Rigol's New Function Generator and DMM: DG800Pro / 900Pro / DM858

[PELL]

Looks pretty decent to me    (not really)

Update: I purchased one about a month ago, and here are some teardown photos

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-new-dg822pro-teardown

Currently the software on this is an disaster, so pls don't buy it.


Here are some main specs:

DG800Pro: Up to 50M, 625MSa/s, 16-bits resolution, 20 harmonics max.
Starting at $280 (trans from CNY), possible $299 in global

DG900Pro: Up to 200M, 1.25GSa/s,  16-bits resolution, 20 harmonics max.
Starting at $680 (trans from CNY), possible $699 in global

One thing I personally interested is the Amplitude: Up to 20Vpp at high impedence or 10Vpp at 50 ohm 

Edit: The DMM part I put it on the latest reply in this thread

[PELL]

here is the 900 Pro and some more

[PELL]

Foegot to mentioned it also comes with a Frequency Counter

DG800 Pro: 7 digits, Up to 500M

DG900 Pro: 7 digits. Up to 1G

[ebastler]

Nice DHO900 styling -- "collect 'em all!" 

But I will never understand what the Rigol designers were smoking when they introduced those circular number keys. How am I expected to enter numbers there?! What's wrong with the rectangular arrangement used on calculators or phones?! Who wants a lab instrument that looks like a toy? I am flabbergasted that they kept this absurd button arrangement on the new series.

[iMo]

Now, how to make Bode with the DHO804+DG800

[PELL]

Now, how to make Bode with the DHO804+DG800

I think someone can make a Python script using the LAN SCPI to control both instruments and draw a Bode automatically

[PELL]

And I found this Rigol patent from The China Patent Office

The patent name is "DMM", so there might be another DHO-liked product coming soon!

[NE666]

Personally, ridiculous numeric keypad layout aside, I'm very pleased to see this.  Since first sight of the DHO 800/900 series I'd hoped Rigol would leverage the form factor for other instruments.  And, hopefully, here we are and much sooner than expected.

VESA mount and external USB power.  Very bench space friendly, compared to the "shoeboxes" we've been accustomed to for signal generators, counters, bench DMMs etc.

UI consistency with the DHO series suggests that Rigol has settled on Android-based platforms for future development.

Thanks OP for sharing.
 

[ebastler]

VESA mount and external USB power.  Very bench space friendly, compared to the "shoeboxes" we've been accustomed to for signal generators, counters, bench DMMs etc.

Rigol should offer a rail for wall-mounting the new instrument lineup, like this Braun/Rams classic. 

[Martin72]

One thing I personally interested is the Amplitude: Up to 20Vpp at high impedence or 10Vpp at 50 ohm

I miss the CMOS level output with 15V unipolar in today's generators.
Or a little more "power", e.g. to be able to drive small transformers directly or gates from Mosfets/IGBTs.

Very bench space friendly, compared to the "shoeboxes" we've been accustomed to for signal generators, counters, bench DMMs etc.

I always ask myself what is missing when something is very small.

Who wants a lab instrument that looks like a toy?

Consent.
I like the display and the arrangement, but the right-hand side with the buttons...
I find it confusing and visually unsuccessful, especially when it comes to white letters/numbers on a black background.
Otherwise, "case recycling" is an interesting idea, scope, generator, multimeter, possibly power supply unit, spectrum analyzer...
You then have to take a closer look at which device you need to switch on.

[NE666]

I always ask myself what is missing when something is very small.

In the good 'ol days of HP, probably a honking great toroidal transformer and with it, a high quality, low noise linear power supply.  But that was never going to happen here.  So all that's really gone is probably yet another generic SMPS.

In my opinion a good few "second tier" instrument manufacturers have just been following suit with accepted cases with bail handle designs for years.  If it shares HP/Agilent aesthetics, it must be as good, right?  It's refreshing to see some innovation and some outside the box (case?) thinking.

 

[thm_w]

Nice DHO900 styling -- "collect 'em all!" 

But I will never understand what the Rigol designers were smoking when they introduced those circular number keys. How am I expected to enter numbers there?! What's wrong with the rectangular arrangement used on calculators or phones?! Who wants a lab instrument that looks like a toy? I am flabbergasted that they kept this absurd button arrangement on the new series.

If you've used a DP832, it works, its not as good as a number pad but it is usable. You easily adapt as the numbers are in order, and A/mA, V, mV are straightforward locations (and are really useful since you can hit '5' -> 'V' as you would type it out). I still agree a normal numpad would be better.
Here? It does seem a wilder of a choice. Where is the V button? Its just M/G/k/hz. So its easy to type in frequency but not easy to enter a voltage.

DG4000 for comparison:


Now on to the real question.. is the hardware of the DG800pro and DG900pro going to be the same?

[PELL]

Now on to the real question.. is the hardware of the DG800pro and DG900pro going to be the same?

I think most of the parts will be the same. It should based on the RK3399 + ZYNQ + Rigol's own ASIC and running Andriod just like DHO scopes.

About the ASIC, Rigol mentioned it in their release press. It was integrated with wave-gen, amp, variable filters, protection, etc.

So... this thing is likely hackable

But one thing they might do is let the weaker (defected?) ASIC goes into the lower 800 Pro? Not sure though

Anyway, it will be available in China from late November. Hope someone can get one and take it apart.

[NE666]

it works, its not as good as a number pad but it is usable. ...It does seem a wilder of a choice. Where is the V button? Its just M/G/k/hz. So its easy to type in frequency but not easy to enter a voltage.

*IF* the touch UI is well implemented, it becomes somewhat of a non-issue. If.

[NE666]

It should based on the RK3399 + ZYNQ + Rigol's own ASIC and running Andriod just like DHO scopes.

Cue speculation, complaints and 10 pages of hacking suggestions regarding fan noise in 3, 2, ..

[NE666]

Is anyone able to access the data sheets for these instruments from the international site (rigol.com)?

Links are provided on the product pages but these are currently timing out for me.

[PELL]

Is anyone able to access the data sheets for these instruments from the international site (rigol.com)?

Unfortunately the specs sheets are only avalible in Chinese at RIGOL China website and you need to sign in to download it.

However if you do interested in the specs, I download it and upload to Google Drive here (Chinese Language Only, might need a translator) 

DG800 Pro: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1TOzQ7TxM7RYNXCLkJL1_nGDDlOc7VNua/view?usp=sharing
DG900 Pro: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1P2cEduwfcy9q_PYcQzfVDEr4KNOYMiuy/view?usp=sharing 

[idolclub]

DG800 Pro Datasheet Chinese Edition:
https://www.rigol.com/Images/DG800Pro_DataSheet_CN%281%29_tcm4-6267.pdf


DG900Pro DataSheet Chinese Edition:
https://www.rigol.com/Images/DG900Pro_DataSheet_CN%281%29_tcm4-6257.pdf

[Martin72]

THD<0.1%("Audio  Range")....Not bad.

[nctnico]

Unfortunately the jitter specification is not just bad, it is laughably bad. On par with the UNI-T UTG932

[2N3055]

THD<0.1%("Audio  Range")....Not bad.

Not really spectacular either..

16 bit generator I have has cca. 0.015% THD in audio range at 1V RMS, measured with Pico4262 at 100 Hz, 1 Khz and 10 kHz..
And that is not low distortion audio gen, but a gen purpose AWG.

Distortion on DG800Pro / 900Pro should be measured, this spec is not as good as it should be for 16Bit Gen.
My old DG1000Z (14bit) is close to that.

Low distortion gen in Pico is 0,002-0,003% (90dBc) THD, two orders of magnitude better. And that measurement is limited by scope inputs.

But honestly AWG is not best tool for super low distortion signal anyways.
For general purpose use even 0.1% is more than good enough.

