Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China

[BravoV]

... I don't like this kind of things from any company. For me this is a dirty trick ...

For your own sake of sanity , and also your principal and pride, you should avoid Rigol like a disease, problem solved.

[Fungus]

I checked Batterfly and they only have the HDO4000.

rigolshop.eu has both but the HDO1000 says "over one month" for delivery:

https://rigolshop.eu/hdo1074.html

I was under the impression the HDO1000 wasn't available yet, that's why it wasn't on those sites.

Edit: Does anybody know of a place that has them in stock? Tequipment isn't listing them.

[Fungus]

correct. We are allowed to sell HDO4000 but not HDO1000.

Makes no sense to me. It's not as if Batronix are going to stop selling Siglents.

If Rigol only want to sell them via rigolshop.eu then they could just do that without mentioning Siglent.

 

[Martin72]

 Conrad Electronic have listed the "Killer", but only for commercial customers, not for privates.

[tv84]

Makes no sense to me. It's not as if Batronix are going to stop selling Siglents.

If Rigol only want to sell them via rigolshop.eu then they could just do that without mentioning Siglent.

 

Understand your questions but there may be plenty of reasons. One of them: margins.

[Fungus]

If Rigol only want to sell them via rigolshop.eu then they could just do that without mentioning Siglent.

Understand your questions but there may be plenty of reasons. One of them: margins.

Yes, but why bring Siglent into it?

[rf-design]

Here is a histogram of the 1 mV/div data. The data from the Rigol HDO looks different. Which effect can this be?

Peter

This is differential non-linearity, called DNL.

Less than -1LSB means non-monotonic and more than +1LSB mean missing code.

[2N3055]

Here is a histogram of the 1 mV/div data. The data from the Rigol HDO looks different. Which effect can this be?

Peter

Weird histogram, like rf-design says, can be some kind of nonlinearity..
Looking at it, it looks that parallel ADCs are either not calibrated or they don't contribute to the noise equally. You can see interlacing of several converters there..
A clean sinewave should be applied to scope and histogram of that should be taken.
If that one shows same grouping then ADC calibration is not right..
And that indeed would make this ADC non-monotonic and having not so good INL and DNL..
If sinewave shows better behaving histogram, then noise contribution of separate ADCs is not uniform, which would have no direct implication to performance, except weird noise distribution...

[Martin72]

Conrad Electronic have listed the "Killer", but only for commercial customers, not for privates.

Also the HDO4000....Mysterious thing.
Nevertheless, the prices for the HDO 1000 there, incl. VAT:

HDO1072 831.81€
HDO1102 1188.81€
HDO1202 1664.81€

HDO1074 1188.81€
HDO1104 1664.81€
HDO1204 2021.81€

2-Ch models I think no one wants to have in this days(you can´t grade them up to 4), so only 4-ch are interesting.
The nearest scope model to compare would be one of their own, the MSO5000.
Actually you can get the 5074 with optionbundle included for only 950€ incl. VAT (Batronix).
If you don´t need low noise measurement capability you would take this one instead.
Pros of the new hdo are 12 bit of course and the (here proofed) very low noise, maybe additional the 1" bigger display.
But the rest goes to the MSO5074 including MSO functionality, max samplerate, max memory, max bandwith, internal 2-ch awg, bode plot and so on.
For me the case would be clear, I would take the hdo regardless of it´s limitations.
Having true 12 bits is sexier than 8.

[JeremyC]

In the US the HDO1000 are less expensive, HDO1072 $699.
The MSO5074 is on sale for $799.

https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/hdo1000/


https://www.globaltestsupply.com/product/rigol-hdo1072-digital-oscilloscope

[EEVblog]

I contacted by email:
Hi,
thank you for your enquiry. We are distributor for Rigol AND Siglent. Therefore Rigol doesn`t allow us to sell the HDO series as long we are also working with Siglent. I am very sorry for no better news.
Phillip von Würzen

and my second email:
You are selling now the HDO4000 series. I think you mean the HDO1000 only. Is this right?

reply:

Hi,
correct. We are allowed to sell HDO4000 but not HDO1000.
Phillip von Würzen

I was very surprised of this, I'm interested in buying the HDO1000 but I don't like this kind of things from any company. For me this is a dirty trick and yes, Rigol can do whatever they want and choose the resellers they want and dictate them everything they want.

