Rigol HDO1000 and HDO4000 12bit oscilloscopes launched in China

[Bit2023]

Thank you for the reply.

would a upgraded Siglent SDS2000X plus do the job then?

(Just trying to see if I can money by not buying a microSA ultra for my HAM stuff)
- check Tx power - - time 5:20(ish)
- check FCC compliance (spurious emissions) - - time 5:34

[Fungus]

Thank you for the reply.

would a upgraded Siglent SDS2000X plus do the job then?

(Just trying to see if I can money by not buying a microSA ultra for my HAM stuff)

If it's for "HAM" then the TinySA ultra is designed for the job. They only cost around $120. 

https://www.tinysa.org/wiki/

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004934403303.html

[maxwell3e10]

I took some data to directly compare analog performance of Rigol DHO1074 to a now fairly old Owon XDS3062A with 12 bit resolution. Both were used with 500MS/sec sample rate and 1 Mpts. Rigol is not upgraded. I measured noise with 1 MOhm shorted input on 1 mV/div scale and 1 V/div scale. I also tested them with a sine generator, HP3326, to check nonlinearity.


In general, I would say there is no absolute winner. Owon scope still has a higher dynamic range on 1 V/div scale so is a better "HD", but it also has a somewhat larger non-linearity and messier spectrum at high frequency. The noise spectrum on 1mV/div is on average similar, but Rigol's is much cleaner. One place were there is a large difference in favor of Rigol, by nearly an order of magnitude, is in how long it takes to transfer data to the computer over Ethernet.

[colorado.rob]

Thank you for the reply.

would a upgraded Siglent SDS2000X plus do the job then?

(Just trying to see if I can money by not buying a microSA ultra for my HAM stuff)

No, they are intended for very different purposes.

In general, you want a device that has at least 4x higher bandwidth than the highest frequency you will be testing. You want to be able to see at least the first 3 harmonics. And for 70cm band, that means on the order of 2GHz. For that, a spectrum analyzer is the best option. The cheapest option for your needs is an RTL-SDR ($20) with the right spectrum analysis software, but the bandwidth is a bit low for UHF harmonic analysis. A Pluto SDR ($200) would be my go-to recommendation for hams as a general purpose instrument for RF analysis for those on a budget. It easily has the frequency range required.

A lab quality instrument to meet your needs is an SVA1032X (or uphack an SVA1015X).

[tautech]

A lab quality instrument to meet your needs is an SVA1032X (or uphack an SVA1015X).

Not possible.

[trinacria]

Does UltraScope support the DHO1000 series?

I've installed everything (UltraSigma, UltraScope, NI VISA, DHO1000 LVI driver) multiple times. Though I haven't found "Ultrascope for DHO1000" software like there exists for other scopes.

Web view works. SCPI works through UltraSigma over USB and LAN. But there's no UltraScope option, I don't see the instrument in the device tree, and I can't manually add its VISA address.

[skander36]

No it does not work as far as I know.
You don't loose too much because is an old software, full of bugs and very slow. They rely on web control interface for remote control. This is fast and provide you with all you need, even capture screen as movie.

[Martin72]

After more than a year of "blockade", Batronix is now offering the DHO1000 after all ??

https://www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DHO1074.html

What could be the reason why it suddenly goes...

[Fungus]

 

[ebastler]

After more than a year of "blockade", Batronix is now offering the DHO1000 after all ??
What could be the reason why it suddenly goes...

I've been wondering about that. Is it public knowledge why they were not selling it before, and what has caused the change now?

[Martin72]

Hi,

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-hdo1000-and-hdo4000-12bit-oscilloscopes-launched-in-china/msg4437196/#msg4437196

Maybe they have now gotten "permission" from rigol.

[ebastler]

Maybe they have now gotten "permission" from rigol.

Thanks, I had missed that little episode...
Strange; haven't Batterfly sold the DHO1000 (and Siglent scopes) all along?

I'm curious whether there will be further competitive moves by Rigol. A DHO1000 variant with LA and AWG is overdue, I'd say. Wonder how they will call (and price) it -- DHO1200, 1500, 2000?

[Martin72]

You'll laugh, but that was already going through my head today.
If you look at the models, it somehow doesn't seem well thought out.
Or experimental.
We'll throw something on the market and see what the reactions are like.
I had the biggest model here, now the smallest model, so I actually know all of them.
Rigol would have to revise the DHO1000, equip it with a second ADC, built-in AWG and LA.
However, this would mean that nobody would buy either the DHO1000 or the DHO4000 any more.
Or an upgraded version of the DHO4000, with one ADC per channel in order to maintain the bandwidth/sampling rate for all channels.
But that would be so expensive that hardly anyone would buy it in view of the alternatives from Siglent or even R&S.
As I said, I don't think the current range of models is well thought out.

