Author Topic: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions  (Read 4728 times)

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Offline NoisyBoy

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Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« on: May 27, 2019, 03:11:01 pm »
There has been a number of discussions about the Rigol MSO5000 hardware/firmware changes in the hacking thread, thought I would start a new topic to consolidate these discussions and leave hacking thread to hacking discussions.

To start, I received my unit back in mid March.  It has a late February build date (based on calibration certificate), it has firmware 1.00.000.  I use it in an average lit room, I have to say that the screen brightness is not a serious issue in my case.  It won't compare to a new iPad Pro screen, but it is usable.

Here is what I picked up from various discussions:
* ivonenand received his unit in mid May, hardware has been updated to 1.01.000, there is no publications on exactly what this change entails.
* From rowifi: "Have heard that there is a revised hardware for the MSO5000 to fix the screen brightness.  Just resistor changes apparently. New devices being shipped with this change", and "Scopes at distributors need to go back to Germany to be fixed"
* From Magnum: "Batronix told me today that the display fix was already introduced a couple of months ago. Don't know if that is true."
* From Martin72: "I´ve asked them(if the resistor-fix is true and how to handle it), answer should be given next week."
* There is also a new firmware revision coming, rumored in June, to improve the self-cal, adds new features in power analysis, and various fixes.

I look forward to hearing contributions from all of you, thank you.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 09:39:39 pm »
Hi,

See this one:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2448378/#msg2448378

New MSOs should arrive with low noise fan and brighter display - After consulting rigol.eu service, I´ll send mine in the mid/end of june to them for fixing the noisy fan and probably lighter display.
For free, except shipping costs to them.
New firmware-update is planned for sometime in june.


Offline Magnum

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2019, 08:24:57 pm »
Hello,
received a MSO5074 today. It shows Firmware 00.01.01.04.04 and hardware 01.00.000
Last Selfcal was in March, I assume that was in the factory.

The screen looks ok, IMHO as bright as my DS1054Z. Maybe a bit brighter. Fan is audible, but ok for me.
 

Offline hhappy1

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2019, 11:35:33 pm »
Hi~ sir.

My Rigol arrived in mid-May and Latest selfcalibration on April 28th.
firmware : 01.04.04    ,   hardware : 1.00

There was nothing uncomfortable about fan sound and screen brightness.
Channels 3 and 4 are slightly darker, but similar to ds2000a.

The self calibration was inaccurate, so I asked 'Rigol' and contacted me.
On June 11th, I send the product to RIGOLKorea.

I will ask about fan sound and screen brightness. I will write back how it was modified.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 11:51:19 pm by hhappy1 »
 
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Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2019, 03:22:06 am »
Keep us posted.  It seems like they are in the midst of a transition to version 1.01 hardware, as I have only seen one person reporting in with the new hardware.  Since you have seen how ver 1.00 hardware works, if they upgrade you to 1.01, you would be the first person who can tell us the difference it makes.

The biggest question is whether 1.01 is just a component change with equivalent function as 1.00?  Or does it actually bring improvement to the scope such as lower noise or brighter screen.  If it is the latter, then I would definitely be sending mine in for service.
 

Offline Magnum

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 08:46:48 pm »
i am pretty sure that the one I got (with hardware 1.00) already has the improved display and fan. I have nothing to complain.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 08:59:35 pm »
I'm sure you're happy with it but I suspect it's the same as others.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 09:21:03 pm »
I´ll send mine in this week to rigol for modification what fan and screen-brightness concerns….
It wouldn´t be unsurprised if these mods were already done in newer fabrications, wearing then a new hardware state - because it is a new hardware state.

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 09:38:16 pm »
Yes, you'd expect the HW version to change because otherwise they could be accepting good hardware for repairs it doesn't need.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 09:48:25 pm »
It is the normal way in production line.
The developement isn´t finished because the units has been left the factory for sale.
When improvements hast to be taken, they (the improvements) must take a change in the hardware configuration state, at least to different older from newer versions.
So do we, if an older unit comes in for repair/servicing, the first we check is the actual hardware state, say state "A".
If it´s now state "B" or "C", we´ll look in the history, what has been changed and change the old one too.

So I won´t worry actual about the hardware Version - As long, as my model could be changed to it too, of course....

Offline whatisthis

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 10:14:10 pm »
Yes, you'd expect the HW version to change because otherwise they could be accepting good hardware for repairs it doesn't need.