[PELL]

Unfortunately the jitter specification is not just bad, it is laughably bad. On par with the UNI-T UTG932

Totally agree, I would expect they can set a new benchmark performance at entry-level market.
Maybe they just can't reach that performance with custom ASIC

[MathWizard]

I would like more spacing between the big main digits, or between groups of 3, and bigger decimal's, maybe another rounder font so they don't blend together so much. I think that would be annoying/hard for some people to read even from 3-4ft.

[MathWizard]

Unfortunately the jitter specification is not just bad, it is laughably bad. On par with the UNI-T UTG932

How do Siglent's compare ? I have a sdg2142x but it's my 1st AWG. I'm thinking about getting a faster 1, upto 500MHz, like the sdg6000 series. Then useless +1GHz models drop a lot in price in the next few years, whatever I get next will probably be my last AWG.

I don't own any Rigol stuff yet, but I do like some of it. But then again I have Siglent scopes, so their AWG pairs with their scopes.

[Martin72]

How do Siglent's compare ?

Rigol 200ps, UTG932 150ps, SDG2000X 150ps, SDG6000 100ps, SDG7000A 10ps, R&S HMF2550 <1ns...

[PELL]

And I found this Rigol patent from The China Patent Office

The patent name is "DMM", so there might be another DHO-liked product coming soon!

They made it! Just today Rigol drops the DM858 and DM858E

But the specs isnt that amazing:

DM858: 5.5 digits, 125 reads/s, 0.03% precision.  $499
DM858E: 5.5 digits, 80 reads/s, 0.06% precision. $274

  And it probaly still running Andriod, I personally think this isnt the best choice for an DMM... I dont want to wait like 1-min before I can actually start mesuring something 

[ebastler]

DM858: 5.5 digits, 125 reads/s, 0.03% precision.  $499
DM858E: 5.5 digits, 80 reads/s, 0.06% precision. $274

Uh-oh, shouldn't the high-end model be black?? How are style-conscious users supposed to live with that hodgepodge of instruments on their bench? 

Edit: The graphics designer really went a bit overboard with the eye candy, for my taste. What's the deal with the fake vacuum fluorescent display? I hope it does not fade over time like the real thing...

[idolclub]

DM858 DataSheet CN

https://www.rigol.com/Images/DM858_DataSheet_CN_tcm4-6190.pdf

[Njk]

Very bench space friendly, compared to the "shoeboxes" we've been accustomed to for signal generators, counters, bench DMMs etc.

OTOH a dull shoeboxes can be stacked resulting in real space saving. A NY-style riser seems definitely better for demo purposes, but it's not a scope where the screen is an essential feature.

[Martin72]

They made it! Just today Rigol drops the DM858 and DM858E

One thing in advance, I like rigol no question.
But most of what they do always looks like a cheap toy.
And that too, I would never want to buy something like that and put it there.
The form factor is also completely wrong for a multimeter.

[thm_w]

This would be the perfect form factor for a DMM6500 type device (graphing, multiple inputs). Sadly it looks like it has no advanced features at all.

[NE666]

Very bench space friendly, compared to the "shoeboxes" we've been accustomed to for signal generators, counters, bench DMMs etc.

OTOH a dull shoeboxes can be stacked resulting in real space saving.

Vertically, of course.  But it doesn't help with workspace depth i.e. front to back.  These slim style instruments do address that, albeit by discarding the PSU altogether, which then has to go somewhere else.  However, at least you get the choice e.g. under your bench.  If you've a proper electronics workstation, with the caveat of having the physical space for it in your chosen room, then it's a non-issue.  A lot of hobbyists have to make do with multi-purpose desks/tables in their homes, which is where I think this is a bit of a win.

[NE666]

it probaly still running Andriod, I personally think this isnt the best choice for an DMM... I dont want to wait like 1-min before I can actually start mesuring something 

I see what you're saying but still, does anyone *just* own a bench multimeter though?  I speak only for myself of course but I don't turn on my 344111A to make one or two quick measurements.  That's why a I keep a small population of handhelds, well, to hand!

[PELL]

Update:

I just found an upgrade license for the DG800Pro one channel version named "DG800Pro-DCH---channel upgrade option" in Rigol CN

(Yes, the lowest $299 model only gives you one available channel)

For those who are familiar with the old DG800 (without Pro), it is exactly the same: Hardware supports 2 channels, but software locks down one of them and upgradable.

Looks like this is very hackable

[NE666]

It's very unlikely that Dave will read this, and he's a busy man in any case however, if you were to be - is there any chance that you might request a trial unit from Rigol?   If only for an unboxing and a quick poke around its capabilities?

Given the significant contribution to their sales revenue that your reviews and this forum have undoubtedly made over the years, it would be churlish of them not to oblige.

TIA

[PELL]

if you were to be - is there any chance that you might request a trial unit from Rigol?   If only for an unboxing and a quick poke around its capabilities?

Hi! I would like to get a trial too, but I am not sure if they will respond to individual trial requests.

btw the product will start shipping at the end of December. Maybe it will not too long before we can actually see a review.

Best

[NE666]

btw the product will start shipping at the end of December.

Good to know, thanks.  However, if that's the case, I suspect that it won't be available in western markets until 4-6 months later.  Which may not be such a bad thing - I also suspect that, at this time, it's very much a product which is still being cooked.  e.g. there's no user manual published yet, just the quick setup guide.  The spec sheet also looks sparse, compared to the DG800/900 series.  A little time to mature may be no bad thing.

[DaneLaw]

Looks like they are in the process of shipping these from CN, had one [DG821pro] in backorder since the black friday sale (nov), and the first update was yesterday.

Promosheets..
DG800pro series
http://tinyurl.com/yfda5uny

DG900Pro series
http://tinyurl.com/395yepk4

[NE666]

And despite being officially available in Rigol's CN online store there is still no sign of a full product manual.  I'm about ready to give up on a return to the days when TE manufacturers kept skilled technical writers on staff and felt obligated to provide customers with complete, comprehensive and polished documentation.

The new "VESA enabled" DMM has been launched in that market too, with the same issue.

(Not to mention both also being afflicted by the UI cancer which is their new numeric font).

[pasik]

First review of DM858:

https://youtu.be/u8b5gk9B6sY?si=snLz2PGAvtlzi1gi

[Demon Xanth]

Interesting that the DM858E is nerfed on the current to 3.15A from 10A. Wonder if this is a fuse change. Reading storage is nerfed, likely a key change. Haven't been able to make out how far the frequency function works up to in the manual.

[DaneLaw]

First review of DM858:

https://youtu.be/u8b5gk9B6sY?si=snLz2PGAvtlzi1gi

It's the E-variant that got somewhat inferior specs vs DM858,  but more or less the same bootup time as Rigol's DG800PRO signal gen - a tad over 65 sec.

The incl. PSU brand seems to differ, LITEON vs DELTA but could also just be minor production variables, as the charge protocols are identical...

* DG800PRO datasheet put in #37 hence pr post/8K kB-file limitations.

[thm_w]

Interesting that the DM858E is nerfed on the current to 3.15A from 10A. Wonder if this is a fuse change. Reading storage is nerfed, likely a key change. Haven't been able to make out how far the frequency function works up to in the manual.

Frequency measurements,
Voltage: 100kHz
Current: 10kHz

[DaneLaw]

A glance into the build-in waveforms DG800PRO..looks to be a tad over 150..

There is also User-manual (108pages) & Quick Guide. (24pages) for both series.
english translated (aut)  if somebody wants them, I will gladly upload them..

// DG900PRO user manual 108 pages English [BOT]
Two parts hence 8000KB limit, second part page 55-108 in post below

[DaneLaw]

Took a look at the latest FW update release notes for my DG800PRO signal generator but it's a lot of volapyk, likely from the script translation.

