Rigol MSO4000 and DS4000. Tests, bugs, firmware, questions, etc...

[pascal_sweden]

What if the pattern does not consist of a basic bit mask pattern, but combines patterns with logic expressions? Or is that not possible in the LA from Rigol?

[BenYL]

The Rigol DS4024 seems like a great deal with the current promotion because it is $2783 for four channels, 350MHz, and digital decoding. Can someone summarize the things about this oscilloscope that are not good? The datasheet and their video are very convincing, certainly a big step up from the Tek TDS2024C at about the same price. But I don't want any surprises.

[rsjsouza]

At this price level there are many options, especially if you consider used equipment on eBay.

For example, this DSOX3024T is slightly cheaper and, if you don't have a personal issue with unlocking features using codes available for free ("hacking"), it is an excellent deal.
Another ones are this DSOX4022A, this DSO7012B or this Wavejet 332A, but only if you don't really need four channels (I am not sure if they can be "hacked").

Apart from these choices, I have a DS4014 and I am very pleased with it. I describe my experience here but I don't do much decoding and therefore don't run into the bugs and lags reported by others. As a four channel scope with very deep memory and good math capabilities (apart from FFT) it works pretty well for my needs. I like the large screen and the menu on its both sides makes the interface cleaner for my taste. The independent channel controls are nice as well as the jog dial to navigate the memory (there is no search capability). I replaced the selection encoder with one with detents to make menu selections easier (earlier in this thread), but that uncovers a firmware glitch reported later in the the linked discussion. I also had to add heatsinks everywhere on the oscilloscope to tame the heat - that was pretty piss poor on Rigol. An annoyance for me is that waveforms are frozen while I change the GND level of a channel - I was told that Keysights and Lecroys don't do that, but I can't confirm. When compared to a Tek TDS3014 that I use at work I can tell the Rigol is light-years more functional and practical.

All in all, check this other thread for additional comments from other users. Keep in mind that some bugs were fixed in more recent firmware releases.

[hendorog]

Hard to add anything to the great comment by rsjsouza.

For me the main limitations are:
* Weak FFT - slow, low number of points, poor UI, text same colour as trace so hard to read. I still find it useful.
* ADC chips running hot. I intend to add heatsinks as well, just haven't got around to it...

Not sure I'd bother reading that other thread though, like many of the Rigol DS4k threads it escalates rapidly
Worth noting that the strongest critic in that thread doesn't own one and only used one briefly.

When I got mine it was a no-brainer as there was nothing else available in 4 channels with the bandwidth and features for the price (via hackability)
There are more options now so it's worth having a good look around.

[Trev4G]

While I would agree with many of the comments already made. My issues come as limitations and irritations( I can live with).

Limitations

See above plus:
The PC software. I am staggered that Rigol can get away with something this mind blowingly awful. My first Rigol, an entry level DS1022CD, had Ultravision s/w while this was pretty limited I assumed my MSO4014 would come with something better. How wrong could I have been. It was so much worse!

Irritations

1) The power switch on the front panel does not switch the power off it just shuts down the software. This leaves the MSO taking enough power to make it warm to the touch. The true power switch is on the back inconvieniently situated under the mains input socket. In practical terms this is unusable so you are left with the wall socket.
2) Fan noise. As usual on a Rigol.
3) No documentation for the pins on the probe sockets.

However, overall I am very happy with my MSO and it certainly does everything I want and has enough features in reserve to meet my likely future requirements.

[kcbrown]

Irritations

...
2) Fan noise. As usual on a Rigol.

While the fan noise can be an irritation, at least Rigol uses very good fans (assuming they're consistent on this).  The DS1054Z apparently comes with the Sunon ME50151V3-000C-A99, which uses magnetic levitation bearings.  These will have a longer life than anything else, all else being equal.