They can check also by serial number.

I have MSO5074 fw 00.01.01.04.04, hw 01.00.00, last calibration 29-apr-2019, purchased and received in May. No problems with display or fan.
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2019, 04:35:50 pm »
Hi

Based on a chat with TEquipment here in the US, I went ahead and ordered a 5074. They confirmed that all their stock is < 30 days old and that the updates for the screen were implemented at the factory roughly 90 days ago. That would make the "effective date" for the change on the production like something like the start of April. If it takes 30 days for product to go from assembly through shipping (maybe it does ....) that could mean ship dates / calibration dates anywhere in the month of April might / might not have the fix.

All of this is in the "who knows" category as far as I'm concerned. I pass it along only as reference matterial. We will see what the unit looks like (if ....) when it gets here.

Bob
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2019, 04:56:53 pm »
Just for the record, I don't know if you saw my msg:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg2482800/#msg2482800

My MSO bought last month has HW 01.01.000.
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2019, 05:41:22 pm »
Just for the record, I don't know if you saw my msg:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg2482800/#msg2482800

My MSO bought last month has HW 01.01.000.

Hi

Yup, that's why I asked them about it. My concern is about just how much inventory is left lying around in stock from "way back when". If it comes in and it is *not* the latest version, I wanted to be sure I had at least done my part to validate things. ( = they pay shipping back ....).

Bob
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2019, 08:41:51 pm »
Quote
My MSO bought last month has HW 01.01.000

Mine got HW 01.00.000, bought in Nov. 2018.
Tomorrow (here) it should arrive after hardware modifications doing by rigol - so it should be on HW 01.01. too.
We´ll see..

Offline hhappy1

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2019, 11:19:18 pm »
Quote
My MSO bought last month has HW 01.01.000

Mine got HW 01.00.000, bought in Nov. 2018.
Tomorrow (here) it should arrive after hardware modifications doing by rigol - so it should be on HW 01.01. too.
We´ll see..

I expect what has changed.

I bought it on June 10. The lastest cal is June 13.
The hardware is 1.00.  firmware 1.04.04.    (mso5000)

hardware 1.01 and I hope everything is fixed.
 

Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2019, 11:28:51 pm »
Martin72, you may be the first who has seen both versions.  Please keep us posted on the changes you observed so the rest of us can decide whether we need to send ours in for the upgrade. 

Thanks in advance.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2019, 04:51:15 pm »
Hi,

Quote
so it should be on HW 01.01. too.

After request they confirm, with the modifications my rigol is on actual harware level HW 01.01.
Today I got mine back - And the fan noise is dramatically lowered  8)
Also the display looks brigther than before, I´ll try to make a picture to compare (with nearly the same ambient light, could be difficult).
Of course they don´t give any further information about the mods taken, in the delivery note there are only two statements about:

- Maintenance of the whole machine to reduce fan noise
- Maintenance of LCD display for more brightness

Nevertheless, I´m very satisfied with the mods.  :)
 
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Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2019, 05:22:57 pm »
Hey Martin72, excellent! 

When did you get your original unit?  Love to see the pictures for before/after comparison.

Have you tried the hack to see if It works with the new hardwares?
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2019, 05:24:47 pm »
Nevertheless, I´m very satisfied with the mods.  :)

I never had the other, so can't make a comparison. But noise and screen seem OK to me.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2019, 05:50:23 pm »
The fan noise was really annoying….
Now it´s on the level of our WS3024, fine.


Quote
When did you get your original unit?

End of november 2018, one of the first.

Quote
Have you tried the hack to see if It works with the new hardwares?

Will doing it soon.

Martin

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2019, 06:59:04 pm »
Done it, with no Problems:


Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2019, 06:59:19 pm »
Hi,

Quote
so it should be on HW 01.01. too.

After request they confirm, with the modifications my rigol is on actual harware level HW 01.01.
Today I got mine back - And the fan noise is dramatically lowered  8)
Also the display looks brigther than before, I´ll try to make a picture to compare (with nearly the same ambient light, could be difficult).
Of course they don´t give any further information about the mods taken, in the delivery note there are only two statements about:

- Maintenance of the whole machine to reduce fan noise
- Maintenance of LCD display for more brightness

Nevertheless, I´m very satisfied with the mods.  :)
My unit's (purchased May 2019) LCD looks OK and the fan noise is low, but HW is 01.00.  I contacted Rigol USA and asked about the mods.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 08:11:18 pm by TK »
 

Offline Elminster

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2019, 07:17:09 pm »
I got my MSO5000 in May after waiting for a month, or so, for them to come back in stock. I am assuming the new stock have all the fixes as I have never had an issue with the fan, and the brightness is down at 20% on mine and plenty bright enough in a sun-facing room with a big bay window. But it still says hardware 01.00.00 so not sure they actually incremented the number.