The new 12-1-2024 GEL-fw file is the same between DG800PRO & DG900PRO series, so it does seem like they share a lot of the same hardware DNA.
https://download.rigol.com/cn/Firmware/Waveform%20Generator/DG800%26DG900%20Pro/DG800Pro_DG900Pro(ARM)Update.rar

Tried some of the regional script standards in Notepad, but none of them would play along.?
How do you read these Chinese release notes?

[thm_w]

Tried some of the regional script standards in Notepad, but none of them would play along.?
How do you read these Chinese release notes?

It looks like this has happened before and its some kind of encrypted/mis saved file: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg4943083/#msg4943083

[zrq]

Tried some of the regional script standards in Notepad, but none of them would play along.?
How do you read these Chinese release notes?

Try GB2312 encoding. Or drag it to a modern browser like Firefox, which is smart enough to recognize it when running on English Windows without Chinese support installed.

[baldurn]

Appears this is becoming available, although only in a few stores?

DG821PRO €269 https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/generatore-di-funzione-rigol-dg821-25-mhz-single-channel
DG822PRO €399 https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/generatore-di-funzione-rigol-dg822-pro-25-mhz-dual-channel
DG852PRO €469 https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/generatore-di-funzione-rigol-dg852-pro-50-mhz-dual-channel
DG902PRO €639 https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/generatore-di-funzione-rigol-dg902-pro-70-mhz-dual-channel
DG912PRO €839 https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/generatore-di-funzione-rigol-dg912-pro-150-mhz-dual-channel
DG922PRO €1099 https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/generatore-di-funzione-rigol-dg922-pro-200-mhz-dual-channel

DM858E €339 https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/multimetro-rigol-dm858e-5-e-1-2-digit
DM858 €439 https://www.rigolitalia.it/products/multimetro-rigol-dm858-5-e-1-2-digit

But a bit suspicious that I can only find it on an Italian site. Hopeful it will be available in english soon as well.

Now the big question. Is any of this upgradeable (hackable) ?

[DaneLaw]

...
But a bit suspicious that I can only find it on an Italian site. Hopeful it will be available in english soon as well.

Now the big question. Is any of this upgradeable (hackable) ?

You can get these models from many European sources.
Eleshop, Batterfly etc. etc been for sale for some weeks now.  https://www.batterfly.com/shop/en/blog-posts/rigol-dm800-dg800pro-dg900pro-introduction
Also all the manuals, and datasheets are in English, so I don't have to rely on bot-translated CN variants from Nov.

[baldurn]

You can get these models from many European sources.
Eleshop, Batterfly etc. etc been for sale for some weeks now.  https://www.batterfly.com/shop/en/blog-posts/rigol-dm800-dg800pro-dg900pro-introduction
Also all the manuals, and datasheets are in English, so I don't have to rely on bot-translated CN variants from Nov.

Eleshop says "Expected on 15 Mar" on some models and "lead time 10 days" on others, so not quite there yet but really soon?

Still waiting to hear if we can unlock them 

[DaneLaw]

You can get these models from many European sources.
Eleshop, Batterfly etc. etc been for sale for some weeks now.  https://www.batterfly.com/shop/en/blog-posts/rigol-dm800-dg800pro-dg900pro-introduction
Also all the manuals, and datasheets are in English, so I don't have to rely on bot-translated CN variants from Nov.

Eleshop says "Expected on 15 Mar" on some models and "lead time 10 days" on others, so not quite there yet but really soon?

Still waiting to hear if we can unlock them 

These European resellers usually get them in very limited quantities, fx 1 or 2 of each model, and new batch with a few will come a few weeks later, depending on demand.. stock estimates are quite volatile.. I don't know how much confidence you can put into these lead times.
Manual.
https://static.eleshop.nl/mage/media/downloads/DG800Pro_UserGuide_EN.pdf
Sheet
https://static.eleshop.nl/mage/media/downloads/DG800Pro_DataSheet_EN.pdf
Programming guide
https://static.eleshop.nl/mage/media/downloads/DG800ProDG900Pro_ProgrammingGuide_EN.pdf

The big question obviously is how liberateable/hackable the cheaper models actually are.
The older non-PRO model model DG8xx as I understand could be ported a good way up the ladder.. DG992 ?? (though with some lack of linearity).

If these lower-end 800PRO models to a few hundred can be hacked' it would elevate the demand quite a bit... the highest 900PRO model does have some potent fundamentals..[1.25Gs/s - 16Bit - 200MHz - 32M]
I have no idea how hackable they are,  the GEL update file on my unit, is identical between DG800PRO & DG900PRO
Officially only 2 options on the DG800PRO series... * memory & * channel.
The big 7" touchscreen screen is a pleasure to work with on a signal-gen and the power bank ability is also a big plus (35W/15v)
- but the temperature-controlled fan in this latest form factor-line from Rigol. *Scope, *Pro Sig Gen, and likely also *5½DMM is far from pleasant, and the bootup time is also quite extensive.

[csuhi17]

Can you tell me if it is possible to load my own waveform?
I couldn't find it in the user manual.

[thm_w]

Now available in north america:
https://www.rigolna.com/products/waveform-generators/dg800-pro/
https://www.rigolcanada.com/products/waveform-generators/dg800-pro/

DG821 Pro 25MHz 1CH $399 USD $527 CAD 
DG822 Pro 25MHz 2CH $439 USD $579 CAD   
DG852 Pro 50MHz 2CH $499 USD $659 CAD
DG902 Pro 70MHz 2CH $699 USD $923 CAD
DG912 Pro 150MHz 2CH $899 USD $1187 CAD

[PELL]

Can you tell me if it is possible to load my own waveform?
I couldn't find it in the user manual.

  Me neither, so I contacted their support, and they told me "This is still in polishing so there is no UI". 

Anyway, They do tell me how to load in custom waveform:

1. Download Ultra Station software and edit your waveform

2. Save it as "xxx.raf" format and rename it to "xxx.arb"

3. copy it to USB stick, and send SCPI command via USB or IP, the command is "MMEM:LOAD:DATA 1,USB:/xxx.arb"

4. turn off and on the output again, and now you should have your custom wave.

This is absolutely a disaster, I do get custom output but the waveform isn't what I expect at all. Also you cant change amplitude or frequency. 

[PELL]

ATTENTION FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO BUY:

DO NOT BUY IT AT THIS STAGE

You don't get custom waveform because the software is "still in development" (quotes from their support)

[csuhi17]

Thanks PELL.

If anyone has the DM858/E, could you tell me if it is capable of continuous recording?

I mean when I want to log the stability of a power supply with the highest frequency (80-125 Readings/s) for several days.
I want the function when the DMM reaches the maximum 20k/500k, then save the file to a flash drive and then start recording again until I stop it or the storage is full.

[DaneLaw]

...

@PELL - Are you a'jour with the Chinese forums?

Are there any development hence hacking/liberating it, also in regards to the basic options (ch/mem) and to what extent there are hw-differences between the models [DG900PRO & DG800PRO]
Are you on the firmware from 12-1-2024

// https://www.rigol.com/products/DG_detail/DG800Pro

[tszaboo]

The DM858 has just been released to the EU market, I don't think anyone has it yet.
I'm a bit interested in this meter, it looks like it could be a capable little meter when I look at it from one point, the form factor and the user interface. On the other hand when I'm reading the specification, I feel like it's using an off the shelf handheld multimeter chipset. Like 3% AC accuracy? On some ranges it has worse accuracy than the GW121.
I'm a bit surprised there isn't more talk about these, especially after the success of the 800 series scopes.

[ebastler]

[...] when I'm reading the specification, I feel like it's using an off the shelf handheld multimeter chipset.

With a one minute boot time, presumably, since it will run Android. 

I'm a bit surprised there isn't more talk about these, especially after the success of the 800 series scopes.

