Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...

[H.O]

If you mean decoding segmented memory then that was fixed a couple of versions back. I don't see it mentioned in the release notes though but those are, as have been said, a bit cryptic.

I used to be on the Mr.Kratz 500MHz firmware image as well but when the bandwidth unlock codes where discovered quite some time ago now I upgraded (to get the fix for the decoders) and applied the option code. The scope then reported itself as a DS4054. The release notes (for 02.02.04.03) mentions a change to that behaviour so I'm curious, does your scope say it's a DS4014 with a 500MHz bandwidth option enabled or does it say it's a DS4054?

[Gunb]

No one said that. All I'm sayi....

Well, I think there's a misunderstanding. My question should be "does it make sense to update to THIS latest release" or wait for the next because some people here mentioned to wait because this special one is crap? That might happen seldom but sometimes it happens.

And yes, I agree with you, there's never ever a bugfree firmware. Some people here in this forum swear by the Agilent / Keysight and take them to skies but my experience in the lab with different Agilents / Keysight scopes show me without surprise that even these scopes have bugs in the trigger unit, problems with saving pictures to a stick etc.

I'm a development engineer for embedded and started in 1981 with an ZX81 during the home computer era, later on studied communication electronics. To my opinion it's absolutely OK if devices with complex firmware / software have bugs, can't be avoided but only reduced to a minimum. More important is a good and reliable support which offers updates to fix the know issues. As long as this is guaranteed everything's fine!

Concerning the DS4000 series I think they are good scopes. It works reliable and does not have more or less bugs than other manufacturers have got, too.

By the way, my very expensive Agilent multimeter 1242 of the first series which I've bought around 2008 is broken meanwhile although I didn't use it very often. Switching it on shows a voltage of approx. -2V and when switching to resistor measurement it is spinning from max to min permanently. I replaced it with a UNI-T for about 80,-€.

So, I'm generally satisfied with the DS4000.

Would appreciate not to spread my address and email to different companies, too much data mining today. The reason, why I asked for the firmware here in the forum first instead of contacting Rigol. It's only my personal opinion, no criticism if others think different.


Have a nice day,
Gunb


When will the forum get decent quotation functionality???

[alank2]

I checked with Rigol tech support and there is still no new version to address the setup load/save bug.....

[mburgin]

I have recently noticed a strange "feature" of my DS4024 (originally I said DS2024 by mistake which caused some confusion.  Oops!) that might be a firmware bug or could just be an issue with my particular scope.

If I look at a signal with a fast edge such as the scope's aux output set to "fast" and I set the scope to its fastest timebase (2ns) I see the waveform jump left about half a division relative to the trigger position marker whenever I "stop" the trace and adjust the horizontal position in any way.  When I "run" again, the trace jumps right about half a division, back to where it should be.

I can also see this jump whenever I move the horizontal position control when the scope is running with a fast timebase setting.  When I move the horizontal control, the trace jumps to the left while it is being moved, but jumps back to the correct position whenever I stop changing the horizontal control.

Since this is a bit difficult to put into words, to be absolutely clear, these are the steps to reproduce the issue:
1. Connect scope's aux output to channel 1 input.
2. Set channel 1 input impedance to 50 ohms
3. Set vertical sensitivity and position so that the waveform is on screen
4. Set timebase to 2ns/div.
5. Adjust trigger level to get stable view of rising edge of the signal
6. Press the "run/stop" button to stop acquisition - the little triangular trigger position marker will be shown correctly aligned with the rising edge of the signal
7. Press the horizontal position control to centre the trigger position - the waveform will now jump to the right by half a division and the trigger position marker will stay in the centre.
8. Press the "run/stop" button to restart - the waveform will jump back to its correct position

Does anyone else see this same quirk?  If so, what firmware version are you running? I have recently updated to firmware version 00.02.02.05.02 and I don't remember seeing this issue before, but it could be that I just haven't noticed it in earlier versions.

Thanks
Mark

[CustomEngineerer]

Mark, by aux output do you mean the trigger out connection on the back of the scope? If so, I think that would explain what you are seeing. Since the trigger out only outputs a signal when it triggers, and you are feeding that back into the input (I am assuming here), and triggering off of that, I would expect to see some funkyness. If you have your scope in Auto mode, if it doesn't receive a trigger event, it auto triggers anyways after a certain amount of time so that it can show something on the screen. When that happens, the trigger output actually sends out a pulse, which then your scope triggers off of. After you have stopped the scope, when you press run again, there is no trigger event until it times out (based on your timebase), and then starts triggering faster off the trigger event it is outputting through the trigger out. Thats why when you first start it, it seems to jump, then jump back. You could verify this by setting the scope trigger to Normal instead of Auto. The screen should show no waveform at all because it doesn't generate an auto trigger, and so never outputs a waveform through the trigger out.

Have you tried hooking your scope up to an actual signal generator and verified this behavior?

[hendorog]

He's talking about the self calibration signal, not the trigger out.

[mburgin]

Yes, exactly!  I meant the signal on the back of the scope that you connect to for self-calibration.  Sorry, I should have been more clear!

Anyone seen this issue or confirm that they DON'T see the issue under the same test conditions?

[mburgin]

... and the connector on that back is put into "fast" mode using the option on page 2 of the "Utility" menu.  It is just a 1.25MHz square wave with very fast rise and fall times.