Regards.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2019, 08:27:15 pm »
I´ve asked them (rigol service) directly, if my scope are with the mods equal to those with 01.01 and they answered "yes".
But still the "old" hardware state will be shown.
I think, they modify all the scopes which were already produced(and not shipped to the sellers), simultaneously totally new produced doesn´t need the mods anymore and this will be marked by the 01.01 state.

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2019, 08:33:46 pm »
I´ve asked them (rigol service) directly, if my scope are with the mods equal to those with 01.01 and they answered "yes".
But still the "old" hardware state will be shown.
I think, they modify all the scopes which were already produced(and not shipped to the sellers), simultaneously totally new produced doesn´t need the mods anymore and this will be marked by the 01.01 state.
It means your scope shows as HW 01.00?
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2019, 08:57:47 pm »
Yes and I have a possible explanation why the number doesn´t change.
For example the reduced fan noise : They must have the mod done on the pcb, because the fan is still the same as before (Sunon, 2-wire).
Same for the display.
Open it, doing whatever they must do for the mods - But:
Wherever the hardware version number is stored in, I couldn´t imagine that they will change it by re-programming/exchanging the affected parts.
Just modify/exchange the hardware that will be need.

Edit:

Therefore I asked rigol for exchange the delivery note - It´s title is "Repair" and this is 1) not correct, 2) irritating.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 09:03:29 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2019, 09:34:32 pm »
Yes and I have a possible explanation why the number doesn´t change.
For example the reduced fan noise : They must have the mod done on the pcb, because the fan is still the same as before (Sunon, 2-wire).
Same for the display.
Open it, doing whatever they must do for the mods - But:
Wherever the hardware version number is stored in, I couldn´t imagine that they will change it by re-programming/exchanging the affected parts.
Just modify/exchange the hardware that will be need.

How do we know the fan was not defective and was replaced though.
I don't recall seeing anyone else complain about fan noise. From what I remember this fan is quieter than my DS2000. But don't have my dB meter on hand right now to give you a number.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2019, 09:43:55 pm »
Quote
I don't recall seeing anyone else complain about fan noise

This is/was a common thing, rigol once confirmed to me.
 
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Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2019, 10:34:11 pm »
Hi

Ok, so my brand new 5074 showed up today. Indeed ordered it yesterday and it arrived today. That's the good news .... now for the rest of the news.

It left the factory in February. So much for "everything is less than 30 days old".

Fan noise? What fan noise? I would not in any way call this a noisy fan. I've had lots of gear that has more fan noise. Most of my PC's have more fan noise than this scope.

Dim screen? Seems ok to me. It certainly is a lot brighter than some of what I already have. Is it so bright I'm looking for the knob to turn it down? Not quite yet.

No big surprise on the magic numbers:

Hardware 1.00.000
Firmware 00.01.01.04.04
Build 2019-02-20 16:27:49

Calibrated 2019/2/17
Serial number on the cal sheet matches serial number on the "about" page on the scope.

Could it have gone through some sort of process after it left the factory? Sure it could. If so, that process left no trace .....

I'm happy with what I have, but a bit surprised by the "age" of the device after what I was told yesterday.

Bob
 
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Offline typoknig

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2019, 05:37:42 am »
Done it, with no Problems:



I think in one of your previous posts (might have been someone else) said that Rigol was going to be releasing new firmware in June that would address the trigger overshoot issue and some other problems. Have you heard any information about that?  We are running out of June :)

A firmware update would be a lot more likely to prevent entrepreneurial unlocks, so I've been holding off on purchasing this unit until existing unlock methods have been proven to work with the yet-to-be-released firmware.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2019, 08:14:42 am »
Hi,

Quote
We are running out of June

First it was "sometime in may", then june, then end of june…
Lot to do I think.  8)

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2019, 12:46:30 pm »
Hi

There may be multiple forms of release. Maybe it goes to the production floor 30 days prior to the release to the field.