Maybe Rigol have pushed the "style over substance" a bit too far with these ones?
And frankly, I don't even like the style. Those "fake luminescent" digits, and the circular number pad? Too toy-like for my taste.

[csuhi17]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, I had overlooked it.
Compared to the similarly priced Siglent, the accuracy of the DM858 is ridiculous. 

I wouldn't be affected by the switch-on time, because it needs to warm up a bit for accurate measurement anyway.
If I want to do a quick less accurate measurement, I use any Owon DMM I have or my Aneng A3009.

I like the flat design with a large display.

I would not have used the round numpad, I prefer the touch screen.

But now I'm a little unsure if it's worth it.
I've already found three things I don't like about it.
Why is the color white for both?
Its inaccuracy in RMS measurement...
Most likely, it could not be used as I would like for logging.

[DaneLaw]

I would not have used the round numpad, I prefer the touch screen.

Its the DMM DM858/E, you were looking at?

[csuhi17]

I would not have used the round numpad, I prefer the touch screen.

Its the DMM DM858/E, you were looking at?

I misunderstood ebastler's post.
He wrote for AWG and I meant for DMM.
But I would also use the touch screen on the AWG. I'm already good with the stylus.

[DaneLaw]

I misunderstood ebastler's post.
He wrote for AWG and I meant for DMM.
But I would also use the touch screen on the AWG. I'm already good with the stylus.

I sensed that  but yeah you're right..these funky round Rigol num-dials are far from ideal,  I primarily also use the screen for touch-input and stay away from the Round numdials, but mostly I use an active stylus as it makes it easy to flip from the touchscreen on the scope STO1104C to the AWGDG821PRO when you can use the same active stylus across both.

[thm_w]

Yeah the digits font is really dumb, they need an option to change it back to regular solid font.

I was wrong about graphing on DM858, it looks like they have some basic graphing functionality:


But the logging is only 500,000 samples for some reason? That is ~1hr at the max sample rate (125s/s).

[ebastler]

Yep, sorry -- I had mixed up which of two instruments has the circular number pad. In my defense, it is so pointless, it might well be on either of them. 

[DaneLaw]

An example of the active stylus on the Rigol AWG
It's an older Stylus model, the "active" aspect works on anything with a capacitive touchscreen, so all modern Siglent & Rigol and other brands lab-gear with a capacitive touchscreen.

I turn it off midway through the video, to show the difference of the "active" part.

[PELL]

Are you on the firmware from 12-1-2024

Yes

Are there any development hence hacking/liberating it

Not really at this moment, seems like very few people are interested in this new DGPro at least in China.

I did try to hack this machine but very few cludes were found. Since I don't have a DG900Pro series or DG852Pro, this gonna take a while  before we can actually start hacking it.

[ivantankj]

Just like to share some early comparisons I did with my DM858E against my Hioki DT4261, and to keep it consistent, I used the fabulous Hioki probes on both DMMs. In continuity mode, the response speed of DM858E is nowhere near as instantaneous as the Hioki. The sensitivity of the probes seems to be on the lower side as well, and would require a heavier hand and a more deliberate effort to register a reading, whereas on my Hioki, gliding along the chip pins would easily pick up the continuity signal with nary a hassle. I think I'm spoilt with the DT4261. The "sluggishness" of the Rigol is something I hope they can improve over time. Onto the capacitance reading as well, took a fair bit longer (5-10secs?) to get a reading of in/out-of-circuit capacitors... anyway, for the price I paid which is around ~USD310 for a bench DMM versus a portable one, I guess it's to be expected.

[gbix]

I have a dg821pro and I managed to turn it into a dg922pro with all the additional options
Therefore, you can safely buy simple models 

[DaneLaw]

I have a dg821pro and I managed to turn it into a dg922pro with all the additional options
Therefore, you can safely buy simple models 

gbix @ If its a relatively straightforward process and your willing to share it, to the point that others can follow suit, maybe think about starting a new thread
- so it ain't getting out watered in this mixed Rigol multimeter/signal gen (all for one) thread.

[baldurn]

I have a dg821pro and I managed to turn it into a dg922pro with all the additional options
Therefore, you can safely buy simple models 

How?

[gbix]

I need do some test on different devices

if you want try update your GD800/900 pro device to max version or any other pm me for instruction
You can switch to older version at any time

[gbix]

last news for DG821pro
device can't produce frq above 200mhz ;(
but can do modulation (am and fm modulation) up to 200mhz

[ToThePub]

For those of us in Australia, Emona has just listed the DG 8/900 Pro's:
https://emona.com.au/products/electronic-test-measure/function-generators-counters

Also listed the DM 858:
https://emona.com.au/dm858/

[Construct]

I'm surprised the DG800Pro series contains the hardware for the higher sample rates of the DG900Pro series.

The teardown ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-new-dg822pro-teardown ) shows a TI DAC38J82, which is a 2.5GSPS dual channel DAC (1.25GSPS per channel).

Strangely, TI has a pin-compatible 1.6GSPS part in the same lineup at almost half the price: DAC37J82. This lower spec part would make more sense in the DG800 series, which tops out a 625 MSPS/channel, or 1.25GSPS combined.

I wouldn't be surprised if later DG800Pro builds started coming with the cheaper, lower sample rate variant DAC. Seems like Rigol is leaving money on the table by putting the faster DAC in the slower model when a cheaper variant is available.

[tszaboo]

I'm surprised the DG800Pro series contains the hardware for the higher sample rates of the DG900Pro series.

The teardown ( https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-new-dg822pro-teardown ) shows a TI DAC38J82, which is a 2.5GSPS dual channel DAC (1.25GSPS per channel).

Strangely, TI has a pin-compatible 1.6GSPS part in the same lineup at almost half the price: DAC37J82. This lower spec part would make more sense in the DG800 series, which tops out a 625 MSPS/channel, or 1.25GSPS combined.

I wouldn't be surprised if later DG800Pro builds started coming with the cheaper, lower sample rate variant DAC. Seems like Rigol is leaving money on the table by putting the faster DAC in the slower model when a cheaper variant is available.

Maybe it does. These lower specced parts are sometimes the same die, that doesn't meet the specifications, but you can unlock the extra speed or bits if you use the same code.

[thm_w]

Maybe it does. These lower specced parts are sometimes the same die, that doesn't meet the specifications, but you can unlock the extra speed or bits if you use the same code.

I get what you are saying but how is that a "maybe", the teardown photo clearly shows the part number as being DAC38J82I. If it were a DAC37 it would be marked DAC37.
https://www.ti.com/product/DAC38J82 $68/ea

[DaneLaw]

Any way to validate if the DG821PRO are able to obtain the full sample rate of the DG900PRO series.
Which on paper can muster 1.25GSa/s - 16bits - 200MHz -32Mpts.

A DG922PRO (32M) is here in Europe a tad under 1900 USD (incl. 25% EUVAT) if you can land those specs with the entry [DG821PRO] at a fraction of the price, and if the performance is linear, that would elevate the demand quite a bit.
Not least in the US where the prices seem a tad lower. https://www.saelig.com/product/dg821-pro.htm
At the end of the day, a modern sig-gen with "1.25GSa/s - 16bits - 200MHz -32Mpts" at fx 399$ certainly doesn't hang on the trees 

The big 7" touchscreen (1024x600) on these modern signal generators that nowadays are packed with settings & features, is a very welcome addition, as it can get quite cumbersome on a small display like fx Rigol's current DG1000 series, which Rigol is still selling' that out of the gate are higher priced, but also quite telling about the extensive jump that has occurred on the fundamentals.
DG1022A (700€) - 100Msa/s - 14bits - 25Mhz - 4K.  https://rigolshop.eu/function-generator-dg1022.html

DG900PRO datasheet
https://static.eleshop.nl/mage/media/downloads/DG900Pro_DataSheet_EN.pdf
Manual
https://static.eleshop.nl/mage/media/downloads/DG900Pro_UserGuide_EN.pdf

Miscellaneous DG821PRO screendumps from December/January https://tinyurl.com/4ddye75e *old fw it came with.

