Author Topic: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions  (Read 66156 times)

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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« on: May 27, 2019, 03:11:01 pm »
There has been a number of discussions about the Rigol MSO5000 hardware/firmware changes in the hacking thread, thought I would start a new topic to consolidate these discussions and leave hacking thread to hacking discussions.

To start, I received my unit back in mid March.  It has a late February build date (based on calibration certificate), it has firmware 1.00.000.  I use it in an average lit room, I have to say that the screen brightness is not a serious issue in my case.  It won't compare to a new iPad Pro screen, but it is usable.

Here is what I picked up from various discussions:
* ivonenand received his unit in mid May, hardware has been updated to 1.01.000, there is no publications on exactly what this change entails.
* From rowifi: "Have heard that there is a revised hardware for the MSO5000 to fix the screen brightness.  Just resistor changes apparently. New devices being shipped with this change", and "Scopes at distributors need to go back to Germany to be fixed"
* From Magnum: "Batronix told me today that the display fix was already introduced a couple of months ago. Don't know if that is true."
* From Martin72: "I´ve asked them(if the resistor-fix is true and how to handle it), answer should be given next week."
* There is also a new firmware revision coming, rumored in June, to improve the self-cal, adds new features in power analysis, and various fixes.

I look forward to hearing contributions from all of you, thank you.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 09:39:39 pm »
Hi,

See this one:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2448378/#msg2448378

New MSOs should arrive with low noise fan and brighter display - After consulting rigol.eu service, I´ll send mine in the mid/end of june to them for fixing the noisy fan and probably lighter display.
For free, except shipping costs to them.
New firmware-update is planned for sometime in june.


Offline Magnum

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2019, 08:24:57 pm »
Hello,
received a MSO5074 today. It shows Firmware 00.01.01.04.04 and hardware 01.00.000
Last Selfcal was in March, I assume that was in the factory.

The screen looks ok, IMHO as bright as my DS1054Z. Maybe a bit brighter. Fan is audible, but ok for me.
 

Offline hhappy1

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2019, 11:35:33 pm »
Hi~ sir.

My Rigol arrived in mid-May and Latest selfcalibration on April 28th.
firmware : 01.04.04    ,   hardware : 1.00

There was nothing uncomfortable about fan sound and screen brightness.
Channels 3 and 4 are slightly darker, but similar to ds2000a.

The self calibration was inaccurate, so I asked 'Rigol' and contacted me.
On June 11th, I send the product to RIGOLKorea.

I will ask about fan sound and screen brightness. I will write back how it was modified.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2019, 11:51:19 pm by hhappy1 »
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2019, 03:22:06 am »
Keep us posted.  It seems like they are in the midst of a transition to version 1.01 hardware, as I have only seen one person reporting in with the new hardware.  Since you have seen how ver 1.00 hardware works, if they upgrade you to 1.01, you would be the first person who can tell us the difference it makes.

The biggest question is whether 1.01 is just a component change with equivalent function as 1.00?  Or does it actually bring improvement to the scope such as lower noise or brighter screen.  If it is the latter, then I would definitely be sending mine in for service.
 

Offline Magnum

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 08:46:48 pm »
i am pretty sure that the one I got (with hardware 1.00) already has the improved display and fan. I have nothing to complain.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 08:59:35 pm »
I'm sure you're happy with it but I suspect it's the same as others.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 09:21:03 pm »
I´ll send mine in this week to rigol for modification what fan and screen-brightness concerns….
It wouldn´t be unsurprised if these mods were already done in newer fabrications, wearing then a new hardware state - because it is a new hardware state.

Offline maginnovision

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 09:38:16 pm »
Yes, you'd expect the HW version to change because otherwise they could be accepting good hardware for repairs it doesn't need.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2019, 09:48:25 pm »
It is the normal way in production line.
The developement isn´t finished because the units has been left the factory for sale.
When improvements hast to be taken, they (the improvements) must take a change in the hardware configuration state, at least to different older from newer versions.
So do we, if an older unit comes in for repair/servicing, the first we check is the actual hardware state, say state "A".
If it´s now state "B" or "C", we´ll look in the history, what has been changed and change the old one too.

So I won´t worry actual about the hardware Version - As long, as my model could be changed to it too, of course....

Offline whatisthis

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2019, 10:14:10 pm »
Yes, you'd expect the HW version to change because otherwise they could be accepting good hardware for repairs it doesn't need.

They can check also by serial number.

I have MSO5074 fw 00.01.01.04.04, hw 01.00.00, last calibration 29-apr-2019, purchased and received in May. No problems with display or fan.
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2019, 04:35:50 pm »
Hi

Based on a chat with TEquipment here in the US, I went ahead and ordered a 5074. They confirmed that all their stock is < 30 days old and that the updates for the screen were implemented at the factory roughly 90 days ago. That would make the "effective date" for the change on the production like something like the start of April. If it takes 30 days for product to go from assembly through shipping (maybe it does ....) that could mean ship dates / calibration dates anywhere in the month of April might / might not have the fix.

All of this is in the "who knows" category as far as I'm concerned. I pass it along only as reference matterial. We will see what the unit looks like (if ....) when it gets here.

Bob
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2019, 04:56:53 pm »
Just for the record, I don't know if you saw my msg:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg2482800/#msg2482800

My MSO bought last month has HW 01.01.000.
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2019, 05:41:22 pm »
Just for the record, I don't know if you saw my msg:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg2482800/#msg2482800

My MSO bought last month has HW 01.01.000.

Hi

Yup, that's why I asked them about it. My concern is about just how much inventory is left lying around in stock from "way back when". If it comes in and it is *not* the latest version, I wanted to be sure I had at least done my part to validate things. ( = they pay shipping back ....).

Bob
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2019, 08:41:51 pm »
Quote
My MSO bought last month has HW 01.01.000

Mine got HW 01.00.000, bought in Nov. 2018.
Tomorrow (here) it should arrive after hardware modifications doing by rigol - so it should be on HW 01.01. too.
We´ll see..

Offline hhappy1

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2019, 11:19:18 pm »
Quote
My MSO bought last month has HW 01.01.000

Mine got HW 01.00.000, bought in Nov. 2018.
Tomorrow (here) it should arrive after hardware modifications doing by rigol - so it should be on HW 01.01. too.
We´ll see..

I expect what has changed.

I bought it on June 10. The lastest cal is June 13.
The hardware is 1.00.  firmware 1.04.04.    (mso5000)

hardware 1.01 and I hope everything is fixed.
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2019, 11:28:51 pm »
Martin72, you may be the first who has seen both versions.  Please keep us posted on the changes you observed so the rest of us can decide whether we need to send ours in for the upgrade. 

Thanks in advance.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2019, 04:51:15 pm »
Hi,

Quote
so it should be on HW 01.01. too.

After request they confirm, with the modifications my rigol is on actual harware level HW 01.01.
Today I got mine back - And the fan noise is dramatically lowered  8)
Also the display looks brigther than before, I´ll try to make a picture to compare (with nearly the same ambient light, could be difficult).
Of course they don´t give any further information about the mods taken, in the delivery note there are only two statements about:

- Maintenance of the whole machine to reduce fan noise
- Maintenance of LCD display for more brightness

Nevertheless, I´m very satisfied with the mods.  :)
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2019, 05:22:57 pm »
Hey Martin72, excellent! 

When did you get your original unit?  Love to see the pictures for before/after comparison.

Have you tried the hack to see if It works with the new hardwares?
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2019, 05:24:47 pm »
Nevertheless, I´m very satisfied with the mods.  :)

I never had the other, so can't make a comparison. But noise and screen seem OK to me.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2019, 05:50:23 pm »
The fan noise was really annoying….
Now it´s on the level of our WS3024, fine.


Quote
When did you get your original unit?

End of november 2018, one of the first.

Quote
Have you tried the hack to see if It works with the new hardwares?

Will doing it soon.

Martin

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2019, 06:59:04 pm »
Done it, with no Problems:


Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2019, 06:59:19 pm »
Hi,

Quote
so it should be on HW 01.01. too.

After request they confirm, with the modifications my rigol is on actual harware level HW 01.01.
Today I got mine back - And the fan noise is dramatically lowered  8)
Also the display looks brigther than before, I´ll try to make a picture to compare (with nearly the same ambient light, could be difficult).
Of course they don´t give any further information about the mods taken, in the delivery note there are only two statements about:

- Maintenance of the whole machine to reduce fan noise
- Maintenance of LCD display for more brightness

Nevertheless, I´m very satisfied with the mods.  :)
My unit's (purchased May 2019) LCD looks OK and the fan noise is low, but HW is 01.00.  I contacted Rigol USA and asked about the mods.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 08:11:18 pm by TK »
 

Offline Elminster

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #23 on: June 28, 2019, 07:17:09 pm »
I got my MSO5000 in May after waiting for a month, or so, for them to come back in stock. I am assuming the new stock have all the fixes as I have never had an issue with the fan, and the brightness is down at 20% on mine and plenty bright enough in a sun-facing room with a big bay window. But it still says hardware 01.00.00 so not sure they actually incremented the number.

Regards.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #24 on: June 28, 2019, 08:27:15 pm »
I´ve asked them (rigol service) directly, if my scope are with the mods equal to those with 01.01 and they answered "yes".
But still the "old" hardware state will be shown.
I think, they modify all the scopes which were already produced(and not shipped to the sellers), simultaneously totally new produced doesn´t need the mods anymore and this will be marked by the 01.01 state.

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #25 on: June 28, 2019, 08:33:46 pm »
I´ve asked them (rigol service) directly, if my scope are with the mods equal to those with 01.01 and they answered "yes".
But still the "old" hardware state will be shown.
I think, they modify all the scopes which were already produced(and not shipped to the sellers), simultaneously totally new produced doesn´t need the mods anymore and this will be marked by the 01.01 state.
It means your scope shows as HW 01.00?
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2019, 08:57:47 pm »
Yes and I have a possible explanation why the number doesn´t change.
For example the reduced fan noise : They must have the mod done on the pcb, because the fan is still the same as before (Sunon, 2-wire).
Same for the display.
Open it, doing whatever they must do for the mods - But:
Wherever the hardware version number is stored in, I couldn´t imagine that they will change it by re-programming/exchanging the affected parts.
Just modify/exchange the hardware that will be need.

Edit:

Therefore I asked rigol for exchange the delivery note - It´s title is "Repair" and this is 1) not correct, 2) irritating.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 09:03:29 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2019, 09:34:32 pm »
Yes and I have a possible explanation why the number doesn´t change.
For example the reduced fan noise : They must have the mod done on the pcb, because the fan is still the same as before (Sunon, 2-wire).
Same for the display.
Open it, doing whatever they must do for the mods - But:
Wherever the hardware version number is stored in, I couldn´t imagine that they will change it by re-programming/exchanging the affected parts.
Just modify/exchange the hardware that will be need.

How do we know the fan was not defective and was replaced though.
I don't recall seeing anyone else complain about fan noise. From what I remember this fan is quieter than my DS2000. But don't have my dB meter on hand right now to give you a number.
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2019, 09:43:55 pm »
Quote
I don't recall seeing anyone else complain about fan noise

This is/was a common thing, rigol once confirmed to me.
 
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Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2019, 10:34:11 pm »
Hi

Ok, so my brand new 5074 showed up today. Indeed ordered it yesterday and it arrived today. That's the good news .... now for the rest of the news.

It left the factory in February. So much for "everything is less than 30 days old".

Fan noise? What fan noise? I would not in any way call this a noisy fan. I've had lots of gear that has more fan noise. Most of my PC's have more fan noise than this scope.

Dim screen? Seems ok to me. It certainly is a lot brighter than some of what I already have. Is it so bright I'm looking for the knob to turn it down? Not quite yet.

No big surprise on the magic numbers:

Hardware 1.00.000
Firmware 00.01.01.04.04
Build 2019-02-20 16:27:49

Calibrated 2019/2/17
Serial number on the cal sheet matches serial number on the "about" page on the scope.

Could it have gone through some sort of process after it left the factory? Sure it could. If so, that process left no trace .....

I'm happy with what I have, but a bit surprised by the "age" of the device after what I was told yesterday.

Bob
 
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Offline typoknig

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2019, 05:37:42 am »
Done it, with no Problems:



I think in one of your previous posts (might have been someone else) said that Rigol was going to be releasing new firmware in June that would address the trigger overshoot issue and some other problems. Have you heard any information about that?  We are running out of June :)

A firmware update would be a lot more likely to prevent entrepreneurial unlocks, so I've been holding off on purchasing this unit until existing unlock methods have been proven to work with the yet-to-be-released firmware.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2019, 08:14:42 am »
Hi,

Quote
We are running out of June

First it was "sometime in may", then june, then end of june…
Lot to do I think.  8)

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2019, 12:46:30 pm »
Hi

There may be multiple forms of release. Maybe it goes to the production floor 30 days prior to the release to the field.

Bob
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2019, 07:42:39 pm »
Therefore I asked rigol for exchange the delivery note - It´s title is "Repair" and this is 1) not correct, 2) irritating.

Today I got the changed delivery note, now it´s called modification/upgrade....
And they noticed the actual HW - somekind of irritating because the HW of my modified scope is 00.01.02, that´s what they written in the delivery note.
I´ll ask them, if this is correct.


Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2019, 06:54:30 pm »
I think in one of your previous posts (might have been someone else) said that Rigol was going to be releasing new firmware in June that would address the trigger overshoot issue and some other problems. Have you heard any information about that?  We are running out of June :)

First : I´ve asked them a few days before and they told me, that they want finishing the launching of the MSO8 series first ( and this should happen soon).
But and second:

beta-firmware by request ?

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2019, 05:45:49 pm »
I think Rigol could have made it simpler for everyone if they can be more transparent about the hardware changes.  As there are original 1.00.00, modified 1.00.00 from stock, updated 1.00.00 via service, and 1.01.00.  You just don’t know what the changes are and what you have. 

Perhaps they view the hardware version is none of our concern, but being more transparent could also make future repair and services much easier for them and for us.  For all the 1.00.00 owners, there is no way to tell whether we have the brightened screen, or the quieter fan.  Hate to go through shipping and send it back just to find out that no improvement is required.

 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2019, 05:50:50 pm »
Hi

So here's a very basic question:

We all *assume* that hacking the firmware voids the warranty. Has Rigol actually said that it does or refused service because somebody hacked a scope?

We all *assume* popping the beast open voids the warranty. Again, anything from Rigol that says this is the case?

I'm in no way trying to suggest that I know the answer to either question. I have seen examples in the past (with other outfits) where actual mods to the instrument didn't void the warranty. ( = Tektronix on mods to bring out a feed from one of the channels).

Bob
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 05:58:47 pm by uncle_bob »
 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2019, 05:56:02 pm »
At least in the USA,  the FTC has declared "warranty void" stickers as illegal (or at least un-enforceable).
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2019, 06:41:23 pm »
I think Rigol could have made it simpler for everyone if they can be more transparent about the hardware changes.  As there are original 1.00.00, modified 1.00.00 from stock, updated 1.00.00 via service, and 1.01.00.  You just don’t know what the changes are and what you have. 

Perhaps they view the hardware version is none of our concern, but being more transparent could also make future repair and services much easier for them and for us.  For all the 1.00.00 owners, there is no way to tell whether we have the brightened screen, or the quieter fan.  Hate to go through shipping and send it back just to find out that no improvement is required.
I think Rigol (at least in the US) keeps the HW versions of each scope in their database.  When I asked about my HW 1.00, they asked me for the serial number and confirmed my unit has the LCD brightness and fan noise fixes already applied.
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2019, 06:49:54 pm »
I think Rigol (at least in the US) keeps the HW versions of each scope in their database.

Since they need to keep also the licensing key, model, etc with them, it shouldn't be too difficult to also store the HW version and other parameters.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2019, 07:00:34 pm »
For all the 1.00.00 owners, there is no way to tell whether we have the brightened screen, or the quieter fan.  Hate to go through shipping and send it back just to find out that no improvement is required.

Believe me, when you actually don´t hear your fan ( or nearly not), you got the actual version - my MSO5 was from 11/2018 and really noisy…. 8)
Not so nice : The unit heats up, more than before - Ask them tomorrow if this is critical for lifetime/accuracy at all.
I hope, before they done the mods, they´ll calculated with this temperature.

Quote
We all *assume* that hacking the firmware voids the warranty. Has Rigol actually said that it does or refused service because somebody hacked a scope?

Don´t know, I did a "downgrade" before sending it to them for the mods.
But maybe this could have no purpose because:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2545293/#msg2545293

They tried to read mine out (but couldn´t ).
By the way, could anyone reproduce it ?



Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2019, 07:25:58 pm »
I think the equipment wouldn't pass a thorough forensic analysis, regarding downgrades/rollbacks.

Nonetheless, doing a full NAND+FRAM restoration (which is possible through software) and a few trail cleaning should make things almost impossible to discover.

But, I don't believe Rigol ever goes to such effort or even developed a tool do that forensic study as it has a practical zero interest in it.

That's a manufacture company, not a CSI lab.

I bet if they don't see nothing on the online reporting  (for those that connect to the net) and if the machine files/licenses looks as stock, they won't raise problems.
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2019, 07:33:54 pm »
Hi

Back in the day .... If you did something that damaged the gear or kept it from doing what it should, Tektronix would not reverse that for free. If whatever you had done left the equipment working OK, then they could care less. While I don't *know* that is Rigol's policy, it seems like a pretty rational approach. It's certainly way easier / cheaper / quicker than getting into all sorts of fights with your customers.

Bob
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2019, 08:47:46 pm »
Quote
If you did something that damaged the gear or kept it from doing what it should, Tektronix would not reverse that for free.

Sounds right to me.
If you done things which cause a defect, it´s your problem and not a case of warranty.
It´s itching in my fingers to do some mods on my MSO5, like other display and other fan...the void sticker could be easily remove without a damage.
Hm-hm.....

Offline kahuna0k

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2019, 02:32:49 am »
Believe me, when you actually don´t hear your fan ( or nearly not), you got the actual version - my MSO5 was from 11/2018 and really noisy…. 8)
Not so nice : The unit heats up, more than before - Ask them tomorrow if this is critical for lifetime/accuracy at all.
I hope, before they done the mods, they´ll calculated with this temperature.

I can hear my MSO5074 bought 3/7/19 HW version 1.0, but my Siglent SDS 1104X-E is much noisier. In fact almost any other bench instrument I have is noisier than the Rigol. When you say "or nearly not" what dB level are we talking about? You know we are talking about measurements here, we want precision! :D
« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 02:34:36 am by kahuna0k »
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2019, 03:22:41 pm »
TK and tv84, thanks for the info, it is great that they keep track of the update to each scope by serial number, that certainly makes me feel better although it is more work for them.

Martin72, I wonder if the fan is exactly the same, but that they reduced the fan speed to reduce noise in exchange for higher operating temperature.  If so, I wonder if the fan is thermostatically controlled.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2019, 03:48:14 pm »
They told me that no changes was done on the board, some components were added to the fan and the display.
Can this be true….adding components to make a fan silent, I can understand ( resistor in series perhaps).
But adding components to make the display brighter…
For what I can see without opening the case is, that the fan could be the same as before (Sunon, 2-Wire).
Or not...
In fact, they must have done something with the fan, because the wire are normally fixed on the side by a tie wrap - here, they forgot to fixed it again.

« Last Edit: July 15, 2019, 04:00:09 pm by Martin72 »
 

Offline uncle_bob

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2019, 03:51:23 pm »
Hi

Did they add some rubber padding to isolate the fan from the rest of the structure? That's a pretty common fix. Previous reports have suggested that the display "fix" involves a couple resistors.

Bob
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2019, 04:01:15 pm »
Hi Bob,

The fan is still directly mounted on the plate.

Martin

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2019, 07:16:58 pm »
Could they have added thermistor fan control to keep it at lower rpm during light use?

I know the Papst fan used in my Agilent system power supplies have thermistor in them for variable speed control.  I wonder if Rigol did the same?  The higher temperature you observed definitely points to a lower cfm, if the fan is the same, that means lower rpm.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2019, 07:59:16 pm »
It´s definitely lower rpm, as if the fan got now less voltage than before - would speak for a resistor, but I couldn´t see anyone additional in the wire.
Maybe they´ve exchanged the fan....ah, want to take a look inside so badly.  8)

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2019, 11:04:47 am »
Quote
Maybe they´ve exchanged the fan.

Couldn´t resist any longer….
After open it up (without damaging the sticker…) I take a close look to the fan - Nothing.
No additional parts, no "fresh" solderpads, nothing....
So they must Exchange the fan - No, it´s the same Sunon MagLev as before, 12V 3000rpm.
So I switch the scope on - this is never 3000 rpm….
Measure the voltage at the fan-connector, 6.5Vdc.
This make sense, voltage is reduced for lower rpm.
But the "jittering" on the display of my fluke made me curious and so I plug in a probe and measure the voltage with scope:



Aha... ;)
 
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Offline hhappy1

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2019, 12:54:18 pm »
Quote
Maybe they´ve exchanged the fan.

Couldn´t resist any longer….
After open it up (without damaging the sticker…) I take a close look to the fan - Nothing.
No additional parts, no "fresh" solderpads, nothing....
So they must Exchange the fan - No, it´s the same Sunon MagLev as before, 12V 3000rpm.
So I switch the scope on - this is never 3000 rpm….
Measure the voltage at the fan-connector, 6.5Vdc.
This make sense, voltage is reduced for lower rpm.
But the "jittering" on the display of my fluke made me curious and so I plug in a probe and measure the voltage with scope:



Aha... ;)


Ho~~  How do I remove a sticker without damaging it?

I'll measure the voltage of my product.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2019, 02:30:54 pm »
By heaten it up with e.g. a heatgun.
90°C are enough, too high will damage it.
Slowly heaten up, then lift it on one side carefully with a razorblade or similar thin thing.
 
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Offline alexvg

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #54 on: July 17, 2019, 11:37:34 pm »
By heaten it up with e.g. a heatgun.
90°C are enough, too high will damage it.
Slowly heaten up, then lift it on one side carefully with a razorblade or similar thin thing.
I've leaved the device running for 3-4 hours (the device's case is been hot). And I've removed the sticker with the back paper of a bandage (the non-adherent side or anything like that). It takes 20-30 seconds to remove it completely.
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2019, 12:12:53 am »
Thanks for heads up from Serg_77, firmware 00.01.01.04.08 is out.  It is currently only on the Chinese site, nothing on the international or US site yet. 

http://cn.rigol.com/File/ProductSoftWare/20190812/MSO5000(ARM)Update_00.01.01.04.08.rar

I downloaded the file, release note is surprisingly short compared to the last release.  Perhaps they dedicated all their firmware resources towards the MSO8000 launch.

It is unclear at this point on how it affects the "enhancements" developed by our dear forum members. 