Bob
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2019, 07:42:39 pm »
Therefore I asked rigol for exchange the delivery note - It´s title is "Repair" and this is 1) not correct, 2) irritating.

Today I got the changed delivery note, now it´s called modification/upgrade....
And they noticed the actual HW - somekind of irritating because the HW of my modified scope is 00.01.02, that´s what they written in the delivery note.
I´ll ask them, if this is correct.


Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2019, 06:54:30 pm »
I think in one of your previous posts (might have been someone else) said that Rigol was going to be releasing new firmware in June that would address the trigger overshoot issue and some other problems. Have you heard any information about that?  We are running out of June :)

First : I´ve asked them a few days before and they told me, that they want finishing the launching of the MSO8 series first ( and this should happen soon).
But and second:

beta-firmware by request ?

Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2019, 05:45:49 pm »
I think Rigol could have made it simpler for everyone if they can be more transparent about the hardware changes.  As there are original 1.00.00, modified 1.00.00 from stock, updated 1.00.00 via service, and 1.01.00.  You just don’t know what the changes are and what you have. 

Perhaps they view the hardware version is none of our concern, but being more transparent could also make future repair and services much easier for them and for us.  For all the 1.00.00 owners, there is no way to tell whether we have the brightened screen, or the quieter fan.  Hate to go through shipping and send it back just to find out that no improvement is required.

 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2019, 05:50:50 pm »
Hi

So here's a very basic question:

We all *assume* that hacking the firmware voids the warranty. Has Rigol actually said that it does or refused service because somebody hacked a scope?

We all *assume* popping the beast open voids the warranty. Again, anything from Rigol that says this is the case?

I'm in no way trying to suggest that I know the answer to either question. I have seen examples in the past (with other outfits) where actual mods to the instrument didn't void the warranty. ( = Tektronix on mods to bring out a feed from one of the channels).

Bob
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 05:58:47 pm by uncle_bob »
 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2019, 05:56:02 pm »
At least in the USA,  the FTC has declared "warranty void" stickers as illegal (or at least un-enforceable).
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2019, 06:41:23 pm »
I think Rigol could have made it simpler for everyone if they can be more transparent about the hardware changes.  As there are original 1.00.00, modified 1.00.00 from stock, updated 1.00.00 via service, and 1.01.00.  You just don’t know what the changes are and what you have. 

Perhaps they view the hardware version is none of our concern, but being more transparent could also make future repair and services much easier for them and for us.  For all the 1.00.00 owners, there is no way to tell whether we have the brightened screen, or the quieter fan.  Hate to go through shipping and send it back just to find out that no improvement is required.
I think Rigol (at least in the US) keeps the HW versions of each scope in their database.  When I asked about my HW 1.00, they asked me for the serial number and confirmed my unit has the LCD brightness and fan noise fixes already applied.
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2019, 06:49:54 pm »
I think Rigol (at least in the US) keeps the HW versions of each scope in their database.

Since they need to keep also the licensing key, model, etc with them, it shouldn't be too difficult to also store the HW version and other parameters.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2019, 07:00:34 pm »
For all the 1.00.00 owners, there is no way to tell whether we have the brightened screen, or the quieter fan.  Hate to go through shipping and send it back just to find out that no improvement is required.

Believe me, when you actually don´t hear your fan ( or nearly not), you got the actual version - my MSO5 was from 11/2018 and really noisy…. 8)
Not so nice : The unit heats up, more than before - Ask them tomorrow if this is critical for lifetime/accuracy at all.
I hope, before they done the mods, they´ll calculated with this temperature.

Quote
We all *assume* that hacking the firmware voids the warranty. Has Rigol actually said that it does or refused service because somebody hacked a scope?

Don´t know, I did a "downgrade" before sending it to them for the mods.
But maybe this could have no purpose because:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2545293/#msg2545293

They tried to read mine out (but couldn´t ).
By the way, could anyone reproduce it ?



Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2019, 07:25:58 pm »
I think the equipment wouldn't pass a thorough forensic analysis, regarding downgrades/rollbacks.

Nonetheless, doing a full NAND+FRAM restoration (which is possible through software) and a few trail cleaning should make things almost impossible to discover.

But, I don't believe Rigol ever goes to such effort or even developed a tool do that forensic study as it has a practical zero interest in it.