Of the DG821PRO 3x USB sockets. (1x USB-A _ 1x USB-B  1X USB-C) it's the USB-B in the back that supports TMC (Test & Measurement Class]
while the 1xUSB-A in the front can act as a host for fx dongles etc... at least the impression I get from the manual, but I haven't tried it, only a wireless mouse so far, and that part worked great.
I haven't checked if the USB-C (main power) also can tolerate data, alongside power with a Power Delivery/PD passthrough dongle.

[Construct]

Any way to validate if the DG821PRO are able to obtain the full sample rate of the DG900PRO series.
Which on paper can muster 1.25GSa/s - 16bits - 200MHz -32Mpts.

Both DG800Pro and DG900Pro specify the maximum sequence data rate as 312.5 MSa/s.

The TI DAC part has a maximum input data rate of only 1.23 GSa/s, so technically it can't (shouldn't) be used with a full 1.25 GSa/s input anyway.

I suspect they're using the interpolation feature of the DAC to arrive at the advertised sample rate.

[TurboTom]

It's a pity that Rigol didn't use the opportunity when designing the DG XXX Pro series to eliminate the shortcoming of CH2 to be disabled whenever the frequency counter function is active (as the manual states) -- this "feature" was also present on the "non-Pro" models. Except for the higher frequency capabilities, the bigger screen and the "funny" fonts, this new model appears to provide little (technical) improvements over the older specimen...

Whatsoever, if the "uphack" is and stays possible, the entry level "Pro" model probably isn't a bad choice, provided Rigol won't "disimprove" their firmware too much... 

[DaneLaw]

It's a pity that Rigol didn't use the opportunity when designing the DG XXX Pro series to eliminate the shortcoming of CH2 to be disabled whenever the frequency counter function is active (as the manual states) -- this "feature" was also present on the "non-Pro" models. Except for the higher frequency capabilities, the bigger screen and the "funny" fonts, this new model appears to provide little (technical) improvements over the older specimen...

Whatsoever, if the "uphack" is and stays possible, the entry level "Pro" model probably isn't a bad choice, provided Rigol won't "disimprove" their firmware too much... 

What exactly are you looking for, that you feel are lacking on this 16-bit entry PRO series?

DG811, wasn't it 10Mhz sine, 5MHz square, 200kHz Ramp, 5MHz pulse, 5MHz harm and amplitude 1-2.5 vpp, seq 2K to 30MSa' out of the box (125Msa).
That's all quite a bit higher with 25MHz sine and 20MHz square, 1MHz Ramp(5x), 10MHz Pulse, 10MHz harm and 1mV- 10Vpp amplitude (20vpp HighZ) seq 1μSa to 312.5 MSa...
it's pretty much all around the basic specs got quite a hump up on DG821PRO vs DG811, at least as far as I can tell.

Alongside a modern 7" touchscreen, num-dial, and also "mobility" so your not locked down to an AC socket, which is a feature that I value a lot.
I don't recall how many harmonics orders and sequences you could stack on DG811 out of the box.? but on DG821 I recall its 20 harm and 64 seq.
Also looks to be quite a difference in square rise-time that claims around 9ns on DG811 & co and 3ns on DG821.
I'm curious what else one could expect on an entry signal gen in this price bracket, that you feel are missing, - as all the fundamentals got elevated quite a bit.? 

// Seems its 8 harmonics on DG811.

[TurboTom]

I'ld just expect that when buying a state-of-the-art 2-channel AWG with an additional frequency counter function, to be able to use the two AWG channels while the counter is activated. What I don't expect is that one of the AWG channels drops out of operation when I enable the frequency counter.

See here, "Tip" on pg. 79

[gbix]

I'ld just expect that when buying a state-of-the-art 2-channel AWG with an additional frequency counter function, to be able to use the two AWG channels while the counter is activated. What I don't expect is that one of the AWG channels drops out of operation when I enable the frequency counter.

after activation counter the 2nd channel is go off

[DaneLaw]

I'ld just expect that when buying a state-of-the-art 2-channel AWG with an additional frequency counter function, to be able to use the two AWG channels while the counter is activated. What I don't expect is that one of the AWG channels drops out of operation when I enable the frequency counter.

See here, "Tip" on pg. 79

I get that, but ain't that the norm on Rigols UI, also recall that was the case on the more expensive & older models, that it limited ch2 when activating the counter?.. if it's critical for you, to have a counter and also 2 channels.
I would look at a dedicated freq-counter..the counter seems more like an afterthought in these entry signal gens, and far from the best or you can hope that Rigol optimize their UI. (but don't hold your breath, its Rigol)

But as you can compare, there are upgrades across the plate on the fundamentals in DG821PRO (1ch) vs DG811 (1ch).. the jump is quite significant out of the box but you need to dig down into the datasheet and compare.

[DaneLaw]

A compare DHO814 & DG822PRO cirquit board.

[csuhi17]

I'ld just expect that when buying a state-of-the-art 2-channel AWG with an additional frequency counter function, to be able to use the two AWG channels while the counter is activated. What I don't expect is that one of the AWG channels drops out of operation when I enable the frequency counter.

See here, "Tip" on pg. 79

The simplest solution would be to buy 2 DG811Pro and upgrade them to the DG922Pro level.

Because then it has a 2x7" display and 4CH 200Mhz AWG or 3CH AWG + 1CH counter or 2CH AWG + 2CH counter.

I don't think anyone will be able to buy such a set for ~800 USD...

If I might be wrong and there is such a 4-channel 200MHz version from another manufacturer, I would be happy to look at it.
Of course, for a price of ~800 USD.

[TurboTom]

I've been just putting this issue up since I wanted to point out a missed opportunity by Rigol (among many others...). I.e. first deliver a "finished" firmware for the "non-Pro" versions  . If I need a decent frequency counter, I use one of my hp 53310A MDAs. None of the AWG-integrated counters stands a chance against these "dinosaurs"!

[csuhi17]

I understand, but for such little money, don't expect more, I think there is no match for the price-value ratio, or at least I haven't found one.
If you really need the amount of channels mentioned above, there is a very good method for it.

It is possible that this is not a software limitation.
If it only costs that much because of the limitation, then I'm happy with it. Personally, I rarely use the counter.
If I look at its specification and compare it with other AWG
A 1000 USD one with a similar base, but the AWG part is max 120MHz, and the counter only measures up to 200MHz. And less memory.

This includes up to 200MHz AWG and up to 1GHz Counter.
I can't say which AWG has a clearer signal.
And Rigol certainly has bugs.

I've been just putting this issue up since I wanted to point out a missed opportunity by Rigol (among many others...). I.e. first deliver a "finished" firmware for the "non-Pro" versions  . If I need a decent frequency counter, I use one of my hp 53310A MDAs. None of the AWG-integrated counters stands a chance against these "dinosaurs"!

Ah, it was a shame to read the user manual hp 53310A MDA. My head hurt.
I don't think that the simple counter function is worth comparing with a full-fledged "Modulation Domain Analyzer".
I didn't understand half of what I read in the manual.
It has many more features.

Unfortunately, if it is no longer produced, you cannot get it.
If someone has one, I don't think they will sell it if they can't find a better one, or if they're not forced to. Or he doesn't need it anymore.

[csuhi17]

I have already found an annoying bug.
I turn on the MOD/SUM function on channel 1.
It can be selected at the bottom in the Waveform drop-down tab.
Sine, Square, Ramp, Noise, Arb, CH2.
Arb in the manual is "Arb - standard arbitrary waveform other than DC"
If I understand correctly, I should be able to choose the one I want to see on the basic wave from the 148 built-in waves.
There is no menu item to set it up.