In the update instruction, it states: "MSO5000 series digital oscilloscope does not support the downgrading operations."  If true, it is an one way street for the firmware changes.


v00.01.01.04.08 2019/08/02

      -Fixed system crashed when clicking Default.
      -Fixed 4CH option bug.
      -Fixed noise signal captured.
      -Improved the measure result updating rate.
      -Fixed accurate measurements not updated in ROLL

v00.01.01.04.04  2019/02/20

     - Optimized the operating experience of the local upgrade.
     
     - Added the 12-bit high resolution mode.
     - Added 500uV/div in vertical scale.
     - Added the SCPI command :MEASure:STATistic:ITEM CNT,<item>[,<src>[,<src>]]
       to reading the count of measure statistics.
     - The waveform can zoom out by drawing a rectangle. If you draw a rectangle
       from the top left to the bottom right, the waveform will zoom in. If you
       draw it from the bottom right to the top left(the opposite direction),
       the waveform will zoom out.
     - Added the GND coupling in channel.
     - Enriched the color options of the LA channels.
     - If the newest version is detected, a red dot will display in the Online
       upgrade menu.
       
     - Modified the waveform freeze problem in slow scan mode.
     - The boot time is reduced to less than 1 minute.
     - Improve the touch experience in the lower half of the touch screen.
     - Reduced the noise amplitude of the waveform.
     - Modified the problem of decode vanishing after moving signals.
     - Modified the error of digital waveform when adjusting the timebase after
       stop the sampling.
     - The :SYSTEM:SETUP command can successfully save and upload setting
       information in remote.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 12:16:39 am by NoisyBoy »
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2019, 09:20:01 am »
What a disappointment! After all this time and delays and only a .08 release???  :palm:
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2019, 05:29:30 pm »
Rigol told me, they´re focussing on the MS08000, after it´s release they will work on the firmware - So I am surprised, that a new firmware arrives so soon.
Don´t know what their intention is, feeding crumb for crumb maybe...

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #58 on: August 28, 2019, 07:42:33 pm »
Thanks for heads up from Serg_77, firmware 00.01.01.04.08 is out.  It is currently only on the Chinese site, nothing on the international or US site yet.

Still it isn´t avaible on US site or on rigol.eu ……
So does it means this is a beta ?


Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #59 on: August 28, 2019, 08:11:23 pm »
I noticed that as well, if I recall correctly, the same was true for the 04.04 firmware, there was a delay.

I doubt any company will issue beta firmware without expressly saying so on their main site, may be it is a soft launch, or there is a delay on website update for non-Chinese sites and they are waiting for some external firm to update them due to the language barrier.  Only Rigol would know the answer. 

In addition to Rigol's posted fixes, mabl had kindly shared that self-cal is now perfect, perhaps that's the most important fix for those with affected scopes.  I never had the self-cal problem on my scope, so I don't have a way to verify it.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #60 on: August 28, 2019, 09:06:00 pm »
Quote
if I recall correctly, the same was true for the 04.04 firmware, there was a delay.

You´re right, but imho it wasn´t so long.


Quote
I never had the self-cal problem on my scope

Me too and to be honest, nearly 100% of the known bugs are not of that kind that makes working with the scope impossible.

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #61 on: August 28, 2019, 11:30:05 pm »
Agreed, I have not experienced any stability issues with 04.08, but my use case is fairly limited compared to others.

Rigol might not have documented every fix the new firmware brings (take auto-cal for example).  It would be interesting to see if it addresses any of the other known issues the forum has identified so far.
 

Offline texaspyro

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #62 on: August 29, 2019, 02:39:15 am »
Is that bspatch .txt file a text file or has it been compressed with something and needs to be renamed and expanded?
 

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #63 on: August 29, 2019, 05:50:57 am »
Rigol told me, they´re focussing on the MS08000, after it´s release they will work on the firmware - So I am surprised, that a new firmware arrives so soon.

There's probably a lot of code that's common to the two. Fix something on the MSO8000 and it gets fixed on the MSO5000 as well.
 

Offline luma

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #64 on: August 29, 2019, 12:26:34 pm »
Is that bspatch .txt file a text file or has it been compressed with something and needs to be renamed and expanded?

That file should be ready to use w/ bspatch/bsdiff on your platform of choice.
 

Offline oliv3r

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2019, 10:16:38 am »
Quote
Maybe they´ve exchanged the fan.

Couldn´t resist any longer….
After open it up (without damaging the sticker…) I take a close look to the fan - Nothing.
No additional parts, no "fresh" solderpads, nothing....
So they must Exchange the fan - No, it´s the same Sunon MagLev as before, 12V 3000rpm.
So I switch the scope on - this is never 3000 rpm….
Measure the voltage at the fan-connector, 6.5Vdc.
This make sense, voltage is reduced for lower rpm.
But the "jittering" on the display of my fluke made me curious and so I plug in a probe and measure the voltage with scope:



Aha... ;)

Did you check the PCB for rework? Replaced resistor or something?

For both fan and display? I bet it's a super small change, so it's likely done by hand. Swap out two resistors is a trivial thing of course.

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2019, 06:18:37 pm »
Hi,

Quote
Did you check the PCB for rework? Replaced resistor or something?

I took only the case away, no further tear down, sorry.


Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #67 on: September 02, 2019, 01:13:32 am »
The Chinese Rigol main site just refreshed their entire page design, as part of this update, the firmware for MSO5000 removed the detail level (it is only listed as 00.01.01 now), but has in fact reverted back to 04.04 when you opened the rar file.

http://cn.rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/%E7%94%B5%E5%AD%90%E6%B5%8B%E9%87%8F%E4%BB%AA%E5%99%A8/%E7%A4%BA%E6%B3%A2%E5%99%A8/MSO5000/%E8%BD%AF%E4%BB%B6%E4%B8%8B%E8%BD%BD/DS5000(ARM)Update.rar

http://cn.rigol.com/Cn/Index/listView/catid/28/p/3.html

My personal suspicion is when they began the site redesign, they took the content from a certain point in time, and they migrated the entire (old) content to the new design during the switch over (the 8/22 date).  So now the content is out-dated, it may take them some time to catch up and refresh all the content on the new site.  If it is the case, it is not a good practice in site redesign, as one should have refreshed all the content before flipping over to the new site.

Martin72 has questioned why it took so long for 04.08 to make it to the US or EU site.  So there's always a chance that this firmware was pulled, I am sure we will see some clarity in the coming weeks as they continue their web content update.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #68 on: September 02, 2019, 08:57:37 pm »
Rigol support told me once in july, if there is a new firmware avaible they will inform me about(like they did it by the last).
Until now it doesn´t happen.


Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2019, 04:31:33 pm »
The Chinese Rigol site updated their version info, it is now 04.04 - consistent with the sites at other regions (which as Martin72 stated, never offered 04.08). 

So if it is not a web content error, they might have in fact pulled back the 04.08 update.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2019, 05:09:06 pm »
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2019, 12:11:18 am »
stmcore, thanks for the site.

That is exactly what not to do when it comes to web management, all the other sites are on 04.04, and you have one Chinese support site on 04.08.   |O

I surely hope they will do a better job in coding the next release of the firmware update. 
 

Offline Otopil

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #73 on: October 03, 2019, 11:14:38 am »

Hello, I've been following the Rigol5k threads for some time to prepare myself on buying a Rigol MSO5074. A week ago I sent Rigol support Europe the following question......
"
Dear recipient,
Can you please inform me about the most recent Hardwareversion number of the MSO5074 and the changelog of past hardware revisions.
"
I have not received an answer to this so I would like to ask this question in this forum so I can decide where to buy and what I can expect wrt hardwareversion and the importance of the changes.

Best regards,  Paul


 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #74 on: October 03, 2019, 12:52:16 pm »
Hi Paul,

In june I´ve send my MSO5 for modifiaction to rigol, it returns with following delivery note:


Offline Otopil

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #75 on: October 03, 2019, 05:31:00 pm »
Thanks Martin for your reaction. I read your notes on this and the improvements on noise and brightness seem important  to me. Therefore  I would like to be able to check the HW status when an MSO5K is delivered to me, especially as  the latest report on delivery  status in this thread shows that in July 2019 Rigol still delivered HW 1.00.000
Do you know of an objective indication that the hardware includes the improvements and whether this is indicate by a higher HW   versionnumber?
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2019, 05:58:24 pm »
Hi,

Some of the members here bought one with version 1.01., mine should be it too, after the mods:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-mso-5000-hardwaresoftware-revisions/msg2515140/#msg2515140
Why there is 1.02 in the delivery note, I must ask for it  - IMHO the modifications done are 1.01. .
So new scope comes with this Version, older or on stock with 1.00 but modificated - or not.
A clear difference between mod/no mod will be the fan noise.
HW 1.00 sounds louder and higher what the frequency concerns.
1.01. sounds "deeper", the frontend of the scope is getting warmer.
Display.....hard to describe…

Martin

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2019, 08:32:32 pm »
stmcore, thanks for the site.

That is exactly what not to do when it comes to web management, all the other sites are on 04.04, and you have one Chinese support site on 04.08.   |O

I surely hope they will do a better job in coding the next release of the firmware update.

Rigol.eu told me, the next "official" ( means it will be avaible at US and Europe site) fw update will come soon, in this month…..

Offline Otopil

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2019, 11:21:45 am »
Today the MSO5074 came in, according to the retailer directly from Rigol EU in Germany..........

Hardware 1.00.000
Firmware 00.01.01.04.04

Any noise is 'eh' noise but as I have no reference I cannot judge whether the fan is noisy.
Screenbrightness is sufficient on my bench where  no outside light is falling in.

I'm not going to bother whether Rigol has upgraded this MSO while in it's inventory but going  to enjoy exploring all it's functions and features.

Many thanks to all contributers on this forum


 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #79 on: October 10, 2019, 08:26:06 pm »
Rigol.eu told me, the next "official" ( means it will be avaible at US and Europe site) fw update will come soon, in this month…..

Given their track record, I would treat that as a pleasant surprise, but I'd rather not hold my breath for it  :)

Since there really hasn't been an official update in NA since February, the update, when it appears, would be a welcomed event.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2019, 09:05:04 pm »
I´m curious about the next updates - There aren´t no really big faults to clean, but there would be some nice to haves.
It was a longer time ago, so I´m not afraid to post it, as they told me once that bode plot will come.
Also my moaning about the same colour of EVERY math trace was forwarwarded to the R&D.
And finally the missed enhanced resolution function, as known by e.g. siglent and lecroy.
(It´s a filter, Hi-Res and enhanced resolution are two different pairs of shoes, this would be the reason why HR-mode by rigol models "looks" not the same as on other brands).
Whereby it could be not possible, they were not sure if the hardware could manage it.

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #81 on: October 11, 2019, 04:06:37 am »
As the MSO8000 is their flagship, I would say that anything that does not exist in the 8000 is unlikely to make a first appearance on the 5000.  So I am not expecting things like bode plot and enhanced resolution, unless Rigol really surprised us by over delivering the good news.

 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #82 on: October 11, 2019, 08:56:38 am »
As the MSO8000 is their flagship, I would say that anything that does not exist in the 8000 is unlikely to make a first appearance on the 5000.

By default I agree BUT they could also "experiment" in the little brother and then release in the flagship without hiccups.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2019, 07:40:09 pm »
If I understood it right, it´s the same platform (Ultravision II) for all models, so if one got a new feature, the others could have it too. (IMHO)

Quote
So I am not expecting things like bode plot and enhanced resolution

I´ve been told, the enhanced resolution filter function could be difficult to realize.
Maybe this is the reason, rigol never had it on their models.

Offline dermeister

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2019, 05:41:26 pm »
I've just received an MSO5074 with HW 01.00.00, Build 2019-02-20 from Tequipment. The screen does indeed seem pretty dim and the fan could be a bit quieter. Has anybody figured out what the differences are to HW 1.01 that make the screen brighter and fan quieter?
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2019, 07:20:50 pm »
That is interesting, I thought Rigol has updated all the scopes in dealer inventory based on others' comments.  Is it a new scope, or an open-box/demo units from clearance?  What are you comparing the brightness and fan noise to?

If you read Martin72 earlier posts, you would see even if Rigol has updated the old scopes with brighter screen and quieter fan, the hardware still remains 1.00 from the help screen.  User does not have a way to tell, and Rigol may track it with your serial number instead of hardware version. 

If it is a concern to you, I would suggest you contact Rigol to see if they can look up your scope by serial number to see if those updates are included. 
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2019, 07:30:56 pm »
I've just received an MSO5074 with HW 01.00.00, Build 2019-02-20 from Tequipment. The screen does indeed seem pretty dim and the fan could be a bit quieter. Has anybody figured out what the differences are to HW 1.01 that make the screen brighter and fan quieter?
I suggest you to contact rigol north america and they will ask you for the serial number to confirm if your scope has the LCD and fan noise fixed or not.  I received my unit back in late May and I noticed the LCD being OK and very low fan noise, compared to the first unit I had and returned in March.  I wrote Rigol and they confirmed that my unit had the fixes installed.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2019, 07:59:48 pm »
I think the HW version is directly tied to a new batch of Zynq FPGAs and is distinguishable in the MCU's Device DNA.

So far, just a theory...
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #88 on: October 22, 2019, 08:20:14 pm »
Quote
So far, just a theory...

Makes sense.
As I got my modified scope back, nothing has changed on the info screen.
I got "only" the confirmation on the delivery note.
And I´m very, very curious what they´d changed, may be I open up my scope again….
…….Meanwhile, the quieter fan noise could still annoying you, when the enviroment is calm, this deeper sound.... ;)
But this is nothing against the sound level of a lecroy wavejet.
This thing sounds really like ajet….

Offline ebclr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2019, 12:22:34 pm »
Do the logic analyzer on the scope is worth to buy the probe?
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #90 on: October 23, 2019, 07:08:37 pm »
Hi,

This is the thread about hard- and software revisions, better you post your question there:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2751050/#msg2751050

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #91 on: November 20, 2019, 09:00:56 pm »
20th November 2019...
Nearly a year has passed as rigol launched the MSO5.
And in this time, only one ("official") update was launched.
Whenever I´ve asked them about in this year, they told me "soon" or "next month".
Whenever the next upgrade arrives, it should be packed with "tons" of debugged things and new features - Anything else would be a disappointment.
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #92 on: November 21, 2019, 03:54:46 am »
I am keeping a low expectation for Rigol these days so I won't be disappointed. 

I noticed they made one change, if you visit the main Chinese site, they are now forcing you to your regional site based on your IP address.  Which makes 04.04 as the official release for the U.S.

The lack of firmware update seems to be a norm for many Chinese electronics.  I bought a Huawei laptop, it was a beautiful piece of hardware, but the firmware and the update utility was a mess, very much like the Rigol.  The update utility was known for being vulnerable for hacking and allowing others to gain access to the computer.  Different driver release shows up as current depending on where you go.  I quickly returned it and go back to my Apple Store and buy another MacBook Pro.  Even though I have to pay more, the level of support is simply not there for the Huawei. 

I ventured into the MSO5000 out of my curiosity for the current state of low cost Chinese test equipment, but the hidden "phone home" behavior to China is enough to convince me to stay with my tried and trusted Keysight.  I do hope they will release another update in the future to prove that they can compete with the top-Brands.  They need to do that if they are serious about moving upmarket in their offerings like the MSO8000. 
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #93 on: November 22, 2019, 10:59:13 pm »
Quote
The lack of firmware update seems to be a norm for many Chinese electronics.

Have a look at siglent…

Their last update for the SDS5000 series was fully packed with debugging things and additional features.
And how long is this one on the market ?

Quote
I do hope they will release another update in the future to prove that they can compete with the top-Brands.  They need to do that if they are serious about moving upmarket in their offerings like the MSO8000. 

This is the main point....
What would rigol be in the future, a deliverer for hobbyists or a global player.
Actual it seems the first, regardless of the models and their prices.
We got two new Lecroy models in october.
Each one costs 12K €, 13K €(WS9054, HDO6034A).
The rigol 8000 with 2Ghz cost nearly 14K €....
It´s bandwith is the only adventage against our new lecroys.
Everything else, EVERYTHING, is no compete.



Offline SimonH

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #94 on: November 23, 2019, 11:28:07 pm »
Addition to my post above: I'm not talking about real-time decoding here, of course, but about looking at a saved or captured waveform. Actually, it doesn't make sense for the decoder to re-decode all the time. I would expect the decoded pattern to freeze as the waveform and then just being panned and zoomed together with the waveform. This would be much more convenient.

One thing about the segmented memory (recording):

If I do a recording of several communication bursts, and then save the waveform (memory, not screen), it would be nice if all the bursts would be saved. The memory content, that is. Apparently, it only saves the burst I am looking at when saving.
 

Offline SimonH

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #95 on: November 24, 2019, 11:41:17 pm »
Oops, wrong thread. This is, where my latest post belongs to.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-rigol-mso5000-tests-bugs-questions/25/

Sorry.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #96 on: November 28, 2019, 11:01:07 pm »
Nearly a year has passed as rigol launched the MSO5.
And in this time, only one ("official") update was launched.

Shhh…..be aware of things to come….soon.  ;)

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #97 on: November 29, 2019, 10:46:22 am »
FRA or not ?  :popcorn:
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #98 on: December 01, 2019, 11:33:54 pm »
Hm ?

Offline geostep

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #99 on: December 02, 2019, 04:00:09 am »
What does FRA mean?

 :-//
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #100 on: December 02, 2019, 04:34:05 am »
Frequency Response Analyzer (AKA Bode Plot).  It is a tool that sweeps a sinewave signal from a starting to an ending frequency and plot the amplitude and phase response of a filter or an amplifier.
 

Offline nimish

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #101 on: December 05, 2019, 07:59:41 pm »
Anyone know how to upgrade the scope's HW revision at all? Can you ask the rigol NA distributers to do it?
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #102 on: December 05, 2019, 08:08:27 pm »
I send mine to rigol.eu(Puchheim, Germany), they´ve done the upgrade and sent it back.
In the delivery note was the new HW version stated, in the systeminfo menu on scope it remains the old version number.


Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #103 on: December 05, 2019, 08:20:06 pm »
Anyone know how to upgrade the scope's HW revision at all? Can you ask the rigol NA distributers to do it?

I have a "feeling" that HW rev is directly tied to the processor manufacturing batch. So, to change HW rev, one would need to change the board.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #104 on: December 12, 2019, 09:21:15 pm »
Nearly a year has passed as rigol launched the MSO5.
And in this time, only one ("official") update was launched.

Shhh…..be aware of things to come….soon.  ;)

Again, it has been postponed... ::)

First it was someday in may, then july, then "soon", then "in a couple of days", now it would be end of january next year.

Disappointing.


Offline maginnovision

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #105 on: December 12, 2019, 09:26:57 pm »
They probably haven't decided how much they're looking to fix yet.
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #106 on: December 13, 2019, 07:07:14 pm »
Sadly, this points to multiple failures within Rigol. 


Firstly, that it took over a year to release an official firmware upgrade for a new key products with identified issues (thought many are not crippling).
Secondly, that it releases different version of firmware to different markets (China and international site have different version from the U.S.)
Thirdly, that it failed to manage its personnel on what information should be released, creating repeated missed dates and customer disappointment.  Clearly, in this case the source has no control in the actual firmware development and he just broadcast the internal gossip to the outside world without consequence.
Lastly, creating undocumented phone-home behavior within its product and sending information to China without user's knowledge and consent.

I worked for one of the largest software company in the world.  We would have product roadmap and associated timeline for our products, I had tight rein on what my team could share.  It was bad that one missed a date, and unforgivable when one repeated it over and over.  I would not share any actual release date unless we were through beta and ready for GM code.  My enterprise customers had clear vision of our direction and that kept them happy and well informed.

Like most Chinese companies, they are decent hardware vendors.  But when it comes to service, software and firmware development, they are 1-3 decades behind the leading practice.  If this is important to you and take the total value/cost/service into consideration, the Rigol equipment is suddenly not such a good bargain.  Sadly, if you shop by comparing data sheet only, these deficiency is often overlooked until you have the equipment in hand and start using them for real work.

Depending on your expectation, your opinion would vary, but Rigol is a hobbyist equipment provider in my opinion.  They are cheap decent hardware, but I will not recommend them for top-tier commercial applications.  While the 8000 series is pushing up-market, they have a long way to go to convince someone like me to trade in the Keysight MSOX4000 for a 8000. 

The good news is it is not impossible to fix if Rigol realize these gaps and understand that it takes more than hardware to win customer loyalty.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 07:16:54 am by NoisyBoy »
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #107 on: December 13, 2019, 08:28:45 pm »
Quote
Like most Chinese companies, they are great hardware vendors.  But when it comes to service, software and firmware development, they are 1-3 decades behind the leading practice.  If this is important to you and take the total value/cost/service into consideration, the Rigol equipment is suddenly not such a good bargain.

Depending on your expectation, your opinion would vary, but Rigol is a hobbyist equipment provider in my opinion, they are cheap decent hardware, but I will not recommend them for top-tier commercial applications.  While the 8000 series is pushing up-market, they have a long way to go to convince why someone like me to trade in the Keysight MSOX4000 for a 8000. 

True words.
An example:
We (company where I´m working) bought 2 months ago 2 "bigger" scopes from lecroy (with 40% off, totally for 26000€).
A few days later the salesman asked me via email if everything is fine so far and I answered yes and so on and in an minor part of one sentence I had a little issue/wish what the UI concerns.
The next day I got mail from the R&D departement, we have noticed it and put it on the to do list for firmware updates…. 8)

The rigol MSO5 is a very good piece of scope, even when you buy it actually for 2000 with mostly all options including ( the actual promo).
And it could be even better when they fix/adding some things and with the specs ( huge memory, big screen, high samplerate, advanced triggerfunctions, advanced mathfunctions, etc) it musn´t hide from brands like tek and co., even when they´re more expensive.
But it´s actual nothing for professionals to work with.
Therefore I couldn´t recommend it as we were looking for new, priceworthy scopes for daily use in our departement.
For hobbyists this should be not an important point when looking for a new scope.
Yes, actual the postponing is a little bit disappointing for me as I wait for new additonal features like bode plot or different math-trace colours ( this is annoying, when everything has the same colour).
But that´s all, a little disappointment.
The scope is nevertheless a good thing worth buying.
For hobbyists.


Offline MegaVolt

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #108 on: December 15, 2019, 02:11:42 pm »
I observe the same behavior with Tektronix. Devices on the market for more than 5 years has a bunch of errors including a blue screen of death.

So this is more like the global problem of lack of competition in this area.
 

Offline rolfdegen

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #109 on: December 28, 2019, 10:48:48 am »
Hello friends

I bought my Scope MSO5104 in December 2019. On the picture you can see the current sales version of Rigol.





Greetings from Germany  :)

« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 11:11:19 am by rolfdegen »
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #110 on: December 28, 2019, 10:55:15 am »
Which Picture ?

Martin

Offline rolfdegen

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #111 on: December 28, 2019, 11:12:21 am »
Can you see the picture now ?
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #112 on: December 28, 2019, 12:11:45 pm »
yep  ;)

Offline rolfdegen

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #113 on: December 28, 2019, 12:29:15 pm »
Hallo..