That's a manufacture company, not a CSI lab.

I bet if they don't see nothing on the online reporting  (for those that connect to the net) and if the machine files/licenses looks as stock, they won't raise problems.
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2019, 07:33:54 pm »
Hi

Back in the day .... If you did something that damaged the gear or kept it from doing what it should, Tektronix would not reverse that for free. If whatever you had done left the equipment working OK, then they could care less. While I don't *know* that is Rigol's policy, it seems like a pretty rational approach. It's certainly way easier / cheaper / quicker than getting into all sorts of fights with your customers.

Bob
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2019, 08:47:46 pm »
Quote
If you did something that damaged the gear or kept it from doing what it should, Tektronix would not reverse that for free.

Sounds right to me.
If you done things which cause a defect, it´s your problem and not a case of warranty.
It´s itching in my fingers to do some mods on my MSO5, like other display and other fan...the void sticker could be easily remove without a damage.
Hm-hm.....

Offline kahuna0k

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2019, 02:32:49 am »
Believe me, when you actually don´t hear your fan ( or nearly not), you got the actual version - my MSO5 was from 11/2018 and really noisy…. 8)
Not so nice : The unit heats up, more than before - Ask them tomorrow if this is critical for lifetime/accuracy at all.
I hope, before they done the mods, they´ll calculated with this temperature.

I can hear my MSO5074 bought 3/7/19 HW version 1.0, but my Siglent SDS 1104X-E is much noisier. In fact almost any other bench instrument I have is noisier than the Rigol. When you say "or nearly not" what dB level are we talking about? You know we are talking about measurements here, we want precision! :D
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 02:34:36 am by kahuna0k »
 

Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2019, 03:22:41 pm »
TK and tv84, thanks for the info, it is great that they keep track of the update to each scope by serial number, that certainly makes me feel better although it is more work for them.

Martin72, I wonder if the fan is exactly the same, but that they reduced the fan speed to reduce noise in exchange for higher operating temperature.  If so, I wonder if the fan is thermostatically controlled.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2019, 03:48:14 pm »
They told me that no changes was done on the board, some components were added to the fan and the display.
Can this be true….adding components to make a fan silent, I can understand ( resistor in series perhaps).
But adding components to make the display brighter…
For what I can see without opening the case is, that the fan could be the same as before (Sunon, 2-Wire).
Or not...
In fact, they must have done something with the fan, because the wire are normally fixed on the side by a tie wrap - here, they forgot to fixed it again.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 04:00:09 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2019, 03:51:23 pm »
Hi

Did they add some rubber padding to isolate the fan from the rest of the structure? That's a pretty common fix. Previous reports have suggested that the display "fix" involves a couple resistors.

Bob
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2019, 04:01:15 pm »
Hi Bob,

The fan is still directly mounted on the plate.

Martin

Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2019, 07:16:58 pm »
Could they have added thermistor fan control to keep it at lower rpm during light use?

I know the Papst fan used in my Agilent system power supplies have thermistor in them for variable speed control.  I wonder if Rigol did the same?  The higher temperature you observed definitely points to a lower cfm, if the fan is the same, that means lower rpm.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2019, 07:59:16 pm »
It´s definitely lower rpm, as if the fan got now less voltage than before - would speak for a resistor, but I couldn´t see anyone additional in the wire.
Maybe they´ve exchanged the fan....ah, want to take a look inside so badly.  8)

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2019, 11:04:47 am »
Quote
Maybe they´ve exchanged the fan.

Couldn´t resist any longer….
After open it up (without damaging the sticker…) I take a close look to the fan - Nothing.
No additional parts, no "fresh" solderpads, nothing....
So they must Exchange the fan - No, it´s the same Sunon MagLev as before, 12V 3000rpm.
So I switch the scope on - this is never 3000 rpm….
Measure the voltage at the fan-connector, 6.5Vdc.
This make sense, voltage is reduced for lower rpm.
But the "jittering" on the display of my fluke made me curious and so I plug in a probe and measure the voltage with scope:



Aha... ;)
 
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Offline hhappy1

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2019, 12:54:18 pm »
Quote
Maybe they´ve exchanged the fan.