If I select the other channel "CH2", I can see the set wave.
If I want to change CH2 to Arb, it says:
"The waveform disallows overlay to another channel, and the other channel overlay waveform has been changed".
It sets CH2 to what I selected, but changes CH1's mod/waveform to something else. often to Sine.

However, if I set CH2 first and then change CH1's mod/Waveform to CH2, it accepts it.
But after that, no matter how many times I want to set the CH2 to another Arb, it keeps dropping it. Leave only when selecting basic waves.

[tszaboo]

A compare DHO814 & DG822PRO cirquit board.

They seem to be using the same screws.

[Njk]

It seems arbitrary waveforms are no longer supported. Only those built-in Arbs. Also, the number for jitter looks copy-pasted from the previous series. DG8/9/2k has 250 Mhz DDS clock and 200 ps rms jitter (whatever this means). The Pro uses 1.25 GHz clock but the jitter figure remains the same. Anyway the copy-past method is safe because the number can't be worse with higher clock speed. For the first time, the accuracy of the frequency counter is documented.

[DaneLaw]

A compare DHO814 & DG822PRO cirquit board.

They seem to be using the same screws.

Your sharp 
its the same board template.. so a lot of rehash of the secondary components/sockets DHO800/900, DG800/900PRO, DM858/E.
Quite populated these signal gens and not much seems to be unpopulated (if any) but on paper, the DG800PRO allows only up to 8M (optional) and 2M native while DG900PRO its 32M optional and 16M native..
A board picture of the DG900 would be helpful to see if any of the chip differs.

[csuhi17]

A compare DHO814 & DG822PRO cirquit board.

Sorry, I don't have a better camera, I only have a microscope, but I should have take a couple of 100 pictures with it.
DG912Pro and DM858.






The only difference I found.
Under the add-on card.
On the DG822Pro and DM858
SEC 319 BYMA K4B4G0846E
On the DG912Pro
SEC 322 BYMA K4B4G0846E

[DaneLaw]

A compare DHO814 & DG822PRO cirquit board.

Sorry, I don't have a better camera, I only have a microscope, but I should have take a couple of 100 pictures with it.
DG912Pro and DM858.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)


The only difference I found.
Under the add-on card.
On the DG822Pro and DM858
SEC 319 BYMA K4B4G0846E
On the DG912Pro
SEC 322 BYMA K4B4G0846E

Looks good csushi17  thanks for sharing.. 
You took the plunge on both DG912PRO & DM858..?

Whats your impression sofar? 
Took a web-look at the different chip-markings your posted (as different) but my web-kungfu is weak sauce, so nothing popped up-

[csuhi17]

Looks good csushi17  thanks for sharing.. 
You took the plunge on both DG912PRO & DM858..?

Whats your impression sofar? 
Took a web-look at the different chip-markings your posted (as different) but my web-kungfu is weak sauce, so nothing popped up-

I think it could be.
https://semiconductor.samsung.com/dram/ddr/ddr3/k4b4g0846e-byk0/
I don't know what SEC 322 ls SEC 319 can mean.


Yes.
I haven't tested them much yet.
This is my first serious instrument group in this category.
Before that, I used FY6800 and simple multimeters, Owon's 20000 count DMM.

The display is large and clearly visible and readable. Due to the flat design, it fits more easily on the table, and if necessary, I can take it with me because of the USB-C.
But it should be noted that this is much more vulnerable than a manual instrument.

The DM858 does not contain a fan and is quite quiet.
However, the back panel is the same as the DHO900, so dust can fall through the holes, only a thin plastic covering sheet was added.

I didn't notice a big difference in its accuracy, after being cold and warming up for several hours.
I have only used it to measure voltages so far.
I somehow managed to freeze it once, I don't remember what I did.

The flat design has two disadvantages, one is that you can easily lean forward if you pull the measuring cable, and the other is that it is difficult to plug it in, so it requires two hands.

You can see what it can do in the description, and as far as I can tell, it does.

The main reason for my purchase is its flat design, large display, and the hope that I can make loop recordings with it.
I mean when I record the change in voltage in smaller groups of, for example, 500k points for several days with the highest possible accuracy at 125 Read/s.
Unfortunately, this function is not included.
There is some kind of "Record" for the Histogram in the description, but it doesn't appear for me. It is possible that it is not yet complete and this function has been removed from it.
I hope Rigol will improve on it.

I can tell you after a short search that this is a very basic DMM in its class.
Someone wrote earlier that the DMM chip in it is not the best.
TruRMS is 8kHz and its accuracy in the measurement ranges is poor even at lower frequencies.


The DG912Pro has made a positive impression so far.
You can see his abilities in his manual.

There is no easy way to load your own wave yet, one forum member described the currently usable method, but it is quite fiddly and incomplete, if I remember correctly it cannot be parameterized.

I couldn't measure how accurate the 5,000,000,003 kHz 1,000.01V sine wave is, I don't have the right instrument.

It is easy to use, I managed it even after reading the manual.

However, now that it turned out that the 800pro and 900pro are the same inside, I'm a little saddened, but I'm also happy at the same time.
So maybe if someone buys the cheaper version and hacks it, they will be fine with it.

What bothers me is that the program is not on it like it is on the DHO800/900 memory card, so I can't make a backup of it.

For me, these two will completely cover my interests if I get the two things I'm missing.

If anyone has any questions or requests, I will be happy to answer them and test them.

Unexpectedly, I can't say anything else about the two devices.


+Its fan is horrible.

[tszaboo]

A compare DHO814 & DG822PRO cirquit board.

They seem to be using the same screws.

Your sharp 
its the same board template.. so a lot of rehash of the secondary components/sockets DHO800/900, DG800/900PRO, DM858/E.
Quite populated these signal gens and not much seems to be unpopulated (if any) but on paper, the DG800PRO allows only up to 8M (optional) and 2M native while DG900PRO its 32M optional and 16M native..
A board picture of the DG900 would be helpful to see if any of the chip differs.

I mean there is nothing shared between these two designs. Not the main CPU, not the power supply. It's clearly done by two different teams, one using silkscreen the other doesn't. Somehow the oscilloscope doesn't have any electrolytic capacitors as well.

A compare DHO814 & DG822PRO cirquit board.

Sorry, I don't have a better camera, I only have a microscope, but I should have take a couple of 100 pictures with it.
DG912Pro and DM858.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)


The only difference I found.
Under the add-on card.
On the DG822Pro and DM858
SEC 319 BYMA K4B4G0846E
On the DG912Pro
SEC 322 BYMA K4B4G0846E

I actually wonder what's below the metal shield. It seems small, Rigol doesn't do DMM chipsets so it will be someone else's chip there.

[gbix]

However, now that it turned out that the 800pro and 900pro are the same inside, I'm a little saddened, but I'm also happy at the same time.
So maybe if someone buys the cheaper version and hacks it, they will be fine with it.

i dont find differences after converting 800pro to 900pro from original 900pro
but i cant check signal accuracy now

[DaneLaw]

A compare DHO814 & DG822PRO cirquit board.

They seem to be using the same screws.

Your sharp 
its the same board template.. so a lot of rehash of the secondary components/sockets DHO800/900, DG800/900PRO, DM858/E.
Quite populated these signal gens and not much seems to be unpopulated (if any) but on paper, the DG800PRO allows only up to 8M (optional) and 2M native while DG900PRO its 32M optional and 16M native..
A board picture of the DG900 would be helpful to see if any of the chip differs.

I mean there is nothing shared between these two designs. Not the main CPU, not the power supply. It's clearly done by two different teams, one using silkscreen the other doesn't. Somehow the oscilloscope doesn't have any electrolytic capacitors as well.

