Author Topic: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions  (Read 4745 times)

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Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2019, 08:33:46 pm »
I´ve asked them (rigol service) directly, if my scope are with the mods equal to those with 01.01 and they answered "yes".
But still the "old" hardware state will be shown.
I think, they modify all the scopes which were already produced(and not shipped to the sellers), simultaneously totally new produced doesn´t need the mods anymore and this will be marked by the 01.01 state.
It means your scope shows as HW 01.00?
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2019, 08:57:47 pm »
Yes and I have a possible explanation why the number doesn´t change.
For example the reduced fan noise : They must have the mod done on the pcb, because the fan is still the same as before (Sunon, 2-wire).
Same for the display.
Open it, doing whatever they must do for the mods - But:
Wherever the hardware version number is stored in, I couldn´t imagine that they will change it by re-programming/exchanging the affected parts.
Just modify/exchange the hardware that will be need.

Edit:

Therefore I asked rigol for exchange the delivery note - It´s title is "Repair" and this is 1) not correct, 2) irritating.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 09:03:29 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2019, 09:34:32 pm »
Yes and I have a possible explanation why the number doesn´t change.
For example the reduced fan noise : They must have the mod done on the pcb, because the fan is still the same as before (Sunon, 2-wire).
Same for the display.
Open it, doing whatever they must do for the mods - But:
Wherever the hardware version number is stored in, I couldn´t imagine that they will change it by re-programming/exchanging the affected parts.
Just modify/exchange the hardware that will be need.

How do we know the fan was not defective and was replaced though.
I don't recall seeing anyone else complain about fan noise. From what I remember this fan is quieter than my DS2000. But don't have my dB meter on hand right now to give you a number.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2019, 09:43:55 pm »
Quote
I don't recall seeing anyone else complain about fan noise

This is/was a common thing, rigol once confirmed to me.
 
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Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2019, 10:34:11 pm »
Hi

Ok, so my brand new 5074 showed up today. Indeed ordered it yesterday and it arrived today. That's the good news .... now for the rest of the news.

It left the factory in February. So much for "everything is less than 30 days old".

Fan noise? What fan noise? I would not in any way call this a noisy fan. I've had lots of gear that has more fan noise. Most of my PC's have more fan noise than this scope.

Dim screen? Seems ok to me. It certainly is a lot brighter than some of what I already have. Is it so bright I'm looking for the knob to turn it down? Not quite yet.

No big surprise on the magic numbers:

Hardware 1.00.000
Firmware 00.01.01.04.04
Build 2019-02-20 16:27:49

Calibrated 2019/2/17
Serial number on the cal sheet matches serial number on the "about" page on the scope.

Could it have gone through some sort of process after it left the factory? Sure it could. If so, that process left no trace .....

I'm happy with what I have, but a bit surprised by the "age" of the device after what I was told yesterday.

Bob
 
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Offline typoknig

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2019, 05:37:42 am »
Done it, with no Problems:



I think in one of your previous posts (might have been someone else) said that Rigol was going to be releasing new firmware in June that would address the trigger overshoot issue and some other problems. Have you heard any information about that?  We are running out of June :)

A firmware update would be a lot more likely to prevent entrepreneurial unlocks, so I've been holding off on purchasing this unit until existing unlock methods have been proven to work with the yet-to-be-released firmware.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2019, 08:14:42 am »
Hi,

Quote
We are running out of June

First it was "sometime in may", then june, then end of june…
Lot to do I think.  8)

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2019, 12:46:30 pm »
Hi

There may be multiple forms of release. Maybe it goes to the production floor 30 days prior to the release to the field.

Bob
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2019, 07:42:39 pm »
Therefore I asked rigol for exchange the delivery note - It´s title is "Repair" and this is 1) not correct, 2) irritating.

Today I got the changed delivery note, now it´s called modification/upgrade....
And they noticed the actual HW - somekind of irritating because the HW of my modified scope is 00.01.02, that´s what they written in the delivery note.
I´ll ask them, if this is correct.


Online Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2019, 06:54:30 pm »
I think in one of your previous posts (might have been someone else) said that Rigol was going to be releasing new firmware in June that would address the trigger overshoot issue and some other problems. Have you heard any information about that?  We are running out of June :)

First : I´ve asked them a few days before and they told me, that they want finishing the launching of the MSO8 series first ( and this should happen soon).
But and second:

beta-firmware by request ?

Online NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2019, 05:45:49 pm »
I think Rigol could have made it simpler for everyone if they can be more transparent about the hardware changes.  As there are original 1.00.00, modified 1.00.00 from stock, updated 1.00.00 via service, and 1.01.00.  You just don’t know what the changes are and what you have. 

Perhaps they view the hardware version is none of our concern, but being more transparent could also make future repair and services much easier for them and for us.  For all the 1.00.00 owners, there is no way to tell whether we have the brightened screen, or the quieter fan.  Hate to go through shipping and send it back just to find out that no improvement is required.

 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2019, 05:50:50 pm »
Hi

So here's a very basic question:

We all *assume* that hacking the firmware voids the warranty. Has Rigol actually said that it does or refused service because somebody hacked a scope?

We all *assume* popping the beast open voids the warranty. Again, anything from Rigol that says this is the case?

I'm in no way trying to suggest that I know the answer to either question. I have seen examples in the past (with other outfits) where actual mods to the instrument didn't void the warranty. ( = Tektronix on mods to bring out a feed from one of the channels).