I measured the volume of the fan with my smartphone S10+.

I positioned the microphone on the backside of the oscilloscope (10cm near of fan side).

Scope off: The volume is about 30dB (noise in my room).
Scope on: The volume is about 50dB.

I have check with tree android apps: iNVH Bosch, NoiseCapture

« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 12:42:15 pm by rolfdegen »
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Offline rolfdegen

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #114 on: December 28, 2019, 05:42:47 pm »
Frequency Response Analyzer (AKA Bode Plot).  It is a tool that sweeps a sinewave signal from a starting to an ending frequency and plot the amplitude and phase response of a filter or an amplifier.

That would be a desirable future because I need it for my electronics development.

Greetings from germany. Rolf
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #115 on: December 28, 2019, 09:49:29 pm »
Once they (rigol.eu) told me, bode plot will come - But nowadays I will only believe it when I can see it...

Quote
Scope off: The volume is about 30dB (noise in my room).
Scope on: The volume is about 50dB.

I´ve measured the noise too.
When I remember it right, it was +6dB additional to the enviromental noise.
Measured with a calibrated microphone.


Offline rolfdegen

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #116 on: December 29, 2019, 10:08:13 am »
Hallo Martin

Where exactly did you measure?

I positioned the microphone (Smartphone) on the backside of the oscilloscope (10cm near of fan side).
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 10:21:43 am by rolfdegen »
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #117 on: December 29, 2019, 11:20:08 am »
Appx 50cm, I thought it was more realistic.
Last measure (last pic) I ´ve made with as short as possible distance.


Offline rolfdegen

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #118 on: December 29, 2019, 01:46:17 pm »
I did a frequency analysis with and without my scope. The distance from microphone to the scope (backside) was approx. 50 cm.

Without Scope



With Scope


If you hide the low frequencies below 100 Hz, than confirms your measurement of + 6dB(A) with scope  :-+

Greetings from Wuppertal. Rolf


« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 01:55:32 pm by rolfdegen »
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #119 on: December 29, 2019, 03:39:48 pm »
Hi,

Something I´ve forgotten:
Measures were taken BEFORE the modifications were done by rigol.
Should repeat it...

Martin

Offline rolfdegen

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #120 on: December 29, 2019, 07:22:35 pm »
What modifications did you make?
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #121 on: December 29, 2019, 08:30:22 pm »
Not me, rigol.eu service did it - the upgrade to the newer hardware version with brighter screen and less noisier fan.

Send it to them and got it back inbetween 2 weeks.

Edit:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-mso-5000-hardwaresoftware-revisions/msg2515140/#msg2515140
« Last Edit: December 29, 2019, 08:32:40 pm by Martin72 »
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #122 on: February 01, 2020, 04:53:55 pm »
Well, now we are into February and I am glad that I did not hold my breath for the next firmware update.

Rigol has not released any firmware update for any of their products since November (there was only one in November for the RSA3000E).
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #123 on: February 15, 2020, 12:21:30 pm »
If I buy an MSO5074, what are the probes that come with it?  Are they 350 MHz probes?
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #124 on: February 15, 2020, 12:47:46 pm »
Well, now we are into February and I am glad that I did not hold my breath for the next firmware update.

ATM they are the ones holding their breath...
 

Offline sb42

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #125 on: February 15, 2020, 01:56:28 pm »
If I buy an MSO5074, what are the probes that come with it?  Are they 350 MHz probes?

Yes, it should come with four PVP2350 probes.
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #126 on: February 15, 2020, 01:57:30 pm »
If I buy an MSO5074, what are the probes that come with it?  Are they 350 MHz probes?

Yes, in my case it cames with the PVP2350 probes(4pcs.)
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #127 on: February 15, 2020, 05:04:09 pm »
Yes, these are 350MHz probes. 

Martin72, I read your frustration with the probes Siglent packaged with the SDS2000X Plus, I understand your sentiment especially compared to what Rigol has packaged with their scopes.  For low end scope like this, the odd for someone paying for a bandwidth upgrade is pretty low, perhaps that's why they packaged it with the low end probes.  It would be nice if they package the nicer probes with it.

Gandolf_Sr, the MSO5000 is a hobbyist scope compared to the Agilent you sold, so temper your expectation if you have not owned a Rigol scope before.  It is an OK entry level scope with good value, but firmware update is infrequent (which partially drove Martin72 to switch to the Siglent) and its is sluggish at times.  We also discovered hidden phone home behavior buried in the firmware, so I have to keep it on a physically isolated network as it can potentially serve as an attack vector for hackers.  But for the low end models, it is a value buy, the fully loaded model is overpriced.

If your intention is to get a comparable replacement to your Agilent, I would stay with the excellent Keysight MSOX4000A series.  The R&S RTA4000 with its 10-bit architecture is also intriguing, especially when you can get the all-in bundle promo at $12K right now.  But you are also talking about scopes where you pay more in sales tax than what the Rigol costs.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #128 on: February 15, 2020, 07:21:44 pm »

Martin72, I read your frustration with the probes Siglent packaged with the SDS2000X Plus, I understand your sentiment especially compared to what Rigol has packaged with their scopes.  For low end scope like this, the odd for someone paying for a bandwidth upgrade is pretty low, perhaps that's why they packaged it with the low end probes.  It would be nice if they package the nicer probes with it.
It's pretty clear which probes will be supplied here:
https://int.siglent.com/products-annex/sds2000xp/
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #129 on: February 15, 2020, 09:36:00 pm »
Yes, these are 350MHz probes. 

Gandolf_Sr, the MSO5000 is a hobbyist scope compared to the Agilent you sold, so temper your expectation if you have not owned a Rigol scope before.  It is an OK entry level scope with good value, but firmware update is infrequent (which partially drove Martin72 to switch to the Siglent) and its is sluggish at times.  We also discovered hidden phone home behavior buried in the firmware, so I have to keep it on a physically isolated network as it can potentially serve as an attack vector for hackers.  But for the low end models, it is a value buy, the fully loaded model is overpriced.

If your intention is to get a comparable replacement to your Agilent, I would stay with the excellent Keysight MSOX4000A series.  The R&S RTA4000 with its 10-bit architecture is also intriguing, especially when you can get the all-in bundle promo at $12K right now.  But you are also talking about scopes where you pay more in sales tax than what the Rigol costs.

Thanks, all advice appreciated.

As it happens, my main scope is a Keysight MSOX4054A with the full application bundle (legit); I bought it used from the eBay store and was lucky to get the App Bundle with it. I have several Agilent probes (passive and active) plus an Agilent LA probe set.  I also own a Rigol DS1054Z and MSO2072A.  I sold the MSO7104B as I never go over 500 MHz and I needed the money.  The MSO5074 is a kind of fill in to mess with.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #130 on: February 15, 2020, 09:44:50 pm »
Martin72, I read your frustration with the probes Siglent packaged with the SDS2000X Plus, I understand your sentiment especially compared to what Rigol has packaged with their scopes.  For low end scope like this, the odd for someone paying for a bandwidth upgrade is pretty low, perhaps that's why they packaged it with the low end probes.  It would be nice if they package the nicer probes with it.

Especially, when nowadays a 1400 bucks scope wasn´t low-end anymore, but this is off topic here.

@Gandalf_Sr

What excatly you want to do with the rigol, when you have the keysight already?


Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #131 on: February 15, 2020, 11:16:45 pm »
@Gandalf_Sr

What excatly you want to do with the rigol, when you have the keysight already?
Don't try to talk me down off the ledge, I want to jump!
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #132 on: February 16, 2020, 12:01:09 am »
Gandalf_Sr, I hate to burst the bubble.  But with the scopes you already have, I would be one who would pull you back on the roof. 

Unless Rigol release a big update with more reliable firmware and new features, I don't see what the MSO5000 has to offer that you don't already have.  Better save the money and spend it on a new equipment type you don't already have.  If you run out of ideas, buy a vintage piece with some historical significance that can serve as a conversation or display piece. 
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #133 on: February 16, 2020, 12:05:15 am »
Agreed. Or if you really want to try something new then look at the recent Siglent models.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #134 on: February 16, 2020, 02:30:03 am »
Agreed, my experience with SIGLENT on its firmware updates is much better.  Tautech is also building a lot of goodwill for the brand.  On the other hand, I have never seen Rigol acknowledging any of the issues we identified on its products.  If I have to choose between the two, SIGLENT wins hands down, just simply for the fact that they care about this forum has to say. 

 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #135 on: February 16, 2020, 09:55:00 am »
Hi,

Quote
If I have to choose between the two, SIGLENT wins hands down, just simply for the fact that they care about this forum has to say. 

Mhhhh….yes….but:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-rigol-mso5000-tests-bugs-questions/msg2490627/#msg2490627

This list is known by rigol and they wanted to give me a reply to the single points there, whether their were bugs or not, so I could report in the thread.
This should happen with the next firmware update, they told me once and months ago.
Well, now I doesn´t got a rigol anymore, the next update is still missing… I don't think I'm gonna get another answer. ;)

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #136 on: February 16, 2020, 10:08:17 am »
Clearly there are several card-carrying members of the Siglent Fan Club contributing to this thread; be aware I am not a member due to past bad experiences, especially when buying new models that had basic things wrong with them like missing components.

Thanks for all the efforts to talk me off the ledge though, I'm feeling the lovEE :D

Rigol may be slow to fix things but I have several pieces of Rigol gear and they all get the job done.

Part of my thinking goes like this; I am close to retirement and won't need high end gear like the MSOX4054A when I get there.  If I get the MSO5000 and gradually iron out the bugs, I could sell the Agilent scope (and probes) in a year or so.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #137 on: February 16, 2020, 10:31:00 am »
Clearly there are several card-carrying members of the Siglent Fan Club contributing to this thread; be aware I am not a member due to past bad experiences, especially when buying new models that had basic things wrong with them like missing components.
If there is anyone here who got really f***** by Siglent it is me. I wish my problems where a few missing capacitors and poor quality binding posts. Easy to fix. You have no reasonable cause to complain at all compared to me  8) . There is 2k euro in Siglent's pocket for which I got nothing at all. Still even I can't ignore Siglent oscilloscope firmware and update frequency has improved a lot since then. So one of their scopes is likely to be a replacement for your Keysight a lot sooner than a Rigol. Which in turn means you can free up the cash tied up in it a lot sooner (and get more).
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:16:29 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #138 on: February 16, 2020, 11:29:48 am »
Clearly there are several card-carrying members of the Siglent Fan Club contributing to this thread; be aware I am not a member due to past bad experiences, especially when buying new models that had basic things wrong with them like missing components.
If there is anyone here who got really f***** by Siglent it is me. I wish my problems where a few missing capacitors and poor quality binding posts. Easy to fix. You have no reasonable cause to complain at all compared to me  8) . There is 2k euro in Siglent's pocket for which I got nothing at all. Still even I can't ignore Siglent oscilloscope firmware and update frequency has improved a lot since then. So one of their scopes is likely to be a replacement for your Keysight a lot sooner than a Rigol. Which in turn means you can free up the cash tied up in it a lot sooner (and get more).
I sympatize with all that have been f***** by Siglent; so how do you reconcile the above with your previous post that "agreed" that I didn't need another scope but then said...
"...if you really want to try something new then look at the recent Siglent models"?

FYI, I unburdened myself of all my Siglent gear.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #139 on: February 16, 2020, 11:48:36 am »
At some point you just have to be practical and look at things on a case-by-case basis. I get that you may want to avoid Siglent gear out of principle. I always say: Principles cost money. OTOH there are plenty of people around here who are warning not to buy newly released test equipment because it will have flaws.

Rigol will likely take even longer to fix firmware so I don't see any added value of choosing Rigol over Siglent (to put it mildly). If your goal is to replace your Keysight scope then it is better to do that sooner than later because of devaluation.

My previous remark was aimed at the notion that you where seemingly looking for a piece of equipment to toy around with. Not replace an existing piece of gear. Probably it is a bit of both but getting some fixer-upper vintage gear may not be the best replacement for a higher end oscilloscope.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 11:51:28 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #140 on: February 16, 2020, 07:01:18 pm »
Everyday use will be slow, every knob turn, every button pressed... that accounts for lots of wasted time in my opinion.
 

Offline luma

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #141 on: February 18, 2020, 02:16:32 pm »
I think threads like this tend to attract the posters who have problems, so let me crawl out of the woodwork and say I've had zero problems with this scope in the past year of use.  The firmware update schedule isn't a problem for me, I don't want to be on a monthly update cycle for my test gear.  The screen size is just right - it leaves room for individual channel controls and if I want a bigger screen it has HDMI out (which I have connected but never need to use) and a functional web UI (which I find super handy for documenting things I'm seeing on the screen). 

UI response time is fine, and I feel like I got an incredible value for the money spent on this instrument.  Despite the complaints here, I suspect there is a sizable community of users who are going on about their day with this tool without experiencing the sorts of issues reported by a handful of users above.  That's not to detract from their own experience, rather to balance it out with a different viewpoint.

If I were going to make the decision again, I'd buy the 5000 again.
 
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Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #142 on: February 18, 2020, 02:27:45 pm »
I had the MSO5000 2 times, both times ended up selling it. For me it was just not worth $999, when I can have a similar user experience for $350 with the DS1054Z.  If you don't need all the extra features, you are just fine with the lower cost model.  It all depends if you had experience with other scopes or not.  I tried the Keysight 1000X, 2000X, 3000T, micsig, siglent SDS1104X-E and GW Instek 1054... any of these scopes offer better UI experience than the Rigol.
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #143 on: February 18, 2020, 04:35:00 pm »
I had the MSO5000 2 times, both times ended up selling it. For me it was just not worth $999, when I can have a similar user experience for $350 with the DS1054Z.  If you don't need all the extra features, you are just fine with the lower cost model.  It all depends if you had experience with other scopes or not.  I tried the Keysight 1000X, 2000X, 3000T, micsig, siglent SDS1104X-E and GW Instek 1054... any of these scopes offer better UI experience than the Rigol.
This is kind of silly, you're allowed to say you don't like the UI of the MSO5000 but saying a Keysight 3000T is "better" is  ludicrous.

The MSOX3034T (350MHz, 5GspS, with no free features) costs $10,759 and you could buy the bundle to add most serial decodes and the AWG for another $3,600

Assuming you didn't want to hack, right now you can buy the Rigol MSO5204 with a free upgrade to 350 MHz (350MHz, 8GspS) and free serial decode bundle for $2,699

Or you can pay $999 and hack it
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 04:44:18 pm by Gandalf_Sr »
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #144 on: February 18, 2020, 04:50:13 pm »
The 3000T is the most expensive one from the bunch. The MicSig and GW Instek scopes cost about half or even less compared to the MSO5000. The way I read TK's post: you can leave about $500 in your pocket and still get a scope which is more pleasant to use.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #145 on: February 18, 2020, 06:17:36 pm »
For him...

Offline nctnico

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #146 on: February 18, 2020, 06:20:24 pm »
Well, if you have had that many different types and brands through your fingers then you are entitled to have a more generic opinion because of the broader perspective.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #147 on: February 18, 2020, 08:17:24 pm »
Nobody has the absolute truth, so you must take any post as being personal to the poster.   I really would like to hear what Gandalf_sr says after experiencing the MSO5000.
 
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Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #148 on: February 18, 2020, 08:21:46 pm »
I did not buy the 2000x and 3000t at retail price. Actually i got them “broken” for a small fraction of the retail price and fixed them. You just need a lot of patience.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #149 on: February 19, 2020, 07:57:20 pm »
I just ordered a MSO5074 from Tequipment.net
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #150 on: February 19, 2020, 08:43:39 pm »
For it´s price you can´t go wrong with it - But judge for yourself when it´s arrived.
And let us know... :)

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #151 on: February 19, 2020, 09:28:45 pm »
For it´s price you can´t go wrong with it - But judge for yourself when it´s arrived.
And let us know... :)
Thanks, I will.  I have a plan worked out to implement a much cheaper LA probe/lead set that uses a single PCB and lower cost components than the DIY one detailed in this forum.  Estimated cost is about $20 in parts plus the cost of the PCB; maybe I'll start a new thread for it.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #152 on: February 19, 2020, 09:35:22 pm »
Quote
maybe I'll start a new thread for it.

This will be a very good idea and if you doing it, I will take it to my rigol 5000 thread list.. ;)
 
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Offline pmaggi

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #153 on: February 20, 2020, 02:07:07 pm »
Does MSO5000 support using a mouse for controlling it?
 

Offline MegaVolt

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #154 on: February 20, 2020, 02:15:53 pm »
Does MSO5000 support using a mouse for controlling it?
Probably yes. For the 7000 series, this is explicitly stated.
https://kr.rigolna.com/ds7000/

"Incorporating Touch, Traditional Button and Knob, Mouse/Monitor, Web Control and Remote Operation the 7000 Series Next Generation User Interface provides users 5 unique ways to interact with the instrument."
 

Offline MegaVolt

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #155 on: February 20, 2020, 02:22:14 pm »
https://int.rigol.com/NEWS/news/47.html

Customers requiring a larger display can take advantage of the native HDMI support to drive external displays and control the instrument with a mouse.
 

Offline tcottle

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #156 on: February 20, 2020, 03:29:31 pm »
I can confirm this.  My laptop uses a Logitech wireless mouse.  I unplugged the USB receiver from the laptop, plugged it into the front USB port on the Rigol (MSO5074) and turned it on.  The screen has a cursor and it is responsive to mouse input(!)  That was too easy ...  (power cycle is mandatory, it didn't work when I plugged the receiver in when the scope was on)
 
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Offline pmaggi

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #157 on: February 27, 2020, 07:32:30 pm »
There is a new firmware available at eu.rigol.com for MSO5000

v00.01.02.00.02  2020/02/25
       
     - Optimized the connection HDMI start problem optimized the connection HDMI start problem
     - Optimize the vertical gear, channel zero elimination error
     - Optimization of the inconsistency between SPI CLK and SDA names
     - Zoom mode square wave display in optimized 2S time base
     - Added command to get pass / fail times
     - Delete the default email account and password
     - Problems in remote instructions are optimized
     - Optimized 1K storage depth, waveform recording
     - The problem of too many stuck events in optimized decoding
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #158 on: February 27, 2020, 08:12:56 pm »
Wtf, this was it at all ?
Now I regret nothing.  8)

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #159 on: February 27, 2020, 08:16:55 pm »
Wtf, this was it at all ?
Now I regret nothing.  8)

Looks like a lot of use of the word optimize and no Bugfixes. No Bode plot either.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #160 on: February 27, 2020, 08:20:45 pm »
Bode Plot should come in may…….2019.
Hope for the owners, that the next fw will come very soon with lots of fixes and some benefits.


Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #161 on: February 27, 2020, 08:52:15 pm »
Quote
There is a new firmware available at eu.rigol.com

Actual only there, rigolna.com didn´t have it online.

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #162 on: February 27, 2020, 09:52:52 pm »
MSO7000 and 8000 also have new FWs...
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #163 on: February 27, 2020, 10:52:01 pm »
Not surprising...

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #164 on: February 27, 2020, 11:13:26 pm »
Does it even address any of the problems we identified in the MSO5000 bug topic? 
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #165 on: February 27, 2020, 11:29:55 pm »
     - Optimization of the inconsistency between SPI CLK and SDA names
I remember complaining about Rigol naming SPI signals with i2c signal names, not sure if this is the fix
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #166 on: February 28, 2020, 07:46:03 am »
BTW, I don't see it on the EU Rigol site, can you please share the link?
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #167 on: February 28, 2020, 08:05:08 am »
It is labeled as v00.01.02.00.02 but the date is from older ver.
Btw. current ver. is shorter than las one (66MB vs 67MB) . Is better packed or they have removed some code ?
 

Offline Martin72

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Offline MegaVolt

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #169 on: February 28, 2020, 08:15:52 am »
BTW, I don't see it on the EU Rigol site, can you please share the link?
Found on page:
https://eu.rigol.com/En/Index/listView/catid/28/tp/6/cat/7/xl/24
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #170 on: February 28, 2020, 07:57:28 pm »
Thanks for the link, their website is so messed up.  The webpage shows the update with a 8/22/19 date.  When I unpack the file, it shows v00.01.02.00.02  2020/02/25. 

Oddly, the update readme file completely skipped 04.08 and the handful of fixes in it, and Chinglish is back, I am trying to make sense out of a few of the changes:

     - Optimized the connection HDMI start problem optimized the connection HDMI start problem (I presume it is related to HDMI output)
     - Optimize the vertical gear, channel zero elimination error  (No idea what they mean, what is channel zero and vertical gear, is it related to reducing the noise floor when there is no input)
     - Zoom mode square wave display in optimized 2S time base (What is 2S time base, do they mean 2 second)

Even if we put aside how little it fixes, it is truly disappointing to see the level of care they put into the distribution and packaging of this fix. 
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #171 on: February 28, 2020, 08:56:27 pm »
The release notes are a copycat of the MSO8000 release notes.

Sighound36 installed the new FW in MSO8000 and noticed many improvements that are not listed in the release notes.

So, the 8000 notes are wrong or, the 5000 may also have some easter eggs.
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #172 on: February 28, 2020, 09:01:56 pm »
Therefore someone should check up the list for improvements.
Rigol once told me, they knew this list.


Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #173 on: February 29, 2020, 08:21:17 am »
Thanks for the info, I can certainly use some pleasant surprise from Rigol these days. 

The release notes are a copycat of the MSO8000 release notes.

Sighound36 installed the new FW in MSO8000 and noticed many improvements that are not listed in the release notes.

So, the 8000 notes are wrong or, the 5000 may also have some easter eggs.
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #174 on: February 29, 2020, 08:52:15 am »
The release notes are a copycat of the MSO8000 release notes.

Sighound36 installed the new FW in MSO8000 and noticed many improvements that are not listed in the release notes.

So, the 8000 notes are wrong or, the 5000 may also have some easter eggs.

I don't know if this is good news or not.
I am happy that there are improvements not listed but it gives us the impression of amateurism from Rigol....
Considering the work involved in fixing bugs, lsiting them properly is the least of things.

I can't wait to test all this but my MSO7000 has been going around for 6 days in Amsterdam so I think DHL has lost my package but I won't know until next week  |O
 

Offline thinkfat

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #175 on: February 29, 2020, 09:50:02 am »
I guess the MSO5000 is their loss leader. They will not put more effort into it than absolutely necessary. While it sells, that is.

Why they treat the 8000 with the same negligence is beyond me, though.

But this tells a story about how they develop their firmware. Normally, there is at least a ticketing system, or a workflow tool like Jira, combined with a versioning system for the code, both linked together. Or a combined solution like Gitlab. Nothing goes into the code that is not traceable with a ticket, and release notes are generated from the completed tickets.

