the "Stop on Error"  , the DSO could Stop at the 2G Wfmrs limit

   2. If the Counter goes negative just add 4G before displaying, and Stop on -1

   3.  Increase the Counter size  to the Space allocated on the screen for the count , 999,999,999,999

As I was testing , I wished there was the Feature, like the 'Stop on Error'  that was a "Stop on #" a count. This Stop on Count would be settable, so one could walk away and return to see how many errors occurred in 10M WFmrs ... 
Just a Suggestion for improvement....

Response from Rigol
______________________________________
That is funny.
Almost a full 32 bit number. Excellent testing.
I bet you are the only person to find that   :)
Regards,  Chris Armstrong
Director of Product Marketing & SW Applications
______________________________________________




« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 07:34:14 am by Teneyes »
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2015, 10:02:35 am »
Bug 01.00  Update
 more testing show that  this error occurs on all Edge trigger Modes, but mostly on the Falling Edge trigger.
See the Pass/Fail counts below.

So I will review the setup to Test.
  AC input Coupling
 AC trigger Coupling
 Set Falling Edge Trigger
Set Persistence to Infinite
Input the Fast Square wave or  repeating Pulses ( about 2 MHz,  vary this also)
Slowly move Veritical Position, stop when persistence show a trace at 8ns early

Once you see errors occurring then set to Dots
I am Wondering if this occurs on the MSO

« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 06:29:28 am by Teneyes »
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Offline andtfoot

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2015, 12:42:53 pm »
Testing for Bug 1 again. Still can't get it (I don't think my function generator is good enough), but I did make the scope crash though... does that count?  ;D

« Last Edit: January 06, 2015, 12:46:04 pm by andtfoot »
 

Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2015, 09:57:38 pm »
Bug 01.00  Update
. does that count?  ;D
@andtfoot, Thanks
Yes , I would think that counts, You win, or should I said you Lose more severely :D

Here are more tests to show that the Error occurrences change with the Number of measurements that are on.

Yes rarely happens. any comments?
And the next post is more so ;D
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 01:51:12 am by Teneyes »
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2015, 10:36:47 pm »
Bug 04.00  Bug or Limit ?    Trigger Delay discontinuity
      This condition is only noticeable on DS2202 or DS2302
    With DC input and DC trigger a delayed trigger point jumps 1 sample period early at specific delays.
 1 sample period = 0.5 nSec for single channel and = 1.0nSec for 2 Channels.
The Delay value where this occurs is just near the Integer value of nSec.
This occurs when using the faster timebases
For the DS2202, 1Chan the error in the display occurs when the Delay is X.01, X.02, X.03 and X.04 nSec (where X=-14 to 14)

For the DS2302, 1Chan the error in the display occurs when the Delay is  X.01, and X.02 nSec (where X=-7 to 7)

There are discontinuities throughout the adjustment of the Trigger Delay .
See the 4th Pix , where I set the Trigger Delay time

You Can see the manual adjustment increments are 0.02 or 0.04 nSec

Yes I checked Delay settings from -4.00nSec to -5.05nSec in 0.01 increments.

This also Occurs when zooming from 20ns/div lower
This does not occur when zooming from 50ns/div lower

This also occurs with FW 00.03.01.00.04

Nice to have a confirmation , and a MSO2000A owner check

A Bug or a Limit ?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 06:30:59 am by Teneyes »
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2015, 05:42:03 pm »
Bug 04.00  a very small Bug or Limitation ?    Trigger Delay discontinuity
Well I satisfied myself on this point.  :)
In the displays below I show where and when the error occurs
Here are displays at different Trigger delay points
1) The Trigger delay is set to 0.00 nS  and is correct
2) The Trigger delay is set to 1.00 nS  and is correct
3) The Trigger delay is set to 1.01 nS  and is NOT correct
4) The Trigger delay is set to 1.02 nS  and is NOT correct
5) The Trigger delay is set to 1.03 nS  and is correct

Now you can see  that the display with the Trigger delay is set to 1.01 nS  is the same as
the display with the Trigger delay is set to 0.00 nS 

This error occurs near every 1 nSec increment
It is rare that one manual makes a delay adjustment to these settings and the resulting error is very small just 1 nSec.  ( one sample time )
In order to test , I used SCPI commands to set the values accurately.
This is a small error and only visible on DS2202 and DS2302 models set on fast timebase.

Now I observed that this error only occurs in "AUTO" , when the memory depth is only 700Pts.
and when the memory depth is set higher the error does not occur.

I make the hypothesis that the program that processes the 700 sample pts thru the SineX/X function and then maps the result in to the display memory has a fault at specific points.

But I say again this trying to interpolate 700 1nSec points into 1400 (10pSec) setting positions can be tricky.