Bob
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 05:58:47 pm by uncle_bob »
 

Online texaspyro

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2019, 05:56:02 pm »
At least in the USA,  the FTC has declared "warranty void" stickers as illegal (or at least un-enforceable).
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2019, 06:41:23 pm »
I think Rigol could have made it simpler for everyone if they can be more transparent about the hardware changes.  As there are original 1.00.00, modified 1.00.00 from stock, updated 1.00.00 via service, and 1.01.00.  You just don’t know what the changes are and what you have. 

Perhaps they view the hardware version is none of our concern, but being more transparent could also make future repair and services much easier for them and for us.  For all the 1.00.00 owners, there is no way to tell whether we have the brightened screen, or the quieter fan.  Hate to go through shipping and send it back just to find out that no improvement is required.
I think Rigol (at least in the US) keeps the HW versions of each scope in their database.  When I asked about my HW 1.00, they asked me for the serial number and confirmed my unit has the LCD brightness and fan noise fixes already applied.
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2019, 06:49:54 pm »
I think Rigol (at least in the US) keeps the HW versions of each scope in their database.

Since they need to keep also the licensing key, model, etc with them, it shouldn't be too difficult to also store the HW version and other parameters.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2019, 07:00:34 pm »
For all the 1.00.00 owners, there is no way to tell whether we have the brightened screen, or the quieter fan.  Hate to go through shipping and send it back just to find out that no improvement is required.

Believe me, when you actually don´t hear your fan ( or nearly not), you got the actual version - my MSO5 was from 11/2018 and really noisy…. 8)
Not so nice : The unit heats up, more than before - Ask them tomorrow if this is critical for lifetime/accuracy at all.
I hope, before they done the mods, they´ll calculated with this temperature.

Quote
We all *assume* that hacking the firmware voids the warranty. Has Rigol actually said that it does or refused service because somebody hacked a scope?

Don´t know, I did a "downgrade" before sending it to them for the mods.
But maybe this could have no purpose because:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2545293/#msg2545293

They tried to read mine out (but couldn´t ).
By the way, could anyone reproduce it ?



Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2019, 07:25:58 pm »
I think the equipment wouldn't pass a thorough forensic analysis, regarding downgrades/rollbacks.

Nonetheless, doing a full NAND+FRAM restoration (which is possible through software) and a few trail cleaning should make things almost impossible to discover.

But, I don't believe Rigol ever goes to such effort or even developed a tool do that forensic study as it has a practical zero interest in it.

That's a manufacture company, not a CSI lab.

I bet if they don't see nothing on the online reporting  (for those that connect to the net) and if the machine files/licenses looks as stock, they won't raise problems.
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2019, 07:33:54 pm »
Hi

Back in the day .... If you did something that damaged the gear or kept it from doing what it should, Tektronix would not reverse that for free. If whatever you had done left the equipment working OK, then they could care less. While I don't *know* that is Rigol's policy, it seems like a pretty rational approach. It's certainly way easier / cheaper / quicker than getting into all sorts of fights with your customers.

Bob
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2019, 08:47:46 pm »
Quote
If you did something that damaged the gear or kept it from doing what it should, Tektronix would not reverse that for free.

Sounds right to me.
If you done things which cause a defect, it´s your problem and not a case of warranty.
It´s itching in my fingers to do some mods on my MSO5, like other display and other fan...the void sticker could be easily remove without a damage.
Hm-hm.....

Offline kahuna0k

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2019, 02:32:49 am »
Believe me, when you actually don´t hear your fan ( or nearly not), you got the actual version - my MSO5 was from 11/2018 and really noisy…. 8)
Not so nice : The unit heats up, more than before - Ask them tomorrow if this is critical for lifetime/accuracy at all.
I hope, before they done the mods, they´ll calculated with this temperature.

I can hear my MSO5074 bought 3/7/19 HW version 1.0, but my Siglent SDS 1104X-E is much noisier. In fact almost any other bench instrument I have is noisier than the Rigol. When you say "or nearly not" what dB level are we talking about? You know we are talking about measurements here, we want precision! :D
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 02:34:36 am by kahuna0k »
 

Online NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2019, 03:22:41 pm »
TK and tv84, thanks for the info, it is great that they keep track of the update to each scope by serial number, that certainly makes me feel better although it is more work for them.

Martin72, I wonder if the fan is exactly the same, but that they reduced the fan speed to reduce noise in exchange for higher operating temperature.  If so, I wonder if the fan is thermostatically controlled.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2019, 03:48:14 pm »
They told me that no changes was done on the board, some components were added to the fan and the display.
Can this be true….adding components to make a fan silent, I can understand ( resistor in series perhaps).
But adding components to make the display brighter…
For what I can see without opening the case is, that the fan could be the same as before (Sunon, 2-Wire).
Or not...
In fact, they must have done something with the fan, because the wire are normally fixed on the side by a tie wrap - here, they forgot to fixed it again.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 04:00:09 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2019, 03:51:23 pm »
Hi

Did they add some rubber padding to isolate the fan from the rest of the structure? That's a pretty common fix. Previous reports have suggested that the display "fix" involves a couple resistors.

Bob
 

Online Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2019, 04:01:15 pm »
Hi Bob,

The fan is still directly mounted on the plate.

Martin

Online NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2019, 07:16:58 pm »
Could they have added thermistor fan control to keep it at lower rpm during light use?

I know the Papst fan used in my Agilent system power supplies have thermistor in them for variable speed control.  I wonder if Rigol did the same?  The higher temperature you observed definitely points to a lower cfm, if the fan is the same, that means lower rpm.
 


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