Rigols firmware releases demonstrate none of the the above and the firmware quality reflects that.
Everybody likes gadgets. Until they try to make them.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #176 on: March 01, 2020, 12:23:59 am »
Hmm, I just got back from a cruise in the Caribbean and my MSO5074 arrived while I was away, I wonder what version of HW/SW I have - I will check and post back tomorrow.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline jjoonathan

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #177 on: March 01, 2020, 01:34:13 am »
It was the same story with the DS4000. The hardware was "belt and suspenders" (8x Nyquist sampling, hefty FPGAs, 3mm thick plastic, branded components, even machined heat sinks in the later ones IIRC)  but the firmware had big, glaring bugs that took forever to fix and even then would sometimes return in subsequent updates. Decodes didn't work in segmented memory mode until years after release, the knob acceleration was awful, then mediocre, then awful again, I'm pretty sure some of the "fancy" triggers straight up didn't work, and a number of very significant improvements to FFT and measurements for the DS1054Z never got back/up-ported.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #178 on: March 01, 2020, 10:40:50 am »
Hmm, I just got back from a cruise in the Caribbean and my MSO5074 arrived while I was away, I wonder what version of HW/SW I have - I will check and post back tomorrow.
Bad news I think; I turned on my new MSO5074 (purchased from Tequiment.net who, when I ordered, assured me that I would be getting the latest version) and it's hardware version 01.00.000 (firmware 00.01.01.04.04) and it appears to have the dim screen problem.  I stopped at that point and will contact Tequipment to ask for a replacement.

Any thoughts or comments?
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #179 on: March 01, 2020, 10:47:38 am »
Hm,

Firmware was released in august 2019 - my former 5074 (bought in 11/2018) had the hardware version 01.00.000 and was fixed by rigol in june 2019 what fan and display concerns.
Can´t believe you´re getting a really "old" one, they´d forgotten to fix it too.



Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #180 on: March 01, 2020, 11:04:39 am »
I just wrote Tequipment a message through the forum saying they need to priority-ship me a good one and RMA the one they sent; let's see how they respond.

[EDIT] I followed up with an email to their sales team.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 11:44:14 am by Gandalf_Sr »
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #181 on: March 01, 2020, 11:19:08 am »
Not good for Tequipment´s reputation! Do they really have no clue about old stock? Do they have any warehouse order management system at all?
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #182 on: March 01, 2020, 11:31:23 am »
I suspect they will make it right but it's this the kind of unnecessary BS that makes you not want to repeat such a buying experience for a $1,000 purchase. Reputations are earned over a period of time but can be quickly lost.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 11:39:29 am by Gandalf_Sr »
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Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #183 on: March 01, 2020, 01:19:10 pm »
If you are used to Agilent / Keysight scopes, the MSO5074 will look dim even with the fix.  I also received a version 1 hardware but LCD looked brighter than the first unit I had tried.  I emailed Rigol NA, they asked me for the serial number and they "confirmed" it had the LCD and fan fixes.  I am afraid you will have the same answer.  They have been out for more than a year and I don't expect them stocking very old stock.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #184 on: March 01, 2020, 01:29:21 pm »
If you are used to Agilent / Keysight scopes, the MSO5074 will look dim even with the fix.  I also received a version 1 hardware but LCD looked brighter than the first unit I had tried.  I emailed Rigol NA, they asked me for the serial number and they "confirmed" it had the LCD and fan fixes.  I am afraid you will have the same answer.  They have been out for more than a year and I don't expect them stocking very old stock.
Thanks. Who here in the US (or outside of EU) has ordered and received an MSO5000 that was higher than hardware Vn 01.00.000?
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #185 on: March 01, 2020, 01:36:24 pm »
Here's the screen shot of my scope, it says it was built Feb 20th 2019 at 16:20:00

Is my serial number earlier than yours TK?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 02:11:18 pm by Gandalf_Sr »
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Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #186 on: March 01, 2020, 01:52:27 pm »
Your unit seems to be archaic... my unit's serial number started with MS5A21110... yours starts MS5A21100...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 02:13:32 pm by TK »
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #187 on: March 01, 2020, 02:08:46 pm »
Thanks TK, looks like I got VERY old stock.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 02:11:51 pm by Gandalf_Sr »
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Offline delfinom

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #188 on: March 01, 2020, 02:17:35 pm »
Here's the screen shot of my scope, it says it was built Feb 20th 2019 at 16:20:00

Is my serial number earlier than yours TK?

That's the firmware build date, not the hardware build date.

The only visible hardware build date would be on the calibration paperwork in the box.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 02:22:02 pm by delfinom »
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #189 on: March 01, 2020, 02:55:36 pm »
Here's the screen shot of my scope, it says it was built Feb 20th 2019 at 16:20:00

Is my serial number earlier than yours TK?

That's the firmware build date, not the hardware build date.

The only visible hardware build date would be on the calibration paperwork in the box.
March 14, 2019 - 18 days less than 1 year ago.
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #190 on: March 01, 2020, 03:09:01 pm »
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #191 on: March 01, 2020, 03:22:27 pm »
Let’s see what you get as a replacement, there has been numerous reports for recent purchases in the U.S. to still be on the 1.00.00 hardware, due to the tariff war, Rigol must have stocked the U.S. market full of older inventory.  But I thought Rigol pulled all the hardware with the dim screen from inventory and updated them.  And BTW, you don’t know if the scope has been updated if it is 1.00.00, only Rigol will know, which is absurd.  They supposedly keep track of all fixes by serial number, just that they don’t share it with you unless you call for service.  And they don’t advertise the screen fix either for unaware owners.

So don’t expect the Infoline and service portal from Keysight, this is Rigol and one of many reasons why I advised against it as a brand.  As a owner, you have the right to know what fixes has been applied to your own scope.

And the screen becomes usable after fix, not bright, it is never R&S bright.  The Siglent is 500 nits I believe, like the iPad. 
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #192 on: March 01, 2020, 03:57:31 pm »
I thought that the ones that were updated in the EU had their hardware revisions changed to something like 01.01.000?

I turned it on again and played with the screen brightness, it's still pretty dim :(  The odd bit seems to be that the brightness control only changes the actual trace area, the surrounding menu and axes stuff seems to be stuck on the initial brightness.

Also the fan seems a little noisy but I have high frequency hearing loss.

Both these things are somewhat subjective without calibrated test equipment to measure brightness and sound level but I am going to fight this; I'm not going to be palmed off with NOS.
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Offline whatisthis

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #193 on: March 01, 2020, 04:40:18 pm »
Can anyone show photos of both (bright/dim) screen types? I have 01.00.000 hw but I have no problems with screen brightness.
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #194 on: March 01, 2020, 05:03:47 pm »
I purchased my unit from saelig, 30-day return policy on Rigol equipment and generous EEVBLOG member discount.  I suggest you to return the scope to tequipment and get one from saelig instead.
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #195 on: March 01, 2020, 06:36:42 pm »
Noisy fan and dim screen are the two known early hardware problems. Unfortunately, if you have a 1.00, it still is 1.00 after the fix, Martin72 had been through that, and Rigol will not tell you what they changed. That’s the frustrating part with Rigol.

If you have 1.01, you know you have the latest. If you have 1.00, you don’t know what you have. You have to call Rigol and give them the serial number to see if they can tell you, it is very 1980’s.
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #196 on: March 01, 2020, 06:53:39 pm »
I thought that the ones that were updated in the EU had their hardware revisions changed to something like 01.01.000?

I turned it on again and played with the screen brightness, it's still pretty dim :(  The odd bit seems to be that the brightness control only changes the actual trace area, the surrounding menu and axes stuff seems to be stuck on the initial brightness.

Also the fan seems a little noisy but I have high frequency hearing loss.

Both these things are somewhat subjective without calibrated test equipment to measure brightness and sound level but I am going to fight this; I'm not going to be palmed off with NOS.
Mine was bought on octomber 2019 (Batterfly - Europe) with HW version 01.00.000 but with lighter screen and lower speed fan. Brightness control indeed modify only signal trace, not the elements of UI .
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #197 on: March 01, 2020, 07:00:49 pm »
So hardware vn 01.00.000 but with improved brightness and quieter fan, right?
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #198 on: March 01, 2020, 07:08:29 pm »
You are right about brightness, the backlight is fixed, so there is no way to adjust the UI brightness. A year ago, I had suggested that changing the UI color could help the low nit screen to be more visible.  It is just poor color choice for the quality of screen they have.
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #199 on: March 01, 2020, 07:20:56 pm »
You referring to 1.01?  Rigol never disclosed what they changed. But fan and dim screen is part of it.

So hardware vn 01.00.000 but with improved brightness and quieter fan, right?
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #200 on: March 01, 2020, 07:34:10 pm »
So hardware vn 01.00.000 but with improved brightness and quieter fan, right?
Yes .
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #201 on: March 01, 2020, 07:55:23 pm »
And to make it more confusing:

Have a look at the pic with the delivery note of my turned back rigol after modification.

 
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Offline Commodore8888

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #202 on: March 01, 2020, 11:37:41 pm »
Hmmm.

I have one I picked up around late Dec, early Jan 2019. The fan isn't loud at all and the screen isn't too much off from the MSO7000s we have at base.
Waiting for a friend to get his 5000 so I can see side by side. Definitely not first

That or call Rigol 1980s style with a serial number  :P

Gotta wonder....how quickly did they change after the first production runs?
Mike D
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #203 on: March 02, 2020, 12:26:54 am »
Hmmm.

I have one I picked up around late Dec, early Jan 2019. The fan isn't loud at all and the screen isn't too much off from the MSO7000s we have at base.
Waiting for a friend to get his 5000 so I can see side by side. Definitely not first

That or call Rigol 1980s style with a serial number  :P

Gotta wonder....how quickly did they change after the first production runs?
What is the hardware version of that one Commodore8888?  I understood originally that the modified ones were >01.00.000 but some here are saying that is not always the case.
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #204 on: March 02, 2020, 12:27:15 am »
Remember Rigol never openly advertise there is a fix for these two problems, but if I recall correctly, they start shipping fixed unit around Feb/Mar in 2019.  Repair for sold unit came a little later, Martin72 will have the exact date as he had to wait to get his unit repaired.

And Gandalf_Sr, even the repaired unit would still show 1.00.00 in the About screen, other than the paper work, you can’t tell from the About screen on whether it has been fixed.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 12:30:01 am by NoisyBoy »
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #205 on: March 02, 2020, 12:41:49 am »
Remember Rigol never openly advertise there is a fix for these two problems, but if I recall correctly, they start shipping fixed unit around Feb/Mar in 2019.  Repair for sold unit came a little later, Martin72 will have the exact date as he had to wait to get his unit repaired.

And Gandalf_Sr, even the repaired unit would still show 1.00.00 in the About screen, other than the paper work, you can’t tell from the About screen on whether it has been fixed.
I just emailed Rigol NA asking about my specific unit.

[EDIT] I just heard from Evan of Tequipment.net who was apologetic and said they would sort it out, I'll report back when I hear more from them.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 01:14:19 am by Gandalf_Sr »
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #206 on: March 02, 2020, 01:35:00 am »
Sorry to hear you are already running into so many issues as a new owner.  I hope your dealer can help you sort it out. 

It would be interesting to see if Rigol truly keep track of everything by serial number.  If they offer to fix it, then I would suggest you get an exchange for a fresh one instead of getting a repaired one. 
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #207 on: March 02, 2020, 05:05:15 am »
Can't seem to get this SCPI command to work, but I may be missing something:

Code: [Select]
scope.query(':display:data?')       #returns screenshot in BMP format
or
scope.query_binary_values(':display:data?', datatype='i', is_big_endian=True)

Quote
Syntax :DISPlay:DATA?
Description Queries the bitmap data stream of the currently displayed image.
Return Format The query returns the binary data stream of the screenshot in ".bmp" format.

Getting timeout with even a large wait value (100s).
If you use the web interface you can grab a 1024x600 PNG easily. Also DG800 uses PNG and works (although the command is different read_raw(), which gets some hundreds of bytes?).

v00.01.02.00.02

edit:
- Set the time base to 1us
- Set acquisition mode to Averaging (any number)
Might get a slight buzzing noise from that :D. Doesn't show up at any other mode I can see.

edit2: :LA:TCAL command still doesn't appear to be working, so not sure what SCPI command they fixed.

edit3: :source:outp1:state? returns 1 or 0, not ON or OFF as stated in the manual
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 06:18:45 am by thm_w »
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Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #208 on: March 02, 2020, 05:12:55 pm »
I've said this before: I think HW 01.00 and HW 01.01 differ in (at least) the Zynq and/or ASIC batch, but not necessarily in the noise/brightness of screen.
 

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #209 on: March 02, 2020, 11:04:19 pm »
I've been in contact with Rigol USA - they claim not to recognize my serial number!  They also said this...
Quote
You may find this hard to believe but there is no difference between 01.00 and 01.01.  I know as we we were confused as well.  But there appears to be a version number reporting error in FW that was identified in April/May of last year.  The HW has not been updated since mfg date in December of 2018.
So what did they do to the units in the EU such as Martin's that were 'fixed' and came back with brighter screens, quieter fans, and notes to support that change? They did however offer me an equipment swap in coordination with Tequipment...
Quote
We have told Tequipment that we will support a swap if you choose but you have the latest HW and I would expect anything dramatically different with the replacement.
I think there's a typo in there, it should be I would NOT expect anything dramatically different.... Given all the uncertainty, I have asked for a swap to an up-to-date unit and that is now in process.  They will ship me a new one and have sent me an RMA for the old one.
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #210 on: March 03, 2020, 01:18:06 am »
Wow, that's worse than I thought.  If they cannot recognize the serial number of a scope sold by one of their own AD, it only shows how poor their own record and inventory management system is.  It may work for the market of $300 scopes, but they definitely are not ready for the $1000+ market, let alone the $10K market they hope to break into.  Can you imagine if you run a lab and you pay $13K for a top shelf MSO8000, and that's the answer you get from Rigol! 

As I said before, I don't think they want to admit or advertise the fact that some scopes have dim screens and loud fans and have a massive warranty claim (and not able to tell which scopes are affected by owners only make the matter worse, as it is so subjective and all of us would always want an even brighter screen and quieter fan).  If they cannot track which serial number contain the updated scope, can you imagine the nightmare if numerous owners demand them to check their scope to ensure it has been updated.  So the "easy" solution would be to claim there has never been any update to avoid having to do any upgrade to sold scopes.  I tend to agree with tv84 that there is indeed an underlying hardware change at the component level, if hardware is indeed identical since day one, how can firmware report different version numbers by scope, and the fact they still have not fixed it in 10 months and two firmware refreshes to report only one version of hardware as they claimed.


 :palm:

Gandalf_Sr, no one has ever taken a picture of a dim display scope next to an updated scope.  If your first scope is indeed from old stock prior to update, you will be the first one who can provide the before/after comparison.  In any event, hopefully the replacement would be a scope that has a <11 month old calibration.  Based on what Rigol publish below, it is perhaps reasonable to expect a cal <180 days old.

This from Rigol:
All Instruments Products come with a Factory Calibration Certificate

Traceable to the International System of Units (SI).  RIGOL certifies that the product meets or exceeds published measurement specifications and has been calibrated using standards traceable to National Metrology Institutes (NIST, NIM, NPL,PTB).  The policies and proceedures used at the RIGOL facility are based on ISO9001 & ISO/IEC17025:2005.

Recommended Instrument Calibration Intervals are identified in the corresponding product datasheet and user manual.

RIGOL has determined that the factory calibration of our instruments are not significantly affected by storage of up to 180 days before first-time use.  Cal Interval should start at the time the unit is placed in service OR 180 days past the "Date of Calibration" on the certificate received with the unit.  (note: there are several exceptions to this.  Please see your instrument's Calibration Certificate for the specifics of your product.)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 04:08:59 am by NoisyBoy »
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #211 on: March 03, 2020, 10:10:26 am »
@NoisyBoy
Thanks for the input.  I reached back out to Rigol about my serial number not being recognized and they came back saying when they originally cut and pasted the Ser# into their system it didn't come up but when they typed it it was recognized.

I won't be able to do a side by side as I'm having to cover the cost of the new one on my credit card and will only get the refund for the old one when it gets back so the old one is going back today - I asked Tequipment for some kind of priority shipping, 2 or 3 day on the new one.

The calibration date is an excellent point but Tequipment have stated from the day I complained that they never intended to send me an old one and have been apologetic.

So, as predicted, Tequipment are trying to fix the problem; they have always acted with integrity when I've bought from them and I still have some loyalty towards them.

MSO5000 owners are still left with the suspicion that Rigol is not publicly acknowledging that there was any issue with the early models regarding screen brightness or fan noise; and then there's the long wait for firmware updates........

I have designed a set of PCBs for the cheap LA probe hardware, the thread I started on it is here; I am waiting for a parts delivery from Digikey so I can check some footprints before ordering the PCBs. There will be a passive, 4-layer (LVDS) adapter PCB that connects the MSO5000 to two 0.1" headers each carrying 8 channels.  There are 2 identical, 2-layer probe PCBs which use 8 channel voltage level translators feeding into 2 x LVDS driver ICs that push the signal into the ribbon cables to the Adapter PCB.  The probe PCBs can be fitted with one of two different voltage level translators; one allows a VccIO range of 0.65 - 3.6V and the other allows 1.6 - 5.5V, you can have one of each if you want to.  Total cost for the whole setup is about $25 in components plus the cost of the PCBs - maybe another $20.  I deliberately kept it at 0603 and TSSOP (ICs with legs) so that it can be hand-assembled.
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #212 on: March 03, 2020, 03:58:25 pm »
X2 on TEquipment, they have always been excellent for me as well, I just ordered some LeCroy accessories from them and their prices on LeCroy are very good.

I look forward to seeing Rigol get your equipment issue sorted out, so you can have everything working.  Sorry to hear about what you had to go through and I look forward to seeing your design on the logic probes.
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #213 on: March 03, 2020, 07:13:07 pm »
The last FW update (v00.01.02.00.02) must have just been a rush to patch the email thing, or for a major customer that needed the mask test fixed. Apparently more releases in June:

Quote
The product line has told us to expect firmware to be released for both the  MSO5 and DG8 in June.

I'm guessing the actual features we expect (hi-res, bode, etc) were a lot harder than thought or their software team resources are limited. Shame they keep NA support in the dark.
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #214 on: March 03, 2020, 09:00:48 pm »
Quote
I'm guessing the actual features we expect

For a year or more….First they said, bode ( for example) comes with one of the next updates (lol)in may 2019.....
Waiting, waiting, waiting….then they told me, they´re putting all their energy for releasing the mso8000 and after this is done, an update will come.
Waiting, waiting, waiting…..

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #215 on: March 03, 2020, 10:33:12 pm »
Bode plot is coming...
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #216 on: March 03, 2020, 11:05:51 pm »
Bode plot is coming...
So is Christmas!
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Offline pmaggi

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #217 on: March 04, 2020, 11:10:25 pm »
New firmware 00.01.02.00.03...
rar file seems to be corrupted, I couldn't open it
 
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Offline whatisthis

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #218 on: March 04, 2020, 11:19:59 pm »
New firmware 00.01.02.00.03...
rar file seems to be corrupted, I couldn't open it

The beginning of the file does not look like a rar or zip archive
 

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #219 on: March 04, 2020, 11:41:48 pm »
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #220 on: March 04, 2020, 11:43:25 pm »
I think that's Rigol's way to show they do release new firmware on a frequent basis  :-DD

Seriously if they cannot even upload a patch in the right format or one that works, that leaves me little if any confidence in their ability to produce quality firmware/software.  How much more messed up can they get these days?

Perhaps I should not complaint, as for the US market, they are still posting the 04.08 version from last summer as their latest.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #221 on: March 04, 2020, 11:52:36 pm »
If you are used to Agilent / Keysight scopes, the MSO5074 will look dim even with the fix.  I also received a version 1 hardware but LCD looked brighter than the first unit I had tried.  I emailed Rigol NA, they asked me for the serial number and they "confirmed" it had the LCD and fan fixes.  I am afraid you will have the same answer.  They have been out for more than a year and I don't expect them stocking very old stock.

I took delivery of a 1.01.000 hardware version from Telonic in the UK a few weeks back. Fan noise is very good (and I'm known as being bloody fussy about fan noise) and the brightness is perfectly adequate - I've currently got the grid and trace brightness down at 50% and that's quite comfortable. Nearly forgot - build date on the factory documentation: end of July 2019.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 11:56:20 pm by Cerebus »
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #222 on: March 05, 2020, 10:17:07 am »
My replacement MSO5074 is supposed to arrive today.  Like the first one, it shipped from Oregon which is weird given that I bought it from a company based in New York - for those who are geographically challenged, Oregon is on the West coast and New York is on the East coast; approximately 3,000 miles apart.

I'm a bit worried that the serial number of the 'new' one will be within 3 of the old one, like I'm getting the next one off the stack of NOS Rigols.

I'll let you know...
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Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #223 on: March 05, 2020, 11:40:02 am »
Rigol North America is based in Oregon, so it is being drop shipped from Rigol directly... what about the first unit?  Did it also came from Oregon?
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #224 on: March 05, 2020, 12:02:59 pm »
Rigol North America is based in Oregon, so it is being drop shipped from Rigol directly... what about the first unit?  Did it also came from Oregon?
Yes, the first unit shipped from Oregon too.  Given that I was in contact with Rigol (as was Tequipment) about the new-old-stock (NOS) MSO5074 I received, I now have a much better feeling that I'll be getting an up to date unit.

But it's interesting to consider that Tequipment may just be a web store front who simply broker deals that get fulfilled by other suppliers and OEMs.  That also suggests that it was Rigol, not Tequipment, that tried to dump a NOS item on me.
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Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #225 on: March 05, 2020, 12:11:35 pm »
Did you take good pictures of your previous MSO5074 screen ?
It could be interesting if you could do the same with the new one in the same conditions  :-+
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #226 on: March 05, 2020, 06:44:55 pm »
Did you take good pictures of your previous MSO5074 screen ?
It could be interesting if you could do the same with the new one in the same conditions  :-+
So the New MSO5074 arrived and it's way newer.  The new serial number is MS5A21340XXXX, the hardware is 01.01.000, the firmware is 00.01.01.04.08, and the cal date is 8/27/2019.  I've taken a picture but it's hard to say that the new one is brighter, a little perhaps, it does seem quieter though.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 06:50:06 pm by Gandalf_Sr »
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #227 on: March 05, 2020, 06:50:57 pm »
Couldn't get the second picture of the new scope to attach so here it is
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #228 on: March 05, 2020, 07:11:11 pm »
Glad you finally get a fresh scope, this also serves as a warning to other buyers in the US, escalate with your AD before shipment so you don’t get the old stock.  I bet there are other unsold old stock in their warehouse.  I was lucky that mine arrived with a less than 30 day old cal, but that was when the scopes were back ordered.

If those old stock is functionally equivalent to the newer stock, the least Rigol can do is to do a fresh cal before shipment.
 
