Budget ($150-$400) scope recommendations?

[nctnico]

One more question: With my lack of experience, it makes me a little nervous to think of spending $400ish on a scope. How robust/repairable are they? In other words, what are the odds that in the process of learning how to use a scope I accidentally cause expensive or irreparable damage?

Don't worry. You'll hardly be able to damage a Siglent DSO with its 400Vp tolerant inputs, unless you directly feed it with the output of a powerful transmitter.

This is true for any general purpose benchtop oscilloscope! They all survive connecting a 1:1 probe to mains voltages.

Scope 20X times more expensive than SDS1104X-E, the Keysight 3000T series, proudly carries MAX 135V RMS on its front panel, next to inputs... That is a bit less than 200V peak, AC+DC..

In that price range you are no longer in the general purpose category! It is not about price but about purpose. Above the toy scopes and below the special purpose scopes, I have not seen any bench oscilloscope that can't handle ball park 300V on the inputs. And that makes sense because these are the kind of scopes that end up in the hands of field technicians and students as well who are likely to make a mistake and hook a probe directly to mains.

[tautech]

One more question: With my lack of experience, it makes me a little nervous to think of spending $400ish on a scope. How robust/repairable are they? In other words, what are the odds that in the process of learning how to use a scope I accidentally cause expensive or irreparable damage?

Don't worry. You'll hardly be able to damage a Siglent DSO with its 400Vp tolerant inputs, unless you directly feed it with the output of a powerful transmitter.

This is true for any general purpose benchtop oscilloscope! They all survive connecting a 1:1 probe to mains voltages.

Scope 20X times more expensive than SDS1104X-E, the Keysight 3000T series, proudly carries MAX 135V RMS on its front panel, next to inputs... That is a bit less than 200V peak, AC+DC..

In that price range you are no longer in the general purpose category!

Does that even matter when it can't connect to universal mains voltage in 1x mode.......oh that's right, the world don't even exist for some brands beyond US shores.

[2N3055]

One more question: With my lack of experience, it makes me a little nervous to think of spending $400ish on a scope. How robust/repairable are they? In other words, what are the odds that in the process of learning how to use a scope I accidentally cause expensive or irreparable damage?

Don't worry. You'll hardly be able to damage a Siglent DSO with its 400Vp tolerant inputs, unless you directly feed it with the output of a powerful transmitter.

This is true for any general purpose benchtop oscilloscope! They all survive connecting a 1:1 probe to mains voltages.

Scope 20X times more expensive than SDS1104X-E, the Keysight 3000T series, proudly carries MAX 135V RMS on its front panel, next to inputs... That is a bit less than 200V peak, AC+DC..

In that price range you are no longer in the general purpose category! It is not about price but about purpose. Above the toy scopes and below the special purpose scopes, I have not seen any bench oscilloscope that can't handle ball park 300V on the inputs. And that makes sense because these are the kind of scopes that end up in the hands of field technicians and students as well who are likely to make a mistake and hook a probe directly to mains.

Keysight 3000T are as general purpose as they make them... They are on more expensive side but they are nothing but good general purpose scopes. Nothing specialized about them.

Listen, I agree that most scopes are going to be able to handle 300V peak and not explode in microsecond.
I just pointed out that generalizing all of them absolutely will is not true.. And you used that generalization to basically attack Performa he is wrong and biased.
We are all biased, but he is not wrong...
Not ALL general purpose scopes will survive 240VAC directly to input.
Most will though. But not all.

[Caliaxy]

Some of them will some of them won’t. We need joesmith move into oscilloscopes. Then we’ll learn how robust our oscilloscopes are 

[adam4521]

I appreciate test equipment having good protection, but I think we should be really careful with spec contest on input voltage. The Siglent affordable scopes (like all the lower cost oscilloscopes), ship with 1x/10x probes that have 300V peak-peak rating in 1x mode --> that's 106V rms and none of the system is CAT rated! It is not much help if the oscilloscope survives but the probe that the unsuspecting hobbyist is using is fizzing and shorting in their bare hand!

I can't think of any scenario where it is appropriate to deliberately probe 1:1 near mains voltages. One of the first things I bought was differential probes!

[Fungus]

I can't think of any scenario where it is appropriate to deliberately probe 1:1 near mains voltages.

Fixing a power supply?

[adam4521]

I can't think of any scenario where it is appropriate to deliberately probe 1:1 near mains voltages.

Fixing a power supply?

Exactly the sort of thing I would be very cautious of. If it is a SMPS it will have high frequencies, and high harmonics, too!

[Martin72]

One of the first things I bought was differential probes!

Absolutely.

[Performa01]

I appreciate test equipment having good protection, but I think we should be really careful with spec contest on input voltage. The Siglent affordable scopes (like all the lower cost oscilloscopes), ship with 1x/10x probes that have 300V peak-peak rating in 1x mode --> that's 106V rms and none of the system is CAT rated! It is not much help if the oscilloscope survives but the probe that the unsuspecting hobbyist is using is fizzing and shorting in their bare hand!

I can't think of any scenario where it is appropriate to deliberately probe 1:1 near mains voltages. One of the first things I bought was differential probes!

The important things first: Nobody here advocates probing a mains powered circuit with an oscilloscope as long as you don't absolutely know what you're doing. This includes to use appropriate probes and avoid the ones that can be switched to x1 mode.

The cheapest Probe (the one that will ship with a Siglent SDS1104X-U) is the PP510. It is rated 300 Vrms CAT II in x10 mode and 150 Vrms CAT II in x1 mode.

Since the scope cannot show more than 80 Vpp on the screen at its lowest sensitivity of 10 V/div anyway, a x1 probe is not helpful and its accidental use should become obvious quite quickly.
 