[dreamcat4]

well my general assumption (so far) has been that....

they simply cannot release all intended products at same time. but have to stagger and focus on a pathway from one conquest to the next. (and perhaps learning something each time)

having this gap (for mso awg + la) between 900 and 8000 (on same general shared platform family) is indeed conceeding a middle ground or 'mid range' to competitors. yet also they just are still not yet up to scratch into the firmwares.

if 1 shared firmware team has gotten it right or wrong yet for the 8000 series? i mean for these missing mso features. then to translate that downwards onto less capable hardwares yet... the technical demands of both awg and la seems pretty low by comparison to the 12-bit analog.

so what's the crazy chinese approach here? managers running awry, or some technical holdups / bottleneck within a single resource constrained team? or something else entirely?

for example you point to the cost and competition in mid-range segment. which is surely true atm. but rigol could still stand some chance to get their act together. plus how good did the 8000 digital features ever gotten anyhow? or still remains some poorly selling / incomplete wip?

or maybe its instead to a level of some bom components shortage or other market facing penny counting of accountants as to which products is actually selling versus competition?

or maybe because its what china actually thinks it needs domestically. that these scopes are commissioned to help china's own internal market over and above international exports. so in this mindset then the western criterias simple don't matter very much. and what china is asking for is both

a) some very cheap and capable scopes, for the masses (and that anybody can afford, for regular / orginairy and low levels stuff)

and

b) ok plus just 1 high end flagship model too. for the pros in cutting edge businessess that can afford to pony up the dough for an 8000 level. and to have a home grown chinese option internally manufactured for that segment too.

this would then put both the 1000 and 4000 mid tiers into a grey zone category of 'meduim' sme or things. so is that really what china wants too aswell? i suppose its for who is calling the shots. and getting the requests / demands asks?

i say this at the same time that (for some unknown reason) that the 1074 is 50% discounted in jp. which is also a bit strange seeming situatuin too? or perhaps jp gets some unique exporting / trading arrangements? very odd.

[ebastler]

Rigol would have to revise the DHO1000, equip it with a second ADC, built-in AWG and LA.
However, this would mean that nobody would buy either the DHO1000 or the DHO4000 any more.
Or an upgraded version of the DHO4000, with one ADC per channel in order to maintain the bandwidth/sampling rate for all channels.
But that would be so expensive that hardly anyone would buy it in view of the alternatives from Siglent or even R&S.
As I said, I don't think the current range of models is well thought out.

I would assume that the plan is to keep the current range of DHO models on the market, and complement the DHO1000 and 4000 with sister models, much like the DHO800/900 siblings.

If the follow the DHO800/900 lead, these "big sisters" would be closely based on the DHO1000 and 4000, respectively. They would include the LA and AWG, and some further, minor differentiating features: Maybe "slightly better" bandwidth, if Rigol follow the DHO800/900 pattern; include full memory option of the smaller model as standard; throw in some software/analysis features.

Something like these -- just speculation of course:

DHO2000
- 2 GSa/s (single ADC)
- 150 and 300 MHz bandwidth?
- 100 MPts memory
- Logic Analyser
- AWG (in -S model variant)
- I²S, power analysis?

DHO5000
- 4 GSa/s (single ADC)
- 200, 400, 800 MHz bandwidth
- 500 MPts memory
- Logic Analyser
- AWG (in -S model variant)
- I²S, power analysis, what else?

As a further step, there's room above the 5000 for a dual-ADC model (or even quad) maybe?

[idolclub]

Rigol releases new DHO1000U series:

DHO1202U, 2 channel, 200MHz, 2GSa/s, 50Mpts(opt.), 500,000wfms/s

DHO1204U, 4 channel, 200MHz, 2GSa/s, 50Mpts(opt.), 500,000wfms/s


Chinese Datasheet:
https://www.rigol.com/file/DHO1000U%E6%95%B0%E6%8D%AE%E6%89%8B%E5%86%8C.pdf

[phecap]

Black Friday Promotion: RIGOL Digital Oscilloscopes
Products: DHO1000 Series including DHO 1072, DHO 1074, DHO1102, DHO 1104, DHO 1202, and DHO 1204.
Unprecedented 40% discount!
Valid from Black Friday 24/11/2023 to 30/11/2023.

https://www.rigol.eu/NEWS/news/58.html

[Antonio90]

Maybe they have better info than us about the SDS1000X HD release date and price? 

[Martin72]

On the website, DHO1000 is "only" 10% less...

[Antonio90]

On the website, DHO1000 is "only" 10% less...

The promotion starts in a week I think.

[dreamcat4]

So what is this "DHO100U" models difference? Sorry I cannot have time to translate the chinese or to guess about it.

[TomKatt]

Black Friday Promotion: RIGOL Digital Oscilloscopes
Products: DHO1000 Series including DHO 1072, DHO 1074, DHO1102, DHO 1104, DHO 1202, and DHO 1204.
Unprecedented 40% discount!
Valid from Black Friday 24/11/2023 to 30/11/2023.

https://www.rigol.eu/NEWS/news/58.html

Does anyone know if that applies to the US market as well?  Or just EU?

I didn't see any reference to that sale on the Rigol NA website...

edit - a hackable DHO1074 with 1280x800 10.1" screen would be nice at $600...

[Martin72]

@Antonio90:
God, I'm blind...

[Fungus]

edit - a hackable DHO1074 with 1280x800 10.1" screen would be nice at $600...

Also more memory and 2GS/sec.

Maybe they have better info than us about the SDS1000X HD release date and price? 

Maybe just that that model isn't selling much since the DHO800 came out.

Or maybe they're planning an MSO model.

[TomKatt]

edit - a hackable DHO1074 with 1280x800 10.1" screen would be nice at $600...

Also more memory and 2GS/sec.

Doesn't the DHO1000 series also provide for dual ADC or something so you can run 2 channels at full speed like the SDS1104X-E ?  The DHO800 series cuts down sampling rate for 2 channels.

edit - N/M just watched Dave's video on the HDO1000 and alas it also uses a single ADC.  Still, 2gbs sampling rate goes further than 1.25