[CustomEngineerer]

I see. It was the "DS2024" for model number that threw me. I have a DS2072A, and they don't have an aux output on it. A bunch didn't add up, why you would be posting about a DS2000 in a DS4000 thread, what you meant by aux output, the DS2000 series not having a 4 channel model, how you could possibly set the trigger output to "Fast Mode". Though all that would make sense if the model is a DS4024.  My bad

Funny thing, I actually hooked my DS2072A scope up the way I thought you were suggesting this morning before I left for work, and before I saw yours and hendorog's responses, and I did see the exact behavior I described above when connecting the trigger output to the channel 1 input, and setting all the settings the way you listed, except for obviously setting the Aux Output to "Fast Mode".

Meh, I'll count that as a big swing and a miss.

[mburgin]

Oops!!!  Now I understand your confusion.  Of course I should have said that my scope is a DS4024 - I have corrected it now in my original post to hide my shame .

Sorry about that!

For completeness, I have tried connecting my DS4024 to an external signal source and I still see the same waveform jumping problem.  In my case, the strange behaviour is not caused by the self triggering effect that you describe.

Another way that I have discovered to see the same problem is to change the display mode from vectors to dots.  In vector mode the trigger point marker is position perfectly correctly relative to the point on the waveform where it crosses the trigger level, but in dots mode it is offset by about half a division to the left with a 2ns/div timebase setting.

Mark

[rsjsouza]

I see the same in my DS4014. A small skip when performing step 7 above. This also happens if you change the timebase or the amplitude as well.

It surely skips a few steps when updating the display buffer with the acquisition buffer (which happens when the vert/horz controls are activated).

[mburgin]

Thanks for the confirmation, rsjsouza.  At least I now know that my scope isn't broken.

What firmware version do you have?  I am wondering if it is a bug introduced in one of the later firmware versions since I haven't noticed this issue until recently.  I only spotted it soon after I upgraded to version 00.02.02.05.02.  I don't remember seeing it with my previously installed version, 00.01.00.00.07, but I could have just missed it.

I find it to be particularly annoying when I am trying to shift the waveform horizontally to align it to the graticule.  You get it aligned and then, as soon as you stop turning the horizontal position control, it jumps to the right a bit!  So, you turn the control left and the waveform immediately jumps to the left and passed where you want it to be!!!

Hopefully it will be fixed in a new version of the firmware.

Regards
Mark

[rsjsouza]

Mark, I have whatever was the latest they posted - I think 00.02.02.05.02, which is the same as yours.

Some bugs were fixed with this version, but unfortunately others were introduced. Out of these, the one that annoys me the most is the inability to save settings to the USB pendrive.

Another bug that used to be very upsetting was the terribly slow speed to save files to USB pendrives. However, you can easily workaround this if you format the pendrive as FAT16.

These levels of bugs are not yet deal breakers for me, especially after using a dog slow TDS7104 at work...   

[mburgin]

Yes, the save settings bug in 00.02.02.05.02 is a bit of a nuisance.

Does anyone know the logic of the Rigol firmware version numbers.  With 5 different digit pairs they must have a lot of different update severity categories in mind - perhaps minor correction that fixes a typo in a message in the right-most pair of digits, through to major update that adds new features in the second digit pair.  But I wonder what they are saving the leftmost pair of digits for?

Version 01.WW.XX.YY.ZZ would be a major update indeed!

Mark

[hendorog]

Could someone on the latest DS4k firmware please try to replicate this bug:

FFT for channel number x is forced to zero when channel number x-1 is switched to GND coupling

1: Connect a probe to channel 2 and observe some trace
2: Turn on FFT for channel 2 and observe some spectrum
3: Switch Coupling for channel 1 to GND
4: Observe FFT trace for channel 2 is now zero.

[rsjsouza]

FFT for channel number x is forced to zero when channel number x-1 is switched to GND coupling

Yes, that happens here as well. Latest FW.

Also, did you notice that the trigger line on the display disappears? IIRC this happened with me when I closed the FFT mode. To bring it back I had to go to Trigger menu and fiddle with something there.

[ted572]

New DS4000 Firmware, Version 00.02.03.00.03, 3 MB, Released 2016-05-05:

http://int.rigol.com/File/ProductSoftWare/20160505/DS4000(DSP)update.zip

[H.O]

Thanks!
Unfortunately they've apparently went back to not include the change notes etc 

[alank2]

I think they are *supposed* to remove the notes, but sometimes they forget...

[alank2]

I guess I am wrong, here it is online:

http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-05bf/1/-/-/-/-/DS4000%20Firmware%20Release%20Notes.pdf

[mburgin]

Hi

Has anybody tried the new firmware version for the MSO/DS4000 series (00.02.03.00.03)?  Does it fix anything?  Does it break anything?

[alank2]

I just updated to it.  Everything seems fine.  It did fix the setup load/save bug, but the counter is still oversized.

[trukresom]

Hi,
I also updated a few minutes ago. But since then the traces are hidden by a grey empty
window as can be seen on the screenshot below.
Do you think, that a downgrade to the previous version is possible ?

[Hydrawerk]

Did you try to turn the scope off and on and pressing the Clear button?

[alank2]

I'd say a downgrade is likely possible, but try to troubleshoot this first!  If you press the default button does the window go away?

There is a way to reset the settings too by pressing one of the gray buttons repeatedly while turning it on - I can't recall which one, maybe the 5th one down on the left?