BTW, there are single ended probes specifically for mains, like the PB925, a x10 probe with 250 MHz bandwidth, that is 600 V CAT III and 1000 V CAT II rated.

EDIT: of course in most of today's use cases for mains voltage probing, a differential probe will be required!

[Fungus]

The important things first: Nobody here advocates probing a mains powered circuit with an oscilloscope as long as you don't absolutely know what you're doing. This includes to use appropriate probes and avoid the ones that can be switched to x1 mode.

What if you're looking at power supply ripple? You need a x1 probe for that.

[adam4521]

My earlier post relied on the datasheet linked at Batronix here (highest Google hit for me):
https://www.batronix.com/files/Siglent/Zubehoer/SPL1016/SIGLENT_Probe_Datasheet.pdf
But confused by Performa01 post, I find that the Siglent.EU one is different:
https://www.siglenteu.com//wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2022/04/Probe_DataSheet-E01A.pdf
It would be good if this was on the main Siglent website, couldn't find!
*Edit*, got it now:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/siglent_probe_datasheet201908.pdf

[kissel]

Thanks again to everyone for the help! Just pulled the trigger on a SDS1104X-U. With EDU pricing and the EEVblog code, $417 out the door. Super excited for it to get here. Does anyone have any recommended resources to learn the ropes of using an oscilloscope? Stuff like "don't probe mains voltage" that might seem blatantly obvious to those in the know. Most of my electrical knowledge is self-taught so I want to avoid the trap of not knowing what I don't know.

[Performa01]

The important things first: Nobody here advocates probing a mains powered circuit with an oscilloscope as long as you don't absolutely know what you're doing. This includes to use appropriate probes and avoid the ones that can be switched to x1 mode.

What if you're looking at power supply ripple? You need a x1 probe for that.

You really think so?

• This needs not always be true for a low noise oscilloscope like the SDS1104X-U.
• x1 Probes have limited bandwidth of usually less than 10 MHz. Industry standard bandwidth for noise and ripple measurements on supply lines is 20 MHz, so a x1 probe won’t cut it anyway.
• We usually measure noise and ripple at the output of a PSU, not at the mains side.
• Apart from all that: if a probe is only rated for 150 Vrms, then we cannot professionally use it at mains voltages in most parts of the world and we need to find some alternative solution. Full stop.

[Fungus]

What if you're looking at power supply ripple? You need a x1 probe for that.

You really think so?

I'm told so.

We usually measure noise and ripple at the output of a PSU, not at the mains side.

You're poking around something that has live mains AC inside it... 

[Performa01]

My earlier post relied on the datasheet linked at Batronix here (highest Google hit for me):
https://www.batronix.com/files/Siglent/Zubehoer/SPL1016/SIGLENT_Probe_Datasheet.pdf
But confused by Performa01 post, I find that the Siglent.EU one is different:
https://www.siglenteu.com//wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2022/04/Probe_DataSheet-E01A.pdf
It would be good if this was on the main Siglent website, couldn't find!
*Edit*, got it now:
https://int.siglent.com/upload_file/user/siglent_probe_datasheet201908.pdf

Yeah, sorry. That long obsolete datasheet linked by Batronix is from January 2019 (not indicated in the document) and I think it is not correct anyway. Who the hell specifies a maximum voltage as Vpp instead of Vp or Vrms?

[Martin72]

You're poking around something that has live mains AC inside it..

You need a x1 probe for that.

Hmmm...

[Fungus]

You're poking around something that has live mains AC inside it..

You need a x1 probe for that.

Hmmm...

Just pointing out that there's plenty of deathtrap power supplies out there, don't assume everything is ideal.

(Go watch Big Clive for a while if you don't believe me)

Bottom line: Learn to be careful, don't poke around at random. There's no substitute for knowing what you're doing.

[Martin72]

Hi,
I´m testing ac/dc power supplies up to 140kW for nearly 20yrs.

[Fungus]

Anyway: The advice stands. Leave your probes in 10x mode and you should be OK.

Some people actually glue three of the four probes in the 10x position. That's good sense.

Micsig only supplies 10x probes with their 'scopes,  they say the eliminating the switch allows them provide higher quality probes. I'm OK with that.

Fixed 10x probes are really hard to buy for some reason. Micsig sell theirs but there's no others that I can find from Aliexpress or other cheap places.

Fixed 100x probes, OTOH, are quite easy to find (example). If you're really going to probe mains AC then it seems like a good idea to get some.

[tautech]

Fixed 10x probes are really hard to buy for some reason.

Yes they are when you don't know where to source them from. 

This is your project for today. 

[Fungus]

Fixed 10x probes are really hard to buy for some reason.

Yes they are when you don't know where to source them from. 

From a place that would match a "Budget ($150-$400) scope"?

[tautech]

Fixed 10x probes are really hard to buy for some reason.

Yes they are when you don't know where to source them from. 

From a place that would match a "Budget ($150-$400) scope"?

$15/ea for 100 MHz fixed 10x sensing probes our buy price sound OK ?

Course it does, now get busy and find something similar ? 

[Fungus]

Course it does, now get busy and find something similar ? 

There's none on siglent.eu so I have no idea where you're looking.

https://www.siglent.eu/accessories/oscilloscope-probes

[tautech]

There's none on siglent.eu so I have no idea where you're looking.

You had just one job.....and yes I did never say where I was looking but I did say this 

Years of research had me find sources I am not willing to publicly share.
I've even used these to beat down the unjustified prices Siglent want for their probes. 

Now get busy willya !

[arturmariojr]

Hantek no!!! Stay away from this model you cited. It's very noisy. My one os unusable beyond 9MHz. I'm doing a cirjury on It these days, but I really do not expect fix the noise. Just beautifull trash.
Keep away and save your money, brain and humor.