Try Brymen!
They will not allow me to sell any meter that is available from another (and only?) Australian dealer Cabac. They literally have the create entirely new models for me.
Same in other countries, this is why Brymens are hard to get in some contries. It's nuts.

[EEVblog]

Front end 

[hhappy1]

Fashionable Dave.

1mv, 50ohm, 20M BW, 100M point, 5ms.
1M point fft, 50Ms/s, 0~20M span.
In a similar setting to the above
I want to see the fft screen of hdo4000 for us.

Thank you always. ^______^

[Kleinstein]

The front end has a few confusing details:
there are 2, maybe 3  pi type attenuators, but there are no visible compensation capacitors for these.
I somewhat  miss a relatively high power 50 ohms resistor for the termination.


The histogram looks indeed strange. With a regular pattern that repeats after 5 steps this looks more like an effect of rounding and numerical scaling than an effect of interleaving multiple ADCs or some bit value errors, as these would more like repeat after 4 or 8 codes. The higher peaks also look quite exact at 2 x the hight compared to the others. So this could be from some  13 -> 12 Bit reduction in internal resolution.
It this is a scaling effect it may well change (different pattern) whent changing the range.

[EEVblog]

I somewhat  miss a relatively high power 50 ohms resistor for the termination.

It's the 45A just above the bottom relay, and the 50ohm path is the one on the left.
Yeah, it's wimpy.
And seems like they get hot. The front end ASIC and the new Centaur ADC ASIC are under a massive cast heatsink.

[EEVblog]

[Fungus]

So the thing most worth seeing inside is ... that there's really not much to see. Even an advanced Oscilloscope like this has been reduced to less than a dozen chips on a PCB and a minimal amount of discrete components.

PS: The bird on the PCB looks like a puffin to me. I wonder where  the centaur went.



https://www.google.com/search?q=puffin&tbm=isch

[Martin72]

This would be probably the last what me interest in a teardown...

[EEVblog]

So the thing most worth seeing inside is ... that there's really not much to see. Even an advanced Oscilloscope like this has been reduced to less than a dozen chips on a PCB and a minimal amount of small components.

Sadly, yep. Although that's that good for prices I guess.

PS: The bird on the PCB looks like a puffin to me. I wonder where  the centaur went.

Depending on where oyu look it's also called Centaurus

[Kleinstein]

The front end chips are coolded by the large heat sink, but this does not mean they actually produce much heat. It is one shared heat sink, that also does the shielding.

For the ADCs it makes sense that they have 4 inputs, so they can use them with a cheaper 4 channel scope.
Why they are using 2 paths to the front ends is still odd. For a single signal this does not make much sense, except maybe as a dealy for interleaving 2 ADCs.

From the resistor values in the attenuators both of the 2 paths visible on the left side are for the 50 ohms input, just with different attenuation. The resistors are too low to be of much use in the 1 M input path.
The termination may be shared from multiple resistors, including the attenuators.

The active probe PCB may be shared with other scopes (or at least planed to do so). To really make use of very low noise also for the higher frequencies an active probe really helps as can get away with less than a 1:10 divider at the input.

[Fungus]

So the thing most worth seeing inside is ... that there's really not much to see.

Sadly, yep.

Why sad? No mechanical marvels or little riser boards to pull out?

[EEVblog]

For the ADCs it makes sense that they have 4 inputs, so they can use them with a cheaper 4 channel scope.
Why they are using 2 paths to the front ends is still odd. For a single signal this does not make much sense, except maybe as a dealy for interleaving 2 ADCs.

The 50ohm path provides 800Mhz bandwidth vs 500MHz for the 1M path.

[MathWizard]

Ah ok so they HDO4000 is $3600 or whatever, but there is the HDO1000, starting at $700. I missed that in Dave's video, I thought 12-bit resolution was out of my price range but it's not.

I was going to get a SDS2104Xplus next spring and hack it to max BW. So I look forward to the reviews and any hacking of the HDO1000's.

If I want higher BW and 12-bit, I think getting both scopes would still be cheaper than the HDO4000 or Siglent 12bit scopes, and 2x the channels

[MathWizard]

So the HDO1204 is listed as $1700, about 1/2 the price of the SDS2104X HD. Besides the Rigol has lower waveforms/s and less memory, whats the difference ? Looks like I'll be getting a Rigol

[Frex]

Maybe the most difference is that Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 doesn't have logic analyzer.