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Offline whatisthis

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #229 on: March 06, 2020, 12:17:10 pm »
New firmware 00.01.02.00.03...
rar file seems to be corrupted, I couldn't open it

They re-uploaded that file  :palm:

Code: [Select]
v00.01.02.00.03 2020/02/27
     - It solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data, and solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #230 on: March 06, 2020, 08:56:39 pm »
They re-uploaded that file  :palm:

Code: [Select]
v00.01.02.00.03 2020/02/27
     - It solves the error of SCPI instruction reading LA channel memory data, and solves the error of SCPI instruction reading LA channel memory data

In chinese its just the first sentence, so a copy paste translate error (解决了scpi指令读取LA通道内存数据错误).

How they can release a firmware update release in 2 days? weird.. Not to mention almost no one is going to be using that feature.
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Offline Sergey Astakhov

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #231 on: March 07, 2020, 01:52:50 pm »
In Int site there is still a corrupted version.
In EU site the file now looks good.
Direct link: https://eu.rigol.com/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/DS/%E8%BD%AF%E5%9B%BA%E4%BB%B6/MSO5000(ARM)Update00.01.02.00.03.rar
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #232 on: March 07, 2020, 04:32:42 pm »
Then we are still on 04.08 in the US, it is a mess.  Why have multiple regions on their site when they cannot maintain it.

BTW, as reported in the MSO5000 bug topic, some found their channel 3 come on even without signal when you press Auto, a new bug they introduced in the new firmware.  It is a nuisance and you must evaluate if you want this before you upgrade.  You will have to turn off channel 3, rescale the other channels and offsets. 

So my suggestion is unless you have a problem that you know the 02.0x release fixes, it is better to stay with the 04.0x firmware.  At least in my case, the new firmware does not fix anything and only introduces this new problem.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 04:48:23 pm by NoisyBoy »
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #233 on: March 07, 2020, 04:53:56 pm »
What Rigol needs is there own version of Tautech, to abuse, badger, strong arm and generally navel graze there way to a positive result.

A brand ambassador to look after most things which are realistically possibly, we all get frustrated with our test equipment from time to time especially with the newer equipment relying heavily on Processor / PC driven hardware so issues will arise, even the LeCroy we have has a couple of bugs I found, did I worry a forum no,I just make observations to the relevant parties, how long will it take? Who knows, though not as long as Rigol one would suspect!


But if have a customer care department that really wishes to make that companies products as good as possible given the various price points then Rigol should up their game without question. The have some good hardware just not the understanding of the firmware and demographic to gain total market place  confidence imho.

Rather than a whinge fest, lets make a positive step to find decent working solutions to 'help' Rigol to understand the error of the current methodology.

Just my tuppence and hopefully not  :horse:

All I can comment is if our company ran its customer service and back up like Rigol we would not have a business to run within 2 months!.

Come on Rigol get your house in order and employ some decent code monkeys and customer relations staff, you business will be more trust worthy and potential customers will increase YMMV

I am not Rigol bashing just making observations, we have seven pieces of Rigol test equipment so even I feel its time for Rigol to pull its self together

« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 05:04:35 pm by Sighound36 »
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #234 on: March 07, 2020, 06:51:10 pm »
What Rigol needs is there own version of Tautech, to abuse, badger, strong arm and generally navel graze there way to a positive result.
A couple of years back they invited me onboard and I declined, if again today the answer would remain the same.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #235 on: March 07, 2020, 11:26:53 pm »
Has anyone here loaded and tried the new firmware vn 00.01.02.00.03?

Is there anyone who can give an objective report on it?
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #236 on: March 07, 2020, 11:54:22 pm »
Has anyone here loaded and tried the new firmware vn 00.01.02.00.03?

Is there anyone who can give an objective report on it?

Not yet. I'm afraid I'm being a cowardly custard and waiting for someone else to try it.

At the moment my MSO5000 is in a tangle of cables actually doing some work, so I've got a good reason to delay.  That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

Look, I'm not even fibbing, taken just now:

945310-0
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 11:59:25 pm by Cerebus »
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #237 on: March 08, 2020, 12:30:56 am »
Hey, looks like you got the outrageously-priced LA probe set there!  I used to be a Brit before I gave it up so I understand your banter and you're clearly not fibbing.
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #238 on: March 08, 2020, 12:55:31 am »
Hey, looks like you got the outrageously-priced LA probe set there!  I used to be a Brit before I gave it up so I understand your banter and you're clearly not fibbing.

I did. I figured by the time I'd spun up a board, bought some connectors and so on to make my own that I'd have spent most of the overpriced price of the probe set. I decided to bite the bullet and get to use the thing now rather than wait until I'd fabricobbled together a probe set. As my next project involves an FPGA I thought that it would be nice to have the LA functionality on hand.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #239 on: March 08, 2020, 01:51:05 am »
From a time perspective, I've spent thousands of dollars on my design for an MSO5000 LA probe.  Maybe it will be a dud but, if I succeed, I'll have a design that can get close to the limits of the MSO5000 and cost a fraction of the PLA2216. The PCBs are ordered and I already have all the components.

Wish me luck.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #240 on: March 08, 2020, 02:11:42 am »
Luck!
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline thmjpr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #241 on: March 08, 2020, 04:23:11 am »
Here is my early stage Bode plot software: https://gitlab.com/thmjpr/mso5000-gui
I based it off of a post from timber23 here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2425551/#msg2425551

Still need to add: relative plots, dB units mode, csv output, TCPIP/USB selection, etc.
May require some knowledge of python to run, the SCPI IP is hardcoded currently. But can easily run on windows on Pycharm.

Attached is example plot from buffer board (opamp THS3201).
Input: blue, 1Vpp
Output: green, 2Vpp

Internal generator seems to drop off at about 15MHz.


« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 04:26:32 am by thmjpr »
 
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Offline thmjpr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #242 on: March 08, 2020, 05:41:01 am »
One interesting finding, the bandwidth seems to vary depending on selected vertical scale:
- 100mV and 200mV/div have higher amplitude at > 400MHz, -3dB only hits at ~640MHz, but its bumpy
- 50mV, 0.5V/div, etc. have amplitude drop off as we've seen in other threads at ~450MHz

I don't know if this is peaking in the filter design, or some different filter is selected in software, etc. I would say its a problem with my source, but, its too consistent, it should have peaking at all vertical scales not just some.

Range is 250-650MHz, 100mV/div, 0.5Vin:
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 05:43:03 am by thmjpr »
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #243 on: March 08, 2020, 12:31:25 pm »
One interesting finding, the bandwidth seems to vary depending on selected vertical scale:
- 100mV and 200mV/div have higher amplitude at > 400MHz, -3dB only hits at ~640MHz, but its bumpy
- 50mV, 0.5V/div, etc. have amplitude drop off as we've seen in other threads at ~450MHz
For the lower ranges the signal needs to be amplified in the osciloscope's front-end. It is very normal for a DSO to show different frequency versus amplitude graphs although the DSO should meet the minimum bandwidths. When I do a DSO review I measure the bandwidth at a low v/div value and a medium v/div value.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 01:57:58 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #244 on: March 08, 2020, 01:45:31 pm »
Here is my early stage Bode plot software: https://gitlab.com/thmjpr/mso5000-gui
I based it off of a post from timber23 here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-16-bit-function-generators-dg800900-series/msg2425551/#msg2425551


(Attachment Link)

Thank you for your work .  :clap:
I was able to run it .
Setup for PyCharm was a mess because I have already VS Code installed .
I think is good to add on line 123 - self.buttonStart.setEnabled(True) to be able to restart without close/open the application.
Waiting for another version to test , when you will have time to work on it.

Thank you !

« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 02:09:26 pm by skander36 »
 
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Offline thmjpr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #245 on: March 09, 2020, 12:19:36 am »
I will add some features, although for now the oscilloscope is in pieces :D

Looking for tips on component values for the input compensation circuit mentioned here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/review-rigol-mso5000-tests-bugs-questions/msg2897906/#msg2897906

Lx, Cx and Rx are the unknown components. Lx is very small, 4 turns on an inductor (thanks to Daves teardown). Maybe 0.4uH.
Rx and Cx I'm unsure of, I suspect the capacitor is physically large for high voltage rating (100V?).

The various paths into the ASIC seem to use the same components as the MSO7000 but they are unmarked so no way to know yet. Why there are various paths too, seems like they may be switched in depending on scale or timebase?
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #246 on: March 09, 2020, 12:55:07 am »
Ohhh, I like the idea of getting way more bandwidth by adding 3 SMT components per channel; you are a brave person.

Hope you don't  :-BROKE your scope.
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Offline egonotto

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #247 on: March 09, 2020, 01:12:02 am »
Hello Gandalf_Sr,

god luck, have fun.


Best regards
egonotto
 

Offline rolfdegen

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #248 on: March 13, 2020, 04:25:48 pm »
The latest Firmware



Greetings from germany. Rolf
Electronics developer
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #249 on: March 13, 2020, 05:32:32 pm »
00.01.02.00.03 is the latest .
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #250 on: March 13, 2020, 05:34:30 pm »
02.00.03 is the latest, see the EU or int firmware download site. 

If you have a signal only on Ch 1, and all the others open, and press Auto, does your channel 3 also come on with just noise?
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #251 on: March 14, 2020, 05:17:59 pm »
I got my budget LA probe system working, only tested channels 0-7 up to 10 MHz so far.  Check out my thread for details (updated pics are in the second post).
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #252 on: March 14, 2020, 08:18:49 pm »
Nice!  Love to see more update as you move along in your project.  Perhaps that would allow more people to use the LA feature in the scope, as I don’t recall seeing many posts from actual Rigol LA owners.
 

Offline sb42

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #253 on: March 14, 2020, 08:28:10 pm »
02.00.03 is the latest, see the EU or int firmware download site. 

If you have a signal only on Ch 1, and all the others open, and press Auto, does your channel 3 also come on with just noise?

Yes if there's an open probe connected to CH3. No if the probe is disconnected or shorted, or if the retractable hook tip is detached. So YMMV I think.

This is on 00.01.02.00.02; not entirely convinced that 01.01.01.04.08 was different.

Edit: forgot to mention - MSO5074, hw rev 01.01.000.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 08:54:04 pm by sb42 »
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #254 on: March 14, 2020, 08:38:28 pm »
02.00.03 is the latest, see the EU or int firmware download site. 

If you have a signal only on Ch 1, and all the others open, and press Auto, does your channel 3 also come on with just noise?

Yes if there's an open probe connected to CH3. No if the probe is disconnected or shorted, or if the retractable hook tip is detached. So YMMV I think.

This is on 00.01.02.00.02; not entirely convinced that 01.01.01.04.08 was different.

Just tried this on mine - 01.01.01.04.08.

Attach probes to 1 & 3. 1 connected to cal out, 3 floating, all channels off. Hit Auto, chans 1 & 3 come on.

Same setup, probe 3 floating but hook tip removed (i.e. all but the last ~3mm of tip shielded) only chan 1 comes on.

So yeah, not a new bug in 00.01.02.00.02, but just the auto setup being very sensitive to the presence of even a small signal on a channel. Repeated the same experiment with chans 1 & 2 - exactly the same result.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #255 on: March 14, 2020, 08:55:31 pm »
Hey guys, thank you so much for the feedback and datapoint.  I did not involve any probes in my tests, channel 3 was floating with nothing attached, channel 1 was connected to a HP 50 ohm pass through resistor to an AWG.  Never had this problem before in 04.04 and 04.08. 

Let me run a few more tests on it with the Rigol probe attached to channel 3 to see what happened.  I can also test it with the 500 MHz passive probes I got from the Keysight and LeCroy scopes to see if that makes any difference.
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #256 on: March 14, 2020, 09:05:08 pm »
Is not about probes .
In 00.01.02.00.02 the channel 1&3 are activated without any probes .
In 01.01.01.04.08 this is not happened .
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #257 on: March 15, 2020, 07:54:58 am »
You are right, probes made no difference, all my probes do that, from the $47 Rigol probe to the $400+ Keysight probe.  My channel 3 opens when I push Auto with or without the hook tip, and even with probe shorted to ground. 

It is a random event, sometimes channel 3 opens, sometimes it doesn't, but it opens most of the time.  It may not be firmware related, especially given what Cerebus has shown, but my scope definitely have never done that before the upgrade. 

I will run a Calibration tomorrow to see if it makes a difference.
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #258 on: March 15, 2020, 08:30:34 am »
You are right, probes made no difference, all my probes do that, from the $47 Rigol probe to the $400+ Keysight probe.  My channel 3 opens when I push Auto with or without the hook tip, and even with probe shorted to ground. 

It is a random event, sometimes channel 3 opens, sometimes it doesn't, but it opens most of the time.  It may not be firmware related, especially given what Cerebus has shown, but my scope definitely have never done that before the upgrade. 

I will run a Calibration tomorrow to see if it makes a difference.

My fault,  reply was for Cerebus .
The callibration makes no difference . I was doing three times.
But when you downgrade to 00.01.01.04.08 things are back to normal. Upgrade to 00.01.02.00.02 or 00.01.02.00.03 again and channel3 arise uncalled .
So the sollution is back to 00.01.01.04.08 waiting for next update .

 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #259 on: March 15, 2020, 09:36:12 am »
I've stayed at 00.01.01.04.08 but what were the supposed advantages of 00.01.02.00.0x?
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Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #260 on: March 15, 2020, 10:47:35 am »
v00.01.02.00.03 2020/02/27
     - It solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data, and solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data

v00.01.02.00.02  2020/02/25
       
     - Optimized the connection HDMI start problem optimized the connection HDMI start problem
     - Optimize the vertical gear, channel zero elimination error
     - Optimization of the inconsistency between SPI CLK and SDA names
     - Zoom mode square wave display in optimized 2S time base
     - Added command to get pass / fail times
     - Delete the default email account and password
     - Problems in remote instructions are optimized
     - Optimized 1K storage depth, waveform recording
     - The problem of too many stuck events in optimized decoding

 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #261 on: March 15, 2020, 01:31:25 pm »
v00.01.02.00.03 2020/02/27
     - It solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data, and solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data

v00.01.02.00.02  2020/02/25
       
     - Optimized the connection HDMI start problem optimized the connection HDMI start problem
     - Optimize the vertical gear, channel zero elimination error
     - Optimization of the inconsistency between SPI CLK and SDA names
     - Zoom mode square wave display in optimized 2S time base
     - Added command to get pass / fail times
     - Delete the default email account and password
     - Problems in remote instructions are optimized
     - Optimized 1K storage depth, waveform recording
     - The problem of too many stuck events in optimized decoding

If we read the Chinglish "Optimize the vertical gear, channel zero elimination error" as something like "Optimised channel gain and offset calibration/compensation" we perhaps have an explanation for the issue with channel 3 coming on in 'auto' from residual noise/offset alone. If they muffed something up in automated gain/offset compensation it would explain this as a regression (in the sense of a bug appearing/re-appearing).

Lordy, I do wish the Chinese would spend a few shekels on translation. Do we have any native Chinese speakers who can confirm my interpretation of the release notes from the original Chinese release notes?
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline sb42

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #262 on: March 15, 2020, 03:38:25 pm »
As noted earlier, I'm on firmware 00.01.02.00.02 and cannot reproduce the auto problem.  Because NoisyBoy says it's a random event, I wrote a little script to test this repeatedly:

Code: [Select]
#!/bin/bash

addr="192.168.8.32"
check="2 3 4"
wait="3"
repeat=5000

for ((i = 0; i < repeat; i++)); do
    lxi scpi -a $addr ":autoscale"
    sleep $wait
    for c in $check; do
        res=$(lxi scpi -a $addr ":channel${c}:display?")
        if [[ "$res" == "1" ]]; then
            echo "failed at iteration $i: channel $c is on" >&2
            exit 1
        fi
    done
done

So, activate AUTO, wait 3s, check if channels 2-4 are active. With the scope rebooted and set to defaults, the script has been running for an hour with no spurious channel activations so far.

Looking at the screen however, I notice that activating AUTO will occasionally (say 5-10% of the time) display a (flat) waveform for channel 2 for just a moment, which then disappears when the display settles. All channels other than CH1 stay off and their buttons are not lit. If I toggle channel 3 on and off before running the script, then it's that channel's waveform that flickers on and off instead; likewise for channel 4.

TL;DR - I still can't reproduce the problem but there's now some other thing that I don't know what to make of :-//
 
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Offline mabl

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #263 on: March 16, 2020, 11:09:25 am »
v00.01.02.00.03 2020/02/27
     - It solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data, and solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data

Just as an additional data point: Compared to the larger changes of 00.01.02.00.02, the .03 release really only touches appEntry and the FPGA.

Code: [Select]
        modified:   firmware/fw4linux.sh
        modified:   firmware/fw4uboot.sh
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/K160M_TOP.bit
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/appEntry
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #264 on: March 16, 2020, 01:45:27 pm »
What is your hardware version?

I tried calibration last night, but skander36 is right, it made no difference.  Channel 3 came on with nothing attached.

I wonder if Rigol lowered the turn-on threshold with Auto across 5000/7000/8000, and the noisier front end on some 5000 triggers this problem. 

Regardless, the channel should not come on when there’s nothing attached.

As noted earlier, I'm on firmware 00.01.02.00.02 and cannot reproduce the auto problem.  Because NoisyBoy says it's a random event, I wrote a little script to test this repeatedly:

Code: [Select]
#!/bin/bash

addr="192.168.8.32"
check="2 3 4"
wait="3"
repeat=5000

for ((i = 0; i < repeat; i++)); do
    lxi scpi -a $addr ":autoscale"
    sleep $wait
    for c in $check; do
        res=$(lxi scpi -a $addr ":channel${c}:display?")
        if [[ "$res" == "1" ]]; then
            echo "failed at iteration $i: channel $c is on" >&2
            exit 1
        fi
    done
done

So, activate AUTO, wait 3s, check if channels 2-4 are active. With the scope rebooted and set to defaults, the script has been running for an hour with no spurious channel activations so far.

Looking at the screen however, I notice that activating AUTO will occasionally (say 5-10% of the time) display a (flat) waveform for channel 2 for just a moment, which then disappears when the display settles. All channels other than CH1 stay off and their buttons are not lit. If I toggle channel 3 on and off before running the script, then it's that channel's waveform that flickers on and off instead; likewise for channel 4.

TL;DR - I still can't reproduce the problem but there's now some other thing that I don't know what to make of :-//
 

Offline sb42

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #265 on: March 16, 2020, 02:37:57 pm »
What is your hardware version?

01.01.000, MSO5074.

Quote
I tried calibration last night, but skander36 is right, it made no difference.  Channel 3 came on with nothing attached.

I wonder if Rigol lowered the turn-on threshold with Auto across 5000/7000/8000, and the noisier front end on some 5000 triggers this problem. 

Regardless, the channel should not come on when there’s nothing attached.

I'll see if I can post some noise measurements.
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #266 on: March 16, 2020, 08:12:45 pm »
As noted earlier, I'm on firmware 00.01.02.00.02 and cannot reproduce the auto problem.  Because NoisyBoy says it's a random event, I wrote a little script to test this repeatedly:

Code: [Select]
#!/bin/bash

addr="192.168.8.32"
check="2 3 4"
wait="3"
repeat=5000

for ((i = 0; i < repeat; i++)); do
    lxi scpi -a $addr ":autoscale"
    sleep $wait
    for c in $check; do
        res=$(lxi scpi -a $addr ":channel${c}:display?")
        if [[ "$res" == "1" ]]; then
            echo "failed at iteration $i: channel $c is on" >&2
            exit 1
        fi
    done
done

So, activate AUTO, wait 3s, check if channels 2-4 are active. With the scope rebooted and set to defaults, the script has been running for an hour with no spurious channel activations so far.

Looking at the screen however, I notice that activating AUTO will occasionally (say 5-10% of the time) display a (flat) waveform for channel 2 for just a moment, which then disappears when the display settles. All channels other than CH1 stay off and their buttons are not lit. If I toggle channel 3 on and off before running the script, then it's that channel's waveform that flickers on and off instead; likewise for channel 4.

TL;DR - I still can't reproduce the problem but there's now some other thing that I don't know what to make of :-//

Try this :
Set Default -> Activate G1(default settings) connect a cable from G1out to CH1 input->Press AUTO

Let us know what's happened.
Maybe some scopes are defective .
 

Offline sb42

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #267 on: March 16, 2020, 09:58:52 pm »
Try this :
Set Default -> Activate G1(default settings) connect a cable from G1out to CH1 input->Press AUTO

Let us know what's happened.
Maybe some scopes are defective .

That displays the sine wave on CH1, the other three channels stay off.
 

Offline sb42

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #268 on: March 16, 2020, 10:03:28 pm »
Here's a quick measurement from a rev 01.01.000 MSO5074 running a modified 00.01.02.00.02:

950594-0

Not too impressed with those noise levels, Rigol :--

It looks like CH3 is "special", so maybe that's a clue. I tried AC-coupling it to no avail.

Anyone else want to try this or tell me where I goofed? :)
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #269 on: March 16, 2020, 10:38:41 pm »
Interesting!  I just ran the same test, VRMS on the 1.00 hardware is around 302uV for channel 1/3/4, channel 2 is about 323uv.  It may very well be a manufacturing variance.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #270 on: March 16, 2020, 10:59:42 pm »
Not too impressed with those noise levels, Rigol :--

16-17 nV/√Hz - not exemplary, but not awful either.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #271 on: March 17, 2020, 04:35:37 pm »
Hi all, an interesting finding to share with you.

If you follow the readme file in the latest 02.03 firmware Rigol released quickly after 02.02, probably there is little to no reason for doing another upgrade for most users.  However, I found the 02.03 update fixes a couple issues that are not documented in the readme file:

1. At least in my case, it fixes the problem with Auto randomly turning on channel that have nothing attached.  I have seen channel 2 (rarely), and channel 3 (almost always) turning on and display traces of noise.  Self-cal does not help, but after applying the fix, the problem is gone.  I have not been able to recreate it, when I press Auto, channels without input no longer comes on.

2. As sb42 had shared, when you press Auto, you sometimes get an intermediate image of other channels flashing on the screen for a moment, before it settles on the final screen.  This problem is also gone, there is no momentary flashing of random channels.

These are important fixes for the new bug introduced in 02.02, but unfortunately in Rigol fashion, the fix documentation did not fully describe what it fixes. 

I hope you will find this tip useful, and perhaps more owners can test it out so we have more than a sample of 1.

And a big thank you for mabl for pointing out the change in the FPGA and appEntry, his effort prompted me to test out the 02.03 firmware even though Rigol did not mention these hidden fixes.

Good luck and stay healthy.
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #272 on: March 18, 2020, 12:01:54 am »
So, are you saying that 02.03 is stable and fixes many issues?
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #273 on: March 18, 2020, 12:33:42 am »
Seem to be stable so far, at least not having the obvious bug in 02.02 that was in-your-face 2 min after upgrade.  Remember it is a Rigol, stability is all relative. 
 