Sure, nobody said otherwise. its pretty clear from the compare-pictures what specific parts differs & which are identical across DHOxxx, DGxxxPRO, and DMxxx, - as you can see there are obviously way more than just the screws that cycle across these models.. the designers are using the same template to fit with the form factor, so secondary components, sockets, etc. will align.
At the end of the day, its widely different products, that are built around the same form factor but it shouldn't really be up for debate what parts differ,, when its highlighted on top of each other, and you can just look.

[DaneLaw]

....
+Its fan is horrible.

Yep, same here.. I think its the same as in the DHOxxx series scope. and it's a hysteric little whiny temp-regulated fan that will cycle up & down with minute differences, that's far from pleasant.
Im supprised to hear that there doesn't look to be any hardware differences between DG800PRO and DG900PRO, if so that should also allow 32M for the DG800PRO series, even though its only optional to 8M.

But its pleasant news that there doesn't look to be any noticeable hardware difference, and what I speculated in' when I took the plunge in November (black Friday) for a DG821PRO in China, in the hope that I down the line would be able to hack it, as we have seen with the latter gen.
as 1.25Gsa - 16bits - 200MHz - 32M (DG922PRO) is nothing to sneeze at, not least for the MSRP prices they are going for in the Far East... hopefully it is linear across the liberated range..

I also got one of these FeelElec signal gens for the last handful of years (FY6900) its been okay (with the price in mind) but its extremely cumbersome to adjust settings on.. that aspect is a joy on these Rigol PRO signal gens.. the big touch screen makes it way more comfortable to dig down into all the features a modern waveform generator can deliver.

I reckon the bootup time on your DM858 are the same as your DG900PRO..looks to be around 63 fo 66 sec on DM858E (from YT vid) so likely no difference on the more premium DM858.

[zrq]

Thanks for posting, now I'm seriously considering getting a DG821Pro instead of the SDG2042X (to be hacked into SDG2122X). But the boot time seems to be long enough to be annoying.

[csuhi17]

Naturally.
These three musketeers are just that kind.
I don't mind the 1-minute switch-on time, I let it warm up for a couple of 10 minutes. If I start doing something and use it several times, I don't turn it on and off...

This is also true for the DM858.
If I need to measure something quickly, my Owon HDS scope meter is there for that.
Or, according to my new habit, I use the Multimeter part of the Owon SPM, at my desk. 

I'm not going to throw away my Fy6800 either, it's more than adequate, if I need a more accurate and complex waveform, I'll turn on Rigol and while I wait, I'll occupy myself with something until then.

I can never understand why anyone would be bothered by the 1 minute power-on time with these devices. The minimum heating time is also written on more serious instruments.
Or does it have no practical use, and I just operated my devices unnecessarily?

[csuhi17]

I actually wonder what's below the metal shield. It seems small, Rigol doesn't do DMM chipsets so it will be someone else's chip there.

There you go.
At first I thought it was soldered on, but luckily it wasn't. 

[shapirus]

I wonder where the operating system is stored. What's under that secondary board that's installed in what looks similar to a laptop memory module slot?

[TurboTom]

Thanks for posting, now I'm seriously considering getting a DG821Pro instead of the SDG2042X (to be hacked into SDG2122X). But the boot time seems to be long enough to be annoying.

I'm pretty sure the user interface of the DG800/900 Pro is much more comfortable to use than the SDG2000X counterpart. The decent screen size with touch screen functionality ironed in right from the start is a big plus in contrary to the SDG2kX /6kX instruments that had their firmware origin in the SDG1k series w/o touch screen support...

But one thing that would really put me off getting Rigol's "Pro" series AWG is the use of a hybrid module as the channel output amps. They may be designed pretty well and beefy but there's always a hatch that "Murphy" slips through and the pamp may be damaged by mishaps... If the "standard" TI THS3091 / 3095 series current-feedback OPAMPs are used as drivers, there's at least a chance of a DIY hardware repair (calibation/adjustment to meet specs again may be a different story), but Rigol's output driver modules will probably be and stay pretty much unobtainium. It's even questionable if Rigol themselves will replace individual chips/hybrids instead of rather replacing the whole mainboard and swapping the SIMM style CPU module. If this would be substantially less expensive than the purchase of a new DG821Pro has yet to be found out.

One more thought on the DG800 -> DG900 series upgrade: With the "non-Pro-versions" the situation was pretty similar -- that is, the hardware is identical. Yet, we had to find out that the calibration isn't done to the full DG900 specs which results in an output level drop of ~2dB between 70 and 100MHz. Nevertheless, the liberated instrument is pretty well usable, but don't expect the situation to be much different with the "Pro" series. Rather keep your expectations low than getting disappointed afterwards...

Good luck! 

[zrq]

I would rather treat it as a consumer electronic product as it cost a fraction of an iPhone. If I blown up the front end by reverse power, then I buy a new one.
Also considering how fast the digital electronics are advancing today, hopefully by that time I can get one with even better specs. I was dreaming for but couldn't afford a second-hand Agilent 33250A when I was in high school, but today, meh...

Now the question is should I get a DG800Pro for hacking or a SDG2000X. I have the equipment to calibrate the frequency response if necessary. SDG2000X is a bit old now, I don't know if Siglent is going to release a newer model.

[thm_w]

I wonder where the operating system is stored. What's under that secondary board that's installed in what looks similar to a laptop memory module slot?

Everything is on that module, A40i-h SOM. RAM, CPU, flash. Similar to this sort of board: https://www.armdesigner.com/CM-A40i/
I don't know whats under though.

edit: DG821 pro is $333 - $40 coupon = $293 USD, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006749594531.html
edit: It did show up via UPS.

[gbix]

i think DG800Pro as DG900Pro and calibrate it

[PELL]

Thanks @csuhi17 for teardown DM858

I am pretty sure the chip is HY3131 or HY3130, which is not good to see a handheld chip in a "Desktop Grade" product.

[PELL]

But one thing that would really put me off getting Rigol's "Pro" series AWG is the use of a hybrid module as the channel output amps. They may be designed pretty well and beefy but there's always a hatch that "Murphy" slips through and the pamp may be damaged by mishaps...

Yes, that is something definitely considerable when using it.

When you output at a very low amplitude, the wave comes directly from the DAC.

From what I can tell now, the "Custom ASIC" actually includes two dies, and you can see it in my teardown photo,  one is their own and the other one is some off-the-shell part.

[TurboTom]

The high-speed DACs used in these AWGs usually have differential current outputs, thus keeping voltage swing as small as possible. This signal is fed through the reconstruction filter and then to a trans-impedance amplifier to turn it into a single-ended voltage signal. This voltage signal is resistively added to an offset signal from an auxiliary DAC, amplified by a large output swing OPAMP. The individual resistors of this resistive adder are chosen to provide an impedance of 50 Ohms. As you mentioned, this signal is used directly or routed through a set of attenuators for low-level outputs. If a higher output level (or offset) is required, this whole signal is amplified typically by a THS3091 high-speed current feedback opamp. In most designs, there are three or four attenuator stages and the amplifier available to be routed via relays into the signal path.

Hence, a whole bunch of calibration constants, covering all amp/attenuator configuration combinations at several frequency points and offset conditions are required to fully tame such a complex contraption. Depending on the operational mode (i.e. amplitude or frequency sweeps, during which no attenuator switching is acceptable), even further calibraion points may be required. Fact is that on this forum, the calbration adjustment procedure for the legacy DG800/900 has not (yet) been figured out completely. Siglent's AWGs require some Python scripts to perform adjustments and I haven't seen any copies of those anywhere "in the wild". So a complete DIY adjustment looks pretty impossible, and I'ld assume it will be the same with the DG800/900 Pro AWGs.