In contrast, my Siglent SDG1025 comes with a crap Chinese fan that started to make groaning noises less than 2 years into its life.  I can't be bothered to send the unit in for fan replacement since they're likely to simply replace it with another crap fan that will exhibit similar behavior after the warranty has expired, and the shipping costs would exceed the price of a good replacement fan.

[rsjsouza]

The PC software. I am staggered that Rigol can get away with something this mind blowingly awful. My first Rigol, an entry level DS1022CD, had Ultravision s/w while this was pretty limited I assumed my MSO4014 would come with something better. How wrong could I have been. It was so much worse!

I agree; the software is not great. The user marmad was creating a software to interact with the DS4000 series. I can't find the thread (nor used it)

1) The power switch on the front panel does not switch the power off it just shuts down the software. This leaves the MSO taking enough power to make it warm to the touch. The true power switch is on the back inconvieniently situated under the mains input socket. In practical terms this is unusable so you are left with the wall socket.

I don't quite like this as well, but unfortunately these days many different brands and models of test gear are doing the same.

Irritations

...
2) Fan noise. As usual on a Rigol.

While the fan noise can be an irritation, at least Rigol uses very good fans (assuming they're consistent on this).  The DS1054Z apparently comes with the Sunon ME50151V3-000C-A99, which uses magnetic levitation bearings.  These will have a longer life than anything else, all else being equal.

In contrast, my Siglent SDG1025 comes with a crap Chinese fan that started to make groaning noises less than 2 years into its life.  I can't be bothered to send the unit in for fan replacement since they're likely to simply replace it with another crap fan that will exhibit similar behavior after the warranty has expired, and the shipping costs would exceed the price of a good replacement fan.

The noise itself does not bother me, but the DS4014 has a Delta fan that has survived well the test of time. I replaced it with a slightly more silent fan (also from Delta) and added rubber bumpers to reduce vibration.

Regardless, the largest part of the noise comes from the air flowing inside the case and not from the fan itself - it is hard to change this.

[Trev4G]

I agree; the software is not great. The user marmad was creating a software to interact with the DS4000 series. I can't find the thread (nor used it)

The Marmad software has two active versions RUU2.03 which runs with the 4000 series but only supports 2 analogue i/p channels. RUU3.06a the alpha test version which I believe supports 4 analogue channels but NOT the 4000 series. Like a number of people I hope that at some point he will either continue development or put his work into the public domain. However, as RUU is supplied free of charge the decision rests with Marmad and I can only applaud him for the work done to date. Personally I think Rigol should give him a large amount of cash in exchange for RUU and complete the work.

The noise itself does not bother me, but the DS4014 has a Delta fan that has survived well the test of time. I replaced it with a slightly more silent fan (also from Delta) and added rubber bumpers to reduce vibration.

Regardless, the largest part of the noise comes from the air flowing inside the case and not from the fan itself - it is hard to change this.

The fans in my Rigols have proved completely reliable.  I will wait until the warranty is up before going inside. In the past I have found that a small movement of a fan inside an instrument can have a dramatic effect on noise level. Its all about reducing turbulence. I don't know if the same trick can be pulled on the Rigol but I may give it a go.

[rsjsouza]

The noise itself does not bother me, but the DS4014 has a Delta fan that has survived well the test of time. I replaced it with a slightly more silent fan (also from Delta) and added rubber bumpers to reduce vibration.

Regardless, the largest part of the noise comes from the air flowing inside the case and not from the fan itself - it is hard to change this.

The fans in my Rigols have proved completely reliable.  I will wait until the warranty is up before going inside. In the past I have found that a small movement of a fan inside an instrument can have a dramatic effect on noise level. Its all about reducing turbulence. I don't know if the same trick can be pulled on the Rigol but I may give it a go.

After I wrote my post earlier this morning I thought the exact same thing you mentioned above; when I replaced the fan I also added quite a number of heatsinks to the oscilloscope (absolutely necessary in my case), which surely increased the turbulence by quite a factor. Despite this, the noise level decreased in a small part due to the fan and (I believe) in greater part because of the rubber bumpers.