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Offline kehall

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #274 on: March 18, 2020, 10:15:32 pm »
Have they done anything with XY mode and the huge square block to represent a point in the signal in this 02.03 firmware?

Not sure it's really 'noise' as such - as even on 100V/div on 10:1 will show a square around 40% of a graticule division (20V noise surely not right?!) :(

Doesn't seem to be any way to get a reasonable display - colour grading or intensity change doesn't do anything either..

Talking of intensity/grading on waveforms in general YT mode, it'd be nice to be able to adjust intensity for a graded option to fade out the less frequent 'noisy' components to crisp up the waveform, perhaps as a variation on the colour grading instead of changing colour, change brightness of the pixels.
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #275 on: March 22, 2020, 06:52:51 pm »
Try this :
Set Default -> Activate G1(default settings) connect a cable from G1out to CH1 input->Press AUTO

Let us know what's happened.
Maybe some scopes are defective .

That displays the sine wave on CH1, the other three channels stay off.
My scope is doing as can be seen here : https://youtu.be/2Uvl-dC13Pc
If it is defective, why is not doing this on Fw. 04.08 and below ?
Calibration does not change anything .




 

Offline pmaggi

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #276 on: March 22, 2020, 07:16:51 pm »
Is it possible to back to 00.01.04.08?
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #277 on: March 22, 2020, 07:25:58 pm »
Is it possible to back to 00.01.04.08?
Yes . With "SINGLE" key at boot time .
 

Offline sb42

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #278 on: March 23, 2020, 01:51:32 am »
Try this :
Set Default -> Activate G1(default settings) connect a cable from G1out to CH1 input->Press AUTO

Let us know what's happened.
Maybe some scopes are defective .

That displays the sine wave on CH1, the other three channels stay off.
My scope is doing as can be seen here : https://youtu.be/2Uvl-dC13Pc
If it is defective, why is not doing this on Fw. 04.08 and below ?
Calibration does not change anything .

It certainy seems less "defective" than mine going by the noise levels :)

Have you tried firmware 00.01.02.00.03?
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #279 on: March 23, 2020, 08:04:39 am »
Yes , I said before.
Both 02 & 03 have the same behavior.
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #280 on: March 23, 2020, 02:41:11 pm »
Sorry to hear that, 02.03 fixed the ghost channel problem in my scope, as it has not occurred again after the upgrade.  But I have not heard any other feedback and you are the first to reply.  So I guess the result is inconclusive at this point.

I agree with your observation as my scope never had the ghost issue prior to the 02.02 upgrade, but 02.03 seem to have solved that problem.

 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #281 on: March 23, 2020, 03:13:30 pm »
Hi  NoisyBoy,
The 03 version has been out very close in time to 02, so I have put it  immediately on scope to see that they have solved .
But nothing changed.
I have tested from then by putting 04.08 then advanced to 02.03 , back to o4.08 ->02.02 ->02.03 and again .
There was one time when I was on 02.02 the things seem to be better in that channel 3 was not activating automatically but only when I hook a cable from G1 .
But when I have moving to 02.03 the things went back and channel 3 is activate by itself again even I have downgraded to 02. So I decided to remain on 04.08 to waiting for a new fw. update .
« Last Edit: March 23, 2020, 03:53:42 pm by skander36 »
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #282 on: March 23, 2020, 04:31:52 pm »
Hi skander36, sorry to hear what's going on with your scope, and thanks for sharing that datapoint with us so others can be aware of potential issues with the upgrade.

In your case, I agree that staying at 04.08 would be the best option, as the ghost channel bug is a real pain. 
 

Offline pmaggi

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #283 on: March 23, 2020, 05:34:12 pm »
In my scope 02.00.03 also produces the ghost in channel 3.
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #284 on: March 23, 2020, 07:36:54 pm »
In my scope 02.00.03 also produces the ghost in channel 3.
Yeap ... I wasn't to call it a bug as vast majority report that it is not manifesting in their scopes, but as long it is present only on specific version of firmaware , but not in the previous and it can be reproduced , I don't know how to name it.
I think that Rigol lower the threshold levels and in some conditions appear more noise that open channel 3.
Maybe someone has better suggestions ...
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #285 on: March 24, 2020, 01:15:12 pm »
With fw. 03 I have tested level on which ch.3 is activated and I have found that over 23,5 mV on ch1 , ch3 is activated . Under 23,5 mV ch3 is not activated. So ch1 activate ch3 (and some time ch4) .
 

Offline typoknig

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #286 on: March 27, 2020, 03:32:27 am »
I just got my MSO5074 this week. It is HW rev 01.01.000 and came with FW 00.01.01.04.08. I ran the following tests, updated the FW to 00.01.02.00.03 without performing a self calibration, ran the tests again, then performed the self calibration, and ran the tests one last time.  I got the same results in all three scenarios and never saw a single ghost channel. Only when a grabber was on the probe was that probe's channel activated:

All probes disconnected, rubber caps over BNCs, pressed AUTO 10 times

All probes disconnected, rubber caps off BNCs, pressed AUTO 10 times

Each probe connected by itself with grabber and ground lead, pressed AUTO 10 times

Each probe connected by itself without grabber, but with ground lead, pressed AUTO 10 times

Each probe connected by itself with grabber, but without ground lead, pressed AUTO 10 times

Each probe connected by itself without grabber or ground lead, pressed AUTO 10 times

All probes connected with grabbers and ground leads, pressed AUTO 10 times

All probes connected without grabbers, but with ground leads, pressed AUTO 10 times

Is it possible those of you seeing the ghost channel have had a less than perfect self calibration? Maybe some interference like LED lights or a leaky wireless device caused the self calibration to be inaccurate?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 03:40:12 am by typoknig »
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #287 on: March 27, 2020, 05:02:25 am »
I'll be damned, typokbnig is on to something I never considered - WiFi interference!

I have a high power mesh network running in my home, I have been seeing a consistent 1+ mV noise on my scope, oddly, only on channel 2 but none of the others.  I was about to send the scope back to Rigol for repair.

When I powered the scope up tonight, channel 2 became the ghost channel that would always come on when I press Auto (which did not surprise me as I know about the Channel 2 noise issue).  Thanks to typoknig's suggestion, I powered down the mesh satellite closest to the scope, and guess what, the noise is gone, and no more ghost channel issue!

I am not surprised about the interference, I should have known better, but I am surprised that it only manifested in a single channel, perhaps it is less shielded than the others.  Anyway, armed with this new finding, I will leave the WiFi satellite off and run a full calibration this evening.

Back to skander36's comment, I have supplied signal of varying voltages to channel one up to 5V p-p, and I have not been able to get any ghost channel to come on.  So the suggestion of trying it outside of WiFi range and LED lights may well worth a try and see if it makes any difference.  However, like you, I have not seen this issue in firmware 04.08, so I would agree Rigol might have lowered the turn-on threshold just enough for this problem to manisfest in our scopes.

Just finished a self cal, noise level is consistent across all 4 channels, right at around 303uV (at 2mV/div) with +/- 3 uV across channels. 
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 06:19:06 am by NoisyBoy »
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #288 on: March 27, 2020, 09:26:43 am »
Wow, graet wrok typoknig!
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #289 on: March 27, 2020, 09:49:02 am »
Hi , @typoknig and @NoysyBoy ,
Thank you for your suggestions. I also give that tips to others but I was not able to follow for myself  ... :)
I moved the scope away from bench (into other room) and after calling default settings (Restore Defaults)  from boot menu (single key), I was doing a self calibration .
Now the ghost channel activation does not appear anymore .
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #290 on: March 27, 2020, 11:05:09 am »
So are there some ideas as to why this is happening?  Like the MSO5000 is picking up some kind of RF transmission and that is messing up the self-calibration?
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #291 on: March 27, 2020, 03:15:57 pm »
skander36, it is great to hear that the WiFi tip works for you as well and was able to fix your problem.

Gandalf_Sr, the Rigol is definitely not great at shielding the frontend from RF interference.  I would not call this a failure or classify it as inadequate yet, but I have not seen similar issue at any other test gear in the same test location.  In my case, the noise it picked up is between 1-2 mV on channel 2, which is almost 6-7X the normal noise floor, so it definitely would mess with self cal.

So if you own or plan to buy a MSO5000, putting it in an area with strong WiFi signal can potentially really mess with your noise floor and cause ghost channel issue.  If you have them, try turn off your WiFi while doing the self cal, or while doing low level measurement.  Again, this interference was only across one channel in my case, so check all your channels and don't base your finding on channel 1.
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #292 on: March 27, 2020, 03:21:33 pm »
So are there some ideas as to why this is happening?  Like the MSO5000 is picking up some kind of RF transmission and that is messing up the self-calibration?
And why ch3 is activated by signal from ch1 ?
They should not be separated (isolated) ?
At what level this influence is done ?
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #293 on: March 27, 2020, 06:58:08 pm »
That possibly explains why I have never had this issue with the 8000 or 5000 we have here.

The wifi is not meshed but far enough away from the router.


When I dismantled the 8000 to rebuild the very average power supply there were RF fingers everywhere, even on the Lan/USB/Aux BNC inputs on the back really nice design as well.

All of the ASIC cans use decent finger arrays to the case, this is maybe because of the higher bandwidth potential of the 8000 but they are in all of the places you would expect them to be placed for a half decent scope.

Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #294 on: March 27, 2020, 07:41:54 pm »
Hey Sighound36, thanks for the great input.  Do you happen to know whether it is the same with the MSO5000?  In my case, I did all the tests with nothing attached, so it was not probe related and the interference was picked up internally.
 

Offline TK

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #295 on: March 27, 2020, 08:30:28 pm »
One difference Dave noticed during the MSO5000 teardown was the difference in the input stage shielding.  The 5000 has the shields open with aluminum heatsinks sticking out.  I am not an expert but I suspect it cannot be as good shield as one completely closed.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #296 on: March 27, 2020, 08:56:24 pm »
Quote
I am not an expert but I suspect it cannot be as good shield as one completely closed.

I´m not an expert in this too, but I would agree to this.


Offline typoknig

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #297 on: March 27, 2020, 09:32:05 pm »
One difference Dave noticed during the MSO5000 teardown was the difference in the input stage shielding.  The 5000 has the shields open with aluminum heatsinks sticking out.  I am not an expert but I suspect it cannot be as good shield as one completely closed.

Here is a link to that point in the teardown. Note that the 7000 does have some holes in the cans, just smaller.

https://youtu.be/P5faiEUXbGg?t=772
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #298 on: March 27, 2020, 09:32:21 pm »
I think the problem is rather in software .
Don't forget that the problem is not present in fw. 04.08 and still in 02.02 .
Only in 02.03 can be corrected.
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #299 on: March 27, 2020, 09:46:34 pm »
I would say the ghost channel is caused by the firmware upgrade, but the 1+ mV noise I picked up is definitely RF interference.

The larger opening above the ASIC heat sink may very well be the cause of the RF interference.  It is something that we should be aware of while placing the scope.  It seems like Rigol might have focused more on cooling and less on interference while coming out with the design. 

Comparing this to the Siglent 2000X+, https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg2976282/#msg2976282, the Siglent seem to do a better job in providing more comprehensive shielding for the front end from the look of it.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 10:45:08 pm by NoisyBoy »
 

Offline typoknig

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #300 on: March 28, 2020, 02:08:18 am »
Hi all, an interesting finding to share with you.

If you follow the readme file in the latest 02.03 firmware Rigol released quickly after 02.02, probably there is little to no reason for doing another upgrade for most users.  However, I found the 02.03 update fixes a couple issues that are not documented in the readme file:

1. At least in my case, it fixes the problem with Auto randomly turning on channel that have nothing attached.  I have seen channel 2 (rarely), and channel 3 (almost always) turning on and display traces of noise.  Self-cal does not help, but after applying the fix, the problem is gone.  I have not been able to recreate it, when I press Auto, channels without input no longer comes on.

2. As sb42 had shared, when you press Auto, you sometimes get an intermediate image of other channels flashing on the screen for a moment, before it settles on the final screen.  This problem is also gone, there is no momentary flashing of random channels.

These are important fixes for the new bug introduced in 02.02, but unfortunately in Rigol fashion, the fix documentation did not fully describe what it fixes. 

I hope you will find this tip useful, and perhaps more owners can test it out so we have more than a sample of 1.

And a big thank you for mabl for pointing out the change in the FPGA and appEntry, his effort prompted me to test out the 02.03 firmware even though Rigol did not mention these hidden fixes.

Good luck and stay healthy.

Regarding your second point, I did still see this problem in the 00.01.02.00.03 firmware when performing my tests. It didn't happen often, maybe like 3 or 4 times through all my testing. When it did happen it was always channel 1 that flashed.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 02:14:29 am by typoknig »
 
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Offline Sighound36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #301 on: March 28, 2020, 09:59:18 am »
Hi NoisyBoy

I have checked both the 5 & 7000 scopes this morning, zero issues with the channel turning on and they are all running the latest FW.

On the 8000 noise (full bandwidth 2Ghz +) open port, 50Ohm setting No high resolution (normal acquisition) or precision settings 200ps on the HTB, average noise on channel was 322uV.

If you switch on the 20Mhz BM limit, high resolution and precision you obtain on average around 80uV, the Wavepro 254 is around 44uV with the ERCS in use @ the same 20Mhz BW limit and open port

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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #302 on: March 28, 2020, 03:32:45 pm »
Hi Sighound36 and typoknig, thank you for the input and datapoint. 

I’ll have to turn on the BM limit and see how it affects the noise floor, I meant to do that but forgot, my test was run with full BW.  If it makes a meaningful reduction, reducing the BW could be an useful trick for those who needs a lower noise floor for low signal level measurement.
 

Offline UA3MQJ

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #303 on: April 02, 2020, 01:28:38 pm »
Hello, all!
I finally got an oscilloscope today,
Model Rigol MSO 5072 (Max BW:70M)
Firmware: 00.01.02.00.03
Hardware: 01.01.000
Boot: 2018.06.27
Build: 2020-02-26 17:47:28

Interestingly, the set included probes at 350 MHz - Rigol PVP2350
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #304 on: April 02, 2020, 05:19:13 pm »
Enjoy your scope.  That is the standard probe Rigol sends out with the MSO5000 scopes, they are all 350 MHz probes.

This costs Rigol more, but it is a nice perk for owners of an upgradable scope.  They could have saved some money to ship the lower bandwidth probe but chose to go the more generous route, excellent move on their part to motivate owners to upgrade bandwidth with no hardware changes or buying four new probes. 

Some other brands requires you to upgrade all your probes when you upgrade the bandwidth, kudos to Rigol for doing the right move while still keeping the scope affordable.
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #305 on: April 02, 2020, 07:36:14 pm »
Quote
Some other brands requires you to upgrade all your probes when you upgrade the bandwidth

Oh yes…. :P
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #306 on: April 13, 2020, 02:22:17 pm »
I'm getting nothing from my HDMI connector although I'm trying an old monitor that only has DVI which I'm trying with a DVI-HDMI adapter.

Earlier in this thread skanders (I think) says...

v00.01.02.00.02  2020/02/25
       
     - Optimized the connection HDMI start problem optimized the connection HDMI start problem

Questions:
1. Do I need to update to vn00.01.02.00.02 or higher to make it work?
2. Is there somewhere in the menus to turn on the HDMI? I can't find anything.
3. When the HDMI monitor is on, does the main screen stop working?
4. If I change the HDMI resolution for the external monitor does the main screen change too?

Thanks in advance
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Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #307 on: April 13, 2020, 02:25:04 pm »
HDMI work in any versions .
Just activate (every time ...:) ) through Utility-IO-HDMI ...
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #308 on: April 13, 2020, 02:40:12 pm »
HDMI work in any versions .
Just activate (every time ...:) ) through Utility-IO-HDMI ...
Thanks, so it was under the IO menu, not the display menu; TILT  |O

I plugged in 2 different monitors using the DVI-HDMI adapter, got nothing from either of them. My firmware is 01.01.04.08, any ideas?
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Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #309 on: April 13, 2020, 02:46:54 pm »
DVI must work is just a physical remapping of pins , signals are the same on both ends (HDMI to DVI) ...
Check that you have selected the right input on the monitor (VGA/DVI) ... I don't see other reason ...
P.S. Currently I am using the same fw.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #310 on: April 13, 2020, 02:52:07 pm »
DVI must work is just a physical remapping of pins , signals are the same on both ends (HDMI to DVI) ...
Check that you have selected the right input on the monitor (VGA/DVI) ... I don't see other reason ...
P.S. Currently I am using the same fw.
Thanks, I knew that it was just a remap and that it should work but these are kind of old monitors.  I'm thinking of buying a new one but I don't want to go to all that expense and find it still doesn't work.  Maybe there IS a problem with the HDMI startup, at least on my MSO5000?

I tried the search on the inputs, both monitors I tried said there were no signals.
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Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #311 on: April 13, 2020, 02:55:36 pm »
I don't think it worth buying a new one for this.
Instead a used one with a HDMI connection . There are very cheap at 22, 23 inch on ebay or other sources near you .
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #312 on: April 13, 2020, 03:08:42 pm »
I don't think it worth buying a new one for this.
Instead a used one with a HDMI connection . There are very cheap at 22, 23 inch on ebay or other sources near you .
I meant a new monitor.  Anyway, I tried a 4K monitor (newest I own) that has native HDMI inputs, I plugged it in and it worked immediately (although it had a black surround on the screen) so I've proved that my MSO5000 and HDMI cable are good.  I will order an Asus VZ229HE 21.5" monitor which I can get here for $100 - I checked the manual, it will do 1280 x 720 @ 60Hz so I should be good with that model.

If anyone's curious, the HDMI display runs in addition to the scope's screen so you can work the touch screen and soft buttons on the MSO5000 and look at the HDMI monitor; would be a great scope for a teaching environment.
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #313 on: April 13, 2020, 03:13:50 pm »
What about trying your TV with HDMI?  If you go straight HDMI, you can rule out issue with your adapter.  As skander36 said,  there is no known issue with HDMI.  Make sure you set it at a resolution your monitor can support, it does not output full 1920x1080 HD.  But it is good enough at the highest resolution, it is nice not having to connect it to the Internet to output the display.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #314 on: April 13, 2020, 03:50:28 pm »
What about trying your TV with HDMI?  If you go straight HDMI, you can rule out issue with your adapter.  As skander36 said,  there is no known issue with HDMI.  Make sure you set it at a resolution your monitor can support, it does not output full 1920x1080 HD.  But it is good enough at the highest resolution, it is nice not having to connect it to the Internet to output the display.
Thanks but I think we cross-posted, I sorted the problem out by plugging into a native HDMI port on a newish monitor (actually a 4K one) and now it's like iMax MSO5000  :popcorn:
I also plugged in a Logitech wireless mouse with unifying receiver and that worked great too :D  It's really so much better working from a large monitor with a mouse.
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Offline luma

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #315 on: April 13, 2020, 05:47:21 pm »
DVI is goofy in that it has pins for both digital and analog signals, and it might not offer both digital and analog modes.  An older monitor that has VGA and DVI inputs may very well only accept an analog signal, meaning a straight pin conversation from HDMI won't work.
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #316 on: April 13, 2020, 07:02:45 pm »
Excellent, glad it is working for you.  The HDMI out is definitely a nice feature in the MSO5000, I wish it can support native HD resolution, but it is good the way it is.
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Bode Map is here for the MSO5000
« Reply #317 on: April 17, 2020, 12:05:57 am »
A feature that has long been discussed for over a year is finally here,

v00.01.03.00.01 2020/04/13
     -Add bode map function

There is no mention of any other changes at this point, but it will be a welcoming new feature to bring the scope on par with the Siglent Bode Plot offerings. 
 
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Offline pmaggi

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #318 on: April 17, 2020, 12:35:43 am »
I've upgraded to this new firmware... And bode plot works  :D
The problem with channel 3 in auto mode is still there...
 

Offline pmaggi

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #319 on: April 17, 2020, 12:56:51 am »
Here are some pictures...
971568-0
971572-1
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #320 on: April 17, 2020, 01:17:26 am »
Excellent, thanks for sharing.  I believe the ghost channel may be caused by RF interference due to inadequate shielding on the front end, leaving the heat sinks exposed and acting as an antenna.  Try removing it from strong RF sources (WiFi in my case) and see if the ghost channel goes away.

Was your plot created by using the internal AWG?  I notice it goes up to nearly 100MHz.  I hope they support external AWG as the internal AWG is very limited in capabilities.

BTW, I am absolutely surprised that they decided to release it on the 5000 ahead of the 7000 or the 8000 flagship as their firmware has much in common.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 03:23:01 am by NoisyBoy »
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #321 on: April 17, 2020, 04:51:34 am »
More woes in Rigol patch packaging.

In the US, you can access the Rigol firmware here: https://www.rigolna.com/firmware/

But when you click on the 01.03.00.01 link, you will get a file named MSO5_FW_V1_1_4_4.zip

The file name threw me off at first, thinking that they had put the old 04.04 patch from a year ago on the server, as it has the exact same name.

But have no fear, go ahead an unpack the ZIP file, the unpacked file contains the new firmware to upgrade the scope.

I will never understand why Rigol cannot pay the slightest care towards packaging firmware in a professional manner. 
 

Offline mabl

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #322 on: April 17, 2020, 05:22:34 am »
File level changes:

Code: [Select]
Changes not staged for commit:
  (use "git add <file>..." to update what will be committed)
  (use "git restore <file>..." to discard changes in working directory)
        modified:   firmware/fw4linux.sh
        modified:   firmware/fw4uboot.sh
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/Qt5.5/plugins/generic/libqevdevmouseplugin.so
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/Qt5.5/plugins/platforms/libqlinuxfb.so
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/appEntry
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/drivers/usbtmc_dev.ko
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/appmeta.xml
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/dsometa.xml
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/help/b/help.hlp
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/help/b/histogram.hlp
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/help/b/trigger.hlp
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/help/d/help.hlp
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/help/d/histogram.hlp
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/help/d/trigger.hlp
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/b.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/c.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/d.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/desc.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/h.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/i.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/j.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/k.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/l.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/m.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/menu.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/modelconfig_ch.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/modelconfig_ext.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/msg.h
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/n.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/o.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/res.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/t.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/menu/u.hex
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/res.qrc
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/CHANnel1.xml
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/CHANnel2.xml
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/CHANnel3.xml
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/CHANnel4.xml
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/HISTogram.xml
        modified:   firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/scpiConfig.xml

Untracked files:
  (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/help/b/bodeplots.hlp
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/help/d/bodeplots.hlp
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/satable/hori_10g/
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/satable/hori_20g/
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/satable/hori_2_5g/
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/satable/hori_5g/
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/satable/hori_5g_100m/
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/BODe.xml
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/compatible/BODe.xml
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/compatible/Ref.xml
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/compatible/common.xml
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/compatible/cursor.xml
        firmware/rootfs/rigol/resource/scpi/compatible/quick.xml

So no changes to the FPGA this time around.
 