Couldn´t resist any longer….
After open it up (without damaging the sticker…) I take a close look to the fan - Nothing.
No additional parts, no "fresh" solderpads, nothing....
So they must Exchange the fan - No, it´s the same Sunon MagLev as before, 12V 3000rpm.
So I switch the scope on - this is never 3000 rpm….
Measure the voltage at the fan-connector, 6.5Vdc.
This make sense, voltage is reduced for lower rpm.
But the "jittering" on the display of my fluke made me curious and so I plug in a probe and measure the voltage with scope:



Aha... ;)


Ho~~  How do I remove a sticker without damaging it?

I'll measure the voltage of my product.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2019, 02:30:54 pm »
By heaten it up with e.g. a heatgun.
90°C are enough, too high will damage it.
Slowly heaten up, then lift it on one side carefully with a razorblade or similar thin thing.
 
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Offline alexvg

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2019, 11:37:34 pm »
By heaten it up with e.g. a heatgun.
90°C are enough, too high will damage it.
Slowly heaten up, then lift it on one side carefully with a razorblade or similar thin thing.
I've leaved the device running for 3-4 hours (the device's case is been hot). And I've removed the sticker with the back paper of a bandage (the non-adherent side or anything like that). It takes 20-30 seconds to remove it completely.
 
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Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2019, 12:12:53 am »
Thanks for heads up from Serg_77, firmware 00.01.01.04.08 is out.  It is currently only on the Chinese site, nothing on the international or US site yet. 

http://cn.rigol.com/File/ProductSoftWare/20190812/MSO5000(ARM)Update_00.01.01.04.08.rar

I downloaded the file, release note is surprisingly short compared to the last release.  Perhaps they dedicated all their firmware resources towards the MSO8000 launch.

It is unclear at this point on how it affects the "enhancements" developed by our dear forum members. 

In the update instruction, it states: "MSO5000 series digital oscilloscope does not support the downgrading operations."  If true, it is an one way street for the firmware changes.


v00.01.01.04.08 2019/08/02

      -Fixed system crashed when clicking Default.
      -Fixed 4CH option bug.
      -Fixed noise signal captured.
      -Improved the measure result updating rate.
      -Fixed accurate measurements not updated in ROLL

v00.01.01.04.04  2019/02/20

     - Optimized the operating experience of the local upgrade.
     
     - Added the 12-bit high resolution mode.
     - Added 500uV/div in vertical scale.
     - Added the SCPI command :MEASure:STATistic:ITEM CNT,<item>[,<src>[,<src>]]
       to reading the count of measure statistics.
     - The waveform can zoom out by drawing a rectangle. If you draw a rectangle
       from the top left to the bottom right, the waveform will zoom in. If you
       draw it from the bottom right to the top left(the opposite direction),
       the waveform will zoom out.
     - Added the GND coupling in channel.
     - Enriched the color options of the LA channels.
     - If the newest version is detected, a red dot will display in the Online
       upgrade menu.
       
     - Modified the waveform freeze problem in slow scan mode.
     - The boot time is reduced to less than 1 minute.
     - Improve the touch experience in the lower half of the touch screen.
     - Reduced the noise amplitude of the waveform.
     - Modified the problem of decode vanishing after moving signals.
     - Modified the error of digital waveform when adjusting the timebase after
       stop the sampling.
     - The :SYSTEM:SETUP command can successfully save and upload setting
       information in remote.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 12:16:39 am by NoisyBoy »
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2019, 09:20:01 am »
What a disappointment! After all this time and delays and only a .08 release???  :palm:
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2019, 05:29:30 pm »
Rigol told me, they´re focussing on the MS08000, after it´s release they will work on the firmware - So I am surprised, that a new firmware arrives so soon.
Don´t know what their intention is, feeding crumb for crumb maybe...

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2019, 07:42:33 pm »
Thanks for heads up from Serg_77, firmware 00.01.01.04.08 is out.  It is currently only on the Chinese site, nothing on the international or US site yet.

Still it isn´t avaible on US site or on rigol.eu ……
So does it means this is a beta ?


Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2019, 08:11:23 pm »
I noticed that as well, if I recall correctly, the same was true for the 04.04 firmware, there was a delay.

I doubt any company will issue beta firmware without expressly saying so on their main site, may be it is a soft launch, or there is a delay on website update for non-Chinese sites and they are waiting for some external firm to update them due to the language barrier.  Only Rigol would know the answer. 