It's well possible that, provided the right folks have a look into this problem, a solution can be found. But that will be a hell lot of work, and success cannot be taken for sure. Sorry for my doubtful attitude in this case, but as we've got a saying "A pessimist is an optimist with experience..." 

Cheers 

[gbix]

All DG800pro don't have calibration on high freq, but all DG900pro have full calibration
Commands for calibration I found and soon I documents it.
High freq table have 71 points to calibrate at double64 precision
Low freq is below 200khz and also have 78 points

[csuhi17]

I took out the DM858 card, you have to be careful, because there are small parts next to the catch plate, they are easy to break off.

[gbix]

I would rather treat it as a consumer electronic product as it cost a fraction of an iPhone. If I blown up the front end by reverse power, then I buy a new one.
Also considering how fast the digital electronics are advancing today, hopefully by that time I can get one with even better specs. I was dreaming for but couldn't afford a second-hand Agilent 33250A when I was in high school, but today, meh...

Now the question is should I get a DG800Pro for hacking or a SDG2000X. I have the equipment to calibrate the frequency response if necessary. SDG2000X is a bit old now, I don't know if Siglent is going to release a newer model.

What equipment do you have for calibration or what is enough to calibrate it?

[zrq]

I was thinking if what I need is amplitude calibration at higher frequencies, I have access to leveled spectrum analyzers and power meters.

[jackcheng]

last news for DG821pro
device can't produce frq above 200mhz ;(
but can do modulation (am and fm modulation) up to 200mhz

Hi qbix,

Would you willing to share how you do this? Or just some tips?

[gbix]

Would you willing to share how you do this? Or just some tips?

becouse activations not fully documented now/not tested, you can send me config files from /rigol/data folder to fix configuration

i soon will make new thread with info about activation and calibration dg800pro/900pro

[jackcheng]

Would you willing to share how you do this? Or just some tips?

becouse activations not fully documented now/not tested, you can send me config files from /rigol/data folder to fix configuration

i soon will make new thread with info about activation and calibration dg800pro/900pro

Can't wait for your instruction
By the way I found there is a `setup.stp` file under the /rigol/data/ folder. Is it the key file which need to modify for this magic?

[thm_w]

What is the SSH password? The usual root:Rigol001/Rigol201 etc doesn't work.

- The fan on this thing is horrific as mentioned, it starts off really slow for a few minutes (5V), then ramps way up (13V). 13V is even overdriving it as it is a 12V rated fan. Whoever designed that fan/heatsink should be slapped. Probably some intern. 70 or 80mm fan will have to go in.
- The font is not great, but nowhere near as bad as the DP900 font. Still regular font would be better, without the graininess.

edit: Code name is Dolphin Fish lol

                            Dolphinfish Business is Starting... \n",
         "/home/RIGOLTECH/sn03949/projects/dolphinfish_service/src/cpp/DolphinfishMain.cpp",

[shapirus]

- The fan on this thing is horrific as mentioned, it starts off really slow for a few minutes (5V), then ramps way up (13V). 13V is even overdriving it as it is a 12V rated fan. Whoever designed that fan/heatsink should be slapped. Probably some intern. 70 or 80mm fan will have to go in.

I thought it couldn't get worse that the DHO800/DHO900's fan. I was wrong, it can! It is already terrible at 8V, scary to imagine what it is like at 13V. And having variable speed on it doesn't make it any better.

I suggest checking the three DHO[8,9]00 threads (hacking, unboxing/teardown, and there was one more that I can't recall now): search by "fan" in them. There was a long discussion, and also a few solutions to the problem were described/demonstrated: from installing an external 120mm fan to lowering the speed of the stock fan to get an acceptable noise level while, as was claimed in that particular case, keeping the temperature at a reasonable level.

What is the power consumption level btw? I mean whole device, not just the fan -- I wonder if there's a real reason to run the fan at 13V. Does it draw more than the scope (35W IIRC)?

[csuhi17]

What is the power consumption level btw? I mean whole device, not just the fan -- I wonder if there's a real reason to run the fan at 13V. Does it draw more than the scope (35W IIRC)?

DG914ro
37W what i measured maximum.

When I switch between the counter and the second channel, the signal coming out of the first channel is interrupted during the switch.

[DaneLaw]

What is the SSH password? The usual root:Rigol001/Rigol201 etc doesn't work.

- The fan on this thing is horrific as mentioned, it starts off really slow for a few minutes (5V), then ramps way up (13V). 13V is even overdriving it as it is a 12V rated fan. Whoever designed that fan/heatsink should be slapped. Probably some intern. 70 or 80mm fan will have to go in.
- The font is not great, but nowhere near as bad as the DP900 font. Still regular font would be better, without the graininess.

edit: Code name is Dolphin Fish lol

                            Dolphinfish Business is Starting... \n",
         "/home/RIGOLTECH/sn03949/projects/dolphinfish_service/src/cpp/DolphinfishMain.cpp",

What model do you have?

[thm_w]

I thought it couldn't get worse that the DHO800/DHO900's fan. I was wrong, it can! It is already terrible at 8V, scary to imagine what it is like at 13V. And having variable speed on it doesn't make it any better.

Its worse with the variable speed if anything, startles you. Don't know if circuit is even working as intended, seems to hold the heatsink steady at ~38C.

I suggest checking the three DHO[8,9]00 threads (hacking, unboxing/teardown, and there was one more that I can't recall now): search by "fan" in them. There was a long discussion, and also a few solutions to the problem were described/demonstrated: from installing an external 120mm fan to lowering the speed of the stock fan to get an acceptable noise level while, as was claimed in that particular case, keeping the temperature at a reasonable level.

Thanks, I'll try a simple 80mm fan design to start off with. With a moderate 1.2W 80mm fan pointed toward the heatsink I get ~35C. I'll look around for a 24V 90mm fan and use that if I can.

What model do you have?

DG821 Pro from aliexpress link above.
- SN: DG8P255200045 (CAL says 2023-11-11 but software dates are 12-2023)
- Analog HW version 1
- Digital HW version 3

edit: added 80, 90, 92mm fan cover (see attached zip file)

[josfemova]

FYI, 800 Pro Series and 900 Pro series seem to have landed in tequipment.

https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DG821-Pro/Function-Generator/
https://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DG902-Pro/Function-Generator/

[josfemova]

Now the question is should I get a DG800Pro for hacking or a SDG2000X. I have the equipment to calibrate the frequency response if necessary. SDG2000X is a bit old now, I don't know if Siglent is going to release a newer model.

I'm on the same boat but without calibration equipment. I would go for the Siglent one if it wasn't for the web control in the DG800/900 pro series which comes in handy for didactic purposes.

If recording the screen was not in consideration for me, I think I would be inclined to go with the Siglent

[tautech]

Now the question is should I get a DG800Pro for hacking or a SDG2000X. I have the equipment to calibrate the frequency response if necessary. SDG2000X is a bit old now, I don't know if Siglent is going to release a newer model.

I'm on the same boat but without calibration equipment. I would go for the Siglent one if it wasn't for the web control in the DG800/900 pro series which comes in handy for didactic purposes.

If recording the screen was not in consideration for me, I think I would be inclined to go with the Siglent

https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sdg-remote-scpi-command-to-request-a-screen-image/

[josfemova]

If recording the screen was not in consideration for me, I think I would be inclined to go with the Siglent
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/sdg-remote-scpi-command-to-request-a-screen-image/

Ok that makes my decision harder now haha. I still think that being able to show/control the scope via the web interface is better constantly fetching the scope screen without showing the buttons I'm touching, but I guess for my use case not showing the buttons is not that much of an issue

[Njk]

I wish they to stop designing new things and to dedicate the rest of their life to fixing the existing designs. By now, the nomenclature is very wide so it's a big opportunity. And that'll be a real mission for Rigol