[jp_gorman]

Hi Folks,

I have a Rigol MSO4014 which I have not needed to get working on the LAN before, but recently started to see if I could get it working.
I'm having trouble getting DHCP or static IP working from one room via a powerline LAN plug switch upstairs to my internet downstairs (linked to another powerline LAN plug). It says fail on dhcp and reverts to an APIPA (APIPA allocates IP addresses in the private range 169.254.0.1 to 169.254.255.254) - This obviously does not work with my local subnet (192.168.0.0)

Even on static IP the MSO says LAN connected and all good, the green solid and amber lights flash on the network card, but a port scan on the static ip (when testing static ip) on the right subnet show it completely unreachable, as is a ping to that address!

The same cable from my upstairs powerplug router, connected to my laptop works fine with dhcp and static ip from my macbook pro.

Note: direct ethernet connection to my macbook pro from Rigol does work eventually wiah a fixed IP and a lot of plugging and upplugging and "apply" button pressing on the network util screen (really unpretictable, i.e. even whe the scope says the LAN s detected, the macbook pro cannot ping the Rigol).

Just wondered if anyone came across similar issues ?

Thanks - J.

[mhuth]

Mine worked on DHCP right out of the box.  The main disappointment is that in this day and age, it is only a 100Mbs connection.  Taking files and printing screen is actually faster over the USB port.  Saving a full waveform file from multiple channels is time for a dinner break.  And the UltraSigma software seems to crash while updating the full memory.

[nctnico]

The slow speed is probably due to the lack of processing power inside the scope than the limit in the bandwidth. Just check how much data is transferred in how much time and you can calculate the actual transfer speed.

[alank2]

What is the status on unlocking bandwidth/features with the MSO4000 series.  I recall that the riglol worked for the DS4K series, but I can't recall if something different had to be done with the MSO4K.

[dr.diesel]

What is the status on unlocking bandwidth/features with the MSO4000 series.  I recall that the riglol worked for the DS4K series, but I can't recall if something different had to be done with the MSO4K.

Works fine, nothing special as I recall on the MSOs.

[tized]

I can confirm that it works.   

[alank2]

--Is the original i2c thread still available?  I can't find it.
Nevermind - I found it.

[alank2]

So I put in the latest firmware I could get (00.02.03.02.00) and it went fine.  Options stayed.

One issue though I've run into is that the decode 2 can't leave parallel.  Has this always been an issue, or maybe something with this firmware.  I can change decode 1 to other decoders like rs232, spi, etc.

edit: ok - don't know what changed, but decode 2 is now working and can be changed...

[IDEngineer]

So I put in the latest firmware I could get (00.02.03.02.00) and it went fine.

I came here looking for comments regarding the latest DS4000 series firmware. Sounds like it's working well for you. I've downloaded the file, just don't want to rediscover that it has problems. Anyone else have comments regarding what appears to be the latest DS4000 firmware, "DS4_FW_Update_v00_02_03_00_03.zip"?

[alank2]

You might view the GEL file inside that DS4_FW_Update_v00_02_03_00_03.zip - I found it to show 00.02.03.02.00 even thought the zip filename references something earlier.  I also downloaded 00.02.03.02.00 from the main Rigol site and it was a 100% match for the above zip (and it was properly labeled as 00.02.03.02.00).

[rsjsouza]

Funny you mentioned that. I will ask Rigol about the firmware version confusion.

The reason is that the firmware available at the website below advertises itself as 02.03.00.03, which matches with the package name:
http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3

However, the firmware available at the website below advertises itself as 02.03.02.00, although the package indicates it is a much newer version 03.02.02.00. The GEL file inside the .zip matches the date of this release: 2018/07/05.
https://www.rigolna.com/firmware/

At any rate, I just installed this latest firmware. Let's see how it runs. I had the 02.03.00.03 in my DS4000 for several years and it has worked well.