In addition to Rigol's posted fixes, mabl had kindly shared that self-cal is now perfect, perhaps that's the most important fix for those with affected scopes.  I never had the self-cal problem on my scope, so I don't have a way to verify it.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2019, 09:06:00 pm »
Quote
if I recall correctly, the same was true for the 04.04 firmware, there was a delay.

You´re right, but imho it wasn´t so long.


Quote
I never had the self-cal problem on my scope

Me too and to be honest, nearly 100% of the known bugs are not of that kind that makes working with the scope impossible.

Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2019, 11:30:05 pm »
Agreed, I have not experienced any stability issues with 04.08, but my use case is fairly limited compared to others.

Rigol might not have documented every fix the new firmware brings (take auto-cal for example).  It would be interesting to see if it addresses any of the other known issues the forum has identified so far.
 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2019, 02:39:15 am »
Is that bspatch .txt file a text file or has it been compressed with something and needs to be renamed and expanded?
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2019, 05:50:57 am »
Rigol told me, they´re focussing on the MS08000, after it´s release they will work on the firmware - So I am surprised, that a new firmware arrives so soon.

There's probably a lot of code that's common to the two. Fix something on the MSO8000 and it gets fixed on the MSO5000 as well.
 

Online luma

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2019, 12:26:34 pm »
Is that bspatch .txt file a text file or has it been compressed with something and needs to be renamed and expanded?

That file should be ready to use w/ bspatch/bsdiff on your platform of choice.
 

Offline oliv3r

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2019, 10:16:38 am »
Quote
Maybe they´ve exchanged the fan.

Couldn´t resist any longer….
After open it up (without damaging the sticker…) I take a close look to the fan - Nothing.
No additional parts, no "fresh" solderpads, nothing....
So they must Exchange the fan - No, it´s the same Sunon MagLev as before, 12V 3000rpm.
So I switch the scope on - this is never 3000 rpm….
Measure the voltage at the fan-connector, 6.5Vdc.
This make sense, voltage is reduced for lower rpm.
But the "jittering" on the display of my fluke made me curious and so I plug in a probe and measure the voltage with scope:



Aha... ;)

Did you check the PCB for rework? Replaced resistor or something?

For both fan and display? I bet it's a super small change, so it's likely done by hand. Swap out two resistors is a trivial thing of course.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2019, 06:18:37 pm »
Hi,

Quote
Did you check the PCB for rework? Replaced resistor or something?

I took only the case away, no further tear down, sorry.


Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2019, 01:13:32 am »
The Chinese Rigol main site just refreshed their entire page design, as part of this update, the firmware for MSO5000 removed the detail level (it is only listed as 00.01.01 now), but has in fact reverted back to 04.04 when you opened the rar file.

http://cn.rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/%E7%94%B5%E5%AD%90%E6%B5%8B%E9%87%8F%E4%BB%AA%E5%99%A8/%E7%A4%BA%E6%B3%A2%E5%99%A8/MSO5000/%E8%BD%AF%E4%BB%B6%E4%B8%8B%E8%BD%BD/DS5000(ARM)Update.rar

http://cn.rigol.com/Cn/Index/listView/catid/28/p/3.html

My personal suspicion is when they began the site redesign, they took the content from a certain point in time, and they migrated the entire (old) content to the new design during the switch over (the 8/22 date).  So now the content is out-dated, it may take them some time to catch up and refresh all the content on the new site.  If it is the case, it is not a good practice in site redesign, as one should have refreshed all the content before flipping over to the new site.

Martin72 has questioned why it took so long for 04.08 to make it to the US or EU site.  So there's always a chance that this firmware was pulled, I am sure we will see some clarity in the coming weeks as they continue their web content update.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #68 on: September 02, 2019, 08:57:37 pm »
Rigol support told me once in july, if there is a new firmware avaible they will inform me about(like they did it by the last).
Until now it doesn´t happen.


Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2019, 04:31:33 pm »
The Chinese Rigol site updated their version info, it is now 04.04 - consistent with the sites at other regions (which as Martin72 stated, never offered 04.08). 

So if it is not a web content error, they might have in fact pulled back the 04.08 update.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2019, 05:09:06 pm »
 
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Offline stmcore

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Offline NoisyBoy

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2019, 12:11:18 am »
stmcore, thanks for the site.

That is exactly what not to do when it comes to web management, all the other sites are on 04.04, and you have one Chinese support site on 04.08.   |O

I surely hope they will do a better job in coding the next release of the firmware update. 
 


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