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Offline Sighound36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #323 on: April 17, 2020, 08:45:10 am »


BTW, I am absolutely surprised that they decided to release it on the 5000 ahead of the 7000 or the 8000 flagship as their firmware has much in common.

Hello Noisy Boy

No Rigol's plan was to release the MSO5000 bode plot update first due to the pressure from 5000 owners (all be it late!) however the 7/8000 will follow very shortly I believe there are a few other eggs in the basket for those two models.

Possibly now the FW updates will start to be more regular for the later devices  :-+

It is currently a shame that Rigol doesn't seem to have ability to jump on the Tautech bandwagon of badgering the manufacturer into submission which seems to work for Siglent

As I have mentioned before Rigol need a brand ambassador with out jumping on ever thread to promote themselves  ideally a version of the Danny Bogoff show from Keysight with even more attitude  :-DD got to love that guy!


« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 10:06:13 am by Sighound36 »
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 
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Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #324 on: April 17, 2020, 01:49:46 pm »
I will never understand why Rigol cannot pay the slightest care towards packaging firmware in a professional manner.

I think it has to do with the webpage (what name it assigns to the download) and not so much with the file.
 
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Offline luma

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #325 on: April 17, 2020, 02:02:12 pm »
So I've been holding off on updates as they didn't really impact me but this bode plot might be handy.  Has anyone tackled a patch for this release yet?
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #326 on: April 17, 2020, 04:38:44 pm »
Sighound36, first of all, thank you so much for all your input on this topic.  I agree 100% with you.  Rigol needs a brand ambassador for all the reasons you stated, I think that could improve their goodwill towards the forum and that they value the user community's opinions.  It will only help them to be more successful and steer their firm to be more customer-driven.

I look forward to any further changes they have on the scopes.

tv84, great point.  I based my comment on using WordPress as the website editor, which gives one the flexibility to name the file to anything one wants, but their tool could be different.  However in the past, the downloaded file name always matched the version number, so there is a chance that it is an oversight in naming the download.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #327 on: April 17, 2020, 04:55:43 pm »
Hi,
It is currently a shame that Rigol doesn't seem to have ability to jump on the Tautech bandwagon of badgering the manufacturer into submission which seems to work for Siglent
As I have mentioned before Rigol need a brand ambassador with out jumping on ever thread to promote themselves  ideally a version of the Danny Bogoff show from Keysight with even more attitude  :-DD got to love that guy!

As I was in touch nearly every week with rigol.eu, we "discussed" this point also.
At least rigol.eu is not a big fan of this.
But they know the threads... ;)

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #328 on: April 17, 2020, 07:38:56 pm »
I have a few minutes to play with the Bode Plot feature, I cannot find a way to access it via the buttons yet, but it is in the application folder so it is easy to get to.

* The documentation has not been updated yet, and there is no on-line FAQ yet, so I have to fly blind.  Hopefully they will have something posted on the support site soon, currently the only help is the little picture on how to connect everything.
* The signal source seems to be locked into internal AWG Ch 1, the option to change it is greyed out even if AWG Ch2 is on.  So I don't have a way to change the source, perhaps if one attaches a compatible Rigol AWG via USB, the option could become active, I don't know for sure.
* With the internal AWG, the max frequency is 25 MHz, no change from the native AWG spec.

I will add more when I have more time to play with it.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #329 on: April 17, 2020, 08:46:58 pm »

It is currently a shame that Rigol doesn't seem to have ability to jump on the Tautech bandwagon of badgering the manufacturer into submission which seems to work for Siglent

Public forums are a double edge sword for manufacturers in that they give exposure to their products and their shortcomings.
Participation creates a higher workload and expectation to fix things that aren't right which demands good internal processes and higher cost impacting on profitability.

Still, IMO it is better to not have a paid company employee as the brand advocate as they are limited in what they say about products and still keep their job. None of us can influence a company direction very much as they each have their own agenda.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
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Offline pmaggi

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #330 on: April 18, 2020, 12:41:06 am »
A bit more testing with bode plot.
I tryed an active 3rd order chebyshev filter. As you can see in the picture below, the gain looks as it should be, but the phase is ok until it reaches -180º, then it begins to increase instead of continuing descending . It seems that the algorithm just measures the instantaneous phase and doesn't consider the previous trend.
Anyway, this new functionality seems to be very useful.

972194-0
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #331 on: April 18, 2020, 08:26:42 am »
Exercise for you guys with the new Bode plot...this done a couple of years back with the first Bode plot version in SDS1104X-E:

Simple Bode plot exercise/example.

1 KHz to 30 KHz passive band pass filter.
Components breadboarded from parts on hand.
Based entirely on the circuit example from here:
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/filter/filter_4.html





Should give us something like this:




SDS1104X-E
Sweep source SAG1021 optional AWG module
Connection HW; BNC cable and Tee, 2x BNC to croc clip leads (DUT IN, DUT OUT)

Sweep = 100 Hz - 100 KHz, 4V p-p, Low res


Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 
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Offline pmaggi

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #332 on: April 18, 2020, 10:21:50 pm »
I tryed your excercise... different capacitors...
1,6 kHz - 23.4 kHz
Here it is the result...

973146-0
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #333 on: April 18, 2020, 10:34:00 pm »
Wo-hooo, bode plot will come in may, they´ve once told to me - And now, it´s april, so early, wow...
Sorry, must correct this.
Will come in may is correct, but in may 2019.... :-X
SCNR

Offline tautech

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #334 on: April 18, 2020, 10:52:36 pm »
I tryed your excercise... different capacitors...
1,6 kHz - 23.4 kHz
Here it is the result...

(Attachment Link)
Not bad at all.  :)
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Offline Sighound36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #335 on: April 19, 2020, 07:42:36 am »
Martin

Perhaps you could work some magic on LeCroy for a bode plot function as well  :-DD
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline SimonH

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #336 on: April 20, 2020, 10:36:05 pm »
It seems that the algorithm just measures the instantaneous phase and doesn't consider the previous trend.

I wouldn't care about that. What I do not like, is that while "transitioning" from -180 degrees to +180 degrees it sort of averages the values. It first sharply starts transitioning for -180, but then smoothly comes in to +180.

Another thing that is quite funny (although not dramatic) is the "interesting" scaling for both phase and gain. Just not so... beautiful. :-) Rounding issues?

Another thing that actually annoys me a bit - while even less dramatic is the fact that apparently the only way to start the bode plot function is via the magic touch button in the bottom left corner. I kept looking for it in the measure - analyze menu. But there I wouldn't find it. It just gives once more the impression that this all is a bit half-baked.

But don't get me wrong, I still love this amazing device! It's just that they fail at such low hanging fruits! It makes me wonder how much they really test their products.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #337 on: April 20, 2020, 10:50:48 pm »
As I wrote it before sometimes, my opinion was/is that the mso5k is a raw diamond.
It needs some polishes to become a "real" diamond.
Unfortunately, it lies on rigols hands only.

Quote
Another thing that actually annoys me a bit - while even less dramatic is the fact that apparently the only way to start the bode plot function is via the magic touch button in the bottom left corner.

The reason could be quite simple by not touching the menu structure at all, just kept it in the "magic button".


Offline el_man

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #338 on: April 21, 2020, 03:44:09 pm »
As I wrote it before sometimes, my opinion was/is that the mso5k is a raw diamond.
It needs some polishes to become a "real" diamond.
Unfortunately, it lies on rigols hands only.

Quote
Another thing that actually annoys me a bit - while even less dramatic is the fact that apparently the only way to start the bode plot function is via the magic touch button in the bottom left corner.

The reason could be quite simple by not touching the menu structure at all, just kept it in the "magic button".

There is another way by using Measure button and in Analyze tab 
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #339 on: April 21, 2020, 04:14:54 pm »
Thanks for finding it in the button menu, I did not see that myself.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #340 on: April 21, 2020, 09:50:05 pm »
Martin

Perhaps you could work some magic on LeCroy for a bode plot function as well  :-DD

I could and I would…

But as I know the support in germany well, I could say their forthcoming answer instantly now and here.  ;)

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #341 on: May 12, 2020, 11:12:46 pm »
For those of you who have upgraded to the new firmware, new documentations are available:

* Manual
* Quick start
* Programming Guide
* Data Sheet

You can access them via https://www.rigolna.com/products/digital-oscilloscopes/mso5000/

You can look up how the FRA (Bode Plot) function work.  I was hoping to figure out how to let it use an external AWG, unfortunately, looks like the option is disabled and only the internal AWG is supported - for now.
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #342 on: May 12, 2020, 11:20:09 pm »
You can look up how the FRA (Bode Plot) function work.  I was hoping to figure out how to let it use an external AWG, unfortunately, looks like the option is disabled and only the internal AWG is supported - for now.

If you want customization outside of the basic functionality they provide, better off writing your own SCPI scripts to control both instruments.

edit: the new bode scpi commands
Code: [Select]
Command List
◆ BODeplot ENABle
◆ BODeplot DISPtype
◆ BODeplot SOURce
◆ BODeplot SWE eptype
◆ BODeplot REFin
◆ BODeplot REFout
◆ BODeplot IMPedance
◆ BODeplot STARt
◆ BODeplot STOP
◆ BODeplot POINT
◆ BODeplot VOLTage
◆ BODeplot VOLTage PROFile
◆ BODeplot GMARgin
◆ BODeplot GMARgin FREQuency
◆ BODeplot PMARgin
◆ BODeplot PMARgin FREQuenc y

- HRESolution was added to :ACQuire:TYPE, but there is no mention of configurability. So nothing has changed there..
- :CHANnel<n>:POSition  command was added.
- :cursor:measure:indicator command added
- :search:count and :value added
- :trace command added (AWG)
- lower probe ratios added

Tons of small changes in the documentation.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 11:50:25 pm by thm_w »
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #343 on: June 03, 2020, 12:39:25 pm »
Has anyone ever tried using a wireless mouse and keyboard set ?
I tried Microsoft and Chinese brand (Teknet) but nothing works.

Thank you  :)
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #344 on: June 03, 2020, 02:49:23 pm »
Has anyone ever tried using a wireless mouse and keyboard set ?
I tried Microsoft and Chinese brand (Teknet) but nothing works.

Thank you  :)
I use a Logitech M185 which works well; the tiny USB dongle thing has to be plugged into the front USB port of the MS05000, I tried a B-A adapter and plugged it into the back port but it didn't work.  I also found that the dongle needs to be plugged in before the scope is powered up (I think).

What's annoying is that, in order to use the front USB port for capturing screen shots to a USB-A thumb drive, you have to unplug the mouse adapter and you can't just hot-replug the adapter, the scope has to be power cycled to get it to work again.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline pmaggi

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #345 on: June 03, 2020, 02:49:51 pm »
I did it and it worked flawless.
You have to connect the receiver dongle before powering up the osciloscope in order to be recognized.

I tryed with a Logitech MK270 (just the mouse)
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #346 on: June 03, 2020, 06:57:35 pm »

You have to connect the receiver dongle before powering up the osciloscope in order to be recognized.


Seem that in the last fw. version 03, plug & play has been solved.
Also in Bode plot you can move the cursor by scroll wheel.
 
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Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #347 on: June 03, 2020, 07:11:32 pm »
Thank you guys, I only did a quick test and I didn't think about rebouting the device.
I will buy a compact keyboard with a mouse and test by myself  :)
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #348 on: June 04, 2020, 09:13:36 am »
Thank you guys, I only did a quick test and I didn't think about rebouting the device.
I will buy a compact keyboard with a mouse and test by myself  :)
You can buy a Logitech M185 mouse for about $20 but be aware that it's a bit smaller than a 'normal' mouse.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #349 on: June 04, 2020, 10:37:11 am »
Thank you guys, I only did a quick test and I didn't think about rebouting the device.
I will buy a compact keyboard with a mouse and test by myself  :)
You can buy a Logitech M185 mouse for about $20 but be aware that it's a bit smaller than a 'normal' mouse.

I already have some spare mouses, I will test with what I have but with the scope powered off this time.
What i wanted is a keyboard and mouse set to occupy only one usb port.
I also have a Logitech set with their "Unifying" dongle. If it works with that, I could choose any model  :)

Thank you again  :-+
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #350 on: June 04, 2020, 11:37:15 am »
It seem that the keyboard input is not accepted. Every keystroke determined closing the form you are trying to fill .
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #351 on: June 04, 2020, 01:00:04 pm »
I was going to say that I didn't think the MSO5000 supported a keyboard.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #352 on: June 04, 2020, 01:03:52 pm »
I was going to say that I didn't think the MSO5000 supported a keyboard.
Yes, it can spare the keyboard an buy only a mouse. I also use the M185 . It has good battery life .
 

Offline ve2mrx

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #353 on: June 04, 2020, 01:19:56 pm »
You should try a USB hub?

Martin
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #354 on: June 04, 2020, 01:50:40 pm »
You should try a USB hub?

Martin
No need for keyboard, because it cannot be used with Rigol 5000 .
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #355 on: June 17, 2020, 11:14:15 am »
You should try a USB hub?

Martin
No need for keyboard, because it cannot be used with Rigol 5000 .

Is 'keyboard & mouse' OFFICIALLY unsupported?

I heard that by using USB hub (system knows there is more than one USB port) a keyboard / mouse can be used??

If there is absolutely no support for K&M, then has anyone tried to install a suitable USB driver for K&M support which is compatible with the Kernel??

You would think that this 'feature' (especially when you are in a lab environment) would have been trivial to implement by RIGOL - so why leave it out  |O
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #356 on: June 17, 2020, 11:20:41 am »
You should try a USB hub?

Martin
No need for keyboard, because it cannot be used with Rigol 5000 .

Is 'keyboard & mouse' OFFICIALLY unsupported?

I heard that by using USB hub (system knows there is more than one USB port) a keyboard / mouse can be used??

If there is absolutely no support for K&M, then has anyone tried to install a suitable USB driver for K&M support which is compatible with the Kernel??

You would think that this 'feature' (especially when you are in a lab environment) would have been trivial to implement by RIGOL - so why leave it out  |O

OK ...

- I can offically confirm that K&M does indeed work  :clap:

- if USB hub is plugged-in and system is rebooted  :popcorn:
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #357 on: June 17, 2020, 11:29:27 am »
You should try a USB hub?

Martin
No need for keyboard, because it cannot be used with Rigol 5000 .

Is 'keyboard & mouse' OFFICIALLY unsupported?

I heard that by using USB hub (system knows there is more than one USB port) a keyboard / mouse can be used??

If there is absolutely no support for K&M, then has anyone tried to install a suitable USB driver for K&M support which is compatible with the Kernel??

You would think that this 'feature' (especially when you are in a lab environment) would have been trivial to implement by RIGOL - so why leave it out  |O

Mouse is supported, even plug&play and some of numerical inputs parameters are managed by scroll wheel.
Keyboard is not unsupported but somehow banned in a way that any input from keyboard make the forms that you try to edit to be closed.
That is what I have observed until now, maybe my keyboard is not supported . I'm using wireless kb and mouse.
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #358 on: June 17, 2020, 11:37:12 am »
You should try a USB hub?

Martin
No need for keyboard, because it cannot be used with Rigol 5000 .

Is 'keyboard & mouse' OFFICIALLY unsupported?

I heard that by using USB hub (system knows there is more than one USB port) a keyboard / mouse can be used??

If there is absolutely no support for K&M, then has anyone tried to install a suitable USB driver for K&M support which is compatible with the Kernel??

You would think that this 'feature' (especially when you are in a lab environment) would have been trivial to implement by RIGOL - so why leave it out  |O

Mouse is supported, even plug&play and some of numerical inputs parameters are managed by scroll wheel.
Keyboard is not unsupported but somehow banned in a way that any input from keyboard make the forms that you try to edit to be closed.
That is what I have observed until now, maybe my keyboard is not supported . I'm using wireless kb and mouse.

Hmm ...

I can confirm KB works OK

- using email settup form
- perhaps it could be a KB specific issue??

I can also confirm that if USB mouse & keyboard 'wireless dongle' is removed from hub

- it will not remount device once you plug-it-in again
- so definately not full plug and play  :(

Perhaps this is specific to the K220 & M150 logitech devices I have :-\
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #359 on: June 17, 2020, 11:42:39 am »
I can also confirm that if USB mouse & keyboard 'wireless dongle' is removed from hub

- it will not remount device once you plug-it-in again
- so definately not full plug and play  :(

Perhaps this is specific to the K220 & M150 logitech devices I have :-\

Shouldn't be as logitech dongles tend to be pretty good in HID compliance.

Maybe Rigol just doesnt implement full plug&pray but nonetheless it seems a nice addition.
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #360 on: June 17, 2020, 11:43:03 am »
BTW

I just got a new 5074 (Build: 2020-02-26)

Am trying to do a 'step-by-step' hands-on review :)

Will be posting my (notable) 'findings' as I discover them ...

The K&M issue was the first thing I noticed

- I'm glad that it is resolved
- at least we CAN use an external USB K&M :popcorn:
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #361 on: June 17, 2020, 11:47:16 am »


Shouldn't be as logitech dongles tend to be pretty good in HID compliance.

Maybe Rigol just doesnt implement full plug&pray but nonetheless it seems a nice addition.

Yep ...

Exactly my sentimets and I was very surprised when it did not work

After a few calls to Rigol, I got a cryptic answer that K&M is supported via hub (makes sense)

- but it does not 'recognize' hub until you do a reboot
- definately something Rigol can do to fix I hope  :-\
 

Offline skander36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #362 on: June 17, 2020, 12:01:41 pm »


- it will not remount device once you plug-it-in again
- so definately not full plug and play  :(

Perhaps this is specific to the K220 & M150 logitech devices I have :-\
It work every time when I remove and plug dongle with my M185/K270. Until last version it was not plug&play. What fw version are you using ?
On email setup the form is indeed accept inputs from keyboard after a short "fight" with a virtual keyboard.
I did not try with hub .
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #363 on: June 17, 2020, 12:12:37 pm »
I tried with my cheap Tecknet mouse and as you had suggested to me, it works very well if the dongle is here before a power on cycle.
So the MSO7000 behave like the 5000.
I always leave the dongle plugged now. It's convenient to have 3 usb ports.

I bought a compact mouse + keyboard set.
it will be more convnient to enter the label for example hoping it works.
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #364 on: June 17, 2020, 12:21:08 pm »

What fw version are you using ?


Because I'm trying to get 'hands-on' (my first Rigol) .. I'm not jumping-in with FW upgrade just yet ...

The device is new - build 2020-02-26, but FW is 00.01.02.00.03

So there definately (he thinks he is correct - but probably not) was 'later' FW available prior to OS build  ::)

But yeah, cannot be definative with anything as yet - perhaps the 00.01.03.00.01 has resolved the K&M / hub P&P issues  :-\

I will get to it soon - but thought to report as i go along  :P


BTW: like the 'black' look - hate the fingerprint & everything static magnet :(

« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 12:35:12 pm by noreply »
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #365 on: June 17, 2020, 12:35:49 pm »
Some more observations ...

Screen Brightness - for me its perfect - in room with ambient / low lights
Fan noise - not noticably louder than my Siglent SSA (Now SVA - thanks tv and the group)

Initial fiddle with menu structure is OK
- but don't like the - what appears (because this is totally new to me) not intuative layout
- because I need to think 'where is that menu for the function I want'

The 5074 has no inputs as yet

- nothing to analyze
- after 10 minutes I can feel 'heat' at the rear
- non fan side
- not hot
- just normal
- but quite warm air
- so even in static state
- it does produce some heat
- wonder what will happen during heavy load :-\
 

Offline ve2mrx

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #366 on: June 17, 2020, 02:10:51 pm »
Just something to watch out for: keyboard layouts! Keyboards send scan codes, not characters!

For this reason, maybe the scope "dislikes" some of the typed-in keys?

Is there a place to set the keyboard layout in the scope?
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #367 on: June 17, 2020, 05:19:44 pm »
Is there a place to set the keyboard layout in the scope?

There does not appear to be any configurations relating to Keyboard / Mouse

The OS Kernel simply picks-up the HID device it (should) sees in the USB hub and 'deals with the internal data' as per defined protocols - much like it would in a regular PC


 

Offline ve2mrx

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #368 on: June 17, 2020, 05:58:13 pm »
Meaning we have no way to match our typing expectations to the scope's actual character selection?

What layout is set in the scope's linux? For some reason, I expect En-US...

Martin
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #369 on: June 17, 2020, 10:44:02 pm »
I can now OFFICIALLY confirm that with the latest FW - 00.01.03.00.01 (build 2020-03-30)

The USB port - without hub - fully supports the Logitech MK220 wireless mouse / keyboard combo.

This KB / Mouse is very compact (minimalistic design - see image) and is 'black' in colour - so goes well with the MSO5000  :-+

Also in the UK can get at < GBP20 ;)

BTW

Regarding keyboard layout

- my version is UK / US
- so most likely En-US
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #370 on: June 18, 2020, 09:40:57 am »
I have a Logitech M185 mouse that works well but only on the front Type A USB port; has anyone made a mouse work from the rear Type B port?  I bought a B to A USB adapter and it didn't work with the Logitech dongle.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline aristarchus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #371 on: June 18, 2020, 10:16:15 am »
I have a Logitech M185 mouse that works well but only on the front Type A USB port; has anyone made a mouse work from the rear Type B port?  I bought a B to A USB adapter and it didn't work with the Logitech dongle.


Isnt the rear one a "USB DEVICE Interface" ?
I guess it is not host, so it is used only to connect the oscope to your PC as a device.
 
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Offline luma

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #372 on: June 18, 2020, 01:04:37 pm »
That's correct - front USB A port is a USB host, meaning it can have devices plugged into it and control them as normal.  Rear USB B is USB device, meaning it can be plugged into a host for remote control of the scope.  If you need more USB A ports to connect additinal devices, use a hub connected to the front port.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2020, 03:49:23 pm by luma »
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #373 on: June 18, 2020, 01:06:13 pm »
Isn't the rear one a "USB DEVICE Interface" ?
I guess it is not host, so it is used only to connect the oscope to your PC as a device.
I think you're right, not being a USB expert, the idea that it is only a 'device' totally escaped my feeble mind.  Anyway, the slight irritation is that, if the front USB port is used for a mouse dongle, then there's no USB port available to run a USB drive to save screen captures to - unless you run a hub.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #374 on: June 18, 2020, 02:10:27 pm »
So, a hub seems like a good purchase.  Can anyone confirm what works with the MSO5000?  I think it's USB 2.0 and wondered if this one from Amazon would do?
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #375 on: June 18, 2020, 02:48:54 pm »
So, a hub seems like a good purchase.  Can anyone confirm what works with the MSO5000?  I think it's USB 2.0 and wondered if this one from Amazon would do?

Yes, if you need to have additional devices - like flash memory to save screen capture & other possible ssh console sessions - then a small usb hub is the way to go.