So if you are measuring down to 10pSec offsets, be sure to use the work around of more Memory depth.  ;)
A Programming curiosity!
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 11:44:56 pm by Teneyes »
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2015, 10:04:09 am »
In the 1st display I show recorded waveforms (.Gif ) of the error
I have narrow the condition down for my DSO and signals. 
   AC input coupling
   AC trigger coupling
   Fast rise or fall pulse
   Fast update rate ( 5ns/div ) so the the error can be observed
   Infinite persistence also so the error can be observed
   vertical position off 0.0 adjusted for error
   Input frequency 1 to 2.5 MHz  ,

In the 2nd display , I show an error trace in DOTS format , and this shows that ONLY when the sample data has a sample point at the trigger point does this Error occur.
Also as the Trigger point is changed the trace that causes the error has a DOT/sample point at the Trigger level , the display shows the variation/streaking of the other points. (persistence)
With this correlation of Error point to Trigger point, I hypothesize that the programming for trigger detection is the source of this error.

Because of the difference between input source oscillator and the internal DSO sample clock the occurrence of this error must be such that one sample (at 2GS/s) does coincide with the Voltage input to be equal to the Trigger point. ( involving many factors: freq, update rate, sample clock, amplitude, offset....)

Based on this,  I conjecture that the trigger program is testing for an input greater than (or less than) the trigger point in order to display the trace.
BUT when the input is Exactly equal to the Trigger point there is an error and the Trace data points are displayed incorrectly

« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 04:57:17 pm by Teneyes »
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2015, 12:11:17 am »
Bug 01.00  Update
  An easier way to test for this Bug is with a square wave and then vary the duty cycle.
In the displays I show where the error occurs at 21.3% duty cycle. (vectors , Dots)
By varying the duty cycle the AC zero point varies and the AC trigger point of '0.0' is at a different DC input value.    Once the errors is observed then one can vary the AC trigger point to see how the error follows the trigger value.
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Offline miguelvp

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2015, 03:27:48 am »
I already did bring it up in the jitter thread but I'll add it in here as well.

USB thumb drive can only be inserted once, if you take it out it won't recognize a second re-insertion. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks.
 

Offline andtfoot

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2015, 05:29:30 am »
I already did bring it up in the jitter thread but I'll add it in here as well.

USB thumb drive can only be inserted once, if you take it out it won't recognize a second re-insertion. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks.
It works fine for me.
I just tried the following successfully:
- Power on scope
- Insert thumbdrive and check in 'Storage->Disk Manage'
- Remove thumbdrive, wait ~5 seconds, reinsert
- Save picture to thumbdrive
- Remove thumbdrive, wait ~5 seconds, reinsert
- Save Setups, then picture to thumbdrive
- Remove thumbdrive nad check files in PC
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2015, 05:57:28 am »
Looks like this thread is probably dead but still seemed like the right place to post this.

I installed the 00.03.03.01.00 firmware on my DS2072A-S shortly after its release (around Jan 1st). I just noticed what I think is a new math operation called "Digital Filter" that was introduced with this firmware. I don't use the math functions very often so maybe I just missed it before but I don't remember seeing this ever. I've searched these forums and google and can't find a mention of it anywhere. Its also not listed in Rigol's documentation that I can find.

The "Digital Filter" operation has 4 filter types. Low Pass, High Pass, Band Pass and Band Stop. The Low Pass filter has a Upper Frequency Limit setting that can be set to 2.50kHz - 247kHz. The High Pass has a Lower Frequency Limit setting that can be set to 2.50kHz - 247kHz. The Band Pass and Band Stop filters have both an Upper Limit and Lower Limit setting that each can be set to 2.50kHz - 247kHz with them not be able to be set closer than 2.50kHz of each other.

Sorry if this is well known and I'm just really unobservant.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 05:59:11 am by CustomEngineerer »
 

Offline marmad

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2015, 06:10:51 am »
I installed the 00.03.03.01.00 firmware on my DS2072A-S shortly after its release (around Jan 1st). I just noticed what I think is a new math operation called "Digital Filter" that was introduced with this firmware. I don't use the math functions very often so maybe I just missed it before but I don't remember seeing this ever. I've searched these forums and google and can't find a mention of it anywhere. Its also not listed in Rigol's documentation that I can find.

The "Digital Filter" operation has 4 filter types. Low Pass, High Pass, Band Pass and Band Stop. The Low Pass filter has a Upper Frequency Limit setting that can be set to 2.50kHz - 247kHz. The High Pass has a Lower Frequency Limit setting that can be set to 2.50kHz - 247kHz. The Band Pass and Band Stop filters have both an Upper Limit and Lower Limit setting that each can be set to 2.50kHz - 247kHz with them not be able to be set closer than 2.50kHz of each other.

Sorry if this is well known and I'm just really unobservant.

Cool! This is certainly a new feature that I hadn't seen yet - I haven't had a chance to play with the new firmware yet because I've been abroad (and away from my scope) for a long time. Glad to see Rigol is still slipping in new features, although I sure wish they'd publicize it when they do it (a simple changelog would be great).
 

Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2015, 08:45:44 am »
I installed the 00.03.03.01.00 firmware on my DS2072A-S shortly after its release (around Jan 1st). I just noticed what I think is a new math operation called "Digital Filter" that was introduced with this firmware.
I agree , very cool
Here is Display of a 500Hz to 6KHz sweep(20ms) with a 4K Lo Pass Dig.Filter.
on to more testing :-+
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2015, 09:17:26 am »
Display of 10KHz HI Pass Digital Filter with 0.5-20KHz 12ms Sweep

The Max. Cutoff Frequency of HiPass setting is dependant on the Scan Rate
ie.  for 1ms/div the Max. Frequnecy is 49.5KHz
  But that is Not very useful
below I show :
10KHz Hi Pass
20kHz Hi Pass
30KHz Hi Pass
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2015, 09:23:17 am »
More Digital Filter testing
4-6k Band Pass Filter with 1 to 10KHz sweep over 22ms
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2015, 09:37:54 am »
More Digital Filter testing
6-12KHz Band Reject Filter with 2 to 16KHz sweep over 11ms

Now I find it Bad that once you set up the filter  Cutoff Frequency  , if you change the Time base the those Frequencies will Change, 
I think the Frequencies should NOT Change,
although  there will be the end limits that would be able to restrict a setting.
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Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2015, 10:17:25 am »
I had just discovered the digital filter at around 3-4 in the morning and clearly didn't really play with it. It appears that each time base setting its own minimum and maximum cutoff frequencies. I am just listing the coarse time base ranges, but even with fine time base adjustment each possible time base has its own specific cutoff range. You can clearly see the pattern. It looks like when you change time bases it just translates what you had the upper and lower limits set at to the new frequency range. So if you had the the time base set at 10.00ms and the lower limit was set at 20% of the range for 10.00ms, if you change the timebase to 20.00ms the lower limit would now be 20% of the range for 20.00ms. For example, if you have the lower limit set to 1.50kHz on time base 10.00ms, when you change the time base to 20.00ms the lower limit would become 750Hz. If you change the time base back to 10.00ms the lower limit would be 1.50kHz.
1.000ks -> 500uHz - 49.5mHz (Yes, that is micro and millihertz)
500.0s -> 1.00mHz - 99.0mHz
200.0s -> 2.50mHz - 247mHz
100.0s -> 5.00mHz - 495mHz
50.00s -> 10.0mHz - 990mHz
20.00s -> 25.0mHz - 2.47Hz
10.00s -> 50.0mHz - 4.95Hz
5.000s -> 100mHz - 9.90Hz
2.000s -> 250mHz - 24.7Hz
1.000s -> 500mHz - 49.5Hz
500.0ms -> 1.00Hz - 99.0Hz
200.0ms -> 2.50Hz - 247Hz
100.0ms -> 5.00Hz - 495Hz
50.00ms -> 10.0Hz - 990Hz
20.00ms -> 25.0mHz - 2.47Hz
10.00ms -> 50.0mHz - 4.95Hz
5.000ms -> 100mHz - 9.90Hz
2.000ms -> 250mHz - 24.7Hz
1.000ms -> 500mHz - 49.5Hz
20.00ms -> 25.0Hz - 2.47kHz
10.00ms -> 50.0Hz - 4.95kHz
5.000ms -> 100Hz - 9.90kHz
2.000ms -> 250Hz - 24.7kHz
1.000ms -> 500Hz - 49.5kHz
.
.
.
5.000ns -> 100MHz - 9.90GHz
2.000ns -> 250MHz - 24.7GHz

Edited to fix typo in the 20.00ms - 1.000ms range. Thanks Teneyes
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 12:27:00 am by CustomEngineerer »
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2015, 10:27:26 am »
marmad,

Agreed, a change log would be nice. I can't believe after the firmware issues that Rigol has had that they wouldn't want to tell us about the cool new features they add along with the bugs they fix.

Teneyes,

Thanks for testing the digital filter out. I don't currently have a function generator that can do sweeps easily (hence the reason I got the DS2072A-S, oops) so its nice to see that the digital filter's do actually seem to be working. Plus, pretty pictures.
 

Offline CustomEngineerer

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2015, 11:00:15 am »
Quote
Pix are very easy with Marmad's RUU program, have you tried it? Here

Yes, very cool program. Would have been awesome if Rigol could have done the 3D waveform plots on the scope like Marmad did in RUU. I have at least a couple of times ended up playing around with those for hours instead of actually accomplishing what I had originally set out to do.
 

Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2015, 09:35:56 pm »
Here is the comparison of two Digtal filter functions; the Hi Pass is shown along with a Bandpass adjusted for the same frequency range. 
Does anyone have  an idea why they are different?
  Different functions?
and is there a way that the can be the same ?
Should the function be the same on the low frequency side?

I like the complete cutout of the 'Bandpass' dig. filter on the low side. :-+

PS I used single trigger on DSO and the DSO trigger out is connectted to the Function Gen Trigger-input to start the Sweep
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Offline Rory

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2015, 09:43:22 pm »
Let's see what the impulse and step responses on those filters are.
 

Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2015, 09:57:36 pm »
Progressing the testing to Lo and Hi Pass Digital filter with Sawtooth input
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Offline Teneyes

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Re: Rigol DS2000 Firmware 00.03.03.01.00 Comments and Bugs
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2015, 10:08:18 pm »
Progressing the testing to Lo and Hi Pass Digital filter with trapezoid input
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