I used a USB3 hub and it worked ok - so I guess the Rigol, if USB2 only, will still work with a USB3 hub because the USB3 'chipset' will still interface to USB2 - keeping in mind that the port 'activity' will be downgraded to USB2 - despite having a USB3 device plugged-in  ;)

With that in mind - I would not get a USB2 hub - instead get a USB3 hub - as it will downgrade itself to USB2 when plugged-into the Rigol

Now if you ever want to use the hub not with the Rigol - you will have a USB3 capable hub -> better than USB2  :P
 
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Offline noreply

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #376 on: June 18, 2020, 04:01:50 pm »
Just watched video review of MSO7000 (unboxing and first impressions) - Dave made some time ago  :o

At ~47min into the video - Dave starts talking about the 'dicky' layout of the fonts for the buttons & text  :blah:

After having a closer look at the 'new' MSO5000 - I'm glad to say its way better than the 7000 - Dave was right - its 'dicky' :P

So - we all good - MSO5000 series 'trumps' button text and font layout of the 7000 series :-+

 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #377 on: June 25, 2020, 02:31:08 pm »
So my USB 3.0 Hub arrived and it works great.  I have the mouse dongle plugged in the end slot.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 
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Offline AlexBbb

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #378 on: June 29, 2020, 06:56:37 am »
I just got my MSO5074 delivered today:
- FW: 00.01.03.00.01
- HW: 01.01.000
- Build: 2020-03-30 // calibration date: 2nd June 2020.
I'm happy with both noise level (my laptop is noisier) and screen.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 04:43:18 am by AlexBbb »
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #379 on: June 29, 2020, 05:27:19 pm »
Thanks for the info.

FYI, the Build is not the date your scope was built, it was tied to the firmware version.  The best way to approximate your actual manufactured date for your scope is the date on the cal cert.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #380 on: July 01, 2020, 08:54:55 pm »
Anyone has a MSO5000-E ?

Code: [Select]
[Supported Model]    All the MSO5000-E Series Digital Oscilloscopes
[Latest Revision Date]  2020/04/30

[Updated Contents]
--------------------
v00.01.03.00.00 2020/04/30
     -Add bode map function
     - It solves the error of SCPI instruction reading La channel memory data
     - Optimized the connection HDMI start problem optimized the connection HDMI start problem
     - Optimize the vertical gear, channel zero elimination error
     - Optimization of the inconsistency between SPI CLK and SDA names
     - Zoom mode square wave display in optimized 2S time base
     - Added command to get pass / fail times
     - Delete the default email account and password
     - Problems in remote instructions are optimized
     - Optimized 1K storage depth, waveform recording
     - The problem of too many stuck events in optimized decoding

v00.01.01.00.03  2019/08/19

     - Release the production version
 

Offline oliv3r

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older MSO software versions
« Reply #381 on: August 11, 2020, 04:16:31 pm »
Hey All,

I'm trying to update the repo https://gitlab.com/riglol/rigolee/-/tree/MSO5000/GEL but seem to have missed some software versions :( I've heard that there was a v00.01.02.00.02 and a v00.01.02.00.03, but I sadly missed those.

If anybody can hook me up with those two releases, I can add them to the repo. I do have v00.01.03.00.01 :)

Repo updated with those :)

MSO-5000E seems interesting, as tv84 said, what is that? and how does it fit in with our current MSO5000? How are we looking in terms of update files for that? It looks like a butchered MS5000 with only 2 channels, and potentially a little cheaper? Only different housing?

As for the other's, I know there's no DS7000 or MSO8000 files yet, as I wasn't paying too much attention there, but I want to rectify that :) I have the latest version, but other then that nothing yet. Who can help me complete my collection there? The reason why these are important, is because of the shared code base they have ...

While off-topic; it seems that RSA3000 and RSA5000 are both zynq fpga designs made with similar software, so I'm going to start collecting those as well, but not sure if we have dedicated threads for those, feel free to point me in the right direction ;)

As for DG800 and DG900 may also be linux based, but no idea on those yet (only checked firmware sizes) so the same applies here too.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: August 11, 2020, 04:46:19 pm by oliv3r »
 

Offline tv84

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Re: older MSO software versions
« Reply #382 on: August 11, 2020, 04:23:58 pm »
If anybody can hook me up with those two releases, I can add them to the repo. I do have v00.01.03.00.01 :)

See pm.
 
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Offline oliv3r

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Re: older MSO software versions
« Reply #383 on: August 12, 2020, 05:52:45 pm »
If anybody can hook me up with those two releases, I can add them to the repo. I do have v00.01.03.00.01 :)

See pm.

Thank you hero! i'll process them and uploaded a little messy now; i'll clean it up in a few months' time :)

Offline Vladamir

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #384 on: August 15, 2020, 05:17:26 pm »
@Gandalf_Sr / other Rigol MSO5000 users, do you recommend the Rigol MSO5000 or do you suggest spending extra and buying the Siglent SDS2000X Plus?
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #385 on: August 15, 2020, 07:02:33 pm »
@Gandalf_Sr / other Rigol MSO5000 users, do you recommend the Rigol MSO5000 or do you suggest spending extra and buying the Siglent SDS2000X Plus?
Watch the video from long time member Howardlong here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3182422/#msg3182422
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Offline Sighound36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #386 on: August 15, 2020, 08:32:41 pm »
Good to see you back in TT mode again we missed your superlative ability to push Siglent at every single  opportunity normal service has been resumed obviously the those recent shot across the bows have literally gone way over the top  ::)

Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #387 on: August 15, 2020, 08:41:59 pm »
He just posted a comparision vid  :-//

Offline MegaVolt

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #388 on: August 15, 2020, 08:42:05 pm »
@Gandalf_Sr / other Rigol MSO5000 users, do you recommend the Rigol MSO5000 or do you suggest spending extra and buying the Siglent SDS2000X Plus?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2104x-plus-(100mhz)-vs-keysight-dsox1204g-70mhz/
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #389 on: August 15, 2020, 08:59:23 pm »
Good to see you back in TT mode again we missed your superlative ability to push Siglent at every single  opportunity normal service has been resumed obviously the those recent shot across the bows have literally gone way over the top  ::)
:-//
Really ?
Are you trolling me ?

A question that was addressed at Gandalf_Sr whom hasn't the foggyist of how the 2kX Plus performs has been directed to a post where Howard that has both scopes and taken the trouble to make an informative head to head video where Vladamir can make up his own mind which direction he wants to go.
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #390 on: August 15, 2020, 09:28:34 pm »
Good to see you back in TT mode again we missed your superlative ability to push Siglent at every single  opportunity normal service has been resumed obviously the those recent shot across the bows have literally gone way over the top  ::)

So someone actively asks for information on a Siglent product versus a Rigol product, and Tautech pointing them at an independant comparison video somehow qualifies as pushing "Siglent at every single  opportunity"? If it is then I'm also the bleeding Queen of Sheba and you're required to call me "Your Majesty" henceforth. Really, if you're going to publicly call someone out then decency demands that you have some actual substance to your accusations.
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Offline Sighound36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #391 on: August 16, 2020, 07:29:44 am »
Seems like I've stirred the beast   :-[ on this particular occasion I have to hold my hands up and apologise, I did not read the previous posts requesting the information that TT provided. So I am sorry for the offense caused by the comments in my post and to TT for any infurances implied in said post.
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #392 on: August 16, 2020, 07:38:15 am »
Seems like I've stirred the beast   :-[ on this particular occasion I have to hold my hands up and apologise, I did not read the previous posts requesting the information that TT provided. So I am sorry for the offense caused by the comments in my post and to TT for any infurances implied in said post.
Accepted, thank you.
We each can have a hair trigger at times.  ;)
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Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #393 on: August 16, 2020, 08:36:30 am »
Don't be too rough with Sighound36.
He tries to have fun with his new big toy.
But her body cannot handle so much noise and heat.

Personally, I prefer my toys to be quiet, even big ones otherwise It tends to drive me crazy  >:D
 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #394 on: August 16, 2020, 09:01:14 am »
Don't be too rough with Sighound36.
He tries to have fun with his new big toy.
But her body cannot handle so much noise and heat.

Personally, I prefer my toys to be quiet, even big ones otherwise It tends to drive me crazy  >:D

I agree completely even my big 800 watt dc load is quieter  than the beast of Bogdanoff
« Last Edit: August 16, 2020, 11:26:14 am by Sighound36 »
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #395 on: August 16, 2020, 09:07:56 am »
@Gandalf_Sr / other Rigol MSO5000 users, do you recommend the Rigol MSO5000 or do you suggest spending extra and buying the Siglent SDS2000X Plus?
Vlad,

I am not a Siglent fan because of a problem I had a while back with one of their scopes - it was brand new, didn't work properly, and they wouldn't fix it. I argued and argued with them and, eventually they gave me my money back.

The Rigol MSO5000 is not perfect but it does everything I need it to.

My workshop is now a Siglent-free zone.
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer
 

Offline jemangedeslolos

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #396 on: August 16, 2020, 09:36:59 am »
@Gandalf_Sr / other Rigol MSO5000 users, do you recommend the Rigol MSO5000 or do you suggest spending extra and buying the Siglent SDS2000X Plus?
Vlad,

I am not a Siglent fan because of a problem I had a while back with one of their scopes - it was brand new, didn't work properly, and they wouldn't fix it. I argued and argued with them and, eventually they gave me my money back.

The Rigol MSO5000 is not perfect but it does everything I need it to.

My workshop is now a Siglent-free zone.

I had the MSO5000 and found it to be a good device.
Getting all of that into one device at this price point is definitely a huge challenge.

If I had to choose today, I will surely go to the Siglent which is more polished...but it is something like +30% more expensive than the Rigol.
The Siglent has a bigger screen and a better front end but in terms of functionality, it's pretty much the same.
The Rigol deserves a little update to add some details that could make it unbeatable.

Gandalf_Sr is right, I too have dealt with Siglent on two or three occasions and it is true that we are very far from a premium service.
Everything has been sorted out but I have the feeling that Siglent is relatively tight on money, probably because the margins on their device are low and they have limited room for maneuver.

I have not yet had to deal with Rigol that said so it may be the same thing.
 

Offline Vladamir

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #397 on: August 16, 2020, 11:50:32 am »
Thank you all for your contributions, both seem like great tools atm. On one hand Siglent seems quite appealing; on the other, you have Rigol's price combined with @Gandalf_Sr's very interesting LA probe design
 

Offline oelapaloma

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #398 on: October 04, 2021, 04:49:03 pm »
@ve2mrx
Quote
Just something to watch out for: keyboard layouts! Keyboards send scan codes, not characters!

IMHO the scan codes only differ for PS/2 keyboards, not USB keyboards. Should be defined in the USB specification.
 

Offline ve2mrx

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #399 on: October 05, 2021, 03:59:59 am »
@ve2mrx
Quote
Just something to watch out for: keyboard layouts! Keyboards send scan codes, not characters!

IMHO the scan codes only differ for PS/2 keyboards, not USB keyboards. Should be defined in the USB specification.

I disagree, on my Raspberry Pi using a USB keyboard, I still need to set the correct keyboard layout. It is the same with other OSes like Windows. The keyboard is just that, a key board. What is sent are scan codes, which the OS has to map to characters and functions. This is the reason you can use any USB or PS/2 keyboard to write in any language, or whatever mapping you want to design like DVORAK.

Reference: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Keyboard_input

Martin
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #400 on: December 11, 2021, 06:20:08 pm »
Sorry guys, I haven't been on this forum for many months.  I found something interesting on the Rigol US website, under the MSO5000, while the download page showed version 01.03.00.01 as the latest, when I clicked on the Release Note, it shows:

v00.01.03.00.03 2021/10/18

      - Optimized waveform display in XY mode.
      - Optimized the DC gain calibration algorithm.
      - The La channel is decoded in parallel, which solved the problem of decoding
         error in negative polarity.

Looks like it addresses some of the common issues many have discussed.  The GEL file has a date 10/17/21. 

Oops, please ignore this, the topic is actively being discussed at another thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hacking-the-rigol-mso5000-series-oscilloscopes/msg3825071/#msg3825071
« Last Edit: December 11, 2021, 06:43:10 pm by NoisyBoy »
 

Offline vutt

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #401 on: June 02, 2022, 07:55:30 pm »
Rigol official amazon.de shop is selling atm 2 different MSO5074 versions with different EAN numbers, but with exactly the same price.
EAN 4053199916733 https://www.amazon.de/50000Wfms-MSO5000-BND-Oscilloscope-Included-Multi-Touch/dp/B07PC2B7CY
EAN 6973332403310 https://www.amazon.de/50000Wfms-MSO5000-BND-Oscilloscope-Included-Multi-Touch/dp/B08TB1V9W5

Are we dealing with different HW revisions here? Are there any differences applying "DIY Licensing bundle"?
Edit: Skimmed quickly trough this thread - it looks like there is only one HW version - 01.01.000 
« Last Edit: June 02, 2022, 07:59:37 pm by vutt »
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #402 on: June 02, 2022, 08:42:51 pm »
Are there any differences applying "DIY Licensing bundle"?

The "bundles" are FW version related, not HW related.
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #403 on: February 01, 2023, 05:20:19 pm »
Rigol just released a version of the 1.03.02.02 on the US website.  When you do the actual download, the file name is MSO5_FW_V1_1_4_4, the upgrade instruction.txt file is still gibberish, likely in a different language.  For the actual GEL file, the checksum was exactly the same as the one in the Chinese site which disappeared earlier.  They never had a professional discipline in managing firmware update when the MSO5000 came out, sadly this trend continues years later. 

Here is the change log, also the same as before:
v00.01.03.02.02 2023/01/04
   
     - Add shortcut button and VNC remote function
    - Waveform, cursor movement, gesture operation vertical and horizontal gear switching speed optimization
    - Cursor optimization: cursor jump optimization, ZOOM area and main time base cursor linkage, etc
    - The color of the CH4 waveform is modified, and the brightness of the waveform is improved
    - ZOOM mode optimization: mask color adjustment, switching speed, area movement optimization
    - SCPI instruction response speed optimization: reset, measurement, waveform read instruction response optimization

While the file is the same as before, at least now you are downloading this patch from the official firmware download site.  So hopefully we will get some support from Rigol in case the upgrade fails. 


Some have reported upgrade failure with this version, this is unfortunate, but not entirely unexpected given Rigol's careless approach to firmware and updates.  To help all in the community who wants the upgrade, can we start a log of your experience in upgrading to firmware 1.:

* Upgrade successful vs. upgrade failed
* Reset to factory default required, vs. not required.
* Hardware version
* Was your scope "hacked/enhanced" with patch file before the upgrade
* Any extra steps taken to perform upgrade


Thank you, let's see if we can get to the bottom of this. 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2023, 05:24:20 pm by NoisyBoy »
 

Offline ken830

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #404 on: February 14, 2023, 12:51:41 am »
Received MSO5072 today from Saelig

HW revision: 01.00.000
last self-cal ran on 2019/3/29.
FW 00.01.01.04.04
Boot: 2018.06.27

Wow.. Old stock?
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #405 on: February 14, 2023, 12:59:06 am »
I would think so, I have not seen 1.00.00 for many years now.  Just make sure you have a recent calibration certificate with it.  There is no benefit to be on a later revision level that I know of.
 

Offline ken830

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #406 on: February 14, 2023, 11:13:55 am »
I would think so, I have not seen 1.00.00 for many years now.  Just make sure you have a recent calibration certificate with it.  There is no benefit to be on a later revision level that I know of.

Calibration certificate says it was performed 2019/4/1 and due 2020/2/29!! That seems a bit too old, right?
 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #407 on: February 14, 2023, 10:33:38 pm »
I would share this with Saelig, they are usually good at taking care of their clients.  Typically for a new piece of equipment where calibration is important or expensive, it should have a current calibration.  Three years beyond the due date is definitely worth a call.

According to Rigol:
RIGOL has determined that the factory calibration of our instruments are not significantly affected by storage of up to 180 days before first-time use.  Cal Interval should start at the time the unit is placed in service OR 180 days past the "Date of Calibration" on the certificate received with the unit.

Perhaps they can set up something for you to have it calibrated at one of Rigol's calibration partner, or to do an exchange, or give you a discount. 
 
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Offline ken830

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #408 on: February 15, 2023, 12:42:50 am »
Yes. I sent and e-mail to their sales team informing them that the calibration from nearly 4 years ago is well expired on the brand-new equipment I just received. They've had all day, but I haven't heard back yet. Hopefully, they will offer a fair resolution.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #409 on: February 15, 2023, 03:40:40 pm »
The calibration isn't worth much with an oscilloscope anyway. It's not a multimeter, it has a self-cal button.

You're supposed to use it before any critical measurement or if the ambient temperature changes by a couple of degrees.

(in some places that means you have to self-cal in the morning and again in the afternoon when the sun is up...)

 

Offline ken830

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #410 on: February 15, 2023, 07:11:34 pm »
Well, the calibration isn't worth much to me, but the newer hardware is. I believe the MSO5000 series was released at the very end of 2018 and this scope was manufactured at the beginning of 2019, 4 years ago. To me, this feels like it's from one of the very first batches. I'm also seeing some weird behavior that is difficult to tell if it is hardware or firmware related.

Saelig just issued an RMA so I'm definitely going to take it.
 
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Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #411 on: February 15, 2023, 10:24:21 pm »
I am glad they took care of it. 

Your scope was roughly the same date as the one I have, from what I recall, the early production had very noisy fans.  It was supposed to be fixed by the time your scope was produced, as the noise from mine was acceptable, not loud. 

Not sure what you mean by strange behavior, but in any event, I am glad you are getting it replaced.  I agree with Fungas scope calibration is not as critical, but I also see the point that when you buy something new, you should expect something that was manufactured fairly recently, and not 4 years ago.  The scope was in high demand back in those days, and there was a wait for delivery, so I am surprised that they found one of that vintage in inventory, it might have been tucked away in the wrong corner and they just located it during an inventory check. 
 

Offline ken830

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #412 on: February 16, 2023, 02:40:17 am »
I am glad they took care of it. 

Your scope was roughly the same date as the one I have, from what I recall, the early production had very noisy fans.  It was supposed to be fixed by the time your scope was produced, as the noise from mine was acceptable, not loud. 

Not sure what you mean by strange behavior, but in any event, I am glad you are getting it replaced.  I agree with Fungas scope calibration is not as critical, but I also see the point that when you buy something new, you should expect something that was manufactured fairly recently, and not 4 years ago.  The scope was in high demand back in those days, and there was a wait for delivery, so I am surprised that they found one of that vintage in inventory, it might have been tucked away in the wrong corner and they just located it during an inventory check.

The fan is easily audible, but I don't know if it's "loud" or not, since I've only used scopes in loud workplace lab environments over the last 23 years, so I have no reference. Not a big deal to me either way.

The funny behavior was something I noticed on the very first boot with old FW, but I have the latest FW and it still does it occasionally (maybe 1 out of every 4 boots??). Here are channels 1 and 2 both connected to the probe compensation output. I have never seen anything like this on any scope before. The shape of the waveform also changes when I change vertical offset, when I have just a single channel enabled, and also shows up on channel 2 if channel 1 is off, which is strange. There're a lot of nuance in the behavior, but I fear it may be way off-topic for this thread. If this is not something before-seen, maybe I can start a new thread. Not sure if FW or something weird with the frontend ADCs.

 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #413 on: February 16, 2023, 04:40:37 am »
I assume they are each on X10 setting, and you press Auto to trigger it?  I haven’t seen anything like that myself.  Definitely a return back to the dealer.
 

Offline ken830

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #414 on: February 16, 2023, 07:17:35 am »
Using stock probes, but the channels are on x1 setting because it was taken right after a full reboot and and reset to factory default -- didn't bother to change attenuation setting (it doesn't matter in this case). I didn't press Auto, just adjusted the horizontal scale. Check out one of the videos I took. The behavior is pretty wild. Maybe I need to start a new thread to see if anyone has anything I should try the next time it comes up like this before this gets returned. Apparently, Saelig had to order a scope from Rigol USA before they can replace this one, so I have some time with it still.

 

Online NoisyBoyTopic starter

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #415 on: February 16, 2023, 06:44:34 pm »
I would suggest not wasting any more time with it as it appears to me the scope is defective. Just pack it up and wait for the shipper to pick it up, let’s hope they can replace it for you quickly.

BTW, the MSO5000 does not have good shielding on the front end, I pick up a lot of noise if it is close to the satellites on my mesh network with nothing attached. But I doubt any noise can overpower the compensation signal in your case.
 

Online Protegimus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #416 on: February 17, 2023, 10:34:04 pm »
v00.01.03.02.02 2023/01/04

Successful firmware update with default setting on boot (reverted from Utility > System > Power On > Last for the purpose of the update).

Observations:
1. 500uV range is no longer available on CH1 - confirmed - MAJOR - can we have this back please Rigol?
(listed under page 18, Overview of the MSO5000 Series Technical Specifications > Vertical System Analog Channel > Vertical Sensitivity Range)

2. Selecting 1mV range automatically engages 20MHz bandwidth limit, with B indicated in the channel status label
    - Rigol, please provide the technical background on why this is necessary

3. Function Navigation (on-screen icon) menu is also extended/rearranged (thanks @skander36)

4. Default Storage > Save Wave > File Name is RigolDS0 - minor
    - perhaps should reflect the correct model by default, although it can be customised

5. VNC control is awesome

6. Rigol logo changed from Rigol (yellow) to Rigol (blue)  :palm:
« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 01:51:07 pm by Protegimus »
 

Offline w.v.s.

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #417 on: March 18, 2023, 01:22:59 pm »

OK ...

- I can offically confirm that K&M does indeed work  :clap:

- if USB hub is plugged-in and system is rebooted  :popcorn:

Helllo,
is it really a matter of the hub? When I just connect the keyboard and reboot, It still closes every window, into which i try to enter some data. So signals are received but do not seem to be interpreted correctly.

Update: This is also the case, when I boot with a keyboard connected via a hub. However, a mouse works even it is connected to the hub after booting.

I've tested with the 0.01.03.02.02 firmware.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2023, 01:39:21 pm by w.v.s. »
 

Online Protegimus

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Re: Rigol MSO 5000 hardware/software revisions
« Reply #418 on: March 21, 2023, 06:19:57 pm »
Does anyone have any high resolution photo's of the MSO5000 power supply, ideally showing capacitor type & values?

I checked Dave's teardown video and  photo archive https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/albums but didn't spot anything.


Rigol Service Manual MSO5000-E series attached.
Direct download here https://www.rigol.eu/Public/Uploads/uploadfile/files/ftp/%E6%96%B0%E8%B5%84%E6%96%99%E5%BA%93-%E5%90%AB%E6%89%8B%E5%86%8C%E5%9B%BA%E4%BB%B6%E8%BD%AF%E4%BB%B6/%E5%AE%98%E7%BD%91%E8%B5%84%E6%96%99/DS/%E6%89%8B%E5%86%8C/MSO5000-E/EN/MSO5000-E_ServiceGuide_EN.pdf
« Last Edit: March 21, 2023, 06:33:50 pm by Protegimus »
 
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